Thoughts on the Synagogue Hostage Taking

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. I've got some reflections on the synagogue hostage situation, that's 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Two more days officially where we are audio only. Of course, everyone listening on radio and podcasts, it's always audio only. For everyone watching our stream, two more days of audio only, and then God willing, Monday you will see our beautiful new studio and hear some great new music and a great new intro to the shows.

Everything on schedule is just a few weeks later than we planned. Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast. Thanks so much for joining us on this Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Any Jewish related question of any kind relating to the modern state of Israel, relating to Hebrew Bible, relating to Jewish tradition, Jewish background to New Testament, anything Jewish related, we're happy to take your calls. 866-34-TRUTH. I do want to talk to you in a moment about the hostage situation this past Saturday in Coloville, Texas. Thankfully, the hostages, the rabbi and other hostages, emerged physically unscathed and the terrorist that was responsible for the hostage taking was ultimately killed in a gun battle with the SWAT team there. I want to talk to you about that in a moment.

Play a clip from the rabbi and give you some reflections. Before I do that, it's very interesting that Israel, which is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world and which has, you know, the passport, excuse me, vaccine passport, which enables you to go to certain places and do certain things. So there's a lot of pressure to be vaccinated. There's even been pressure through the school system and obviously government thinking this is the best way to save lives.

Interestingly, test results, they're not comprehensive, but test results that have been done have said even with four jabs, so the initial shots and then boosters, that they're really not effective against Omicron, against the current variant, which has been so massively contagious. And many others are saying, well, how many more boosters, how many more vaccines? These continue to be interesting questions and Israel, like other nations, trying to process these to say again, I am not and have never been anti-vaxx. I am not one who's just said, don't get the vaccine, avoid it. I've never said that.

That's never been my sentiment at any point. On the other hand, there are lots of questions, legitimate questions, and now more and more concerns from within Israel that reports of death and injury through the vaccine have not been adequately reported. In fact, the charges are that the reports have been actively suppressed or even removed from public internet sites where the government was trying to say, hey, did you have an adverse reaction after the vaccine?

And then got flooded and flooded and flooded with people saying, yes, this has happened and that's happened. And then that was just removed. So again, many, many questions as we all do our best before the Lord to be wise, as we all do our best before the Lord to be healthy, as we all do our best before the Lord to love our neighbor as ourselves. I just encourage you be responsible, whether that means being vaccinated, whether that means changing your lifestyle, whether that means being more conscientious and behavior, whether that means being more prayerful, be responsible. I was meditating the last couple of days on Psalm 23 in Hebrew. What a glorious Psalm, obviously the most famous of all the Psalms, the Lord is my shepherd. And the second verse, that he causes us.

It's not that he says, hey, this could happen for you. But as the shepherd of the sheep, the shepherd has a lot of control and authority over the sheep, right? And it says that he causes us to lie down in green pastures. That's what the shepherd does.

They bring the sheep to green pastures and then they say, lay down here. Wow. I mean, that's what God does for us. He leads us besides still waters. In the midst of conflict, in the midst of crisis, in the midst of cultural madness, in the midst of political upheaval, God remains our rock. God remains our refuge. God remains our shepherd. And think of it, in John 10, Jesus refers to himself as the good shepherd. Yeshua identifying with his father as shepherd says, I'm the good shepherd. I lay my life down for the sheep. And then Hebrews 13, speaking of Yeshua, calls him the great shepherd, the great shepherd.

Come on, how is that? The Lord is our shepherd, our good shepherd, our great shepherd. How confident can we be in him in the midst of the storm? Friends, you turn into the line of fire, you will be encouraged. You turn into the line of fire, we will not hesitate from speaking the truth, but that truth will always be filled with hope and confidence because of the Lord that we serve.

866-34-TRUTH. Before we go to your Jewish calls, let's listen to this news report. You can hear the rabbi, this is a Reform rabbi, so not Orthodox, not conservative, but Reform, so liberal rabbi in Texas. The service was being live streamed when the hostage crisis takes place and the rabbi maintained real calmness in the midst of it and said it was his training, rabbinical training, that kicked in. So listen to this description of what actually happened and how he managed to get out.

