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October 8, 2019 4:20 pm
So how do we build the house of the Lord. How does the church of Jesus get built up an amazing interview with my friend Bob Gladstone coming next stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.
That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown.
My guess Bob Gladstone says it's time for a Jesus movement. It is time to build the house of the Lord Bob Gladstone. I have worked together.
Now, since late 96 early 97 he started Brown's revival school of ministry, which became fire school of ministry is poured into our students and grads for over two decades has racist kids in the ways of the Lord has pioneered a network of house churches call the Kings people is now written a book I've been waiting for this book for many many years is called a time to build a time to build revival the church and God's eternal purpose. Bob, great to have your modifier at long last, with your book.
It's time to build amazing privilege to be here in your encouragement and support are all over that book well. We've been in this for many years together. As I said and I have seen over the years Bob your great love for Scripture you love the things of the spirit.
The practical ministry and at the same time in harmony with that you are a word-based person ultimately earning a PhD in New Testament studies had the privilege of being one of your dissertation readers and it's out of your love for the word that that you are convinced that God has a pattern not detailed in in every last dimension but that God has a pattern for the building of the church. Why do you believe that Jesus has given us a blueprint for what it means to build the house of the Lord, will I believe the practice of the apostles in acts, and then what's implied or directly stated in the epistles give us that you know Jesus prophesied and proclaimed he would build his church upon the rock and then when Paul and others actually did that when we take seriously what they did we see the patterns and principles that formulate the house of the Lord are right, so let's let's flesh that out. Let's start in Matthew 16, where Peter gives his confession of faith. And then Jesus says that on this rock I'm going to build my church, my Eckley CMI contribution first, what is he mean when he says on this rocket.
What was I got to do with Peter Catholic views its dispute to the pulpit. What's the rock that Jesus builds on all the way I see it, of course, Peter is not the pope that's not.what's being stated there. On the other hand, it's more than his confession. It's this person with the deep revelation that Jesus is King when he has that faith in that revelation, than that's the sort of person upon which Jesus builds his own covenant people are and and what is Eckley CME was at a brand-new word. We have just a couple times in the Gospels, Matthew 16, Matthew 18, Paul uses it a lot.
Was it just the same word for Old Testament Israel now being used. What was it used in a new way, what's, what's your take on it.
How would you define a clay see a and and what's Jesus mean by saying while it does translate words from the Old Testament write the word call which means assembly or congregation. And I believe at times it translates another word a.you okay and and so you know it it does echo. Therefore, the covenant people, whether they're physically gathered or just their existence. It's a reference now to the covenant people that are going to be built on faith in the Messiah, so messianic Jews and believing Gentiles now become this new covenant community new in what way. Well, obviously they have Jesus as their king and their all spirit filled partaking in the new covenant.
You know the new era has come, and these are the people that belong specifically to the Messiah in the flesh exalted on high is King and when we speak of a new era new community. How radical was this and what challenges do the brain that you have Jew and Gentile together in one faith community, but not all living the identical way right will that's the great mystery revealed that you have people from such radically different backgrounds who become blended in a family because Jesus is King, and because the spirit of God is bringing them together in what Paul calls the bond of love.
That's a radically new concept where they actually become family not just standing on the same plane, but there actually family their brothers and sisters right again friends. The new book by Robert Gladstone a time to build the reason I said been waiting for this book for many many years is because of been working with Bob over 20 years and when I heard him preach or teach. It's always chock-full of new insights will be done interviews we just recorded a series of interviews that will be on God TVs we talk about fire school of ministry online was been enriched by Bob's insights within the students that have been in his class and knew Jesus people in class in first Corinthians of the things of was been blown away by by the content, the riches of it and have been dissuading okay Bob, you got it get this out to a wider audience and Bob just been waiting for God's time, why, why was now the time to get this at Heather's fall into place that now is the time to finally put this in book form the Lord so strongly put it on my heart. One night, so I immediately began to take notes and make an outline and then I just worked on it when I could until it was out, but I do believe there's a prophetic moment in a prophetic message in the book in the title itself. You know it's time to build. I'm getting out of Ecclesiastes 3.
