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November 11, 2020 4:50 pm
Prophetic ministry today. What's real, what's not.
What's good, what's bad.
What about discernment what about accountability will cover little stage for the line of fire, your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the wino fired now by going 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown) text Fran message friend not want to miss a moment of this next hour.
Tell everybody you know to tune in. If you're on the radio listening online through watching online, however you taking the said spread this message. It's very very important Michael Brown here. Welcome to the modifier number to call 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 when you focus the entire hour discussing prophetic ministry today why we believe in it, how we discern what role it plays what about accountability. What about all these prophecies about the 2020 elections and I can think of a better person to discuss this with then my good friend Dr. Joseph Matera. He's the founding pastor of Resurrection church in Brooklyn or where do we start with credentials leads number of organizations.
The US coalition of apostolic leaders Chris Kevin coalition written the 11 best-selling books poisonous power. The most recent Holland to talk about but if you have a question specifically related to prophetic ministry. We will take some calls as well. As we go Joe welcome back to the broadcast. Thanks for joining us today but your to be recruiter. My current yeah crazy times were living in today. Ha all year. Pressure from within the church and outside the church gears civil rights issues that are going out there. There's so health issues and then now we have a huge controversy with body of Christ. Yeah so not just elections but many prophetic words about elections and a unanimous chorus of charismatic prophets, all saying the trunk would be elected to a second term meaning a second consecutive term for what we understood in many saying hey God spoke it to contend for this can happen to send their false prophets stone them. So we want to talk this through, but the Joe first.
If you could give in the simplest terms, your understanding of what we refer to his fivefold ministry, and why it's important. Sure Ephesians 4 verse 11 occultist God is given some to be apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers and evangelist in their given to perfect or mature the saints for the work of the ministry so that we're not tossed to and fro, so that we mature, so that we come to the fullness of the stature of the fullness of Christ as a corporate son, not just individual church. So without the fivefold ministry operating greatly limits the capacity of not only each individual of the lever but also the body of Christ. In general, maturing and just to break down a few specific things we talk about apostle. This is not some highly exalted title. Many people here think what you like you like John or Peter, Paul, your writing Scripture that can authority someone use the term when we doing fivefold ministry. It's just is no different in terms of another officer position of service new pastor, teacher, man, just reduce your serve. But what's the difference between being called to to be an apostle. As we understand the term that one of the 12, but like others like Barnabas in the New Testament. Recall the apostles so small a apostle which is amiss between that and pastor well activist quote shows 12 apostles to start the church because beer gifting is one of being a pioneer and entrepreneur to constantly call to extend territory but was used in Roman Greco culture apostle was someone sent to conquer territory for the Roman Empire. So is more a military than a religious term that Jesus borrowed which is nothing new we parted term recklessly, which was used since 687 BC is a group of people came together to to lead of a city in Greek culture. So Jesus regularly used a common vernacular to depict functions and descriptions of people that were to be his followers, especially some who would lead them to some cultural cost. Apostolic ministry would be with tiny new territory with maybe birthday movements of missions or something like that and maybe some of the founders of denominations there. That's what it became but but they really apostolic people like John Wesley or Hudson Taylor. It is that how you would see it that the funny thing is, while they were alive. Nobody called them apostles, the once great God. They will call the apostles. So it's pretty funny but here John Wesley is a great exemplar of what an apostle is in you know, I would agree probably with you that we don't like to throw the title around so use it more of an adjective.
So Paul.Colby apostle called in Scripture, it's more Paul and apostle.
We feel more comfortable with the record that avoids unnecessary hierarchical particular kind of descriptions that could lift one person up over another. It's more the way up describing how we search based on the DNA ministry gift of Jesus as you look in the five Concerta four Gospels. You see, all fivefold ministry in its fullness, and so people have a piece of that fivefold ministry and it's not just limited to so-called full-time church ministry.
