Should Christians Drink Alcohol?

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Is it right for a Christian to drink alcohol? What about a Christian leader? We'll talk about it today. It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Hey friends, it's our pledge here. Our pledge, you take time with us every day and you will get a dose of moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884.

This is where you get to weigh in. It's Tuesday and we're making this a Theology Tuesday again. We're focusing on a biblically based subject. This one has to do more with practice than theology alone. The question is, is it right for a Christian to drink alcohol?

What about a Christian leader? What about what kind of alcohol? What about how much alcohol? What about private versus public consumption? What's your take?

866-34-TRUTH. This is a subject of real relevance. When I wrote about it recently, the article got shared a whole lot, got a lot of comments, and I was amazed to hear how many... I would love to hear from you if you differ with me. I would love to hear from you if you think that nobody else has the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her own body or what is inside of her body. I would love to hear from you if you think it is an intrusion of society, especially of men, to say, well, we're pro-life and therefore the mother does not have the right to abort her baby.

That would be for any circumstances. Obviously, if you're in a situation where the mother is dying as a direct result of a pregnancy and you have to choose one life over another, that's a separate ethical question, but it's not the question we're dealing with 99.99% of abortions that take place. And it's interesting that the large majority of Americans today do not want abortions in the second trimester and on. I mean, there has been a shift in thinking.

Why? Because there's more consciousness of the humanity of the baby in the womb. Ultrasounds, those have helped men and women see the reality of the baby in the womb.

And not only so, the fact that children, babies are surviving at younger and younger ages with medical help that can be provided and you realize, wow, that is a little child in there and that child could readily be aborted in other circumstances. So there's been a change of thinking. But I want to address some misconceptions. And again, if you think I'm wrong, this is one reason we pay to be on live talk radio so that folks who differ can call in and tell me why. Folks who differ can express their differences.

866-348-7884. Okay. I want to dismantle some leftist lies about abortion. I wrote an article last night. I love the taste of this. I got used to it, but I drank to get drunk. That was it. When I got saved and I repented of drunkenness, I had no reason to drink. And then the church got saved and had a culture of total abstaining.

So I did it. You say, well, have you ever had wine with communion? Yeah. A few occasions over the years had that tiny, tiny drop of wine with communion when that's what was served with communion. Or if I was at a, say a Passover meal or something like that, where they'd be drinking wine, I'd have the tiniest drop. But my practice has been total abstaining in all circumstances outside of those.

And that's it. And it's not an issue for me. Now, Nancy, when she got saved, she used to drink before she was a believer and she loved the taste of alcohol. So for that reason, because she was drawn to it and used to get drunk, then she quit and totally abstained as well. So we had different reasons for totally abstaining. But now as a leader, I believe it's a good practice. I believe it's the best practice. So many people stumble.

And let me say this. If you say, well, we do these outreaches, you know, beer and Bible, you may have good intentions. In other words, you may genuinely think, well, we're going to get people in that wouldn't normally come in.

But at what price? Because you're also going to destroy the lives of others. You're also going to get people come in who used to be alcoholics, who've been free, and they see you drinking. They think if it's okay for you, it's okay for me. This is not an isolated situation. I have heard report after report after report after report for decades. And once I wrote the article and posted it, comment after comment after comment after comment telling me the exact same thing. And some people say that was me.

That's what happened to me. I went into this meeting. I went to a restaurant.

I had been free for 10 years. I saw the pastor having a drink. I thought, well, if he can, he's a man of God. I can. And maybe the pastor's never got drunk in his life. Fine. But he's in a public place. He does it. This other believer says, I guess if it's okay for him, I can have a drink.

And they fell back. I've heard it over and over to the complete destruction of the lives of some believers. And Paul's very plain in Romans 14 about this.

He says, don't even drink wine if it's going to cause your brother to stumble. If you have that liberty, keep it to yourself between you and God. When I see leaders in particular, believers in general, but leaders in particular, boasting about their liberty, publicly displaying their liberty, I say either they are ignorant of the consequences of what they're doing, which is possible, but hard to believe, or they're immature or they're carnal.

There is no good spiritual reason for it. It's not like, well, I'll follow Jesus, but only if I can have a drink. And now that I know that I could drink a little, I'll follow Jesus. No, that's not a disciple. That's someone trying to make a deal with God. We have to be willing to give up everything, even our own lives, to be his disciple. And it's absolutely worth it. When I see people, when I see a culture that celebrates their freedom to do certain things like drink alcohol, I can guarantee you that's a culture with all kinds of failures, compromise, and collapses about to happen.

