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December 19, 2018 4:30 pm
But we've got two interviews today.
You do not want to miss a minute of the broadcast stage for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.
That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown, did you ever wonder what happens to someone who has sex change surgery when most radical things you could do or have done to yourself, what happens to someone was 16 surgery only to regret it and think, oh no. I made a terrible mistake. We got a guest that will be joining us at the bottom of the hour today who has gone through that very story and knows many others who have as well. But first you ask a very major question. Why is it comes to world changing strategy that the church often seems to be reacting with the world does and often reacting. Sometimes a year too late. Sometimes a generation too late. I would guess to claims that the West, including America is moving towards totalitarianism takeover of even the thoughts that we think in the words that we say is he exaggerating welcome friends to the broadcast Michael Brown delighted to be with you. Here's the recall 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH 784. I'm not going to be taking a lot of time for calls because I will devote maximum time to I guess my first guest is a friend and colleague Tom Gilson, Senior editor with the stream author or editor of a number of books. One of them very important role are all important. One of them critical conversations Christians parents guide to discussing homosexuality with teams.
Yes, such a book exists another. He was the editor of this true reason Christian responses to the challenge of a theater atheism. So Tom Gilson is a thinking man is a strategist.
He has a brand-new article up on the screen will be posting a link for little bit later church wake up an urgent call to action hostility toward Christ and the church is turning totalitarian. Even in America. What can we realistically do a Tom welcome to the broadcast. Thanks so much for joining us today are currently Michael glad to glad to do it so Tom, you are not one of these alarmists type people chicken Little, the skies falling you running around with your hands, drop, and yet you're putting on an urgent call for action could could you paint a picture for us of why things are so urgent. Yeah. Where Robin and Ed actually responded will get into that later on. It might be that they don't know how to respond, but their very tort lightning action going on from the LGBT crowd.
In particular, not just the you can. And think like at the other critical religion kind of action, but it is the kind of thing where people are requiring Christian to putative bodily content or to lose their top businessmen in one. I know of that almost author home and Lisa want to put it really will write this article.
What Virginia small town.
I've been there many times and future learning. Plumbing was fired or are using the wrong pronoun with a transfer and look you out a call this person by the name they want me to call and an object avoid pronouns altogether, but I use the pronoun that I don't think it through and that wasn't good enough to be that the school board book got to do it with trans people want. Or else you're out of your and him and it was fired military and personal, that there's no compromisers, no room for constant or any kind, not just claimant have to do it their way. This kind of thing is on the right of the church to yes all meeting people are being told what language that use it.
The bill passed in Canada that basically makes it national law. So if if Tom now says he's Tammy and I don't refer to Ms. Tammy then referred to him as she, or if Mike is now Michelle you refer to me as such in the New York City get 1/4 million dollar fine aware where if if a man identifies as a woman, he said have a problem with using the woman's bathroom and get it quickly notifying the workplace and and then we have now state after state is passing laws that if you are struggling with same-sex attraction or gender identity confusion and one professional counseling or your 17-year-old with the parent say I want a professional counseling. It is illegal to get help for counseling so that that is totalitarian were not exaggerating saying that I want to be an alarmist one at St. thinking about. I think there is one way to look at the witches for failure but that the world was changed.
We don't want to have changed.
Hallmark movies are getting a lot more play or audience. This Christmastide occurred because people want they would want to be the way they used to be. Can't make them the way they used to be about watching our markers. The world has changed and we have got to wake up to it in your article and friends. If you haven't read it, it's up on the stream church wake up in the article you say Apple is poised to enforce a new morality. What did you say that Tim Cook, CEO of Apple. The good pretty much the Corporation responsibility to enforce it to hold the line on what allowed on their platforms and occur to the leader that other top tech organization going to be listening to his will and basically what they're saying there will you mom lost the word here myself, you've lost the ability to advertise on on to other people had been kicked off of Twitter for no good reason at all and big corporations are saying were charged were deciding which moral that suggest a recent statement by Tim Corkery said you were to come stand for that yet.
So when you hear it all good.
