Will Elon Musk’s Neuralink Make it Possible to Control Electronic Devices with Our Minds?

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Oh, this is gonna be a fascinating discussion.

Trust me on that. This is gonna be a fascinating discussion. I'm gonna speak with biochemist Fuz Rana from Reasons to Believe about Elon Musk's Neuralink. What is it? What should we make of it?

Where is artificial intelligence and beyond going? We'll talk about that at the bottom of the hour. 866-34-TRUTH. Phone lines are open for anything you want to talk to me about.

866-34-87-884. And gobbling on tomorrow's broadcast, Thursday Jewish Thursday, we'll unpack what's happened with the Israeli elections. Yeah, things may change dramatically between now and tomorrow in terms of coalitions and things shifting, otherwise there may be another deadlock. So we'll take that up on thoroughly Jewish Thursday. We won't be getting into that today, but it is important and we do want to double back to it. Friends, America is ripe for revival and visitation. Why do I say that? Because we're in a messed up state.

Because America is as broken and confused and divided as I've ever seen it in my lifetime, and hurting, and looking for answers, and further polarizing in its divisions. And the church in many ways is as broken as I've ever seen it in my lifetime. With scandals, with hyper-politization, with oh you name it, we could go through a list of issues that have happened in the church that have us in a very humbled state. Jesus says it is the sick who need a physician. Jesus said blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they shall be filled. Psalm 63, the psalmist spoke of a hunger he had for God and for his presence. That was a longing, that was a passionate thirst and desire. Revival comes with a sense of urgency.

Revival comes because it's revival or else. It's God's visitation or else. And I want to look with you at Habakkuk chapter 3. Habakkuk chapter 3. The prophet is writing in an extreme time in the history of Judah. He has seen the great sin in the midst of his nation and has cried out to God. And God shows him what he's going to do in answer to that cry. He's going to bring judgment, the Chaldeans, the Babylonians and they're gonna decimate Judah and bring their idol worship in with them. And Habakkuk sees this and the cure is worse than the disease and he cries out and in the third chapter there's a psalm, there's a prayer. And in verse 2 he says these very very poignant words. I'm gonna paraphrase what the text says for you.

But it's basically this. We've heard about what you've done in the past. We've heard about the great miracles, the great outpourings and and the awakenings and and the stirrings and the miracles and Mount Sinai and Exodus and we've heard about what you've done in the past. But Lord do it again in our day. Make these things known in our day. Grandpa's stories won't save this generation.

Grandma's encounters won't change the young people. We need a fresh encounter with your hand now. We need to see your hand stretched out today. So do it again in our day.

New JPS. Oh Lord I've learned of your renown. I've heard about it.

It's it's amazing. Now do it again. Renew them in these years. Make them known in our time and then in wrath remember mercy. Though angry may you remember compassion. Friends that's why there's a sense of urgency with revival because you recognize judgment is near. You recognize it's revival or else.

I have a book coming out September. Revival or we die. And I want you to hear what revival scholar James Edwin Orr had to say about this. Here he is in his 80s and he's lecturing about revival and there's a striking statement about revival being like Judgment Day.

Listen to what Dr. Orr had to say. You heard of the shantung revival. Miss Olive was there.

But that revival was felt in every province of China. And when it reached Sichuan, W. W. Castle summed it up in five words. Surprise. Five words. He said it is like Judgment Day.

Now Miss Olive is right here and she won't mind my referring to her. She remembers what she saw in China when she was a young missionary. It wasn't hooping and hollering. It was like Judgment Day with weeping and confessing. A lot of people think that revival is a tremendous time of excitement and a great roll call of converts and so forth. It begins like Judgment Day with the Holy Spirit exposing all the sins of the church.

Now this is something we don't realize. That first stage of revival after the prayer is conviction of sin. Judgment precedes blessing. Now I've told you stories of the Welsh Revival. A hundred thousand people outside the churches converted and joined the churches in five months. Five years later someone wrote a book to debunk the movement and complained that after five years only 75% still stood. He said many were lost to mission halls and to the Pentecostals.

Some of them couldn't stand the dryness some people want to go back to. Mmm. Revival is like Judgment Day. Starts with conviction of sin and confession of sin and then out of that comes the joy and the renewal. I want to take you into a very sacred moment.