20 past the hour right now an investigation is underwayed into Saturday's hours-long standoff at a Texas synagogue where a rabbi and three members of his congregation were held hostage. This morning the rabbi addressed the rabbi and the rabbi addressed the terrifying ordeal and the moment he saw an opportunity to escape. I asked, made sure that the two gentlemen who were still with me, that they were ready to go. The exit wasn't too far away. I told them to go. I threw a chair at the gunman and I headed for the door and all three of us were able to get out without even a shot being fired.

That's remarkable. I mean in my mind, obviously we don't know the exact situation, but the guy's armed right and he's ready to kill and wreak havoc however he can. So in my mind if you throw a chair at someone, what's it give you a split second? I mean unless you directly smash the guy in the head and incapacitate him or knock him out for a moment, basically you're buying yourself a second or two, right?

You throw the chair at the person, okay, let's say they don't see it coming so they're stunned for a moment, you're going to move quickly. So who can imagine what took place there? All right, a few reflections. Number one, let's not blow this out of proportion as if all over America Jews were taken hostages in synagogues on Saturday. This was a one-off event. This is a man came from England, the Muslim came from England and he demanded a woman that's nicknamed Lady Al-Qaeda, so a Muslim woman convicted of terrorism demanding her release from prison. His brother said he had mental health issues and he also had a criminal record and a shock that he got out of England. From what I've read, he was known in England but no longer considered to be a danger. So those are major questions. How did he get out of England?

How did he get into America? Those are major questions themselves. But we don't want to overblow this as if this is happening all over America. On the other hand, it's extraordinarily alarming that it happens at all. We've had in recent years two synagogue shootings and now a hostage situation and we know for sure that there has been a rising tide of antisemitism in America and more hate crimes related to antisemitism in recent years in America.

We don't want to downplay that for a moment. Here though is what got many in the Jewish community concerned and upset. The FBI issued their initial statement and they said that the the Muslim hostage takers demands were not quote specifically related to the Jewish community.

And people say what does that mean? What do you mean they're not specifically related to the Jewish community? You got a Muslim in a synagogue on the Sabbath taking Jews hostage and then making demands for the release of a Muslim terrorist.

