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Cessationism Call-in Day

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
June 8, 2022 5:30 pm

Cessationism Call-in Day

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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June 8, 2022 5:30 pm

The Line of Fire Radio Broadcast for 06/08/22.

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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network today is cessation is to call in the call in and give me your best biblically-based argument as to why the sign gives the charismatic gifts are not for today for the light a fire with your host scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for more savvy and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get him a lot of fire and now there's your host Dr. Michael Brown time in the word of God today as I have said before, as I wrote in authentic fire.

I am so scriptural and therefore charismatic based on the explicit testimony of the Bible.

In particular, the New Testament believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including tongues, prophecy, healing, or for today based on the Bible, whether ever saw it happen once or million times is not the big issue to me. The big issue is what the word of God says welcome to broadcast Michael Brown, so good to be with you that here's a medical argument, ground rules, 866-34-TRUTH 866-348-7884.

I'm only taking calls on this topic. If you agree with my position. If you identifies continuation Esther Pentecostal charismatic, no need for you to call in with your Pro gifts for today argument. This is for my friends my brothers and sisters who differ with me here. The question is not whether extremes in the charismatic movement through extremes and every move. The question is not, are there counterfeits there counterfeits everywhere. The so the question the question is what does Scripture say based on the Bible as our final authority and source of truth should be expect gifts of healing today should we expect tongues, interpretation, prophecy today. Could these be normative meaning happening in the lives of believers around the world.

Not everything in the life of every believer it's never like that gifts of the spirit we distributed by the Spirit for the common good one with this gift another with another gift, but should we expect these things today based on the Bible again, 866-34-TRUTH now before you get your calls. Let me just give you a little background as to why I'm doing this today.

What prompted me most recently was a colleague sent me a link to a documentary funds being raised for call cessation is an the moment I saw the that there is a trailer available. I said to myself. Much of the argument has been -1. Another was trying to make things that are happening today look better. Take the worst examples of things happened is a look at this little better this and then make the biblical case so there are some brothers on there that I've actually interacted with. I'm not playing clips from them so as to embarrass or derive in any way because I respect their sincerity, but suffice it to say that in the little clips. The biblical arguments that were being raised as a note that you can't be racing. This is a biblical argument is just it has no substance.

Motive the foundation at all and if you clips that were being played were so extreme. I mean one or two of them. I can guarantee you if you interviewed 300 million charismatic Pentecostals around the world as it have you ever seen anything like this in any service, 500 million that virtually all of us of what I've that's weird I'm there is anything like that ever we talk about so one rabbi once said it's not right to take the best of your religious tradition and compare it with the worst of someone else's sure the real comparison, then let's look at the best route, charismatic, custom compared to the best route in the secessionist movement endlessly to those in the best exegesis, etc. refocus your subscription now.

You're the reason this is on my mind is because I did a radio debate with pastor and theologian Doug Wilson at the invitation of Justin Brierley and the unbelievable podcast in England. Just a wonderful broadcast just as been doing for many many years bringing together intelligent, respectful dialogue between people of different positions, a debate irrevocably on their another rabbi about Mr. prophecy of Jesus being the Messiah addicted James White's done it many times he's debated and she right there on the meaning of justification by faith. Maybe a Catholic versus a Protestant that it may be a believer versus an atheist, but was very interesting in that discussion was with all respect to the pastor Wilson.

We had great dialogue and interaction and it was fully respectful but what struck me was I was a skinny explicit Scripture.

The Bible says this. The Bible says this. The Bible says this. The Bible says this right and they're pretty basic versus new that that Paul urges us to pursue the spiritual gifts, especially prophecy, and not to prevent tongues and elsewhere. He says don't despise prophecy dumping out the spirits fire test everything. Hold to the good, and it's explicit and were told to do it and nowhere else within the word. We told not to do.

In other words, nowhere is that resend and the verse that was never mentioned prescriptions 13 when the perfect comes and perfect will pass away. For some, referring to the closing of the canon of Scripture is a bizarre interpretation that's relatively unknown through church history is referring to the return of G-7 context makes it so clear it. In any case, there's never anywhere where Paul exhorts us do this do this do this and then to stop doing that. There was this one little plank and argument just my own view and and after this we can go to the phones right here is my own view.

