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June 5, 2019 4:50 pm
So does God want us poor rich.
What is the Bible say stage for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown of friends we have with your schedule around today, so as to be able to take your calls follow up on yesterday's program, talked about prosperity gospel.
In a recent interview with Kenneth Copeland that has gone viral.
Obviously, you know where the secular media's coming from.
You know what they're going to do with any of us is basically going to be a hit piece, but the question is about the content of the interview is God want his people wealthy today are rich is a blessing or riches or curse over the catheter look at this the wrong way will talk about that 866-34-TRUTH what's your take 866-34-TRUTH 87884.
Now I want to make a few comments about yesterday show because I had a very distinct mission and goal and I pray felt the Lord wanted me to address things in a certain way.
Yesterday, we sought to accomplish those goals. I'm I'm looking at a YouTube channel of the videos watched over 5000 times written YouTube which one of our shows that that's that's a good start and thumbs up hundred 66. Thumbs down 29. Now I'm not evaluating truth based on what people like or don't like. However, when you do something controversial like this and the likes to the dislikes are better than 5 to 1 that indicates to me that in many ways we hit our goal in terms of what we talked about on the show again today were going to dive in deeper to the prosperity message what's right what's wrong, what's truth, what's danger with heresy, etc. also talk about bad fruit. Good fruit either from critics or from people that are preaching on doctrines were gonna evaluate that. My goal is to help you be and do everything that is going to be and do. My goal is not just give your information, but to help you sort things out on your own and walking away. That's honoring and pleasing to the Lord up, let's just put up a few of the comments that I noticed that came in on YouTube that I appreciate and thank you for posting. Go ahead put up the first slide there gossamer doll publisher Dr. Brown for your continued patience and willingness to discuss these difficult issues. Thanks that that's all that's our goal. Our goal is not to be controversial or goal is not just to get people watching or listening. Our goal is to be edifying, constructive, so for over a decade on the radio now daily radio we have weighed in on controversial issues with the goal being more light than he lets go. The second slide again, these are some of the responses from L fantastic balance perspective. Dr. Brown I know we only post this with the critics they were here. We can use a positive one. I'm so grateful for your ministry because it is truly unique, particularly since I just watched American gospel documentary is feeling somewhat despairing aggrieved that we got everything wrong in the American church except for the reform stream. Of course, assumes speaks in tongues and is thus the secessionist starting to question some of the things your message today really help re-center my heart and mind on the biblical truth which is more nuanced and less extreme judgmental, needlessly black-and-white on secondary issues. Thank you and God bless again that that was the goal of the show to address difficult issues to sort things out.
The let's look at one more slide that I want to play a clip or you take a look at one more.
Jason pray for brother in Christ, thank you for your faithfulness to truth and to the integrity of the word of God. Hey look, here's the deal. You don't need to make me happy and I don't need to make you happy.
We need to please the Lord, you don't have to meet my standard of truth I don't have to meet your standard of truth we bow before the word of God right someone said I noticed you to comment brother your failing Titus one subject, rebuke, false teachers, while the question is, what if I don't think the person you think is a false teacher is a false teacher right so brother a says to me you need to review brother being he's a false teacher for the base estimate. You need to rebuke sister say she's a false teacher do I do what the people are asking me to do, or do I do my best to evaluate scripturally based on that for centuries, so your luxuries of I had people at a few comments on YouTube. I noticed that I did my best to look at many of them did to hear your hearts and get your feedback we've been calling today 866-34-TRUTH and I welcome calls people that differ with me 866-34-TRUTH 7884 but it is in short, some people so just a waste of time you took an hour didn't answer anything though. Actually, I dressed everything I was going address. I dressed issues of criticism I addressed how we evaluate things that I can evaluate my ministry.
I talked about why I wanted Benny Henschel was a mistake or not talked about that email. It's years and years back. And one thing out of decades of ministry. We talked about evaluating the prosperity message. Even though we'd spent hours doing that in the past and written about we address the things that if there was going address and I read along email from a critic of chemical openly says that these demon possessed. Now I know people that I have a close relationship with dear dear friends that love Jesus, but are thoroughly Orthodox believers that are some of the most highly respected leaders in the entire body of Christ in the world and some of them said.
