Am I Part of “NAR”?

Were going to revisit some things about so-called nor new apostolic Reformation set the record straight on my leader in this or not stock for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry getting to the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH. Jim is Dr. Michael Brown hard ground today and we are going to dig in deep and bring clarity and bring light and hopefully for the record straight on a few controversial issues once and for all. Michael Brown welcome to the broadcast 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 if you feel I have not clarified certain issues important you that relate to today's subject matter want to challenge a point that I'm making please by all means take advantage of the opportunity to call and now tomorrow, God willing, we will be hearing from a couple that I've never spoken with from Australia with the Christ alignment ministry and they are the ones involved with what some people claim is a Christian version of Taro cards. In other words there promoting some type of witchcraft. If you been called, which is in doing it.

They say they're bringing the gospel to the new agers so they reached out to me when they saw that the subject came up on the broadcast of said I've not tracked down with her doing it has been something I followed was interested in pricks of cost of going after BM stick my head in the sand, etc. well be on the air when find out together. I'll ask them direct questions, but please if you have heard bad things about their ministry. If you think it's not a ministry at all and some promotion of witchcraft. It's a mixture please by all means, do your best to schedule time to call in tomorrow so you can raise your concerns raise your questions and then they will speak for themselves right 86634 nor the so-called new apostolic Reformation, a term that was coined by the late Dr. Peter Wegner what is it.

Is it a network with hundreds of millions of charismatics and Pentecostals around the world. This represents the worst abuses of the charismatic Pentecostal movement. It is isn't unified in any way does it have a joint leadership, MI. Part of it is true what is false. So what brings you back to the subject well I dealt with it a lot year ago something like that kept coming up and dealt with it, interact with different folks on different sides of the issue, but this past week I was ministering in California have the joy of ministry with my friend a Tom Barr, my younger Israeli friend who is one of the leaders and one for Israel doing an amazing job getting the gospel out in Israel and around will become the gospel in Hebrew is regaining the gospel in Arabic to the Muslim world as well.

So he reposted the testimony that I did with one for Israel and then later that they sent me comments like you got a look at this. Look at some of these Facebook comments where unsubscribing from your from your Facebook page atoll because you are now working with, nor Dr. Michael Brown as part of Nomar and Lars working with the Pope and this and that so I thought okay right let's let's and of course he sent to me with a smile, but let's do our best to separate fact from fiction. I would be as clear as I can and then I'm going to go to one website when I was looking for different website definitions last night. Different Christian websites and things like that. I found one from announcement critic of, nor that describes exactly with the chief characteristics of nor churches are according to him, so to go through this list and I'll tell you who's in a moment I would go through that list and tell exactly where I stand on each of the issues alright so here's the deal. I will be black-and-white clear in terms of what I believe and what I don't believe and then I'll expose what I believe are the errors surrounding this description of so-called nor parcel number one Peter Wegner coined the term some years back, looking at church growth movements around the planet in China and Africa, Latin America, United States different parts of the world disparate unrelated movements that he saw were out of the normal denominational structure, and he saw that they were restoring certain things from the New Testament that other generations may not have seen us prominently, etc. and he then dubbed if this is him as a professor is a missed geologist, dubbing it the new apostolic Reformation so ate a general term. Talk about church from 100 years ago churches don't even know each other different movements that is just a description.

He put on most don't use it the way that he was using. Then, more specifically, Peter Wegner spearheaded an organization bringing together different apostolic leaders difficult apostles bringing them together and leading this. He then referred to this. More specifically, is a new apostolic Reformation. Or you could say this was that the spearhead of new apostolic Reformation was never part of that organization. I agree with certain things. Peter Wegner said and disagree with other things. Peter Wegner said, however, there is now a term largely used by critics used by outsiders to describe what they see as something join together these very Pentecostal charismatic churches in a formal way.

Something in a formal way with formal leadership. Some think in a more informal organic way because you get different perspectives from different critics, etc. they put this all together and they call it nor and wherever you have charismatic abuses they get lumped in there. We have diminutive theology that could slip in their prosperity gospel that gets lumped in there and in things I would agree with within it.

