The Conviction of Derek Chauvin and the Death of George Floyd

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Well, friends, we're going to do what we do here on the Line of Fire broadcast, which is speak the truth in love. Put out what we understand before the Lord and get your input, your feedback, and we're going to tackle controversies together. And I want to give you the right to call into the broadcast and say something that may offend me or that may sound negative. But if it's your perspective, I want to welcome you to share it. And then I want to welcome others to weigh in and share back if what they say is going to offend someone else. As long as we're not using profanity, which you get bleeped out, as long as we're not personally insulting each other in harsh ways, we must speak plainly because all of us have blind spots due to our upbringing, environment, our own perspective, and therefore as we humble ourselves before God, we listen and process, then we can grow together.

866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87884. So the nation on edge yesterday, Derek Chauvin found guilty on all three charges in the death of George Floyd. And you knew in advance, based on the verdict, what responses would be depending on who you are, depending on your background, depending on what news outlet, depending on you pretty well know what the responses are going to be, where the emphases are going to be. And then we're all in our own echo chambers and we're passing each other like ships in the night and we're ultimately not improving, growing, processing together. We're just further polarizing. We can't let that happen. We cannot let that happen.

To my black friends, to my white friends, to my Hispanic friends, to my Asian friends, to my Jewish friends, to my Gentile friends, to my male friends, to my female friends, we cannot let that happen. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to share with you an article that I wrote last night, prayerfully asking the Lord, do I weigh in? Is there something I have to say? So I'm doing my best to do this prayerfully, thoughtfully, to share things that will be constructive and helpful at such a sensitive, difficult time in our nation's history. I want to share these things. Then I want to share some responses I got from different perspectives. And then I want to hear from you. I want to devote the bulk of this broadcast to hearing from you. Here's the number to call, 866-348-7884. If you think I'm missing something in my article, you think I've got something really wrong, you want to affirm what I'm saying, you get to weigh in.

866-344-TRUTH. Okay. My article, I titled it Derek Chauvin, The Death of George Floyd and the Pursuit of Justice. Others have used different titles in posting it.

Over on the stream, it's posted as Derek Chauvin found guilty of George Floyd death. Can we now find common ground? Some say, where are we finding common ground? Don't worry about the title. Listen to the article. All right. I'm going to run through this with you as I wrote it, share a few responses I've gotten from very different perspectives.

And you'll understand why I'm doing what I'm doing. So when you write an article like this, you basically set yourself up to get shot at from both sides. But that's fine. My role here is to facilitate thoughtful, constructive discussion with openness and honesty so we can learn from each other, correct each other and move forward. Fair enough.

So here's what I wrote. Guilty on all three counts. That was the sentence heard across America's former police officer, Derek Chauvin was found guilty of second degree unintentional murder, third degree murder and second degree manslaughter. What are we to make of this trial and the events and comments surrounding it?

The answer to that question depends on who he is. So obviously a lot to process the verdicts themselves. We're not doing that. I didn't follow every detail of the trial. I'm not qualified to give a legal judgment here without digging in deeper and listening to other legal pundits, et cetera. So we're simply relating to this happened.

So how do we respond to this? Well, it depends on who you ask. To many black Americans, this was a watershed moment. First, for them, the gut wrenching video of Floyd's death while under Chauvin's knee was undeniable testimony to the police brutality they've experienced for years. In their eyes, there's no question that Chauvin would not have treated a white man in this way. And there's no question was guilt.

This, they would say, is what they've experienced for decades, let alone centuries past. And now there is indisputable video evidence. Second, the guilty verdicts proved that the police can no longer get away with murder, especially with the murder of a black man. Too many artists are watching and justice must be done. So many Afro-Americans, you would say, yeah, that's, this is like at last the whole world sees what we've been going through. And thankfully we finally got justice. It doesn't take away the pain, but thankfully finally got justice.

Many would say that's how we've been feeling and we're trying to get America to understand our pain. Now, many white conservatives, George Floyd's tragic death had nothing to do with race. In other words, we all agree it's tragic.

It's horrific. Never should have happened. But many white conservatives would say this has nothing to do with race. First they'd say, we don't know for sure that Chauvin's treatment of Floyd was race-based. Perhaps he mistreated whites as well, or perhaps it was based on Chauvin and Floyd knowing each other outside of this confrontation. There's question because they worked in the same place if they did.

