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My Job Is to Point You to Jesus

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
October 20, 2020 4:30 pm

My Job Is to Point You to Jesus

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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October 20, 2020 4:30 pm

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Dr. Michael Brown

Have a spirited discussion today about an important pro-life bill. What are the strengths and weaknesses for the line of fire with your host activist on the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and friends for joining us a lot of hard today, this is Michael Brown delighted to be with you.

Our focus today. Pro-life to be talking about some very important issues.

Here's a recalled way and to ask your own questions 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 8788 for a couple months back I had on the Eric Janet Porter. She is a conservative activist. She is a pro-life leader and she is author of the new book, a heart beat away and she has been called the five most dangerous religious right leaders encompass America because of her being a champion of the heartbeat bill saying that once a heartbeat is detected that you cannot abort a baby after Janet was on doing the show with me. Gentlemen called in any raise concerns about the bill and he said actually the bill itself accepts abortion to a certain point, but then tries to outlaw it. Beyond that, and I symbol isn't this just incremental progress. In other words, every abortion we could stop is a step in the right direction while you look for the complete abolition of abortion and in a culture that becomes a pro-life culture may signal the very wording of it itself is defective and he recommended I have some other folks on to present their viewpoints so reach out to Tom Heflin and I'll introduce Tom in the moment you come immediately said he be happy to come on. Janet said she'd be happy to come back on and interact with Tom now at this point we are having a problem reaching Janet so we may hear from only Tom today hopefully will be able to find out where she is and sometimes people get times on stronger.

This mix of something, but Tom is a national conservative political activist is a publisher organizer and consultant. He worked closely with former Reagan administration official and UN ambassador Dr. Alan Keyes many of you will remember Dr. Keyes running for Congress were running against someone and Barack Obama. If I recall, at times, the primary author of the equal protection for posterity resolution which will talk about so hopefully will have Tom and Janet interacting but will start with Tom for sure up Tom. Welcome to the line of fire. Thanks so much for joining us today. All thanks Ramy Dr. Brown that the pleasure to be here, let me ask first if we get into any specifics, why you are so passionate about pro-life issues why it's been such a major burden to you for so many years. Well court that dark by Christian faith. I can read my Bible and about murder require. I am a father and I have four grandchildren so far. You know I love children and I also love my country and our our Constitution date of the ultimate purpose to secure the blessings of liberty to our posterity, so many years ago I read conclusion that if you want to save America you must stop this genocide that we call abortion because abortion violate destroy every stated purpose of our God diffusion it is contrary to God's law.

Contrary to the natural law contrary to the left of equal protection and due process requirements of the fifth and the 14th amendment as well as as well as the protection requirements of all of our state right so it's it's mostly a moral issue as well as constitutional issue an issue. Obviously, that every American of conscience should be concerned about. We have Janet on the lawn with introduce Janet ready.

Jenna thanks much for coming back with us today. Thank you so glad to be here right so Janet, what I want you to do is just take a couple of minutes and layout why you feel the heartbeat bill. It is so important and is making so much progress in America and then will go back to Tom to see what objections and issues he has and will will have a dialogue.

All of us being passionate pro-lifers, but with some major differences here. So what you feel that the heartbeat bill is is so essential so short on anything that I think we all share the same heart that we want to protect babies from when their lives began at the moment and I've spent more than 40 years in the movement trying to do just that. I started off in the in the right to life movement where their strategy was really one of incrementalism where they were really moving like a millimeter down the field as we were trying to restore protection at and I just remembered we could do better than I was a part of the South Dakota effort and mania were looking to restore legal protection from conception and radio stations in Notting with seven different cities without South Dakota every day as well as my regular show that we were there out there on the ground doing everything we can in everything we could, but there came a point and it was in 2010 where the idea came to me again. It was actually an idea I had about 30 years ago and some folks the pro-life movement. We can't rescue every child just yet. Let's get as many as we can. I propose the idea the heartbeat bill and all felt to tell you I was beaten down and bloodied to the place where it was anytime that you suggest we do anything other than move a millimeter down the field. It was skill couldn't be done, and who was not. The question are well thought out legislative strategy.