I've been friends with chemicals and for four years. He's a man of God is is is is team is godly. They honor the Lord they walk in great integrity and and they wept when they saw the interview and knowing hell was going to be used right so you got one person sings demon possessed units and also for 40 years and this person I know well in the chemical and all but this verse are well there about okay so what we have to do so here. What a Scripture say the Scripture say and and now let's evaluate is what Scripture says is with this person teaches is what Scripture says here is this person lives. That's all that we can do right, but here is why it takes time and effort and diligence. I saw a link that someone posted on on my YouTube channel and he said hey, I've posted a series of videos critiquing Justin peters out and asked him about his work to try to talk privately about some things is been emailing each other in an so much as a I did this critique a whole series critiquing Justin peters. He's never responded.
So every body. Listen carefully watched carefully okay what what you're about to see.
This is very very important. Let's let's take a look. A good example of this can be seen in this clip of Bill Johnson, the pastor of Bethel church in Redding, California. This from Bill Johnson Jesus was born again you know Jesus was born again see they tasted Jesus died spiritually and Hale cease to be God and had to be born again, he had to get save. In fact, Bill Johnson doesn't believe that Jesus was born again in hell but that his resurrection was a rebirth which is perfectly biblical.
Today I got the second song in my beloved son, today I have begotten asked 13 tells us that the phrase from the father.
Today I have begotten you is in reference to the resurrection.
So he was born through Mary the Virgin, and then he was born again, and resurrection. I asked Bill Johnson Pointblank when he was interviewed about that very thing and he explained point blank what he believed not. I got asked Justin peters. Have you revise that etc. or always that in the right context, etc. I have been quoted out of context. Your YouTube clips that that that you misrepresent every body okay I heard in this I've heard snippets I been guilty of this. I've heard snippets I replay them on the answers years back, only to find out that the person had subsequently repudiated that was taken out of context is not actually what they meant. So you got to be careful disabled doctor by need to study some. I am not called to evaluate with every ministry is doing on the planet or particular ministries. Every charismatic ministry any more than Southern Baptist leader. His whole ministry is to to give account for the other Southern Baptist teaching give evaluation why listen you run your race all run my race and that way we can honor the Lord and where there are issues and questions will address them when I feel there abuses. I reach out to people privately but on a private access I write or address it publicly.
I'm even put out a whole book dealing with the issues as we've done with some of these abuses, so want one more one more point and there were going to the phones and the rest of the show will be interacting so call now you want to get on 8663 or truth.
Yes, the Bible warns about heresy and false teaching. Very very clearly and I raise my voice alongside of Scripture to say we must be on guard for things that deviate the fundamental truth of the word and at the same time. The Bible warns very, very strongly about judging with inadequate criteria. One of the worst sins that we can commit is the sin of judging, falsely judging, wrongly judging, superficially judging, hypocritically your warnings about that throughout the New Testament and every strong and and James Jacobs is there is there is one judge and lawgiver can save and destroy this one this one so so don't don't you go around judging your brother at the same time we are absolutely called to judge error and to call out error which you better be sure you have information I I watch the interview with Kenneth Copeland and Ann Gallo speaking from. I disagree with certain points about about wealth, etc. will get into that if you missed it yesterday will expand more today and will will discuss will go back and forth right but I thought he was really can't be loving and gracious towards the scouts ahead know why you're here, etc. but I that's what I said I saw demons and saw those that he was flirting. That's judging that's judging okay. I I have misjudged people. Thankfully I didn't do it on national radio or thankfully I didn't do it in a national or international article or something like that. But the look you. You get so I have misjudged people over the years I have thought someone was proud when when they were quiet. I have thought someone was was uppity when they were just insecure. I have misjudged people and and I have thought that certain people know they were hoarding. This rings instead they were jealously getting money to give it all away to the poor, and I misjudged them and thankfully was never got beyond my heart unless careful, God cares about these things. He really does number and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks for joining us. The Bible say about provisions what is the Bible say about generosity was the Bible say about sowing and reaping what is the Bible say about where our hearts are to be a little relationship should be to possessions 866-3423 friends if you appreciate what you're doing if you believe in what were doing and want to stand with us and help us produce more cutting edge content and go where others might be afraid to go or go to places where folks might not want to go and intellectually, ideologically, theologically, culturally and use it with grace and truth become a patriotic supporter would you do that today.