You said well it wasn't directly related. What would be directly related to the Jewish community if you said all Jews need to come to the synagogue and surrender or Israel needs to give up their rights to the land? I mean what kind of demands is the person going to be made? There's a Muslim terrorist making Muslim demands and obviously thinking that the Jews have some kind of power and control and can make these things happen or the government will just work with the Jews. But the guy's last call, the transcript of the guy's last call to his brother and the FBI certainly knows about this, right? That the guy's saying these blank Jews and using the f-word these blank Jews and we need to come to America everybody come to America and kill these Jews and deal with these Jews. I mean you talk about as anti-Semitic as can be the guy's cursing the Jews the guy's wishing deaths on the Jews it's a synagogue it's a Sabbath he's taking Jews hostage. So there was outrage in the Jewish community over the statement and the FBI revised it the next day. But imagine imagine that a Jewish terrorist barges into a mosque on Friday so on the Muslim Sabbath the Muslim prayer day right takes Muslims hostage and demands the release of a Jewish freedom fighter uh you know that's that's held captive somewhere for his crimes against Muslims or crimes against others and you know some alleged Jewish freedom fighter whatever you say well the it's not really directly related to the Muslim community what what if what if it was a an all-black celebration of Martin Luther King Day and a white supremacist came in took black Americans hostage and this white supremacist demanded the release of a fellow white supremacist well it's not related to the African-American community what so this this was this was maybe the most bizarre thing that happened it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution here again is Dr. Michael Brown oh yeah I've missed hearing that music it is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday Michael Brown welcome to the broadcast 866-348-7884 is the number to call with any Jewish related question of any kind let me say one last thing yes it is true that as Jews we sometimes overplay the anti-semite card just like I believe sometimes our African-American friends can sometimes overplay the race card when you have been through it when you have suffered because of your ethnicity or your religion or the color of your skin when you have been discriminated against when you have been treated as second class citizens and worse it's very easy to to see something there when it may not be there all right and and certainly there are times when Jews will cry out anti-semitism when it's really not or or when a fair critique of Israel is called anti-semitism and it's really not that does happen it can happen with any group of people it's it's understandable but the vast majority of what we were calling out as anti-semitism really is and and much of anti-zionism really is anti-semitism in that it completely delegitimizes and demonizes the modern state of Israel as opposed to affirming the rights to existence of the modern state of Israel and saying hey in the midst of it we have some differences with your treatment of the Palestinians or with your settler policy in the West Bank it's okay you have those differences without being an anti-semite but undoubtedly the massive amount of what we're seeing is legitimately Jew hatred is legitimately called anti-semitism and and that's why the hostage situation in a synagogue on Sabbath in America why that so jarred the Jewish community understandably so understandably so okay with that we go to the phones let's start with Ricky in Nebraska welcome to the line of fire hey Dr. Brown thank you for having me it's always a joy getting to ask you questions sure thing so my question today is on the apocryphal deuterocanonical books maybe kind of a silly question and maybe something you've gotten before but I don't know how much you've studied or read them but it appears as if some of them I think the book in particular I don't have the quotes in front of me which I apologize for but the wisdom of Solomon I believe is one of the deuterocanonical books and it appears to have many messianic I don't know if they're prophecies but they seem to it seems to have sayings that clearly point to the Lord Jesus in regards to life and what he accomplished how do you because if I'm correct you you don't view the apocryphal writings as inspired how do we balance something that clearly has historical value and and clearly I think at least in my opinion shows some messianic merit how do we balance that then with with not being inspired and if my question is making sense here sure absolutely number one we recognize there is much of great value in the apocryphal books historical value inspirational value wisdom value you know like Ecclesiasticus or the wisdom of Ben Sira is full of of wisdom we realize that that this is one of the the powerful streams of tradition in the Jewish community and and that God was in the midst of Israel working in many different ways and in addition to that that there's much wisdom as derived from the scripture so to say that there can be messianic prophecy or words that would point to suffering Messiah or things like that and wisdom of Solomon or great wisdom to live by or great inspiration say Maccabees we fully embrace that the in the reformation days when the apocrypha was was was plainly separated from the scriptures it was commonly printed in between the Old and New Testament saying it's of great value for edification for learning there may be a verse here or two you know that that would paint your picture of a doctrine we differ with like prayer for the dead etc but otherwise these were to be warmly embraced read but not for for doctrine and and and not as as divinely inspired so there can be all kinds of insight in other words there I could speak something today by the spirit and it's of great value and it's even accurately predicting the future but it's not the bible so the apocrypha can have all kinds of divinely inspired things within it but it's not the bible and that's how I look at it it's very simple and in that respect when you just say here think of this there were many prophecies uttered through history that are