Of course, and and also there's echoes of Haggai there, but I believe it's a prophetic time for us where God is releasing grace to build his house. That is his people, his church, his way. We've mixed a lot of human conventions and traditions in the way we constitute his house. I believe he's releasing grace to do it now with what I would consider more apostolic wisdom or more in the kingdom way art, so we recognize that God moves in many different cultures many different ways and that he's bigger than our structures.
He's bigger than our experiences are traditions and what may seem foreign to me is very natural for someone else. So the point here is not to say other systems are wrong or bad, but we recognize that a lot of what we do we do by tradition of some of the tradition is built on the flesh rather than built on the word of God.
What would you see Bob is as some of the the wrong ways of thinking about church or building church. Or maybe church than we do it in America that to you just strike it was contrary to Scripture what I see some of the tendencies is geared more toward an attendance culture that is selling a product to consumers rather than calling people into covenant with Jesus and covenant end up with one another and therefore really intentionally building relationships and breaking bread together, sharing life together, sharing resources, sharing the Holy Spirit and sharing mission that's more of what I see in the New Testament, we tend to gear things.
And again this isn't meant to be a criticism, but an observation that we tend to gear things more toward consumers, and attendance culture we can come and go as you wish. Rather than having that sense and I can't just leave the way I would leave like I would leave my family this way.
It's like there's a bond there where we share everything in order to gather to be conformed to Christ's image rather than individuals being conformed to Christ's image, who happened to gather in an assembly once a week so Kat can we ultimately build the kind of church that the New Testament envisions and be the community that the New Testament envisions. If the extent of our coming together is say one corporate meeting in a building for a couple of hours once a week. No, certainly not me that's that's part of what I'm trying to get at in the book we need that that radical commitment to Jesus first. That's really where I'm coming from and then to one another in order to embody him together it. It takes levels of sacrifice that we are not use to buy just attending were in an environment that demands relationships with people that we would not normally maybe gravitate toward and that we in our discipleship includes overcoming different issues in our relationships and then working together and taking full ownership, rather than leaving it to a staff that demands things on our souls. On the one hand, but on the other hand, it develops the image of Jesus in ways that the other format, simply can't write so it just like you couldn't develop a healthy family right by doing something like that. So it in in what ways than is the New Testament church seen as a family, not just God's family that were his children, but that we are literally family with with one another and is that something that's attainable in 21st-century America almost certainly it's attainable and we were all humans were all called to this in a work were told that we are baptized into one body by one spirit so were not just baptized in water were not just baptized in the Holy Spirit, but we are baptized into the body were immersed. We have grace and we have the presence of God to be knit together and to create what Paul calls the body, which is as organic covenant. As you can get so this is a reality God creates. We don't created if we try to do it in our own power.
We turn it into a cult and one extreme or just an you know once we conference the other extreme, it's only by the spirit that we become the people together that God created us and called us to be and and how does discipleship work itself out in in this setting that you're speaking of which requires people getting together, spending time with another blending lysed together loving one another so make ourselves vulnerable on some level, and caring about others. How does this play into with strengthening our relationship with Jesus and being better disciples of Jesus. As we go, family, community, more together here while the first commandment is you will love the Lord your God with all your heart, so my strength the second commandment is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself. Know Jesus teaches us one week when we bring our gift to the altar and there remember our brother has something against us. Leave your gift is like there's a there's almost like a practical pause to the first commandment in order to make sure the second commandment is in order. There you know they're there. They're related. One is greater than the other but they're dynamically related. So I teach our folks. We can't be true disciples without being immersed in churches family and the end result of the disciple making mission in Matthew 28 is to plant these types of churches out of these disciples of the two go together hand in hand. He didn't really have discipleship without this kind of church in my understanding of Scripture. You know it's interesting to you think of Jesus setting his example in John 13 love one another as I have loved you, so it's interesting he doesn't say love God. As I have loved you, which certainly we should but love one another as I love you and John 13 and in first John three he says the way we've come to know love is through his having laid down his life for us.
Him having laid down his life for us and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers so because Jesus lays down his life for us. We lay down our lives, one for the Haiti Bob where can folks get a time to build just getting started in the century.
