How to Transform America

How about we take our focus off the elections for a moment and ask, what's God's best way to see America change? What's God's best way to see America? What's God's best way to see America? What's God's best way to see to see America change? What's God's best way to see America change? How do we make practical headway? How do we take positive steps to transform America? Let me bring you back to Ronald Reagan's final speech as he's about to leave the White House after eight years serving. And he goes back to an early Puritan vision about America being a city on a hill. Listen to what Reagan said. Do we have it?

Do we have it? An early freedom man. He journeyed here on what today we call a little wooden boat.

And like the other pilgrims, he was looking for a home that would be free. I've spoken of a shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind, it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace. A city with pre-ports that hung with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors, and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it and see it still. And how stands the city on this winter night?

More prosperous, more secure, and happier than it was eight years ago. But more than that, after 200 years, two centuries, she still stands strong and true on the granite ridge. And her glow is held steady, no matter what storm. And she's still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom. For all the pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness toward home. We've done our part, and as I walk off into the city streets, a final word to the men and women of the Reagan Revolution. The men and women across America, who for eight years did the work that brought America back. My friends, we did it.

We weren't just marking time, we made a difference. We made the city stronger, we made the city free, and we left it in good hands. All in all, not bad.

Not bad at all. And so, goodbye, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America. So, seeing the clip, hearing the clip reminds me of what an amazing communicator Ronald Reagan was.

Really incredible. And the certain sense of stability and strength that he brought, and how proud we were of him when he said, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall, the Berlin Wall, I mean, tremendous courage to do these kinds of things. And much good happened during his eight years as president. On the flip side, we were aborting about a million and a half babies all eight years he was president. Didn't the abortion rate even go up, ultimately? Despite all the good pro-life work that he did, there were still plenty of other issues, sins, problems within America, many of which we were exporting around the world. In other words, America as a nation was not a city set on a hill.

It was positive in many ways. But the vision of some of the original Puritans was very much theocratic. In other words, these would be Christian colonies with Christian values enforced.

I mean, in some colonies, there were penalties for not attending church. I do not want to see a government that requires religious practice or anything like that. When Jesus returns, when he sets up his kingdom, then we'll have a theocracy.

Until then, I don't want any part of one. So as well intentioned as the Christian leaders may have been, the pilgrims and others, that in reality, especially as a nation becomes more diverse, you cannot have a theocracy without bringing great harm. Just look what happens in countries like Iran. Of course, it's Islam versus Christianity.

I understand. But to say that we're a city set on a hill, there is a real, real mixture. There is a real, real good side to America, mixed side and bad side. And that's just the way it is with hundreds of millions of people. Now, Ronald Reagan also did this, a very short clip, but a famous clip from Reagan about being a nation under God.

And it's absolutely true and right in terms of what he said. And without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure. If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under. Yeah, the famous line, if we forget that we're one nation under God or a nation under God, then we'll be a nation gone under. Well, yeah, every nation ultimately to the extent it is God-fearing and looks to him, Proverbs 14, 34, the universal principle, righteousness exalts a nation, sin is our approach to any people.

That's going to be a reality. But the idea that America was a completely Christian nation at any point in history, or that America can be equated directly with the gospel, that's a big mistake. Now, I want to read something to you from General Michael Flynn. Just pardon General Michael Flynn.

It's published in the Western Journal, which is an extremely conservative outlet. He said, the headline, we're in a battle of good versus evil. It's time for God-fearing Americans to fight. And he says this, the battle we're engaged in cannot be fought with only human weapons.

It requires the intervention of God because in a war against the forces of evil, only the Lord can obtain the victory. And as American citizens, we must refuse to go to the funeral of our own independence. We, the people, are proud to proclaim that the United States of America is one nation under God. In this public profession of faith, we recognize his Lordship over our country, and we proudly stand beneath the banner of Christ and our flag in which millions have sacrificed their very lives for. In scripture, though, the strength and commitment of Matthew, the Lord said, through the strength and commitment of Matthew, the Lord said, whoever is not with me is not against me.