After all of the Connecticut College with a lot to learn what I learned is that the strategy that we had been using has been not giving up them over a million babies every single year and a body count of 62 million. And so I decided prominent try and do more and that's why we try the person that we try the note to restore legal protection from from conception like we hadn't been successful. Back in 2010, Alabama had not yet passed that bill and I could listen, people are only interested in and in an incremental bill. Let's give him a great big increment immense.

That's where we said let's use the scientific indicator that science is given at in every other area enter in every other hospital in the world you look to see if there's a heartbeat to determine whether or not there's a lot and so Bill simply says that the heartbeat detected the babies protected and will protect every child is heartbeat can be heard and as technology increases will protect more and more, and so we introduced at heartbeat bill back in 2010 and there were a lot of people told me it was absolutely impossible. Couldn't be done, but now the impossible is now inevitable, because we think heartbeat bill passed in Arkansas, North Dakota, Iowa, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri, Louisiana, Tennessee and Ohio where it all began so that instead of abortion stopping a beating heart beating heart will stop abortion which is not to say we don't care about the rest of the babies because we certainly do but it's it's like standing outside a burning building and you know there's some in the movement to say well right like my family can only rescue those babies with the children in the parking lot. Let's get those that were 100% sure will get out that's that's that's one approach there's another approach that says I'm in a go in, carry out as many children from the day care center that's on fire him to carry out as many children as I can go back and him to get the rest – that's really my position but then there's a purest position which which I I think I'm I guess might inure to and that is that if we can't get them all if we can't get 100% of the children are very first try, then let's just stand on the corner and watched the building burning say we would rather be purest would rather be a certain to get them all in one trip and and and and fan fact of the matter is that approach as to same. You know, virtually no one, with the exception of Alabama the only state that pulled it off at last year, there's been no success in that effort, even the small increments, at least those parental consent and right to know the man began to build that I was a part of passing.

At least they have protected thousands of babies because when a woman is informed of a battle there's a 24-hour consideration waiting. Her parental consent or parental notice that that does and does they live. So I think what my position is, if you will. If you want to support an incremental bill 1% of the babies, for example, feel pain. I'm sure that if you are for personhood and you want to protect them all in one shot. I think go for it, but but the position I take is is is I want to save as many as I can, and in fact exactly what the heartbeat bill is doing and if using science and what I found is in weekly founders and the legislature both in the states and in Congress off a one-story week, we brought in.

We build is the youngest to ever testify in the states. We did also in Congress regarding an unborn baby 18 weeks ultrasound. We quickly ultrasound up on the screen. We played little baby Lincoln little unborn baby boy named Lincoln's space and his heart was beating up on the screen and people who were there in the committee hearing their protesters. It would been really rather disruptive, but when that baby's heartbeat was seen and heard in that judiciary committee in Congress.

The room was silent and one of the protesters who had been previously very disruptive. Earlier was seen wiping tears from arrived and that's when I realized that this baby's heartbeat can reach the hardest of hearts that he can reach America – with the heartbeat bill is doing. Janet, thanks for laying that out so quickly and passionately. Tom on the Trinity server.

Use it to interact and have a break comes up she'll be able to get started and then right after the break. Back to so so Tom what your thoughts while I want to start by saying I gather we know each other about a dozen airport and other back in the days when I was working with Dr. to you that I think the left like Breitbart brother was out of Florida is a big event with putting on the presidential candidate now that time and I have heard about the way she has become the primary progenitor of the heartbeat approach the incrementalist approach as she called it. I took another Guy I don't even really call myself I call myself an abolitionist of abortion, she can choose to call it the purest position but I call it the equal protection for all of the problem with the burning building analogy is that you that the incrementalist approach the regulation of approach, which is been used now for decades by the pro-life group and pro-life legislators is that the bill themselves are intrinsically more unconstitutional in and of themselves before you even start to talk about the court of the bill. Give permission to abort bait to violate God's law violate. Thou shall not murder.

It also violate every principle of our diffusion and violate the 14th amendment due process and equal protection, just jumping in just getting started back hassling why he has an evolutionist has built and then you have some very healthy interaction to collect champions the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown saying with pro-life leader Janet Porter. Her book on the subject were talking about a heartbeat away importance of the current heartbeat bill that is going across America. My other guest Tom halfling little long time pro-life leader, but prefers to be identified now as an abolitionist of abortion and he is the author of the equal protection for posterity resolution so Tom you were saying before the break that you review the idea that will go in and save as many babies as we can from a burning building and into her best to go back and get the rest is immoral in itself.