Where can they get the book, they can order it on our website.
The Kings people.org/build right the Kings people so the cell's the Kings people.org/bill be enriched by this we are talk about being in the midst of revival that experiences like convex they were all in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution.
Here again is Dr. Michael Brown back friends want to far, this is Michael Brown delighted to be with you. If you have a question for my guess Bob Gladstone scriptural question about church about fellowship.
What needs to be the community of God 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 7884. Let me encourage you to join us online with our complete online program are complete school fire school of Ministry intensive two-year program. Then with 1/3 year internship you can actually come in and turn with us where you can then transfer your credits over to other schools like the Kings University online get advanced degrees. There go to fire school of ministry.com fire school of ministry.com enroll in classes today. You can study with Bob Gladstone can study with me.
You can study with our other gifted faculty, the fruit of our labors. All to God's glory all his grace, the fruit of our labors is seen in missionaries and evangelists, and pastors in mom's and dad in singles incredible fruit all over America all over the world and this is what you'll sit in the exact same classes were these folks that and you take them in the privacy of your home full audio classes you can listen your car as you travel, and then with that we have full study guides practicums so go to fire school of ministry.com request more info today or enroll apply for classes. Bob, I don't want to embarrass you in saying this, but you are absolutely not a self exalting person you're very happy to be background you've never been eager to get your name in front of people. In fact, you kind of shy away from that and yet you wrote this book a time to build as a person. My one and folks that went through the whole book. I wrote the forward to it. My honor to do so, but you you felt to write it as a personal memoir and intake people on a journey with you through revival the fires of revival and through church planting what you feel that you redo it like that. Yeah that's a good question thank you for not embarrassing me too badly. But there's a couple of reasons why I included memoir and Moses was the most humble man on the planet since early in the Bible get a rug of espresso. It's okay to uncover their so for one thing, you're one of the points of the book is God's creation of an masterful use of time that he does not work according to our digital socket to me right now or I'm not to have it kind of mentality you know we want everything now we want full success.
Now, without development, without time without going through difficult times in the wilderness in order to come into the promised land.
So I wanted our own story to reflect that that even with times of revival, which didn't last forever, and there was even sometimes after that that were difficult. God's purpose is bigger than it all and he's always working toward that and I wanted our story at least bits of it to reflect that and illustrate that another reason is because I knew that some people who knew our history, you would be reading the book. And finally, you know.
Story is powerful if if I'm telling a story you can feed into other people's stories and I wanted to write it that way. For those reasons I think so eat you paint an amazing picture of being in the Mr. Brown's revival but you and your church were impacted by it is you are doing ministry in your church as a young man you with your wife Gina.
You were impacted by it before you. You physically moved to Pensacola were part of the Browns revolves what happened in your own lives in your own church yet turned us completely around and upside down.
We were associate pastors mainly for youth in Wisconsin in our pastoral staff visited Brownsville got radically dramatically changed. Came back and gave testimony.
One Sunday morning and that was all she wrote. I mean, I happen to be away on a missions trip on the Sunday that the pastor gave testimony know I had shared with my youth.
Before that, and it was the best youth service we ever had in the last one because the church was so change that we all your worship together. From that point on. But when I was gone I was out of the country when I came back to that church. It was a completely totally different church in every way. It was a dramatic change was amazing to him give me some concrete example. First of all, there was this deep commitment to intercession, we were the spraying church the dynamic during worship, which was pretty good before was now out of the roof.
There were manifestations super natural occurrences of the spirit at times divine at times demonic that were constant it was. It was even more intense in that regard. So designs apparently is there is moving and demons were being exposed and not all absolutely from every possible angle. It was very intense, and it happened when when everyone went down to Brownsville. The whole place went down and all got like a motion we know a handful just a handful, came back, gave testimony has dry up yet. Pray for one another.
It was wild right so the only logical explanation is God's supernatural power at work and then from there, God called you and your family and then wife and two children, which became five children of nothing that you can become five for three more with three more were added. How old were were John and Abby would go down. Janet was a few years old. Abby was still one around something like that.
God yes if you got down and in early 90's a right 96/97 when the school started.