Now, he goes on, talking about the tyrants who want to rule us and steal the election from us and so on, want to subdue criticism, outlaw those who did not submit unconditionally to the dictatorship of the new world order. But notice again, he says, as one nation under God, we recognize his Lordship over our country, and we proudly stand beneath the banner of Christ and our flag in which millions have sacrificed their very lives for. That, to me, is unhealthy Christian nationalism. That, to me, is equating our flag with the banner of Christ. That's the very thing that is dangerous and that I don't agree with. And, of course, if you talk to our black American friends and our Native American friends, they're scratching their heads saying, and you think we've been under the banner of Christ our entire history and living as a Christian nation in a city set on a hill?

Really? So, friends, let us, the believers, the church, the people of God, let us be the ones responsible for bringing about change to the nation as a whole, rather than looking for it to happen from the top down. We'll be right back. I am about to play some very edifying clips for you and share some very encouraging stories about transformation.

But here's the short version. If you're changed, people around you will be changed. Not all, but many. If you're transformed, people around you will be transformed.

Not all, but many. And often as the Gospel goes to new areas, one individual comes to faith. Next thing, the rest of their family comes to faith. Then the next thing, a bunch of their friends come to faith and then co-workers come to faith.

I mean, think of it. Some of us, when we got born again, the first year or two, we led other family members to the Lord. We led other friends to the Lord. We shared the Gospel widely. People saw the change in our lives and said, what happened to you?

I remember there was a young man visiting us from Israel. And he was raised in the faith but was spiritually up and down and up and down and up and down for many years. And he was visiting us in Pensacola during the Brownsboro Revival. And he went into a convenience store. And this is when he was not doing well. And he was, you know, he was struggling and you could see it in his eyes.

He just was not in a good place. And when he got down, he got down. And when he was up, he was up. And he went to the convenience store. And I forget what he was getting, but he was who he was. A couple days later, he walked in there after encountering God in the revival. And he walked in and the gal behind the counter said, what happened to you?

Because he was a tall guy, kind of striking, so she remembered him from a few days earlier. Then he came in, he just looked different. Well, the people around you, the people who know you, people who work with you, live with you. When there's real transformation, something happens. Some will reject you because of it, but others, they themselves will be changed. It happens when we come to faith in the first place. It happens when we get born again in the first place. And it happens also when we are changed as believers.

When we get revived and the fire falls in our lives. So, I want to share some things with you. First, we'll go to the phones, and we'll start in Jackson, Mississippi. Jonathan, welcome to the Line of Fire. Shalom, Dr. Brown.

Shalom. Yeah, on this topic, I've actually got a direct line to the Mayflower people. My great-something grandfather was John Alden. And I've read the Mayflower Compact, and history was my greatest subject in school. And I know the Judeo-Christian values that this country was founded on. But you know, there is no political solution to what we are facing.

There's only a third-grade awakening that's going to solve our problems. And you know, there's a line in a Bob Dylan song that says, And I consider myself a major patriot, but many of us Christians think that our country is somehow better than the rest of the countries in the world, and that God loves us more, or whatever, and that's not true. We live in a kingdom, not a country. Our allegiance is to Jesus Christ, not the American government. Jonathan, if we say things like this, that our first allegiance is to the Lord, and to the cross, not to the American government, then we're saying it rightly. We do have an allegiance to our country, and you said you're a patriot, and we're told to give honor where honor is due, and to submit to authorities and pay taxes, etc. But our highest allegiance, our ultimate allegiance, of course, is to the Lord.

And when our country tells us to go in a different direction than the gospel, we say, with all respect, we have to obey God. But the other point you make, sir, which is so important, this is a big world out there. And when you look at the population of America, and compare it, say, to the population of India, we're less than one-third the size of India, in terms of population, less than one-third the size of China's population. If you look at Indonesia, Indonesia is maybe two-thirds as big as we are. I mean, most Americans wouldn't even think of a country like that.

The point is, it's a big world out there, and Jesus died for that whole world. And I believe the fate of America is important because we do have a lot of influence. I mean, we're incredibly influential and have done much good in the world. You know, World War I and World War II and different things we've done and helped the world with breakthroughs and discoveries and humanitarian aid.

