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The book of Revelation is it all for the future.
Hasn't happened are ready is at all symbolic will talk about it today. Time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.
That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm not surprised at all the candidate not in the least bit surprised these things were expect. I was expecting them but still when it happens. You've got to call it out. Speak to him I talk about well within a moment, this is Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire, use number to call 866-34-TRUTH 866-348-7884 if you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Phone lines are open to you if you want to talk with me about interpreting the book of Revelation, or just the end times.
The second coming form is are open 866-34-TRUTH we do been devoting extra time to discussing the end times the end of the age eschatology, the study of last things. The second coming of Jesus in conjunction with our new book that just came out yesterday not afraid of the antichrist. Why we don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture written by Craig Keener and yours truly Craig and I did not come up with the title, subtitle yes but the title was the publisher. So if you're offended by the title. I believe the preacher rapture, afraid of the antichrist.
Good great pleasure, not for the antichrist and pinpoint the fact the title was the publishers. The subtitle was hours but we do bring great encouragement in the book that whatever is coming our way. Whatever hellish attacks may lie ahead with her tribulation testing could be coming. Whatever works of Satan or man to come against us. God's grace is sufficient and in him we are more than conquerors in him we over come. Not only so, when God's wrath is poured out at the end of this age, God's promise to protect his people from his wrath. We simply believe that God will protect us all here on earth is supposed to protect us by pulling us out from the earth. We believe that we will be here as his witnesses until the very end. How does this all play out in the book of Revelation. I want to talk with you about that in a moment but first a couple of interesting reactions. This is what I was talking about right when I started the show's saying I wasn't surprised. I looked on Amazon last night and no sooner the book come out within the first 24 hours. There was a review posted one star review.
That's a negative review foster of investments probing worse and it was from someone who said on their believe in a pretrip always believe in a preacher rapture letter, believe differently, that giving every impression I read the book and read the book.
I just don't like what the book is about and therefrom to give you one star review, then a second person posted on the read this book. Everyone star review ready to give the money to the poor soul as always do my best to engage people I shared what was happening on Facebook and Twitter citizens interesting. The first reviews there for people who can read the book or won't read the book or malnourished will never convince me. Okay, go ahead. It's like this.
I I think your bed community. Go ahead, tell me a joke. Unlike a laugh. No matter what I like and left, getting molested so what kind of evaluation is that anyway one gentleman repented and apologized for what he did was wrong. I did read the book I should post a review okay.
That showed some integrity and it does began to post excellent reviews.
Positive reviews someone else posted a negative review because are you ready because we had the audacity, especially Prof. Keener.
He did this a lot.
We had the audacity to translate directly from the original biblical languages.
We didn't use the King James. Therefore, we should be rejected as tests have Less than a one star review, but thankfully folks actually reading the book or really enjoying it, giving it great reviews and and above all, were not dividing over this is a one pastor said was divisive even to publish the book. I been teach my people pretrip for years Peter publish this book is divisive. All that I could say was divisive for how into the rightly great planet Earth.
It was divisive for the left behind series to come out. It was divisive for every pastor to preach pretrip a final agreement it knows it. Why is it that one view is okay. You can put out a novel you can put 11 movies you can put 11 best-selling books. You can preach and teach it on radio and TV. That's fine, even though it's a minority view and an unknown through church history until around the 1830s.
Why is it that it's okay to put that view out lips… Actually, I will see that Scripture like you to re-examine it. Let's take a look at the word together why zapping divisive is an odd concept isn't if if you differ with my view you're being divisive. If I preach things a certain way and you different.
Now you're being divisive is one thing upon the pastor.
The church and you're in the congregation now trying to cause division is nothing if you have your church down the block of my church download block some of us as a church. A little block we frequently believe Scripture says in your best to pour them into a flock that's worse post new shepherds so I just find some direction. Interesting. One woman posted on Facebook. I don't find this comforting at all. In other words, the idea that will be rapture out of here before all hell breaks loose on the earth is very comforting to me.
