Should We Support Ukraine if Zelensky Doesn't Share All Our Values?

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Why on earth is some Christian saying that God is using Putin to cleanse Ukraine of immorality? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to The Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you.

866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. A little later in the show, I'm going to give you some encouraging news about cultural pushback, things we've been talking about for years and years saying that those on the radical left will overplay their hand. Well, it's happening in front of our eyes.

I want to bring you some encouragement, some updates on that. But first, a very interesting situation unfolding in the midst of the tragic loss of life in Ukraine right now, in the midst of the bombings, in the midst of the war with Russia invading Ukraine. There's a very interesting narrative that has developed, and it is very disturbing to me as well. And it is basically saying that somehow God is using Vladimir Putin to cleanse Ukraine of immorality or to bring judgment on Ukraine because of its increasingly liberal values. And this is Putin standing up for what's right and Putin standing up for ethics and morality, and that's why he's slaughtering these Ukrainians.

Now, if you think that Putin has justification for his actions, if you think that, in fact, there is a good reason for Putin to be doing what he's doing, a good moral reason for Putin to be doing what he's doing, by all means, give us a call. 866-34-truth, 866-34-87-884. Now, that is a view that I categorically reject and differ with. But if we can have a civil conversation about it, by all means, call me and present your contrary viewpoint.

And I got thinking about this more and more. The more I'm seeing Christians posting things about this, or conservative leaders posting things, and I'm thinking, okay, where are they getting this from? I'm looking at the same data. I'm looking at the news reports from different angles. I went online, oh, probably a couple of weeks ago already, to pretty much Russian state TV. It's an English-speaking station, but it's basically Russian state TV, and watched some of what was being presented there and looked at some links that a Christian from Russia wanted me to look at.

So, I've been trying to see where people are getting their different information from. Someone last week wrongly accused me of getting all my information from mainstream media, watching that. First, I don't watch TV. I watch little sports here and there, but those, I don't watch TV.

I don't watch news on TV. I get my news from reading, and then sometimes I will get certain clips and I'll watch those clips. But I'm reading from all kinds of different sources, plus I have Christian friends, leaders, those internationally who have different perspectives.

So, I'm trying to sort through all this like everybody else is. Unfortunately, today there's so much skepticism towards mainstream media, which I understood. I understand it is a deserved skepticism, because there has been so much misreporting and even, quote, fake news. But now it's just, well, if they're all saying the same thing, it must be false.

No, it's not necessarily false just because they're all saying the same thing about Russia and Ukraine. But by all means, we keep digging. We do our best to understand. So, I get sent different things challenging some of the status quo, and one of them was this video from journalist Laura Logan.

A friend sent me this link. Let's listen to what she had to say. What troubles me about the moment that we're in is that we have such a selective and a narrow reading of history. You know, President Zelensky may be Jewish, but he's not the only one in this who suffered during the Second World War, whose ancestors suffered, right? I mean, look at Putin.

How many relatives did he lose in the siege of St. Petersburg? People don't know their history. They don't know what made Vladimir Putin. And I'm not defending him. I don't need to defend Vladimir Putin. My job as a journalist is to try to understand what is the truth here. I don't like being lied to, and we're being lied to on an epic scale. When we're told your only choices, you have to be 100% with Zelensky, who's a puppet, who you can find on the internet in black stilettos and leather pants, you know, with shirtless, doing a spoof Dancing with the Stars kind of entertainment video.

That's a mock of a Ukrainian group that does this kind of satanic, occult type of music video. And I mean, Zelensky was selected, like so many of our leaders. And honestly, with big tech and with election fraud these days, we don't know how many leaders all around the world have been selected for us and weren't actually voted in. But what we do know is that there are increasing problems with technology and the digitization of our world. Because look at what's happening with COVID. Look at what has happened globally. We are fighting the same battles all over the world. To pretend that this war is about Russia and Ukraine is just a barefaced lie. Right, so when you have these radical statements being made, that it's a barefaced lie to say this is about Russia and Ukraine, whereas Lara Logan is saying, look, you can't just make it so black and white and you're totally with Ukraine, you're totally against Russia. Now it's going to be black and white, but if you say it's about Russia and Ukraine, it's a barefaced lie.