Things I disagree with it and that's what I'm frequently accused of being a dental brand you're a part of Nomar and you deny the thing that the critics describe as, nor is there description. I would like it would be like me coming up with mud. In fact, we are for the first time announcing mud Maya ministries united in discernment all these different critics. These anti-charismatic critics and those who deny the gifts of the spirit for today and those who oppose the working to spread around the world and those who sit in those signs wonders and miracles back in the word of God today they are actually mud ministries united in discernment now now if you asked them. Are you part of mud their first response is what is mud. Were you talking about, and then when you press the part that we talk about. That's my response.

When the critics come up with their definition of nor throws a whole bunch of things together in one category through his leaders together. One category if you're friends with.

This will never work with this when therefore you're part of it that is the thing that I oppose that I differ with that.

I reject July believe that there apostles and prophets today.

Yes, I believe they been here through church history, we just haven't always recognized.

Do I believe they have the authority New Testament apostles.

No no no of course not believe there adding to the Bible God for bid, absolutely not.

I would separate from anyone that taught anything like that.

Do I believe the gifts empower the spirit for today absolutely MI word of faith, no.

Do I believe in the prosperity gospel now by believing diminutive theology now. I'm very happy to be very direct with all of those things nothing to hide, nothing to to be ambiguous about my party with Chris: no. There is no such thing in terms of what the critics, so you're the biggest illustrate this for right let's go to Wikipedia.

Wikipedia actually has a definition of nor the sum of things any authority to write new apostolic Reformation is a movement which seeks to establish 1/5 branch within Christendom.

That's a new one. The fifth branch distinct from Catholicism and Protestantism, Oriental orthodoxy and Eastern Orthodox. It goes on to say that the movie is largely associated with the Pentecostal and charismatic movements and advocates the restoration of the lost offices of church governance in the offices of Prophet and apostle inspired by the G 12 movement so that's another interesting thanks� Barbara G 12 Movement Certain Way of discipling and growing churches grows by recruiting pastors of independent congregations and not the nominal nondenominational churches by assimilating members from other churches through cell group meetings and by frequent church planting and rapid expansion including fine missions around the globe. So this is a complete amalgam of some truth, some error and some things that specifically were reflect the Wegner NAR movement.

Okay, let's look@answersingenesis.org right it calls nor the fastest growing counter Christian movement. Most haven't heard of. So it's it's a counter Christian movement and then what is nor first need to understand that, nor isn't an official organization, nor can it be characterized by a common creed. It is instead a loosely and often unaffiliated network of leaders who share a common vision goal for the visible church, to reestablish the office official titles and offices of prophets and apostles a minimum and appointed and anointed of authority of the church. This is their own churches, but all of us within the church is the bride of Christ. Some do believe that that is an accurate description of what some believe. I don't hold to the I reject the idea that there were supposed to be specific apostles that I have authority over all the church is much as I recognize apostolic ministries leading leading organizations, church planting movements things like that like that that lesson many times a look at Hudson Taylor and John Wesley is apostles with a would not of been called by those names. I look at Francis Schaeffer and Chuck Colson's prophets. Some would call and that some not. They want adding to the Bible nor modern-day apostles writing Scripture. Having that level of authority, but some some do agree with that description. There I don't it was II do not affirm that that is right so it's a right description of some churches that would be called apostolic and I differ with the idea that that you're supposed that everyone has to come under some apostle somewhere are these apostles and prophets are to govern the church reveal new truths that we all of us together can and must only shows reckless power to advance his kingdom on earth guilder plan you churches that believe in the gifts empower the spirit for today and say that that's essential for the furtherance of the gospel for that for the but they another do so: are they don't they're just Pentecostal charismatic churches. Again, this is the problem of grouping all this together here to give you one more God questions website. What is the new apostolic Reformation. It is in on biblical religious movement that emphasizes experience over Scripture not not my world. I don't work with anybody that emphasizes experience over Scripture, I supposedly work with all these nor leaders over the anybody that emphasized the expense of Scripture mysticism over doctrine same. There in modern-day apostles over the plain text about no no no that's that's just wrong but see that's the problem. This is how the nor is being described by the critics as you. You create a definition maybe take extreme statements from from extreme leaders in different places put all together and create this terrible monstrous entity called Nomar it's doing this terrible damage around the world and if you say you're not part of it lie friends. This is why you need to separate fact from fiction Hudson Taylor we come back to go through definitions of, nor the Scriptures is that I found on website go through point for point value if I agreed not then you tell me MI part of nor her cleansing and hits the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown God church right particular Pentecostal denomination, your your part of the Vineyard movement to your Calvary Chapel church. Are these things are more readily definable right you can safe your leaders. Here's the history of it here. Distinctive beliefs the this is being part of it or not. The problem with the so-called nor is the definition the weights being used today is the way critics put it together again.