Very simply, if we were debating Calvinists and you lock to people in a room. Susan two people in separate rooms. They have no background in the Bible, but they read over and over and over and over and over they read the Bible hundred times over and over and over and over. I believe that some of them would lean towards Calvinism thinking that God predestines a certain way and others would lean toward Arminianism and I was I could see why different ones would have their different views.

Of course, overwhelmingly I would say the Arminian view is correct, but I'd say okay here's why you came up with those different views if it's about the end times.

Describe the end times was going to happen.

I think doing a lot of different scenarios. The people just read the Bible on the road.

Frankly, my own view, I don't mean this to insult or demean anyone as honest in column with your best arguments. I don't believe that if you locked hundred people in separate rooms and they read the Bible, day and night cover to cover their fluent Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic and they only read the Bible, the church history.

The current experience. I believe they cannot secessionist.

I don't that's my own view right and I tried to become a cessation I was hostile to tongues and the things of the spirit late 70s really early 80s probably is what was the strongest. I tried to, but based on the Bible.

I couldn't close my views, you get to call and again scriptural argument, not experiential scriptural argument. So if you prayed and fasted for some ceiling and they were healed. That doesn't prove what the Bible says. Conversely, if you prayed and fasted for some ceiling that is improved with the Bible fifth, we will make this Bible based or best Bible-based argument why secessionism is the correct position right out. Let's go to Michael and bourbon a Illinois welcome to the line of fire. Hello Michael, hey bro, yeah I I am not a cessation is but it soundswhat is your based or people falling out backwards in the Bible is limited space I have that's unrelated to the subjects or with all respect you is unrelated. My question is make here alone will be specific as I can try this again I'm inviting you to call in and make the best biblical argument you can that the gifts of the spirit.

The New Testament describes tongues feeling prophecy. Words of wisdom, knowledge, etc. that they are not to be normative today, not what is this happening charismatic Pentecostal churches. Roses will follow shape. Those are the issues like this thesis also.

Thanks her, but this is. This can help us clarify things with this try this again we go to Ray in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Welcome to the line of fire fighter hey very well thank you. My question is, in light of the cursor what people look for healing don't get healed what what!

You offered okay so later, not by just didn't answer your question, but may I ask this, how does that tie in with what I'm asking you to to present those. Can you present an argument to be based on Scripture as to why we should not be seeing healing miracles today. Okay well I heard of your show of your topic right here in the car. Scriptural backing but I what I'm asking. I believe that there is healing but how do you apologize to people or witness to the healing happens when you pray for healing to them and it doesn't happen right okay so I'll answer the question is been put out its important question in your office is important to many that have not been healed okay number one. Even in the New Testament.

Not everybody was healed told of true FEMA sick and the leaders. Many would say Paul had the gift of healing on the island of Malta asked 28 everyone was healed right.

But he left true FEMA sick Melita's that's that's a second Timothy four verse 25 he tells Timothy to drink a little wine for his frequent stomach else elements, so whatever reason Paul didn't just lay hands on Timothy and and heal him, and many believe that when he came to Galatia. He was physically sick and described that some even believe that he had a thorn in the flesh.

There was a physical sickness this and not my own view, but some believe that so even in the New Testament, even in the ministry of Paul, not everyone was healed right. That's the first thing the second thing is we have explicit promises that in Jesus we have died to sin and now are free from it and it would still struggle with sin. In other words, there are things promised in the New Testament, but we don't always see the full realization in this world. So if I pray for someone and they're not healed I first encourage them that what matters most is their own relationship with the Lord. This doesn't mean that God doesn't love them, and even in the midst of the sickness they can grow in grace.

However, because we have these promises for healing really keep knocking and asking and there are many things in the Bible that don't happen without us really aggressively pursuing them. Hence the exhortation from Jesus in Luke 18 to pray with persistence. Sometimes we just have to keep contending and pressing in and believing until the answer comes in any event, we do understand is only temporary, and that everyone will die and ultimately your goal is resurrection bodies okay. In any case, I am waiting arguments from the Bible, not from experience from the Bible supported the secessionist view phones are open from 904 here over the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown that I am not making a judgment on cessation is based on who calls doesn't call arguments or aren't raised liturgy may be a biblical scholar you may be a professor at a cessation of the seminary.

You may be a well-educated pastor and you say I'm not putting arguments.