She's doing the very same thing. And then also to say Zelensky is just a puppet, right, and you can't just because there may have been election fraud and there's so much digital stuff going on behind the scenes that you have to question all election results. I could question that newscast. I could say that there are other people manipulating that and making people say certain things. I mean, how far are you going to go with it? According to everything we know, and for people on the ground who've lived in Ukraine now and served the people in Ukraine for almost 20 years now, everything they understand and nationally was understood, Zelensky was fairly elected.

Yeah, I know America's gotten involved in elections in other countries for years and tried to manipulate things or prop up one or bring down another, and other countries have done the same. I understand all that happens, but I guess this is the biggest thing that I want to raise, okay? Oh, fine, Bono had a poem, Nancy Pelosi read it basically on St. Patrick's Day, and now it's St. Zelensky.

Aside from that, I don't know anyone that's making me into a saint. Courageous? Yes. Heroic? Yes.

Bold? Yes. Fearless? Yes. Inspirational? Yes. A saint?

No! He didn't suddenly become a saint. All of his moral values didn't suddenly change. He didn't suddenly – he's a secular Jew! He didn't suddenly become a religious Jew, God-fearing and Sabbath-observing and sharing all of our moral values that we have as conservative Bible believers?

No. He's a guy that's surprising much of the world because he's known as a foul-mouthed comedian. Oh, but how can you possibly stand with Zelensky and Ukraine when he was in a video? Like, you know, bare-chested and dancing in stilettos to mock video.

So hang on. That's who the guy was before. He was a comedian. He did stupid things like that.

That's who he was. And people knew who he was. And they voted for him. Many people surprised him.

He became the duly elected president. And now he's shocking the world by showing, hey, this guy is serious. And this guy's not backing down. And this guy did not take a free pass out of the country. When we offered him an exit from the country, he said, I don't need a ride.

I need ammo. So that's the guy. We understand who he was. It's like Ronald Reagan was a, what, B-grade actor in Hollywood and became one of our greatest presidents. And here, Donald Trump, like him or not, stood for a lot of good things as president. Yeah, we all know his flaws and things, but surprisingly, he stood for a lot of good things.

He was pro-life and pro-religious liberties and stood with Israel and did a lot of good things despite his past, which I would dare say would be far worse than Zelensky's past. But here, Rolling Stone magazine, now listen, it's rare I'm going to be in agreement with Rolling Stone. But they had a response to Lara Logan's video. And here's the headline. Lara Logan, Zelensky wore leather pants, so maybe the Russian invasion isn't so bad. A little sarcasm there.

And this is what I'm hearing, though. No, no, no, no. Wait a second.

Wait a second. Remember, Zelensky supports homosexual, quote, marriage. How can we be standing with him? Zelensky supports abortion.

How can we be standing with him? And on the flip side, Russia, when they voted on the issue of gay curricula in the children's schools, when the Duma voted for, what was the vote? Yeah, 436 to 0. I may have referenced it as 404 to 0 the other day when I checked again.

436 to 0 against it in 2013. No, this propaganda will not be in our schools. So, some are saying, look, if Ukraine is for same-sex, quote, marriage, and Russia has opposed these things, and Russia has opposed gay curricula in the schools, and Ukraine, they're liberal on this, and liberal on abortion, and Zelensky's liberal on this, then maybe we shouldn't just be standing with Ukraine right now, and maybe God's involved with this and using Putin. Please, friends, did you realize how morally bankrupt that argument is?

Here, let me give you an example. America has redefined marriage in the courts. America exports gay curricula and gay activist points around the world.

America is the world leader in exporting pornography. America has slaughtered more than 60 million babies under Roe v. Wade. Let's say Russia started attacking us and slaughtering our children, slaughtering our women, slaughtering men not in combat, bombing places where people are trying to take refuge. Would we say, oh, well, God is using Putin to cleanse us of our immorality and we should not fight back, we should be appreciating what Russia's doing.

Oh, yeah, when it's your kids being blown up and your wife being blown up and your son being blown up, oh, yeah, right. Of course we're not going to think like that. Look at Israel. Aside from the very religious Jews, Israel is very liberal. Pro-abortion, pro-gay activism, various things, many, many values.