not part of the bible in New Testament days gift of prophecy flourishing these were true words spoken but they were not the word of God they were not the bible and that's where the distinction would be okay okay so it would be would you take it then that makes sense would you take it then that that could be very evangelistic to the Jewish people since it obviously predates the writing of the New Testament um that could it can be included with other arguments for the Lord Jesus's um you know messianic headship so to speak if that makes sense well yes and no to a a Jew who is looking at things through a more academic lens and recognizes that these were writings that were important in the ancient Jewish world you could say hey what do you think that points to what do you think that's saying and we know that it does predate Jesus but to your average Jew it's like what's that in other words it's not part of the Hebrew bible it's not part of any regular tradition of reading in the synagogue so yeah while it was written in the first century bc or second whatever that'd be no different to them than Dead Sea Scrolls like so it's not part of our bible so you know it could be of some interest but it has no canonical authority to a Jewish person a traditional Jew and therefore it'd be like yeah some Jews may believe that so it's not part of our our actual tradition that would be their viewpoint okay okay so not not necessarily like the same level of of authority as like Isaiah 53 or of course like that totally different ball game totally different ball game okay all right yes okay thank you dr brown i appreciate it you bet sure thing eight six six three four truth by the way some Thursdays we are flooded with calls and we've been flooded with calls this week as we've been back live some Thursdays we are flooded with calls and just like on a Friday it's really hard to get through and some Thursdays we've got open phone lines like we do right now so if you've been wanting to ask me a Jewish related question this is a great time to do it eight six six three four eight seven eight eight four all right let's go over to cologne in Miami welcome to the line of fire Colin Cohen hi uh dr brown um hey when i come in when i turn into you you were talking about the good shepherd yes and that's basically what i wanted to talk about uh i wanted to talk about zechariah 11 and i think the next two i say at 53 zechariah 11 should be like the most important chapter in the you know one witnessing to Jews um i'm telling you because i i that's what i do on toby a singer and can i talk when i debate them okay when i debate them and i and i bring zechariah 11 all the prophecies they don't have a way out they don't uh and i bring the the the tomelet that uh that uh confirms the zechariah 11 was you know talking about the temple for rejecting the the shepherd okay so so professor mark boda one of the the top evangelical old testament scholars has a massive commentary on the book of zechariah and in his view these chapters zechariah 11 12 13 were some of the most important chapters for the early church in in sharing the gospel and that they are rich in messianic imagery so in many ways he would agree with your assessment of the importance of this so here's my question for you we know that the rabbinic interpretation right up through the the top medieval commentaries it's it's very bizarre about the 30 pieces of silver and it's obviously struggling with the the plain sense of the passage there and so we know there's weakness in the rabbinic interpretation i get into that in volume three of of my serious answering jewish objections to jesus but i want you to give the positive argument in other words if you're talking to rabbi singer you're talking to another jewish person and saying and saying hey this points to yeshua uh can you give me that argument concisely and and let's just do this we've got a break coming up in less than a minute so well i i just want you to give it thought so i'm a jewish person and i don't believe that you shoe is the messiah and i want you in short form can't do it really long to to give me your best argument that zechariah 11 is a messianic prophecy about jesus so we're going to do that on the other side of the break friends have you visited vitaminmission.com no not yet by all means check it out it's the website for my friend dr mark stangler naturopathic doctor who was voted doctor of the decade brilliant and a committed believer and his health supplements are second to none you get a special discount there as a listener to the line of fire and then in turn dr stangler makes a donation to our ministry to help us expand onto more and more platforms so check it out benefit yourself all right and you'll benefit us as well vitaminmission.com okay we come back on the other side of the break more of your jewish related calls 866-34-truth some comments i have about gentiles posing as jews to missionize i'll talk about that and we'll get a messianic presentation from colin in miami stay right here it's the line of fire with your host dr michael brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution here again is dr michael brown oh yeah the voice of paul wolver it is thoroughly jewish thursday michael brown delighted to be with you look i always love doing live radio it's it's the joy of my day every day no matter where whatever's going on it's every day i'm excited to be here i count the seconds before we start but missing those weeks because of covid and stuff i am all the more thrilled to be back with you thanks for being such a faithful and encouraging listening audience 866-348-7884 so i want to go over to miami uh uh colin just give me your presentation in short that zechariah 11 is a messianic prophecy of yeshua all right and by the way when i like i was telling when i came in the show you were talking about a true shepherd yes yes okay all right now so it was like from god okay now when i was on hold john mccarthur came in and i came into a truck profit and i was like this is a prophecy to analyze the prophecy because of a video that joe mccarthur has called the true shepherd zechariah 11 are you serious yes yes just just now during this break like from god isn't that wild that's sweet that's very sweet yeah yes yes and i mean take a look at that the true shepherd