I can guarantee you. You say, no, Mike, you don't get it. We're reacting against legalism. Legalism has destroyed lives. You know how many people have dropped out of church because of legalism? I agree. Legalism is deadly.

Absolutely. Measuring a believer by what you don't do, making that the sum total of your spiritual life. I don't go to the movies. I don't drink. I don't smoke. And that defines my spirituality.

That's a big mistake. And yes, legalism has destroyed many lives and legalism has driven many people out of the church. But the solution to legalism and the antidote to legalism is not license. It's not cultivating the flesh. It's intimacy with Jesus. It's being loved by God. It's cultivating a deep relationship with the Lord based on his grace and goodness, out of which we now love to be in his presence and serve him and live discipline in our lives.

That's the answer to legalism. Not having a culture, yeah, we talk about the latest movies that just came out. Some of them got all kinds of skin flicks and sex scenes, but our pastor talks about it from the pulpit. He's got no business watching them. And if you made a mistake in watching them, then you ask God for forgiveness. You don't publicly talk about it, boast about it, except to say, I blew it.

So I've watched this now, it's over 50 years. Now, I minister around the world and there are different cultures. You go to India, it's not a debate. Christians in India, committed Christians, don't drink alcohol, period.

Even in moderation, they don't. You go to Africa, by and large, same thing there. You go to Europe, you go to, say, Italy, where people grow up having a glass of wine with me. I've been with many fine believers. They've had a glass of wine with a meal.

Their whole team does, you know, missions team, things like that. And drunkenness is not an issue with them. I am not pronouncing judgment on others in other settings. I'm talking now, here in America, that's my focus. You translated that to your own culture. I'm talking about here in America, where there is so much drinking to excess, so much drunkenness, and so many in the church come out of alcoholism. We need to put their well-being ahead of our little preference.

And again, Paul says, if you have that liberty, have it to yourself, you and God alone. Do you agree? Do you disagree? We're going to go to the phones in a moment, but first, let me explain why I don't believe you can use the Bible to say, based on the Bible, based on Scripture, that we must all totally abstain from alcohol. I do not believe you can make that case, all right?

Even for leaders, I don't believe you can make that case in terms of a divine command. So yes, Noah gets drunk on wine in Genesis. So you've got that mentioned.

That's prominent. He gets drunk. So we know, even if the wine was less fermented, then you can still get drunk on. Noah does. But here, look, Genesis 27 37. Isaac blesses Esau, and I've got it up on my accord and software here. Isaac blesses Esau, and part of the blessing is, he says, he's talking about how he blessed Jacob. He said, I blessed him with grain and wine.

That's how I've sustained him, grain and wine. So this was a good thing. If you look, oh, say, in Deuteronomy chapter 7 13. I'm just giving a sampling of verses in ancient Israel. God's going to bless the fruit of your ground, your grain, and your wine, and your oil.

So this was, this was a good thing. Proverbs 14 26, when you were enjoying your tithe before the Lord, take a portion of it and buy some food and drink. It says this, you can spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves.

There's even a context where they could have strong drink and do it before the Lord. Proverbs chapter 3 verse 10. Proverbs 3 10, another promise of a blessing.

So your vats, your storehouses and your vats will overflow, including with wine. This, again, is a good promise. Ecclesiastes 10 19. Now some take it as the negative philosophy of the young leaders of the nation, but I'll just read it as is Ecclesiastes 10 19. Let me just scroll down to it.

Here we go. Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything. That may just be a carnal attitude that some have, but you know, wine gladdening life.

Song of Songs chapter 1 verse 2, let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth, for your love is better than wine. Wine's mentioned in a positive way throughout the book, throughout the book. Matthew 9 17 talks about putting new wine in new wineskins. So this was, it's not saying, hey, put marijuana in the pouches here.

No, this was something that was done, good, positive in the culture. Luke 7 33 and 34, John the Immerser is criticized because he doesn't, he fasts a lot, he doesn't drink wine, and Jesus eats and drinks, and he's called a glutton and a drunkard. So John 2, Jesus turns the water into wine at the wedding in Cana. And then 1 Timothy 3, the elder, the leader, must not be given to wine, must be moderate in drinking wine. And then Paul, we know, tells Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach sick because of his infirmities, and that was used medicinally.