We wouldn't have higher percentage of atheists and things like that. Well, when Hamas terrorists decide that they're going to build a tunnel under an Israeli kindergarten with the goal of kidnapping or killing as many of these kids as they can, and Hamas is anti same sex marriage and Hamas holds to many of the same conservative values that we hold to. Oh, so we're going to say, well, good for Hamas.

Let them do it. Or are we going to say, what an immoral, ungodly, despicable thing? So, friends, this is a very confused argument. Check out my new article. Askdartyoubrown.org, askdartbrown.org, where I deal with this head on. Check it out, because there's more confusion here about this war and there ought not to be any moral confusion.

We'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to The Line of Fire.

Phone lines are open 866-34-TRUTH. First to weigh in on the war in Ukraine to differ with me on that. That's perfectly fine. As long as we can have a civil discussion about it, great. And then a little later in the show, we're going to be giving you some updates on cultural pushback.

But if you have an unrelated question or issue you want to raise, more broad, Bible theology, et cetera, we may get to some other calls to 866-34-TRUTH. So let me again give you an analogy, a perspective, to help us analyze the war in Ukraine. Because people say, no, there are other forces working. It's globalists working, trying to get rid of Putin. Or there are actually biolabs in Ukraine and Russia's fighting for that.

Of course, the narrative they keep using is, well, they have to denazify Ukraine. And of course, there are some right-wing Nazi groups in Ukraine, but they are very, very much marginalized. This is not the mainstream of the population. Just like in America, you do have these radical right-wing neo-Nazi groups, but they are marginalized.

They are fringe. In any case, let me give you this analogy. And I have it in my new article. Let's not get morally confused when it comes to Russia and Ukraine.

You can read it at AskDrBrown.org or Stream.org or other places that post our articles. Okay. Let's say that you're a cop. You're a police officer. You're a born-again Bible believer.

You completely reject the idea that two men can, quote, marry, right? You are on patrol, just driving around your community, doing what you do. And you drive past a church building, quote, Progressive Church. And they even hold ecumenical services with Hindu worshipers and Buddhist worshipers because we're all worshiping the same god or gods, whoever he, she, it may be, right?

That's what they hold to. And you notice the marquee in front of the building. It's got like a gay banner, you know, gay-colored banner, rainbow flag draped over it. And it's announcing the, quote, marriage of two men, right? So you reject that. You morally reject that. You say it's not a true marriage in God's sight. Even if these men think that they're making a lifelong loving commitment and doing the right thing in God's sight, they're deceived. And, you know, it breaks your heart to see this.

Okay. So, so at the same time, you see armed vigilantes, gay-hating armed vigilantes who decide they're going to take justice into their own hands. They're not going to wait for the day of judgment. They're going to kill these people committing such abominable acts. And you see them armed and ready to go in and stop shooting. What is your moral responsibility before God as a police officer and as a God-fearing man? To stop those people who want to murder.

To stop the vigilantes. It's black and white. Is that clear?

It's not disputable. There's no either or. That's your job and you know it. You know that's the morally right thing to do. The others are not breaking the law. They'll have to answer to God for the choices they've made and the lifestyle they're leading and what the church teaches. They'll all answer to God. But it's not up to us to go kill them.

God forbid. This is the same thing with this argument. Yeah, but there's immorality in Ukraine.

There's this and that. God's using Putin to cleanse things as if there wasn't immorality and sin in Russia. Either way, there are innocent people dying and there's a war happening. That does not need to happen. All right?

And I'm going to come back to this in a moment because I want to get to some calls. But there are quotes from Adolf Hitler as he appealed to conservative Christian values and he had to fight against the secularism of the society and the rising tide of immorality in the society. He appealed while at the same time persecuting other Christians.

He made those appeals. Arabia can make great appeals based on very few arrests and things like this and very little adultery because the crime is so low. Yeah, but it's based on Sharia law and legalism and not relationship to God.

And it's carried out with great violence. All right, let's have a discussion about this. 866-34-TRUTH.

Let's start with John Michael in Ontario, Canada. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Thank you so much for taking my call, Dr. Brown. And the first thing I want to say is I appreciate everything you do so much. Your ministry has been so helpful for me over the years, and I love what you do.