It would be like me referring to mind M UD is ministries united for discernment saying anyone that's a critic of the charismatic movement is therefore part of it.

John MacArthur is as much a part of it is part Christian is a part of as much as Todd Friel and wretched are a part of it is much as some unknown critic to them in Malaysia or Indonesia or Venezuela.

Now some other all united and then all I have to do is find an extreme of one of these people saying something really bad or really out there.

Now some of their all responsible for their working together and if I tell them ditto your part a mod what is mod you see I do this all the time people saving Mike with this thing, nor what is not. What are they talking about. These are some of the alleged leaders aren't do I believe in fivefold ministry that yes I have since the 80s because I studied Scripture and said I believe this is biblical before ever heard; nor folks I work with for years like what's Nomar but we believed in fivefold ministry right 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 784 I got a stack of responses that on the go through where you answered my question on Facebook and Twitter according to your understanding what is nor "new apostolic Reformation and is good or bad, and why she will find these responses useful and enlightening okay but is willing to do. Let me go over to curio pirate Christian.com Korean examiner.

The six hallmarks of a nor church. This is June 7, 2016. So I assume it's up on the website from four years ago. They still hold to these things and is always searching for different sites that that set sought to give clarity. I found this I thought okay let let's use this definition by one of the critics use this definition and tell you whether a part of nor based on this definition here. Okay reviews.

Using this definition sopped up late again. Alright so let's see six hallmarks one apostles when the second apostolic age, there are new apostles on the earth today anointed by the laying on of hands to represent speak for God here on earth. The super apostles equal to the original apostles, the ones who witness Jesus life, death and resurrection reported by Christ himself to the offices.

These new apostles were commissioned by God. Other authority may not be question I reject that position. Whoever believes that the noise part Christian. We give it big be giving an accurate description of some people who believe that but I categorically reject that when I speak of apostles today.

We always referred to them as little a apostles that was not like the 12 apostles, not having the authority of the 12 apostles and the authority of every leader unclear who you are, pastor, elder apostle here your every leader's authority can be question and must line up with Scripture and be in submission to two other leaders as well. So I categorically rejected so category number one as described by part Christian radio. I reject that is not my position number two kingdom rather than preach the gospel of the cross. Apostolic leaders are working to bring the gospel of the kingdom of heaven to earth. I categorically reject that position or there are some who are doing that could be could be all right there was I'm not saying that this description was completely made up out of whole cloth.

So there are some that probably hold to something like this for me was I work with my team. Those we train sent out.

Serve around the world. Everything starts with the gospel to cross the gospel of the cross are so these apostolic leaders do this by taking dominion of earthly kingdoms on mountains of government, media, entertainment, education, business from religion is often take of talk of city building and organize prayer walks to pray against demonic strongholds. The often speak of being mission focus rather being Christ centered okay agree with some and disagree with other parts. I'm all for taking prayer walks pre-walk-through cities and pray why not absolute things.

Great idea and I do believe that there are demonic powers over different areas or regions, religions with other ethnicities or things that sometimes were battling spiritually organized demonic forces. Nothing new about holding to that, but being mission focus rather being Christ centered know we are, Christ centered, because we Christ centered be burned with a mission to reach the lost because we Christ centered be burned with a mission to take the gospel to the ends of the earth, and to make disciples of the nations. Do I believe in dominion theology no categorically no I am not post-millennial, I am not an entity within post-millennial's of their different views of what it means to have dominion over the for the gospel to try for the earth.

I am pre-millennial. I believe as we get closer and closer to the end of the age will see parallel extremes. The greatest outpouring of the Spirit history, the greatest works of darkness. Great moving of God.

Great falling away I believe will see parallel extremes as we come to the end of this age before Jesus returns and establishes his kingdom on the earth. Why believe that the church should seek to have a positive influence in all the so-called set amounts absolutely don't abandon the universities don't don't abandon the media don't abandon the larger education system. Don't abandon that the world of entertainment try to bring the gospel try to have a positive influence on it, wouldn't believe that. But take dominion over, no.

I reject that categorically. So two for two so for not doing well if I'm supposed to be a leader in nor destiny presence glory. The members are not always charismatic. They frequently emphasize a manifestation of glory goes presence and often have a special anointing to receive direct revelation from God performed feelings of the signs and wonders.