But it's a real mix. As I've been out of the country about 200 times and been to many nations, I see a lot of bad that we've exported and wrong things we've done. And when you go to other nations, you get God's heart for the other nations as well. So yeah, America's important because it's 330 million people. America's important because God's used America in many positive ways. America's important because it has tremendous influence.

But America's just one nation on the planet. And it's one of the best things we can do is go overseas, go on a missions trip to another country and serve there and get a heart for the rest of the world, and then it puts things here in perspective. So thank you, sir, and glad to speak to a descendant of one of the original pilgrims.

All right. So the other night, I was looking for some documents in my computer and going through some random files, and I spotted correspondence I had with a large church in England. Some of their leaders had visited the Brownsville Revival in the late 90s, and they sent me a series of follow up questions.

So I was responding to their questions. And I came across a testimony that I had completely forgotten about. And I mean, there are endless such testimonies because so much happened. I remember when I got there and God called me to be part of the leadership team in mid-96, and we talked about, yeah, maybe I could chronicle what's going on and keep track of testimonies.

That probably ended after about a week. It's like, right, how are you going to do that? Here comes a flood, a tsunami of blessing and testimony and glory, and you're going to chronicle that?

You're going to get all the notes and the details of what happened? It was just staggering. And I don't believe the true story will be told until eternity to find out how lives were touched and what the ripple effect was of these lives being touched. But there was a lot of rejoicing, a lot of celebration, a lot of joy, an incredible spirit of joy, because Jesus was setting people free. And we were encountering him. Let me just give you a feel of some of the joy of the worship that took place at the Brownsboro Hotel.

Come on, you sing with me, everybody. So little celebration, singing, worship, great joy that was in the place. But the great joy followed on the heels of the preaching of repentance. The great joy, the great joy followed on the heels of people getting right with God.

It wasn't just ha, ha, ha, happy, happy, happy. In fact, Steve Hill, evangelist preaching every night at the Brownsboro Revival for years, addressed this head on. And little snippet of a message as he's about to give an altar call, listen to what he had to say about the superficial gospel message. Why do thousands of teenagers come to this revival? They know better. They're not fools, friend. They know there's more out there than that love gospel. They know there's also a God out there of wrath.

There's a God out there who does it, weak at everything they do wrong. I got a letter today from a lady whose husband is a leader in a local church, leading the church. She said she can't stand it anymore. She said we go home and he watches hardcore pornography. She said God's not in our home, but he's leading the church. He's in charge of groups in the church. He's a leader in the church.

But I know the man. And she said he came to your revival. And he got upset. He got mad. And he left.

I got just a letter we got today. He got mad and left the church. Why? Maybe, friend, for the first time in his life, the conviction of the Holy Ghost got a hold of him. And the Lord shone a light on his heart and said, son, it doesn't work like this.

It never has and never will. Without holiness, no man will see the Lord. Yeah, that was preached night in, night out, night in, night out. Hey, we apologize. I'm not sure why some audio problems are taking place, but we won't play any more clips the rest of the show. For those that are having a problem, if it's on Internet or all over, we apologize for that.

We will get to the root of the problem and fix it. But a strong message of repentance was preached night in, night out. People came and they were transformed. And then as a result of that, when they would go back out into their communities, when they'd go back to their families, go back to their schools, others were touched, others were transformed. And maybe a few months later, they'd be bringing them to the service. Maybe a few months later, some of their friends would be getting baptized.

The ripple effect was amazing. Friend, if America's really going to be changed, if America's really going to be transformed, this is how it's going to happen. You get changed and the people around you get changed through the power of the Gospel. This is the key. From there, it works its way out into every other area of society.

Give us strength to always do what's right. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Did you have a radical conversion experience? Maybe you weren't raised in the faith.

I wasn't. At a certain point in your life you met the Lord and you were changed and people thought and looked and said, what happened to you? Maybe you were raised in the faith and you fell away and then really came to know the Lord later and people saw the change.

Or maybe you were kind of a lukewarm believer and just went to church on Sunday because you kind of had to with your family and believed it was true, but you certainly weren't living as a disciple. And then you go to a place where God's moving, an outpouring revival taking place, and you're transformed and everyone's like, what happened to you? And then they come under conviction and they start to look at their own lives and they become open to the Gospel and it has this ripple effect, this snowball effect. And before you know it, the workplace can be changed, the family can be changed, the block where you live can be changed, your congregation can be changed.