I will find your view comforting. Well that that's a really dangerous state when pulses comfort one another with these words in first Thessalonians 4. It's not that we will go through trouble or hardship. The Thessalonians were suffering. Lots of persecution and Paul use them as an example of enduring Paul use them as an example of enduring hardship and a great example of faith under fire so his words of of comfort skews me first Thessalonians 4, his words of comfort were it were that those who die will rise again. And when Jesus returns. Those of us who are alive will become to meet in. There is something we and avoid trouble without the context it's don't grieve the way others grieve over the dead because we have a future hope we have a resurrection open those who are alive when the Lord returns will be caught up to meet him in the air and receive glorified bodies right then and never die. He was the saying hey you escape suffering look the same word is used for tribulation in different parts of the New Testament. It's… If you spell English it's THL IP SIS… And it means trouble. That means pressure means tribulation. What is Jesus tell us in John 1633 in this world you will have… You will have tribulation, be of good cheer. I've overcome the world. What is Paul Wright and ask for, to what is he say to the believers in acts 14 the 22nd verse, EE tells him that through many tribulations we will enter the kingdom of God and in other words, on our journey from here to there. We are going to pass through many difficulties many challenges many landmines lay before us is warning in Revelation the first chapter the ninth verse John identifies himself as our companion in the midst of tribulation and suffering in the end the patient endurance that are ours in the kingdom. So we understand in this world we will have tribulation and and let me ask you something.
Let me ask you this.
For Christians who have been burned alive for Christians who have been buried alive for Christians who have been tortured to death for Christians who have been starved to death for Christians who have been locked in solitary confinement for years for Christians who have watched their own families beheaded in front of their eyes. Let me ask you something. Have they not gone through severe tribulation, so was not the wrath of God I am a citizen of the wrath of God but is the antichrist going to do things worse than that is going to tortured to death. Worse, are starving to death were sort or or behead you worse. What I'm saying is brothers and sisters around the world have suffered all kinds of calamities all kinds of hardship. God never promised us escape from you Seo the great tribulation is the wrath of God. We could debate with all of the so-called grey tribulations.
The wrath of God last seven years lists 3 1/2 years of the age. We could debate that certainly the very end when the Lord returns his wrath is poured out all right simply with a pre-wrath rapture, the room immediately before that were taken out but bottom line is we believe as post rivers the same as pre-trippers that God protects us from his wrath. When his wrath is poured out on the earth, just like he protected the children of Israel when they were in Egypt, he put up plagues on Egypt, but honest people can protect us. That's what's written at the end of Isaiah 26 that we should go into your inner chambers and a high until the wrath passes by.
This is God telling us what to do, so there will be a place of refuge God will provide that God will make away some of his wrath is poured out is not Puranas God has the ability to be targeted when he pours out his wrath. And God has the ability to keep and preserve his own in the midst of it. So the question is why do we need the comfort of before things get really bad will be taken out of your that's never been the case is never been the case, what, when Christians were were lit up his tortures. Tortures were for Nero's madness and covered with oil and lit up as torches. The light the streets they they didn't escape before things got really bad when when Chairman Mao took over communist China and the church suffered severe persecution and hardship went through unimaginable suffering. They want taken out the hundreds of Nigerians the thousands of Nigerian Christians who been slaughtered first by Boca hurrah now by boot by radical Islamic law.
The herdsman went they've died every kind of horrific death and and women to be draped in children kidnapped and abused. They didn't escape it. Why should we think we will again I'm responding to this comment that a post review is not comforting. All that goes out to comfort the ghostly truthful but in fact our book.
Not afraid of the antichrist is full of comfort full of encouragement because it testifies to God's grace.