Thank you. On the Ukrainian issue, the thing I'm concerned with right now is the stream of information coming out from the media has been very different from what they have reported in 2014. And I am worried that people are not getting the full story of what's going on. And just so we have a...just so I'm clear here, I have a degree in political science and two in history. I have studied Ukraine since 2011, for 11 years now.

So I know a little bit of what's going on. And when you say that the Nazis are marginalized in Ukraine, that's not true. So there's a group known as Azov Battalions. They used to be a police militia. In 2018, they were formally inducted into the Ukrainian military.

They are now part of the military fighting. Their official logo has neo-Nazi rune symbols, including the Black Sun, which was developed by Nazi Germany in World War II. Many of their members wear the swastika on their helmets or have tattoos. They have been interviewed by mainstream media, including the Guardian. They identify themselves as national socialists. They said they want to fight Putin because he is a Jew.

That is a quote. They have now been formally inducted into the military. Chomsky has just given them an award for some who have fallen in battle fighting the Russians.

This has gotten to the point now where the media is now sweeping it under the rug. Simon Wiesenthal Center has condemned the U.S. for... The U.S. used to ban funding to Azov Battalion. In 2016, they lifted the ban. Simon Wiesenthal Center condemned that.

They have since reinstituted the ban in 2018, but now they're not following it. Now there's footage of NATO arming and training Azov Battalion, and there are many other groups like this. I would give the analogy that this is like inducting the KKK into the U.S. Army, where they are marching with white hoods and burning crosses. That would be the analogy that's going on in Ukraine right now. And when you say they're marginalized, recently, within a week ago, on Ukrainian TV, they put up a picture of Eichmann, and they said, we should do what Eichmann said and genocide Russian children. And we will not stop until all Russian children are annihilated. And that was on Ukrainian TV. And you're saying that this is the... So let me just back up, and I appreciate the research, Kerry, you've done. I was just looking at an article fairly mainstream the other day saying how can we be funding Azov Brigade and raising these questions about what's happening. It was pretty much mainstream. I forget what news source it was, but it was nothing hidden.

I've seen a lot of talk about this. But from what I understand, if you look at voting, if you look at national ideology, even to have a Jew as the president and with such a strong vote, it does mean that this whole, we're going in there to denazify the country is really a myth. Because the country as a whole, I don't believe for a second that the Eichmann quote reflects the attitude of the people as a whole that we want to kill as many Russian children as we can, or that there would have even been the slightest possibility of putting out a viewpoint like that to the nation before Russia attacked. So let me ask you this, in respect to the studies that you've done, on a national voting level, in terms of Nazi parties, in terms of Nazi ideology that's reflected in other parties, can you refute the idea that this is largely marginal, or do you have data that would, well here, simple thing, in terms of voting, national parties, please paint a picture for me of the Nazi demographics of Ukraine.

Certainly. So there is a political party known as Svoboda, and that means freedom in Ukrainian. They had about 10% of the vote in 2014, and they have since petered out, they have lost their steam. However, part of the issue is that their goals have become more mainstream, and so mainstream parties have been trying to rehabilitize Nazi, like collaborators, from World War II, and that includes people like Stefan van der Rohe, who formally announced that he would side with Hitler in creating a new world order and fighting with a greater Germany to free Ukraine from the USSR. This was in 1941. And his unit tragically participated in pogroms in 1941 against the Jewish people.

In one city, about 2,000 to 5,000 Jewish people perished, and his group was a part of that. Nowadays, it's mainstream to show their symbols, to participate in honoring him. They've had many marches nowadays, maybe not politically, like politicians per se, but actually I think there were. They have marched, they have praised him. Okay, so you're giving, again, I appreciate the details very much, and I'm not saying you're wrong in the presentation of details.

All I know is from the people living in Ukraine, the believers that we know, the missionaries that have been there for 18 years and work extensively with the Christian community across Ukraine, their perception and understanding is that this is very much marginalized in terms of national sympathies, and you've presented a lot with an articulate and clear-headed voice that I'm not going to try to rebut. Okay, I just encourage everyone listening to look into these specific facts. 15 seconds, is there a website or somewhere that you would like people to go that would point them in this direction? What I would really recommend for this war right now is for them to look up Dr. John Mearsheimer.