Good. You stand against hate speech. So if some guy is inciting hatred against black Americans were Jewish Americans and and you know that you do not see on your staff and they want to spread propaganda you get you not to let that happen. It sounds good and she realized that in the eyes of these companies we are Nazis. We are the KKK we are the evil one. So here at Apple with their massive platforms would not allow the Manhattan declaration to put their app on on on Apple so you just think that this was something Chuck Colson's organization. Others put together. Many of us involved signing onto the statement, just a good statement about family, morality, life that got banned and yet you can have every kind of perverse sex thing in the hook up with strangers. And that's perfectly fine. You could put out have Christian bashing material that's fine. So we have been designated the haters and therefore have to be silenced and you're getting more and more people, conservators knows they can kick off twitter there. They're getting the platform on Facebook there there can kick off patriotic it so it's pretty much it. You know exist to snuff you out and and even if you have some extreme things that we all reject you, solid conservatives or Christians with good morals they're getting banned so your you're not being an alarmist, but Tom your strategist, your you want because people know you're laid-back you think you you don't just jump into action. Why is it that the church seems to be a step behind in strategy will I don't think we think strategically. Oh it's tragic because if we good there. I think that they go to be. Another aggressive movement is being but all group of people they are well-positioned to have considerable power in terms of like in the country. But when you consider the church what we we have got ridiculous like after the Crown's organization called church yet billions of people everywhere, and if we thought strategically if we thought that we could do something real like what we could do nothing could stand get your Christ at the gates of hell will not stand against the church all the churches gotta be moving those gates in order to get even be bothered by what happened were not were not deploying or not equipping you might be and I'm sure it is a great extent, but were not totally not totally sold out were not totally sold out to doing the radical biblical but even beyond added that we don't know what we would do if we were going to yet so supportive it is. We we been producing consumers rather than disciples so people just have the mentality of make my life bigger and better and easier.
That's what church is rather rather than equipping an army of disciples to go out sacrificially as world changes, so we we we reap the negative fruit of that, but then yet again. A lot of times it's kind of paralyzed like well I do what I will attack us. It's a bigot so massive and yet as you said, we have just existing enough to do anything. Is there the biggest grass roots movement in America anyway.
But it is not people going to a football game or people go to the movies orbit it it's it's people gathering to worship the Lord.
So we we have the grassroots people so well on a break this down again. Friends go to the stream of mobile post. The link assumes that the shows over again. The article by Tom Gilson church wake up an urgent call to action just got about a minute before the first break but will break down some of the strategies when we start what we do.
First, there will an attitude, we need to have in mind is that the revolution work. Now, with a long time and come back to 1919 69 the big document can identify now go back 1987 when the Bible what they were going to do.
It's been a 30 year Protestant Bennett flow and need to take a slow, long look at what we can do over the decades to.
That's the way were going to make change. If we if we really taken him to do that so we have to think long term. If I mentality as well. Right here any minute is Jesus is coming in a second chance when I can have good strategy for kids or grandkids right so friends will be right back with Tom Gilson to break down some of the strategies, but how about starting with let's wake up to reality. We pray for everyone.
We want to see LGBT people come to the Lord, their friends, neighbors, coworkers, family members, with time on the gender though it's gonna undermine our most foundational liberties first thing wake up. Second thing, think about a lasting strategy and not just reaction to the moment will be right back. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 8663 here again is Dr. Michael Brown back friends to the line of fire Michael Brown so glad to have this time with my friend and colleague Tom Gilson.
I just tweeted out a link to his article church wake up urgent call to action that will posted on her Facebook page. Immediately after the show.
So again we need to wake up to. We need to wake up to increasing totalitarianism coming our way where our most fundamental liberties are being challenged undermine that they have been for for some years now. It's only intensify and Tom went when God called me in 2004 to begin to get involved with LGBT issues that the keyword wasn't even a big issue then. Especially with with that gay activism in the began to break my heart to reach out to the people with love, I asked my civil why me was God calling me to get involved with this Jewish minister, that makes sense of Jewish and got the education and other things you know that are part of my background, but I come out of homosexuality.
I never had a particular burden to minister to those that struggle with same-sex attraction or sexual brokenness.
