Exposing the Militant Pro-Abortion Spirit

The Left keeps getting more and more extreme when it comes to abortion. We'll expose it today. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Are you old enough to remember the days when the Democratic argument was, the argument from the Democrats was that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare? More recently, just think back to the days before the Shout Your Abortion movement. Things have shifted dramatically further to the left, and the anger and the wrong spirit of the pro-abortion side is being revealed more and more by the hour.

This is Michael Brown. This is The Line of Fire. Welcome to the broadcast. Now, we're going to be talking about a bunch of things today, but we're starting on this subject. We're starting with, as the potential of the overturning of Roe v. Wade draws nearer and nearer and nearer, that we are seeing the extremism of the Left becoming clearer and clearer and clearer, and the anger and even the violence that will ensue. So we want to talk about that.

We want to see what we can learn from it. We want to talk about some of the interesting people that are making statements that in some ways are sympathetic to the pro-life movement, people from whom you wouldn't expect it. But part of it is, again, as the Left shifts further to the left, then others are going to say, wait, this is too far, or this is too extreme. Just like the stick figure cartoon that Elon Musk tweeted out, it wasn't his, he was not the one who drew it up, but he tweeted it out, someone else had drawn it up, which is basically saying, hey, I've been the same. My positions have been the same.

I was originally left of center, but as the Left has shifted further and further away, I'm now looked at as right of center. It's happening in surprising ways. So we'll talk about that. I've got a bunch of clips to play for you, some updates on what happened with some pro-abortion protests over the weekend.

But then the phone lines are open for any and all calls on any and all subjects, 866-348-7884. Last week's most listened to interview, thus far online from what we can tell, was my interview with Professor James Beverley after he watched the 2000 Mules documentary by Dinesh D'Souza. Professor Beverley has been studying the question of election fraud quite intensively for many months now, and said that his research led him to think that there was some kind of fraud. He wasn't 100% sure, but he felt there was some kind of fraud. Some things were definitely sketchy in his view, but he's studying it back and forth, really analyzing it.

He's Canadian, not American, so he's looking at it more dispassionately. But after seeing the documentary, he said it's absolutely certain. There's no denying the evidence.

Well, if you want to weigh in on that, we didn't have a lot of time for people to weigh in. If you were convinced, there's absolutely no question there's fraud for the following reasons. Now that this subject is back out and being discussed once again. Or, come on already, get over it. It wasn't fraud, move on. Phone lines are open for you as well.

866-348-7884. Okay. Bill Maher, famously irreligious, famously anti-religious, famously liberal, famously Bible-bashing, Christian, conservative-bashing host of real time and before that, politically incorrect. He had some interesting things to say about abortion and babies and life. So, a couple of different clips. Let's listen to his first comments.

These are just from a few days ago. It's not really about the laws or the constitution. You know, whenever I see a lawyer, whether it's on TV or in an ad, they're always in a room with an entire wall of law books behind them. An entire wall. It's what you think, what you feel.

And then you'll find something in that wall of books to back it up. You know, this whole argument about, well, it's settled law. So was segregation. Plessy versus Ferguson was settled law in 1896.

And thank God somebody said, let's unsettle it. It's what you think. If you like babies, then you're pro-life. And if you like women, you're pro-choice.

I like women. Are you saying, you're sort of, I think voicing what I've heard a lot this week, people have a sort of a worry about what I would call a domino theory of social rights. You think first it's abortion and then it's gay rights and then trans rights and then weed goes and then gay marriage, interracial marriage. Is that what you're worried about?

Don't stir up fear now here, be honest. The right to privacy is what abortion is founded on in the constitution, right? And so if there's a right to privacy over a woman's choice, whether to continue a pregnancy, that's the same, the whole same set of cases, the same legal philosophy that said, Mr. and Mrs. Loving had a right to get married, even though one was white, one was black. Or Obergefell got to get married even though his husband was a guy. Or gay people can have sex or married people can use contraception. That was, that was, you know, in the 1960s, that was a big case. Connecticut had outlawed contraception even for married couples. But Clarence Thomas is, that's an interracial marriage.

