Billy Graham’s Warning to the Religious Right

The following program is recorded content created by Truth Network. Your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Hey friends, welcome back to The Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be live with you. Okay, I've got to get a few things out right from the start.

We are audio only, and with a phone connection as opposed to our normal high quality studio connection. The reasons being, I got COVID again, really minor. I just thought it was it was a call to actually a pretty minor call. A mild cold. We decided because we're having a family gathering to take a test. Two tests actually came out positive. So I still have to quarantine for a little while for several more days. So that's why I'm broadcasting from home rather than from the studio.

And even though we have our remote equipment with us, we had a glitch setting it up. So my apologies that you can't see the smiling face, but know that I'm smiling, full of life. I didn't post anything about COVID because it is super minor. And by God's grace, no issues.

The only fever I had was very minor, barely over 100. And haven't had that for several days. So in any case, in any case, thank God for health, strength, grace, quick recovery. But we are not at our normal, super high quality.

My apologies for that. But we're live, phone lines are open, and we're going to have a really interesting broadcast today. Here's number to call 866-34-TRUTH 86634 87884. I first want to ask you a question. All right. I did a Twitter poll on this. The poll is still going.

It's got three hours left got over 1000 responses thus far. But here's my question for you. All right.

Are you ready? Do you believe that God has a special covenant with America because of our founding? Or does he look at our country like every other nation? Or is it somewhere in between these two options? All right. So that's my question.

Let me let me give it to you again. And here's number to call with your opinion 866-34-TRUTH. Do you believe that God has a special covenant with America because of our founding?

The Mayflower compact, various things from the pilgrims and some of our key founding fathers? Do you believe that God has a special covenant with America because of our founding or does he look at our country like every other country, we're just part of the world. He looks at us like he looks at of China, like he looks at Mexico, like he looks at Russia, maybe he looks at Israel differently. You could say, okay, there's a history and covenant there and greater responsibility, but put that aside. Does God look at us like all the other nations, like empires before Rome, Greece, now we're a superpower? Or was there a special covenant made with us, or is it somewhere in between? No, America doesn't have a covenant with God like Israel had a covenant with God.

However, because there's so much Christian thinking in our founding and so much quoting from the Bible in our founding, that we have a greater responsibility or a greater blessing, what's your take? 866-348-7884. Now, later in the broadcast, if you have just a general question you want to ask me, Bible, theology, culture, anything you've wanted to ask and you can call in Friday, give us a call. I'll try to take some random calls later in the show.

866-342. Okay, my new book, The Political Seduction of the Church, is about to come out. It is barely a month away from being published.

The Political Seduction of the Church, How Millions of Americans Have Confused Politics with the Gospel. We announced the book via email yesterday for pre-order, so if you would like to pre-order a signed, numbered copy, so we do this only with the first printing, so it's kind of a collector's item, the first few hundred orders that come in, that's it. So if you'd like to get a signed, numbered copy, go to our website, AskDrBrown, AskDrBrown.org, right there on the homepage you'll see the information on the book. It is a fascinating read, it is an eye-opening read, it is a challenging read, it is a book that will get some people upset with me and others shouting Amen at last.

Someone is saying what I feel. Either way, I believe it's an important book. I didn't write it to gain popularity, I didn't write it so that people would come praising me and following me.

Quite the contrary, I know that some people will be upset with me for it, but I had to speak the truth in love. Let me go through the contents of the book with you so you can know where I'm going with this, all right? So let me just pull up here to the contents of the book, and I'm going to tell you what's in the chapters. It starts off, chapter 1, when evangelical Christians were blamed for the storming of the Capitol. Chapter 2, the church of Jesus is transcendent. I felt it was important, right at the beginning of the book, to give a vision of what the church is called to be, of who we are in the Lord, of how we transcend the things of this world. We're in this world, but in Jesus we are so transcendent to worldly methods. Then, chapter 3, God, guns, and our great white country? Not so fast.