Put aside pennies a day $0.37 a day $10 more per month become a patron partner and get to bonus shows on video every single week to go to patriot on.com/S Dr. Brown asking your product watch on YouTube or Facebook. We've got that info for you right up in the show description patriotic.com/ask Dr. Brown help us reach more people help amplify our voice with Google phones will start in Arizona with Jesse walking to the line of fire around think you might call. I wanted to let you about a question of prosperity and that you don't work.
And you know there's a lot of critics that you know right be all that out a lot about the Jolo being that you know people say I want a Lamborghini. I want a Lamborghini on the lumber and you know at the start of like you cannot like and God arm but you know I like different variety that John and I you know your your bit your really biblically reminded so I went on with the of the culture or your regular that your plan there are praying for healing and restoration on people and also forgot to economic situation of the people there like it there and better something yeah and you know I don't think you know God, please feel the person help them with their situation and then the computer that will are about your service.
You overheard McNair and while he didn't really rebuke me even more wanted to correctly I guess. Where do you think that of asking your help. The you know are complete, you know, Charlie and Jesse and and helping some clarity. I the biggest issue I've had with word faith teaching is that some have preached a heretical doctrine about the cross and said that Jesus normally died on the cross, but he suffered in hell. Okay, say that he suffered in hell. I don't believe is biblical but it is not heretical in itself. To say that he was tortured by Satan that he ceased to be God I was born again is a glorified man that is heresy and there been some of the word faith Of preset that is a heretical doctrine right to to say that we confess the word I believe in that.
To say that we are overcome is in Jesus. I believe in that. To emphasize our identity being in him. I believe in that, to speak the word of God, get in our hearts and our minds and to say I have to align myself with the Scriptures as I believe in absolute those are all things.
It would faith people do that.
I agree with and I agree that healing is for today and that our assumption is that God desires to heal the sick, that there's a yes from heaven. That's something those two things, I believe, based on Scripture. If I have set my heart on earthly things that I'm trying to use the word to get myself earthly things for my personal gain satisfaction that is carnality that a serious error. That is a big big error in the prosperity gospel that says that Jesus died to make me wealthy that Jesus died so that I could be rich.
They does we can be rich spiritually, and be with the Lord forever, but we are not promised, earthly riches now limit the me take this further.
I absolutely believe in divine provision. I believe that God continues to honor his worth, and that is we so generously we reap generously and I I many of you listening and watching your among the people that through the gospel through honoring the Lord putting him first working hard, ethics, generosity, sowing into the kingdom you seen God's blessing on your finances that's scriptural that that that's never gone away.
But it is not the purpose of the cross or the goal of the cross and since we do not live earthly things. We may be called on to forsake everything or if you have a beautiful home or a beautiful car. Your heart is not in that you thank God for you. Use it for his glory. But your heart is not caught up in those things. Jesus warns about covetousness. Paul warns up against those who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. At the same time Paul has words of wisdom for those who are rich in this world not to put their trust in uncertain riches with the way up your foundations in heaven, and to be generous and we know that the gospel was underwritten by people who had money and that God uses people of substance to be a great blessing and any of you who've been caught up in severe poverty know that that is not a blessing in itself is not a blessing to to not know where your next meal is coming from, but is not a blessing for mother to wonder how I can feed my children, my husband is dead and I got no resource how you live, and those of you who've been crippled by debt. Maybe there was a medical crisis because of that, you're in terrible debt maybe made some unwise investments rethought there while you take advantage of and you're in terrible debt as a curse that weighs on you it drains you II can I can handle angry, potentially violent crowds much more easily than I can handle unrelenting financial pressure right and then when some person a businessman or businesswoman blessed by God to say, the Lord spoke to me to send your ministry $50,000 or hundred thousand toughs and suddenly you're able to reach the people you want to reach in your and you're able to do what you want to do and that bird lifts off its health. Thank God for that. So I do have an issue with folks that just sit around and criticize and they do very little to fund the gospel in their criticizing someone whose message may be off balance, but is funding the gospel around the world and here's just a mouse just to throw out and and thanks.