Use that analogy because you're saying that the very bills that we are discussing are actually saying it's okay to let the babies burner. That's part of the law so it if you expand on that. In terms of what exam you find immoral limit and then go from there.

Well, in fact, way will waive all of the door lock and chain shot because first of all, every regulate bill done within the context of the fallacy of judicial remedy that we have to conform our lead waste in our public policy. What the court said 47 years ago and that's simply not true that that is not the sort of government that the framers of our Constitution gave us they gave us a constitutional republic in which were supposed to have checked the balance though the 50 bill intrinsically sacrifice. The only real world: legal arguments against abortion which are in the first place.

Equal protection under the law effectively equal protection under the law or our God given unalienable right, starting with the right to life boat. Those principal with you can't win that in any way shape or form, either within the context of the court or outside are thrown away every time we passed a bill that, in effect, and with and then you can kill the baby if under a heartbeat bill. Same as the pain capable bill at 20 weeks, we whatever we most abortion place long before that abortifacient drug take place long before that most babies are ill terminated long before the end and by by passing legislation to do that. You're making sure no babies are getting out of the burning building. The babies who have died in the last four years made no difference to them.

Whether Donald Trump was an officer weather was were there pursuing the abortion down the boat the next years, it won't matter. Those billing the babies were about to be killed.

Whether Donald Trump or whether Joe Biden or office won't matter one bit. I Janet, thank you for your response to Tom my I could not disagree more.

What my friend here is saying is that well matter debating whether to tromp or whether I it actually.because whether we agree that the Supreme Court has the authority that they do with the fact matter is they taken in the way to get it back is within our grasp.

Right now we got a president president Donald Trump was appointed any County.

Who is one who believes that we do that we should interpret the Constitution and not legislate from the bench as they have been doing, but look. Here's the bottom line you could throw up your hands and say nothing matters and if we don't get it perfect not know how to look II wanted I want and abortion. I want to quit talking about it. I want to quit marching about. I want to quit debating what I want to do is and and what Dr. Wilkie, the founder of national like the lights that actually left the Ohio right to life affiliate of national like the life that he found it to join our effort because what he said was, and I would agree on incremental and incremental method is left is woefully inadequate. It didn't get far enough, fast enough.

Dr. Wilkie said we also said he believed the heartbeat bill will protect. He said up to 95% of the baby. I was just think about that for second if we protect almost every child facing abortion. What that means is the abortion mill that are motivated by money, probably not stay open for a fraction of their business because they can't afford it and close them down and that's what the probe or said when they came in.

He testifies that this will end all abortion and I sat there saying yes that's the plan because what is done.

We may not agree that the court within legislating for the bank will I don't agree with it either. But what we are where we are and what we've done in a heartbeat bill. We can kill babies except it is what it said is that if the heartbeat detected that babies protected and what the messages were sending to the court is one that the eighth circuit court of appeals picked up on when they review the heartbeat bills the heartbeat laws in Arkansas, North Dakota bait patient list any response to what the Supreme Court is that the Supreme Court is basically said they state you're allowed to protect children. If there is a likelihood of survival to live for but the market are currently using is a thing called viability when you can survive outside the woman done with the wood abortionist at cousin measurement. Take the measurement and he takes a To be as much is 90% wrong, but the Eighth Circuit recognize Holland a scientific marker here is is being applied everywhere else in our entire medical field and base that are on North Dakota's heartbeat laws the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals begging the Supreme Court to take up the case. They said they got a more quote certain and consistent marker then viability. The lousy standard you're currently using. So what this does with his arrow that is been finely crafted to be the arrow is launched through the court system to deliver the fatal blow to the heart of Roe versus Wade. We stay move to protect ability line from viability, which is miles away all the way down to heartbeat which is inches away from marble.

Janet is way you assess this when when you're speaking of hard beeping detected roughly what week of pregnancy are you talking about right now with our technology the way it is. If you use an internal ultrasound you're looking at about six or seven weeks. I said that's 95% of abortions are performed after that so I could meet.

