Revisiting the Question of Racism in America

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. There's a disturbing account from San Francisco that raises the question once again of systemic racism.

We'll have a constructive talk today. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on The Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. We're going to have a constructive talk today.

We're going to talk through more difficult issues. Why? Because I'm looking for controversy? No. Because I'm trying to get people upset? No. But so we can pursue truth together, we can pursue harmony together, we can pursue unity together, we can pursue justice together.

If we don't model it and lead it as followers of Jesus, how can we expect the world to do it? Michael Brown, welcome to The Line of Fire. Here's the number to call. 866-348-7884.

That's 866-348-7884. I want to lay out my own position on race issues in America today for those just tuning in or those who haven't heard me comment on this. Then I want to talk about a recent report from San Francisco. Take you into a book that deals a little bit without about the history of some laws in America and then get your feedback. Get your own take based on your own life, your own education, your own experience. Fair enough? So let me lay things out plainly and let me make the full statement before you respond to it. I believe that race is being used today in a very divisive way to deepen division, to destroy the fabric of our society, that in many ways in our schools and in the media and politically, it's being used as a wedge issue to divide us rather than a way to call us to work together for the betterment of all people. I wholeheartedly differ with any education that makes one group of kids feel guilty or inferior or identifies one group as the victim group and the other group as the perpetrator group.

I completely oppose that. At the same time, I absolutely stand for a fair and honest telling of our history. The beautiful with the ugly, the good with the bad, that the whole story be told. I believe that America in many ways today compared to the much of the rest of the world is not a racist country. All right. Now, let me make the whole statement.

All right. That overall, especially when you compare us to other countries, overall that today as we function, we are not a racist country and that there is great opportunity for people of all color and all background to succeed in America in virtually every area of the society. At the same time, because of our history, there are things that remain today that are unequal. Now, I do not believe that the goal is equal outcomes. That's not even a biblical goal. The goal is equal opportunity and then people do with it as they please.

Be it in business, be it in salvation. I'm talking about just general principles, but there are inequities that remain because of our past system and because it put certain groups of people much further back. All right, so they're starting the race further back or they're starting the race with extra burdens on them because of which as followers of Jesus, we should always be working to do what we can to level the playing field.

All right. So those are my views. Do I believe America is systemically racist as in in a conscious way?

American laws, American institutions are trying to keep black Americans down or others down. No. Do I believe that there are vestiges of things in different systems that still need to be looked at and addressed? Yes.

All right. So a lot of things have to do with terminology. A lot of things have to do with what we mean when we say a particular thing. And I'm not trying to get everybody mad at me. You know what I'm saying? Get people on the right on the left on this side and that side mad at me. I'm trying to assess things honestly.

All right. So here's what brings this up and it brought up another discussion with myself and a colleague where we often discuss race issues me as a white brother him as a black brother. This has been widely reported but here I'm reading from The Washington Post. A black couple says an appraiser lowballed them. So they quote whitewashed their home and say the value shot up.

So in short what happens is they move into San Francisco or they move into their house, right? They they get it appraised and know what it's worth. They put a lot of money into it get it appraised again. Okay, they put even more money into it and then are expecting a certain appraisal and are shocked when they hear how low it is. So they decide to call another company. They remove anything in the house that's black pictures of black family or artwork or anything like that have a white couple call for the appraisal say they own this house put their own family pictures in there and the appraisal on a $500,000 from like a million to a million and a half.

Now you say well there are other things going on other factors. I'll just share the report with you. Okay, I'm going to I'm going to share the article. Paul Austin said he felt good as the appraiser roamed his North California home last year ticking off some of the $400,000 worth of improvements he and his wife had made to the property. The appraiser noticed the new fireplace Austin told the state reparations task force task force in October mentioned a room they'd add it and complimented the view from the new deck. So it goes on the whole story when when when they did the appraisal came in a little under a million and they were shocked because they knew what they paid for it. They knew they would put $400,000 of work into it. They'd expanded to living space substantially and you know, things are very expensive in San Francisco. Take a million dollar house million at yeah.