I deal with some of the caricatures, some of the stereotypes, some of the false narrative that is being put out. Then chapter 4, the subtlety of seduction. I once heard Derek Prince say, the problem with deception is that it's so deceiving.

And I don't think that quote was original to him, I think many others have said it as well. Well, the problem with seduction is that it's so seducing. If it was obvious, people wouldn't get destroyed the same way.

If it was so obvious, people wouldn't get pulled in so easily. Then, chapter 5, how Donald Trump went from president to superhero to political savior. Chapter 6, when even prayer became partisan. Chapter 7, when the prophets prophesied falsely. Yes, we talk about it, we lay it out, we name names. Chapter 8, the genesis of false prophecy.

How is it that so many people got off? Among them, some fine Christian leaders. Chapter 9, enter Q anon, how this only added fuel to the fire and added to the confusion. Then chapter 10, the fatal error of wrapping the gospel in the American flag.

Oh, we're gonna be talking about this a lot in the days to come, with the 2022 elections looming near. Then, chapter 11, why politics and religion make for a toxic mix. I'm gonna share some of that chapter with you today. Chapter 12, is the church called to take over society?

Mmm. Chapter 13, Christian nationalism, the coming civil war, and the call to take up arms. Chapter 14, how we failed the test, retracing our steps and learning the big lessons. Let me share with you a quote from Billy Graham that I think you'll find really, really interesting. All right?

Billy Graham said this, February 1981, he's being interviewed for Parade magazine, and he's being asked about Reverend Jerry Falwell, the leader of the Moral Majority. All right? I'm gonna take your calls shortly, so you can get on the line and get on hold, and we'll get to your calls, your comments. I really want to hear from as many of you as I can. Does God have a special covenant with America?

Does he see us like every other nation? All right. This is Reverend Billy Graham. This is 1981, secular magazine. I believe Parade was secular magazine, and he's asked about Reverend Jerry Falwell, leader of the Moral Majority. Here's what Dr. Graham said.

Are you ready? I told him to preach the gospel. That's our calling. I want to preserve the purity of the gospel and the freedom of religion in America. I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. Liberals organized in the 60s, and conservatives certainly have a right to organize in the 80s, but it would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right.

The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. So that was Dr. Graham's concern, that there would be, quote, a wedding between religious fundamentalists and the political right. So do we get involved in politics? Yes. Should we be married to politics?

No. That's where the problem arises. And with all the good that the Moral Majority did, you could say that there was another side to it that produced a negative fallout for the gospel and the unhealthy union of Christian religious leaders with the political right. Now, on the left, that union had already been there.

All right, let's be candid. Liberal Christians, the religious left, they're in bed with the Democrats for years. In fact, it was no big deal. You didn't really hear anything about it when a Democrat politician would speak at a liberal church. No big deal. But if a conservative politician spoke at a conservative church, oh, separation of church and state, what are you doing? Here, here's the perfect illustration.

Are you ready? Think of this. When Pat Robertson and Jesse Jackson both ran for president the same year, if you remember, those of you are old enough to remember, Pat Robertson officially was unordained. He dropped his ordination so it would not get in the way of his political run, or he would not be known as Reverend Pat Robertson running for office.

There'd be no accusation of separation of church and state. Whatever his motivations were, he dropped his ordination. So he was simply Pat Robertson. And of course, he was running as a conservative Republican. On the other side, Jesse Jackson was running as a liberal Democrat. And how did we know him?

The Reverend Jesse Jackson. Isn't that fascinating? All right, so the union between the religious left and the Democrat Party, that was deep. That was already there.

What Reverend Graham saw was the potential of the religious right joining with the political right in an unhealthy way. A wedding, as he said. All right, we've got a lot more to say about this, friends. We're gonna get your calls on the other side of the break. Stay right here. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown, delighted to be back with you just under the weather for a couple of days, but feeling great. Just need to be broadcasting remotely until I get out of a little quarantine.