So you can't say based on the Bible that we are all commanded to totally abstain from drinking. I strongly encourage it, especially for leaders, at least in public and in what you say. We'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today as we discuss the question of whether Christians should drink alcohol. Should they do it publicly? What about Christian leaders? 866-348-7884 tweeted out right before the show started, in my view, if a Christian leader boasts publicly about his or her liberty to drink, that person is either ignorant of the consequences of what they're saying or they are immature or carnal.

And I say that based on 50 years in the Lord and a lot of observing lives along the way. I have seen pastors in legalistic settings fall into sin. I have seen pastors in libertarian settings fall into sin.

There's a real enemy, and it's out to tempt and destroy. And legalism could put people into a box of false religion where you just live to perform, but you're never good enough, or you become self-righteous one extreme or the other, and then you have a collapse in that way. Or on the other side you can say, we reject legalism, we're free, and then you cater to the flesh. My question is, why on earth would you want to celebrate liberty to drink as a Christian leader as some big public thing, or cultivate it, or have gatherings where, hey, look how we drink.

Why? We know how many warnings are in scripture about drunkenness. We know how many lives have been destroyed by alcohol. We know how many Christians are former alcoholics and struggle to keep themselves clean.

What's the big deal? I'll celebrate Jesus. I'll celebrate freedom in him. I'll celebrate who he is and what it means to be his disciple 24-7. I'm not gonna celebrate, I have freedom to drink if I want to.

What's so big about that? Is that how we make disciples? Yeah, come to our church, we're cool. Yeah, smoke a little pot on the side, drink, well, you don't really get high or drunk, but yeah, we're the cool church. You don't follow Jesus to be cool.

I mean, where'd we get this from? All right, going to the phones in a moment, but let's look at another side of scripture, which is warnings about drunkenness, okay, and standards in terms of people who were not to drink. So, Leviticus chapter 10 verse 9.

Leviticus 10, 9. The priests were not to drink alcohol when they came into the presence of the Lord. Now, were Nadav and Abi who drunk?

Is that what happened? They drank too much wine and that's why they offered up unauthorized incense before the Lord and were killed by the Lord's fire. Earlier in the chapter, is that why it comes up here? There's debate among commentaries, but it's interesting that coming into the holy place in divine service before the Lord don't drink at all.

That's interesting. Numbers chapter 6 verse 3, and elsewhere in the chapter, lays out the requirement for Nazarites. They were to be fully consecrated to the Lord and one of the things in their full consecration was no drinking. Some would say, well, all followers of Jesus should live as Nazarites. I agree, I mean, obviously not to grow our hair out as men, but I agree in principle, but I can't make that a New Testament command.

I can't say the New Testament plainly says it and requires it. Daniel and his companions didn't want the king's dainties, they didn't want his food, and they didn't want the king's wine. So, there's a level of consecration involved with that. Look at Proverbs chapter 20 verse 1. Proverbs chapter 20 verse 1 says, wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, and whoever is deceived by it is not wise. There's a warning about it and being deceived by wine and strong drink. And then Proverbs chapter 23.

Proverbs 23 beginning verse 20 and then down in the chapter verses 30-31. There's a whole warning about don't lick the wine, look at the cup, oh it looks so good. No, it's going to sting you. It's going to sting you.

You're going to end up drunk, you're going to end up hurt, you're going to end up in a mess. So, these are warnings in Proverbs. How about Proverbs chapter 31 verse 4? It's not for kings to drink wine in verse 6. So, wine's for someone that's perishing, wine's for someone that's dying, but kings shouldn't be drinking wine. Priests don't drink wine in the presence of God, in the holy place. Kings shouldn't drink wine.

Romans 14 21. We've alluded to this earlier where Paul said, look, he's not just talking about anything that hangs up your brother. Well, Dr. Brown, you have a mustache and that causes me to stumble. Or Dr. Brown, you wear that black shirt today and that causes me to stumble. No, he's not talking about any and everything that we can create that we say causes someone to stumble. Lady, you're too pretty for me, that causes me to stumble.

I want you to wear a sack and cover your head as well. No, he's talking about legitimate issues within the faith where people can struggle and have different interpretations. Don't put anything in front of anyone that's going to cause them to stumble. And Paul says, Romans 14 21, that ties in with drinking wine as well.

I'm not going to do it if it's going to cause someone else to stumble. Leaders, what are you doing and boasting about your drinking culture? Where does it lead? It leads to drunkenness. It leads to carnality. It can lead to sexual sin. It leads to compromise.