Well, you don't get a whole lot for that in San Francisco. So if they put all that money into it expanded it they were expecting to see a lot more. So the new appraisal when it was called whitewashed came in at 1.48 million dollars. So even if it's a few months later your real estate doesn't jump from a million to a million and a half in a few months. So according to the lawsuit, they believe the first appraiser gave them a lowball valuation because they're black you say others imagining it.

It's just somebody lowball them and it just so happened when they quote whitewashed the house that the appraisal came in high. Some will say that others will say, you know how common this is, you know, it's not the only time something like this has happened. When are you going to get it that people look at blacks whites differently in America. This is a conversation to have right if we don't have it. Someone's going to believe one way someone's going to believe the other way and we just sweep it under the rug. Well, let's talk about it and your own life experience. You might call in and say man, we know similar things that have happened or someone else calling I'm going to praise her and under no circumstances with that factor in.

You can weigh in 866-34-TRUTHs. So the the appraiser and her company did not respond to the Washington Post. So we don't have their side of the story.

Austin says the gentleman told the state reparations task force in October. He believes the property was devalued quote because we are in a black neighborhood and the home belonged to a black family. Now when an appraisal is done you factor in other homes in the area, right and then you get comps out in the immediate area. So let's just say you have a home that's worth $250,000 and and the homes in the community around you are all worth at least 250,000 some worth 350,000 and similar houses. So same size same property in the surrounding area. So outside of your immediate neighborhood, they're worth $275,000.

Oh, well your house will praise no problem. You get 250 plus. In other words, it's it's in a neighborhood that can sustain that value because generally speaking let's say you're looking to buy your dream home. It's it's $200,000.

It's $500,000 $2 million whatever it is. If it's $2 million home, you're not going to find it in the community where all the surrounding houses are worth 150,000 people don't build like that. So you factor in what the neighborhood as a whole the houses are worth there you factor in comps. So what houses of similar comparative structure size what they're selling for newness enhancements things like that what they're selling for nearby and you can say hey we can justify an appraisal list.

So we go through your house and based on the house itself. It's worth 300,000 the neighborhood. It's actually even more expensive houses. So that lifts yours up some just like if the neighborhood was way way way down. It's going to drag yours down because people don't want to spend that much money in a neighborhood like that. The fact is that the second appraisal comes back radically different.

That's the big thing. In other words, if the neighborhood brought it down black or white Hispanic Asian doesn't matter. The neighborhood brought it down. Well, the next appraisal would reflect that so why the disparity if I was this couple if I was a black couple this happened and we whitewashed the home and appraised with a white couple afterwards and they got dismissed for president. I'd be thinking the same thing.

They would I'd be thinking something's not right here. According to the article other black homeowners have reported similar experiences. The value of a woman's Indiana home more than doubled between appraisals last year after she stripped it of all evidence that it was owned by a black person and a white family friend stood in as the homeowner. Earlier this year a black family in Ohio removed family photos artwork and their six-year-old daughter's superhero pictures replaced them with belongings their white neighbors offered up the appraised value of their home went from four hundred sixty five thousand to about five hundred sixty thousand 2018 study by the Brookings Institution found that homes in black neighborhoods in US metropolitan areas were undervalued by an average of forty eight thousand amount into 156 billion in losses. Now were they undervalued because the neighborhood had more crime because of lack of access to other amenities or simply because well if it's black it's worth less just like it costs less to adopt a black baby than a white baby. So are there unconscious prejudices?

Are there things built in a system that are still there? Are these just random examples that we don't have enough data on? These are the kind of questions we have to ask because if this kind of stuff is still going on on a regular basis in America, that's that's absolute injustice and that's something that needs to be called out. If there's more to the stories than meets the eye if there's something in a larger system that needs to be addressed fine or if this is illusionary and just another another attempt to divide well, then what are the facts that we're missing? So that's what I want to talk about these things because again, if we don't talk either we sweep stuff under the rug or we end up fighting each other. We end up just again if we don't talk about it. If we don't talk it through either we sweep it under the rug or I believe the worst you believe the worst and we polarize we end up fighting. So instead we're going to have a constructive conversation.