It testifies to overcoming in him. It testifies this be more than conquerors skews me, it testifies to the fact that neither death or life, nor angels, or principalities, nor powers, the nor the president of the future, nor life noted that at any thing can separate us from the love of God which is in Seiyu Jesus our Lord, and in all these things were Paul Wrightson in Romans 1/4 from Psalm 44 were going like lambs to the slaughter, and all the things were suffering we are more than conquerors through him, loved, so will your pretrip or post-trip for all mill or post mill.
Whatever your view reality is we will have suffering in this world we will have hardship in this world we will have severe persecution testing, but by God's grace we overcome okay will you come right back. Get your calls and look at the book of Revelation 866-3487 84 member, friend here on the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown the phones in a moment, but take a look with me in the book of Revelation right.
Revelation the first chapter let's just take a look there and and let's notice what is written in Revelation chapter 1 Revelation of Yeshua the Messiah, which God gave him to show to service the things that must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John testified to the word of God to the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah everything he saw a reading from the TLB. How fortunate or how blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and those who hear and keep what is been written in it for the time is near Johnson Messiah seven communities seven churches in Asia. Okay, so here's what's just important to take hold whatever else we learn from Revelation whatever future meaning there is in the book whatever it. Speaking of things yet to come. It also had to have relevance to that first community of believers be because as you know, in the second and third chapters, Jesus speaks to the seven congregations in Asia minor. He speaks to them with very specific messages emphasis you left your first love.
For example, or Smyrna persevered in in the midst of suffering, or Sardis have a reputation of being alive, the dead or related to CCM which increase the wealth of the of nothing adult will is rich, pitiful, poor, by the naked or Philadelphia strength is small, but you've endured or or or side tire you got that false prophetess and and and so on.
So he's addressing just like Paul writing to the Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, is addressing real issues in real time so is Jesus speaking to those seven congregations and then the rest of the book speaks to them now. I believe it also speaks to the church through all ages. In terms of the rest of Revelation.
I believe we can learn from what she's assist each of the seven interrogations in Asia minor. Just like we learn from voices to the Corinthians of Philippians.
All right. And I believe that there is special relevance for whoever will be the last generation, when the book of Revelation unfolds. So in that sense I'm saying that part of it must be pass part of it must be ongoing part of it must be future, but there have been many different ways that the book has been read and I I am no expert on Revelation of Prof. Keener's written commentary Revelation and and is an expert in Revelation is a New Testament scholar who's written on it.
I am not an expert in the book of Revelation, and to this moment I am not dogmatic about my overall reading of Revelation on dogmatic, but a few things that there had to be real relevance for the first audience is one that there must be some kind of ongoing relevance for the church in every age and that all of it has not yet come to pass full predator us at the beautiful predators a few months ago.
Full predators believe that we are now living in the new Jerusalem that this is the new heaven and the new earth that this is the age when death and sign the morning have already passed away minutes. Shocking view of you that I categorically reject so on dogmatic about the fact that a have special relevance.
The first believers ongoing relevance for believers in every age and that all of it has not yet come to pass.
That's clear to me but lots of other things are not clear to me and I'm wide open in terms of my understanding is a read the book, 866-34-TRUTH will come back talk about that more as the broadcast unfolds. Today now to the phones, Des Moines, Iowa Bill welcome to light a fire or greater. Dr. Brown ordered Ali talk here with you quite some time. Thank you, are ready to make micrometer need to be quick between jobsite I but in order to what I understand in order to hold to a post-tribulation rapture. You have to deny the doctrine of an imminent throughout the New Testament and all all writing very very stringent on Christ could return at any moment imitate the example innovators like you, but no one is only a day, nor the military has not because I'm not even the thought all right, but we know the times and sees that we know the times and see that is actually the doctor and that you have to deny it. No coming of Christ that I am I doing I did talk to Bill hi Hannah I need a verse that says Jesus could come at any moment saying no one knows the day or the hour that could be €10 million from that does mean eminence. I just need one verse that clearly says imminent.
