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Did the Talmud Teach that Abraham and Sarah Were Non-Binary?

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
April 28, 2022 6:10 pm

Did the Talmud Teach that Abraham and Sarah Were Non-Binary?

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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Is it true that the Talmud teaches that Abraham and Sarah were non-binary for the light a fire with your host scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for more savvy and spiritual clarity 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire and now there's your host Dr. Michael Brown interesting rabbinic texts today were going to separate fact from fiction on through Jewish Thursday here on the line of fire Michael Brown. Welcome to the broadcast. We are here to see you healthy and thriving and growing stronger and stronger in the Lord infusing with faith and truth and courage 866-34-TRUTH 866-348-7884. Any Jewish related question of any kind. Question relating to the Hebrew Bible, the Hebrew language is real. Today Jewish people in history question about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah messianic prophecy if it's Jewish related questions about anti-Semitism. Give me a call. This is the day we focus on Jewish related issues, 86634878841 I wrote my book where thing happened to America they came out in the year 2011. I looked at a number of developments within Judaism, liberal Judaism reform Judaism. I looked at the direction it was going in terms of homosexual activism in terms of ordaining gay rabbis gay and lesbian rabbis and things like that even looked at a ceremony in a prayerbook for someone that was getting sex change surgery your prayer to pray over them.

Part of for reform Jewish seminary Summit sees me a ceremony so these of course were developments living on for years as no surprise that I got different books of queer Bible commentaries written from a Jewish perspective and things like that in one chapter in iniquity happened to America.

Once through the rewriting of the Bible by gay and lesbian queer theologians and system.

Shocking, agonizingly painful quote seemed to put in print, but related those you could see where things were going so again this is been happening for years. I own the major books have been written on the subject over the years and debate within the various strands of Judaism of how you deal with homosexual practice. To this day among religious Jews, those who take the that the Bible it's about the Hebrew Bible is the word of God. Those who believe in the authority of their traditions. There's no debate there's no argument there has been just in the same way with Christians that think the Bible is the word of God and recognize the, the consistency with which these issues have been dealt with for centuries. There's no debate. There's an ongoing call for compassion for those who struggle. There's an ongoing call within traditional Judaism. To be compassionate to those who struggle in these areas. There's no question about what the Bible says what would Jewish law is so in that light, I want you look at some tweets from Rabbi Daniel Bogart not familiar with him at all except this tweet was sent to me today by John Cooper, your friend, the lead singer in front man of skillet he said look at this bizarre thread here. Send it to me copy to James White and then I saw that James sent me a direct message on Twitter saying and today's light of Philo's want to cover today. All had a different subject plan for today, but I thought you know what, let's let's make a switch here and let's go with this so I think you find this really interesting as we delve into some ancient Jewish texts this Rabbi just reading about him before the show was raised in reform Judaism.

Again, this is very liberal form of Judaism and in no way would reform to look at the Bible is the word of God the way we would in no way would reform Jews look at Talmudic and rabbinic traditions the way a traditional Jew would that they would strongly say that we are that they identify as Jewish and many traditional rabbis say there Jewish but we don't recognize their synagogues is legitimate or there rabbis as budget, so this is this is the thread from Rabbi Bogart read about the first six tweets psyche. From GOP lawmakers that they just want to return to a Judeo-Christian Christian idea of men being men and women being women talk about that Judeo Park for moment because it's a lot clearer and less binary than y'all seem to think he then says this of the most central couple in the Bible is Abraham and Sarah. The founders of the Jewish people and they were both intersex or non-binary or both. Millennia ago, the rabbis of the Talmud Sheriff and ancient tradition of this if a mode 64 a and B affect the rabbis of the Talmud.

Even get into an argument as to which categories are very much non-binary six gender spectrum. Abraham and Sarah fall into. Don't believe me, that ancient Jews didn't see gender is a binary check out the 2000-year-old secret mission of the Kareem for one through four. The content skews me the content person study partners of historical Jesus. The rabbis of the Mishna and they describe six gender sex is not to know to be wrong. This is still a text with lots of misogyny but also clearly shows that we never saw gender as a binary market, even queer. Adam was made in God's image, which according to receipt robot 81 means that the moment when the holy less one created the first Adam, God created them is as androgynous as it is written in female created them.

Think about it.