This is a cycle of renewal. And again, a key is new souls, people hearing the Gospel, people being saved for the first time. I have friends with church planting networks around the world, but in America use the same method. They go share the Gospel in a community, go into a neighborhood, apartment building, complex, whatever. They share the Gospel, someone comes to faith, and then they see, can we hold the Bible study in your home now?

If they're able to do that, then they do it, and now you have other family members coming to faith and now, well, why don't you invite your neighbor from the other apartments to come and then get that person solid. Now, give them that little house church to lead once they're established and solid, and now let's spread out a network of those to the apartment building to say, well, your neighbor got saved, what about your neighbor's family? This is the ultimate way that America is going to be changed. And then, then we infiltrate with truth and love and righteousness every area of society. We get involved more in the school systems. More of our folks are teachers or administrators. We get involved as college professors. We get involved in the legislative system.

We get involved, this one's raised up to be a political leader, and this one's going to work especially with programs to help the poor, and this is how transformation comes, and then we vote accordingly, and then the government leaders are changed. So let me give you an example from something that happened in Brownsville during the Browns revival in Pensacola, which lasted basically from 95 to 2,000, and the fruit of it continues around the world to this day. And interestingly, we found in recent survey of those who were for the first time connecting with our ministry, as well as with a little Twitter poll, that of the three R's of our ministry, the three emphases that we have, revival, revolution, redemption, revival in the church, gospel-based moral and cultural revolution in society, and redemption in Israel, seeing the Jewish people saved, that the number one R that people contact us with about or relate to us about is actually revival. Some it's equally all three, and others it's the moral cultural revolution, others it's redemption in Israel. But the number one is revival. And in a certain sense, without that, you don't have the other two. That without real revival, and God's people alive and thriving and on fire and burning bright, that you won't have a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution.

In fact, you can't. And that you will not see Israel saved because Israel comes to faith in the heels of the fullness of the Gentiles coming in. So it's actually good to see that that's a key area where people relate to us. So let me give you a first-hand testimony. And if you have a testimony in your own life, that when God saved you and God changed you, it had an effect on the people around you.

Or when you were revived as a believer, it had a dramatic effect on the people around you. Give us a call 866-344-866-348-7884. And if you are not connected with us, if you don't get our emails, which give you a summary of all the videos we put out every week, all the articles we put out every week dealing with key issues in the world around us, and then special resources we put together for you, then take a moment, go to AskDrBrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, and sign up to get our emails. You get a free e-book when you sign up.

And then some really neat information that I think you'll really enjoy reading in the days that follow. That's AskDrBrown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. Okay, so here's a testimony I discovered.

It was from, I think, September of 99. I was responding to questions from Pastor Collins Church in London, Kensington Temple, one of the leading churches in the UK for many years. And they had visited Revival, were greatly touched. Now we're back in England and we're asking me follow-up questions.

And I discovered this testimony. They asked, well, what kind of impact has it had on the community there? What kind of impact has it had on Pensacola? Now on the one hand, life went on as always. People lived their lives. You had hypocritical Christians. You had non-believers.

You had compromised Christians. You still had strip clubs open. You still had bars open. You still had people getting drunk. You had kids doing drugs.

On the one hand, life went on the same as always. On the other hand, so many people did come to faith that there was great change. The administrator of schools in the county told me the change he saw firsthand in the high schools.

He was the principal of one of the high schools. He told us about the change he saw firsthand. The sheriff came and told Pastor John Kilpatrick one year into the revival. He said, hey, we just had a reduction in youth crime in the county by 13%. He said, I think it's good for that revival.

I can't prove it. I'm simply saying that he did tell that to the pastor. And that was his read on what had happened. Because so many young people had come to faith and were living differently. Believers were now living serious lives. And anywhere you went in the town, you could talk to people in the city. And they all knew about revival. And most of them knew someone who had been touched in the revival. So it was quite extraordinary in that regard. So here's this testimony.