I guess to then 1 1/2 yet so so so what what happened when you were in services night in, night out for years is as I was get paint a picture of what happened in the midst of revival so we I mean things were really geared toward these gatherings were people came from all over the world. I think that's what you're asking.
You're just being a witness of this yeah there were so many dimensions to the revival, of course, the primary one the most wonderful one was the manifest presence of God in all of the effects of his presence. The main one being that deep sense of offer him with the result of repentance and devotion to him. There was the draw of people from all over the world and of the parade of nations.
The presentation of all the different nations were visiting that week was when my favorite parts of the revival that just the dramatic testimonies of people being completely turned around on a dime. You know, in line to come into the revival because their dragger by their parents. They're not even in the faith, and then by the end of the week there in the baptismal tank shaking under the power of God thanking God for his mercy and then you see them.
20 years later solid citizens in the kingdom of God and men, and it was night and night out.
Yeah, and just witnessing this, it was like angels watching God at the dawn of creation. It still seems surreal that we were even there yet and and friends here.
I've written much about the revival of spoken much about the revival but reading Bob's book where he paints a picture of what it's like in revival again.
Robert Gladstone a time to build. You can order the book@thekingspeople.org/the old Kings people.org/build so reading your account of it stirred me afresh. And even if you're talking now I have to hold back tears because of the memory of what we witness God do night in, night out, saving sinners, bringing back backsliders renewing believers, calling people to holiness. So many got a call to the mission field out of it. The school of ministry was raised up out of it and by God's grace we sent out missionaries around the world in a couple of weeks.
We have our 20th annual missions conference is mind-boggling as this is all God's gracious route out of revival and yet a major point you write in your book, and a major point of starting with revivals to say thank God for revival and we must have a fresh wave of reviled fort for America's future but revival can't do certain things in revival is not intended to do certain things. So what would you say by divining tented by the very nature of the thing would be limitations to revival while the the conscientious of following of the word of God in constituting the church that does not happen automatically in revival revival serves the larger purpose.
You know Steve used to say, God loves you and has a plan for your life and I see and that a little code from the Lord that God has a plan and it's actually bigger than revival. It's the building of the house of the Lord.
Revival does not automatically make sure the house gets constituted as a family. It rather awakens us right where were at. And then it's up to us to take hold of revival the deposit it gave us in the purpose of God and build God's house his way.
The responsibilities on our shoulders to do it in partnership with him rather than for him to do it for us. So the revival gathers the lost awakens the saints rings us to repentance. And now we have to get on with the business.
We have to get on with living our lives as disciples. This reading Facebook comment from one of our grads John, I feel the fire of God is he Bob recounts the story of revival. As I read what he wrote Bob it's very common. If we sit together with with old friends that ran the revival or with grads who sat in the school of ministry with a similar in the revival. We surround a tape, may we haven't seen each other in years.
We sit together and we begin to just share memories raw raw crime within within seconds were all crying because of this memory of what God did in the reality of of his presence. But we always knew that that's not the end goal. The end goal. This is to then get on with the work and reach the lost and fulfill the great commission are part of it in our generation and see Jesus glorified to the max in our own lives and and that's what's been your heart ever since that that we've got a bill the house more about what you hope and we got a minute what you hoping that readers of your book will get all that they will catch the vision and realize what God's purpose really is and that purposes on this side of Jesus return to build his house his way during revival. We experience visitation but that is not God's ultimate purpose is ultimate purpose is habitation and you can't get habitation without building his house, according to his wisdom, that is the purpose that revival serves so we've we've talked about it.