If a Brett Dom Hartley shown the first human being is made in God's image and Adam was described as this is the literal word in Hebrew, androgynous. That means that according to the ancient rabbis God is not binary.

Okay so those are the claims that Rabbi Bogart makes and he gives you links to actual text to look up sooner do that, would you look at these texts to sort this out for the moment. Now if everything he said was 100% accurate that we just mean there are some strange traditions preserved in traditional Judaism. The Bible doesn't speak to those things. The Bible doesn't back those things up. The Bible does ultimately say very clearly that God created us male and female. Jesus reinforces that in Matthew 19 436 is is that marriage is God intended in his union of one man and one woman for life is no ambiguity in the Bible about that but are these Jewish traditions being rightly represented. First, let me just say a few things up front. This rabbis speaking about queer non-binary non-gender conforming identities. This was Charlie's is not talk about homosexuality, lesbianism that some of that here right, but I do want to say a few things about that upfront is not the rabbis focus here but also a few things up front number one there's no ambiguity in Jewish tradition about homosexual behavior being forbidden. There's no ambiguity in the Torah. There is no ambiguity in the Talmud. There's no ambiguity in the Jewish law codes.

In fact, the Jewish law codes go beyond what's explicit in the tour which forbids male male sexual intimacy, male male sexual relations that the Jewish law codes make clear that that behaviors forbidden among women also this the first thing just I know is talking about that but I want to reemphasize that the just as there's no ambiguity to go through the old and New Testament in terms of homosexual behavior is no ambiguity in the Torah and in Jewish tradition about that.

The only ones that have different views on that are the ones that are trying to rewrite or reinterpret or ignore those past traditions that's that's the first thing the second thing is that Jewish tradition has some very strong statements to make about same-sex quote marriage, namely, that in the days of Noah that they were marrying one another, men were marrying man or animals having relations with them and that's one of the reasons that God destroyed the world explicitly says this is one of the reasons that God destroyed the world. Same-sex quote marriage certificates being written so soon in the very same traditions that this rabbis going.

I know he's not talking here about homosexual practice or same-sex quote marriage is struck by the issues having to do with non-binary, intersex, etc. but I just want to reinforce that also this point, according to traditional Judaism chronologically.

Chronologically, the first commandment is Peru roof movement with hearts be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth, that is commandment given to a Dom on behalf of the human race. Write a Dom that represented the human race. And that's why when you get to Genesis 2. A Dom needs a suitable helper of Adam needs Eve is not Eve he cannot. They cannot fulfill the calling to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth traditional Judaism. This is a command that every couple must do what they can to procreate. Naturally, and, and, ideally, to have at least one son and one daughter, thereby fulfilling this command. Obviously, it's not always in your power to do that. There are some people who were barren but to the extent you can. It is a requirement in Jewish law to seek to do that so heterosexuality is presupposed and normal sexual functions or presupposed the question arises is what happens when someone biologically genetically doesn't fit into those categories.

What what happens biologically genetically when you're intersex or another category that hermaphrodite. So what happens if you have ambiguous sexual organs or you don't function normally, sexually, biologically or you have male and female organs which would be hermaphrodite.

What happens if that's the case then how do you sort these things out legally is not questioning whether there are males and females whether there are distinct categories of male and female. Of course there are just like some people can see and so people are blind.

Some people can hear some people are death right you have two eyes, but some people have two eyes that don't work so all of the legislature.

All of the rabbinic discussion presupposes the categories of male female but now you have these others just like someone with a disability. Some of the handicap that deadfall somewhere between no one's arguing the end that the existence of intersex people know is arguing the that the physical and biological issues that we always talk about that has zero to do with the biological male identifying as a female or biological female identifies a male or biological male 116 surgeon become a female or biological female wings exchange surgery become a male. No such thought exists in the minds of these Jewish rabbis that are being quoted we come back we can look at some of the specific tax that Rabbi Bogart just brought up with separate fact from fiction, noble takers usually calls after that seeking the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and his friends were joining us on Thursday. This is Michael Brown number to call with your Jewish related question 866-348-7884 there are plenty of statements in the Talmud or in larger rabbinic tradition that every all their plenty of statements that I have no desire to defend. I do not accept rabbinic authority. Otherwise I would be rabbinic, you also appreciate much beauty in the traditions much insight in the traditions much that's worthy in the traditions but I'm not speaking as a traditional Jew again if I was I would not be a believer in Yeshua and I would be living an Orthodox or ultra-Orthodox lifestyle. So my question is when Talmud or midrash rabbinic traditions are being represented as saying certain things to be represented accurately. That's over trying to find out right so I will first want to point out something to in terms of how traditional Judaism reads the Torah and reads the Bible in terms of a very very specific legal focus of very very specific focus on specific legal terms word so go over to Deuteronomy chapter 17 and I am going to look at the commentaries of Rashi, the foremost biblical commentator and tumbler commentator in Judaism so it says in verse eight of Deuteronomy 17.