This is a safe place to do it 866-348-784. And we know the phones as soon as we come back. So now's a good time to get in and then want to share an interesting perspective from a black friend and then a book he recommended I want to read a bit of that beginning of that book the color of law by a Jewish scholar.

We'll be right back. Joining us on the line of fire eight six six three four truth when I sent that article from the Washington Post to my black believing friend again, we often interact and do our best to sharpen each other in our perspective understanding. He was familiar with the story and wrote back to me this is what CR tears mean about systemic racism. I think we've got this quote we can put up for you.

This is what CR tears. So critical race theories theorists mean about systemic racism, meaning racism in the systems of this nation. It's not a false narrative.

How could a country that needed more than one Civil Rights Bill not have racism in every part of its structure via people who believe that they are superior and need to preserve their place in other words the past racism is reflected in past laws and some of those laws or practices or customs or vestiges are still felt today. That's that's his perspective and that's what we are talking about. So listen, I'm going to go to the phones momentarily.

Let me just say this when I bring this up. I'm going to be bring broad sides here. Okay, I'm going to get attacked from both sides one side thinking. I'm just trying to be woke and prove something the other side as if we divide it. Okay, as if their sides the other side. I'm not going far enough. So I am not trying to gain human favor here. I am not trying to impress anybody by being woke or being unwoke. I'm seeking to have a constructive honest discussion where we can talk freely and we can differ freely and we can learn from each other fair enough. So if someone calls in and you're really upset with what they have to say.

Well the same way I'm giving them space and giving you space. So let your let your thoughts be heard and we'll start with Charles in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire Charles is gone already. We'll tell you what, we'll stay in Raleigh.

We'll stay in Raleigh and we'll go to Taft. Welcome to the line of fire. Thanks for calling. Hi, Dr. Brown. Hey, love your show.

Thank you. I just want to say I appreciate the opportunity to provide constructive feedback and I'm coming from the point of view that I believe a lot of what you said is true. I agree with some of it. I don't from the simple fact that we are all humans systemic or whatever those are systems that are put in place by human, but humans are governing them. So if we look at our political system and we look at who's running the political systems, they're only as good as the people in those positions.

And if those positions hold I would say personal if they're trying to let's just say an official wants to keep their job and they want to go with the status quo of their party affiliations and they're not willing to break with those in other words, they get caught up in the system. We're all human. We are all have you know false. Okay, we're not perfect.

We're all growing. I think this whole thing has to it. I don't think we're ever solved this but I think that it comes down to people wanting to do an honest self-assessment and realize that everybody has biases regardless of your race on some points or another. It's just whether or not we're willing to be honest with our own selves and say hey have I done a fair job of being fair. I think just in our everyday lives. We have biases that we form that out of habit. We think things out of habit because we're either conditioned to in the way we were growing up but willing to have those conversations willing to actually honestly do a self-assessment and say hey am I part of this if you want to look at systemic racism if you're a politician and you have a political part in making things better or worse, you know, are you administering that policy effectively equitably to the populace or are you going with a status quo and whether it be your party affiliation to enact certain legislation that is you to yourself say, you know is a little bit one-sided or the other but that comes down to every situation that we have in our life and in our jobs and in the systems that we work in, you know, so it basically starts with us within, you know, only as good as the people. Yes, so to jump in on that, you know, a lot of times we do just go with the crowd whether it's religious belief or practice or a mindset or how we respond to a political report.

We're kind of in these echo chambers and we're expected to all think the same way and do things the same way and often we really don't step back and ask deeper questions and allow our views to be challenged. So yeah, you're absolutely right. And that's the biggest thing is okay. Well, interpersonally, what can I do to be godly, to pursue justice, to be fair, to be righteous? What can I do to work against discrimination wherever I see it in any way in the sphere in which I live? That's the key thing and it does come down to us individually.

But hey, thank you for calling in. Let me just say this. I do not believe everything's race. I do not believe everything is a matter of race.