It could be earlier than that I don't really publicize background I'm quoting Dr. Wilkie is six weeks and resend the vast majority of of abortions or are then performed after that time, Tom Yuan said the vast majority of abortions would not be affected by this. But if if heartbeat is detected six weeks simply inaccurate. 95 Report Take Pl. after not even say the status you know it. Probably the other way around. The boat that was just to be clear so you're saying that 95% of abortions take place before six weeks window liquid. Only God knows. Remember we are now we have with IP after throwing million with abortifacient drugs there, destroying millions and those are certainly technically mostly before six week we have hormonal birth control would deprive already created little babies from surviving because the prevent them from implanting in the mother's womb and an outspoken, only God knows the real number.

I don't really want something, let's just say it St. have to babies that are being aborted about. This is not a numbers game. Janet look online. I think doing it doesn't it because it sacrifices the only people that argue against abortion on demand and therefore abortion on demand, going incremental I disagree. I'll tell you why this already had my I know was a woman who brought came up to me. I she heard about the heartbeat because of the publicity of the bringing in the ultrasounds bearing the Ohio hearing room in the statehouse there and she said that her friend asked her to driver to the abortion mill because because she wanted an abortion and she said I couldn't do it once I found out about the baby heartbeat. I couldn't do it in. Months later she showed me the picture of this little boy named Aiden that he is alive today because of the heartbeat bill and that was before even passed the committee. We know this is saving lives. Jason Raper Camargo saw only about little Bailey Duncan was saved because the mother found out about the baby's heart because of an informed consent provision that was not struck down while the protection what we know already stating live or certain Tom okay look technical heartbeat girl standard for protect okay and not because the middle of nowhere in the air you're talking about a human made that is not even capable of detecting human heart functioning. From its earliest point of creation with create what you think the abortion is one of her bells out of little babies because they are part. Whether you act dumb and in the heartbeat bills. All they do give the executioner the power to determine whether or not there is a heartbeat. Why would you trust them and why would you trust an instrument can't even the activity of the human heart from earlier functioning beating is not the criteria are right.

Are they human being made in the image the light of God are they are they a person after the 14th amendment forced it does now.

Okay Not about Amy Cody. Derek does, I'm going to follow precedent I am obligated court precedent that of true morality that to the equal protection requirements work so okay Amy. Amy Amy said she would actually overturn precedents that that need to be overturned that she would do it in every case but she's not at first to to reviewing precedents and I think that's an important point.

But let me say this is a hard hold on just thought if you don't mind a break. We come back just let Janet Tom and I will hear from Tom was a strategy.

How do we abolish abortion and then Janet what's the significance of any Barry coming in. It's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael.

2015 listed by Newsmax is one of America's 100 most influential pro-life advocates and he is the author of the equal protection for posterity resolution Janet Porter called one of the five most dangerous religious right leaders and trumps America is the author and champion of the heartbeat bill. Her book on the subject heartbeat away. Janet says with this bill. Not only can save many many lives of babies but this will ultimately lead to the evolution of abortion in America. Tom says that this approach is moral in itself, and that it accepts the fact that babies can be killed, to a certain point, so were right in the midst of this discussion, and right before the break, Tom, and made the comment that justices courses Cavanaugh and now Connie Barrett would accept the precedent of Roe V Wade and Janet. You were responding to that before the break, so back to you Janet well there were a few things I wanted to respond human and that it this week we got to wake you read the parking lot. I urge people to go to the number two action God work for F to a stock or you can download and take a look at the model will safeguard in their hoarseness doesn't do what require you. We get legal remedy. For example, if a woman is not a form.

She's got legal standing flow in and out and pursue that legally if they're performing abortions the same hotel we could hear their heartbeat but we were looking from across the room following the standard medical procedure and closing down if they violate the law were Fallon and one that when they lose their medical license. That's the bottom line, but I think the study one of the legislators in Georgia, heartbeat law, there very well. There was a bill in your heart. 3850 and she explained it.

I think very well and said because the bill in Georgia wasn't perfect there were those of the movement from the right to life movement that actually here's what you spent one half of the heartbeat bill Georgia right to life with your feet is the abolitionist arm of the of the of the movement by phone but don't let his heart but went by his own hypocrisy. Georgia, like nature to cut the baby.