Yeah, I got hit with COVID again, thankfully, a super minor, and wouldn't have even known I had it, wouldn't have really thought I had it, if not for the fact that I normally don't get colds at all, and if I get them, they're normally, excuse me, gone within two or three days, and when it's the fourth day, it's like, hmm, something's a little funny here, but for those who are really struggling with COVID or other sickness, grace and healing to you. Okay, here's the number to call, 866-34-TRUTH. I'm going to the phones momentarily with the question of, a very simple question, how does God look in America? Does he look at us like every other country in the world, we're just another country in the world, so you have believers, the church within America, but then you just got the nation as a whole, it's like every other nation needs to be saved, or does God have a special covenant with America that's unique? And he looks at us as a Christian nation.

866-34-TRUTH. Martin Luther King said this, there was a time when the church was very powerful, and the time when the early Christians rejoiced at being deemed worthy to suffer for what they believed. In those days, the church was not merely a thermometer that recorded the ideas and principles of popular opinion, it was a thermostat that transformed the mores of society. He also said this, one of my favorite King quotes, the church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state. It must be the guide and the critic of the state and never its tool.

If the church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority. Of course, I have those quotes in my new book, The Political Seduction of the Church, you can pre-order your signed number copy at our website, AskDrBrown.org. Okay, let's take some calls and see what you're thinking about this.

We start with Nancy in Virginia. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Thanks so much for calling. Are you there? Hello, yes.

Hey, Nancy, welcome to the Line of Fire. Well, thank you very much. It's great listening to you today.

Hope you feel better soon. Yes, thanks. I called in, I'm sorry, I called in because of your question, does America have a special covenant with the Lord? And personally, I think the word tells us that Israel is the country that God made a covenant with.

And as far as America, God blesses those who blessed Israel. Also, God puts in place the kings and the rulers, and I do believe that the presidents that are in place are appointed by God. I do believe, according to his word, that nothing will change prophecy. God does not change his mind about the word and the prophecy that he has given us.

So whatever president we have is appointed by God to perform the sovereign, just like he raised up kings and brought down kings in the past, same with presidents, even though we vote, God is sovereign, and the one nation he had a special covenant with was Israel. All clear. Hey, thank you for weighing in, Nancy, I appreciate that.

Thank you. All right, let's go over to Winston Salem, North Carolina, to Mo. Mo, welcome to the Line of Fire. All right, Mo is gone.

Instead, let's go over to Iowa. Ian, welcome to the Line of Fire. All right, are you there, sir? Ian, are you there? Yes, sir, I can hear you.

Okay, go ahead, please. Yeah, and you know, probably your comment and everything about what the lady was talking about previously as well, where it's like, you know, it's like, yeah, we see in Scripture that Israel is the only one that has a special covenant. I do think we can, you know, argue for that God has, you know, maybe specially purposed America to bring about his purposes as far as the freedom and those ideas, and in some ways God has also providentially orchestrated the founding and everything else in some ways. And I think there's a book that actually rather aptly argues that by Michael Medved called The American Miracle, and so it's, you know, just to me, I kind of, you know, sit in the more of the middle where it's like, yeah, there is, you can see evidence of God's special hand on America, but I don't think he, it's some sort of special covenant in that regard. To me, that'd be good.

Got it. All right, so the middle ground would say that God does have a purpose for America. Michael Medved in his book does argue that if you look at the exceptionalism of America, with all of our flaws and faults, the world impact that America had in a relatively short period of time, and the influence America continues to have and how America was used in the spreading of the gospel as well, the point that others would make, and then you look at our founding, God has a purpose in America perhaps different than Mexico or Canada or Russia or China. However, it is not that he chose us out as a covenant nation like he chose out Israel, and by the way, if I had to lean in one way in answering the poll, I would answer in that middle ground way as well.