I believe some in society are pushing it and making it that case. Just over the weekend doing some writing, chilling a little bit, watching a football game, and I was just watching players from different ethnicities and colors celebrating. I thought, you know, they're on the same team. And they're like, well, that was a good play, but he's white. Well, he's from Honolulu. Well, no, he's black from Nigeria.

No, they're on the team together. And for the most part, we're working together for common good. Where there are disparities, where there are issues, we should address them and we should have conversations because we should care if there are inequities. If someone's using race to divide, that bothers me. I care about that. If there's a genuine inequity, I care about that as well.

Let's go over to Anthony in Richmond, Virginia. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. I was wanting to say, I worked in Africa for, I lived in Africa for two years. And from my perspective, I noticed that when I came back, it became clear to me that black people in America have a, I hope this isn't offensive.

It's just a statement of fact. Black people in America have a very high standard of living compared to what I witnessed in Africa. And I think this country has afforded them and all people, not just black people, a very high, a great opportunity to be successful in life. And that doesn't mean there isn't racism and problems. But when I left Africa, there were people begging me to take them home with me to back to America. They were willing to leave their entire life behind their families and their friends to come to America. And I just don't think that happens if there's any notion they're going to enter into a society that's systemically oppressed against them.

We have immigrants from all over the country, all over the world, coming to this country who are non-white, leaving their majority non-white countries to come here. And that just kind of refutes the notion that this society is set up to oppress them. Yeah, so I agree that America today is not set up to oppress people of color, African Americans, or others.

I agree that it is not set up to do that. I agree that most of the world would prefer living here because of the opportunities and freedoms. But two questions for you. Number one, what does this have to do with the fact that people were enslaved, brought here against their will, and suffered under unjust policies for a couple plus centuries of our history? In other words, if someone wants to come over freely today, you can't compare that to someone that was brought here as a slave. I mean, you don't want to make that comparison, correct?

No, I'm not trying to say that. Yes, there were injustice. Yeah, there were injustice in this country. Because someone could misunderstand that, I just wanted to give you the opportunity to say it.

So here's the other question. So again, I agree that America as a whole is not set up today to oppress one group or keep a group down. And two, I believe that America has amazing opportunities, which is why so many people are trying to come into our country rather than fleeing our country. But on average today, your average black child in America, do you think that they have the exact same opportunity in life as your average black child, your average white child? So as far as educational opportunities, as far as family background, heritage, and things like that, do you think they have the exact same, they start at the same starting point, that the playing field is completely equal?

They don't start at the same starting point, but the system is set up so everyone does have the same. I would actually argue that the system is set up almost against white people when you consider affirmative action and looking at the statistics of who's receiving most of the welfare money. Again, I'm not trying to be offensive, but...

I ask for people to talk honestly. But if you look at the way the system is set up, I would argue that it's actually set up to hamper white people. And again, that's part of that is because of the history of this country and we did have an unfair advantage. And it was at one point systemically oppressive. So I'm not arguing against those policies, but as you look at it today, yes, I do believe that all races have in this country approximately an equal chance of succeeding according to the system we have.

Yeah, so the challenge... So I understand what you're saying, and then some of the affirmative action... You're having complaints now from Asians, say, going into some of the best schools in America that they're being discriminated against because they're Asian and they're not black, so they're not getting the same opportunities. In other words, even though they're ahead here, here, and here, they're being discriminated against.

So I understand those concerns for sure. But let's just say Native Americans. Your average Native American is growing up in an environment that is so difficult, so oppressive, very, very hard to get out of.

So you have a lot of black Americans that are still growing up in an environment today with greater poverty, with more broken homes, with less educational opportunities, and some of that ties back to the vestiges of the past. So my heart is, okay, well, how do we address that? It's not a current injustice.

It's a current reality based on past injustices. What do we do together to try to level the playing field? And if you differ with Anthony said, as we gave him space to speak, you get space to speak. 866-34-TRUTH. Much more to come. Oh, and an update from Canada. You got to hear this.

Thanks. It's the line of fire with your host. Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown friends. We are committed to solid conversations here where you have the right to offend me and I have the right to offend you by speaking what we understand with grace with maturity with love with respect.