He has presented much evidence for the last eight years saying that this war has been, how do I word it, provoked. Got it. Got it. We'll tell you what, John Mearsheimer, well-known intellectual today. John Michael, I very much appreciate the call. I appreciate you laying everything out.

I have a couple of thoughts on the other side of the break, but not to rebut what you're saying, just to present some other thoughts. We'll be right back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us, friends, on the Line of Fire. As always, we seek to tackle the controversies, not to get more people listening or watching or going to our website and just trying to stir up contention, but to be your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity, to help give you the tools to stand strong and speak the truth in love, to share other perspectives with you, to let others weigh in so that we can have civil discussion here and talk to each other rather than talking past each other. My simple contention is that whatever it is that provoked Putin to invade Ukraine and however much there are other things involved in the process, that there is no actual legitimate justification for him going in and bombing Ukraine and seeking to destroy the country in so many ways or bring it under Russian control, whatever arguments are raised, that we should be standing with the people of Ukraine, not making them all into saints or godly people or making into Zelensky into a God-fearing man that shares all of our values, but rather say there is an ultimate right and wrong in terms of the invasion, and therefore we support the people of Ukraine even though there are other factors going on for sure. It's not that Putin is only evil and Zelensky is only good.

We don't want to put things in those terms. Right before the breakout, a very clear-headed call from Ontario, Canada, saying, look, when I say that Nazi ideology is largely marginalized in Ukraine, yeah, you have the far-right groups and you have the neo-Nazi groups, but largely marginalized, that it's really not true, that it's much more mainstream. Of course, it begs the question as to how you could have a Jew elected as president. That's a big question with Nazi ideology. But in any case, we want to have discussion here. In my view, even if that were true, even if there's more Nazi ideology in the country than we're aware of or that I'm aware of, and that those telling me it's marginalized are just seeing things through their eyes, is Ukraine or that Nazi ideology allegedly there a threat to Russia in any way?

Does it justify the attack? That's where I still have the big question mark. But let's interact more on this. Let's go to Neil in southwestern Wisconsin.

Welcome to the Line of Fire. Please weigh in, sir. Yes, sir. Hi.

This is Neil from Wisconsin. Like you, Dr. Brown, I'm a Jew who follows Messiah and you have played, since 2002, you played a really large component in my formation, and the sister before stole a lot of what I was going to say to you. That's all right. You can follow up, though. Go for it. Make it a one-two combo here. Well, as you know, we Jews know our history and I have both editions of your seminal book Our Hands Are Stained with Blood.

And I've read it through two times and I had to stop at the third because I wanted to separate from the Church, if you know what I mean. Fully. I understand. Yep.

Yeah. And what's going on right now, in my opinion, it's right sector, Swaboda, the Azov Brigades. You know how, as a Jew, the Shoah, the Holocaust is just an earth-shaking event for us Jews? 22 June 1941, for the Russian, for the Soviet, has an equal resonance to the Russian zeitgeist. And what we've been doing, I've noticed this since November 13, when I saw the first centrist protesters gathering in Midan Square, and, sir, I watched live from February 20th to the 22nd when they lit up Midan Square. The muscle on the ground, they were toting around sides, and I can read Cyrillic, I won't say how, but it said, kill the Russians, kill the Jews. Now, you know as well as I do, you can put a puppet in, and Zelensky could be the useful idiot. We don't know that. You ask how, you know, is there a website about the Azov right sector? It's really funny, because if you go to YouTube, punch Azov, punch right sector, punch Ukrainian far right, and even such left-wing liberal publications of the Guardian six, seven years ago were splattering it all over their website.

Now they're not. And it's just, what, can I say one more thing, sir? I'm listening with open ears. Go ahead.

Thank you. This is a tragic fact that's millennia old. War makes money. Did you notice the only prime minister that flew up to Moscow, flew to Kiev, flew to Berlin, was Naftali Bennett, the only one?

Why is that? What's your answer? Well, because I believe, if you noticed, when we had Shoah Day, when Bibi was still prime minister, do you know who sat next to Bibi? Vladimir Putin, seven seats down was Vice President Pence. Since Russia came into Syria, when it was blowing up, Israel has to stop Hezbollah, the Ayatollahs from home, getting to Beirut, and Israel, I believe, has an on-the-ground, quiet coordination with Russian forces saying, we're going to be conducting an operation to hit Shia, you know, IRCG formations. And so, you know, Israel has a tiny little mouse, but it's a superpower, all the same. And, you know, he's trying to prevent nuclear war. That's what's at stake here. Can I say one more thing?