zechariah 11 by joe mccarthur okay and also and also i want you to analyze this there's not a single anti-missionary refusal of zechariah 11 so your finger doesn't have one he has one about the 30 p and he only tests for like two minutes no one else just for judaism doesn't have it okay just for you to analyze okay now uh i'm always on on their channels debating okay on their coin and levy okay if you if you go to um chapter 11 verse 11 it says and the poor the flock that kept my word knew this that it was the word of the lord okay what did jesus said my sheep hear my voice and they follow me okay okay you you take that you know there's a tom of passage when they opened the doors were opening and there were they um they they uh how they come yeah yeah i'll just yeah so so there's a talmudic passage that says this is you know some would point it back to the time of the crucifixion that the doors of the temple swung open and it was a sign of of divine judgment uh but here's what i want to do just for for time's sake and and i'm not sure if you said that john mccarthur had mentioned the true shepherd or just the mccarthur that's what i thought you had said but i which would have been very interesting in in the break here but if you're just saying he's got a great teaching on it wonderful so here's what i want to do for time's sake i want to step back because i've i've written on zechariah 11. uh i want to do my best to kind of condense the arguments and then present them and explain why this has been a challenge for the rabbinic community to refute and why it would be good for us to look at these more so i'm going to follow up because obviously obviously there's a lot on your mind and a lot of different angles you want to present this so i want to do it we come back on a future show in a more concise way and then explain what's lacking in the rabbinic response hey thanks for drawing attention to the passage and thanks for focusing on the good shepherd the true shepherd the great shepherd of the sheep the one who came back from the dead died for us and came back from the dead hey thank you eight six six three four truth let's go to orlando in high point north carolina welcome to the line of fire thank you dr brown how are you today doing great thanks yeah my question deals with uh when they eat when the jews left egypt and they went into the wilderness they said that they stayed there for 40 years now how long was it before they sent the spies so i'm trying to draw a parallel between it's basically in the second it's basically in the second year so it's it's 38 more years from that point on when the spies come back the 10 out of the 12 come back with the bad report it's then 38 more years in the wilderness but a total of 40 which corresponds with the 40 days that the spies were in in canin okay and then is that is there a possibility that you could draw a parallel with the 70 weeks of uh daniel house house note where uh they didn't believe he did at the beginning they didn't believe they could take the land so they didn't believe in messiah after 69 weeks and the last week instead of being weeks could be years instead of just years of uh like seven years but actually seven times 360 years no i i wouldn't i wouldn't read it like that i i always love when people dig in the word and look for more insight and try to see if there's a significance in a specific word or phrase or if they're parallels but no i i would not see any any parallel there whatsoever the only thing i would say is that daniel was focused on a period of 70 years as prophesied in jeremiah 25 and jeremiah 29 that the jewish people would be in exile for 70 years and daniel being one of the first to go into exile said hey i've been here 70 years what's going on 70 years now and he was able to pray for the return of the jewish people at that time god then said there's something much bigger there's something much bigger and that's what i want to talk to you about and it's not 70 years but 70 times 7 490 years or it's not specifically called years there but 70 sevens which then as we we see must be a period of 490 years um but no i i would not i would not read the text in that same way that you are although i appreciate you digging and looking for insight always thanks eight six six three four truth let's go to ryan in raleigh north carolina welcome to the line of fire thank you for taking my call dr brown sure thing um you know there's something that's uh stuck in my mind for quite a while um i want to say it bothered me but um you know it's just something i had never forgotten some time ago um at church we had had a guest speaker uh who was a messianic jew and um during his presentation he had made mention of the of the notion that um you know the jewish community um did not look as favorably upon christians as uh christians do towards jews you know personally for me um you know of course with my relationship with jesus um i you know i kind of find a connection to the jews and the jewish people and in the culture you know um i look at them as you know brothers almost you know maybe cousins but uh but it just kind of struck me odd that he had mentioned that you know the feeling wasn't mutual so to speak you know do you find that uh to be truthful or well through history when jews were heavily persecuted by christians when they were kicked out of countries if they weren't baptized when they were sometimes given the choice of baptism or death when they were treated as second-class citizens when they were made to wear jewish star when they were called christ killers when after an easter service in eastern europe it's in the late 1800s or the 1900s they would fear for their lives knowing there's probably a christian gang that's going to come marching into their town and brutalizing them so their view of christians for the most part was very negative because of the negative behavior of christians and and um even though there are some positive situations here you know if i say hey what happened in 1492 uh you know you grew up in schools in america you say columbus sailed the ocean blue that's when he came and discovered america if you ask a jewish person knows their history what happened in 1492 they'd say all non-baptized jews were exiled from spain uh when you when you mentioned the word crusade to a jewish person