There was no such bifurcation in the early church no difference tween the workplace and church place and so he tells us in Ephesians 47 that each one of us is given a gift. According to the measure of the grace of Christ in the context of that is Ephesians 411.
Thus we can conclude that everybody in the church functions in at least one of these five gifts. Although not everyone is called to be a spiritual leader in an ecclesiastical body, so there's a difference there are so so in other words, because Jesus exemplifies all these things and call to follow him roll call to be soldiers and some really I gifted so learners but they work full-time vocational jobs they don't have an evangelist title and yet they're flowing is evangelist someone else you like that the caretaker of of your office place you know and watching over people is like a pastoral heart that that person is not functioning as a pastor in a vocational way. What about when the prophets, where, why do we need prophets in the fivefold function where they fit today right well in the natural world.
Even if someone cannot say they could have a prophetic proclivity and those would be the people who would call secular profits or futurist people were incredible insight that predict trends and help people know where to invest their money will governments to know what is going to happen in the military so those kind of things are there but when it comes to the church. God takes our gifts, he sanctifies it he anoints it and then it's used to his glory, and so on. The New Testament we do have people that are call prophets like Jacobus Silas and others, and even the church in Antioch was not even led by an apostle initially said prophets and teachers in acts 13 one.
There were leaving that church. So we do see cognitive continuation of the prophetic ministry. However, there's a huge difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament and that's where a lot of church is confused today even some notable ministers in my opinion I layout layout. Some of the differences in areas of confusion that you see well the Old Testament if a prophet made a mistake. He was called false property to be stoned to death because there was a dream or a vision specifically from Yahweh that would come to them and they was no room for error. Basically, but in the New Testament. There's more leeway tells us in first grade, 14, 29, that when someone gives a pathetic word. The other prophetic people should judge it first Thessalonians 5 1921 tells us not to quench prophecies or to quench the spirit, but to test all things of first John four tells us to test the spirits and so we see very much difference in the New Testament approach seems to be that God gives us a little more leverage because the Holy Spirit mingling without spirit. Everybody has the Holy Spirit in the New Testament of the work you're not a Christian.
According to Romans eight but where to be primarily led by the spirit as sons of God.
Romans 814 the tech to come out through prophetic words can come out through a word in our spirit a collective word to the churches. Jesus gave to the seven churches in Revelation chapter recollect Revelation chapter 2 and three but because the spirit of God is moving through the human spirit. It tells us in first grenade 14 that we prophesy in part, and we know in part which shows there are some limitations as opposed to the Old Testament where believing in the prophets was akin to believing in God himself. Because what they said generally be equal to Scripture is a big difference between the old and New Testament prophetic function so let's use this analogy just comes to me now you're defusing a bomb and either cut the red wire of the Bluewater is the red wire is the right one.
Thousands of lives saved. If the rig was the wrong one. Everybody blows up.
So you have to get it right because the stakes are high. That would be like Old Testament prophets. They were speaking words of direction for the nation and the people themselves didn't have the ability to hear God so they got it right. It was salvation for the nation they got wrong to be judgment destruction, they can be led after idols. So therefore if you spoke presumptuously false prophet get stoned to death in the New Testament. It's not like you cut the right wire and everything singeing on the prophetic word because all of us have the Holy Spirit within us all of us have of course the word of God first and foremost we can discern. So if a prophet came to me someone with a proven track record is Mike. The Lord told me you to quit this ministry here relocate to the state and start this new work.
If the Holy Spirit and speak that to me it would be in one year and out the other because I'm responsible as a child of God to follow his leaving so we just got 30 seconds before the break, but are you concerned that that some brothers and sisters in prophetic ministry today are wanting to be followed as if they had the authority of Old Testament prophets. I not as concerned about some of the prophetic leaders. Although I don't know each one personally but I think their followers which are diffuse and we don't know where they're at. Will know how mature they are easy for them to read the Old Testament without medical training and think that all we should believe the prophets like it says in second Chronicles 2020 and if we don't we knock and prosper they think they're supposed to be led by prophets where tells us in Hebrews 1000 relation comes the Jesus of course fly Old Testament texts.