I've noticed this. I've noticed that many of my friends who are, let's say, Democrats, and, you know, couldn't stand President Trump, all of a sudden on Facebook, they all have the yellow and gold, I stand by Ukraine, and I think that's playing into the narrative of Putin elected Trump, so Putin is Trump. Let's stand by him, and I don't really think that they know what we're getting into.

I mean, nuclear war... Yeah, let me just say this, Neil. Okay, sorry. The last point is a jump. You'd have to admit it's a jump. It could be true for some, but it's still an ideological jump.

I would simply say that the same media that these anti-Trump people followed in the past, that same media is now putting out a very sympathetic narrative to Ukraine, so therefore it would be logical to be drinking that in and coming to these conclusions. Let me say two things in responding. And again, I'm so grateful to God that I've been part of your journey as another Jewish believer in the Lord. Oh, huge.

Thank you. The point I was making in my article was combating the argument that Russia is moral, Ukraine is immoral, therefore Putin is right in invading. Russia fighting against homosexual rights, Ukraine liberal in their views of homosexual rights, therefore it's right for Putin to be invaded. That's the argument I was seeking to demolish, and that stands just the same.

That's untouched. The question that's come up from you and the previous caller, John Michael, is the question of, is there another factor, and when Putin gets up with a rally in a packed stadium, whether everyone had to be there or not, either way it's a packed stadium, and repeats his De Nazify narrative, et cetera, is there more to this, more to the imagery? Now look, we know our history, we know of the massacre in Babi Yar, where tens of thousands of Jews just in a period of a few days were slaughtered and buried in a massive ravine. We know that some of the Ukrainian guards were the most notorious Nazi henchmen, but from all the participating nations you had lots of bad apples, but they would have on their belts, God is with us, and thought they were doing God's work and slaughtering Jews. So we know for sure that that's part of Ukraine's past, and that's one of the earliest things I talked about, about their pro-Nazi history, but things seem to have shifted a lot. So the question for me to pursue, and for others to pursue, is the question of, is there more Nazi ideology, Nazi sympathy in Ukraine than we may know, or is being widely reported?

There is a reference given to John Mearsheimer, that's M-E-A-R-S-H-E-I-M-E-R, that our previous caller referenced. So is there more going on, and when Putin appeals to this, is there more that he can appeal to? Now, to me, there's still not a justification to attack, because I don't believe that there's anywhere in Ukraine's mind that they're going to try to attack Russia, or dominate Russia, or something like that. But in any case, I appreciate these calls, and it gives us further food for thought. Before I go back to another call, yeah, just a comment from some of my team here, my main skepticism with the entire war between Ukraine and Russia is that both of them were rated as the most corrupt countries in Europe on the corruption index.

I have sympathies for the innocent lives being lost. I'm concerned that the politics are much more complicated than anyone may realize. Yeah, there's the excellent possibility that things are way more complicated than we know. That's why I've written an article saying why ultimately is Putin doing what he's doing? Ultimately, what's motivating him? Do we know for sure? And until we know for sure, can we rightly combat what his goals and plans are?

That's a big question. In any case, I'm going to take one more call or so and then we'll get on with things, but I appreciate the discussion. And check out my article for the larger moral arguments. All right, Robert in Mountain Home, Texas. Welcome to the Line of Fire.

Thank you, Dr. Brown. I haven't completely ruled out eschatological components of the Rosh Gog Magog, invasion from the north and so forth, some type of free fulfillment component. Secondly, I haven't completely ruled out a pharaoh-neko component that happened with two signs, Second Chronicles 3520.

In other words, are we meddling with strife that we're not part of and that somehow in some way got something? Got it. And I'm not uninfluenced by that guy, I think he was from YWAM that you had on before the war started.

Yes, Fred Marker. Yeah. So anyway, those are my thoughts on that.