In general, my PhD is the Semitic languages not in psychology or I thought, why me. Then I realized this is this is the big issue that this generation can face and it's basically a matter of of of everybody. We need everybody you know all all hands with everybody's got to get involved so this is been one of these unavoidable things. It's not that we went looking for this. You got a million other things in ministry important to you in dealing with atheists and college campuses and all this, and yet you are in the think of this as well. So this is unavoidable and that's why he wrote a book addressing teens as well and where are under pressure. This is where we do not meet your cracker not.
And let people in general. It did after Mongo you can keep that patient. Active air combat correcting on everyone, including my got I'm not talking about when I went when I have this alarm, but there are some who are pushing in and their effect is that they are making it appear that Christianity all along and people know that when you think young people be fighting whether they're going to commit your life to Christ. The question is to be do I want to do this is true and now the question more than ever before wanted to do.
I want to be part of the bigoted group that presented to me. I am so we have got answered that question. Configure the question but again but now to it. It's extended that's where they're telling us what we have to do other. We want to on it to carry your taking a real strategic approach when you and that you think of this as being an important issue. Churches of Ghana think strategically I a pastor almost yesterday who'd recently talked to George Barna and he's a miniature pet mega-church pastor for years and he's met Barney sit on your the guy don't like you. Most of these negative poles and things of course Barna had called pastors and found that like 90% of American pastors had said that the they didn't address the controversial issues and when he asked why civil fear of losing people fear losing influence fear of losing finances so Barney expected when he when he asked them a question again. That's what he would get but he told us pastor. Those speak with yesterday pastor Mike Hayes. He said when I find the principal reason is not speaking out because they don't know what to say and and I can understand it.
On the one hand, this was all new to me to get into these issues in and dig deep into the social things and begin to confront the minute many things I want to do rather than that see rabbits pastor there there up to their neck ready in its counselor a couple that what is on the edge of divorce and and in working with teens and youth you getting a strong youth pastor and balancing the budget and paying the bills and and all this but the fact is there are plenty of resources and that's what pastor Hayes was saying there plenty of resources so that you will have to do it all yourself. Let's pull together work together educate together so you say the first and the second thing we need to do.
The strategy is tell the whole truth what you mean here, hold true. But the congregation know that the applicant let them know that were at risk. I think our current rather implement empty culture that pointer back girl I like live tell the whole truth right away.
The early church that that the church father baited start, not a bad thing. I'm on but couple God is still God took a little because God is calling God know, old guy. Jesus Christ braved a good pervert for all time includes unique book, but we go, responsibility in Christ.
You call people believed take action, we can move forward with hope and with joy but with government forward and so we we we preach with a sense of face and it was urgency that people understand what is happening to wake up. Not the sense of fear and panic.
But in a sense of we better do something or this can be a accountability coupon office of the ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that at least four children and I'm mentioning this on on the air yesterday as well that I've been interacting with with someone known her pretty much her whole life for most of her life and she's she's now got a daughter.
She and her husband euros 15 as not at home with her body and being female and am also identifies mailing and she's in school were very liberal school and that the parents met with the counselor and they said all you were about to notify the entire school to call her by mail names and buzzing. What were the parents here.
She's a confused young lady. She has other issues.
The school is ready to run with this and in many cases the school run with it and the parent doesn't even know that Jane that you sent from the house. Is Joe at school and call he by the teachers. You know this is that's where at. Therefore, we sound the alarm so we we tell the whole truth.
We let people know what's happening we do it in faith.
We tell the truth about God. What else do we do it out quicker that we are going to come under pressure come about.
McGregor personally wrote what we need a reminder that you hear no God, no matter he was born on Christmas the garden. Goodbye to you again leaning the prayer list for him to complete his entire truth. All of inner pressure. Come on me. I will live for Christ. I will start by I am staying with. He is the greatest man of all God in the flesh, died for me. I am never going to back down from my belief in him, and pastors. I think we need to be preparing our people at some point, I don't office one year to year 10 years.
I think that we need to prepare people to make that stand because some of us are going to have to do it and I don't know which one are you know what when I hear you saying is church make disciples.