But Chauvin certainly had a bad record of mistreatment of others in the past. Second, many white conservatives would argue that statistically it's more likely for a white person to be killed by police than a black person. They'd also point out that it's more likely for a black cop to pull the trigger on a black suspect than for a white cop to pull the trigger on a black suspect.

Check out Heather Macdonald's book War on Cops for more on this. For liberal Americans, this is the moment to refocus on the question of systemic racism. In the words of President Biden, it was a murder in the full light of day, and it ripped the blindness off for the whole world to see the systemic racism, a stain on our nation's soul. Conservatives would respond, actually, we don't know this had anything to do with racism, let alone with systemic racism. Many would also add to the contrary, this is an example of race-baitors like Representative Maxine Waters potentially inciting violence with her irresponsible comments.

That's where the problem lies. And by the way, if you're following the reports on this in different news outlets, conservative, liberal, etc., you're getting these different responses. Then, for Hollywood's elite, like Oprah, the guilty verdicts were cause for rejoicing. She wrote, relieved and emotional in ways I didn't expect. I cried tears of joy as each verdict was read. I'm grateful to the witnesses and their testimonies, grateful to Darnella Frazier, grateful to every juror for seeing and acknowledging what the world saw on the tape.

Thank you, God, for real. For the law and order crowd, the lessons are clear. Number one, don't commit a crime. Number two, don't resist arrest. Number three, don't expect a fair trial when governmental leaders are calling for violence, when protesters are ready to burn down cities, and when the judge doesn't sequester the jury. So this is different perspectives that different people are sharing. So what do I want to add into the discussion?

I want to get your responses. So first, first, after years of regular interaction with the black American community, I have no reason to question the horror stories they've related to me. For example, when a black pastor calls my show, I'm talking about a God-fearing, law-abiding conservative who agrees with me point for point in the culture wars, and he tells me about how he had to lecture his teenage boys about behavior around police lest they be shot. I believe him, especially when I get call after call like this, when his story is one of many that I've heard. In fact, shortly after the Chauvin verdict was announced, I was talking to a 40-year-old black man who's over at my house repairing a piece of exercise equipment, a treadmill, and he told me about an absolutely traumatic experience he had with the policeman who's 21, with a gun stuck in his face, fearing for his life, yet no reason was given to him for being stopped.

He said that to this day, when he sees a police car in his rearview mirror, he breaks into a cold sweat. This is 20 years later. Having studied the issue of fair sentencing in America, I do believe that inequalities remain for black Americans and that we must continue to strive for justice. Second, there are other questions that must be asked as well, such as what's behind the high crime rate among young black Americans, which makes them more likely targets for profiling. Who's to blame for this and what can be done holistically to repair this? This is not an accusation.

I'm not accusing. I'm saying what can we do together as society to try to address this? Third, race baiting is very real and very destructive.

Really now, is this how America is supposed to function with protesters ready to vandalize our communities if an unfavorable verdict is reached? Fourth, I believe that we must address all sides of the race issue in America, also asking uncomfortable questions such as why has fatherlessness in black American homes reached an epidemic level and why is it much worse today than it was before the civil rights movement? Again, I'm not implying white guilt here or black guilt. I'm simply saying we have to ask these questions.

Why are things the way they are? Fifth, we need to find out why certain police officers behave as they do. Certain, not all, but certain ones. Is it because their lives are so often threatened? Is it because they're poorly trained?

Or is it because they're power hungry and or racist? So the bottom line is that there's not one single correct perspective on the death of George Floyd and the conviction of Derek Chauvin. And to simply pontificate in the safety of our own echo chamber is to accept the status quo. And I say in keeping with my historic policy that we should all make each other a little uncomfortable with conservatives asking liberals for their perspective and vice versa, with whites asking people of color for their perspective and vice versa. Then, having listened and reflected, we can form a more balanced and truthful point of view. We might end up more convinced than ever that our perspective is the right one, but at least let's challenge ourselves to listen and think and empathize first.

Rojan posted, take God's side. Yeah, well, we're always trying to do it, but we're going to process things based on our own history upbringing. So one black brother wrote this to me.

If I mentioned his name, many of you would know who he is. I said in my article and he said, provocative article. My general feeling is that there is no doubt the jury got this right and that Chauvin's actions were race-based. When it comes to racism, white conservatives often want proof way beyond reasonable doubt before admitting it was racism. You can go back to slavery and Jim Crow and find white Christians saying there's no racism.