These Old Testament tests.
This can start the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown many times on the air and happy to talk about it again to those who question it refutes dangerous nonbiblical others leave it recognize it, seen it work. See is being totally scriptural, but to try to sort out accountability prophetic words today will begin to calls in a little while. 866-34-TRUTH for those watch.
You can see I got a New York shirt on, in honor of well I spent my first 32 years and where Dr. Joe Matera has lived his life so Joe, aside from scriptural testimony that we could use to argue for prophetic ministry continually not adding to the Bible but the Holy Spirit speaking Jesus and the sheep hear my voice out.
Could you give an example or two of some of you seen through. So monitor yourself, experience yourself, that indicates the ongoing reality and importance of prophetic ministry called Gloria wrote a journal or just incredible accurate words I have written words since 1980. Actually I do have a journal of and it filled with so many pages of accurate words. So I believe in the prophetic. One example words in 1988 or nine I believe it was our church was really growing and we would just recruit for the administrator but we didn't have the money and I didn't know what to do. So I spent the whole day and fasting and prayer. Nobody knew about this study to tell my wife is just spending the whole day was really burdening me and three hours into my fast my spiritual overseer John Kelly called me up and he said hey Joe I suspected you needed administrator and I said yes and he sent me an administrator that served free of charge for one year. Just off the ground.
Another time I was fasting and praying whether or not I should start a network of churches. I got prophetic words from three different people, including John Kelly, and I didn't take their word for it, but doesn't look good to set aside these days to pray and fast and it was in the middle of January and I started my three day fast and the not only not even two or three hours into the fast I get a call from an intercession. All he knows me, who lived in Maryland. She prophesied that I was in the birth canal, giving birth to some big another intercessor called me from Texas and said virtually the same thing and then one of my best friends when he last and call me up and he said God shall be your starting a network. Why do you talk to me about it what's going on Joe this within the first three hours that I set myself to pray and fast to this day blows my Monica tell you other stories just incredible know I ran into a guy in DC and I I journal daily, but I wish I had noted more things before I started journaling years back and documenting more things I've experienced, but I'm running into giant DC.
I'd known them previously in different ministry work. He was always kind of jeans, T-shirt, kinda guy and you helped out administratively behind the scenes and no political involvement anything like that I seem in DC is wearing a suit and tie.
What happened to you man. This is always an amazing story. Having you heard he just got off the phone with several governors on a conference call he was working with another major Republican candidate and there political campaign.
I made a right-hand man to this person. What happened he said well this one this one sister that he knew with the approval prophetic ministry had a word over him, and how God was going to raise him up to work in DC and work in the political realm and that he needed three new suits immediately because it have any further job. He was can be doing right after that someone contacts him what some have supposed by you three new suits gets in the suit then next thing is connected host amenities they basing a small but when it's year in year out, year in and year out. You recognize the reality of this and and obviously we all have questions of things we pray about for years without getting answers and end things we go through that we don't have all the insightful but so many times God does speak and yet we also see people get things wrong. You have a great article is on Joseph Matera it's MAT TER eight Joseph Matera.org eight reasons why some prophetic voices do not have 2020 vision right we can start going through that but if in fact the Lord has spoken through a host of profits that Donald Trump will be reelected and there there believing, not just in four years but now reelected and that there is been fraud in its can be overturned. If that comes to pass wonderful.
If you feel the content for that. Do it. I'm contending for the will of God to be done for corruption rivers to be exposed and let let God take it from there.