That's not true. All the whole conversation, especially their one verse that exactly what's going to happen when Christ returns.
One of her unequal offerors need one verse that says imminent. Clearly this will right after my Bible and farming bill are so hang on hang on.
I really appreciate you calling and I know you're under in the run but you said all of Paul's writing say it. I don't find it ever is running many like that in many kind, many okay so directly loaning all right will you got it exactly wrong.
The Thessalonians. He tells in first Thessalonians 5, but this day will not overtake them as a thief that that he doesn't need to write about the times and seasons because they know the times and seasons, so there can be aware and when when people are talking peace and safety, and sudden destruction to come, but it won't be so depressed because will be aware and in second Thessalonians 2. He tells them that they cannot come until the rebellion happens first and and the Antichrist is revealed.
So Paul the first and second Thessalonians teaches the opposite of immanence intermittently and I cracked up to this is the second cousins to the man of sin will be revealed at the Antichrist after after the restrainers removed what the restrainer you tell me where the spiral wrestling with his restraining hand on outlet type. Let's just let's just read this, it could be God's hand, it could be it could be human government that he's established there over 30 different interpretations of what he could be. But here's what Paul has already said explicitly all right this is what he says explicitly. Now, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask your brothers not to be easily upset in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by message or by letter, is it from us alleging that the day of the Lord has come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship 36 and got century publicizing that he himself is God so Paul is saying this must happen first before the day of the Lord will come.
Don't let anyone trick you don't don't be deceived by the fees made himself totally clear. There and he's told us in first Thessalonians 5 that that we want. The date will not be like a fee for us because we know the times and the seasons.
So it's the New Testament does not Tina Streisand.
Christ referred to the victory of the time. You know what victory alone that summer is here that the time and what is the fit only for LU that because of what is likely to refer to Israel. So then if that's correct then everyone knows, unless Israel is back in the land that Jesus can come, so there goes immanence wrong. We now know you there in the land before that but so nobody knew Hank Roxburgh evident that part of it, but hang on, when Israel was still in exile, when Israel was still in exile. Okay, when Israel was still in exile. Okay if you understood that the fortnightly reported seven right if you understood that the fig tree referred to Israel. So then you know is Israel scattered around the world and and is was pretty desolate. Jerusalem is a Gentile hands. You know the Jesus can come back is no immanence correct. I so then immanence is not on the New Testament. The thoughts never taught. But after after the Jews came back to the land. Eminence doesn't play a role never played a role because the disciples were given a commission going to the world and make disciples that a commission Jesus is Matthew 2414 this gospel be preached as a witness to all nations then that the end will come. So when there is no their first days out preaching that I thinking Jesus could come any minute because the Jewish people hadn't even turned what worked, what were taught Bill brought the New Testament is to live in readiness anticipation, not because of the land, but because of the want that when he returns to be like him and and and he's going to deliver the human race from his people from suffering and pain and and will be glorified with him forever and ever and and that's what were looking for ever getting account for our lives so I I live as if I could meet the Lord any day because what what we do know is that Jesus hasn't come in 2000 years, but every generations died and we also know that you don't know the day your death and and that all of us have lost people unexpectedly and suddenly, so that's the immanence I'm thinking of. I could be with the Lord any moment you could call me home at any moment I could be taken out at any moment and I don't know exactly what is returning but I'm sure is not coming today sure that because that that the various things that he spoken of, have not yet come to pass. I would with urgency as the world is dying without Jesus people dying and going to hell this is happening every day I with urgency.
I live with urgency because I have one life to live and let me say this. I live with this much urgency now.
Bill as I lived with went.