I also don't think it's statistically more likely per capita for whites to be killed by police, sure, in total, just because there's so many more whites in the country. I'd also add that systemic racism is not just the current laws, which is another, I believe, erroneous claim made by conservatives. Systemic racism also has to do with the tremendous head start whites have been given because of past racism. For instance, you know why there are barely any blacks who can afford to buy professional sports teams, past racism. The wealth gap that has a white household headed by a guy with a high school diploma with more wealth than a black household led by someone with an advanced degree is another example of systemic racism that is based in the past, more in the present. White Christians' refusal to acknowledge systemic racism and act toward eliminating it is a huge obstacle to racial unity in the body of Christ. So this is a black brother saying, hey, provocative article.

This is a friend, a colleague. We're in agreement on so much. We're in agreement here saying, yeah, past racism still has effects today.

So this is how he is seeing things. I'm going to read some white responses to you on the other side of the break here, but I want to hear from you. I want you to weigh in. Tell me what you think, honestly, in terms of what I've said. Will you agree?

Will you think I'm missing it? How did you respond? What was your reaction when you heard the verdicts being announced yesterday? 866-3-4-truth. We'll be right back. That's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for calling the line of fire. I want to make this plain. My purpose is not to provoke controversy. That's, that's worthless. That's silly. That's immature.

It's just ratings. No, no, no. My purpose is to glorify the Lord and help us follow truth and pursue justice together. I am not trying to prove to blacklishes, oh, I'm so woke. Oh, I get it. Oh yeah, right. That's that's going to sell. You're going to be convinced.

Right, right. And I'm not trying to prove to whitelaces, oh, I'm holding the line of conservatism. I'm trying to follow Jesus. I'm trying to follow Jesus. And I do it together with my family. We learn from each other. We grow together in God. 866-3-4-truth.

Going to go to your calls in a moment. But, but I posted on Facebook after my article, because comments started coming in, made it clear that people hadn't read the article at all. I said, please be kind enough to explain, excuse me, I said, be sure to read the article before commenting.

So a gentleman named James, a pastor, citizen evangelist and prophet as well. James posted, you wimp out. And then elsewhere said, Candace Owen speaks the truth, you wimp out. So I don't know him at all, but I decided to respond. And I said, please be kind enough to explain how I wimped out by honestly speaking the truth in love.

Perhaps you're whipping out by refusing to see your own blind spots? He wrote back, you assume automatically what a black person says is right and that all police are racist. Now, if you just heard the article, no, I don't assume that what a black person says is right, that all police are racist.

No. But when I hear from enough black listeners, viewers, friends, all telling me the same story about life experience, I don't think they're making it up. Okay? And I've never said or even hinted for a second that all police or most police are racist. Quite the contrary. Anyway, he continues, you sound like a liberal news reporter.

The statistics don't prove what you say. And you wrote this article and saying that I have a blind spot. And then he goes on, that's falsely judging him. So I wrote back, I said, actually, you revealed a lot about yourself in your comments. In any case, you've completely misjudged me and misread the article as well.

I wish you God's grace and truth. He responded, and you, sir, have continued to judge me. If you don't want disagreement, then don't write any articles.

I'm judging your article. I did not call you a false whatever. It is nothing personal, but you made it about yourself. Remember his opening comment to me, you wimp out. That was about me as a personal attack of it.

You wimp out. That's what he said. So I responded. You see the interaction here. And this is from a white brother. So I shared with you a black brother said now a white brother. And I wrote back, I said, quite the contrary, sir. I welcome disagreements. I call out personal attacks as with your opening comment.

Again, I wish you God's grace and truth. He responded, and you insulted me, sir, by your statement about me. Untrue statements. These are different perspectives.

Kevin posted this. Dr. Brown, you could have really addressed a lot of issues that face the black community, but instead you continue to pile on the police. So isn't this interesting that a white person here reads my article and thinks I'm piling on the police. A black person reads the article and thinks I'm not sufficiently addressing issues of systemic racism.

Okay. Just this is why we need to talk. This is why we need to talk to each other and listen to each other. To your credit, you did talk about absentee fathers in the black community. What you chose to leave out is black on black crime and how many children in the black community are raised to hate the police and how they view the police as the enemy, even the black law enforcement officers.

The systemic problem in our country is the proliferation of sin and evil behavior. That, Dr. Brown, is no skin color. You talk about bringing people of all races together, but you continue to stir the pot of racism with your rhetoric. How is this supposed to bring us together?

Now, the thing that's amazing is my article is doing anything but stirring the pot of racism. It is rather sharing different perspectives and challenging us to listen to each other. When we're done listening, we can still differ.