But the question does, because there were prophecies about coalbed ending in mid April are dissipating that that did not happen. We we've all seen false prophecies. We don't stone the peoples false prophets of their believer, someone who loves the Lord. Solid believer, but they prophesy falsely we say they're falsely claiming to be a prophet or they make mistakes and we we sit down and and and they lose their credibility a false prophet is a wolf in sheep's clothing, but you been in this you've taught prophetic ministry work with with many prophetic leaders. Let's go through some of the reasons the people get things wrong.
If they turn out to be right about Trump now awesome. Praise God.
Wonderful. I voted for him.
Wonderful B, but we've seen this prophecies ready this year with COBIT.
There's a concern about lack of accountability in the charismatic church was is a valid valid concern. So how about we start going through your list of of eight reasons why profit sometimes miss your get things wrong, sure, but I want to make sure people know that I'm not taking away her disparaging those who believe in God for Trump to be reelected through litigation. My main concern those the church. The confusion of the division that I stayed knocked the election in this article I just want to make sure it's clear.thank you for clarifying that absolutely and and some of the people on the front line saying God spoke. This is can happen a personal friends of ours people that we love and that we know to be solid men of God are women of God's will not disparage any of that. But because I can tell me the outcome I I can't contend is if I can't believe a Seminole city with its 10 people. I still have to go but but what I know my own heart. Okay, so let's let's go through the list.
Eight reasons why prophetic voices sometimes make mistakes. You can find this a Joseph Matera.org article had okay so Warners they prophesy out of their own human spirit. Jeremiah talks about that in chapter 23 how the speak out of their own heart, but they don't speak the word of the Lord and that's a very common problem because it's hard to tell the difference between a soul and no spirit.
That's the job of the word of God be that Hebrews 411 tells us that the word of God, soul and spirit, we know were truck part B tells us that spirit, soul and body's will made up in first Thessalonians 523. So the trick is not to think God is speaking.
If you feel strongly about something in your emotions or your soul. Sometimes very hard to tell the difference between a human spirit and/or soul, and the Holy Spirit.
Sometimes it could be a human spirit or not her emotions, but it's not the Holy Spirit set so let me give an example. When I experienced this in my own life and tell me if this is what you talking about a couple moved to Maryland to be part of our ministry in 1987.
The wife became secretary in our ministry school and her husband. They moved because her husband was diagnosed with inoperable brain cancer and what my first message.can't beat you have the same age as my wife and I that you daughter same age as our daughters. So I was determined he's going live. Michael Scott Michael sine die and then just as I finished opening service at a major new conference or something he have a seizure right there in front of his office like a challenge right in her face and and as time went on I realized how he's gonna make it.
He's he's gonna live and we saw some amazing breakthroughs and things.
The doctors had no answer for a certain point I believe this is around 1989.
Now I believe that I stepped from my own fervent desire to see him live to begin to say you're going to live your gonna live in a in a prophetic way, you will be healed and ultimately he died in 89 and I've never since then prophesied to some of that you live because I just my own correction I thought okay I somehow my intense desire to see them healed bled into mousing you will be healed. You will be healed and I know everything is conditional but I can present it like that. It is that example we want something so bad that we now speak it is if it's a prophecy pastor for 37 years. The most common example, which definitely would correspond to what you just said would be a man older loved a woman and after he allows himself to fall in love with her. He goes in praise about it, and his shoulders soul filled with passion for this woman. He can't distinguish between his emotions. In God's spirit and he says I have a piece of data God is spoken to me this is my wife. Of course, touching the reverse as well. Women believing for a particular person man in the new election, but it's also possible. Some of us have had such strong passion for the reelection of Donald Trump that the same principle can apply where we miss it because our soul overrides the ability to hear the clear voice of God. That's also possible like again.
I'm not saying that some of our respected friends and those who still contending I'm saying is a principal possibility taught it and then the problem is when it doesn't happen instead of recognizing okay. I really wanted to happen.
It did. Now people's faces.