But hey, if you can't speak freely to me and if you can't speak freely in this setting here that then where are we going to have these conversations right where we're going to have these conversations 866-34-TRUTH going to read you something quickly then going straight back to the phones first yesterday. I had on a guest from Canada talking about a horrific bill that was about to pass who is hoping that we get a hearing in the Senate and it passed unanimous basically while we were talking within minutes of that it passed and it banned it bans it bans throughout Canada for all ages so-called conversion therapy and the way it breaks down is if you're a man with unwanted same-sex attraction and you want to get professional counseling or you want to go to a pastor to get help to to work these things through and pray them through illegal illegal. So I wrote about it go to my website askdoctorbrown.org you can read it's the latest article askdoctorbrown.org you want to read it and share it.

I've already been told there will be legal pushback. There will be cases brought to challenge this but it is shocking and the same thing could happen in America if we're not vigilant. So go to the website askdoctorbrown.org and check out the article. All right, let me read this to you. This is from Richard Rothstein Rothstein's book The Color of Law, which your friend recommended to me yesterday. So I downloaded it just from the preface of only begun to get into the book some of you will be familiar with the contents Richard Rothstein writes this in his preference preface when from 2014 to 2016 riots in places like Ferguson Baltimore Milwaukee or Charlotte captured our attention.

Most of us thought we knew how these segregated neighborhoods with their crime violence anger and poverty came to be we said they are de facto suggested that they result from private practices not from law or government policy de facto segregation we tell ourselves has various causes when African-Americans move into a neighborhood like Ferguson a few racially prejudiced white families decided to leave and then as the number of black families grew the neighborhood deteriorated and white flight followed real estate agents steered away steered whites away from black neighborhoods and blacks away from white ones banks discriminated with redlining refusing to give mortgages to African-Americans or extracting unusually severe terms for them with subprime loans African-Americans haven't generally gotten the education that would enable them to earn sufficient incomes to live in white suburbs and as a result many remain concentrated in urban neighborhoods besides black families prefer to live with one another Rothstein says all this has some truth, but it remains a small part of the truth submerged by a far more important one until the last quarter of the 20th century racially explicit policies of federal state and local government defined where whites and African-Americans should live today's residential segregation in the North South Midwest and West is not the unintended consequence of individual choices and of otherwise well-meaning law or regulation but of unhidden public policy that explicitly segregated every metropolitan area in the United States the policy was so systematic and forceful that it affects its effects endure to the present time without our government's purposeful imposition of racial segregation the other causes private prejudice white flight real estate steering bank redlining income differences in South segregation still would have existed but with far less opportunity for expression segregation by intentional government action is not de facto rather it is what called what courts called du jour segregation by law and public policy is that true certainly the past much of the past it's been true or the vestiges of it's still there or if the past set it in place have we been able to fix it it's conversation stab guilt trip dr. Brown do you feel guilty because your wife the thoughts never once occurred to me is never once never once occurred to me any more than I should feel guilty for having eyes or nose it's never it doesn't exist in my universe thoughts like that to be perfectly candid with you so I'm don't don't read something over you just try to be woke to please people on the left that thought is abhorrent to me the first thought has never occurred to me the second thought is a part to me I love Jesus therefore I love justice I love Jesus therefore I love my neighbor therefore I want to talk about these things with my friends and with my neighbors fair enough all right to the phone let's try to reconnect with Charles in Raleigh North Carolina Charles do we have you this time? Yes, you do. How you doing? Dr. Brown good. Go ahead, please good.

Well, I think you have been juicy smolletted. Let's let's look at some facts here. You indicated that there are people in this country that are trying to divide the races, correct? Yes, sir. Okay. Well, I would I would list among those groups the Washington Post the Brookings Institute and whatever reparations group this was and those are the three sources you quoted for this.

Appraisable just just hang on Charles. I quoted Washington Post because a lot of people have access to it. It was reported in other publications. But okay, so so let me just ask you something Charles you do you believe in doing serious research?