When we're done listening, we may even have stronger convictions, but at least listen first. At least ask questions. At least ask someone, how are you feeling now? How does this affect you?

What's going on in your life? I'm talking about brothers and sisters. We don't do this, friends.

We don't have the love of God. It's that simple. And I appreciate people weighing in, fully appreciate people weighing in, sharing perspectives. That's what I asked for. Let's have the uncomfortable conversations. All right.

We start in Louisville, Kentucky. Brian, thanks for calling into the line of fire. Thanks for having me, Dr. Brown. I'm a longtime fan and a longtime listener. I've noticed that things, you know, you're decently left to center on this. I, I appreciate that. And I wish you'd be a little more on LGBT issues, too. But I have to say, you kind of surprised me on that.

But I am a longtime fan. What I was going to say is the reason I think crime stats are high in black communities, you've probably heard this before and you may agree with that. You know, you go back to slavery and segregation. Blacks had to live in separate societies where white wealthy folks invested in societies and white workers filled the gaps. Those didn't exist in black communities. They lived, you know, in societies that were jobless, company-less, corporation-less, et cetera, et cetera. And so that carries on today where there are no jobs, no opportunities, no schooling, no tax money to go towards schools.

People grow up, they turn to drugs, they turn to crime, et cetera. So I think blacks have played catch up since the 1860s. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said the same thing. And I think that's where it is. I hate to say, well, it all dates back to slavery, but it does. And so I think you may agree on that.

Yeah. So in other words, the effects of past systemic racism in our country right through segregation, that that does not just go away, that there are ongoing effects, a legacy of it. Explain one thing to me, Brian. In what way am I, quote, left of center in what I'm sharing? Just to understand your perspective. Well, and I've listened to you for years and you're one of the top intellectuals in messianic things. I come from a Jewish background. Left of center in the evangelical world, because I've heard police, white conservative evangelicals, some of them say, oh, it's all his fault, Floyd, he got himself into this situation. Ah, got it. To me, you seem pretty moderate in your article.

I mean, to me, I've read a lot of evangelicals that are way to the right of you, Armitage. Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate that. What's interesting, of course, I don't actually comment on the verdict at all in the article, the rightness or the wrongness of the verdict. Don't say a word on that, but rather responses to it and how different ones are affected.

But for sure, for sure. Derek Floyd, excuse me, George Floyd, whatever crimes he committed, whatever drugs were in the system, it ultimately comes out of this as a victim. He's not a hero. Nancy Pelosi said, you know, he gave his life and he didn't give his life. He didn't want to die like anyone else wouldn't want to die.

He was pleading for his life tragically. So I fully understand why there ends up being conviction. I understand why there's going to be pushback against the convictions. But for sure, though, being out of the country, being out of America about 200 times myself, so working with folks around the world, spending maybe three plus years of my life outside of America combined and having solid, godly black friends that share their own experience and then listening to callers for years and years really does make me to understand that when you have some of the African-Americans saying this is what we've experienced, they're not making it up. You know, on the other hand, I do understand that many things are blown into race issues that aren't race issues, you know, or that if it had been a white man under Derek Chauvin's knee, that it wouldn't have the attention that it has in terms of police brutality, et cetera.

But anyway, I'm not even arguing with you, just curious for your perspective. So thank you. Thank you for weighing in, Brian. And that's the whole thing.

The last comment to you, Brian, I am. See, here's the interesting thing. There is this assumption that if you're a conservative, especially a white conservative, then you side with the police in law and order. And if you're liberal, if you're a black American, then you side with the victim in the why should there be assumptions?

Everything should be evaluated based on truth in each situation. And as followers of Jesus, we're never gonna fit. All conservative, all liberal, all right, all to the...we're never gonna fit in that because following Jesus is gonna challenge a lot of those narratives. Hey, thank you, Brian, for weighing in.

866-342. Let's go to Robert in Central Coast, California. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello, Dr. Brown. Yeah, I was just going to comment on my own viewpoint in that I grew up in a relatively small town in California. There weren't very many black people. And this whole thing about racism, you know, we thought, you know, no, we're not racist.

You know, that's just that's for somebody else. And then I went in the US Navy and got stationed in various places around the globe. And I found out for myself, I had racist views within me. And I saw others that had written I saw black people being treated unfairly.

And then I got stationed in Hawaii. And the white person there, I'm a white person, I'm a white Gentile, the white person's called a Howley. And then, you know, the people of Hawaii, a lot of them, I don't know what number, they hate Howleys because we took over their island.