Thank you. Question by the way, just if your emphasis was on whether say please are not whimpering. That's a whole other subject we can speak we speak we can proclaim we proclaim we need to ask. We ask it falls into different categories, but that limit me just make one more point which is better in God's sight right. Someone has a church congregation and the congregation is bringing in $200,000 a year and this person pastor with young family in order to live in their neighborhood. Believe about need about 60, 70,000, the birth of a weakened budget that out you get in the 70,000 salary and that's just a moderate income in the neighborhood in which we live your supports New York and California and do anything with them in other parts the country be rich with that but so you you that's we can budget out and we can bring only one extra staff person. Here we can give only certain amount to missions, etc. right so there's that scenario or the ministry generates its maker hi number $50 million, $50 million. The leader of the ministry gets a salary of 250,000 right and so proportionately. It's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the whole it's it's what 1/200 of the whole words as other pastors getting one third of the whole and this ministry gives away 20% of all their income to missions and in this type of level were this person operates on the 250,000 is considered good and then in the board says that's that's a fair salary desperately.
There's not just a right or wrong. There there's you cancel that will make 70,000 at least 250,000 and make a judgment based on is there a thousand other issues to look at someone raise this issue today. Why is it right for pastor minister to own a car with a complain when they could get around for less money. Taking a bus with a Greyhound bus across the country will look it's a convenient get this okay so would say in our ministry for me to get to this place this place this place this place and the people supposed to meet with that. We need a private plane and here's how it's justified and here's our board's work it out and we can be totally transparent about it and this makes good sense. Stewardship it might it might make better sense than flying commercial. The fast fast fast fast vast majority of ministry colleagues that I work with the know even of large ministries do not have private planes and eight they fly commercial, but I know some that do and it makes good stewardship sentence $60 million .0 but it makes good sense for them to do it all right and have a 45 hour flight going to the bathroom first is that the bathrooms out of the thought like is that some megamillion dollar claimant that the.
The point is that we look at the maintenance like this that we understand what they're doing that, it actually makes good sense for me stewardship perspective.
Those are the issues that have to be evaluated. We can't just evaluate based on the surface of things. Okay we we II was critical of someone's ministry and didn't speak it. I was just talking to a friend and I was critical because of some of the finances person said don't you know this person doesn't take a salary there rich from real estate all their all their print that the house they live in all this. That's they were very rich in real estate before they went to ministry.
They continue to cultivate.
They don't take money from their supporters. I didn't know that I judged by outward appearance. So let's judge righteously with this family. Let's schedule a that's full of play and edification as opposed to carrying on like Scripture calls we come back 866342 got a couple of phone lines open call rethought the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. There all kinds of promises in the Proverbs generosity and financial blessing. And there are a lot of verses in the New Testament about that as well and are absolutely true at the same time we are called not to put our heart into earthly treasures to live in light of eternity to practice a pattern of generous and even sacrificial giving for the kingdom. These are important values. There's truth in the message of prosperity. There is error in the messenger prosperity we want to do is be biblical not reactionary 866-34-TRUTH welcome to the life I hate next week. I would be speaking with and pork on the front lines of the ex-gay movement having command of lesbianism herself is an important conference coming up in Minnesota. Just put on your and Robbinsdale, Minnesota put this on your calendar.
June 21 and 20 seconds a Friday, Saturday, all right this just 2 1/2 weeks out Friday, Saturday, this is a restored hope network conference. If you are struggling with same-sex attraction of a family member that is gender identity issues.
This is a great conference to attend if you're anywhere in the Minnesota area. 866-34-TRUTH let's go to the phones Sean in Texas. Welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Brown how are you and well. Thank you wanted one thing to get out of the question out.
I came to Creighton pride of the charismatic word of faith church and in my kind of blindly follow that or maybe like birth three or four years that I discovered apologetic and not Walker Martin Rodarte) fill charismatic I'm a little more effective than what it what I now and info.
I've I've I've been on a personal security people at my church where you know the pastor will fail. We don't take a salary and and I and I don't think you corrupt or anything like that, but I could claim time. You know, I thought � think of every day and ended in only a family you know so you know, okay, I don't think Valerie but you do get something in there, million dollar house actually tactic that because it better to perish, though, that's one thing the kind of a kind of bothered me because it is like look out for me in mind and the cloth you know whenever though I understand the okay my second. But my question is always hear people say we think negative. Think about the prosperity met everybody never defined when it becomes heretical. You know, Kenneth Copeland, like we have 50 points number church every year. I can't listen to them anymore. I don't have to leave the sanctuary at what point does it become heretical because I know people that when he preached all of Europe.