I'd completely forgotten it. Like I said, along with countless hundreds, thousands of others. But we had one of our students was doing prison ministry. So he's visiting a local prison, sharing the gospel, and he meets a young man, passionate follower of Jesus, excited about the Lord. But in prison right now, what happened?

This young man was on a beach getting drunk with his friends. And because they live in Pensacola and because the revival's big news there. And again, you've got a city, what, of maybe a hundred thousand people then. And you had three and a half million cumulative attendance over a period of years.

People coming in from 140 nations. You knew about it. You stayed in any hotel in the area right there at the desk. There were maps to the church. When you went to rent a car, Brownsville was a tiny little community within Pensacola. You go to rent a car and Brownsville is big on the, when you went into the state of Florida and you stopped at one of those, you know, visitor's booths or visitor's buildings. And you had like a map of Florida.

If you had one that that showed you the panhandle and where Pensacola was, Pensacola was in small print and Brownsville, this little neighborhood within Pensacola didn't even have his own zip code, was large print. Yeah, that was that was the reality. So they're on the beach drinking. OK. And mocking the revival when this guy says, you know, I think I need to go.

I think I need to go to service there. Where's the church? So his friends told them where the building was. The next night he shows up and gets radically saved. But the problem is he's been running from a six month prison sentence.

So he goes to the local police two days later and turns himself in. And that's why our student met him in prison, because he had turned himself in having been changed. I wonder how many lives he impacted.

I wonder how many were touched. I was reading the testimony of another young man, not a young man now. He was 17 when he came to revival in 96. So in his 40s, now married with five kids, kids that are married that he has. So he came 17 years old, gun toting, drug using, often depressed, struggling with suicide, young person. He gets radically, dramatically born again.

This happens in the summer when he goes back to school. I believe 27 of his friends get saved that year because of the change in his life. I posted this on Facebook, just again reminded of it and wanted to share it. And I was looking at some of the comments. Georgia said I was there more than once and it was real for sure. Shannon went to revival.

It was good, but the long time effects of it is what helped me to know the authenticity of what it was, the real deal. Another said this. I attended services back during the revival. They were so powerful. I lived in Mobile, Alabama, then was blessed to attend the revival meetings countless times. So, you know, people are saying I was there, had an impact. But what's interesting, what's interesting is that people say, hey, my life was changed forever.

Look at this. I was fortunate to attend it several times and it's changed my life forever. I remember the restaurants in the city would stay open late just to serve those after the services were over, usually well after midnight. The manifestation of God's presence was visibly seen and felt in all the restaurants and crime in the area was way down and almost nonexistent.

Amazing. It causes my spirit to cry out more and more. I would say it's an overstatement to say that that crime universally was way down, almost nonexistent. But do you remember what the sheriff told us about what he saw with his own eyes and attributed it to the revival? Another says I was one of those greatly impacted by that revival. When you truly seek God from what he has for you, he will not disappoint you. I was seeking and came away with a ministry gift of intercession, hasn't left and I pray it never does.

Love the Lord in honor to do something for him. You're talking about over 20 years ago, someone goes, is touched, impacted and says I've been changed ever since. And then read one quote here where people, someone said, hey, I live in Pensacola.

I live here and I still talk to people about the revival and the impact it had. That's just one instance of God moving. What happens when you have pockets of this happening all over America? What happens when there's an outpouring in your city, in your community, in your large church, in your small church, in your house group, in your Bible study, in your early morning prayer group, men's prayer, ladies prayer. What happens is you get ignited.

What happens is you get impacted. Now you want to share the good news with everybody. You just got to tell this one and tell that one and tell this one and tell that one.

You are so excited. Want to share the news with everybody. Before you know it, neighbors are getting saved. Family members are coming to faith. People are getting changed because they're not comfortable living the way they used to live with a holy wife or a holy husband or a holy mom or a holy dad. Or what we'd often see in Brownsville is parents would want their kids to get right with God because the kids were partying or into gangs or doing drugs or sleeping around. And the parents were Christians. The kids would get radically converted and then the parents would be changed because the parents were nominal Christians.

And when their kids got really born again, they got born again. You want to transform America? This is where it starts. This is where it starts.