And so there's tremendous prejudice against the Howley. And so I got a taste of some of the things that I was denying within myself, that in fact, I did have some racist views. And I got to go through it myself. And it really did a lot to heal and repentance in my own heart that, you know, this is an issue that needs to be dealt with and needs to be talked about. And I'm glad we're doing it. And that's just my view.

Yeah, well, first, I appreciate your honesty. And again, with I was doing a conference and it was basically all black brothers. And I was being interviewed by a black brother. And we started off.

So it was a virtual conference, leadership conference. But we started off with questions about race and racism in the church. And look, for many people, it's you're not there's not a racist bone in your body. In other words, you care about everyone equally.

You want everyone to have the equal opportunities. You don't judge people by color of skin, etc. But you may have a certain heritage, a certain background, you realize the effect of that.

In other words, this a lot of things are ignorance. And then as we learn and we grow, or we experience hatred ourselves for we are as a Jew, being hated as a Jew, and our history of anti-Semitism at the hands of the church, stuff like that. We just expand our perspective with openness before God. I don't feel white guilt for a second in my life.

I love Jesus, but I want to serve others. That means listening to It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Let me put something before you and show you how different people react to the same statement. All right, this is Michael Brown.

Welcome to the line of fire. We are processing the Derek Chauvin convictions, the three guilty verdicts in the death of George Floyd, processing that today and doing our best to listen to each other and to learn from each other and to see where we may have some blind spots in our own lives or lacking perspective. So the statement black lives matter. Someone may hear that and say, absolutely, for centuries in American history, black lives didn't matter. It seems they could be discarded and no jury would side with a black person against a white person. It felt like black lives didn't matter.

We need to state that. Someone responds with, well, all lives matter. Then the response back is also if we're having a drive for the cure of cancer and raising money for cancer research, do you respond with, well, all diseases are important?

No, because you recognize this is important too. Then someone else says, of course, every life matters and every black life matters. But the black lives matter movement is terrible. It's Marxist and it's destructive and it's part of critical race theory and it's hurting America and it doesn't care about all black lives. In other words, different people hear this and from their own perspective and each side is saying something true.

Each side is saying something new. We need to affirm the value of very black life because in much of American history it has not been affirmed. And then the other is like, yeah, but we need to realize the dangers of the BLM movement. And then in this case, we need to understand why so many African Americans have been suspicious of police and have felt that they were being wrongly profiled and prejudged and subject to violence through our history and couldn't get fair jury verdicts. We need to understand that. It's not just a made up perspective. At the same time, others need to realize, hey, you cannot have mob justice. You cannot have political leaders threatening violence.

They don't get the verdict that you cannot have that. And both perspectives are true and need to be heard. I'm not trying to play both ends against the middle. Trust me, when you do this, you get hit from both sides. You get hated, misunderstood, attacked from both sides. I'm doing my best to challenge each of us to think of outside of our own little box, but also to help each of us inform others of the truth or rightfulness of our perspective. It's six, six, three, four truth.

Let's go to Victor in Tennessee. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown. It's an honor to talk to you. Thank you.

I have a few things real quick. I'm a Latino, first of all. And first and foremost, I'm a believer. I'm also a Latino. And as a believer, the human race, that's one race. I mean, I don't know if it is.

I think it was in 1978 where they started using race as a pigmentation shade. And to me, this thing about discrimination and prejudice against one color of skin against the other or place of origin, what I see is that the people that cries or scream the most about racism are racist themselves. That's that's what I don't understand. And I would like to see your perspective on that.

Yes. So, so, Victor, of course, we are one race, the human race. And in Jesus, we are all equal, male, female, black, white, Asian, Latino.

We're all equal in Jesus to Gentile. And rather than look at differences in a negative way, we should look at the beauty and the diversity and the amazing gifts that each culture can bring. I agree with you 100 percent that racism goes in many different directions. I agree with you that that there is white racism against blacks, that there's black racism against whites, that there is, you know, Asian, Latino, Latino, whatever, that racism goes in all different directions. Now, there's a new definition, sir, that people are putting on it, that that's prejudice. Racism has to do with power.

So unless you are the dominant culture, you can't be racist. I don't accept that definition. To me, that's now changing a commonly used term to set things up to say, hey, I can hate these people. I can despise these people. I can judge these people. But as long as I don't have power, I'm not being a racist for doing it.

No, I reject that. And of course, it goes in all directions. But right now, we want to focus on understanding the pain of many African-Americans, why so many identify with with with George Floyd. Then we also want to look at larger issues of justice system and the mobocracy and things like this. We want to try to look at these different perspectives. But for sure, racism goes in all directions.