You think Clarence Thomas? I guess what I'm saying is I really feel like abortion is unique. It is. It is because people either, you know, you just have this view that it's murder. I could put the argument on a hat when people talk about a woman's right. Murder isn't a right.

If you think it's murder, I don't. Again, crazy me. But telling you, we're not going to miss it. You're not going to miss anything. I would because you're already here. You're living. You're living.

All right. So as much as obviously they're going in the wrong direction with their thinking, Bill Maher is the fact that he puts abortion in a different category. Very interesting, isn't it? The fact that he says, look, if you look at it as murder. So he's saying some look at it like that because it's a baby in the womb.

And if you like babies, you're going to be pro-life and the different categories. And really, you can't argue a hard and fast legal case, make a hard and fast legal case that women have a right to abortion. So the point that was made, yes, it's under the right to privacy, which would be Fourth Amendment.

There are so many counterarguments for that. And I don't even think the word privacy is found there in Fourth Amendment in that way. Certainly unrelated to abortion.

And at the time of the Fourth Amendment, abortion was pretty much outlawed in all states across America. So that's obviously not what they were thinking when they mentioned it. And they just want to take the argument endlessly right to privacy. Well, then why not two gay brothers that love each other? Why can't they get married?

What about a father and a grown daughter? Why can't they? In other words, it's an endless thing. You can just keep going further, further, further with that, which is not what was intended. But it's just interesting to hear someone as to the left as Bill Maher make these comments. One other thing he said, which is also interesting.

Let's listen to this. I learned things this week because this put it on the front page that are pretty basic things that I did not know about abortion. Like in Europe, the modern countries of Europe, way more restrictive than we are or what they're or what they're even proposing.

If you are pro choice, you would like it a lot less in Germany and Italy and France and Spain and Switzerland. Did you know that? I didn't know that. I didn't know that. That's right.

OK. I learned most people who are pro life are women. Did not know that. Ah, so as one of my colleagues pointed out to me, if Bill Maher didn't know that and he's pretty alert and aware of a lot of things happening in the society and and laws and moral issues and things like that, obviously strongly disagree with many of the conclusions to which he comes. But if he didn't know that, then your average American, you think they know that. And when polling is done and Americans are asked to believe Roe should be overturned and over 60 percent said no, I think they're answering the question, do you think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances across America? That's not what overturning Roe does.

What overturning Roe does is puts it back in the hands of the states and then the people elect their legislators and the legislators then set up the laws for the states. Well, let the people decide. That's what happens when Roe's overturned. Then the people get to decide.

That's what it comes down to. Hopefully they make the right decision for the good of the babies, for the good of the mothers, for the good of the nation. What's also interesting is that in many cases, the women are pressured to have an abortion by the men. That in many cases, the woman doesn't want to have an abortion, but is pressured by the man. So this whole idea of abortion is just about male control. Well, what do you do with the fact that so many prominent pro-life leaders are women, that so many people at the forefront of the movement are women?

Then in many cases, the men pressing for abortion. Okay, one other surprising voice is Joe Rogan. And if you want some of these clips in writing, I deal with some of them in my latest article, which is about, let me just get the exact title, when Bill Maher and Joe Rogan make the pro-life case. So Joe Rogan, you could say libertarian, pot-smoking Bernie Sanders supporter in the last presidential elections. But, you know, comes to interesting conclusions as he thinks things through, because it's not like it's based on the Bible or based on being against the Bible.

So he's having a discussion with comedian guest Doug Stanhope, and listen to their interaction. Again, just very interesting. You know, it's just, I just don't like, you know, I don't like people telling other people what they can and can't do, but it gets weird when the baby gets like six months old. You know, it gets weird when they're really, really pregnant, because in some states, for the longest, I don't know what the rules are now, but I know that some states had late-term abortions.

And sometimes you need one for medical reasons, right? Like the woman could die if she gives birth, like it's a decision that people have to make. Well, if you look back, what was your favorite part of being a fetus?

Well, what was your favorite part of being three? You know, should I be able to shoot you at three because I don't want to take care of you anymore? It's one of those things. It's like, I am 100% for a woman's right to choose. But as a human being, just as a person observing things, there's a big difference between a little clump of cells and a fetus with an eyeball and a beating heart. And for anybody to pretend there's not, you're not doing any argument. But where do you draw the line? Right, where do you draw the line? Yeah.