Shattuck is what God said it would happen. We mistake our emotions for the voice of God right much more to come. Go to Joseph Matera.org check out the article right now posted eight reasons why some prophetic voices do not have 20/20 vision we come back Alana bring on some of your calls to go through with Joe and will keep going through his article. Also, my dear friend Craig Keener.
New Testament scholars is a great article in Christianity today prophecies don't come to pass office products turn out to Craig has to say in Christianity today for cleansing and dance the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown is his deal. My whoever the American people voted for is my present Barack Obama was my president Lloyd and vote from George Bush before that was my president voted for him.
Bill Clinton was my president before that I didn't vote for him so let the courts go through what they go through right it's it's it's a fair process. The election has not yet been certified. Okay. And if the final decision is Joe Biden on the election than he has. My prayers and he is my president. No mystery there no mystery. If I tell people pray for him as much, as I pray for Trump and his Trump in fact won the election fairly and squarely in this fraud. The P exposed which we should let you be the position of every single one of us every single one of us. It was one truthful election. That's what we want and then whoever wins the to be a peaceful transition of power without riding in the streets and let's pray with all our might, whoever that ex-president that should be the position of every one of us is apologies right so I'm speaking with Dr. Joe Matera leader highly respected international leader and leader of leaders is website Joseph Matera.org talk about prophetic issues, prophetic accountability, and if you enjoy the broadcast and want to stand with us watch on Facebook. There's is a $or donates on just click on that stand with this any gift of any size helps on YouTube is a $beneath the chat window so thanks for extending with us and on the website asked her to Brown.org donate button hey Joe, we got a ton of things to go through but folks have some questions about prophetic accountability. So let me bring us some callers on and will keep going through your article so we start with Brian in Cleveland Ohio a please ask your questions are. I got my question is going to, say, saying I'm definitely a continuation of the spirit and all that a firm note, you got spanked. Here's my concern went when you have profit, such as with Jeremiah Johnson who are saying their hearing God audible voice as opposed to a dream or vision work is interpretation anything onto for me. Doesn't that seem a little different. Note that having a dream having to interpret it through the flesh with the American family. I can understand getting that detailed raw, but if I was ecstatic was that I heard God audible voice tell me Donald Trump's going to be president, and then it doesn't happen when you guys agree that we should deal with got a lot more severely for the sake of the sheep or being damaged by the Bible profit and I say this is a pastor of the Christian missionary alliance and I think people get tricked up into this stuff even Jeremiah Johnson announced demonizing thinking people being the slip ministry and some of these prophetic words that don't come the past.
So the past. I see the damage that this does to the sheep. Don't you guys when you guys agree that we need to deal with this a little more severely than just a they missed 40 o'clock go first to well yeah I don't follow the prophets article good on social media. My director does that for me so I'm not sure what the context of it is, but all I could say is my position is because I feared God and a mixing dura mater of the stone.
I then because there's room for error as elucidated in my article I very rarely say, thus saith the Lord. I only say I believe the Lord is saying this and I submitted to respected leaders before I release it publicly and I'm very very concerned with people who say God is told them something well. The Bible tells us in first printing 14 that we should submitted to other prophets per square needs 1429. So how could someone judge it if it's of God.
If you already said God told you we can't judge God so I train in our school or profits of not done that in the past years and in all those I venture. Please try to get away with from saying the Lord told you this in the Lord told you that because it if you make one mistake, it's gonna hurt your credibility say I believe the Lord is saying there's an submitted other people to pray on it and to try to weigh in on it and confirm it. Thanks Jill and then Brian. I know Jeremiah ministered for him.
Many times I believe he fears God deeply and he said that if there any errors in terms of what's happening now in prophecies about Trump he wants to correct them so you know that that's a bridge to cross if if that happens, but I do believe that we are very much out of order today and a lot of the charismatic church that we kind of follow the prophets it's it's not a biblical order. You know what I'm saying that that it all the ministries flow together and are submitted one to another, and you don't have the independent profit ministry that's outside of the body outside of other ministries outside of local churches that you can just give a word to the whole church and for example William Branham. What a powerful healing ministry in word of knowledge. Ministry began to feel that he was Elijah that he was the last in time profit.