It is it is a deadly, ugly, destructive plague that should have no part in the body of Christ whatsoever. And, you know, we need to just ask ourselves questions. You know, the uncomfortable questions. Would you you know, if you if you had emergency surgery, you're rushed into into a hospital and and the person that's going to operate on you is Asian or Latino or black or white. You can see by the name tag, they're Jewish. Is it does affect you a certain way? If if, you know, there was babysitter coming over, would it affect you based on ethnicity or race or just just questions like that?

Little questions to get ourselves thinking if we haven't. Hey, Victor, thank you for the call. 866-342. Let's go to Alice in Plano, Texas. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Thank you for having me, Dr. Brown. So I'm from Baltimore, Maryland, but I live in Plano, Texas now. And I very much do disagree with the old racist, you know, black or white, white or black, everything that's going on today.

And I don't agree with anything that BLM has to say. Now, I grew up in a very troubled area. I saw a lot of bad things happen from different people. I knew who had died in many incidents.

I would just say that much not to get descriptive on the call. But my parents, they enforced in us that we had to be successful in life, that we had to treat each other fairly. Although my mom did educate us about our past, about racism, things that we might have to do to allow ourselves to be equal to people who are white. Not once did my mom also tell us to go and be racist towards anyone. Now growing up in Baltimore, that's a tough life. You know, things can be rough out there. But my brother went to the United States Naval Academy and received two nominations.

He retired recently as a lieutenant colonel from the United States Marine Corps. I served in the Army, got to travel around the world. And now I'm a senior networking security engineer. And I make pretty good money. And my sister is a wonderful stay at home mom of four kids.

She's already out of the house, and she's married and has three kids. And so I don't agree with it because, granted, we grew up in an environment that was bad, that wasn't great. We saw a lot of bad stuff.

But how my parents raised us, very strict, by the way, and it taught us to respect God, to respect each other, it's made us a better product of society. And so when I see these protests and what happened with George Floyd and all these other recent incidents, if we continue to look through it through the lens of racism, well, then that's the first thing we're going to see. But if we look at it through the lens of this, just these are people and there is an issue that's going on, then let's analyze it and break it down and try to better understand what happened. Instead of letting our emotions get out of control and say, yeah, this is racist, this is racist.

I 100 percent disagree with all of it. And I will say and this is not to say anything against my black America or anything like that. But I've lived in predominantly white neighborhoods since I exited the military.

And I have yet to run into a problem. But when I go into the city and you see police cars there all the time, you hear the sirens constantly. Then why is it that in the black communities, as you said before, why is there so much? Why are there no fathers around? There's something that is going on within the black culture. And that's why so many have exited. And they go on to live in these other communities and they don't go back and get back to those communities because, well, they're afraid for their lives because they saw enough issues growing up to say, I don't want to live there anymore.

So Alice, first, it's great to hear your story and all your family and the example your parents said and what a testimony to others. And even more broadly speaking, if I constantly have a victim mentality and my hardship is everybody else's fault, it's virtually impossible to grow. So here's the big question to ask. We agree 100 percent. I'm a million percent sure that we agree that blacks are not inferior to whites and whites are not inferior to blacks. Right. I mean, we obviously even to make that generic statement, you have to make it because we didn't always have that viewpoint in our history. And yet you have, say, more broken homes in black America, higher crime rates, lower per capita income. So there's there's a history that somehow got us where we are.

Right. So how do how do we fix that holistically? Because you have the broken homes.

Thankfully, you were raised by both your parents. I mean, there's 90 percent of the battle won right there. But what can we do together as America rather than accusing each other, say, OK, we're in this situation now. It's not because one group is inferior to the other group. What can we do together to move forward to make America better for everybody?

What do you think? I think that's an excellent question, Dr. Brown. And I will say that when I think back to my childhood and growing up and I look at some of the videos and the music and the popularity of certain artists today, you know, sexuality is so immensely among, you know, the minority communities. And I would say in the communities and for for black America and promiscuity is promoted. It's celebrated. It's something that you have to go through or you have to do in order to be accepted.

If you're not bad, you're not good. And people thrive on that. And I think that's kind of part of the problem, because a lot of these kids, they're in high school, they get involved. And next thing you know, they have kids themselves. You have kids raising kids. And then it just keeps happening because now mom isn't home. I mean, like the young man who was just recently shot, he was gone for two days.