The case is too baffling for you.

A controversy over homicide, civil law or assault matters of discrete records. You shall promptly report to the place that your God, your Lord will have chosen doubt it. It's literally in Hebrew. When this dispute began dispute between blood and blood or between smiting and smiting alright so many Jewish interpreters understands blood and blood, meaning homicide controversy over homicide or civil law or assault something like that. How does Rashi understand look at look at what he says and I can look at his second comment if there's anything too hard for the judgment between blood and blood.

This is what he says between the blood of the men stress woman that may be unclean and blood that may be clean and is quoting from from the Talmud and from what's called Madrid helical so is that interesting.

He reads the words going back to early Jewish tradition between blood and blood which which clearly is referring to homicide bloodshed right.

He understands it between you try to sort out is is is your wife still experiencing her.

As that is she unclean or not that's between blood and blood and and then when it goes down a little bit further when we just scroll down here on my screen. Rick Rick Cosell will be further then when when it's a question about literally between striking and striking a rush understands because the word Naegele can also refer to plague that you're trying to determine the Naegele and in the hat what what type of plague. This is or you know is it you got in Leviticus where this mildew with the house, unclean or not is the person unclean or not, etc. so there is is very much a legal reading of things in great detail in ways that what is often surprising, but I wouldn't say I would think the text was talking about that so you're often dealing with legal categories.

When we put this person where they fit when their similes abnormalities.

Okay, so let's go over to the first text that Rabbi Bogart cited and is from give almost this is it. In the section called machine women in the Mishnah and the Talmud. So the end of page 64 a and beginning of page 60 4B Rabbi Hitchcock said from recent sewer reading from the expanded translation of audience Don Schultz, Rabbi Hitchcock said what reason were forefathers initially infertile is the holy one, blessed be he desires the prayers of the rights so there infertile so that they would look to him in prayer.

Rabbi you texted why the prayers of the righteous compared to a pitchfork actors in the verse. He let himself be entreated for the tear. This indicates that just as this pitchfork turns over produced from one place to another to the prayer. The righteous turns over the attributes of the holy one blessing from the S attribute of rage to the attribute of mercy existence complete plays on words and and and false etymologies and things like that just to make political points. This is this Rabbi Ami said Abraham and Sarah were ritually trimmed to mean since literally hidden a people's sexual organs are concealed and nonfunctional the Lord saying that biologically this was their original condition that they were trying to mean the reason they refer to the reason they were unable to have children because their sexual organs were not properly developed as it is stated which of the rock from which reunion into the whole of the pit from which you were dog is a 51 one, and it is written in the next verse which Abraham your father into Sir bore you.

So again I midrash at homiletical interpretation which indicates that sexual organs were fashioned for them. This is the stage Schultz explanation signified by the words Yoon and Doug over the course of time. Okay, so it's just stop there for mom. What this tradition is saying and this is just one opinion that is thrown out in the midst of a discussion is that they originally Tim to me. So again, literally, in Hebrew, hidden meaning that their sexual organs were originally hidden and not properly developed, no one is questioning in the text whether Abraham was a man or Sarah was a woman.

The text is not dealing with that at all. Something queer about this is biological.

This is dealing with the phenomenon of intersex or of improperly developed or not properly functioning sexual organs. There's nothing that questions if Abraham was a man or woman there's nothing that questions of Sarah was a man or woman is fully completely understood when questioning Abraham a man Sarah woman. However, they were infertile within infertile for the reason that they were Tim to mean and that their sexual organs were not properly functioning developed. They were hidden. That's one idea and based on the strange interpretation of these verses in Isaiah's deduce that God over period of time because their sexual organs to now come to full fruition and function.