Yeah, that's the question. And it's what I call a human issue. It's a very complicated issue. It's so fraught with emotion. And it's so political.

Yeah, so again, very, very interesting discussion there. And by the way, when Joe Rogan said, you know, late term abortion, it's necessary to save the life of the mother. If it's late term, deliver the baby, deliver the baby. If it survives, it survives. Deliver the baby, but then kill the baby to save the mother.

I don't know of cases where that would not be a viable solution in such a situation. But here, even Joe Rogan, okay, clump of cells, remember that clump of cells already has DNA. And it's already it's an embryonic human being. But hey, heartbeat, eyes, it doesn't take too long for that baby to have a detectable heartbeat and eyes. Gonna kill that in the womb?

So even those that are not in our Christian conservative Bible believing camp, they've got some interesting comments about abortion. We'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire, 866-348-7884. We'll be taking some questions a little later in the broadcast about any subject you want to ask me about, talk to me about, on topic, off topic, no problem. But if you want to weigh in on the abortion subject, if your own views have shifted over the years, I would love to hear from you, whether you're 80 or 18, if your own views have shifted pro-life or pro-abortion over the years, I'd love to hear from you.

I'd love to know why and how that shift came about. So by all means, give me a call, 866-34-TRUTH. And just to give you an opportunity to respond to my interview from one week ago with Professor James Beverly, where he feels the evidence is irrefutable, that there was serious fraud in the 2020 election. Again, the topic has been brought up afresh by the Dinesh D'Souza documentary 2,000 Mules. You can give us a call and weigh in either way with your own viewpoint if you weren't able to do so a week ago when we did the interview. I have seen some comments on YouTube saying, well, Professor Beverly didn't go far enough. He said it was local political leaders, local democratic leaders who were behind this, that he doesn't think it goes all the way to the top and all the way back to Biden.

He said, of course, this is national. He's just looking at the evidence presented. That's what he's basing his conclusions on, not an inevitable theoretical domino chain where it goes boo, boo, boo, boo, you know, that you can trace it theoretically. He wants the hard evidence to trace it. That's the way he's going to do his research.

And I'll share my own view in a moment. Oh, and also the question that I've been asked that if in fact it could be demonstrated that there was fraud and that Trump actually won the election and this is going to come up a lot with upcoming elections. And if Trump decides to run again in 2024, he hasn't left this behind for a split second. Now with the documentary, he did a massive thing, I understand, at Mar-a-Lago.

So my colleagues were there to see the opening, public opening of 2,000 Mules there and et cetera. So this is only adding fuel to his fire to keep saying it was stolen, it was stolen, it was stolen, it was stolen. So this is going to come up again. So I've been asked the question, do I have to apologize to those who prophesied Trump's reelection if the election was stolen? Of course not. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't change anything. As we called out those who guaranteed that Trump would be in the White House again and said that he would be reelected and that he would serve eight straight years and we called them out, those who would not repent of that and acknowledge their error, no, it doesn't change anything on that score. So I'll come back to that in a little while, all right?

I'll come back to that shortly. But some headlines from over the weekend. How about this one? Antifa goons hurl Molotov cocktail into offices of Wisconsin anti-abortion group, in other words pro-life group, and spray chilling message saying if abortions aren't safe, you aren't either. So that's Antifa. That's their message. In other words, if you're going to stop the killing of babies in the womb through a righteous legal process and by means of the intervention of the Supreme Court, then we can hurt you. Think of that. Think of that.

That's what you call satanic logic. How about this headline? Liberals celebrate protests outside SCOTUS justices' homes, churches, calling it mass resistance. Now, there's a strongly pro-life, pro-family organization called Mass Resistance. They probably won't be pleased with their name being used in the opposite way.

But you've got people cheering them on. And have you thought of the irony of the fact that they called for protests on Mother's Day? Mother's Day. That's when you celebrate the women who brought you into this world, not terminated you in the womb. This is when you celebrate the women who cared for you as a child growing up and who were there in ways that only mothers can be there. Why on earth have abortion protests, pro-abortion protests on Mother's Day? Yeah, I'm aware that many women that have abortions are mothers and for whatever reason feel they cannot or do not want to bring another child into the world.