Where were his parents? Why didn't they even call in and say that he was missing? Something is wrong there. And I just think I mean, I agree with you. How do we fix that?

That's a very good question. And I think we do probably need to go back into our neighborhoods and try to teach these young black men and women to respect their bodies and to respect each other and that there's nothing wrong. And let me preface this.

My niece went to school and you know that she was teased for having both parents at home. And this is in Baltimore. Hey, Alice, I got to jump in. I'd love to talk at greater length. We've got a break.

I've got to get to more calls. Hey, listen, friends, this is not a matter of white guilt, black guilt. This is a matter of as followers of Jesus, where we see a problem, where we see a problem that is a remnant of our past sins. How do we address it today? How do we fix it today?

Rather than attacking each other, how can we work together to make America a better place for everybody? Thank you for the call. It's the Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution. Get into the Line of Fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, I'm going straight to the phones. I'm going to try to get to as many calls as I can. But we are all lit up over in North Carolina on our board here.

We'll start with Bob in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Yeah, hi.

I don't know your program. I don't really know. I haven't read your article, but I was out in my car, just happened to have it on. I want to try to set you straight.

So before I do this, I don't want to offend anybody, and I want to say that I'm a Christian for 30 years, okay? But there is not truth in both perspectives here. So you're saying that we need to hear different perspectives and analyze it from different angles.

That is not the case here. Can I just ask you a question, Bob? How are you going to set me straight when you don't know the program and you didn't hear the article or read the article? How are you setting me straight on what? I'm going off of what you've been saying for the last 20 minutes. Oh, okay. Go ahead. So for what you've been saying for the last 20 minutes. Got it. Go ahead.

Okay. So as I was saying, you were saying that we need to listen to the perspective from the other side, and I'm here to tell you that there is no systemic racism in our police forces. There is no systemic racism in the United States, okay?

This is the country that actually... Well, Bob, hang on, Bob, Bob, hang on. So you're right, and everybody else with a differing opinion is wrong. Just to make it clear, there is no other side.

But when did I say that there is... I called in. I have a perspective I'd like to share with you.

I know, but I'm just trying to be clear. I want you to be playing. I want you to hear what you're saying and how it sounds, okay?

Yep. All right. So number one... Well, if you let me give you my opinion... And number one... Bob, Bob, Bob... I'll let you know why I think I have a good opinion.

Tell you what, if you listen to me, I'll let you give your opinion. Fair enough? Go ahead. Thanks.

Thanks. Number one, I did not say that there is systemic racism in our country. I said that there has been, and the legacy of that remains today. And I didn't say there is systemic racism in the police force. What I did say is, I believe the accounts of many, many African Americans I've talked to for decades who've had bad experiences with the police. So that's what I've said. So feel free to weigh in with your perspective.

Yeah, thanks. I didn't say that you said those things. What I said is that you said that we need to listen to the other perspective. And what I'm telling you is that that's not correct, the other perspective. So the reason I'm calling is because I grew up in the Northeast, a lot like the sister that was just before me, and I really appreciate her and her point of view. So growing up in the Northeast, I was a white boy growing up in a black neighborhood.

And so I have a perspective that I think is probably a lot more informed than maybe yours, because I heard you say that you formed your opinion of the perspective from the other side based on what brothers have told you. Okay, I actually lived in a community. All right. So I don't mean to offend. But what I want to say is that there is a lot of racism in the black community.

Okay. Of course, there's racism in the white community. But the racism in the black community is a lot of it comes from the left. And they're telling the black community that the their problem of why they can't get ahead is because of racism in the white community. And my point of view is that I don't believe that that's correct. We do not have systemic racism in our police force or in the United States.

We fought a civil war to do away with slavery. This, of course, there's racism across the board. But white people are not systemically racist.

And when and so people like that's it. That's a big statement. Yeah, but see, here's where you completely judge me, bro, just to be candid with you.

You don't have a clue who I am. Excuse me, a virtue signaling is missing the whole point, the whole point. So by the way, so civil war did away with racism in America. So the hundred years of segregation that that is meaningless.

And the fact that the average net worth of a black family is way under a white family because of history, that is meaningless. And the fact that I said to a previous caller, of course, black racism exists. And the fact that I said in my article that the race beaters like Maxine Waters and others are doing damage, destructive damage and are hurting everything.

And the mobocracy is hurting everything. So you're not listening, man. That's the problem. You're not listening. You're weighing in without listening. That's the whole reason we're having these discussions.