That's all. What's got got to do with the biological male identifying his female or or a healthy 18-year-old biological genetic woman getting sex change surgery because she really believes deep down she's met Sarah zero connection whatsoever. Okay what what about the other text from the Mishnah be cream and this is an agricultural part of the of the Mishnah and Talmud, but it is atomic and get into all kinds of other discussions right all kinds of other discussions. So to start reading it starts with the word on Trojan horse in Hebrew right of the hermaphrodites. This is from Mishnah be cream.

Beginning chapter 4 the hermaphrodite is in some ways, like men, and in other ways like women in other ways.

He is like men and women and in others he is like neither men nor women, so it fully recognizes you have the two categories of mail and female that's not the question what you do with someone who has male and female sexual organs that exist for very very tiny part of the population. She is a mess to deal with this because illegal questions when you put this person legally is not out of their state of mind how they feel about themselves. It's it's a matter of their physical development. There biological development that's the only, and I emphasize only questionnaire where you put them legally because you have mail and you have female you have these categories where they fit so it goes on in what ways is he like men because his impurity with white discharge like men.

He dresses like men.

He can take a wife, but not be taken as a wife like men when he is born. His mother counts the blood purification like men. He may not be secluded with women like man is not maintained with the daughters like men. He transgresses the law of you shall not round into the corners of your beard, etc. and is perform all the commandments of the Torah, like men so once he's identified as male. That said, he can't marry females to get there is no thing about let's alter his organs or anything like that or change the way he identifies it's all legal categories.

So this is where he fits in what ways is he like women because his impurity with red discharge like women and he must not be secluded with men like women and it is a make his brothers wife liable for you boom levirate marriage is not sharing inherence with the subsequent and he cannot he most holy sacrifices like woman as Bertha's mother counts the blood of her impurity like they do we give birth to a girl he's disqualified from being a witness like women for illicit intercourse is disqualified from eating from like women so in other words, an ominous stop here read and get to two densely into the into the details.

In other words this person is going to be classified as either male or female right depending on his bodily functions and depending on how he is been raised and recognized. He's going to be put in one category the other and then that's the category that he's in mail female because those are the only categories that exist at an end.

There may be things where there is overlap in terms of how he is treated under the law, or if recognizes woman how she's treated under the law, but none of this zero has anything to do with queer identity anything to do with a person's self perception, contrary to biological realities. Nowhere, nowhere in all the Jewish literature is someone who is fully recognizes a functioning biological male able to identify or recognize that they can identify as female or change to FEMA.

It does not exist back in anything about miraculous divine intervention but God intervened, how he wants in developing organs that are not properly developed as a whole of the story. Like with your golf line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown locomotive to quantify the spirit of the Jews through the Michael Brown delighted to be with you his number to call with you Jewish related questions, 866348788486634 to remember to visit real that is our Jewish outreach Jewish information website with answers to the top 100 Jewish objections to Jesus with links to many video debates are done with rabbis links to our thinking through TV series we did with the interim inspiration network peers back all kinds of other great resources and are there free because the generosity of many people just like you that not only pray for us, but feel prompted to given support as well. So thank you for that visit real and why not join our support team help us reach more Jewish people with the good news of the site can do that it ask Dr. Click on donate right we go to the phones and we will start in Jackson Mississippi with Jonathan welcome to the line of fire last time Dr. Brown hey thank you, my question is first started really getting into Hebrew root speech in the Lola Lebed on television. I think in the late 80s or 90s and and I really learned a lot and in the 2000 I found a local messianic congregation and I was go in there to check it out for a while until I heard the rabbi faded those that were ethnically Jews needed to keep the 613 log in the Torah and that is upset me so much thought about what Paul would say to him you nine I wrote them a letter and everything inadequate attendant and I'm just concerned about the bent towards legalism and from circle in this wanted your comments. Yes also Jonathan of the pendulum swings in different ways right and an offense to get to the middle it's it's wings past and has to swing back.

So for sure you learned over the years about the horrible history of anti-Semitism in the church and the degree to which the church cut itself off from its Jewish roots usually learned about that and even you know, separating Easter from Passover and things along those lines in Removing the Jewish identity of Jesus. So as things are recovered as people recognize the Jewishness of Jesus in the Gospels as they recognize God's ongoing purposes for Israel as they recognize it's perfectly fine for Jewish believers to live as a Jew, then things can swing little further where you say will every Jewish believer must keep all the laws of the was not right with God or they need to live like a traditional Jew or Gentile Christians are obligated to keep the law of Moses and it keeps getting more extreme.