Filaments can call in a show and there's a proper setting, so I'm not saying if we don't get a single call with a single good argument that shows how bankrupt the position is my point is four months are open to make your argument, 866348788 for further back to the phones. Ms. Camillo example of why I say that the New Testament plainly gives us the understanding that these things or for today for that day and for today until Jesus comes and of the full debates on this and you get a full statement on a inauthentic fire of the chapter so Scripture and therefore charismatic or if you just want to dig in healing.

This is a very technical but academic book, Israel's divine healer you dig into that. First Thessalonians chapter 5, beginning in verse 12 we ask your brothers to respect those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish interestingly very highly in love because their work. Be at peace among yourselves. Your brothers admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all. See that no one pays anyone evil for evil but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone. Rejoice always, pray without ceasing.

Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything.

Hold fast what is good, stay from every form of evil owners. This is prophecies just part of life is not some special category will you pull that part out. This is just counsel everyday life in the Lord always different directives.

This is part of it. That's the way it reads in the New Testament. Nothing exceptional as part of normal spiritual life and service all right. Let us go to Eddie and Madison, Connecticut. Welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Robert, thank you Dr. Roberts caused a lot of fights are Bible beautiful pop in my mom argument is always listed. If you know what you're saying that you scriptural after I value your physically for that you think would be having this argument for you with.

Evidence of it.

The problem is worth thing about them and that the fear that the right response longer like they were not the unit why we looking on the rock while my going to have to be a guy got deal. I don't think nothing we have CNN you have secular new annual words.

The church were to go so it would.

So you see what the Scriptures said what you'll see in you say this. Something might be wrong. I had to stop a million the public. I went to McDonald's right off the menu.

What that what I want around. I took my wife will they have where is it the place was both, even though it that they had the habit for me, like what they are but I know but where is okay go right so that's the key thing it says it, that's were starting the Scriptures explicitly say it right and I give you a couple examples in a moment. They do tell us to expect certain things that we understand that when Jesus was on the earth. There were exceptional miracles demonstrated he was the Messiah and and we don't read. For example, any of the apostles turning water into wine and only Peter walked on the water. Don't read that will walk on the water, etc. but there is a clear indication that miracles that he did work that he did.

We should be doing and that healing should be something we see it, at least with some regularity. Not every sickness can be looked called in the cold breeze in a week. That's just about healing itself a lot of issues. We have a because the junk we put our body, but if you're reading it in the Bible and it says expect ABC with OC ABC then we have three choices. One is Bible is not true.

Another is what must be something else going on that would be the secessionist view. It says it is not happening.

So the reasons for that and the third would be well then let's keep pressing into God until we see it. IM number three it says it then I'm gonna take hold of it until I see it. Look I see what the Bible says about the we were to live in the Lord and what the church is to look like Jesus prays for unity and were so distant from that yet a monkey pursuing so here's an example, the words of Jesus. Truly, truly, I say to you whoever believes in me check that phrase right and in Greek up the stew and they were just check out the English. Whoever believes in me, this go through the gospel. John see every time it occurs because it's always always always always always universal severed specifically for the apostles know this is whoever believes in me works that I do and excuse me. Whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do and greater works than these will he do because I'm going to the father. Now we know that around the world.

Miracles are taking place there well attested their lengthy books with list detailed documented miracles. Their peer-reviewed medical articles documented miracles so they are taking place. Eddie and you will just have to go to Africa for when I've solicited testimonies on Facebook and said did you experience something in life that Dr. still explained is a miracle and when I believe I was amazed at the responses we got, but are we seeing as much as we should know therefore I keep pressing into God and saying you promised, but something is missing. I do that in many, many other areas of spiritual authority.

That's what you and the folks in your Bible study should do and I love the fact he been there all these years of having these great discussions so so cute. Let's determine first what the Bible says this country agreement on that and then from there. From there it's okay.

What we seem is more and you explore from there prefers to truncate.

We should be since I give one other example right and this is from Jacob James five familiar passage, but again I just want you to hear this so you realize this is just part of everyday life.

Part of that the experience of the body is anyone among you suffering that and pray. Such as, for then I was on ongoing. Is anyone cheerful the same price was a just for then Ronco ongoing is anyone among you sick and call the elders of the church, let them pray over him, anointing with oil in the name of the Lord in the prayer of faith will save the one was sick from a whole week while the women sick and will raise him up if he is committed sins would be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power and it's working because often there is just some that you have write enough one pastor at a mini debate was on the radio once said we do this regular church because the Bible says that but we never see anyone healed so that would get me say okay that something is missing somewhere.