I completely look. I've written article after article after article blasting the BLM movement. That whole show is blasting the BLM movement while saying, of course, every black life matters. But we categorically deal with the categorically different with the BLM movement. I've opposed the race baiting for decades, obviously.

And at the same time, I'm going to address issues that are really here. And it's not just it's not simply that. Look, my my second organ teacher was a black man married to a white woman.

And my you know, and I my best friend when I was in kindergarten was it was a black kid in New York City. In any case, the key thing is you completely misread who I am, completely misread who I am. And they weighed in with vast overstatements. And I'm thinking of all the people think, oh, yes. So the Civil War eradicated races in America. Right. Right. Sure. When were the first sports played by black sports league, separate black sports leagues? And Jackie Robinson?

I mean, it's a color barrier. And anyway, keep listed, though. We'll get to interact again, I assure you.

It's six, six, three, four, truth. Let's go to Brian in Concord, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown.

Hey, thank you so much. I'm actually glad that I came out to that call it not to not going to get in the back and forth. But man, I have been listening to you since about 2014, 15. And then every time I've listened to you, never have you went with the wind, how it blows. I want to say that first, because I've heard you let people on the on your line and actually debate with you not being rude to them and talk to them that were on the left side.

Right. When when President Trump was first getting voted with elections for the first first time, I've seen you do that. I've seen you also bring people from the right. I've seen everything about you shows that you go with the word you go with the spirit and not where the conversation drives. You sit back, you listen.

And I haven't looked at the autograph. I promise you, I will read that today. But man, I thank you. And I praise God for you.

I pray for you. And I want you to keep doing. And regardless of what anybody else says, never stop. Hey, Brian.

Well, thanks, man. And listen, as followers of Jesus, we're always going to end up with unpopular viewpoints. And then as we're just trying to walk in humility, you know, we're you got to listen and learn along the way and then come to conclusions and so on. But if we can't if we can't do that together here on the air, how are we going to do this in our own communities? And so, Brian, thanks, man, because that's my heart to follow the Lord. You know, it's wild is is is when you do that, you're always going to get opposed from different sides. But the goal is is not to make people happy.

The goal is to please the Lord and serve people. So thank you for the call. It means a lot to me, man.

I appreciate it. Absolutely. Can I make one more point? Yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead. Um, I just want to point racism definitely didn't end then because in 1979 in Greensboro, North Carolina, the KKK were killing people on live TV and got away with it. That's just to throw it out there. Racism has still existed. But thanks by God, we're not going to get baited by what people say racism is. We're going to work together as a Christian body and fix it all. Amen.

And we're not going to let the culture take over. We're going to do it together in Jesus name. Amen. Thanks, Brian. All right.

Thank you. 866. Well, I need to give out the number. We just got minutes left. Let's go to Captain. Captain Mitchell's gone. Let's go to Beverly in Greensboro, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Dr. Brown. I just wanted to make a comment that when the verdict came out and I was watching, I was almost afraid to breathe. And I just prayed and hope that there wasn't going to be more backlash and looting across the line. And yeah, so were you concerned that if the verdict if children was acquitted, that there'd be violence? Did you feel that the jury could come to a fair verdict in light of that hanging over their heads?

I sure just was hoping and praying that they could. I just was almost afraid to breathe. You know, some people cried.

I was almost afraid to breathe. And I just always feel like we need to treat each other as we want to be treated. And we're all down here on God's green earth, breathing the same air. And it goes back to that when we bleed, we all want to bleed red. And can we all get along? Yeah.

And look, here's the here's the bottom line. We all need each other in order to thrive as human beings. We need each other and we need to respect the gifts and the graces and different cultures and backgrounds. And then we need to be able to speak plainly to each other to say, hey, here's a weakness or here's something to address. How can we address it together? Hey, Beverly, thanks for the call. And let's keep praying.

I'm sorry I couldn't get to every caller. Obviously issues where somebody want to weigh in. God willing, when relevant, we'll continue the discussion.

Just looking at a note on Facebook saying, please interview Dennis Prager or Vodi Bauchum or Jesse Peterson or Candace Owens and they'll debunk systemic racism. I can make the argument for it. I can make the argument against it. I understand the different points of view. I absolutely oppose the race baiting and the victimology.

I absolutely oppose the discarding of the past as if it does not have impact on the present. What I'm saying is together we must sit down, ask for one of those perspectives and then agree. Can we pursue justice, righteousness, wholeness, healing together? That's our calling. That's the mandate. I'm in. Are you? Good to go.