This is just being a normal disciple. I was just in India for my 25th time earlier in the month Tom and every year participate in water baptism is there that the ministry does.
And my friend that does the water baptism Police Department who's been stoned and has had some of his pastors, martyrs need to water baptism.
So this is entry-level after they asked our confession of faith. They then say he asked them.
Are you willing to follow Jesus to your last breath to the last drop of blood and they say yes very soberly because they understand it. That's reality, then they may be kicked out of the family that they may get persecuted physically has maybe burned out. They may get killed. That's the gospel record program reminder we have lived in an abnormal. I'm aware of the Latin 300 year, maybe longer. And when when Christianity wasn't awake that it would be work in the world greatest abnormal work returning to normal, but we need to live according to what Jesus taught all of you, and you asked, as you sit atomic to trigger something in the him even write about it. America has a lot of Christian roots and its founding of Chris Miller perfectly Christian country.
A lot of a lot of gospel biblical principles in our founding and there was a strong Christian influence in our nation because that strong Christian influence that there was, not the level of persecution that you normally have because it was such a strong Christian basin, and even with all the founders not really Christians.
They they had a appreciation for Christianity or for the Bible.
That's why the northern states outlawed slavery. That's Wesley result may abolish. This is the fruit of of Christian roots.
But what's happened is as we prospered more as we become more complacent, more diverse, the reason we don't have persecution now is not the most bizarre Christian roots, but because of her worldliness and complacency that was almost like the world will get persecuted but if we stand up and do what's right and honor the Lord and act ethically these days, there will be opposition and to not prepare is to be negligent as a shepherd right pastor believe in prayer we need.
Quicker people with answers and recognize you are worried that they don't have what whipping bacon victim. There are resources in one of those resources often at the member of your church that God & perchance petite and if you And your church is oriented towards apologetics court or a few ethical issues get to know don't that that would never take to build the confidence you get that person equipped and unleashed to do that or your people because your people. It doesn't have to be the pastor yeah absolutely so and their other people they want to do the research they want to be in front of the abortion clinic or they want to be reaching out here or businessman wants to make a difference. So friends read the article lays out six basic strategies church wake up in urgent call to action itself on the stream and this is this is just the beginning. Obviously Tom and I have been working these areas for many years now, it's at the point now with the alarm.
These sounded more clearly more loudly more strenuously with practical steps function takes a Tom. Keep up the great work you will continue this conversation for joining us today?
All right, we come back to full speak with a man who had sex change surgery and regretted it. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown here all the time you see it all the time is everywhere. How wonderful it is one people have sex change surgery and relief they find, and how they're living a fulfilled and great life now. It was terrible before and I'm sure that that is a story of some they will say Willow suicidal before and and now my life is so much better and I'm a well-adjusted person. Now I'm not denying those stories. What I am saying is you only hear those stories and you don't hear a ton of other stories to tell you all actually there plenty P. 516 surgery that are just a suicidal after his before and there plenty of people actually experience what's called sex change regret.
So we have the opportunity now to speak to a courageous man walk higher.
He had sex change surgery. He quote became a woman he lived as a woman, only to realize that he did not treat the root of his problems. How do you transition back after that we do and are there other people like him experiencing sex change regret. Walt has been you may have seen him on the news all kinds of secular news you may have read his articles have gone viral. One of them is even used to debriefing it in the White House to discuss Ms. issues his newest book, trans life survivors so wall it is such a joy to have you back on the year 74 years old. Still going strong for the cost. Thanks so much for joining us in meeting Monday.
I'm yet it is very important so first people you don't know your story just in insurer because I want to devote time to talk about the others that have gone through things like you. Did you really feel when when you thought you had to be a woman.
And here you are married children when every situation is did you feel that you had to do it that you had. It was that you lose your mind and and this was the thing that was going to bring you homeless yet great question yet, but the real problem. Dr. Brown there was no one there that had a different glory that you could bring into the conversation.
It was just one line of thinking and I'm trying to bring second track of thinking into this to help people understand that the consequences of doing this are often quite disastrous and stolen. When I transitioned had the surgery and filled with 35 years ago there wasn't any other and that's what inspired me not only through my relationship with Christ. But just in my relationship with people in working to help them. There has to be voices like mine that can read them. Actual common sense and understanding of the business. What I wrote the book trans five survivors.