There is no profit on the planet today that has the word of the Lord for the whole body D what to look for the whole body is the Bible. That being said that there's a question I got to supernaturally work through many prophets. I think we let things get out of order and if so, this is all hypothetical. Okay if someone claims that they had the audible voice of the Lord's not a dream where they got interpretation wrong and not a sense of something that the put onto sensing but rather they claim is a revelation on that level and factually, undeniably, when you went through all the options approved are false then asked me some very serious soul-searching very serious discussion of how the error or the deception could be on that level and then we just have to have built-in accountability within the body. Look, I strongly differ with my secessionist friends that say the things of the spirit and offer today in prophecies not for today and you ridicule prophetic gifts; hyper critics that I think are doing terribly destructive work, but I totally agree with many of them there is a massive lack of accountability amidst my book, playing with holy fire deals with the lack of self policing through Matera and I Matera and I were involved with hotel Bentley situation in trying to bring some level of discipline and accountability to situation. They are so very serious important question. How exactly is handled. We have to look at exactly what happens. All right, let's grab another question here at Timothy and used in Texas what your question for Dr. Matera and me. Dr. Brown think about all Western collar and I'm really there are internal government.
Dr. Hyder not only quite a bit and I was not interested in clonic about the authentic in my younger you there when I was a 34 now I want with a well-known high ministry that involved in the attic and you know interactive plan. The church in politics and social issues and whatnot. I found a lot of this environment, you know, I still believe in, in the prophetic operator my own spiritual life. No need for discernment by you know, I guess that I've always wanted a directed trying to figure out you know what you guys thought practically orphan thing that you know especially the church didn't know when you know administrator operating when I don't know if you caught the plan or structure.
We have a Jesus just jumping for for time. Second, and thanks for calling at Timothy's old Joe there are abuses, what we do in the local church and then on a national level with RP centerpieces with each each aspect of ministry has its abuses admit we would have to deal with them. So in the local church.
Joe, how you deal with abusive prophetic ministry and then as a national leader, how you dress these things well in the local church really personal prophecy should never be done except in the presence of elders will mature Christians that can judge it. That will spare the one giving the word from being taken out of context and the one receiving the word from only hearing what they want to hear and/or getting a false word nationally and very, very concerned of many articles on the danger of the Internet profit.
The on social media, you know, without we know we don't know their marriage. We don't know if they're in a local church. We don't know who they're accountable to, but they go off base Facebook live and he starts rocket all these prophetic words let you know that 50,000 followers and it totally violates first Timothy three.
There's no great for them being raised up or nurtured through the character qualifications and ecclesial protocols of what an elder or deacon or even a penny leader should go through noted in first Timothy three and so without any grid there dropping these words and people who do not know the word of God and/or are not submitted to a local church and/or are not discipled by mature leaders in the church are going to just follow these people because again they don't know the difference between Old Testament and New Testament profit sincerely think the hearing God through this person. They have not yet mature enough to hear God for themselves or know the word of God self so I'm very concerned. I think you could be a blessing, but it could be a curse. This the Internet and the garnering of all these followers without knowing who these people are and it needs to be a demand by the body. Christ did each pastor and/or prophet or anybody should show what collective they're part of who they're accountable to what group doesn't have to be denomination. It could be a movement. It could be Association, but there needs to be some kind of collective and a Presbytery that people are accountable to, whether formal or informal, otherwise there just somebody who could be a train wreck waiting to happen and to bring down that in the body of Christ.