For sure, we are just like any other nation as far as being people of the world who need saving. For sure, we are not a covenant nation like Israel, but there does seem to be something in our history and founding where God's purposes for us have been distinct, for better or worse. So how does God look at us then? In other words, when he looks at America as a Holian, are we all accountable to God because of the way the founders founded things, or in that sense are we just like every other nation? Well, I would say that we're more just like every other nation, and in some ways including Israel, because I think we can argue scripturally that it was, you know, the nation as a whole, but it was most of the individuals in the nation as a whole that were responsible to God to do His, you know, His purposes for the individuals as well as for the nation. And same with us, you know, since that is given, so I think it's arguable that God has purposed the U.S. in a particular way, that not only, you know, the country as a whole responsible for that purpose, but also the individuals in it. Are we, as an individual, aligned with Him and doing, you know, His purpose and trying to accomplish His purpose?

Yeah, absolutely. And that's all we can deal with ultimately, individual response to God, and no matter where we sit on this issue, the fact is to whom much is given, much is required, so America's had so much given to it that much is required of America, even without us being a special covenant nation. Hey Ian, thank you for weighing in, I appreciate it. I'm gonna grab another call, and then I want to unpack some of what Reverend Graham was concerned about, and some of the reason that I wrote the political seduction of the Church, and I'll be absolutely candid with you friends, I want to talk about my own journey as well. So let's grab one more call now, let's go to Yukon, Oklahoma. Ryan, welcome to the line of fire, thanks for joining us today.

Hi Dr. Brown, I wanted to answer the question, I believe some of the other callers have gotten to it. I would say yes, he does have a covenant, obviously different than Israel, Israel's covenant was included in Scripture as a record. I would say that specifically, the covenant or work that God started with America doesn't start in 1776, although that's part of it, but rather back to the first settlers, Christian settlers, for example, Massachusetts folks that were wanting, in a missionary sense, to have a land where they could worship God according to the Bible, without restrictions from the government, and I believe that God honored that, and I don't believe there's any accident that we have become the greatest nation on the face of the earth because of that.

So, but I also wanted to say one other thing, and I want to get your thoughts, and it has to do with that. You had mentioned the phenomenon called the liberal Christian that aligns itself with the Democrat Party, and I say this with a pure heart, I do not believe that there is a wholesale group of people that are liberal Christians. I would say that if you are governed by the Word of God, that if you are seeking God with a sincere heart, no matter how imperfect or flawed we are, that we would draw near to God's truth through Jesus Christ, through his word, and we would end up not being liberal. For example, we would end up not supporting the Democrat Party, we would end up not supporting gay rights, abortion, and all the rest of it, and so if there is a movement called liberal progressive Christianity, I believe it is a counterfeit, although there could be people in it that are saved but have not yet become sanctified, as it were, and drawing near to Christ. Yes, so let me just jump in to respond, just while we have time. So overall, in terms of what you're saying, yeah, when I speak of liberal Christians, many of them deny the authority of Scripture, many of them deny the resurrection of Jesus, many of them are pluralistic, that there are many different ways to salvation outside of Jesus, so in many ways they would be completely disqualified as being Christians, no argument about that, and for sure there are others who would be compromised in their ethics and values, and do need to draw closer to the Lord in sanctification.

The problem would be if we don't see blind spots in conservative Christianity that may be more orthodox in doctrine, but may de-emphasize other things that the Lord does emphasize. That's what's really important, that we all look for our own blind spots. Hey, I appreciate the call, and your perspective as well. You will be right back. I've got some important perspectives to bring on the other side of the screen. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us friends on the Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be back live with you, and thrilled to be, well, eager to be back in the physical studio, but since I got hit with COVID again, very minor case, I just stepped to quarantine a few more days, so we'll be broadcasting from our home studio.

866-34-TRUTH is the number to call, and if you have just a random question you've been wanting to ask, a little later in the show I'll try to get to some other questions as well. Hey, have you signed up for the Israel trip? Yeah, it's gonna be spectacular, God willing. May of 2023. Yeah, we were previously planning on going in May of 2020. You know what happened with that? COVID.