We talked about it during the Browns revival going from visitation to habitation. So Jesus is the one who built his church, yes, but he builds it through us just like he reaches the world through us, or we cooperating with his blueprint we come back. I want to dive into first Corinthians, Bob Dr. visitation on his insights in first Corinthians are incorporated into the time to build mental order going the Kings people.org/bill respect for the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown, the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and colleague Dr. Robert Gladstone, known by his name Bob which we realize you can spell forward and backward and comes out the same way when the things we love about Bob or spelled backwards. Bob but sitting here with Bob. He's written an amazing book a time to build revival the church and God's eternal purpose really dig into first Corinthians and and some of what we learned there about the pattern of the church in building the church, but I just want to be a bit of history so I had been praying and crying out to God for many years for outpouring revival in America. I was very close to Leonard Ravenhill the last five years of his life famous for the book while revival tarries I preach 40 or 50 times for Dave and Tom Wilkinson in Times Square Church in New York City in row 91 to 95 and in that further quicken my heart to see revival come to America such a praying church was such a strong message of repentance and holiness and then God called me to be part of the Browns revival, which begin Father's Day of 95 lesson about five years. The written year 2000, Wayne some and then really came to an end. About that time but the fruit of the revival continues. The fires continue to burn around the world and God call be done about 11 months into it. It was months before I could get down there right before getting to Brownsville. I knew that something was ready to break my book from holy laughter holy fire came out three months before revival broke there in Pensacola and the closing words of the book or are you ready I knew something was at the door and God use my friend Steve Hill, preacher of repentance and holiness. Great evangelist with the Lord now. He was also close with Leonard Ravenhill and the first week I was down there immediately. Since we need to do something in the day.
Can we do leader will teach leaders Friday day general public Saturday because the meetings were every night, five, six hours so Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Tuesday my primitive couple thousand people would come to pray in the meetings Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday nights and and then a day or two of rest. Sunday service and then than it day of rest so we had nothing going on in the day, so I immediately said to the guys listen while I come, I will teach leaders in the day on Friday and teach general public on Saturday and then as I was leaving God drop something in my heart for ease that the revival needed to entrench needed to go even deeper and then expand when needed larger facilities and more workers and and then equip we needed to train laborers and then export send the fire around the world and shortly after that. Back home, God laid on my heart to race at the school of ministry Browns revival school of ministry, which became fire school of ministry and Bob was our first time faculty member and is continued with us for 22 years and now all of his classes are entire program is online for you the same classes were people sat and were taught in the midst revival now these people out the mission field and around the world very much fruit for Jesus. You can take the very same program. The full curriculum at your own pace online, go to fire school of ministry.com to find out more, but Bob in those early days of teaching you as our first full-time faculty member along with me that we brought others you would teach survey classes Old Testament survey New Testament survey develop detailed study guides for this your very meticulous your your very much a word base person and you look up as much as you Canada Hebron in the Greek you know even better.
So you got your study guide to go through the books of the Bible you in the book of Exodus you teach on the tabernacle and something happened in your class. Describe the signs and wonders that it was just an amazing time we were talking about the omnipresent God being particularly present in the tabernacle gifting his presence in his tent to his people, and as were talking about it in a several of the students as well as myself began to feel the heaviness of God's presence and when we looked up into the room there was a very distinct missed their and we all kinda sat there and kind of an off filled silence for a few moments and then there was just an explosion of praise and intercession for the next.
I think couple hours.
This was my class came negative is your hand in that I have it right. Why would I remember I was waiting because the class one from one building into the other building and you came in kind of white as a ghost as it Dr. Brown because your classes. Next, I think you should see what's happening and I commend some of the students laying on their faces of this crying out some jumping for joy, and it was a holy visitation and it ended in what was the atmosphere like in terms of fear of God.
Reverence for God in a moment like that yeah it was that there was a mixture but at the root of it, especially at first was this absolute all there with you know it's you know, even to the flesh a little scary. It's like he's really manifesting his presence in but it soon turned to a joyful celebration as well as burdened intercession adjust was all at the same time. Yeah in response to doubts presence and is not nothing we ever looked for or talked about or preached in over looking for the mystery of the cloud, but right leisure time of the manifest presence of God coming in the cloud. He manifests himself in that way, and the effect was dramatic on the people. But again, we don't base our life and experience base or life in a relationship with God and on what is written in his word right and you believe that the word of God has given us a clear pattern that that the Lord did not just leave us trying to figure out how to do church again. He doesn't give every specific guideline because things have to work in a multicultural way and through the centuries you believe God's given us a plant template a blueprint. How does first Corinthians Thai amethysts yes well for one thing, Paul talks about his traditions like an authoritative kind of protocol that he brought into a city. The first of which, as he defines it in first Corinthians 15 you know that the gospel itself. The full apostolic gospel the way Jesus and Paul proclaimed it and expounded it. It's not just how to get saved. It's not just justification by faith. That's crucial that's fundamental that's absolutely critical, but it also goes on to the transformation in the new creation in Romans five through eight, and then it goes on to the new community that's created by the dominion of God.