Let's delve into that, let's find out why, but there's not the slightest indication is that a hint anywhere in the Bible that was just for them if that was just for then then so is is anyone among you suffering that and pray. Is anyone cheerful Lansing price. Note, those are just part of normal life in the body are. So again when I'm asking for is a scripturally based argument demonstrating that the sign gifts, healing miracles, tongues, prophecy that they are not for today based on the Bible, not based on contemporary experience based on the Bible. Let's try again.

All right 866-34-TRUTH we go to Eugene and Ford who walked shoot God in Arkansas vocabulary eat Binky pronounce it correctly this time while I got it yeah yeah yes there so if I may be frank, I think a reason why you're having such a hard time finding people who can present a biblical argument is because there simply is anyone there there distantly is a monster and on but I know my question is heavily related to the subject. This is something I struggle with before and you have shared this yourself that there seems to be some time. Secondary motivations for believing in the doctrine of sensation is for me it's like an academic intimidation because I read the Bible, I see no indication by a lot of the Bible scholars that I follow that I study under that. I love that I respect and that I don't want to ignore because they believe differently. It it kind of hard to stand with total assurance if you knotted me like there seems to be well you know that Eugene got out he got overcome that you got overcome that your peers will and again with all respects are. I want to gain more calls that don't fulfill the guidelines okay because I'm want to give time to people to bring their Bible arguments against cessation of my position is the run-on was all respects my friends who differ is my position right. Like I said, I think we have a much better to be.

But, this Mormonism on the Calvinist have a much greater debate about end times issues though I have my own views about the end times. When it comes to secessionism based on Scripture say this if on a very very regular basis. We were all seeing the circles that were in gifts of how the spirit.

Manifest the will be having this argument knowingly be raising it so what happened is people normally raised in a certain faith tradition study within the tradition within their tradition. These things are not happening is not even an argument to them or they see negative extremes. They got burned by negative streams, but it's rare. If ever to be candid rare if ever, that I ran into some of it was Pentecostal charismatic with some good experiences with the Lord seeing God move and who, based on Scripture alone change their view, but I see the opposite all the time people based on Scripture alone become a continuation is if they have experienced things of the spirit, yet quite so little respect callers. I'm being very specific because of phone lines open. Give me your best argument against continuation is from the Bible. Thanks for the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown on fire. 866-34-TRUTH, eight, 784 my 1991 book. Whatever happened to the power of God, which is the question, is the charismatic church slain in the spirit down for the count. In that book.

I have a chapter asking the question has the gift of healing hit a brick wall effect pastor John MacArthur quoted me favorably in his strange fire book saying here's a charismatic believer saying something is missing. Yes, something is missing in many cases, we should see more there there some gifts of the spirit that seem to be in operation, more a gifts of healing seen in operation seeing God work through colleagues of mine in extraordinary ways.

Read many document the testimonies met people recklessly healed but I still believe you should be seeing things more. That's of the question. The question is what does Scripture say and if our lives or experiences not lining up with Scripture, rather bring Scripture down. We seek to be raised up lifted up to the scriptural norm.

So still going forward.

Still at it with all respect all the calls so far, no one yet has done what I've been asking for. Again, doesn't mean you're on your none out there, but for whatever reason, maybe you can call missing show. Now you get it later or you just don't want to call Ron controlling the light, whatever. I'm not making a judgment simply saying the phone lines are open and I would love to hear from someone who can say okay here based on the Bible was written in the Bible. Based on this I do not believe these things are for today, 866-348-7884 before go back to the phones. Here are some interesting things from church history. Now again, my argument is not based on history. My argument is based on was the Bible say, but many have the impression that when the apostles died. Then the miraculous gifts ceased. Of course that's patently patently excuse me, untrue me just give you a few quick examples here. Justin Martyr in his famous dialogue was triple trifle is written around A.D. 164 the prophetical gifts remain with us even to the present time.

Justin Martyr, one of the most respected of the early church leaders and then Irenaeus of Lyons, against heresies, 180, again respected early church leader with which he said Irenaeus, for some do. Certainly and cruelly drive out devils so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe and join themselves to the church. This is happening around the world to this day. Others have for knowledge of things to come.