This is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire today. 866-3-4-TRUTH.

That is the number to call. Again, I'm encouraging you to really press into the Lord personally, to be renewed in your own life, and then to share the Gospel, to bring the message of Jesus to others. You say, I'm shy.

It's kind of hard. It's a place with many, and the Gospel just has a certain level of opposition it brings. So say, Lord, be strong out of my weakness. Lord, out of my fear, may your strength come. And then recognize that in Jesus, you don't have a spirit of fear or timidity. In Him, you're an overcomer. The more you step out, the more you get in the habit of looking for people to reach and share the truth with, the more it will become a lifestyle. And that, again, is the key. That's the greatest thing that we can do.

Transformation in America will not come from the top down, but from the bottom up, and then we get involved in every area of life. 866-3-4-TRUTH. Hey, friends, for all those who are watching live today, just want to let you know that 25 minutes from now, we'll be back on YouTube doing our weekly exclusive Q&A chat. Any question you have of any kind, on any subject, we'll be taking on the Ask Dr. Brown YouTube channel. Okay, we go to the phones, and let's start in Los Angeles with Anne. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you.

I'm in a discussion group, and somebody asked this question, and I thought you would be a good person to ask it for me to ask about it. So it's 2 Kings 5, where Elisha heals Naaman, and then Naaman says, you know, another thing I want to ask you is, may Adonai pardon your servant when my master goes into the house of Ramon to worship there, leaning on my hand. And I bow down, too, because he's leaning on my hand. And this person said, you know, how does that relate to us as believers?

Maybe we're in a situation, an employment situation, where somebody says that we have to, you know, say that we're on board with something that God says is against his will. And then, apparently, somebody found that that was a past tense. Like, in other words, may Adonai pardon me for when I used to do that. And I don't see any place that makes it look like a past tense, and I don't know Hebrew that well, so can you clarify that for me?

Yeah. Your reading of it, initially, is the way that I've always read it and understand it. That he was saying, hey, look, this is my situation. You know, I'm a general, but I am the king's right-hand man here, and I am going to be in a situation where I have to go into an idolatrous temple, but God knows I'm not actually worshipping or showing an act of adoration or obese, and so, you know, may God forgive me. Not for past things.

I mean, and why just single that out? You're saying that's the worst the guy's ever done, you know? And just to skip down to the actual verse here in 2 Kings 5, verse 18, and just confirm this in the Hebrew here, 2 Kings 5, 18. So, may he forgive. The Hebrew, in terms of forgiving, is an ongoing thing.

May he forgive in the future. Yeah, when I go, it's absolutely talking about an ongoing thing. It's not talking about, right, where it says, and I bow down, the reason that's past tense is in Hebrew called vovkonversiv.

It turns it around. It uses past tense to speak a future, so anyone knowing Hebrew knows that. Yeah, so it's talking about ongoing, new Jewish publication in society, but may the Lord pardon your servant for this when my master enters the temple of Ramon to bow down, bow low and worship there, and he is leaning on my arm so that I must bow low on the temple of Ramon. When I bow low on the temple of Ramon, may the Lord pardon your servant in this.

Yeah, it is asking for it very explicitly. In the future, will he pardon me when this happens? So, it's a very good question. When I was in India, my last trip, I was interacting with an Indian Christian, and he was, maybe he lived in America, but he was very critical of the new chief of state for Andhra Pradesh, a strong Christian man. He said, look, here he is at a Hindu temple, and he's involved with this, and he's involved with that. Well, as chief of state, there are various responsibilities he has, and even if there was a new temple dedication, whatever, as chief of state, he would be there, a new building being dedicated, and it's largely a Hindu nation, et cetera, but he's known, everyone knows him as a Christian, so I talked to someone who's actually close to him, and has been like a counselor to him in private. He said, brother, the man is a strong Christian, uncompromising, but this is our culture in India. You have to be part of it, and this is just normal life here, but everyone knows he's a Christian, and he's not a Hindu, and he doesn't worship the Hindu gods. So, if there are situations like that, that we face, where it's not a matter of overtly denying our faith, maybe a certain situation, you know, here, for example, in the workplace, there may be certain things that are required of you, that could give the impression that you agree with a larger social agenda. Well, you don't, but because they're not explicitly requiring you to violate your faith, then you just fit in with the system to do your best to make a difference. I'm sure Joseph had to do that in Egypt under Pharaoh, I'm sure Daniel had to do that under Nebuchadnezzar and others in Babylon, so that's the world in which we live.