Romans nine through 11, all of Ephesians implied by Jesus in Matthew 16, so the full gospel, Paul would bring into a city and therefore they would follow other traditions having been baptized in engaging what he taught them to do in gathering for prayer and prophecy, which is the tradition he mentions in chapter 11 and then another tradition in chapter 11. The Lord's supper, which I don't see is a sacrament. On the one hand, or a little part of a routine during a service on the other, but a family covenant meal that according to first Corinthians 1017 both expresses and causes family unity built in love and honor in the spirit right when you say you don't see this a sacrament what you mean. So it's not just something that you're doing to receive grace when you physically taken the meal though there is something special about physically taking in the meal. It's not just taking the elements and something magical happens. It's rather a covenant meal in the tradition of Passover, with the courses of bread and wine or bread and grape juice that remember Jesus and you don't just mark the covenant, the new covenant. There are so when when you do this is a community, how does it work out. Again, this is your part, you been part of churches for years where on a Sunday, the past that the communion elements and you participated in that and in this blessing, and that in the Lord Moose and we are reminded of of the death of Jesus and what he accomplished on the cross with sacredness holy and grace is received through this, but you understand there is there's more to that the way Paul describes in Scripture. Obviously when you talk about some get drunk and and all you see all that the bread and the so there's obviously a meal that's taking place that he's describing their and a proper order to it.
So how do you do it in community and and what he sees the benefits of that what we all get together. Everybody brings food and the host you know has extra sacrifice and is just like this.
It's a pretty big deal just to have a bunch people in your home to have a meal so everybody contributes and then when we begin we begin with prayer we remember the body and blood of our Lord, we exhort one another. Sometimes we have prayers right then and then we have a fellowship meal. Oftentimes after that is when we go and share the spirit with one another. Sometimes it's before the meal that we share the spirit with one another, but we try to do it all together and have children involved as well yeah so hot how they enter in. Well, I mean, especially as they grow in the Lord.
They'll be involved with prayer and exultation and prophecy just all the above. You know the last time this past Sunday we had the Lord's supper and you know we learned that it was the children of the home to prepare the entire home for having all these people over so there there involved from preparation all the way to participation God it by the way, just glancing up at Facebook just saw Tom one of our grads in the in Oklahoma when I was there and he's no medical doctor during his internship and Andrea part of your community. Andrea and husband Randy part of our team for a number of years and I know that there were things in the hearts of of of many of our grads to live something out in a way that was done in community. I don't fire church. We have our corporate gatherings which we love and we worship in your preaching of the word. And as for the movie the spirit and pray for those in need.
But then this is lived out in many, many other ways in community within fire and you really can't be what God's calling you to be in total isolation. So take us through a time to build your new book, take us through some of the key elements revival by design can only go so far. And if we are to be God's revolutionary people change by the Lord bringing change around this part of what you called the new juice Jesus people, which is that the biblical model try to follow. Take us through the book will so the entire book.
Shall I read it real quick. I'm just kidding you know you you did a good job of summarizing it one of the things that I focus on is that God's eternal purpose is to establish his kingdom on earth. It's not merely to visit and revive his people, but to establish his kingdom. What that looks like on this side of Jesus return is a people a church as family who are together becoming conformed to the image of Jesus. So I try to lay that whole thing out scripturally and illustrate in our own history. How revival was always trying to serve that purpose.
Now I'm part of a group of people who are trying to take the power of revival in just the power of the spirit and follow God's wisdom for his wineskin very intentionally. It's not easy, it's the hardest thing that I've ever done. It's also the most fulfilling and glorious thing I've ever done in and are you seeing fruit.
Oh, absolutely yummy. We know we have. We've had our ups and downs we go through very challenging times, but anywhere right now in the midst of something like a mini outpouring. Our children are getting filled with the spirit radically touched by God.