When I held her preacher rapture. My first years in the Lord and in fact I live with a greater focused urgency because I know I got one life and the clock is ticking and and that's a reality I'm 64 now rose 60 when I got saved. But you'll see there's nothing in the New Testament that says Jesus could come at any moment. Rather, there he says specifically when you see these things happen then all the world is going crazy and falling apart. Lift up your eyes's redemption draws near. That being said, Sir, we can still differ on this and bless each other as brothers and live in ways that are worthy of the return of Jesus. Blessings on the rest of your workday. Thanks for calling between worksites here and hopefully will get to talk again thanks for me and Alyssa for your calls more like a lovely number and it's the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown to the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown at any moment believe it teaches that it teaches that we live in readiness and expectation that we do not scoff at the idea of his return of the Lord. The ways is coming so we can just go out and party and live in the flesh in the world right those who live like that will be caught offguard, either in death or with the second coming, but for sure the emphasis in the New Testament is not on immanence. Jesus coming any moment. Rather, there is a sense of urgency.
There's a sense in which he comes suddenly at the same time there are signs before his coming, and several of them are laid out plan.
Someone said to me the other day. Look, that the. The Bible gives 31 signs. I think that was the number things to expect before the second coming. Where is the rapture has no signs how do you reconcile that is the you made the thing up about the rapture having no signs rapture and the second coming of one of the same event is to parts of the same event. It's not that the one has no signs. Where does it say it has no signs does it for something that looks have have read into the text because the talk certainly 866-34-TRUTH 784 GB of the phones momentarily, but first the book of Revelation there are some who believe that Revelation 2 and three.
The messages to the seven churches in Asia minor that those do not only speak to the seven congregations they are. So the church in each city that's mentioned but also speak of seven church ages, ending with Laodicea a backslidden self-sufficient church I would check that a number of levels. First, there's nothing in the text that tells us it's church ages any more than Paul's letters to the Romans and Corinthians in Galatians and Ephesians, etc. that that those represent church ages is nothing in the text anywhere in the New Testament that points that you have to get it completely external to the text is my first reason I rejected second reason is, how do you know where to divide things. In other words, let's say you came to the conclusion that these represent seven church ages and you live in your 500 you think Jesus is coming soon to divide the seven ages up from where you start in the New Testament time until 500 if you live in your thousand units divide them up there if you live in the year 2000 you going to divide them up there right so each each few hundred years ago to change which group in which ages which doesn't work and then the idea lastly that were in the legacy and age while that may apply to a lot of the church in America and Europe are self-sufficiency as I quoted earlier. Jesus is to live to see you save yourself, I'm rich, some increased goods have need of nothing.
He said you realize Richard, pitiful, poor, blind and naked that that that applies to much of the church in America and Europe, but it doesn't report apply to the persecuted church they in India or in Iran when China or or or in Nigeria, reports the world or North Korea know they're much more like the church in Smyrna which is not rich in this world, but rich in God in the midst of persecution and suffering. And even so with Laodicea. There's a great promise of revival. If there's repentance, right come into and sup with you right so either way, the application that is the end of the soul away the sin nature with his coming down with his style or a right way of reading Scripture. Much of what's taught about Laodicea or Sardis can apply to much of the church in America or Europe today. Absolutely, as applicable, but I don't see this church ages, and then publishing for John Scott up to heaven people's it was here when it says come up that's that's that's a picture of the church going up to heaven, and thereafter, you never see the what I could see you never see the word church throughout the rest of the book of Revelation. True, you don't find the church on earth or in heaven as a person. Nothing is no mention of likely see it anywhere because Paul was writing to each ecclesia seven churches in Asia minor references them in the first second third chapter so that were Jews afterwards discuss about the believers in those keep the commandments, etc., etc., and the faithful witnesses is what it talks about but it it does about the ecclesia in heaven. No doesn't mention that.
So there's no scriptural support for the idea to John for thou this is John caught up to heaven that represents the church being caught up simply's an idea though support the text as the visions of Revelation unfold. Some believe it culminates first in chapter 11 and then there's kind of a recapitulation beginning in chapter 12.