They see visions, and other prophetic expressions of the still heal the sick by laying their hands upon and there made whole EA. Moreover, as I said the dead even have been raised up and remained among us for many years.

We also hear many breads in the church should possess prophetic gifts and through the spirit speak all kinds of languages, 180, right. So this is almost 100 years after the death of the last apostle and hundred 50 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus is what was the kind enclosed. It will all hang out. There's the argument that these were sign gifts that were given to the apostles. The apostles are long gone and the gifts are continuing just to other brothers and sisters. That's the whole thing.

They were never just for the apostles. There were certain apostolic authority that was given in certain unique access of power that may have worked through the apostles poses exactly with the on second printing in the sink with his 12 when he speaks of the signs of the above, impossibly wrought through him and all perseverance, but certainly we see in the New Testament that prophecy is for the outpouring spirit on all flesh sons and daughters old and young, seeing visions, having dreams. This is part of the life of the body right to be some of the Scripture in a moment. So Dr. Brown take more calls well only recall that was waiting is gone and did from I could tell from the description did not have an argument to place half got literally every phone line open, and nobody calling as it is, it is.

It is interesting is that it Friday on Q&A show every phone lines fill when we get an open line and no say we had an open line or two to let you know that I'm looking at a blank screen. Every phone line marked idle.

So please, somebody, really somebody out there is a here's a strong biblically-based drawing for sensations I written this book written that book. Here's a cessation scholar rate of secessionist commentary written somewhere out there and for you geniuses, but I'm intimidated past MacArthur feels this way respect past MacArthur but just like in different with me. It is not a PhD in Semitic languages.

How can I differ with me like I do for them is written, there is a mobile, you can do that, who knows more than Craig Keener.

You know, in terms of New Testament scholarship in Bible background Ben Wetherington there both continuations suit can't make that the argument who knows more.

That's known for all the students were all just learning religious babes in terms of who God is, religious servants, that's it. Okay, look at what Basil the great says three 5350 is no regular closing of Canada's is 350.

The Spirit enlightens all inspires prophets, gives wisdom to lawmakers, consecrate priests and powers kings perfects the just exalts the prudent is active in gifts of healing, gives life to the dead.

Freeze those in bondage transformers and two adopted sons. This is what the Holy Spirit does in an ongoing way and so Augustine is there anymore respected church leader after Paul that Augustine not agree with everything Augustine wrote, but certainly highly highly respected church leader writes in your forth into the fifth century. Augustine, in his early writings is Morton Kelsey says stated quite specifically that Christians are not to look for continuance of the healing gift, but he decidedly changed his views while completing his magnum opus, the city of God. Thus he wrote this is Augustine that I'm quoting you ready once I realized how many miracles were occurring in our own day in which were so like the miracles of old and also how wrong it would be to allow the memory of these marvels of divine power to perish from among our people is only two years ago that the keeping of records was begun here in hippo and already at this writing we have nearly 70 attested miracles. So based on his experience, he changed his theology when I'm saying is based on the Bible we should look for a different experience so that I years and years ago when I was first on radio so scumbag to be 13 years. I did a show filling in for my friend Stu Epperson one day and I asked folks to to call in and give biblical arguments for healing against healing etc. us up but I don't want to hear your experience. I just want to hear arguments one after another called and said I didn't believe in healing but a lot of the missions trip and when I saw the miracles that I believe and why.

After Leslie okay I was looking for letters is looking for, Bible-based, Bible-based, but somebody said I didn't believe it. Then I saw it and I look the doors a will there is there is, it is what we should be expecting.

Okay Romans 12. Another example and waiting for some callers to to populate or screen here and since I got him on the right back to the phones. Okay Romans chapter 12 and is is wrong for me to ask to make a case based on the Bible, rather than experience is the wrong thing to do. Romans chapter 12 as I pull things up in Greek and English and my accordance Bible software. So Paul is saying being verse three. For by the grace given to me. I said everyone among you not to think of himself or how they got to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned for us in one body we have many members and members do not all have the same function, so we though many one body of Christ, and individually members one of another.

Having says just the life of the body. Different believers right how things play out okay. Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them. If prophecy, in proportion to our faith.

If service and are serving when he teaches his teaching resources exhortation which contributes generosity with who leads with zeal for this acts of mercy, cheerfulness.