So when you say there were other voices. You do have to speak to lease one medical professional, correct, right, and close the propose the process that you went through before they said go ahead and have sex change surgery was, you know, I was quite a blinded time and I went to what was thought to be the greatest specialist in the United States all walk who had his office on Union Street and he was actually the original author. The chairperson that built the Harry Benjamin international standards of care that was used for many years that actually morph into what we have today called W packed so he was the bigger root think the guy who how to diagnose and who was appropriate for surgery and was gonna benefit from it and who wasn't.
He was the guy. So I went to this guy and he diagnosed me and he was wrong and that's what's happening today. They really don't know who transgender start because there's no way to test objectively as to find out if they're going to benefit from the surgery and that that's why I call it in the book, the grand experiment is is quite an experiment to your you're talking about certain things that are irreparable certain things and scar your change you for life is not just yellow Gauss and I want to see what my hair would look like this color or something like that or guy singing on change my my wardrobe is on some very, very radical, so humble just to be clear on this. I saw I'm just playing the devils advocate here that there is a scientific diagnosis. It's called gender dysphoria. It's it's on the books, you know that the diagnostic diagnostic and statistical manual of the latest addition is it's a known condition and a qualified medical professional psychologist, psychiatrist from the person would be can meet with you and give you and and and a diagnosis just as certainly as they could tell someone you have bone cancer or just as certainly as they could tell someone you have the flu. They can tell you you have gender dysphoria and its scientific and it's tangible and it's testable. What's wrong with that way of thinking, well probably not true's. There is no objective testing that can be done. They use the term persistent consistent and inconsistent, the person is making that claim that there persistent and business inconsistent in wanting to change genders well acted interesting way to diagnose something when persistent in business and consistent also applies to obsessive-compulsive disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and depression so that it doesn't and of itself prove that the person has gender dysphoria is just a term used so that people can say well we made a diagnosis but Dr. Brown everybody who is diagnosed with gender dysphoria health diagnoses, and the clinician who agrees with them.
Just as a cheerleader for them in their own personal diagnosis of the need for clinicians actually themselves don't make a dime diagnosed they listen to the person saying I want to change genders that in itself is enough diagnosed them with gender so so that they say that they're sitting there was with the person or office. They asked a bunch of questions based on the person's responses to those questions.
They then come up with a diagnosis would pretty much be like a doctor tell you have a medical condition based on you saying how you feel without actually testing with actually doing the blood test or doing an x-ray. My arm really feels broken.okay, let's touch it, not on though I'm just telling you how I feel like a touch it, he's gonna and then there's an x-ray it so that's what's not happening. Obviously that's the objective part quite what about when someone says but Mike is three years old three years old, my, my boys, my fourth boy and he is acting like a girl almost play with girls things and so on. Shirley is not making something of this is not some political activists here obviously hear this all the time from parents what you tell them well. I think it important to understand that were conflating a young person. I about gender and gender stereotypes with gender dysphoria.
Just because the young boy one girl does not make him want it. That is someone who wants to be a girl or have gender dysphoria is just curiosity. What we know is if we leave young children alone and allow them to develop naturally without cross-dressing them, giving them hormone blockers that up to 93% of them will grow out of this desire to play or behave or act in a different gender role. By the time they reach adulthood so that the fact that were giving them hormone blockers and encouraging affirming them and telling and select the gender of their choice were doing as much too early in their life because they are completely ill-equipped to understand what the consequences of their decisions and to be down the road when their 2535 exactly so in the book trans life survivors. You have 30 survivors tell their story. So what are these people that although a sex change surgery or go part way with hormones what stories are in this book will I run into the book of I several hundred people contact me at home together about 30 stories that have been who went part of the way we stopped before they went to the surgery and hormone, but many of them had the full range of hormone therapy and surgical operation and explain to the reader what the consequences were.