Woodson culminates again in 19 others see it all is symbolism and and that in apocalyptic literature you can speak of what's happening now as if it was the end of the world. So it's a World War II if it was being described in apocalyptic literature would be as if the whole world was up in flames and all human beings are being destroyed and there is almost no one left them and that's the way apocalyptic literature. Literature paints things of these visions and symbols of things like that. So, some believe, hey this is this is talk about persecution under Roman Emperor and and and this is this is 1900 years back in time and it's that the triumph of good over evil. So it's it's it's historical in its symbolic other say the first two chapters. The first three chapters that's addressing the churches in Asia minor. But now the rest of it is symbolic of God's victory through the ages, but specially it's all-time at the future everything in revelation from chapter for honest about the future and it hasn't happened yet, but if you happen during a time of tribulation on the earth and and and then the return of Jesus and and and the thousand year reign and the new heavens and the new earth yacht.
I could easily read it like that. That is entirely future once we get beyond the third chapter.
These things haven't unfolded it. But even so, I really the poster boy without the slightest problem that the slightest issue that to me would be the natural way of reading. But how we understand it will ultimately play into our views about the end times. My understanding is the end times the end of the end times as we been in the end time since Jesus died and rose from the grave. We been in the last day since then, that the last of the last days the last seconds of the end times will be marked by radical people.
Great moving of God. Great working of Satan great outpouring of the Spirit great deception great harvest great apostasy light great darkness parallel extremes at the end of the age right before the Lord returns that's out.
I understand Scriptures unfolding all right back to the phones Emily and South Carolina. Thanks for holding welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. I went pretrip about 40 years ago the last 10 years I've been really challenged and just kind of looking at Scripture and import daylight change my mind because I'm not listening to people I'm reading the Scripture. But anyway, I just found something that I wanted to share with you and you are in in first Corinthians 1558 either all of the course. All of the Scriptures you know but but I thought it was interesting. A couple things now in effect. A brother in the flesh and blood cannot enter and inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery. That's real real key. Behold you mystery.
We shall not sleep, but we shall be changed.
A moment when Klinger buy at the last. Another key comparables down the dead in Christ will be raised incorruptible, and will be changed okay then you go into don't go to the last trumpet. In Revelation, but go to the chapter before the last trumpet which is chapter 10 verse five. It is the angel: saw any on the and on the land raised up his head to heaven and swore by him to live forever never created heaven and things that are in it earth and the things that are in it, and see the things that are in it that there should be delay no longer, which I believe that's what the reference to the time God is God is holding, you know, holding it back because just as he came the first time it had to be it is appointed time. This is also another time that anyway. Delay should be no longer. But in the days of the founding of the seven angel. He when he's about to found the mystery thing. The mystery of God would be finished as a declarative experiment that profit now let's go to the last trumpet, or just before the last topic is it that before the founding of the trumpet. We go to verse Revelation actually one more thing before that goaded first Thessalonians 4 talking about Tina being caught up that I don't want to be ignorant brother concerning those of falling asleep in conical fat that you starlight others who have no hope for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even though God will bring without sleep in Jesus. But if we say the word, by the Lord, where the Lord that you are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout that clear with the voice of an archangel with the trumpet again the trumpet of God that began in Christ will rise first.
Okay, getting Christ as of the dead in Christ. Those are the born-again believers right getting Christ will be right first blue light first then we who are alive. I'm getting my point here this minute we who are alive and remain. Will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and I shall we always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with your work now. Let's go to the witness that you got a jump to the point of this I should delay in some detail, but I want to be fair to all the colors I get glad this can read the whole chapter that I yeah do witnesses die for 3 1/2 day end up wrapped up like enter them on their feet, the breath of life enters them take it dead in Christ will write for. They stand up on their feet, and great fear followed and then they go up into heaven in a cloud. I think that a reference of the rapture.
Though I believe that that kind of like I don't think it's real crystal clear in Revelation. I think there's four pictures of the rapture. Revelation that's just one of them but anyway if you just search it if the people will just search it felt before. Clear references to the rapture. In Revelation, and I believe that at the end of the steel trumpet.