that's a very negative word and and on and on through history and a lot of demonizing of the jews even beginning the second third centuries and then heavily in the fourth century as christianity and the second century as christianity becomes a state religion under constantine the jews now suffer fresh wave of discrimination and even ultimately persecution from the church so because of that through history jews have not had the highest view of christians and christianity the positive is that for for most all of america's history there there was not heavy anti-semitism there was some but there was not jewish bloodshed here in in the country and evangelical christians for decades now in america and europe and other countries have proven to be israel's best friends so for for a couple generations now especially post-holocaust with so many christian leaders grieving and repenting over the christian anti-semitism in europe that paved the way for the holocaust or helped pave the way for it there's been a much more positive feeling that the very very very religious jews would still be as negative but the larger jewish community and the more liberal jewish community would have much more positive views of christians would recognize christians as genuine friends would have more respect for the christian religion so thankfully that's become much more positive in in recent decades but through much of church history understandably it was very negative so it's probably still heavily on the christian community to ensure that you know any you know specifically any anti-semitic incidents are locally denounced yes sir you know it's it's always healthy for christians to do that as christians and to say as friends of the jewish community you make it clear look we want everyone to believe in jesus we believe jesus is the savior and messiah of everyone but we unconditionally stand with the jewish people we are we have your back we believe in your rights to to the land of israel and if someone is coming after you they need to get through us first so so uh ryan you you are a hundred percent right in your sentiments and and words go a long way when words are back with deeds even more powerful but look people are people and when you hear in your own community christians speaking up on your behalf christians understanding your situation christians showing solidarity and then acting as genuine friends it makes a massive massive difference so let's keep demonstrating that love ryan i've seen it consistently for 50 years in the lord as i've traveled around the world extraordinary love for the jewish people in the churches hey thank you sir it's the line of fire with your host activist author international speaker and theologian dr michael brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling eight six six three four true here again is dr michael brown welcome welcome to thoroughly jewish thursday michael brown delighted to be back live with you eight six six three four truth okay two things let me go back to the calls do you have my book our hands are staying with blood it originally came out in 1992 has been continuously in print until we put out a new edition expanded updated 2019 the most translated book of any i've written lays out the horrible history of anti-semitism in the church and god's eternal purposes for israel if you've not read it let me strongly encourage you to get a copy of the book our hands are staying with blood when you order it make sure you get the new edition because it's expanded and updated you'll find it painful eye-opening life transforming and and will further give you insight into what the word of god says about israel and the jewish people a book that complements that if you already have our hands are staying with blood is christian anti-semitism where i confront a lot of the things happening in today's church now i do that as well and our hands are staying with blood but that's principally looking at the past with some on the present christian anti-semitism is focused on almost entirely on the present and and we go through a lot of dangerous things uh being taught today uh in christian anti-semitism so check those books out they're on our website or wherever you order your books second thing in the last year a few people have been exposed who according to everything we know were gentiles gentile christians who then engaged in intensive study in judaism and then either got ordained without the people knowing that they were gentile christians and not really jews or simply began to to proclaim themselves as rabbis but in a couple of instances they lived right in the heart of ultra-orthodox jewish communities for years and and now been exposed and of course cast out of those communities they may have been sincere thinking that they were doing what paul said in first corinthians nine to the jews i became a jews a jew to win the jews that they may have thought they were doing what he said to do in point of fact it was ugly deception in point of fact none of the organizations with which i work be it jews for jesus or chosen people or one for israel or others practice that they make known we are followers of yeshua now you may be a jewish person who feels called to reach the religious jewish community because of which you take on customs and traditions that you don't have to today as a jewish follower of yeshua but you do it to live among the people to have a kosher house so people can be welcome but you make it known that you're a follower of yeshua that's fine that's just cultural sensitivity that's fine and what paul did was he took on was he took on customs and traditions he didn't have to to be among his people but that's how he had previously lived as a pharisee he's simply saying i'm not under this this is not a command from the lord to live like this but to win my people i'm very happy to continue to live in this lifestyle i know ultra-orthodox jews who have come to faith who still live as ultra-orthodox jews because that's their lifestyle that's their community and as they have opportunity they share the good news with others but they do it with wisdom and with care just like christians sharing their faith in communist china have to exercise wisdom and care they do that but the idea of a gentile posing as a traditional jew or a rabbi to win jewish people is