The desire to make money and I know the people are Christian but it's like what point do you think that person is heretical based on what they said so. So Sean these. These are important questions, and I appreciate the fact. On the one hand you are raising questions and a concern. On the other hand, you're guarding against an overly critical spirit because of a been there, Sean. I've been on the overly critical size because I got some ethical scholarship behind me. It was easy for me to judge everybody and Terry buddy down in here you got in some cases not naming names or some other loves the Lord may have a certain are they, mispronounce the Hebrew to Greek, judging them and they're doing more for Jesus that I am sitting there in my seat of judgment. On the other hand, were called to to be discerning and recalled to recognize error recalled to to rebuke error etc. so here's here's what I believe is true about the prosperity message and here's what I believe is heretical about okay what I believe is true is that God is an abundant God that we need to have an attitude of infinite supply in him for the gospel and that as we serve him and honor him that he is generous to those who are generous and that blessing comes is as we we honor the Lord with our lives. However, prosperity is not necessarily financial gain prosperity as is having what you need in the moment to glorify God and to live there that's so, so it might be surviving in the midst of persecution living in a hot where where every day there is a ghetto bird drops a piece of bread at your feet, you know, it could be generating millions through your company and living on 10% because you're giving 90% away. See if if if a prosperity preacher was putting in the heart of businessman and and people he can make money a desire to to make money to support the gospel worldwide and decide to make money to give it all away. That would be commendable, but that's that you're not only what's gonna happen when you give people desire to make money there to become covetous and carnal. So here is where where where where prosperity message would be heretical if you actually taught that Jesus died to make you financially rich that Jesus went to the cross the UN as a second Corinthians 9 that that that he became poor, that we through his poverty might become rich and that that is the fundamental purpose of the gospel. That's a dangerous error. If you say that godliness in ministry. This is a means to financial gain pulses. This people of corrupt mind who have that attitude in first Timothy six. If you cultivate a desire for well if you cultivate the love of money is part of a gospel message.
That's heretical if you preach your the most was giving church in America. I believe this is Gateway church in Southlake, Texas. I'm friends with Robert Morris I preach Robert Morris in Gateway. I know many of the people there.
There people of integrity, etc. okay big giveaway as as far as I know right now.
$1.2 million per month to missions. $1.2 million.
They giveaway to missions. Robert told me early on I don't preach prosperity. I preach generosity.
That's our message and he said if if you preach tithing to get more money into your church double plus that if you teach tithing so that the people will be blessed in their personal finances. God would bless that so again the motivation of the heart is a big thing. I know businessman. They love the Lord and they get together and they pray and they strategize ways to make more money in their business with their whole goal support the gospel support the gospel have their own lifestyles increased and improved get to a degree that it stops there because that's they're not looking for more about that.
The biggest concern, though I would have Sean's is a large word of faith, emphasis that can often deny reality. But you know I by stripes. I'm healed. This is your Barry right or worse still, preacher, heretical doctrine of atonement that that I repressed earlier in the broadcast. But Sean with the Lord give you wisdom make me give you wisdom. I personally have no concern if a pastor set on take a salary from the church and he gets benefits of of having his gas tank filled me that's is nothing right, that wouldn't concern me. If however he's getting all kinds of other perks or he's selling his books through the church and making thousands of dollars in book sales generated within his own church that then go back into his own pocket so don't think salary those kinds of things would concern me more hey thanks for recalling for your honesty. 866-34-TRUTH.
Let's go to Andrew and Maryland. Welcome to the line of fire overdosing on apartheid. Good, good, go ahead, I'm going to talk and I wanted to make a better general comment and I hope you don't mind me plugging in the view of your book right now about you have an online direct anyway. Anyway topical vertical line to face in the current medical care is the charismatic movement and as for me I identify a bit of charismatic traditional way like we are looking to fill kind of want to be careful what what should be the third building what, if anything that is not among the few month ago I got two of your quote authentic fighter and playing with holy fire marketing on my part, part of the strange fire so I can be a little more. Coming from.
So yeah so you kind of still going on it but I still believe in the good. The plan to let you know about that, by all means please I I'm so glad that you got authentic fire and strange fire. This way you can really see with rest. McCarthy says see his concerns then read my response see where I agree see right differ in that you can lay them out.