I just found this clip last night. It was in the midst of the Brownsville Revival so in the late 1990s and there was an altar call that evangelist Steve Hill had given. People were up at the altar getting right with God and I got gripped with a tremendous burden to tell the story.

I don't remember telling it more than once. I remember telling it another time during the revival but I want you to feel the urgency. I want you to feel the intensity. I want you to feel what it's like when God is convicting and the Holy Spirit is drawing people and it's this sense of if you don't get right tonight it could be all over. Listen to this call from Pensacola in the midst of Revolve. You want to know urgency? You want to know intensity? Listen to this.

Everyone that's here knows I've never I've never spoken when I'm about to speak here before. It's the urgent people in the chapel, the cafeteria. It's urgent. There was a ship that went down about two years ago with over a thousand Swedes on it between Estonia and Sweden and Finnish waters. It was the worst disaster in peacetime. The worst sea disaster. Over 900 people died. Terrible waves. People perishing.

It happened. And you know that there are some Bible school students who are on that boat. My friends know some of these people.

Listen to me. They're on that boat. One of them had a dream that the ship was going down and he shared it with others and they just thought it was some spiritual vision he had. But they were sitting on this ship as it was going across and they began to talk to each other and they said what are we sitting here for?

We should go around preaching. This happened. It's the untold part of the story. It happened. And they went around preaching and they said what if this ship went down tonight? What if the ship went down tonight?

Are you ready to be gone? Would you be in heaven or hell? And then suddenly bang the ship is down and almost all the people perished in the waters. And some of those Bible school students made it out. The one who had the vision the moment he heard the smash he ran and he made it out and others gave their lives helping people.

But do you know that eyewitnesses said as the people were going down in the water some were screaming Jesus save me and others were cursing his name. Listen to me in the chapel cafeteria choir room and in here there are some of you and disaster is right at the door and it's over. That's right. Over forever. That's it. No way out. And this is the last time you'll ever see that flame flickering. If it's for one person I'm telling you right now get down here and respond in the chapel.

Yes. There's an urgency friend as intense as I've ever felt in this place. Get down you don't have tomorrow. You're gonna be one of those on that ship going down forever. Come in the choir room in the chapel.

If you're here in the balcony still get down. This is God saying there's still a last chance. Yeah friends I watch it and obviously I'm passionate I love the Lord but to get gripped like that you don't just work that up. That was no emotional ploy that was the Holy Spirit pleading through me and I've seen that time and time again in revival.

It gets very intense because eternity becomes real. Revival comes with urgency. Revival is like Judgment Day.

Revival brings upheaval. Listen to what Pastor Shane Eidelman wrote my colleague and friend in California. He said nearly a decade ago I prayed Lord bring revival to the churches but I was not ready for the response that followed.

He said I share the response in the sermon below as often as possible to reach as many people as possible. He said after I prayed it was almost as if God was saying you don't want revival. It will ruin your schedule, your dignity, your image and your reputation as a person who is well balanced. Men will weep throughout the congregation. Women will wail because of the travail of their own souls. Young adults will cry like children at the magnitude of their sin. With the strength of my presence the worship team will cease playing.

Time will seem to stand still. You won't be able to preach because of the emotions flooding your own soul. You'll struggle to find words but only find tears. Even the most dignified and reserved among you will be broken and humbled as little children. The proud and self-righteous will not be able to stand in my presence. The doubter and unbeliever will either run for fear or fall on their knees and worship me.

There can be no middle ground. The church will never be the same again. That's the urgency of revival. That's the cost of revival. That's the reality of revival.

But friends we must have it. God revive us or we die. It's the Line of Fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on the Line of Fire.

866-342. Remember the bottom of the hour. We're going to be joined by biochemist Fuzz Rana. We're going to completely change topics, change direction, change focus. But let me just pause here for another moment on revival. We did a revival focused show on Monday and many of you who've been following me know that our ministry has an emphasis of three R's. Revival, Revolution, Redemption.

What do we mean by those? Well revival, self-evident. Revival in the church.

That a great burden we carry, a great calling in our ministry is to stir renewal, awakening within the body. God's people returning to their first love. God's people turning away from sin and complacency. God's people encountering the Lord afresh and then with that reaching out to a lost and dying world. Revival in the church leading to awakening in the society. And that leads straight into our second R which is revolution, meaning a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution. Not an armed uprising, not rebellion, but rather Jesus transforming his people and we being transformed bring about the transformation of the culture through the gospel. It is God's kingdom pushing back against the kingdom of this world. So revival in the church, gospel-based moral and cultural revolution in society and redemption in Israel.