I understand that. But this is when you celebrate motherhood, not abortion. And then others weighing in online, comedian John Rosenberg, who I'd not heard of before, he responds to a tweet from Bill Kristol. Please don't protest in people's homes. Please don't intrude on people attending their houses of worship. Organize politically. Be civil civically. So Rosenberg replies, no, expletive this. Go to people's homes.

Go to the places of worship. Make them as uncomfortable as they are trying to make you. This is not the time for civility. This is the time for mass resistance and demonstration. I even saw this headline today, Daily Wire, Nancy Pelosi applauds righteous anger of abortion rights activists in a letter to fellow Democrats that were those words, righteous anger, in quotes. So the White House press secretary, Jen Psaki, was asked about this directly.

Listen to her response. It's very interesting. So you guys spent some time yesterday talking about what you think are the extreme wings of the Republican Party. Do you think the progressive activists that are now planning protests outside some of the justices houses are extreme? Peaceful protest?

No. Peaceful protest is not extreme. He doesn't care if they're protesting outside the Supreme Court or outside someone's private residence. I don't have an official U.S. government position on where people protest.

I want it. We want it, of course, to be peaceful. And certainly the president would want people's privacy to be respected. Why not emphatically, categorically say under no circumstances does the White House, does this present administration support protests, even peaceful protests in front of the homes of the justices? Why not just make that categorical statement? These are not games that are being played. Well, neither is Roe v. Wade. Exactly. We're talking about saving babies' lives and recovering a culture of life is what we're talking about. In any case, expect things to only get worse and more extreme as the extremists on the left make their real sentiments known.

And this, I believe, will play against them, not for them. 866-34-TRUTH, we go to the phone's Nikki in Portland, Oregon. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown. Hey. Yeah, it's great to be here.

And I just want to give a shout out first to all the people on your live chat. They just love you so much. And we've been following you and love this, this, this subject so much.

I used to be a pro-toycer before you threw us down me. But what changed my mind, it happened overnight. I mean, it was like I was, I was killed and I was saved. And then I kind of knew truth of the Holy Spirit kind of moved. And I knew that I was on the wrong side. I had been pro-abortion all my life. And overnight, it changed.

That was really static for me. And I've had, and I've talked about this on your, on the chat too, that I've had abortions. And so I've had to go through, I mean, Jesus kind of, you know, brings us under his cleansing and under his blood, but we still have to grieve that, right?

Yeah, yeah. That's a whole process. And so I don't think I'm really through it. But this whole Roe v. Wade thing kind of brought it up again. And so I'm having to go through it and look through the arguments again.

And it's just been really, really challenging. And so I don't know what to say about it other than, you know, I know abortion is wrong. And I'm looking at, I'm looking at the scriptures and like looking at slavery, slavery was wrong, but God didn't approve it.

He didn't condone it, but he gave, I don't know, what would the word be? Humanitarian laws for slavery, which of course was totally different than the African slave trade that we engaged in here in America. It was more like indentured servanthood. But then on top of that gave the pattern of Israel being delivered from slavery as the ideal. And then Jesus comes to set the captives free.

You know, this all trickles down, which is why it was ultimately Christian leaders through the centuries that fought against slavery. Nikki, let me ask you a question. You do remind me though, in sharing this about something I was going to do anyway, but I'll probably write about it. Just reaching out to women who had abortions before that are, they know they're forgiven, but still that grief, that pain comes up, especially when things are being talked about afresh.

But if you can stay, stay with us to the other side of the break, cause we've got a break coming up. I want to ask you a couple of questions and thanks for being a long time viewer on our YouTube channel. For those who say I don't know about that, we do a live stream. So for those that are watching, just waving at everybody, we do a simultaneous live stream of our radio show every day on YouTube and on Facebook. It's the ASK DR Brown YouTube or Facebook page. Ask Dr. Brown page on Facebook.