Now, if the king had said to Naaman, I want you to show your allegiance to the god Remon by offering a sacrifice, I believe he would have said, no, I can't do that, because I know there's only one true god, and that's Yahweh. So, it's a fine line between compromise and wisdom sometimes. And often, we disguise our compromise and call it wisdom, and say, well, I'm just using wisdom. Really, what we're trying to do is avoid reproach. We're trying to avoid the reproach of the cross. But other times, it's not the battle we're supposed to fight.

It's not the big issue. I don't have to raise my hand every time the professor says something I differ with. I remember one time in a Jewish mysticism class I was in at Queens College in New York, and we each had a scholar, a Jewish mystic, or someone Jewish scholar that we had to comment on, so I did a paper, and it was about a particular mystic, but this one had some very strong anti-Christian things to say. And I was a very open witness in the class. The professor knew I was a believer, a well-known Jewish scholar. And I presented all of his arguments. This is what he said about this and about this, and how he critiqued Christianity, etc. Then at the end, I simply said, had I been giving my own presentation, it would have been very different, but these were his views. That was what I was required to do, is present his views. I didn't feel the need to, now, I have to say this, so we have to pick our battles, and we have to know, look, if you're in the military, if you're in some setting where the authority structure is really strict, there are going to be certain things that we don't agree with, but we just have to accept. But if it comes to an actual profession of faith from us, or a denial of our faith, or signing on a dotted line, you know, like pronouncing two men married or something like that, then that's when we say, sorry, I can't do that.

Right? But it's a great thing to use as a principle to think through. So thank you for the call. It's really, we have to be led by the Holy Spirit. Yeah. And then the key thing is, if we have a pattern of obedience and courage, obedience and courage, and taking a stand, and then we feel, you know, it's time to use wisdom here, not to make a fuss over that, then that's probably the right stance.

If we have a history of compromise and cowardice, then perhaps our wisdom needs to be reexamined. Hey, thank you for the call. Hopefully it's of help to you and your friends as well. I've got time for one more call. Let's go to Brett in Neptune, New Jersey. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I've got a question for you. I've been hearing a lot about the idea of kenosis, and so it's been kind of confusing to me, because I happen to like a lot of teaching that, like, Bill Johnson does, and I think he's a great teacher and a powerful just man of God. And so people accuse him of saying things that, you know, Jesus did miracles as a man and right relationship with God, not as God, and that's why he tells us to follow him, follow that example by agency of Holy Spirit. So I'm very confused as to really what kenosis is and why it's heretical. So could you maybe help me understand that?

Sure. So kenosis refers to emptying. And in Philippians 2, when it speaks of Jesus emptying himself and taking on the form of a servant, that's the concept of kenosis. So even within evangelical circles, there's a debate in terms of what it actually means. The simplest way to describe it is that he put aside his divine prerogatives. In other words, he chose to lay aside his ability to function as God at all times in this world. Some would say that he was stripped of his divine power willingly. And that's where you say, ah, well, then in that case, he wasn't truly God or God changed.

So it's kind of the terminology. And I've seen, you know, Orthodox evangelical teachers accused of your teaching kenosis heresy. So the alleged heresy would be that you are stripped of this and you no longer have it. So the better way to say it is that he willingly laid aside his divine prerogatives. But in that sense, yes, I agree with Bill Johnson that when Jesus healed the sick, drove out demons, he said he was doing it by the power of the Spirit.

Why? Because he had willingly laid aside his divine prerogatives. That's why he was anointed by the Spirit. Why else did he need to be anointed? So that being said, I know as I've spoken to Bill about it, Chris Valentine, they've suggested we need to make very, very clear our belief that Jesus always was God and never ceased being God at any point in time. Fifteen minutes from now, those watching live, join us on YouTube. Ask Dr. Brown on YouTube.