Thanks thanks for the words of wisdom there, and Timothy thanks for the call and and again if you're just tuning in, Joe Matera and I believe in prophetic ministry today. We have been personally blessed and enriched my prophetic ministry that we received in our own lives and some of the ones that people want to stone today as false prophets of friends and colleagues of ours and we seen them used by the Lord many times over the years so our goal is to be constructive. Our goal is criticism is constructed. Those of you are sure the gospel continuing to many of the next president leave for that if you're sure of it speak that to me so I'm single you will bring about your will fulfill health on the blanks. It's the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6634 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown is someone I like you want to get the support questions of biblical full article. So go to Joseph Matera.org that's Matera M ATT EERA Joseph Matera.org reaches new important article 8 reasons why some prophetic voices do not have 20/20 vision. He is not saying that people have not heard from God about comp. We shall see. Right is not discouraging you from believing what you believe gospel in your heart of his many praying in a very different direction, but he's breaking these things.
Doc is ready we seen with coalbed certain prophetic words that didn't come to pass, etc. and either way, prophetic ministry is just one part of the whole body doesn't leave the body. Some of the other reasons so one reason you can prophesy wrongly prophesied of your own spirit and that he prophesy to your base. People if all you know you prophesy beyond your level of faceless read the whole article. All right, but let me ask you Joe some questions for time sake. I'm not going to bring the callers on but both are real from Palatine, Illinois is beholding the whole show is a prophet or role or an office will I am more comfortable with in the New Testament not saying the apostolic is an office.
The prophetic is an office. I look at it more as a function. I think the original 12 apostles were in office of apostle because they were institutionally the foundation of the church until Jesus comes back for the church but everybody else builds upon that foundation and it's not that you're an apostle everywhere you go because you know only have apostolic ministry according to the measure of rule that God is giving you geographically or to certain kinds of networks. Prophetically I would say that some move in the gifts of prophecy more often than others, but it doesn't mean that they stand in a fivefold ministry, prophetic role because everybody could prophesied tells us in the Bible.
First Corinthians 1314 tells us walk across the and edify the church, but those who are leaders in the church who have a strong prophetic proclivity and bent, which goes beyond just mere prophetic words. It goes beyond prophetic generalization perspective foundational roles needed by the church they could oversee churches networks through New Testament prophetic people very hard to discern the difference between them and and apostolic people are usually the way I discern the differences. What apostles will speak in principle. Prophets usually prophesy it. They need inspiration. The apostolic usually speaks out of a wealth of wisdom experiencing governmental understanding.
So there is some nuance there. But I'm comfortable more with a function if anything to stop a lot of the abuse got it takes place in charismatic circles.hey thank you for the question for holding so when someone who functions prophetically not this gift of prophecy, but is retirement leadership role in the body locally or nationally, with that person be the one that's more likely to see where the train is going off the track with their sin in the camp where there's a certain jealousy for the glory of God and departed from that was that taken Old Testament function interview and putting it in the new no. I think this similarity between both covenants not hyper dispensational so I believe that there is a continuation of understanding we could understand. For example, the personality type of prophets in the Old Testament and understand how they could function in the new. The biggest difference though is that in the Old Testament made a mistake, your false prophet New Testament there is room for judgment but other than that there's a lot of similarities and both Testaments had prophets who were concerned with was the first estimate would be Israel, and they were coveted prosecutors upholding the coveted standards in the ethics and the law regarding coming against the Kings and the priest and the other property estate broker violated the covenant New Testament there also motivated by the glory of God. Jesus is coming back for glorious church, so they motivated about correcting the church or making sure it's the right place, making sure that the gospel is not water down. And yes, being jealous of the glory of God. That's were true part of the crop.
It would be their first and foremost, God lovers not man pleasers so that the similarity between both Testaments, it's scary how much we see things like this. We compare notes that it gets scary that positivist doesn't mean you're right and everything, but were very much in harmony understanding of this conditionality Joseph in Miami. Assessment prophecy being conditional. We know Jeremiah 18 they set a principle that would cause his skin, a blessed nation and they turned to sin then will turn the blessing into recursive pieces going to judge them and they repent and how turn the judgment to blessing. We see that Jonah proclaims Nineveh will be destroyed 40 days. The people repent and God rescinds the judgment so how does conditionality play and to that to the current discussion about elections and and the broader question of prophecy will use the term are 18 or Jonah the book of Jonah. Would Nineveh that was all part of Scripture.