So prophecy is just like giving a greeting like serving exhorting is just another grace as a gift and it's just part of life in the spirit part of life in the body. Nothing exceptional. All right let us go to John in the John John I. Looking at the screen as the New Yorker's unexpectedly just go for it and it says you have an argument but we lost to John what would happen. Buddy try to reconnect man I'm waiting for the argument of eagerly waiting is the ability of prophecies that it is about okay that's excessive or question it still doesn't explain why Paul increases. This is part of the life of the body to expect that this is just part of normal right part of the regular life in the Lord. Okay, that's a fair question and I dressed it I dressed in my in my debate with Doug Wilson when it came up memory you have tons of prophecies in the Old Testament that are part of the Bible that schools the prophets should know how I got only two of the chapters recorded of his prophecies, but elsewhere talks about him exhorting and speaking to the people. So not everything that God speaks as part of the Bible, the vast majority will be spoken through history is not part of the Bible in all the prophecies that took place in the early church and for centuries that recorded is not part of the Bible.

But there were prophecies so there is a big difference between for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in the parish but have eternal life without holding his normal see the Lord right or of this the will of God. Even your sanctification is led as a massive difference between that the Bible God's word to all people right that versus as you praying about a job situation moving to another state. Some of those notices hate on the what this means with the Lord showed me that you're going to be moving to this particular statement taking taken his new job opportunities that many thinkers are you kidding me I was praying about these two said this a was the Bible does not. There is no competition between them. In any case, try to go back to your calls lives of the bricks. The writer to line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I Mike in Gainesville Florida. Thanks so much for calling the line of fire. Go ahead well appreciate your scholarship got word argument that grown-up article. My background, I church I grew up in church will Lord you got my development. My argument is was actually why not match what okay not to the quarterback of oh, it would a unknown office but no bunker years. Zero. Anything the gospel of the day better in a telephone but that actually develop and review 14 will Paul do you think Paul is using a hyperbole is a thoughtful click on the mend of men and of angels by the bit that is all I would verbal language that gift that will recorded in Matthew is not on par with the date and the church.

Why is but I felt that the knowledge that it also argument for 14 is meant to edify the church different department at about church wide.particular gift is only meant to edify the plea. It is in contradiction to what Paul lays out so this is a great question. Thank you sir. There are examples I've heard many of them even from cessation us will cessation his friend who witnessed it of people speaking foreign languages by the inspiration of the spirit today. Let's put that aside. Okay, I have are examples. That's never happened to me but let's put that aside and just focus on the unintelligible language. So here's what Paul says about in first Corinthians 14 for he who speaks in a tongue, speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the spirit so if no one understands you that you're not speaking a foreign language right that's the first thing you're speaking to God. So this is what we call a prayer language in which you had the first thing and asked to but nor does the New Testament ever say that's what happened in acts eight or 10 or 19. Doesn't say that they heard foreign languages and people heard the foreign languages.

Rather, they spoke in tongues and ex-19 in the next 10 and then Paul deals with it and explains what it is not speaking to men but to God right for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the spirit and then this the one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, a process build up the church that I want you all speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy in the system for bid tongues. Some of unit answer then you can you can back okay so number number one no one understands but you need a gift of the Spirit understand called interpretation number two were talking to God not to Mansell that I can be an earthly foreign language. Number three. How does it edify me if I just speak in a foreign language that are going to stand for 10 minutes.

Some speaking in the spirit to God in a language that God understands so clearly when spoken of here is exactly what we've been experiencing up for for many many years without experience were 50 years is praying in the spirit communing with God and by building myself up in private. Now I'm able to come and be a blessing to the church will not work at a party group build build one thoughtful I think that would actually go gamble.build the church building to hang on the were exhorted to build ourselves up execs it goaded you 20, build yourselves up in the most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit were exhorted and and what Paul said about himself. I think I speak in tongues more than all of you. So he wasn't doing that in public presented in private so why did he speak in tongues so much. It was a bad practice and what is it wise it a gift of the Spirit. If it's a bad practice and have you build yourself up if you're speaking a foreign language that you don't understand Mr. praying by the spirit to God thing that I believe not bigger. When Cornelius spoke.