Yes, I do. And I've done a lot of serious research both on mortgages great great. All right, so so race relations. Yeah, I want you to weigh in in a second, but you do realize that you have to go and check primary sources. There were some things reported by so-and-so now you have to check the primary source.

The reason I had a PhD in Semitic languages is to do that. So I would just say aside from the insulting just a smaller thing, which is really beneath you if you want to come across seriously and the kind of dialogue we want to have here and aside from impugning me because I happen to quote something that the Washington Post published go to the primary sources. Let's discuss those you basically shoot yourself in the foot and make yourself yourself out to sound like I once quoted something on CNN to say even CNN is saying this and people said I'm not following you anymore because you quote CNN.

It's almost what you sound like. So let's just talk facts and get past the unnecessary insults because that that just degrades your position and let's let's talk what you know where you differ. Okay.

Okay. Well, first of all, I didn't mean it as an insult. It's those three organizations are invested in dividing us by race, but that aside in your opinion the just a smaller thing.

It's not meant as an insult that was not meant as an insult. I think those those I think that I just meant that those three organizations are have some investment in that but to get to the bottom line. We talked about this was kind of the indication from them was that this was sort of a redlining of these particular homeowners and and reducing their equity in their value.

Yep, they send them being black. That was the accusation, right? Right.

Okay. The problem with that theory is it doesn't matter what the particular host the redlining is about an entire neighborhood. So unless the entire neighborhood went from black to white whitewashing one particular home just doesn't make any sense from the standpoint of what any lender or any appraiser or any adjuster would be involved in do it and it's the whole thing really seems to me to be a false flag from the beginning.

I just I don't believe the story is what I'm saying and I got it. Okay, that's fair enough fair enough. That's and again this look at look at how many times people on the left have gone out of their way to paint nooses to paint swastikas to hang a noose in a NASCAR garage to do all these things and almost without exception.

Dr. Brown almost without exception. They are shown to be false flags. Let me let me ask you this Charles. We have lists of maybe 300 examples of that in LGBT issues of these false flags was it ever determined who hung the noose with with in the NASCAR garage? I think it was actually determined. It wasn't even a noose. It was just a rope that was used for something else. What right? Right.

Okay, because I didn't want to give an impression that it was right. It was reported as a noose, right? I didn't want to give an impression that someone on the left hung a noose and then reported it as a racist thing. Basically. The question was whether it was actually a noose or not. So it's the way it was reported, right?

And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whoever reported it because 98% of the media is to the left was someone on the left right that could well be that that could well be hey. Listen, if you if you did not mean your opening comments in an insulting way. I apologize for hearing them that way.

No, I love your show. I just I was trying to be funny with the juicy smaller thing. Ah, got it. Got it. Okay. Well, I apologize for thinking it was intended as an insult.

My point is if you got if you got something to say, let's try to get to that because otherwise, you know, so many people that would hear what you have to say it won't hear it. But anyway, all good. We're clear. So from from your viewpoint, something's fishy with the story and very fishy just simply from a real estate standpoint. I mean again, if you're going to it doesn't matter what the particular homeowner is. It only matters what the neighborhood is. And if this was a black homeowner in a neighborhood that was 80% white 20% black it doesn't that's I mean, I think they said that it was a mainly black neighborhood and they felt the house is undervalued because of that but your point would be so if a white person showed it that wouldn't affect it that wouldn't get a higher appraisal. But what weren't you could weren't you comparing the same house to the same house? So it doesn't matter.

I mean, you know, so if it was a black neighborhood when they're five when the million-dollar appraisal came in then I'm assuming it was still a black neighborhood when exactly so you're saying right so white person showing it in your view with would not affect that overall. Hey Charles, I appreciate you calling in and glad we got past the misunderstanding of the humor at the beginning. So that's that's perspective from Charles phone lines are open eight six six three four truth.

Let's go over to Michelle in Winston-Salem. Welcome to the line of fire. Thanks for having me on Dr. Brown.