So God gave a overview of why the prophecy did come to pass, so there was a lot of context there to avoid confusion and I'm sure that the prophets are brought out those facts in the context of those words but in the New Testament yeah unified prophesy to someone that God has raised you up or call me to be an apostle.
We know that that conditional upon your obedience. But when we prophesy other things we have to qualify it by saying this condition or we run the risk of being judged is making a mistake or example when people said that God is going to raise up tromping and when in a landslide. Some prophets did say that how could you say that that was conditional on the Trump's character was always the same.
I've never seen so much fasting and praying in my life in the body of Christ. I me II don't know how the conditions warrant that for Trump landslide if that's what you prophesy to me and so to me it's a way of getting out of grace and the fact you made a mistake, and unfortunately after COBIT and the mistake I was on a panel with probably 20 prophetic people in all of them thought that Coke would be lifted around Passover.
I was the only one who didn't think that was gonna happen. I haven't heard one person apologizing. Making mistake so I think we have to be very careful that we don't try to make excuses based on the conditionality of prophetic words. Some are clearly conditional. Others are not as clearly conditional and we take each one context appreciate that. Thanks thanks you and thanks Joseph for the question. So we understand that this conditionality in a certain level built into everything you do the opposite of what God wants us to do.
We can expect to get the intended results, but if if again if wiping prophesy anything if it's conditional on on all kinds of circumstances that we don't even know other, you know, if I say the Lord showed me it's it's going to be 90° and at last in Alaska tomorrow and then it's it's 30 below zero and I said won't. That was only if there was 24 hours of continual fasting for the moment I saw say that it didn't build that in with predicting anything and the reason I share this with you. The reason that I feel so confident that God's will will ultimately be done with its president by the president. Trump and God knows what greater purpose is to bring out of all of this right.
He can use anybody and surprise us, and sometimes the worst and becomes the best thing in and all it my hopes not in a manner party in any way, but the reason I I feel confident that if there were conditions that mementos I've never seen this much prayer for the election of my life needed to this moment, an enemy or from people literally around the world who have been fasting and praying for the outcome of elections and massive prayer gatherings and everything else. You name it.
So 11 prophetically are said to me, Trump will be reelected if the church is pray for the church is prayed. That's what we I don't think we can fall back on what the conditions might Matt really didn't believe hard enough and and look I guess the bottom line for me. If you want to have Old Testament prophetic authority that you have to take Old Testament prophetic accountability it on himself. If you want your words to be held to on that level that you miss you get started as well.
That's not New Testament prophetic ministry.
Having said that, do you see we got out a minute.
Do you see how God could redeem this whole difficult situation for his great purposes. In the days ahead, sure to be a learning experience.
If the prophets made a mistake prophetic housecleaning so to speak in terms of new levels of accountability and if Trump doesn't get reelected. I think there are a number of reasons why not be releasing that next week but wanted it is I do believe that too many people look to Trump as their Savior. Provider and Geiger.
This sounds almost like a pseudo-missile or even necessarily "first conservative secondarily Christian song first. The Christian secondarily served. Secondarily, US citizen, I don't wrap of the gospel with the American flag and people too tied to the USA and the destiny USA post understanding of proper ecclesiology, eschatology, and the purpose of Jesus is coming, so I think God will wake people up with this pseudo-Messiah thing.
It also will discredit Q Annan greatly is a colleague of mine has just written the book Joe we got to continue the conversation. I love you appreciate thank you wisdom brings the surface through must be wise.
God bless you my brother, thank you so much