Ask Dr. Brown channel on YouTube. So it's a live video stream. As you've been hearing on, on radio or on podcast, hearing audio clips, those watching are actually seeing the video clips. As I've been citing headlines from newspapers and things like that, those watching or seeing the headlines, you can always catch the show afterwards in that form as well on our YouTube channel, ASK DR Brown. But there's always a lively chat going on.

I don't get to follow it during the show, but Nikki's one of our long-term viewers. So thanks for being with us. So we come back. I want to ask you first why you were pro-abortion before you met the Lord and how overnight your conviction changed. What was it?

Was it just a revelation or was it a supernatural logical process? We'll talk to Nikki on the other side of the break. Stay right here. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. God is the God of life and that life begins for human beings in the womb at conception. That's why we are pro-life, which means we are for the baby in the womb and for the baby and the child outside of the womb. We are for the mother and the father during pregnancy and for the mother and father after pregnancy. That's why pro-life organizations work with pregnancy crisis centers that offer women real choices and say, okay, there are other alternatives to getting an abortion. Now here are the alternatives for keeping the baby and here's support that you can get. If that is an impossibility to you right now, well, there are those who will gladly adopt your child and plans can be made early on for that to take place. There are options. There are support groups, etc.

So we are not just pro-life in the womb, but pro-life outside the womb. 866-348-7884. Welcome to The Line of Fire.

I want to go back to Nikki in Portland, Oregon. Thanks for holding through the break. So, Nikki, how old were you when you became a believer in Jesus, Yeshua? I was 54.

54, okay. So your reason, if someone said to you, well, why are you pro-choice, pro-abortion? Isn't that killing a baby in the womb? Why did you once believe that abortion was fine, that abortion was acceptable? I think I just went along with the narrative that was given to me.

I didn't really think it through. I didn't really have a moral base. I didn't have a basis in truth now that I looked back. So I just, when you don't have a basis in truth and you don't have God, you're going to come to those conclusions. This is what we need to understand about the left, that this is a logical conclusion and they truly believe it. And they're sincere about their beliefs and they strongly believe it.

And they want social justice, but they don't know that there's God. So that's where I was. And so once Yeshua opened my eyes, once He healed me and He saved me overnight, I knew what was right and wrong.

Interesting. And that took the Holy Spirit. So now I can see what's right and what's wrong in this space. Thank God and His word. But I mean, I have so much compassion for those on the left who truly believe this, because there is a strong delusion in the last days.

And I was under that. And if there's no basis for truth or God, you know, that's what we're going to see. I do know some atheists, however, who are pro-life, which is amazing to me. And this proves that God's word is written on our heart, right?

Yeah. So let me ask you this, Nikki, and thanks for being so clear and articulate on this. There are many women, or men as well, that really object to the pro-abortion phrase. They say we're not pro-abortion, we're pro-choice. We're not pro-abortion. So in other words, they're not the ones celebrating abortion, you know, and the most radical extreme left. They're just saying, no, we don't think abortion is the best thing, but it's absolutely better in many cases, etc. And you're going to bring another one a child into the world, and you're going to subject them to this and that, and the mother is emotionally unstable.

And, you know, the various reasons that are raised. When you had an abortion or abortions before you knew the Lord, once you did it, did you have any second thoughts afterwards? Was there a grieving process? Or was it a matter of, well, no, I did it. No, it was horrible. It was horrible, Dr. Brown.

I knew in my heart it was wrong, and I grieved. Yeah, I just knew. Yeah, so that's interesting. I mean, I've heard that time and time again from women who've called in. So here, I mean, let's think about this together, right? You're part of the culture of the day, which says my body, my choice, and I'm going to be a part of the you're part of the culture of the day, which says my body, my choice. It's just, you know, it's just removing unwanted clump of cells and etc. So that was just normal for you, but having done it, there was still something deeper in you that said it was wrong. Isn't that interesting?

It is. It proves God's Word that he has his moral law written on every human heart. Yeah, and then the moment that you get born again, you have a new nature, and immediately you realized abortion is morally wrong. So in other words, there was no process that you went through.

Well, the Bible says this, and I've studied these verses, and I've considered this. It was just a light went on. Was it that simple?