The file is the cutback in coming up empty. That and get the know Armageddon. All that other stuff done it all kind of a clear picture okay. I thank you from waiting inside rush but I want to make sure we got that point and I thanks Emily 866-34-TRUTH know what we lost Noah in Michigan again until it is a bell in Toronto. Samuel and Dallas been in Michigan you folks your next stay right there. I'm going straight to the phones on the other side of the break. When I read Revelation when I do go through it. I'm always overwhelmed by it so intense, it is its sole Lord it's so cosmic and even though I don't claim to understand some of the unfolding in the what and when and how I am impacted by an army strong in the midst of this fallen world recognition that things arise in my strength victory. I it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown and voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks fire, I I was supposed to be leaving for Nigeria right after the show today.
My visa has not come through. We are looking at some alternative ways to minister to folks. I was expected to be within Nigeria. This during the break I was interacting with my faithless is that Dylan got that email sent out right before we return.
Hence, the smile on my face and my voice 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Isabel in Toronto. Welcome to light a fire around having having thought it was like a pretrip rapture. Now let's think you and I respect your dying here. Currently one smart guy on until I look at like" rapture when you come again managing there will be people on the earth that are alive that will remain alive that will procreate and he that that you know fill the earth over here again crank the rain and we're kind up with the lightning Eric at that last time then who would be left to procreate on the world to think so. Thanks for the kind words Isabel and of course sort this out there smart people who differ with me on this and we don't divide over it. We just look at Scripture, and do her best to understand rightly. But let's just let's look in Zechariah the 14th chapter and it says in verse 16. This is after Jesus returns after he is destroyed wicked people with the breath of his mouth. Second Thessalonians 1. Second Thessalonians 2 speaking about that.
Revelation 19 the judgment that he brings it says this, verse 16 then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King of the knots both the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate Sukkoth tabernacles so you have those who are aggressively attacking and they will be judged and destroyed when the Lord returns, so let's put things into three classes. You have the believers were caught up to meet the Lord, you have the wicked rebels who are destroyed and you have the others. The survivors of the nations that attacked Jerusalem. Some would say it's it's those recalled the sheep in Matthew 25 verses 31 to 46. Those that treated the persecuted church or the persecuted Jews with kindness that they get in. Others would just say the survivors of the nations get in.
Either way, the millennium, the thousand year reign of Jesus on the earth with people procreating all that it's going to have people who said this can have people who fall under judgment and at the end of it. Once God's rule and reign is lifted, and Satan is loosed, it says large multitudes would rebel against the Lord so ranks not give it suck to be that they're all perfect. Saying so, the survivors of the nations attacks of the three classes that the believer caught up to meet the Lord, the wicked rebels who are destroyed and the others they enter the millennial kingdom.
The survivors of the nations that attacked Jerusalem and to the millennial kingdom help. Thank you very much you're very welcome look were still looking forward to. In other words, where would looking forward looking forward to gold by gold to the final unfolding of that in Ezekiel 38 and 39 and some of these other passages right so we do our best to understand for this vantage point, when everything unfolds, it will become all the more more clear of let's go this Samuel in Dallas, Texas. Welcome to light a fire around four check with you awarding the Dr. White's view on the rapture of the future or you don't believe comply with your your understanding yet he's out that he doesn't focus much on eschatology.