You can evaluate them based on Scripture based on free but that's the way to do it to read both. So friends if you bought strange fire by authentic fire you, but I think you fire by strange fire in Lester ready in one camp and just need to inform yourself with the other one says and that's what you got up at good for you I'm I'm glad you did that and listen friends and thanks for the costs are all here. Mrs. plainly I believe in God's provision.
I have friends of mine whose whole life is ruled missions.
That's all there given to missions admissions admissions that they live, breathe, sleep, eat and visit missions missions missions everything to them. They believe that the word of faith and prosperity message was God doing something to bring about a spirit of generosity and provision from the church and things went in the direction of carnality and know in other words, you have a pendulum over here right and and and it stuck over here it's it's too far to the right is as I'm holding my hands. Okay I right left arbitrary or too far to the right and and it stuck on this mentality that the less money you have, the holier you are the poor you are, the holier your and and and you you you don't treat ministers right you know you the them more difficult. Their life the better because there ministers, the less money they have, the better because there ministers right and very little given generosity towards missions and the poor will go almost correct that and he brings a messenger provision, generosity and blessing to get you to the middle of it now swings only over to the left where I'm confessing you know a Porsche or something like that or I Abe I got on my with Mike my refrigerator door. This this is mega expensive piece of jewelry that I want. I'm confessing so it went from generosity and provision over degree right but if it swings back political wave generosity and provision.
There is a healthy balance between say a word of faith church with an extreme prosperity message that is super generous and gives a lot to missions but has some real serious error and produces a lot of carnal believers is mostly that and this hypercritical church that that gives a was nothing to missions and to help the poor. There's a healthy balance of provision generosity abundance for the gospel. But my heart is ultimately beating the gospel. Eternal things will I share the goodness of God in this world are exactly the it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speed and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I went back to Dr. Brown, thank you sir. Dr. Mark McGrath said that some earlier role. I graduated in 1984 and very familiar with word theology and director of your I been acting from one of the Lord all and your law misconception is that something a while ago. The company concerned you spend it on others inherently that Jesus died spiritually and he that he ceased to be God that he was tortured by lightning. Hell ceased to be God and was born again is a glorified man, I would sit a sense of the heresy anonymously. Kenneth Hagan taught that think he did, but you can direct me on how I know the idea that the average Jesus suffering in hell, I don't agree with but I don't believe that's heresy the idea that Jesus suffering hell that some believe honestly that's heresy and I know the Scriptures that that are used to support that. To say it was tortured by Satan in hell that he ceased to be God. It was born again is a glorified man that's deftly heresy.
In our court. Helen Courier where John Calvin about that. Once you become about that. Particularly. But something light of bodily punishment along with art at the heretical orders with the horror so they can happen on the cross just as well been busy doing when not debating that point, you would agree with my sister decided I look I speak at conferences. Sometimes apologetics conferences where they have they actually have sections on the cults the Mormons this the of Jehovah's Witnesses, and word of faith.
I actually have spoken at conferences like that might my sister-in-law is Ray McGrath.
I have friends of mine were Raymer grads and their solid Orthodox believers that that all mainstream on all the fundamental points in here there. We have some differences and I believe the things of swelling in certain ways to dangerous extremes. That's what I warned about it and have that you go ahead please. Okay well you know a lot of heart and my library mainstream view on the issue and a lot of work.
People do, but concatenate you.I don't I've never heard anybody so who your are you quoting somebody or are you good I I I am quoting things that I read, but because the person as far as I know no longer teaches that I don't want to associate your name with it. That's why I'm just referring to, but is mostly both agree on that that's that's heretical the idea that Jesus died on the cross and then wall.
He was subject to death of the pangs of death that Peter talks about in and asked to that they could hold and that during that time he suffered the equivalent of eternal punishment on our behalf and that was part of death and part of the cross. I don't agree with that.
But honestly, that's heretical. So I ask you this one.
One question appointed some of the calls, but how would you define as word faith apologists are, how would you define prosperity biblically well every red I think you have about you and I stuck my grip cut down "prosperity yeah some years." We were taught when I graduated from Raymond 1984 on day teaching on was primarily in the area of healing correct and and Hagan actually never wrote a book on prosperity except a corrective one. That's what I believe he said well that a couple little mini book on prosperity that were taken from transcript right he never wrote you never back down the road. Any book other than the my butt you will be extremism on prosperity began after I graduated, and here's what I felt people Gertrude wing of the Word of Faith movement Kenneth Hagan Raymer weighing a member of the band quickly. The televangelist wing is for you.