It leads to lack of clarity of heart and mind. You say, well, I've never gotten drunk. And okay, then have that liberty between you and God.

Enjoy it with your family. You do it in public or you talk about it in public. It enables and emboldens others to drink. And there can be destruction that comes out of it. Ephesians 5 18, don't get drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit. It's a mentality. It's a lifestyle.

Again, I would love to hear from those who differ. I just heard from a Christian leader earlier, heard I was talking about this, said, I'm so glad. And they said, you know what?

The culture I'm seeing everywhere is this celebration of drinking, and it's leading to all kinds of drunkenness and destruction. But of course, it's no surprise there. All right, let's go to the phones.

We'll start with Carl in North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Yes, sir. Dr. Brown, how are you? Doing great.

Thank you. Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with just about everything you've said. Not long after I've been a Christian, probably a couple of years, I used to work out with a group of guys all the time, and we'd go to this little restaurant next door afterwards, and I always get a sandwich and iced tea. They would always get beer. They knew I was a Christian.

Most of them weren't. I always get beer. I always get iced tea. I used to drink beer before I was a Christian. But probably about months later down the road, I said, well, shoot, it probably won't hurt nothing to get a beer. And when I said a beer, everybody at the table and the waitress and everybody looked at me, and I changed my mind, because I could see right then I was doing a little bit of what it is I had. Isn't that something...

I mean, you're not the first to experience that many have, but it's interesting that you were expected to be different because you were a Christian. I didn't even think... I didn't think anybody would notice.

Even the waitress at the next table looked over at me. Amazing. Amazing. And obviously... Can I ask you one other brief question? Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

It's kind of... What is your idea about people that's going to stroll into the church sanctuary with Starbucks coffee and stuff like that? Okay. I don't like it, personally, but I don't judge that. Okay, that's me too. That's me too. I said something about it.

Go ahead. Yeah, so I don't like it. To me, it's overly casual. To me, I'm not there to do anything but worship God and be with my brothers and sisters, so I don't like it.

However, I don't know that person. I don't know their life. I don't know their attitude before the Lord, so I'm not going to make a wholesale judgment on them. I don't like it, personally. I would like it to be discouraged or just not allowed.

You know, if you have some water to drink during a service, if you need that, fine. But I do not make a personal judgment. Really, I don't. I just withhold it.

I don't know the person. I don't know their life. I don't know what the role coffee has or doesn't have in their life, but I don't like it. I'd rather not see it.

It's one thing in a house, you know, we're sitting together having a meal and then going from there to worship, but I don't like it, but I make no judgment on the individual because of it. Hey, thank you for calling and asking. All right, tell you what, we've got a bunch of callers I want to get to you on the other side of the break, but I don't want to cut anyone off, all right? So I'm just going to draw attention to a couple of articles and then come back.

Let's see here. We in Booth, now, remember Salvation Army, they worked a lot with people coming right out of the bars. They even used tunes that were sung in the bars, put gospel music to them, as other Christian leaders have done in the past. So they're marching past the bars, singing tunes that are familiar, but with gospel lyrics, and many, many alcoholics came to faith.

So it's just interesting. This is in 1800s, early 1900s in England. William Booth, there's a website, nodrinking.com. I'm not familiar with the website, nodrinking.com, and they emphasize the call for us to be sober, and there they have an article by William Booth, Drinking Not Safe for Anyone. He says, the thing is evil in itself.

Make your children understand that it is not safe for them or anybody else to take strong drink in what is called moderation. That's William Booth. His wife, Catherine Booth, also on the same website, nodrinking.com, had a message, drinking alcohol versus Christianity.

Drinking alcohol versus Christianity. That was Catherine Booth. And then Pastor Jamie Morgan wrote this for Charisma News, oh, when was it?

Back about seven years ago. It was the first article she wrote, and the Lord had basically laid it on her heart, watch what I can do, watch how I can promote a message. And she asked the Lord to do it, got this idea, just jot it down, 50 reasons why she doesn't drink, and the thing became the most viral article in the history of Charisma News.

It's everybody shocked. She was unknown, basically, I mean, outside of her immediate circles of ministry. So, that's an interesting read as well. The story behind it is even more interesting. I had written an open appeal to Joel and Victoria Osteen about some other issues, and that had gone viral in maybe, I don't know, four or five hundred thousand shares it had gotten, and that was the most viral one there.