The salvation of the Jewish people and for me as a Jewish believer but also based on on scripture I see this as the culmination of everything. And with this our heart beats for the Great Commission. So I've had the privilege of traveling outside the US probably a couple hundred times. Had a great time yesterday with my old friend John Cava talking about missions and God's heart for the whole world. And when you get out, when you travel, when you do missions trip, when you spend substantial time. I've spent a few years of my life total overseas and doing ministry. America is important but you see everything differently.

You know what I'm saying? Because you see God's heart for the entire world and his burden for the lost and his care for for the poorest of the poor and individuals that are just outcast and it's an amazing thing to see the Holy Spirit touch people and to see the Great Commission fulfilled and the culmination of this is what? A mighty harvest from the nations. A great harvest from the nations. A multitude that no one can number. The fullness of the Gentiles as Paul describes it in Romans 11 25 and on the heels of this all Israel being saved.

The national conversion of the Jewish people. So that's that's what our heart beats for. But really without revival, without the first or the other two R's won't happen. Without God's people being visited and coming alive the other R's won't happen. And what I want to really encourage you to do is look at your own life and ask God to show you if you've left your first love. Ask God to show you if you become compromised or complacent or cold. Or maybe you've been through hell and back. Maybe you you've suffered terrible loss, physical loss, emotional loss, relational loss, financial loss. You've been through a really difficult difficult time and and you're just you're you're worn out. You're beaten down. You need refreshing.

Or maybe just constant attack and the busyness of life. It's it's robbed you of the joy you used to have. Maybe you went through a difficult church split. Maybe you're really believing God for something things fell through. Either way you're not who you used to be. That old joy, that old intimacy, that old purpose, that old freedom, that old faith.

It's not there. I don't say this to condemn. I say this to say you're ripe for renewal. You're ripe for revival. You say but what do I do? How do I get back?

How do I recover things that I lost? But remember what Jesus says in Revelation 2 speaking to the church in Ephesus. He commends the church for their hard work, for their perseverance, for their doctrinal purity, for exposing those who claim to be apostles and were not. Then he says yet I have this against you. You've left your first love. You've left your first love.

And he says remember the height from which you've fallen. Do the things you did at first. Repent and do the things you did at first. So go before the Lord and reflect back to what you had in him, who you were in him, how you walked with him, what you experienced in him. Maybe the passion you had to reach the lost and to share your testimony or the love you had for prayer or the the sensitivity you had for holiness and let let that burn in you and then do what you did at first.

Here maybe maybe this will will help you. Those of you who are married and over the course of years of marriage things get stale and the weariness of life and challenges of raising kids and making a living and staying on top of things and you realize you know we're kind of neglecting each other. So what do you do? You do what you did at first.

The simple thing. Date night. You clear your schedule. You get babysitters. You do what you need to do and you go out and just have fun. You go to a restaurant that you have good memories of or you go out do things and you just enjoy time together with the two of you.

Then you do it regularly and then as you're involved more and more things doing things together it just that spark is there. It returns. Do what you did at first. Don't allow the enemy of your souls to condemn you. You'll never get back.

It's too late for you. You've fallen too free. You'll always be a shell yourself.

You're just like somebody that's had too many injuries and too many disappointments. You're always dead. No no that's it's either a lie from your own mind or what others tell you or what the enemy Satan wants to tell you. God's mercy is in you every morning and he's the one saying turn back to me and I'll turn back to you. So every day take a step in that direction.

Every day spend more time with them. If you're only praying five minutes pray ten. If you weren't reading the word at all read a chapter. Take a step. Take a step. Then you feel prompted. Hey skip this meal. Then you feel prompted. You know I should turn that off.

I shouldn't be watching it. Just go with it and before you know it there's gonna be fresh fire and fresh desire and maybe you're gonna be prompted to share your faith. You haven't done that in a while and you start to step out. It's like wow I'm feeling renewed. I'm feeling God's presence again. I want to encourage you that he is he is calling you. It's the Holy Spirit prompting you.

If there's a stirring going on there is something fresh from heaven. And friends I believe that all over the earth this is a constant with the Lord based on 2nd Chronicles 16 9. In fact can I quote it to you in Hebrew? I love quoting it in Hebrew.