I appreciate that. I don't know if you've read my articles or listened to the shows on Ezekiel 38, 39 where we dismiss the idea that Rosh refers to Russia as opposed to just meaning head or leader in the passage there and basically dismiss it as having any relevance now. If this turns into some massive coalition that ends up attacking Israel, then we'll reevaluate that. I don't see it at this point. But that's a good reference to Josiah.

He got involved in something he didn't need to, cost of his life. Where should we go? How far do we go? Those are questions we're raising on a regular basis. Hey, thank you for the call. This is one of the things I love most about live radio is that folks can call in with different perspectives.

You might say, well, others have called in, you didn't give as much time to talk. If someone will launch insults, if someone will not allow for back and forth interaction, is going to try to talk over us, it's just not good radio, it's just not fair. But I welcome different viewpoints warmly. In fact, if I could push a button and make it happen every week, if not most every day, I would have people calling in who differ with me. Yeah, especially on moral issues and theological issues where, you know, I'm taking a stand and posting my flag, so to say, you know, willing to die on certain hills. I'm invited all the time.

Hundreds, thousands of times I've invited it. But to call in and differ, that's great. And to have your facts in order and everything, that's wonderful.

Or to just raise a different perspective or to challenge me or our listeners to think from a different angle. I love it. By the way, by the way, just talked to my friend Dr. Mark Stengler this morning, just had a quick medical question for him. What a great guy. He is so well informed, loves the Lord, such a strong witness. And we just want to encourage you to keep taking advantage of our partnership. It'll save you 10% on every order and then in turn he turns around and gives a donation to our ministry and it just helps us reach more people. So everybody wins.

Everybody's blessed and helped through it. And you most of all with the discount. So go to vitaminmission.com. Vitaminmission.com.

Check out the health supplements there. Okay. Switching subjects now as promised. For many years, we have been warning about what is coming with LGBTQ plus activism. Our heart, our motto, our mantra has been reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage.

Say that again. Reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. So we've been saying that, those exact words since early 2005, the heart of those words since 2004. And we've been telling you where things will go.

We've written books on this, put out articles on this saying this is where things will go. This is the trajectory. Watch and see. And here's the deal.

It's a biblical principle. You want to see the end from the beginning. You want to see the final consequences.

You want to see the fruit before you go in a certain direction. Okay. You want to march down that road. This is what it's going to cost you. Okay. You want to get into this relationship with this person.

Well, these will be the consequences. The way the flesh and the world and Satan act is, no, just do it. Just do it.

It feels good. Do it. You need it. Do it. Don't worry about the final consequences.

In Hebrew, the acharit, the final end. Don't worry about that. Just do what you want to do now. Or only look in a short-sighted way. You say, what's that got to do with gay activism? Simply this. That if you could see where things were going before they got there, the vast majority of Americans never would have signed up to get behind gay activism as the new civil rights, gay as the new black, trans as the new black. They never would have done it. If they could have seen the American Library Association supporting drag queen reading hour, drag queens reading to toddlers, if they could have seen in advance the fiasco with, quote, Lea Thomas, Will Thomas, the male athlete competing as a woman in swimming in the NCAA. And if they could have seen that, if they could have seen the horror of 15-year-old girls who've had complete mastectomies because they wrongly thought they were born in the wrong body only to say, what do I do now? This is the rest of my life.

What do I do now? If they could have seen the horrors and how far things have gone, they never would have signed up in the first place saying, okay, look, two guys, two gals that love each other, why shouldn't they have the right to spend the rest of their lives together? Why shouldn't the government recognize it? Why isn't their marriage any more or less valid than anyone else's? I understand the arguments and the emotional arguments behind it and the fact that there are many people deeply devoted to one another as couples. I'm sure millions of gays in relationship deeply devoted to each other and wanting to spend the rest of their lives together. I don't doubt that.

Wanting to raise a family. I'm simply saying it's not marriage in God's sight and it's never God's best for children to be raised with two parents of the same sex. And in fact, they can't both be parents, obviously, if they're of the same sex of those children. In any case, we've been telling you that the radical left will overplay its hand. I want to give you some examples of that. In fact, hang on, I just lost my screen where I had all those.

Let me go back for a second and find them. But a lot of the pushback really has to do with what's happening with everything with with quote Leah Thomas because it's this extreme. So you even have Bruce quote Caitlyn Jenner speaking out against this. You have Martina Navratrola mispronounced.