I think Jim Garlow wrote one that they've gotten a million shares, but Jimmy Morgan's got more shares than anybody, just took off. Is it because God was backing the message? It's a fair question, fair question. In any case, check these out, we'll come back with your calls. Feel free to differ.

That's why we have open phones. 866-34-TRUTH. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. My own position when it comes to drinking alcohol is, one, you cannot use the Bible to prove that all Christians must abstain from alcohol in moderation. Number two, I believe it is a great practice, especially for Christian leaders to abstain. If they don't abstain, they can drink in moderation and it's not a problem for them, then do that in private and don't make a public issue out of it. And if you know people close to you, loved ones, friends that you spend time with, that they struggle with alcohol, they've been alcoholics, they've been back and forth on it, if you know that's the case with them, then, hey, for their sake, don't drink around them. If they're over your house a lot, I know of people that fell back because they opened someone's refrigerator, a house where there are a lot, it's like, oh, they got beer. They got wine. It's like, well, it's okay for them. I guess it's okay for me.

And they fell back. So that's a liberty we willingly restrict ourselves on for the good of others. 866-34-TRUTH. Just want to read this note that was sent to me by a leader who saw I was going to be talking about this today. I'm very excited to hear your broadcast today, even though consuming a small amount of alcohol, it's not a sin. I'm not sure why so many Christian leaders so freely broadcast and promote their liberty. There is such a culture of drinking and drunkenness prevailing in the body in various streams in the name of, quote, liberty for those who imbibe versus, quote, bound by religious spirit for those who don't.

I personally wish every believer would abstain for love's sake, praying for you. I appreciate that. Yeah, this notion that we're free. How do you show your freedom? After the service, you go to bar and get drunk. Listen, I know Christian leaders who've done that. I was talking to a pastor the other day, and he was really pleased to see this. There are scores and scores of pastors who look to him as a spiritual father, and he said he went out with some pastors and the wine bill, or the alcohol bill, at the end of their dinner. It was not a hundred guys. This is a few guys.

It was over $1,800. And he's just looking like, what in the world are you doing? 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go over to Russ in Salt Lake City. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Hey, thanks, Dr. Brown.

I just agree with you on all the points you're talking about. I am retired military, and while I was stationed in Germany, we went to some friend's house, and so he offered me a beer, and not being a prude, I went ahead and took it, and I took one drink of it, and I said, wow, that really tastes good. So when I got home, I went down and I talked to the Lord, and I said, Lord, can I drink beer? And he said, and it was just like me talking to you, he said, yes.

And I was just totally ecstatic. And then that same thing, he said, under the following conditions. Number one is, it will not be ministering my word. Number two is, it will not be a stumbling block to anybody else. And number three is, maximum material.

Maximum of two. And I have always held that, even until this day, even though I don't drink, that I do not condemn those that do. Got it.

So let me ask this, Russ. If in your mind, you're a Christian leader, you're ministering the word, people know you for that. In your mind, if you go out, say, to a restaurant, you don't know everybody in the restaurant, but there could be people that know you. Would your practice be, lest there's a potential stumbling block, I won't drink in public? Exactly.

I would not, if I was a minister or anything like that, I would never use it as a stumbling block. Got it. And that's, listen, again, I have heard the same story over and over and over and over. Go to Ask Dr. Brown. Thank you, Russ, for calling in. I appreciate that very much.

866-348-7884. Go to the Ask Dr. Brown Facebook page, okay? And scroll down till you find the article that I wrote about this and look at the comments. You'll be shocked at how many people have had the identical experience and how many people, either in their own lives or someone they know or love, fell back into drinking, got bound, destroyed their lives, had a setback, however long it was, because of the liberty of other Christians. Now, let me make it plain again.

If I'm out with you, if we're at a restaurant, and you say to me, do you mind if I drink? That's between you and God. I am not here to judge you. I'm here to give you my convictions and share them.

But when I'm out, it doesn't stumble me. I have no interest in it. And the people that I've been with, say in America, they haven't been like known Christian leaders. If someone asked me, does it bother you if I drink? Let's say I'm out with a well-known pastor. Does it bother you if I drink? It just doesn't bother me personally. I'm not judging you, but I wouldn't do it for the sake of others that might know me here.

I'd be honest in that regard. But I'll say it once more. I do not believe you can use the Bible to demonstrate that my lifestyle, total abstaining since I've been saved, is what God requires. I do not believe that is taught plainly in the Bible. At the same time, I believe the antidote for legalism is not license, but a fresh love relationship with the Lord and intimacy with him.