It's kind of an interesting syntax. It says kia donai for the Lord enav m'shot t'ot p'chol ha'aretz. His eyes are going back and forth through the whole earth. So he's looking. He's looking.

It's literally a back and forth. That's what the Hebrew is. Enav m'shot t'ot p'chol ha'aretz.

His eyes are going back back and forth to and fro throughout the whole earth. L'hit chazak im levavam shalem elav. That he may stand in strong support of those whose hearts are wholly his.

Did you hear that word shalem? It's related to shalom. It has to do here not with peace but wholeness, wholehearted devotion. And what does he do for those people?

He stands in strong support. That Hebrew verb is is also used when Gabriel is helped by Michael the Archangel in in Daniel the 10th chapter bringing a message to him but he's he's resisted by the Prince of Persia and then Michael comes and supports him and he's able to prevail and deliver the message. Yeah so God is looking for people that he can back. God is looking not for your performance. Yes spending quality time with God is important but he's not standing there we've got like six seven billion stopwatches in heaven and there's t'ot prayed three and a half minute and prayed six minute writ no no he's not looking at performance he's looking at the heart and and you may say you don't understand it was COVID now all the kids are home they're home all day and and I got two little ones under four and now I got a supervised at school of the older three that are seven to eleven and then there's dinner and meals and cleaning up and laundry and I don't by the time everybody falls asleep I'm out yeah that's understandable very challenging but what about your heart what about your heart well you're doing what you're doing have you ever have you ever been worried about something and no matter what you're doing no matter what you're working on you feel you feel worried you feel that that anxiety or you're excited about something and whatever you're doing during the day you're thinking about that or you're depressed about something or whatever you doing during the day you feel that boredom ball how about having a hunger for God how about over the course of the day just a prayer Oh God Oh God he sees that he sees that and then as he sees that hunger he'll give opportunities he'll provide support so that you're able to to meet with him and then what about having worship music on or you know Nancy found when the when the kids were little and there was just a busyness in the course of the day and while one's napping the others running around and and she realized okay the the room of the house that I'm passing through the most in the course of the day as a kitchen is the kitchen so I'm just gonna leave the Bible open in the kitchen and whatever you know whenever there's a free minute I'm just stand there and read scripture and take in a little more of the word and it began to have an impact wherever you are you're driving to work you're driving alone you don't listen you don't need to catch up with the news or the sports reporter about worshiping God about listening to the word in those wherever you are take steps to go after God and then pastors call your people to pray for revival put a vision of revival before them stir their hearts read more about revival read about the history of revival see what God has done in past awakenings and think okay what about my church what about my congregation what about my region does God want to pour out of spirit yes he does this God want to heal America's wounds the wounds of the nation wherever you're watching or listening yes he does then to our faces crying out Oh God visit us if it's time of wrath Lord in wrath remember mercy all right we'll be right back with fuzz Rana don't go anywhere Oh cleansing flame it's the line of fire with your host dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling eight six six three four truth here again is dr. Michael Brown what what if we could have some kind of attachment in our brains that could well enables enable us to do things we normally couldn't do what if it could be used to make up for certain deficiencies and disabilities what if we could enhance our mental capabilities or are these the kind of things we don't want to mess with this is Michael Brown this is the line of fire and I am joined now by my friend dr. fuzz Rana with reasons to believe he is a PhD in chemistry focuses on biochemistry and when we got a contact from reasons to believe saying would you like to have fuzz on to talk about the subjects I said are you kidding me of course so fuzz great to have you back on the line of fire yeah way too long it was it was memorable to be down with your whole team years back and and see the great organization you have and then of course you and colleagues that have been on many times over the years yeah but it's been it's been way too long so first how are things going in your world these days you know they're going really well you know in spite of the upheaval that this last year is represented you know I feel very blessed and are in reasons to believe is been thriving under these difficult circumstances so I have no no complaints whatsoever nothing but gratitude yeah and and are you seeing that people have more uncertainty and more questions because of kovatin and so much uncertainty in the society around us have you found people reaching out more for answers yes yes indeed and you know also see more and more people really turning to science as really almost a place of hope you know and I you know I see a lot of things on social media claims like look I believe in science and so science is beginning to almost develop this this mystical this mystical sense you know people are developing a techno safe of sorts because of I think the pandemic and the idea that maybe science is a way to to rescue us yeah the thing that's interesting of course is you could almost come to the opposite conclusion because of you know mixed signals and what are we supposed to do and what works and doesn't work and it's a vaccine safe or not you know it it could either get you looking at science or questioning science but either way