He is absolutely not pretrip hundred percent not pretrip is not dispensationalism. He may be more millennial, that there's a literal thousand year reign of Jesus on the earth emailing somewhat through its post-millennial's are not exactly sure he doesn't major on it, but he's absolutely not pretrip for sure right right I are generally run because it would be very nice to actually have a good debate between your you because I have come across your view quite a bit and Dr. Mondrian without get over the different writing them to be much of a great going back to my point, I just read your article actually on the street you talk about dobby and how the young single rapture wasn't really went on more than discussed before 1830, but if you read the historian William Watson and that he basically talks about you talk about seven option seven people spoke about the rapture before 1830. To that extent that it is a court but I would like to know if I could read out and you do to be fed by this is what this position is for the use of the word. This position was not known to pure logic, maltose of the 17th century that it would that it would be used by dobby and his followers is not a discontinuity office clerk eschatology can part as "to the contrary, due to the continued the term was used in more than one rate, but it cannot be spent on employee. Dispensationalism arose in a vacuum. All of the pure logic of anomaly and then he goes on to alter our 203 escort one or two actually L1 is up almost drinks in 1589. He basically talks about your kind of family from the big uterine blossoms of the Montgomery according to Luke 2130 FIG, exhorting leaders to watch and click.we may be accounted worthy to escape all those things that shall come, and 5027 Joseph Joseph need also as part of northern illustration of the rapture and be used the terms extremes of the finger letter lecturing to the same meeting and meeting the Lord and began.
This is similar.
Yeah, I appreciate that. Here's the rub. Okay, here's here's the rub. I have at first, I would love to have their find fine scholars who are pretrip friends of mine, fellow believers, pastors, leaders and other yet love to have the best thing would be really interesting and we could do it in the way of honoring one another and love to do there some great teachers out there that the differ with me and I differ with them so absolutely sure thing of the decking said when you dig deeper on these codes. They do not teach the same thing as a pretrip rapture with seven years of tribulation on the earth and in the church taken out in advance.
Many I've seen many quotes alleging will this early church leader held to it for that church leader how to when you dig deeper you find out it's not what they said when you read the surrounding context more broadly.
Was just looking at a doctoral dissertation written on it that the whole thing was to focus on all of the different allegations that this church father held to this event and when you read the larger context that it actually did say that all and sometimes escaping is not being taken out and brought to heaven, will things happen on the earth, so II can say with assurance that the idea of a pretrip rapture as taught today was never taught church history before 1830 and the furry coat that can be read from the second century of the 15th century that when you look at the larger thing in context.
You'll see is not saying the same thing is what we refer to today with little respect or but perhaps in a debate that can come up as well.
I have taught yet. Let's let's go to bed in Michigan. Time is short so dive right in.
Please follow yet go for. Please harmonica up so for second to my disorder suffer through our love your work and I want you to base all time so I appreciate almost all of what you do on the rapture, though I noticed that you guys keep on lumping how it opens with the gathering together with the day of the Lord, but I have little doubt that you are aware of the day of the Lord of the doctrine of the Old Testament or the revelation in the Old Testament about the great and fearful day Lord of Zephaniah, and many others talk about. So to me it looks like Paul could be dealing with some actually refuting somebody thing that the rapture either.
People had missed the rapture, or that there was no pre-tribulation rapture element if he says concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the gathering together or rapture. We ask that you not troubled as though the as though the day Lord is come already in tribulation, so yeah yeah yeah jumping out only because runtime number one. I appreciate you reading it, but grammatically, syntactically, the day of the Lord is the parallel to the coming of the Lord are gathering to him. That's 12 is that the day of the Lord's will be looking forward to the second Thessalonians things he's in second Peter three and that's also tied in with the coming of the Lord and three, the day of the Lord is dreadful for the wicked, but for the righteous. It's wonderful that we are looking forward to the day of the Lord, because that's when he acts in power so I appreciate that, but syntactically, grammatically, can't work, it doesn't little respect to the point you want to make and we'd still differ on that appreciate you appreciating of the work that we do all right friends at a time.
We got a lot of to talk about on thoroughly Jewish Thursday.
Tomorrow and then I'll be in town phone lines open gobbling on Friday so will continue our discussion again. If you have a copy of the book yet. Not afraid of the antichrist. You can get it on our website together with the interview process must buy that you have enjoyed close review on Amazon. Let others know discussion