Yeah, big time. Postpone the trip, postpone the trip, postpone the trip. We finally said, okay, we're just canceled because we keep coming up with new dates and new plans, and so we are thrilled to be able to go back, but the seating is limited.

We only have so many people with us, so if you want to go, now's a great time to get your deposit in, and this way we can see exactly how many folks will be taking with us, but all that info is on our website AskDrBrown.org. Okay, I am gonna speak to you friend-to-friend the way I do it here on radio, all right? I'm just gonna be as honest and transparent as I can as we talk about my new book, The Political Seduction of the Church. Friends, it is so urgent that we see what happened, that we learn from our mistakes. Those of you who didn't make mistakes, then you're saying, hey, come on, let's all get it right here. Those who made the mistakes, let's learn and do better, especially ministers, pastors, leaders, with the influence that we have. I'm just gonna share my heart with you.

I'm gonna be totally open, honest with you. So I started preaching at the age of 18 in 1973. I did not go on live talk radio until 2008. I had done limited radio to local broadcasts with pre-recorded teaching and things like that for a period of time, and of course had been a guest on many, many shows, but did not have my own live talk radio show until 2008, even though I have journal entries going back all the way to 1993, where I felt God was speaking to me about being on national radio. But it wasn't until 2008 that I went on and was quite providential in the way it happened with me going on talk radio, and then I had to navigate how much am I gonna talk about politics, because I didn't preach about politics, I didn't mention political leaders, hardly at all, it was just not a topic of mine. Yes, I was concerned about the direction of the culture since I started preaching decades ago, but I was not known as a cultural commentator, all right?

And I remember navigating that, praying, all right, how much am I gonna address these things? But I knew now on talk radio that these were subjects that would come up. It was not until 2010 that I wrote my first national op-ed piece.

I'd written some local editorials before for different newspapers, but it wasn't until 2010 that I started writing national op-ed pieces, and I've written probably over 2,500 since then. So I did not have, I had never endorsed a candidate, the thought had never dawned on me to do so. Now, fast forward to the 2016 elections, and I'm asked to go to a meeting where Rafael Cruz is gonna be, and Rafael Cruz, Ted Cruz's father, is meeting with some friends of mine who are really good, solid believers, men of God. Rafael Cruz asked me if I would consider endorsing his son Ted for president, and I said, look, here's my thing, anyone that I endorse has to be absolutely, strongly pro-life, absolutely strongly pro-family, which means opposing LGBTQ activism, and strongly pro-Israel. They also cannot be a Washington insider that's indebted to all the different groups.

They have to be somebody who's willing to go their own way, because if you're just an insider that just plays by the Washington rules, you know, you're only gonna go so far, because you can't rock the boat that much. So he assured me that his son Ted was that in every way. He assured me that, that even getting elected, it was impossible for him to win and beat the incumbent, and the way he did it, it was just God's grace, and there's a divine purpose on this, and I said, listen, I am committed to a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution. That's my heartbeat, and if I could work, if Ted Cruz could be president, and I could work with other leaders to help give input on moral and cultural issues from a gospel perspective for the good of the nation, then I would really consider endorsing your son. And he assured me, yes, that could absolutely be possible. So based on that, I endorsed Ted Cruz, alright?

And I explained why, and first time I ever did it. Okay, I don't intend to ever endorse another candidate again. Now, I could never say never in certain ways, but I don't intend to do it. I don't believe that I will.

Why? Was it because I was disappointed in Ted Cruz back then? No, that wasn't it. Was it because he didn't win?

No, that wasn't it at all. It was at the moment I endorsed Ted Cruz. It's different to say, here's who I voted for, but the moment I endorsed him as a leader, anything I ever said about any other candidate became filtered through that. Anything I now said about any other issue became filtered through that, and if I raised an issue with this candidate or that candidate or this party or that, well, you're just a Cruz guy. And I realized, okay, that was something I was not supposed to sacrifice, because above all, I'm called to be a voice, your voice, from all sanity and spiritual clarity. Some would even argue there's no reason to even say who you vote for, so that that doesn't color things. Fair enough, fair enough. But that to me is very different than endorsing.