This is a word that is just not used enough in this discussion about transgender identity consequences are absolutely devastating, and the fact that we were leaving this out of the discussion it in my view is what's costing many more lives to be lost because we know now that there 19 times more likely to attempt suicide as a result of identifying is a transgender person because it's so unnatural and so foreign to them to try to adopt to a role that was not their body in psychology and so forth is not designed to assume so. In other words, what we hear is, no, no, that's before 16 surgery because they were struggling and they were suicidal they knew they were trapped in the wrong body and after 16 surgery. That number goes away your sin is not the case that there was a study done in the UK by one hospital who studied under different universities and other studies around the world and they said that people are traumatized to the point of suicide after sex change reassignment gender affirming surgery afterward so so now that the uncle had.
I yet so they even went on to say that the headline of the story was sex change surgery are ineffective in dealing with the underlying problem that they that they have that are causing them to have the desire to change. And that's that's your whole message in your own experience, it is to look for underlying causes not to deny that some struggling not to say hello. This is wrong with you because you're making this up.
No luck. I can you listen to this.
I can imagine I try to but how cannot I am a normal heterosexual guy at home being a male, so I try to figure like I can relate to it.
You lived it so you're saying I have tremendous compassion on people struggling but get to the root cause because the root causes.
Not that there trapped in the wrong body root causes bipolar disorders by the dysmorphia or extensive compulsive dissociative this so there were separation anxiety or severe depression, like maybe in many cases that I see that her people right manager in the book they were sexually abused and this is the response being actually abused as a young child in sackcloth will even hearing now is some kids with autism are thinking that they gender dysphoria and are €15, driving a restroom for something like this and this is UK also some teaches us and what will what's happening here is a struggling other heirs or I will be right back with wall high. The book trans life survivors. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks friends for joining us. My guess higher HEYER's new book, trans life survivors tells the story of 30 people that went through different aspects of 16 surgery or hormone treatment, but lived as the sex opposite to their body and lived to tell the story of their regret. Its importance are important.
Hear the stories and get them out of wall before we go at any any further.
Two quick questions for what would you recommend what book of yours. What website would you recommend that I give to the parents, his 15-year-old daughter is struggling with these very things they think there some other issues in her life. Some other you know things going on. But what would you recommend either for them to read. Or maybe that she would even read herself with this book be helpful, but a lot of very good information about children and agreed to make sure that it addressed those issues so I think this is an excellent book as a resource and it also gives the consequences with many of the books don't do so I would highly recommend them trans by survivors as a tool for read and understand and then a website to go to someone someone that's listening, watching right now, and there struggling in their own lives or that they have a friend or family member and and maybe too embarrassed to talk about which hey let's let's get help this come out with get help will be good website to go to or the best of your sites to go to regret.com and get stories in their resource management has a place where you can whether anyone might and so yeah thank change regret that comment by been up to 10 years, how often to hear from people walk that say I I had 16 surgery and I regret it. How is it like once a year you hear from some how often right now there are times when I get letter to day and there are times when I get maybe one look to meet but that's at least one or two week and more and more. The more that they advocate people to change genders. The more people I see, saying they have regrettable outcomes from and they contact me and say how do I need transition that the term going back to the transmission.
How do I get my body back and this is late so credit and just to put this in context, it's not like everyone that's had 16 surgery even knows this website exist. So maybe 1/1100 10,000, even those the website exists and get your hearing from several a week, or sometimes a couple of the same day am and that that just tells us this is just the tip of the iceberg give us the story from trans life survivors your stories been told, you told on a radio show and many other settings at end and only you and your wife know the pressure that you get for this and in the opposition that you get for this of standing tall standing strong all this time. We applaud that wall we we bless you and stand with you, tells a story from someone else in the book trans life survivors who file yelling and Toronto, Canada lived a life gender activist is gendered work, so as to avoid coming to suicide. The only into the swift and absolute gendered affirmation always affirming how boot transitioned from female to male was well known and well respected. Even became a leader in the trans community in Canada valued median and a mentor to the other trans standards in the editing not only a role model as a trans man, how coordinated and educated the training and research efforts or community 519 Toronto center in 2012, Kyle committed suicide note though the idea that they commit suicide because they're not supported and earned right complete the window for this person was actually the leader of the community had been