That's the antidote for legalism. All right, we go back to the phones. John in Atlanta, welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Brown, thank you for taking my phone call. I found you on YouTube about two weeks ago, and I'm definitely enjoying your videos. I agree with pretty much everything you say so far. Appreciate that. So I was calling in, just got back in the truck, I was driving, got you on YouTube, and definitely agree with you about not being a stumbling block for your brother, because I have events out at my property, I'll have guys from church come out, we'll have campfires, you know, fellowship, and, excuse me, we only drink if it's the core group that we know we're responsible. I know they don't have an issue, there's nothing going on, you know, we have just a few microbrews, that's it. That's only if it's the core people that we know each other well. When there's other men in the group we're not sure about, we're having coffee, lemonade, you know, other drinks, because I desire the fellowship and the bonding with brothers in Christ more than a beer.

So I'm just very, very careful about that. And a question I have for you is how you feel about certain churches that, to get an even somewhat low-level leadership, they actually have you sign documentation that you will not drink at all. I feel like it's almost like a cop-out, it's just the easy way, because I'm always looking at speaking with new Christians, people new to the faith, and a lot of people are not Christians, they know the story of Jesus turning water into wine, and Jesus and the disciples drinking, so that when you come at that angle that, oh no, we don't drink, you know, it's taken away from Jesus almost in a way that, what do you mean? Like, he did this, and we're not allowed to, it's more to explain. So basically, my question is, like I said, what do you feel about the churches when you sign documentation that you will not drink at all, period?

What's your thoughts? Right, so if this is to be in some type of leadership or service within the church, I have zero problem with it, because it's a standard they set that they feel good about and they feel safe with. That has nothing to do with talking to an unsafe person or a brand new believer, we're talking about someone that's mature enough to be serving in leadership or in some professional role within the church, so I have zero problem with it. You know, you can require that anyone serving on that level has to tithe. I don't believe it's a New Testament command that everyone has to tithe, I believe it's a great principle, but a church can set up whatever standard it wants and say, this is what we're comfortable with, but here's how I'd reply if someone said, well, I found out this church has a policy for leaders that you're not allowed to drink, but Jesus turned water into wine, I'd say, yeah, we're not telling you what you can and can't do, drunkenness is sinful for sure, the Bible's against that, but we know a lot of people struggle with alcohol and if they see a leader drink, it empowers them to drink, so we just don't want to even have that as an issue and it's an easy thing for us to give up because we love other people, so when it's understood it's based on love, it's based on just like what you're doing, it's no big deal, somebody else joins your core group and you say, hey, by the way, when we have others in, we don't drink for these reasons, hey, people can understand that, and I'd also say, you know, it's a little different culture then in Jesus' day than today, but the big thing is, we're not mandating this for every person, I'll give you an example, John, students coming to our ministry school, when they came to be trained, we said, hey, you're consecrated here, this is like Navy Seal, discipline, you're gonna have to live things out, et cetera, so we said we have certain standards that we want to be your standards for life based on the Bible, we have other standards that are our own convictions, and while you're here, you're gonna live by our convictions, you know, just like if you have a curfew, or if you have a time you have to be there in the morning for prayer, because your student's being trained, so we said from the moment you're accepted until you graduate, we want you to live by these principles, so not curfew when they're out of school, but one of them was no drinking, and we said, you may have a different conclusion, it may be something you do for life or not, but just while you're with us, it's just one of our standards that we all live by as leaders, and we're asking you to do, and if someone was not willing to come to our school, based on that, we'd say, well, you're really not the kind of person we're looking for, because if these are issues to you, then you don't have the right attitude, but again, for an unsafe person or a new believer, we'd say the Bible forbids drunkenness, but we just set the standard for our leaders, because we don't want anyone to get a wrong idea or get drunk because of our example, so that's all it is, make it really simple, all right? Yeah, yeah, definitely, like my church, whenever we have sanctioned events, any sanctioned event by the church, there's zero alcohol, there's no ifs, ands, or buts, because you have more people that are new to the church, yes, yes, exactly, so that's, just be very careful.