Alright, now I want to go further. I want to make a confession here. I was asked to speak at a few Ted Cruz events. Two I was asked to speak at, one I was asked to pray at, in North Carolina. And the ones where I prayed publicly, you know, I kind of said a little, and then prayed publicly, the prayer was a very radical declaration of prayer over Ted Cruz.

I mean, it probably was not what he was expecting. We prayed with him behind the scenes before the event, two of my colleagues spoke, and then I got up and prayed, and like I said, my prayer was anything but a partisan prayer. You would say amen to that prayer. But the first event I spoke at, my goal was to get up in front of these hundreds or few thousand people, and preach Jesus, and preach core values of repentance, and gospel-based moral and cultural reformation.

That's what I did. But I also took some shots at Donald Trump, the guy from New York that we couldn't trust. Oh, I didn't mention him by name, and I did it with a smile, and people were laughing. But I did it. Some months later, I was away for a prayer retreat, actually it was a few years later, and I happened to come upon that video of me doing that. It was online, and I literally wept before God.

I could not believe that I mixed those in. I was shocked that I had done that. It just was not like me to do so. It's one thing for me to say, here's where I differ with a candidate, here, and even what I said and the way I did it, that wasn't the issue, it was I used that platform.

I was just there to preach gospel-based moral, cultural revolution, why we need it, why we have to have it, which is what I did the next time after that, left out the other stuff, and then why I believe that Ted Cruz could be a right person to work with. All right, now I'm not going to do that again, by God's grace. To the best of my knowledge, I'm not going to do that again either.

But I got seduced politically. It's not his fault, it's not anybody's fault. He was upright in his dealings with me and others, it was not anybody's fault, but my fault. I was just speaking at a church and talking to one of the leaders, and he was talking about a sister church where President Trump had known the leaders, had visited the church, one of the leaders had prophesied publicly that he would be re-elected, and you know, four more years and all of this, and since then the church has gone through a real sifting, its membership dropped dramatically, the pastor since resigned, the couple is divorced, it's a very sad situation, may God's grace and mercy and help be there for these precious brothers and sisters. Having said that, I said to a friend of mine, if I had been the pastor of a church and Donald Trump had befriended me to the point of me having access to him in the White House, if he actually visited our church and we got to pray over him, you better believe I would have made the same mistakes that they made.

I really believe that if I had gotten that close to things, I would have made the same mistakes. What's my point that when we conservative evangelicals finally had someone fighting for us, finally had someone pushing back, finally had someone say, I don't care how much power you have, I don't care how much influence you have, I'm saying no to you. Finally someone standing up for our religious rights, finally someone appointing justices that we could get behind across the country, finally someone standing up to tyrannical China, calling out radical Islamic terrorism for what it is, standing with Israel, doing everything that he did, when we finally had someone doing that, we married the party and the person, or especially the person even more than the party.

We entered into that unhealthy union that Dr. Graham warned about. Now listen, I know some men who were part of the President's Advisory Council, I know some of them very well and others a little, and I know for a fact, confirmed by witnesses, that some of these men were anything but yes men to the President. In other words, they were not swayed by the influence they had.

They were not intoxicated by it. Some of them have met with other presidents before, this was nothing new for them. Some of them have been in the White House multiple times, this was nothing new for them. They were not seduced by it, even though the general public looked at them and how come you're not doing more here or here, they were behind the scenes speaking. They were not joining the public chorus attacking Trump when he would do something wrong, they would speak to him privately, and that was the right way for them to handle it. But I'm saying evangelicals, largely conservative evangelicals, when we had what seemed to be our man in the White House, even prophesied, even miraculously, Donald Trump president, are you kidding me?