We have beautiful stories just in the last few weeks. After praying for revival in our midst were experiencing it in overseeing people new to the faith come to the faith were seeing people who are maybe not acquainted with the things of the spirit getting touched by the spirit sourcing the fruit of course we always want to see more but we thank God for what were seeing our friends again.
The book a time to build Robert J. Gladstone can get it at the Kings people.org/will give us the right that it's the line of fire with your host activist and author international speed and Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown friend the line of fire in a mechanic about the phone number to indent many times when we do an interview which is focused on the injury rather than calling tomorrow's broadcast retirements important cultural issues. Major case heard by the Supreme Court today. The initial hearing so that oral arguments very are important issues will talk about tomorrow. Take your calls as well and we got a very special interview plan for Thursday with Dr. Prof. Daniel Gordis of very important spokesperson, the Jewish community in Israel today coming from thoroughly through Thursday right so Bob Jesus calls us to love God with our hearts and our mind and he talks about the father looking for people who worship him in spirit and truth and tells the religious leaders that they were mistaken because they didn't understand the Scriptures or the power of God.
So word and spirit go hand-in-hand.
That's that's how you live your life you have a PhD. You can do advanced scholarly work you at home in that world with the detailed footnotes and endnotes and meticulous study and exegete in the text and going to the lexicons at the same time you love the things of the Holy Spirit. And when you were teaching in Pensacola on the tabernacle and the manifest presence of God and the Holy Spirit came. It was in response to the word so why is it in your own life, you don't find a contradiction between heart and mind word and spirit. It's my love for the Scriptures that give me a love for the things of the spirit. Because the Scriptures describe it, and even commanded. You know be filled with the spirit so the world of the Bible is a world full of the wonders of experiencing God and as long as were founded in the truth and not you are basing our doctrine in our life on, you know, a theory of experiences than this is something that God intends.
According to his word for his people. So what is it me to fellowship with the Holy Spirit be just that that companionship of ghetto interaction with him heart to heart you know there's so many verses about this, but the love of God is poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, praying in the spirit praying in tongues you know, hearing his voice. Having that sense of his presence being secure in his love its experiential and word-based and you don't get one without the other you know it it it's not one of the other. It's both Jesus when he was walking with the disciples on the road to Emmaus refused to be identified without the explanation of the Scriptures. He was physically there.
But he did not show himself. He prevented the way I understand the text as he was ultimately preventing them from seeing him until he could explain that this was the way the Messiah was supposed to come according to the law and the Prophets and the Psalms and then once that was done and he was with them and fellowship, breaking bread he was revealed. He wants experiential continuity with the word so it's not one or the other. It's simply both and then later in the chapter. Luke 24 after opening his disciples minds they can understand the Scriptures as the messianic prophecy says in 2449 stay in the city of Jerusalem and through endued with power from on high, so they had all the years of mentoring's with Jesus.
There were eyewitnesses to who he was, what he taught his death, his resurrection, he did open their minds and send Scriptures, but they were not equipped to go until they receive the power the spirits could so so Bob you talk in the book time to bill you talk, talk about wine and wine skins explained that in and why do we need new wineskins for the new one. Yes, will you know God designed his people a certain way and it's that whole visitation to habitation contrast and concept. God will visit the houses that we build for him, but he will inhabit the house that he builds through us when we build in partnership with him with his wisdom so that's what were after.
So another illustration is the wineskin. If we want to happen you know contained the have God as the resident presents not just the visiting presence, according to Ephesians 3 then it requires us to fashion the wineskin, or to build the house his way really allowing him to build through us. That's what I'm after. In the book difficult books about right.
So we have the analogy of family so mom though we were all brought into the world is with the biological mother and father and the ideal setting is to be raised in that environment with biological mother and father and if the brothers and sisters. They grow together.