Yeah, it was. I mean, I know it's crazy, but that's how God works sometimes. Yeah, well, that's the nature of the new birth, you know? I mean, it reminds me of a story.

It's a very, very minor story compared to your personal story with abortion. But this guy, a Jewish guy, secular Jew, gets radically born again. Before that, he had been a very profane character, and he's working on a construction job with a colleague. I heard this in a church where I first got saved over 45 years ago, I heard it. The guy's working on a construction site with a colleague, another construction worker, and he's hammering something in, and he slams his thumbnail with a hammer and screams out, hallelujah!

And the guy said, what happened to you? So it's just suddenly something just happened. I mean, it's an extreme illustration of the same thing. But yeah, the new birth is real. Hey, Nikki, thank you for weighing in and sharing openly. And thank you for reminding all of us that we must have compassion and that there are many women out there who've had abortions, believers as well.

And now that the subject's coming up a lot, it's opening old wounds. So may we have compassion and grace here. Thank you for the call. I appreciate it.

God bless you, Dr. Brown. Hey, let me just say this to everybody listening, to every woman in particular, but men, if you participated in abortion, if you have come to the Lord for forgiveness and confessed your sins and said, God, I'm guilty in your sight, forgive me. And abortion would be one of many sins committed. The blood of Jesus really does cleanse you from all sin. And God really does forgive you of all sin. And God really does not remember that sin anymore, meaning hold it against you. That forgiveness is real. It doesn't mean there's not a pain that can come up or grief, but know that the Father is with you, grieving with you, as opposed to accusing you of guilt. And that he wants to use your pain in tears of intercession for others who wants to use your pain as a warning to others.

He wants to use your pain to produce more compassion and to help us, those of us who have not participated in abortion or a male who's never had an abortion, then your words help us be more sensitive and more loving and more compassionate as we reach out, as we address these things. And if you don't know the Lord and you're under this burden of guilt, which is tormenting you, run to him. Run to him and say, God, I'm guilty. I'm a sinner. To the core of my being, I'm guilty.

Forgive me. Wash me clean. I believe Jesus died for my sins. I believe he rose from the dead on my behalf. God, I come to wash me clean and give me that new birth.

Give me that new heart that Nikki talked about so I can follow you the rest of my days. And if you say, man, I feel guilty, but I'm not sure about the rest, ask God, show me the truth. Show me the truth and I'll follow you. And he'll do it. He's faithful.

Let us go to Harlan in Durham, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you for taking my call, Dr. Brown.

You're welcome. You asked about people that have had a transition in their views of abortion. For years I was pro-life, but very vaguely and weakly, and didn't have a good comprehension of the issue. But starting around 2007, through the influence of Alan Keyes, Tom Hoeffler, and the late Duff Bob Enyart of American Right to Life, I came to see that it's an important moral issue, and that pro-life can be categorized in terms of personhood, personhood now, personhood whenever, personhood later, and personhood never. And I became a personhood now pro-lifer, which has transitioned, that movement has transitioned into the abolitionist movement. And I've come to see that as, that much of the pro-life legislation, if Roe vs. Wade is overturned, will keep abortion decriminalized because of exceptions, and that any amount it ends with and then you can kill the baby is immoral. So I am now a staunch abolitionist at work.

Yeah, Harlan, I remember, I'm fairly sure that we've talked before. The, right, so laws say the Dobbs case in Mississippi, without law abortion, after 15 weeks, and the Texas case after six weeks, and the argument should ultimately be no abortion. So, God willing, that is the direction we want to move, state by state, and it will work out that way, state by state, in terms of how our country operates in this situation. But if that is a living human being in the womb, then any abortion, any time, would be wrong. And the whole debate about for the safety of the mother, you know, C. Everett Koop, who is U.S. Surgeon General, said that in his 36 years, I think, of practice, that he never had to perform an abortion to save the life of the mother.