Why did Peter stay open on like the recessive adjustment is a supernatural language. I understand how your reading answer right, but he just says the same when they receive the spirit we received the spirit doesn't say they spoke in tongues just the same way we spoke in tongues with they receive the spirit just like we did and began to speak. Remember to the speakers they know what they were saying they were to speak in the language and and I've had that have with friends about. They've delivered what they thought was a message in tongues and some we get saved so you just preach to me in my dialect see Mike that the key thing is again to reiterate, it's a good thing.

It is not understood by anyone. No one understands. You need a gift to the spirit, not a translator, but the gift of spirit of interpretation to understand.

Paul spoke in tongues. When any of them were called to build ourselves up. I print on for hours and hours often before a minister because out of that I can minister to people and bless people I get up from praying in tongues and and start writing books I can minister out of that to others so read through first Corinthians 14 a few times are in and give it some serious thought to thank you, thank you for the argument. I appreciated and it's a fair argument.

That's my answer right let us go to travel. Welcome to the quantifier in the ground so I am by preventing a basic argument that because the gift of apostleship has ended a euro per Ephesians 220, but because vector prevented and starting to get there. It would be possible.

Especially, you know, when you see that in at Whitby apostle come Bay for bringing the fine gifts with them in and people like you Tony that Peter like that officer prevented the Army but find it anymore, especially because you have the completed Canon. You don't need any more work for me to be 20 men prior darkness on the and then when you have Corinthians 13. I continue to look at that nearly literally means it will, but rather it could possibly be a popular all gone now. The no longer there.

Thank you thank you and Thomas tries a great New Testament scholar. All all respect to him in his work, but even if he does not use the argument that it's the closing account of the Scriptures is unruly, insupportable first 2013. So here's what I would breaks out in acts to the spirit is put out on the hundred 20 and then Peter gets up and preaches) Joel is is this is the outpouring on all flesh your sons and your daughters will promises every body is anything but just the apostle's number one but as I get to ask six you got Stephen follow the spirit, working miracles, acts eight Philip so these are deacons right.

These are servants there waiting on tables you have. Acts eight. The secret healed demons leave through the preaching of Philip right, you've got later his daughters are our prophetesses so the spirit is working through other people. That's the norm.

Prescriptions 12 is quite explicit. This is given for the body for the common good is completely separate from apostles. It separate from the path of from from profits plus based on Ephesians 4 you can make a strong argument that apostles and prophets continue until today because it says these are put in the body to reach a certain point, we are nowhere near that point there for you would say distiller. But even if you said apostles and prophets was just first century and ended the fact of the matter is that the gifts of the Spirit for the common good.

I read Romans 12 prophecies just there with other gifts right James Jacob five. The prayer faith for the sake that should be something happening normally prescriptions 12.

This is just the life of the body right there are varieties of gifts, with the same spirit, the varieties of service with the same or the rights and activities but is the same God who empowers them all in everyone to each is given manifestation of the spirit for the common good for was given to the spirit of wisdom. Another of dollars that we get to the end of first Corinthians 12. We did this the end of first Corinthians 12 that you are the body of Christ individually members of it in God's appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophecy. Those were just for the first century or so different without the font set it, third teachers, that's for today, then miracles will that get mixed and then gifts of healing that can extend then helping, administrating Evers because tongues okay so that's a hound you get teachers mixed in with no miracles just a feeling that helping, administrating the various kinds of tongues are all apostles, no role prophets no, I'm a meeting in the note to his question. Oral teachers note all work miracles note offices gifts. If you know do all speak in tongues of all interpret no earnestly desire the greater gifts and then this is for the body just for the Corinthians in general. And then when you get to the end of first Corinthians 14 Paul is giving a picture of an orderly worship service, median home when you come together you trust him lesson revelation of the tongue interpretation that all things be done for building up, he goes through the guidelines here and then he kisses his exhortation as he closes out so I brothers earnestly desire prophesy my brothers, my brothers and sisters and do not forbid speaking in tongues, but all things should be done decently and in order.

Okay apologies to Steve Jeff of you probably just able to call in now. Remember waiting, but I had 45 minutes before the argument was for the scriptural argument was present. So thanks to Mike for redoing that the present that argument. Everything else was based on an because we never got to what we will see certain things happening why their abuses, so this is not a debate here, but if you're a cessation of scholar Prof. theologian like to have an organized, formal debate with me on the subject as of offered to do for many years.

Let's do it for the glory of God in the edifying of the body for 15 minutes from now will write back here on YouTube asked her to Brown with a week for you to chat another program powered by the Truth Network


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