When that happened, when this man moved the embassy to Jerusalem, that nobody did, Bush didn't do it, Clinton didn't do it, Obama didn't do it. He's the man. We got seduced, friends, and I'm not blaming him, I'm blaming us. Sure, I'm just being candid with you. You can applaud me or throw stones at me. I'm telling you the truth. All right, we'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire today. I'm gonna go to the phones shortly, but before I do, I just want to say a couple more things. I believe the Church should be involved politically. If we abandon politics entirely, we cease to be a moral witness, we cease to speak truth to power, we cease to plead for justice for the oppressed and downtrodden, we cease to stand against governmental tyranny, we cease to hold our leaders accountable, we cease to advocate for freedom of religion, speech, and conscience, we cease to stand up for the rights of the least of these, all right? And in a democratic republic like the United States, if we give up our right to vote, then we hand the nation over to those who disagree with, if not despise, our values, and we forfeit our right to preach the gospel and live by biblical values, even in our own homes and schools and congregations. So the freedom of religion that Billy Graham is speaking about will be lost.

We quoted him earlier in the show. But friends, there's a major, a massive difference between having a healthy, God-honoring, uncompromising involvement in politics with Christians also running for office, serving as judges, working as lobbyists, and having an unhealthy union between politics and religion. You cannot bring the gospel down. The gospel is the glorious message of salvation through Jesus.

It is pure, it is perfect, it is holy, it is not to be confused with anything in this world. Politics is of this world. And when we marry them together, we are in trouble. No matter what side of the aisle we find ourselves, left, right, or in the middle. Do you hear me, friends? So get your copy of the political seduction of the Church. You can order on our website AskDrBrown.org AskDrBrown.org. Also, check out my latest article on monkey pox.

Yes, it is true that the vast majority of those getting monkey pox are men who have sex with men. How do we respond to this as followers of Jesus? Go to our website, check out the article as well, AskDrBrown.org. Okay, let us go over to, hang on, all right, let's go to Tampa Bay, Florida. Kenneth, you are on the line of fire. Thanks so much for joining us. Kenneth, are you there?

I'm right here. All right, go for it, sir. Well, you mentioned Billy Graham. That's one issue that I saw a whole interview or documentary or whatever on his relationship with Nixon, and he was really burned by what Nixon has done. Yeah, I mean, he never, Billy Graham never endorsed the candidate or identified with the political party, but he did give counsel to, I think, five different presidents, but Nixon had made comments, anti-Semitic comments, to Reverend Graham, and Graham didn't reply the right way, and the tapes came out and he had to apologize for that. But in any case, yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead, sir. The whole point here is, under Nixon, these are the years that my brother was living in the Galilee, doing irrigation work over there, and in 1973, then we had the Yom Kippur War, it was Nixon, and I think it was Ebon that was the ambassador that convinced him to go ahead.

I'll be Ebon, yeah. Right, he convinced Nixon to support the war and bring weapons in there, and at first they decided they would paint over the American flag and all the, you know, to designate the airplanes that were coming in so they wouldn't know it was from America, then they decided not to. You know what the payback from the Saudis was after that, as we ended up with an oil embargo.

Yeah, I remember the long lines, I didn't know the details of it at all, I just remember the long lines waiting to get... It was because we supported Israel, that's the whole thing. Supporting Israel and oil has been tied together, that's why I'm an ardent supporter of going solar. Now, if you look at my Facebook page, you'll see next to Kenneth Hersey, you'll see a sun lighting up a clear light bulb, you know, and I've worked over years, I haven't, I'm helping people do DIY solar at this point, but anyway, I started with the people in Africa and helping them get solar. Sir, I know that's important to you, but anything else you wanted to say in terms of the current...