How does the physical image of the family work itself out in us being the family of God. Obviously God is our heavenly father, we don't have a heavenly mother right so right when I try to break it down that way but lived out in community here, as believers, as children of God. How does the image of the family tie in with the image of the local church only gives us those those qualities in those principles, you know that to the father. We are a household of children so were all children and you know in in Messiah. It's interesting in our relationship to Jesus. We are the bride, and Paul expounds on that right in the middle of his instructions to the natural families so it's not an absolutely perfect analogy because you don't have the one father and the one mother in a community other than God himself as the father and the Holy Spirit is not the mother, but there are some maternal qualities to his presence in our midst and then were all the children so it's it's not perfect because of that, but it still gives us the qualities of and the principles of organic covenant. The bond of love created by the spirit all right organic covenant. The bond of love created by the spirit right.
So much so, that sounds so abstract how I live it out.
Obviously that's was fleshed out in the book time to build, but how does the family live live the set. How is the family of God live this out together. So as you have intentionally gone about building your house church community. The Lord's community that that is giving stewardship over the Kings people you even begin very intentional about it and very organic about its own assumable people have to catch it. They have to live it out and we talked about it over the years and you just always going to batter the certain Weisinger takes time to bear fruit and to get to a certain point, so organically bonded the spirit. How do we bond of peace. How do we live this out. What is like a normal week or months. Look look like for folks in your community you that that's a great question.
One thing I would say, in principle, is at least try. You know it's the intentional building of spiritual family, but for for one example. You know the meeting that I was a part of this past Sunday.
It started at around 10 now I got there a little late so full disclosure but it started at 10 we were leaving at about 330. You know there was a lot of singing together. There was a lot of exultation prophecy in Scripture. There is a lot of prayer.
Then there was a meal and a lot of fellowship that takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of work, there's no magic formula.
It doesn't even take terrific insight is just a matter of understanding these principles of building community and trying spending the time and the effort all in the spirit to do to do it to actually do it.
So, other other churches in our work will have men or women Bible studies during the week. Other times there's just specialized groups that they just meet together in the morning early in the morning. Last night I was part of a meeting where there was exhortation there was Scripture reading. There was prophecy there was confession of sin, you just get together and do it and then you overflow from that to reach your neighborhoods in your city so it's again being intentional just like building your own family and we could all be living the same house but running different directions so is this intentionality about it and then it's not some perfect formula.
It's a marriage just being the people of God together again friends. The book a time to build revival the church and God's eternal purpose.
Robert J. Gladstone forward by Dr. Michael Brown yes so again as I said in the forward to the book I've been waiting for the book for years because I knew we got a deposit involved, but Bob did not have this ambition, I got a get out to the whole world to get millions of copies out his he was sober living this out together in community and and that's the fruit of it, but the nice thing is that we hear from grads on a regular basis. Some are struggling.
Some are hurting. We care about them and want to help them as much as we can, no matter what church fellowship group.
You have a some units were hard times and some people are going to have their dreams. It seems for the moment � the pieces and go to be there to pick them up together and get into the next step. At the same time we hear from some who were bearing amazing fruit, and its it's it's striking to see the bottom, go to the Philippines couple years ago and met the students in our ministry school. We had three graduating classes at far school of Ministry in the Philippines and we got schools in other parts of of the world and in in Holland and in Cameroon and Italy and and other schools not with the fire name but I remember coming up to the to the students and they said hello grandfather said we are the spiritual children of your spiritual children so Bob you and Gina just become grandparents.
So congratulations on on that. Your grandson with with daughter and son-in-law in Wales right now.
Hopefully making their way to the states in the future, but what's it like to see the children of your children spiritually spiritual grandchildren that sends out very much fruit absolutely amazing and it's just another aspect of God's heart to his multi generational your passing on the faith to our children and our grandchildren. That's a blessing. I pray for for our natural family very often. Just amazing.
Yes. So friends bearing long-term fruit is what it's about revival is awesome. I pray for it. I see God for regularly. One of the see God flow through and bring awakening and change to the church of America in the church and other nations, but by divine intent. That is for a purpose to take us to a certain place is not the end-all. From there we must build keep the fires of revival, burning our hearts, but we must build strategically. Bob's new book a time to build will help if your pastor church leader. By all means read it. It's okay within the template of what were you stew will refill God's call as to how can we incorporate more of this individual believers. Read it you'll be enriched and help go to the Kings people.or/will write back with you tomorrow. Right here on the line of fire