Yep, and look, it's just, again, I know too many people whose lives have been destroyed, or I've heard the story from the second witness to it, the person that had the drink and found out afterwards what happened to others, it's love, love that compels us. Hey, thank you for the call. All right, what are you doing April 14th? April 14th? He said, what, not, not ashamed of Jesus, National Not Ashamed of Jesus Day, where we tell the world around us, we're here, we're not ashamed, we love Jesus, and we love you, so go to notashamedofjesus.org, notashamedofjesus.org, pastors and leaders, there's a whole kit for you there with more information, you can read, get more info, all believers go in there, there's more information for you to get, you get different ideas, ways to inspire one another, would you post this?

Could I ask you to do that? I believe it's a God thing, we shall see how it goes, but can I ask you to do that on your social media, whatever feeds you have, post notashamedofjesus.org, and encourage folks, let's get on board, let's make a very public and beautiful witness, and April 14th is our way to push back against cancel culture with liberty and freedom in the Lord. We'll be right back, take some more calls, stay right here. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, we're back, we're taking some more of your calls on the subject of Christians and drinking alcohol. Again, I would welcome calls from folks who differ with me or think I'm missing the point. I'm sure everyone has been in virtual agreement, but we're not trying to speak in an echo chamber here. Let's go to Berkeley in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Welcome to The Line of Fire.

Yes sir, thank you for taking my call. I'm another one to say I'm in total agreement with you, but my question is, when this, you know, does come up in conversation, people always, well, almost always say, well, Jesus drank wine. Why can't I drink wine? So how would you answer that?

I mean, can you give me some advice how to answer that? Yes, yes, and it's a very fair question. As best as we can tell, he drank wine. I mean, certainly at the Last Supper, he drank wine, but as best as he can tell, he would have drank wine as was customary with meals or with special occasions or holy days or feasts or things like that, and we know he changed water into wine in Cana of Galilee. One answer is, well, wine was different then, it wasn't as fermented. That seems to be true, but either way, people could get drunk.

There were many warnings about getting drunk, so it was still a danger. My simple answer would be that the culture was different, that it was a culture in which wine was pretty much universally drunk with meals or as a part of life or in religious ceremonies, and it's not our culture now. We have a culture with much more alcoholism, we have a culture with many former alcoholics in the church, and therefore what we have to do is follow Paul's guidelines that he lays out in Romans 14 where he says, hey, I won't eat meat, I won't drink wine, if that causes my brother's symbol. By eating meat, it's because not that they were vegetarians or vegans, but because meat that you would buy in the marketplace may have been sacrificed to an idol.

And even though Paul knew that doesn't mean anything, it's just meat, someone else might think, well, you're eating meat and that was sacrificed to an idol, and that's bad and wrong, and they would stumble over it. So because of that, the principle was don't even drink wine if it's going to cause someone to stumble. So simple answer, it's a different culture. It's a different culture, a different way of life. It was not encouraging people or opening the door for them to be alcoholics. Just as I've mentioned being in Italy where, you know, you're having dinner with a family and you've got, you know, maybe a 12-year-old and they're having a little glass of wine and it's just, it's been a way of life, and you do have drunkenness but you don't have it on the same level, or alcohol abuse on the same level in some of these countries that you do in America. And, you know, the other thing would be, hey, great question, but let's just ask this.

Do you think there are people in the church that are former alcoholics or who struggle with alcohol? Yes, should we consider them? Yeah, so shouldn't that be the question, you know, as opposed to what Jesus did at Why Can't We? Well, we can. We can. We're commanded not to be drunk and to only use alcohol in moderation. So we can drink, but here's why we choose not to. I'm free to, but I'm free not to. Here's why I choose not to.

Answer it in that way, all right? Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

All right, let's go over to Jenny in Indiana. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call, Dr. Brown.

Sure thing. I just, I'm kind of coming at this with sort of a different perspective. My brother, four years ago, his life was cut short due to alcoholism.

He was a PK, preacher's kid, and now me and my husband pastor, and of course, we abstained from alcohol knowing, you know, that we're examples. People looked at us, and I just never know who may be looking at us or, you know, who we're surrounded by, who may be struggling with something that we don't know about, you know. And so I guess my struggle with this, and, you know, sometimes I don't always have the right answer, and I'm coming from it probably a little more emotional with it being so close to home. But, you know, a lot of friends and leaders who fight so hard on the topic to drink as if it were the most amazing drink they could ever drink in their life. And so my question, you know, is often, is it really about the taste, or is it, you know, something else? But a lot of times we get the question, well, you know, some people struggle with obesity and overeating, so do I just not eat in front of them, you know, and so we get a lot of those kind of things that come back at us. But, you know, so that's, I just want to kind of bring that perspective, of course, as an agreement with you. Yeah, I appreciate it, and sorry for the things that do strike so close to home.