Come on. One of the greatest women's tennis players of all time. She herself, openly lesbian, activist. She's speaking out against this.

You have others. So here's a headline. Red State, March 9th. JK Rowling has perfect response to suggestions she bend the knee in gender identity debate because she's been saying, no, don't post something saying people menstruate. It's women who menstruate.

And don't confuse them. And she has been very much LGBT pro activist and all of this. But she's saying, wait a second. Women are still women.

There still are distinctives here. A biological woman is a biological woman and someone else with plastic surgery to become a biological woman cannot do that. So she's been pushed. People have tried to cancel her. And Wanda M. posted this. You really want your legacy to die on this hill?

And she wrote back, yes, sweetheart. I'm staying right here on this hill, defending the right of women and girls to talk about themselves, their bodies and their lives in any way they blank. Well, please, you are about your legacy.

I'll worry about mine. Oh, she, rather than backing down, is getting even more aggressive and pushing back against the insanity. Here's a headline. Ben Zeisloft on Daily Wire, March 9th, 2022. Elon Musk condemns rising woke trend in corporate America. Again, Elon Musk, you're not looking to him as being a prophetic voice from God, but isn't that interesting? He's pushing back against the woke culture of today. Okay, there's some more.

And again, it goes on and on. Here, Carly Mabry on Newsweek. This is March 9th. Teachers suspended for not using students' preferred pronoun sues school. So she's suspended because she won't call someone the opposite of what they really are, won't call a biological male she or a biological female he, suspend it, saying, okay, we go to court over this.

I'm going to sue you. You cannot simply go around doing this when we are just standing with reality. Another article on Daily Wire. Bill Maher defends Florida Bill.

Maybe kids that young shouldn't be thinking about sex at all. Bill Maher, the anti-religious, often God-mocking, Bible-mocking, liberal Bill Maher. He's been saying more and more common-sense things. It makes me wonder, boy, if we could get some other arguments to him, presented to him about biblical truth. I mean, he's seeing so many things clearly in a common-sense way.

Maybe, maybe he'll see it from a different angle and his heart will be open more to the gospel. But with Governor DeSantis in Florida passing the bill, saying, you know, passing the bill saying, we won't talk about sexual orientation and we won't talk about, about gender identity, K through three. Right? So kids up to what, eight, nine years old, we won't talk about these things. It doesn't say don't say gay anymore. It says don't say straight.

He's saying, well, maybe kids that young shouldn't be thinking about sex at all. Correct? Correct? So I'm telling you, friends, the pushback continues and I'm bringing you all these other sources instead of just Christian voices to say, we told you that, that those in the radical left are going to overplay their hand and there's going to be a pushback. We've written about it for years and years have been talking about it. How much more should we as followers of Jesus be leading the way?

How about this? March 19th on Fox, feminists protesting Leah Thomas say they're politically homeless. Democrats don't care about women. They're saying Democrats all these years you're talking about women's rights, women's rights. Now women's rights are being threatened. Women are losing to, to Will Thomas. They're, they're, they're being crushed in competitions. They're being pushed out of, of placement.

And where are you? You're siding with a biological male against women and pronouncing Rachel Levine, Richard Levine, women, one of the women of the year. This is a biological male attaining to what he's attained to. Now I guess men are even better women than women. So feminists are pushing back. Uh, and then how about this?

Daily Mail. Uh, Leah, we need people like you. National Women's Law Center is condemned for calling critics of controversial trans women, Leah Thomas, misogynists.

Get this. So the National Women's Law Center is saying, oh yeah, you're a biological male, but we, we need you fighting for trans rights. And if someone has a problem with this biological male, that person is a misogynist. What are you, what are you talking about? The insanity of the moment is being exposed. And uh, here, I've, I've got another for you.

Uh, no, no, just, just read that one and is there one more that I had? And anyway, you, you get the feel, friends. The pushback is here because the destructive nature of where the agenda actually goes is being exposed. My brothers, my sisters, let's lead the way. Reach out and resist. Reach out to people, those who identify as LGBTQ. Plus, reach out to them with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. Listen to these words. This is how we rise up. Another program powered by The Truth Network.