you folks are person perfectly positioned to say hey what we want is truth and and we're scientists but we want truth and all truth is found in God so for those who don't know who Elon Musk is let's just give the super quick intro and then what in the world is this neuro link that he's talking about yeah well you know Elon Musk is perhaps one of the richest people in the world he's a technologist futurist of sort and if you're not familiar with Elon Musk you probably heard of Tesla or SpaceX these are Elon Musk companies and he's a the type of person that wants to shape the future through science and technological advance and recently he's founded a company called neuro link with the idea of commercializing what are called neural implants or sometimes brain computer interfaces where he sees these neural implants as really being the next generation of interface between the human user and electronic devices so just as we're comfortable now using Alexa or Siri to give voice commands to electronic devices Elon Musk envisions these neural implants will allow us control electronic devices just simply with our thoughts hmm so when you first hear that does that strike you is what a wonderful use of technology and another incredible development that could help many people or does that concern you about us trying to overstep our bounds you know that's a great question and there's really unfortunately not a simple answer you know for the most part when I look at the work that's being done in brain computer interface technology I'm actually very excited about it because a lot of the work is really biomedical and orientation that the goal of hey if we could treat people that are locked in here because of a stroke or a brain injury and they can't communicate you know or we could help people that are amputees gain control of robotic prosthetic limbs you know through their through their thoughts they can control these limbs and things like that what what wonderful wonderful advances but what Elon Musk is doing is looking at actually creating these neural implants for really technology purposes that these implants would augment us as human beings and give us capacities that we don't naturally have and that now it creates discomfort in me where he's looking at using these devices really as enhancements as opposed to really something that's designed to treat people suffering from you know horrendous diseases or debilitating injury right so again with so much technology there's good and then there are lines that get crossed right so you know there there's technology that extends human life but then we can just extend life so it's not even life anymore and then we have questions about when the death occurs and and questions that never would have come up if not for some of our of our good technology so from what you understand from Elon Musk in his worldview where does he want to go with this what's what's the outer limit of what he could be proposing well you know Elon Musk is again a fascinating person because with his company's Tesla and SpaceX where he's looking at you know revolutionizing the automotive industry where he's looking at trying to commercialize spaceflight maybe even colonize Mars he has a real optimistic outlook on what technology could do for the future but with Neuralink it's almost a pessimism that that is motivating the work there and sure the technology would have biomedical uses and again could be used you know for creating a human machine interface but for Elon Musk he actually sees an existential imperative to developing this technology because he's afraid that the artificial intelligence systems that we're developing in the near future will actually become autonomous systems and when that happens and when they begin to operate on their own according to Musk suddenly humanity is in jeopardy that that these machines could subjugate us they could actually maybe even drive humanity to extinction and so he argues that unless we develop these neural implants and provide the means to interface our brains with computer systems to augment our intellectual capability we're never going to be able to compete with AI systems and we become vulnerable so he actually sees the development of these neural implants as critical for our survival as a species because of his fear of artificial intelligence all right got it so so this is not just a matter of someone that's blind perhaps able to see or deaf able to hear or paralyzed able to use limbs and it even goes beyond well here you could learn a language instantly just having it downloaded to your brain this is our answer so we need technology to fight technology so let's step back and ask this larger question are you concerned about the potential power of AI and where you go is it just science fiction writers and movies that talk about this or are there reasons for us to be concerned about artificial intelligence taking over the world you know I actually think there is some reason to be concerned about this and again you know AI like other all other technology can be used for enormous amount of good but again it can be also used for misuse you know for you know nefarious purposes but also there's just simply unintended consequences many times with technology and the more powerful the technology sometimes the more devastating the unintended consequences and so I am actually very concerned but it's but I would never go on record as saying that we shouldn't explore advances in artificial intelligence because of the real benefits that this technology could provide for us we just have to go into this into this the technology development with our eyes wide open I think and really be thoughtful about what we should do and what we shouldn't do and if we do decide to do something what are the parameters that we're going to put in place to ensure the highest use of the technology without again it being misused or suffering again from just something that surprises us that takes us you know a back that we never anticipated would be a negative consequence and is this like discussion about cloning and that it's unethical to think of human clothing whether it's possible or not is another