You may have an extreme situation where you're trying to save both lives, so you have to deliver the baby prematurely, or remove the baby prematurely, and the baby's unable to survive, but the goal is always to protect both lives. Hey, Harlan, thank you for calling in and sharing your viewpoint. Let us go over to Teresa in Dallas, Texas. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. Hey. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. I'm calling because you were asking about conversion experiences, and my conversion experience was very radical, because the Holy Spirit appeared in my bedroom, and prior to January 3rd of 2000, I was radically pro-choice, as you would say, and then God showed me immediately Psalm 139, and showed me that the abortions that I had in my B.C. days were just sin to cover up the sin of fornication, so he has made his will clear on life. Teresa, when you say you were radically pro-choice before this experience, after you had abortions, did you have any guilt or second thoughts, or were you absolutely, no, this is just the right thing to do? No, I had already started experiencing post-abortion syndrome, where every November I would go into deep depression, and always be thinking about what my babies would look like, and how old they would be. I'll tell you what, Teresa, stay right there. We've got a couple minutes just to think this through, and before the Lord asks for his grace to share it, because we need to hear what you have to say. Friends, we've heard this over and over. Here was someone described as radically pro-choice, and she's still going through that grieving process back then before she understood the truth.

Be right back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. Friends, I've been on the air for years, and we've taken many calls from women who had abortions, and the stories same over and over and over. Even people that said, oh, yeah, we were pro-choice and felt it was the right thing to do, there's still the grief. I'm not saying every woman's experienced this, but it's been the common experience of those who've called in.

So, Teresa, sorry to interrupt with a break. It was hard for you to get the words out, though, but here you were, radically pro-choice, either unaware or uncaring of what the Bible said about this or God's views, and yet you grieved over the abortion. From your experience talking to other women who had abortions, was this a common experience?

Yes. As a matter of fact, my church ran a recovery group for people with post-abortion syndrome, because there were so many of us that had had abortions before we got saved or, you know, as we struggled. And we were able to, of course, receive forgiveness, repent and receive forgiveness. And I know that I'm going to see my babies in heaven, but we do struggle with how we kill our babies, basically.

We were able to have a naming ceremony, and we had a funeral for our little babies, and our pastor participated in that. Extraordinary. That's a human being there. So, God just supernaturally opened your eyes to the Scriptures, and you saw Psalm 139 as clear as day.

As clear as day. How did that impact you? What were you thinking when that happened? Well, it was such an emotional experience as far as the whole salvation experience, because, like I said, the Holy Spirit appeared in my bedroom, so he was showing me all kinds of signs in little ways and in big ways. He gave me my scripture, which is Romans 8.28, which goes along with the same thing. He works together for the good, so even though I killed my babies, I know they're in heaven. I know I'm saved, and I'm going to see them one day. And I was seriously involved in the occult, so he showed me Deuteronomy 18, and I got rid of all my astrology books and burned them and my tarot cards. And then he showed me Psalm 139, because I had killed two babies.

It was a process that was still going on, but that first week after I got saved, I was in tears almost constantly. Boy. And how long ago was this, Teresa? January 3rd of 2000. Yeah, got it. You said that earlier.

January 3rd of 2000. Extraordinary. So 22 years later, there's still stuff that comes up in your heart. Look, you're a mother. That's the way God made us.

And deep down, it's what he created us for, to bring children into the world. Hey, Teresa, thank you for being willing to share this publicly. You've ministered to many in doing so. I appreciate it. You're welcome.

And I'm going back to the chat to see my friends there. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Thanks.

866-34-TRUTH. You know, it's a reminder to me to hear this. But pastors that are listening now, it's important if you're going to talk about abortion. Just a reminder, because I can forget, right? So maybe you can forget. If you're going to talk about abortion, talk about Roe v. Wade, talk about pro-life, always remember the people in your congregation who may have had abortions. You said that was 30 years ago.

It doesn't matter. It can come up as a fresh wound today. Always remember them.

And if you've got a good enough group of people in your church and you understand, boy, there are a number of women who had abortions here, consider the possibility of some type of special group to minister to them, because wounds do come up and what we tend to do is just bury them, bury them, instead of deal with them and find healing and life. And I'm quite sure in this day and age that there must be many good resources that are out there. It's not like you have to reinvent the wheel here. Hey, before we continue with this subject, we have a really important resource available for you. It's part of our whole mission to see you healthy and thriving in the Lord. It's part of our whole mission to infuse you with faith and truth and courage so you can stand strong for the Lord. So just take a moment.