You're welcome. I actually missed the whole part about the redlining and I won't comment on that but I was just listening to the last caller that just returned from Africa and I disagree with him as far as what the policies or if white people be hampered by today's policies. I feel like it's black people being hampered because we're not old but a lot of people are out here. They are receiving too many governmental benefit and it's tempering them as far as moving forward with life. Do you mean the welfare system in the way? It's been set up has been intentionally set up to keep black Americans down exactly have basically ruined to me the African American family is 100 years after slavery. We were doing so much better than we were, you know, 60 years after civil rights movement. So to me these policies a lot of these policies are hurting us and as far as the education you brought that up like you were speaking if to me is culture, you know, not having a two-parent household. It's about zip code. A lot of these Democrats don't want black students victory out and finding better education.

A lot of them are stuck in the school that they are so in other words and just because we had a break let me just put this together the policies from the Democrats that are supposedly helping by people are just a continuation of previous Democrat policies to keep blacks down and even the incentive to have children out of wedlock to get more welfare contributes to this. So that is a perspective many others have shared as well. Hey Michelle. Thank you for calling in. It's the line of fire with your host activist author international speaker and theologian. Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling eight six six three four truth here again is dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire eight six six three four truth.

I want to go right back to the phones to get in as many calls as I can. We'll go to Christopher in Fort Worth, Texas. Welcome to the line of fire. How are you? Dr. Brown doing well. Thank you, Christopher. Hey, I'm a person of color middle-class 38 years old conservative.

I've grew up pretty tough just as a quick summary. I think the issue main issue surrounding the community of people of color. I hate to say black because I don't even like that term period I think it's an identity crisis going on and we're plagued by low self-worth and a lot of components of things that contribute to that would be the constant constant portraying a black people in a negative light in so many different ways, you know, it's always surrounded by poverty crime victimhood, you know, and I follow a lot of conservative channels and including yours and a lot of times when an issue of race comes up is almost as if the black community is used as a marketing demographic for the left and could you explain that what you mean by that marketing demographic like it's a like a tool used by them to to pretty much create this idea of this narrative that it's just so bad in the black community and they're just targeted by so many different things so much so that you know, it's a narrative.

That's you got it. Okay. Yeah, I mean it's far into my way of thinking but go ahead.

Yeah, go ahead. Right and and and that's and that's the tool if it's in Hollywood this in the movies and TV shows it's constantly using that idea to promote, you know a narrative and that narrative I believe is a narrative that they use in order to pretty much present themselves as as the Savior of the black community on the far left or other left, you know, I wouldn't say got it Democrats period you're not got it. Yeah, but I did not get any crisis in the community and that's because you know, a lot of people are proud of the heritage. They have this rich history and this that and the other there's not many it's not there's not much you can really stand on as a person of color and the u.s. To be proud of you know, it's it's that plays a part that contributes to low self-worth in terms of a sense of history right in sense of history and period because a lot of negativity is surrounding that term and every single media outlet that I'm exposed to on a day-to-day basis, but I think that the media is the perpetrator. They they're also contributing to these stereotypes of black people as a whole well always constantly identify as a collective would never looked at as an individual and typically when I interact with people of different races, you know, there's always a stereotype that I would have to you know, either so that I'm not a part of that stereotype or combated in some type of way and say hey, well, this is not me that you're assuming that I am so this is still it's still part of your ongoing experience that that you feel you're stereotyped growing up growing up. Yeah, I grew up hard. I grew up hard and it's hard and I say in his heart because you you know, of course, you know, we got here all the arguments uh, you know between white and black and and and what we hear that, you know, well, it's the crime mister, you know, the broken homes.

We hear all that, you know, we all that and they say well, you know, if we can just compare, you know, start, you know, be it father stay in the home or if you could just stop doing this at any other it's like everybody's an expert but they never really go into the mentality of the people in this country, you know people of color in this country you can say well there there's opportunities out there and yes, there are opportunities but the opportunity can be, you know, taking advantage of depending on your mentality going into it. Yeah, like I'm trying to find something now as we're speaking. I'm actually having to look this up on my phone, but there's a book that I got years ago and started to read with interest.

Let me just see if I can find it. It's it's it's definitely of relevance to our discussion here. I thought it was called brainwashed.