Number one, I am convinced that when people fight for this liberty and make it a big issue, that something is wrong. Again, as I've said through the broadcast, I understand people are burned and hurt by legalism. I understand they turn away from God. I understand they leave the church because of legalism. I get it.

I understand that. As I've said, the antidote to legalism is not license, it's intimacy with the Lord. It's knowing the love of the Father. It's understanding God's grace.

Years back when I was teaching a lot about the abuses of hyper-grace, I would first teach about the beauties of true grace, knowing that many believers don't understand grace and don't understand the love of the Father. But when I see people fight for this, like, what are you fighting for? Look, it'd be one thing if there was this new teaching that if you're married, once you have a child, that you're not allowed to be intimate with your spouse the rest of your life.

But you'd say, okay, that is an abuse, that is wrong, that is something beautiful and healthy and wonderful that God gives in a relationship. But to make it about having a drink, that you're going to fight for that or it's that important. So if the taste of it, if having a drink is that big to you, something's wrong.

I start there. But I'm almost sure that in the vast majority of cases, it's not even about the taste of the drink, but about this, quote, liberty and being free from religion and free from bondage and free from tradition. And I have not yet in 50 plus years seen a single example of a church that is a culture of throwing off religious tradition, of throwing off the spirit of religion, of throwing off bondage to, quote, man-made rules. And that's what they're saying. I have not in 50 years, at least in all my experience in the States, ever seen a single church where it went well for them, where it produced holiness, where it produced discipline.

I've never once seen it. And I don't just assume it's always going to go that way. There was many times like, well, maybe, you know, maybe they are a free, and every time it ends up in shipwreck, in disaster. And the problem is you can see it coming and you warn against it.

You're just religious, man. You're just trying to put us into bondage. And worst of all, in many cases, there's open drunkenness. It's like, okay, you've already crossed the line.

You know this is not a line to cross. Okay, so what about obesity? Yeah, obesity is wrong. Now, there are many people that hate being obese. I would imagine most people who are obese hate being obese. Many recognize that their lifestyles are contributing to it, but that's a real weakness in the church that we don't teach against gluttony, and we don't model self-control in eating. And it is a weakness, and it is a problem. And I'll say this in a heartbeat. Okay, so I only eat healthily now.

It's going on eight years by God's grace. He transformed me. But otherwise, I never, I never thought twice about going out to a restaurant, getting every unhealthy thing, you know, it's a special night out, right? Every unhealthy thing, you know, unhealthy appetizers, and then unhealthy meal, then unhealthy dessert. I never thought twice about it or that it would cause someone to stumble. But if I realized it, if I thought about it back then, and if I say, you know, other people here, oh, let's just say this. I think I would have had the sense that if you were going out to meal with me and said, look, I'm really struggling with my weight, and I'm having a hard time here, and it's just so hard for me to be in a restaurant, say, hey, tell you what, I'm going to eat something healthy so we can be strong together. I hope I would have had the sense to say that then.

Certainly now, you better believe it. So we don't need to drink alcohol, but we do need to eat and drink. So that's the difference. So if I'm concerned about causing someone to stumble, I'm going to eat in a healthy way in public, and that's how I also eat in private.

That's my lifestyle now. But their analogy isn't even right. Well, if people struggle with obesity, then what, I shouldn't eat? Well, if you want to help them not struggle, then eat in a healthier way. Set a better example. No one's saying don't eat. And again, what is Paul's word on this?

He's explicit. If you have this liberty, have it to yourself before God, but don't cause someone else to sin because they'll be emboldened by your liberty, and as a result of it, do something which may not be sin for you, but it's sin for them. Is that for the sacred calling to be in gospel ministry, for the sacred calling to be used by God, for the sacred calling to minister God's words to other people and be his representatives, is it that much to say, to have that privilege, just don't drink in public and let your private practices be private?

Is that so much to ask? I mean, most of us would cut off our limbs for the privilege of ministering the gospel. How much more a little sacrifice like this, when people fight it and aren't willing, something is fundamentally wrong.

I'm convinced of it. And may God open hearts and minds because there are a lot of casualties that don't need to be out there. And may God bless you and your husband as your minister. Thank you. Thank you. Those are great points and we appreciate you so much. Thank you so much.

I appreciate it. All right, friends, we're out of time. Talk about it. Health, have you visited vitaminmission.com this week? No? This month? No?

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