So what we recognize as good and healthy. Number one the understanding that Jesus is this the Jewish Messiah that he doesn't abolish the law, but that he fulfills that God's purposes for Israel remain that the church has not replaced Israel and God's plan of salvation. We recognize that and we we recognize that it's perfectly fine for Jewish believers continue to live as a Jew perfectly fine for Jewish believer to observe the seventh day Sabbath. There is not a command in the New Testament to observe 1/8 day Sabbath in the first day of the week Sunday Sabbath this on a command for a Jew to become a Gentile. Upon salvation. We also recognize that in Jesus, Jew and Gentile exactly equal. Even that were distinct like male and female are distinct were exactly equal and are standing in the Lord. One is not higher than the other civil where they get the idea that Jewish believers are obligated to keep the law they would look at tax like acts 15 where Peter and Paul, and Jacob. James discuss Gentile followers of Jesus and the Torah and says okay they they they are obligated to keep this is kind of assumed the Jews will do so with the Gentile Christians are not obligated to, or Galatians 5 where Paul is telling the Galatians don't understand if you're circumcised or obligated to keep the whole loss they would say well then those who are ready, circumcised Jews, they should continue to live under the law or there was a Matthew five Jesus is whoever violates one of the least of these commandments and teaches others is least in the can. And that means you have to uphold the mall or Paul and X, 21 saying how zealous he is, for the Lord demonstrating it by by going to the temple and offering a purification sacrifice so the tax like that are put together in such a way to argue that it is mandatory for Jewish believers in Jesus today to keep the Sinai covenant. Of course I differ with that for many reasons that you would, that our relationship to the Torah has changed that we are not under it is a system of justification when not under its condemnation when not under it to bring us to the Messiah.

Galatians 3 Romans six other passages and we are now living in a new and better covenant is the Holy Spirit, right sister on our hearts. And as we see through the New Testament how we are to live, so it's perfectly fine for Jewish believer to say hey I'm a Jew. Why should I keep the seventh day Sabbath great. Hey, I'm a Jew wash at night. Keep kosher and identify with my people do great fine. Why shouldn't I keep the biblical holidays versus later holidays great good. I'm with you on all those points. The moment you say you are obligated to within every Jewish believer is obligated to, that's right have a difference and then again that can get into legalism. As you say, or putting an emphasis in the wrong place. So for those who encourage it in solidarity with our people and as a witness fine for those who say it's obligatory.

We have a difference. Thank you Dr. Brown for your erudite response.

What you are. You are very welcome sir, and obviously each of the verses I cited each of the points you made. We could go into greater depth on right and and within the messianic Jewish movement. The refined believers love the Lord were not legalists differ over over these points, they would just say it's really God's best. If you do your best to fit to live in harmony with with Torah light of the spirit of this would say that that you may be in a church you may be a messianic carnation as long as you love the Lord with the Lord lead you their disagreements among fellow Jewish believers.

But it's all within the Lord and in their other lines that we we believe are wrong to cross a thank you for your important question. I appreciate 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Russ in Salt Lake City, Utah. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hey Dr. Brown I want look no euro multiple community but I fear that limited to say this, Russ. I don't know the Jewish community looks at me is such a blessing. It been called public enemy number one by rabbis years ago because of our outreach efforts. But in truth and truth. I am standing for community and wanted to sue its best. So thank you.

Well my question or are currently going through while the tabernacle and on things like there was a couple question came up. I will call Dr. Brown probably felt number one is the grain offering in which the people were supposed to give him in the wilderness. The question came up, or did they get the grain because they probably didn't have time to take out of second questionnaire and all after the bell rang up, but the man is by the ark of the covenant was taken in about 5 feet.

The good or taken someplace or whatever the second positive how were the people that the sucker by a holy they didn't have the persecutory sprinkle blood on right so actually the second question Russ has come up recently someone asked me that identically I saw it posted somewhere.