The thing go not in the area of prosperity was the televangelist's getting a lot of money coming in there right right right exactly, you know, and I have no you people do that you the Scripture fundraising. I know you that any use or that a prosecutor.the Kenneth Hagan said that biblical prosperity is being reported something about using abundant resources or the kingdom of God. And that's something I think we all agree on this and Ron that this is why everything must be nuanced and accurate those we can make sweeping statements about about the Baptists about the charismatics about the Catholics about the word faith about the Jews about any group and in the moment we do that we are now in danger of mixing truth with with error exaggerating, etc. so right thank you for calling I I appreciate it and thank you for making that distinction will let people work it out and were were we giving opportunity for callers to weigh in thank you sir I appreciate a call another time. All right will be stranger 866-34-TRUTH Donald in Tennessee drug next what's on your mind. Dark brown I like to change gears for a minute if I could yeah was the stance that I find Morris not talk about the prosperity gospel, but the gospel. What can you define what the gospel is because I see in Luke 9136 that the apostles went out to preach the gospel before date of the month of the cross and most people their conception of the good news is the gospel that Jesus died on the cross first in the how can they preach the gospel before Jesus even died. So the rights of the preaching of the gospel which I believe even goes back to the first reference may be into Matthew the fourth chapter where where the Greek word is used for that. But is that the arrival of the kingdom of God in breaking of the kingdom of God that's in your preaching heel was what they were sent to do so.
They were there were called to preach repentance away from the centrifugal why because the kingdom of God is at hand and that was the good news.
That's where it starts is that your point yeah well that's what I the way I interpret that to me. That was the gospel and and now Jesus comes along and died, not the gospel of Jesus died first in go over what I whatever the old gospel to get abolished right.
So how do you put together the well will install says first with his 15. The brothers I want you I want to clarify few the gospel I proclaimed you received it of taking a stand on it. You also say, but if you hold to the message I proclaim to you as you believe in the purpose I passed on to his most important, what else receive the Christ died for sins, according to the Scriptures. He was very he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures that he appeared the safest in the 12 etc. so the point is, is one the same message the kingdom of God is arriving the kingdom of God as it hit the King is here, but it's not the way you expect the king is not in the die for your sins that you can be saved and forgiven and have a personal relationship with God, and now Romans 1417 the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Matthew 633 seek first the kingdom of God's righteousness, etc. the kingdom of God living within us and we advancing the kingdom on the earth through the gospel, but all goes back to the cross. He was pointing towards the cross we preach it in the fullness of the cross of both and then thank you Donald but see Jesse in Minnesota. Welcome to the lawn of our time is short so dive right in. Irate crow. Here the question how can you try a Packard future profit that the underlying question with Pat White stated their very charismatic authority figure and there it, they appear to be doing miracles and things like that. How do you know the real thing.
And I have a couple of qualification. First of all, is it by then. Thank you Lord is good by their personal testimony and if it by their fruit or a good bite something out right so suggested great questions you have.
The creedal test, you have the moral test okay so first you evaluate what is this person preach right and in many critics seek to do that. I suggest with fairly in a balanced way. Evaluate what this person actually teaches. So wind it up with that.
The main issues peripherals roles in a different right evaluate them based on the main gospel issues. That's the one part now how do they live they might be orthodox in their doctrine, but they might be lying hypocrites they might be wolves in sheep's clothing.
How do they live right person practicing sexual morality, is this person an alcoholic or drug addict. Is this is this person feeling money, etc. so if you see that that the outward doctrine is accurate, but they are living in disobedience to God.
There hypocrites, then obviously you can't trust that you said I don't know how you're living personally, I just know with your preaching publicly. Okay will then see what accountability there is right or are they regulated by the government organization or are there books open are there other people that you do know that you can trust that can weigh in. Either way and if you're not sure and you simply need to pray Lord, give me wisdom I don't want to be hurt or misled by false leader but I don't want to miss something that your blessing me with and ultimately know that your relationship first and foremost is with Jesus your great Shepherd and then with a local community of believers, and that's where you can discern and weigh things together a friend's run time, but hopefully find in these discussions constructive and giving you a model to follow. Discern and onboard God bless