They teach that our purpose is to achieve our dream destiny so that we can change the world. I would absolutely not say it like that and deftly different with some of the definition I believe we can change the world to a certain extent through the gospel that the gospel might have a positive effect in America to eradicate slavery is the gospel, not standing for social justice today said on behalf of the unborn words. Should the gospel work against corruption in government, things like that.

So would you say that that the world is better where the gospel goes yeah. So in that sense of my sense of destiny is want to glorify God, to the full on the earth who wouldn't stand for that destiny. Do I believe the God manifest his presence powerfully and that people come under deep conviction of snorts happen every revival movement that the glory of God coming in deep and powerful ways I'm looking for an outward sign, though looking for an inward change of heart. Life by believing gifts of power the spirit. Yeah, it's quite mainstream and show through church history, I'm gladly debate with Scripture says on that. So part of that. I agree with part I differ with it simply because the weights define Rossi as absolute believe God comes in unusual intense ways in terms of revival and that we should believe for greater and greater presence of God are preaching and teaching and bring conviction and transformation, and I believe that God backs his words with signs wonders and miracles to glorify Jesus and to demonstrate God's love for hurting, dying world. That's the way I would sit for revival revival on a massive scale is a keyless movement there is a strong emphasis on Anton's harvest through great awakening. We can usher in. Often these revivalists rebels held in stadiums reach millions around the world via live stream technology. Their marketing produce like rock concerts. All Scripture versus Brennan's house falling away are ignored get replaced without the plans at the next big things always just around the corner again very mixed description or very mixed revival that I believe in his God, visiting an area region. The church is I can be held instead. As you might end up with stadium meetings with us. That will mean by revival it could it could be sweeping through a community or village just above the great awakening than in New England in the 1730s into the 40s or Welsh revival action for 1905, things like that. The Browns revival was part of 95 to 2000. Some expecting God to move like that all over the place. You can hold that you can't schedule it again this caricature description here is just putting different things together and defining it a certain way to attempt to give a definition where there is no unified definitions as one critic's definition and I do believe's going into house falling away as I said a moment ago God moving powerfully and since voice is so far out of afford this a single one that I agree with fully the way stated to. I strongly differ with whether stated.

Okay, so obviously I'm not a leader nor from a lead on doing a bad job. Or maybe the star things not way critics are describing five unity unity expensive biblical doctrine is almost always uses both the how and the why in this movement. I reject that only true unity can be based on biblical doctrine. If we don't stand for the fundamentals of the faith together the nonnegotiable's we can have no unity right unity for the sake you bring heaven to earth is leading to the blurring of doctoral denominational lines often bring together well-known is a charismatic former face secret merchant progress Roman Catholic Church is under one umbrella. So now they're calling an umbrella know our see how it goes, this reverse logic. In any case, no II only strive for unity based on truth must hold to the fundamentals and nor denies the sufficiency of Scripture.

They may believe in the inerrancy of the start of the bow because breathe outward is just not enough of them. Jesus sacrificial death for sins is not good enough. The promise of eternal life in heaven is not good enough� Ridiculously biased way of stating things I believe in the sufficiency of Scripture 100% and therefore what Scripture says I affirm Scripture affirms our communion with God and Scripture affirms intimacy with God in Scripture affirms that we hear his voice and he leads us and guides us in Scripture affirms ongoing size were cited 100% categorically affirmed sufficiency of Scripture as taught by Scripture. Therefore, I believe what's written like that on file. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again, Dr. Michael Brown on us if we hold to what the Bible says about sexuality. We are homophobic put certain terms unless it describes us in a critical outside way and then seeks to define who we are. Based on do well to reject that the same with when outsiders.

Critics wanted to find a particular spiritual movement that they reject and then they define it in such a way that they are now dictating who's part of it what it is when the thing doesn't actually exist. It's dangerous. It's misleading and it only hurts work of the gospel by dividing brothers and sisters this is Michael Brown.

Welcome to the broadcast 866-34-TRUTH just running in.

I went through the so-called six hallmarks of a know our new apostolic Reformation church cut up by part Christian radio in what was July 2016 and found that I don't qualify while I'm supposedly one of the leaders in the movement were as I categorically different with some of the alleged tenets of the movement. Others differ within part others small