issue and what about a human soul and where does that come in but is this the same kind of thing that you have to put guidelines on technology for the purposes of of not destroying the human race yes I think so I think that's exactly exactly it you know and this is where the Christian worldview I think becomes so really powerful because I've not seen a system of secular ethics that really actually can effectively guide our deliberations with a lot of this emerging technology but with Christianity you've got this beautiful complement where that the Christian worldview encourages science that encourages the development of technology to mitigate pain and suffering to promote human flourishing but at the same time it recognizes the value of every human life and would put in place again safeguards to protect even those people that are the most marginalized the most vulnerable in our world to ensure that they get equitable access to the technologies and that they're not exploited you know or left behind in the process of developing these technologies so to me the Christian worldview has a lot to say and of course as Christians we also recognize that that human beings are sinful and that that's the impact of sin can can pervert in you know pervert even the best the best ideas the best technology got it and and I want to ask a larger question about about science technology human effort and God and where this all fits together but 45 seconds if you could talk to Elon Musk what would you want to convey to him I think I would say to him in a nutshell you know technology is a wonderful thing it can improve the quality of our lives but it can never save us you know and if you really are looking for the salvation your salvation and the salvation of humanity that has to be you have to search for the person to the person of Christ it's only a pain through the person of Christ not through what we can create by our own hands yeah and the ultimate message especially for those that are thinking about saving the human race there's only one Savior hey friends visit reasons org for all ages for skeptics for seekers for those with difficult questions you'll find it to be a phenomenally rich and very accessible website about science and faith reasons dot org all right we'll be right back with dr. Fuzz Rana it's the line of fire with your host activist author international speaker and theologian dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling eight six six three four truth here again is dr. Michael Brown I'm speaking with biochemist dr. Fuzz Rana he is one of the researchers and contributors to reasons to believe go to reasons dot org with your scientific questions that relate to Scripture you may have heard about some new discovery or something going on in the world of science or this allegedly disproves the Bible or they'll be dealing with it they they constantly post new articles videos great resource of information for the body of Christ there fuzz in in Genesis the 11th chapter we read about the Tower of Babel and God deals with human arrogance safe we can do this we can do anything and there is an aspect of human beings wanting to push God out of the picture and think they can save the world on their own so of course God's going to thwart that and will fail in our efforts but sometimes we get so skeptical as Christians of the scientific world that that we can we can kind of step back and question everything what's a healthy mentality to have towards the world of science and the great accomplishments of the world of science including the medical world and yet recognizing human limitations in the midst of it yeah that's that's really the challenge you know is recognizing that first of all I think science really is a gift that God has given to us you know that that allows us to unleash the Providence that he has built into the created order so that we can as we understand the world around us we can take advantage of that understanding to really you know again mitigate pain and suffering to promote human flourishing and so it allows us to unleash and unlock the good that is within the creation you know unfortunately science today has become largely an atheistic enterprise because it's shaped by this this view called methodological naturalism which is a $25 word that just simply means that when you engage in science you pretend as if God doesn't exist and you only speak after mechanistic explanation well the net effect of that is that that it then prevents you from explaining certain features in nature as being the handiwork of a creator and so instead of seeing God's handiwork in the world around us all you see is mechanism and that many times I think causes people to embrace an atheistic worldview because of the credibility in the respect that science has in our world today where science operates if God is not necessary and so as a consequence many people think that science really undermines belief in God when in fact you know it's it's the opposite so recognizing that that again worldview plays a key role is very important in terms of how we view scientific discoveries but but then on the other hand the technology we develop to again I think is a is a reflection of the fact that we bear God's image and I think when we develop technology it brings glory to God for the simple reason we're we're exercising manifesting the image of God but when I go look at the Tower of Babel you know I see here is not so much people you know trying to play God that's the issue it's people trying to take God's place so I'm perfectly fine with Christian playing God because we have no choice we can bear God's image but if we're trying to take God's place through the gifts that God has given us that is when I think things can go sideways and again this is why the Christian voice in our culture becomes really so important because it puts a break on this atheistic framework that really undergirds a lot of science and technology today and with that I think our consequences that really can be instead of being beneficial to humanity become a devastating to humanity yeah really and then with everything again that human beings do there are limitations