I may have it wrong, but it was it was an African American who had a major advertising company and talked about wrong ways of thinking and every every one of us from whatever our background ethnicity history. We have some right ways of thinking we have some wrong ways of thinking and to the extent that we know who we are in God and we have a sense of confidence and purpose and calling a lot of things are overcome. But there are there are a lot of narratives out there a lot of things that are being pushed.

How do we live these things out a big question? Hey some of the continue to talk about but thank you. Thank you for weighing in. I appreciate it. And again, I'm not looking for a right or wrong outcome here.

I'm looking for a discussion perspective. We go to Angelo no not Angelo. Let's go to Marie in Gastonia, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. Hey, how are you just fine? What's on your mind Marie? Well, I just me and my husband we go to work around this time every day.

So we usually put this radio station on and it's we like it because me and him come from very different backgrounds and you know similar in some ways. So we like to have you know discussions and I just wanted to I don't know call and just put my own discussion in there and I really do agree with some of the people who have been calling saying that if you know like the media and the politicians that are pretty much like using people of color to kind of like sell this narrative like, you know, we want to save you like you guys really need this help you guys are like, you know in poverty, you know kind of just like victimizing them and I just as a Christian. I know that the world right now like it's not like going to get any better. It's just going to keep you know going down the tubes until you know, Jesus comes back.

Are you sure are you sure about that? Are you totally sure the Bible teaches that? Well, I know in the Bible it says that before Christ comes like it mentions like like the birth pangs will get you know, more closer together meaning that you know as you know, like the closer we get to it, you know some things are I don't I don't that's not to say well here. Let me just let me just jump in and say this three things one the scripture. There's a lot of debate in terms of exactly how to understand future prophecy, but for sure the Bible talks about great climate also talks about great outpouring great harvest.

But in fact, I'll just say two things. The second thing is if everyone had the mentality things are only going to get worse before Jesus comes. Well if they had the mentality generation back to generation back to generation back to generation back. We never do anything.

We'd never have any improvement. What if the Lord doesn't come for 200 years and the next hundred years is the greatest in American history and then there's an apostasy or what if there's outpouring and and apostasy at the same time taking place. So that's I just don't want to buy into the pessimism.

I mean, why why are we I wasn't trying to be pessimistic. I was actually going to say that that's not to say that like the world is in complete despair right now and that it's just like we don't have any hope because we do have hope and you know, I think everyone says that Christianity is losing its followers, but Christianity like actually is gaining more followers. We have hope and you know, there's a lot of good resources out there and you know, a lot of good messages of the gospel to help bring people to Jesus and I guess what I was trying to say is like, you know, it's just we're going to get closer to that point.

Yeah. Well here again, here's the thing that the the attitude should always be one of faith and confidence in God, even if the whole world falls apart around us, right? So ultimately the attitude should be that that we believe God and we are overcomers.

So in the midst of it, we have a positive attitude, right? But I just jumped in also because we're at the end of the show and I wanted to make sure I said a few things. Thank you for weighing in maybe next time. We'll hear from your your husband, but thank you.

Thank you for both listening. So I just want to put some things together. There are many people in America today be it individually be it institutionally. There are many people in America who want to deepen our divisions over race. I oppose that. There are many in our society who want to make everything a matter of race.

I oppose that. I believe we must come together across racial and ethnic boundaries. We must listen to each other and we must do our best to give equal opportunity and level playing field for all.

Some cases it's easier done than others, but that's the goal. Let me repeat. I stand against those who constantly try to divide us over race. I stand against those who make everything into a matter of race. I stand with those who say especially as followers of Jesus let us listen to one another. Let us compare our life experiences. Let us separate fact from fiction and let us do our best to work towards equality and justice meaning equal playing field not equal outcome, not some socialist communist utopia, but an even playing field for all let's work together to make that a reality as much as we can be it in our neighborhood be it our immediate family, be it in our church circles, be it in our business. Let's do what we can because that's what we should do as followers of Jesus who love justice and who love justice. Change the world another program powered by the truth Network