The first question doesn't come out much and and also the worry about them being answered over and over so with regard to the second question, there is only once a year when the priest would go into the holiest place of all. Right. And then he would sprinkle the blood of the atonement offerings that the goat for the. The one vote that was killed and his blood was run to the holiest place of all. On the day of atonement and Yom Kippur. According to Leviticus 16 so there was no mercy seat there. There was no Ark of the covenant.

There so what did he do, you would understand.

He would just sprinkle it in that place, but would not tell you the whole time that something was missing. In other words, as you're doing it wouldn't be that, wouldn't there be a recognition entire time. The second Temple stood that something was missing and it even a further witness to redemption needing to come to the Messiah so that's that's as best as we would understand that the ritual still carried out but he did not have the ark of the covenant over which the blood would be sprinkle so would be sprinkle within the holiest place of all the colors, shame. But there would be no mercy seat for atonement cover their as far as where the Israelites got the grain from the Bible is not explicit. There is the great question of why was there no meat to eat when they had so much cattle one answer would be that the cattle was being reserved for animal sacrifice, or for other things, milk and things like that.

The females, but the Bible doesn't address that directly as to where they got the grain from it. It's not explicit now. Bear in mind that the plan was not for them to be in the wilderness for 40 years.

They were passing through the laws and commandments were given another supposed to march on. Take the promise land so immediately. They'll have grain did they have grain to offer the entire time in the wilderness Bible is say to get even say that the grain was an ideal part of the law but they could not practice it until they got into the land that was you could speculate in these different ways. The bottom line is, the plan wasn't to stay there. The plan was get the laws get everything set up tabernacle built etc. now let's go and conquer the promised land and then you have all the grain that you want. Hey, thank you for the questions. They're very interesting.

In fact, we only have limited information to give the answers that I get the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much to our take your phone calls and they're the ones that bring in that beautiful Jewish music ever thoroughly drew through them and think. Thanks for the great job team 866-348-7884 by the way is always getting ready yesterday about the travel again doubling over the weekend into the next week and and broadcasters in different locations. I was getting vitamins together things that I take with me and supplements and grabbing some of my trusted Dr. Mark Stigler supplements you get them to the best I know to get it in in a wide variety of areas. Really good health supplements so they supplement my healthy lifestyle and want you to check them out naptime vitamin but there are three reasons. First, there good for you you you find some really good health supplements.

There second you get a 10% discount is listening to the broadcast third with every purchase you make. Dr. Stigler turns around and donates backdoor ministry generously so go the vitamin

Let's get you healthy physically as well as spiritually, which is our ultimate goal right with that we go to the phones to Halley in Fort Worth Texas walking to the line of fire. Dr. Browning, Michael, you bet I'm a Christian, 25% by line only lawn I don't know that my family and doing deep dive in to my room and what I'm finding over and over again in the majority of the Jewish bloodline today are cannot be viewed which are of European origin, I understand that the Israelites were dispersed back in the biblical day. My question is where is the disconnect between the Hebrew and the Israelites of the Bible and the Jewish Ashkenazi bloodline today. Yeah so it's a question that comes up a lot do so. Disconnect is it simply a matter of of migration, assimilation, intermarriage, things like that. I would difference one point the when you just say the majority of Jewish bloodline Ashkenazi if if you went to Israel today you find a high percentage that have Sephardi background of some have other background as well. So in America the great great majority of those who recognize that they are Jewish, they would have an Ashkenazi bloodline supposed to spark my wife Nancy was basically all Ashkenazi. I was 90% Ashkenazi, 10% Sephardi group.

When we did DNA tests. If you go to Europe to find it similar to that as well is the, the more you get towards the Middle East. The more you get towards Africa. Things like that. Then it will shift a lot and you will find much more Sephardi and other background as well, but pictures will have the best that we can tell as the Jewish people were scattered around the world right so so some of this goes back 2700 years. Some of it goes by 2500 plus and then ongoing soon because by 2000 1800 years. The scattering is has continued all through the centuries. What happened was that those that we traced back to Ashkenazi got got down according to studies of red DNA studies. They got down to fairly small numbers of population.