because of the fall and futility of the human race is there any technology that is envisioned that could that could save us from death well you know that's the hope of people like Elon Musk is that you know if we could modify our biological makeup you know through gene editing or brain computer interface technologies melding our biological makeup with machines or maybe we could discover anti-aging technology that could extend life expectancy the hope is that we could attain at least minimally a practical immortality and and so this is really an idea that is becoming increasingly prominent in the Academy as well as I think in culture at large and you know in other words people are really looking for salvation but they're looking for salvation through what science and technology can offer as opposed to the person of Christ yeah and of course that's that's always gonna fall short it's always gonna fall short that the gospel is going to be relevant until the last human breath before Jesus returns the the message of the cross is going to be relevant and in fact the more the world tries to become secular without God the more there's there's a massive hole because we are created in his image and fuzz it's so important that people like you were doing what you're doing because it's easy to be intimidated by science kids in college and university are bombarded and and and our views are ridiculed and and we're all painted as fools and obscurantist and things so it's it's it's important to know that there are people PhDs and chemistry and biology and and geology and astronomy that are solid Bible believers that are pointing people to Jesus and and ultimately I I would expect and you know I'm not a scientist but I would expect the more we learn the more impossible it's going to be to deny the existence of God the Creator that's been my experience you know I've been doing this for a number of years now and year after year after year I think the scientific case for a creator is just becoming stronger and stronger and you know if we just are able to look at these scientific discoveries through the biblical lens we receive God's handiwork everywhere we look every all around us yeah and you know just what I've learned even just focusing on something like DNA or you're just trying to come at something in a rational way with no presupposition if you think how could someone argue against the existence of God or the against the existence of a designer and you've got just looking at summary of your books who is who is Adam creating life in the lab the cells divine humans 2.0 I mean just just focusing on the cell it would seem that anyone looking at this rationally would have to say okay this has been designed in an intentional way this couldn't just happen maybe just take a minute to tell us about one or two of these books well we still have you with us yeah sure thing well in just to your point Michael I was an agnostic when I started graduate school studying biochemistry and within within a year's time I had not only came to the conviction that there must be a mind because of the elegance and the sophistication of the cell but I converted to Christianity because I felt as if it was the God of the Bible was the mind that I discovered you know inside the cell or is being responsible for producing the cell but you know for me one of the really cool discoveries in biochemistry is again relating to DNA but the cells machinery that manipulates DNA and DNA is an information storage molecule but the cells machinery that manipulates DNA is literally operating like a computer system it's so much so that there are now nanotechnologists that are building computers out of DNA and the the machinery in the cell that manipulates DNA this is called DNA computing and these computers are what computers that are held and these really tiny test tubes that are more powerful than the most powerful supercomputer system and so you know nobody in their right mind would think of a computer system as being assembled through unguided evolutionary processes it took brilliant minds to assemble computer systems and when we look at the fact that these computer systems are literally an operation inside the cell the only explanation to me is that there's a mind behind it all yeah and again it just it just seems like the only logical rational explanation what wasn't it Fred Hoyle his famous analogy of you know to get the universe we have it of the world we have it would be like a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and once it blows through it's built a 747 you know something like that yeah and interestingly enough he was no friend to the Christian faith whatsoever yeah yeah well in front of oil also discovered some of the first evidence for the fine-tuning of his response was it as if a super intellect has monkeyed with with physics as well as with chemistry and biology and yet so he you know still you know held to a non Christian worldview yeah I was I was once talking to a law professor while flying and he said he's a devout atheist and I said sir I said with all respect I believe that I said because it takes a whole lot more faith to be an atheist than to believe but I mean he was he was real forthright with me so I thought I could be with him but fuzz we appreciate what you're doing anything you want our listeners to know about your website anything going on of special importance you know I would just say look if you if you have questions about how science fits with the Christian faith I would just encourage you to visit our website reasons org we have a ton of resources that are available to people at no cost that can help them navigate you know the complexities of the science space dialogue and by doing so I think you're going to walk away with your faith encouraged yeah and just to hear of your own salvation story how remarkable so friends check it out reasons org if you're looking for dr. Rana's books his first name f a z a l e better known as fuzz and then Rana r a n a so check out some of his books check out the website reasons org and thanks for joining us and enlighten us we will always appreciate it another program powered by the truth Network