something that i wholeheartedly reject and oppose as do all the major organizations that i know and individuals jews involved in reaching our people with the good news all right back to the phones we go to dave and dave in canada is gone let's go over to justin in independence kentucky hello yes hello oh okay yeah um yeah i'm justin um i just wanted to start out by saying i i think i think i just i got covid so i'm getting over it now and i'm i have shortness of breath so if uh that's irritating i'm sorry but um i did want to say um i i found your um your debate this is about a year and a half ago two years ago on youtube and i just really like uh i mean i was obsessed with just watching them constantly but um your your ministry has uh has brought me back to the lord and i wanted to say thank you for that hey justin you know it would be a real blessing so we can rejoice with you when you have a moment go to our website there's a link just says contact and shoot us a note with your testimony if you haven't done this already and and how we were able to play a role uh in you coming back to lord we want to rejoice together and we want to share that with with others so they can be encouraged because this is always a joint effort but i'm thrilled totally to hear that i'd love to hear more and on the health end yeah make sure you get plenty of rest and drink plenty of of water liquids to get yourself uh rehydrated there yeah okay so your question today okay yeah um my question was about um the mixing of wool and linen i just i just read a couple of books uh i read uh john malton's book on uh genesis morning uh then is the next book um on genesis two and three do you know who i'm referring to sure of course okay um so it's kind of it's kind of new uh this is all new to me as far as like looking at the uh genesis as as more of a material origins and not a um uh or i'm sorry um right that genesis one is is teaching how god basically sets up the universe as a temple in which he dwells etc yeah and and let me just say this john walton is a terrific old testament and ancient erestrian scholar really one of the top that we have in the evangelical world of these theories or especially about adam and eve and things are also highly controversial so it's worth reading it's worth investigating but you always have to remember that as you read the rest of the bible it's taken for granted that that god created the universe in six in six days you know that's that's the takeaway that's spoken of over and again that the new testament writers seem to refer to and of course the historical reality of adam and eve being something grounded especially in the new testament so i find the writings fascinating worth considering but i i've been grounded in the biblical scholarship and ancient euston scholarship all these decades that i'm just kind of looking at that as is there any insight to be gained from this is there is there as opposed to having a total paradigm shift huh okay um for me um after reading the book um i was i had always taken the six days as literal like i live in kentucky so we're really close to the uh the arc and all of that yeah yeah like i i had i had always taken that as like a literal uh six days and a rest but um you're looking at it from a literary standpoint like you know the uh framework uh theory where it's you know right the first half is setting things up the second half is filling it or just all the parallels to the building of the tabernacle and the building of the temple see justin i came at this from a different angle i remember i was in grad school and and i have no scientific background i've often shared that when classes started to get serious in high school science classes i was just getting high and not paying attention then we started this new school this protest school called safe where we didn't have to have any formal classes and i got born again at that time so i was just in the word day and night so and then when i was in college i never took scientific classes so to me i was never troubled with young earth older scientifically because i had no scientific background but when i was doing my ancient the recent studies at new york university and then reflecting on cosmology so stories about the origin of of the earth and the origin of the universe that when you were reading the accounts be it babylonian accounts or egyptian accounts whatever the purpose of the account yes it was partially to explain how we got where we are and how the world is where it is but it was really primarily to explain why this particular deity was transcendent what that that that the cosmology was basically an apologetic for the supremacy of a particular deity and that the main thing you were to learn from reading the cosmology was more about a theology and as as i started to read genesis one in that light and then i began to look at the great themes you know of light and darkness and order of chaos and day and night and then how those the and you know victory over the the chaos monsters you know whatever etc that that as i read it completely ignorant of of many of the arguments that john walton would be bringing about parallels with temple and and tabernacle or any of that but as as i as i read it it's like wait wait this is not here to teach me science it may be scientifically accurate it may not it may be six literal days it may not but that's not why it's there it's there to teach me about god it's there to give me insights as to who he is and how he operates and then as i reflect it through the rest of scripture yes there are statements made in six days the lord made heavens and earth right which could be literal days or not debate we won't get into right now and i'm intimately familiar with the debates on all sides but the main takeaway you get is that god is the creator god is the one who brings light out of darkness god is the one who brings order out of chaos god is the one who establishes his ways on the earth god is the one who makes everything to reproduce after its kind and god is what makes us in his own image these are the major takeaways from genesis one to me often the scientific debate is a distraction so justin we're thinking the same way here make sure you send us your testament one day we'd love to hear more god bless another program powered by the truth network