The main thing here is, I began to pull away from this, because I'm Jewish, I had a Jewish background, but I didn't know of any messianic churches anywhere to go that believed in the Messiah and you could be Jewish, there weren't anything like that back in the 60s, you know, so when I went to a Baptist Church and they were all into this right-wing Christianity, and everything was red, white, and blue, and anybody that didn't vote Republican was an atheist, basically, I pulled away from the church and that's why I sought out messianic. You know, I appreciate that. Yes, I'm gonna go to another call in a moment now, but just to say, we do appreciate when folks do not call in and without solicitation, on our end, give out, here's my website, here's my Facebook page, that's not kosher etiquette online.

If you want to do that in the future, sir, with any place you're calling in, say, would it be okay if I gave out my website or I gave out this information? Otherwise, all we'll have is people just calling in and advertising and promoting their own work, so what you're doing may be fine and worthy, but the point I want to go back to, before I go to one last call, the point I want to go back to is this, that you do see what happens when the gospel is weaved together with politics, that people think, oh, it's Jesus plus the Republicans, or Jesus plus the Democrats, or Jesus plus this one or that one. That's when it becomes a problem. It's Jesus that we preach. So yes, we may vote a certain way, we may hold to values that are more in harmony with a particular party, but if there was a party flag, that's not going to fly in my church. That's not going to fly in my congregation, all right? Okay, let me go to one more call, and we will go over to Providence, Rhode Island. Justin, time is short, but dive right in, welcome to the Law and the Fire.

Are you there? Yeah, go ahead. Hi, God bless you, sir, and your ministry, and my question is on women's role in ministry, and it's a two-part question, and just to make it fast, I'll ask both questions. How do we reconcile 1st Corinthians 11.5, which says any woman that prays or prophecies with her head uncovered, which would imply perhaps women can pray in prophecy in church, and 1st Corinthians 14, which says women should remain silent in church, and the second question is where do we draw the line, so is it permissible for a woman to lead in worship or to lead prayer in the congregation?

Got it, thank you, sir. So we've addressed these questions because they're very relevant in their scriptures, they come up a lot on this. There's no question that women can freely minister publicly, can share the gospel, can teach, preach, can lead in worship, can speak by the Spirit.

There's no question in my mind, according to scripture, that they can do that. It's clear if you read Romans 16, it's looking for that there were many women who were intricately involved in Paul's ministry and played key roles as well. As 1st Corinthians 14, the most likely issue there is that of interrupting a teaching meeting, that you had women sitting on one side, men sitting on the other side, and because women did not receive as good an education in those days as men, as the teaching would go on, they would be calling out to their husbands, asking questions across the aisle, and because of that, you know, you got a meeting maybe of 30 people squeezed into a house, it was disruptive, hence if you have a question asked at home. Others believe that, it's a minority view but it's possible, that there's that whole little section about women keeping silent, that that was a question from the Corinthians, and Paul's response is, what? What are you talking about?

Did the word just come from you? I've already instructed you, how wrong could you be? So either of those two ways. I do not believe that women are primarily called to headship, just like in the home, that even though there's mutual submission, husband to wife, wife to husband, the husband is in a unique way the head of the home and carrying a certain responsibility. So I believe it's the same governmentally, I believe that the ideal is male senior leadership in the church, in the home, which is why that's the pattern you see, even in governments around the world. I do believe there are exceptions, where God raises up women to do other jobs, and they're anointed and called and blessed, but I do not see that as the norm.

But within your normal search structure, let's say you had senior male leadership and women were released to minister, preach, serve, lead worship, do all these different things, let them do it, let the Lord be glorified, and let us be blessed in the process. Alright friends, so if you haven't yet, make your way over to our website, askdrbrown.org, askdrbrown.org. If you don't get our emails, sign up, otherwise you missed the notification yesterday. I'll be the very first to find out about the political seduction of the church being available. So be sure to sign up there on the website, askdrbrown, askdrbrown.org, and then you'll hear from us regularly. You can pre-order your copy of Political Seduction of the Church right from our website. Back with you tomorrow. another program powered by the truth network