So was it was a cluster group as opposed to millions of people at that point. So many of them have now assimilated and they've lost all connection to the Jewish people for many many centuries. That's that's completely gone. So when you intermarry out right you you now lose touch with your people, your history and over a period of time. Your origins or loss listless just take ethnically people arrived from China. They come into America right and there their kids now marry other kids who are Caucasian and their kids marry other kids were Caucasian. You have a few more generations. There is no hint anymore of of Asian look of Chinese ethnicity at all. So it's the same with those who were practicing Judaism. They now intermarry with those who are not in them within a few generations that Jewish identity is completely what happens to this day with a Jews in America that if they intermarry out and then I practicing Judaism themselves within a few generations they lost all connection to history. On the flipside, what if people marry in, what if they now convert what if there a Jews scattered in Africa and they begin to intermarry with the surrounding peoples who are now darker skin than them right. That lets it. Israelites was a scattered will be more like brown skin safe. You want to just pick something generic here so they now begin to intermarry with these people who are converting to Judaism and join the Jewish people same in Europe. You got all these Caucasians were later scanned. They are now intermarry with the Jewish people converting into Judaism as these numbers multiply multiply multiply you end up looking to repeat European but still maintaining your Jewish identity, so that's what happened with the Ashkenazi over period of time. They multiplied and grew and multiplied and grew as practicing Jews as people born to practicing Jews, but at one point there was a lot of intermarriage in and that's where the shift came from. From what we been a more Middle Eastern identity now to a more Caucasian identity that makes sense to you, and I cannot bloodline connected. He grew bloodline or a day at our back account absolutely so absolutely know that there's no there's no question about that.

It's just that it gets like into a little funnel for little while. Right. So if you think of just think of this, you have the tribes of Israel.

But over period of time they become united under the title of Jews. So in in New Testament times you were called a Jew if you trump from the tribe of Levi. If you're there from the tribe of Osher if you're from the tribe of Judah Benjamin right you get different people in the New Testament and their tribal identified identities are mentioned specifically in the text that they're all called Jews because that was the general broader description and and then you have Ashkenazi Jews who may have less name of: four Levi and their tradition tells them that they are descendents of the tribe of Levi. Specifically, descendents from the priestly line of Aron and DNA has confirmed that that they all kind of go back to this common source several thousand years ago in the Middle East, etc. so the other. There's no question that the SCSI bloodline continues from the Israelite bloodline right if it's just a comes under the umbrella heading of Jews because that's how the twilight 12 tribes became galvanized a thank you for the call for time is short. Tell you what Adam in Marshall North Carolina. How far we can get the let's start welcome to the line of fire around outbound part. I was hoping to have a good long wait yet but most answer is test.

It's tough to have a good long conversation short radio broadcast but but throughout the in brief, at least good while and I just jumped on here and looking to not black carbon one for talking about observant of the Torah and told my day rather than answer your question, I would hope to have a conversation back and forth as regards to my I guess my question would be, should go worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and have faith in Yeshua explain to me why they should not walk according to Torah course because God gave us a new and better covenant issue with the silverware. It was written on my Jeremiah 31 you yeah so so the incognito want to do it correct right so G1 offer blood sacrifices noted on and I don't want to eat pork guider I want to do not judge you want to G1 offer blood sacrifices because that was for the tour. No okay why not because there is no temple, there is no libido. But what if there wasn't that. What if there was a temple standing which one offer blood sacrifices well here in about 30 command. I feared in Isaiah 55 worry when you short is raining during the millennial reign of that right right now right now is this a temple standing which one offer blood sacrifices. No, not at this point I have exactly here exactly oak exactly so so that's that that's the whole point that under the new and better covenant.

We are not required to call to do some of the things written in the Torah because given us a new and better way to Yeshua.

So the moral commitments of the Tory takes to a higher level.

Everything having to do with priesthood with approach to God. The sacrificial system even returns in his own. Priesthood had correct exactly right right system to listen tell you what. Hopefully we can have this conversation another time because I've got just a handful of seconds.

We can have an intelligent conversation back and forth on this obscene Canticle show on but feel free to call in another day Thursday or Friday would normally work for this and will have our conversation you've obviously thought about this and we can have a good intelligent conversation back and forth on it. Fair enough. But as I write. I saw in the description you wanted to have a discussion, but I wanted to bring Jan nonetheless. At least we had a few seconds right so hopefully to be resumed, and anyone can get through today only 15 minutes from now were starting our weekly exclusive YouTube chat for 15 Eastern time at ask Dr. Brown SK dear Brown on YouTube.

Let's continue our interaction. There the bus another program powered by the Truth Network

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