Let me share a little bit more with you about this. Are you struggling in your faith? Do you have doubts and questions and you really don't know where to go with them? Or maybe you have a friend or a loved one that's completely fallen away from the Lord.

Well, friends, we've got a great resource for you. Has God failed you? Finding faith when you're not even sure God is real. This is the book that is a first aid kit for seekers and strugglers and doubters.

It asks the difficult questions. What happens when prayer doesn't seem to work? What happens when that loved one we're praying for isn't healed? And what about those passages in the Old Testament? It looks like God is an angry, vengeful God.

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In fact, you may want to get a couple of copies, one for you, one for a loved one. This way we can go on this mission together of getting the body healthy. Let's go back to one more call.

Richmond, Virginia. Angelo, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown. How are you doing? Doing very well. Thank you. Hey, your ministry blesses me, man. I really appreciate what you're doing and I love it. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. Hey, this one that touched basically you were talking about when people converted from being pro-choice to being pro-life. Yeah.

Just real quick. I was a senior in high school and I had gotten my girlfriend pregnant and had to rush and get a last minute abortion in order to make sure my plans for college and what my life was supposed to be, quote unquote, would happen. And it was more of a coercion.

I feel really bad about it and I think about it quite often, but I know that is forgive me for it. And I've talked to the young lady as well. And we've come kind of reconcile things there. But when she was done, when the process was done, the procedure came. She she sat down in the car. She said it was a boy. And I said, what?

And she said it was a boy. And immediately at that point in time, you know, it became real to me now. And I'm going to say this because, you know, sin is sin and a sinner is a sinner. That didn't stop me from my life of promiscuity. That didn't stop me from my life of continuing to be selfish, which is what sin does and what sin draws you to. So sad to say that wasn't the only time that I had that young lady pregnant.

But I'm going to tell you, what happened really is when I did really come to know that I was I became born again and there was life in God, there was life in Jesus Christ. It totally switched, like I said, my perspective on just everything in general. You know, that's that's when I reached out to the young lady and apologized to it. That's when I reached out to the other young ladies and apologized to them. But, you know, a lot of people think, you know, and yes, it does affect the ladies in a tremendous way.

And I'm not belittling that belittle in that at all. But, you know, there are guys out there who are suffering from it as well. Yes.

Yes. Stop it all and say, you know, and, you know, but there are men out there that are hurting because of it. There are men out there who are still feeling the pain of it. And, you know, I just want to speak to them that there is forgiveness, there is healing, there is hope.

You know, you may not be able to reach out to that young lady at that point in time, but but know that God loves you and he's not holding against you as well. So that's kind of just what I wanted to say. And like I said, I appreciate.

Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for being so open. Thank you for ministering to the men. Thank you for reminding me and others.

Yes, there are men hurting, too, and other men have called in as well and with their own brokenness years later over what happened. Angelo, we've only got a minute, but how soon after you were born again did you realize the sin of abortion? Immediately.

Immediately. I mean, it wasn't it wasn't like I had to be transformed. I mean, sin of abortion, sin of on occasion, everything. When I was born again, I kind of put those those thoughts on the back burner.

Right. But as I started thinking about as the topic will come up, because in the evangelical world, of course, abortion for life is there. God took me immediately right to, you know, the sin I committed then.

And, you know, it wasn't like I had to be coerced or got it. No, I understand. I understand the work of the Holy Spirit. You know, Angelo, the new birth is real, friends, for those that are that are listening and you're not familiar with a lot of this and you just kind of grew up in a church setting. The new birth is real. God really does come into our hearts and change us. Now, it's a matter of growing after that.

Yeah. The new birth is real. Angelo, thank you for the call.

And I'm sure God used it to speak to many. I appreciate it. Hey, friends, we put out every week a bunch of brand new resources, videos, articles. Don't miss one of them. We may take that last call or Nikki's call and put it out as a special resource for you. A new article dealing with the topics.

Go to AskDr.Brown.org. Sign up for our emails. Back with you tomorrow. It's our world, they can never have it. This is how we rise. It's our resistance. You can't resist us.