In other words, like Solomon Bowlby and a few women know what you think you can have the baby oral will is your your troopers that you want to be that meeting with your real father rather have that meeting with Grace by someone else and be killed brutally by abortion. I think that's really where the place where we have the ability to protect only lot nearly every child facing abortion or a whole bunch of we have the ability to do that right now that we've been doing for the last year we passed and heartbeat bills.

As we mentioned 29 are in the you ready to go.

I went back to report much like the Eighth Circuit better marked moved from miles away from viability, the heartbeat, which is inches away, in which case we protect nearly every child make it easier to go back and get the rest holding back time or anybody else from any other method that they think is great and so instead of throwing rocks people you agree with.

I don't think the incremental lifelike millimeter approach is a good one. But you know what, I'm not going lock that amount not stand in the way is what they do, they may protect the baby may educate the people about the truth but I think you Tom go for. If you think you got a better approach than just do it or not stopping you but quit for people that are actually panning lot secular life talk, you need to tell the rest of the pro-life movement that because in fact we have had tablet built numerous states, including my own seven years ago. A perfectly pure declarant abortion is murder. Bill Rupp every bit of permission out of her coat to kill babies and was blocked by the pro-life leaders in the Republican Party, and it would last Wednesday when the blood by me. I support to testify publicly for them and what I think in Ohio when white light testified right next to Planned Parenthood against the bill that would protect more babies than any other build Tom, but here's the problem I want to get in the minute you know you you have to for the break to know what your plan and I bet you break that book in row itself. Harold Weddington, the lead attorney for row day that you know in our stated facts of the offense is not murder, and abortion was. The only love that Harry Harry Blackmun implement note 54 Grove the way you spelled out the reason why they were not grow the way that they did was because Texas did not treat the unborn baby. Like any other person in terms of their laws and punishing killing that so if we if we temperamentally pass the bill. The best thing we are doing and the best thing were doing in the court is going right back where we started with grow. It was bad legislating that led to row in the first place. So it will talk somebody just just this then I will get your plan and keep going back and forth as much time as we have here if yes, these heartbeat bills can then be the thing that gets up to the Supreme Court. You know the there of protest appealed whatever challenge gets up to the Supreme Court. If that could pave the way for the overthrowing overturning of Roe V Wade. Okay, go ahead. Please tell us what Dr. Dr. Brown and For the very simple reason that it doesn't even address row in the first. The main the main issue and Rohit is the child a person or not. Okay heartbeat. Bill says no they're not. II read by Iowa heartbeat so I read everything. One of these bills. There's no punishment on the woman that was what the Roe court on their hat on woman doesn't even be the one who hires a hitman doesn't even get any punishment and really the hitman only receive the flap on the red.

The best you're going to get out of that is the full-blooded process all over again let let me just quickly layout you asked me what I distilled. Tom was sick and you'll do that and then Janet, I want to get back to you on the question of, could this is hard becomes challenging because the Supreme Court could that lead to the overturning of rebates. We will get back to that but Tom, go ahead. Layout your practical strategy was very simple. You path what light that meets the equal protection required protect everyone knew it will dry and we are working for and what they will be when the pro-life incorporated stop walking away sometime just to be clear, I feel that your biggest opposition that's hindering you from getting the bills through is from our own side reset all part of the problem. There's not even any question about that absolutely sows you so that legislators in different states would be willing to pass these bills which are which. Too many Americans with a radical but obviously the goal that we all share.

You feel that they will will they do it, but the pro-life movement wasn't standing in the in the way we we have had. I think about eight have built the only day we got a hearing out of the pro-life Republican last year we had over 500 people there testifying on behalf of good abolition bill.

The rolling I people of the fight against it. The committee claimed to be heavily pro-life.

What they did.

The lead even move 1 inch out of that committee. So I agree that the enemy that were facing and I will chapter in my book, I really think you'd enjoy my book in your address I'll send you want to call the enemy within.

They are the ones that are blocking pro-life build including heartbeat bills and including as you described, but here's the deal on what we gotta do. We can expose that that the evil within them and I think we need to do that but I think it if you say you are your your strategy is the way to go. I say do it.

Show me where you're doing it and I'll join you but until then we got a bill that are passed in state after state after state, and let me tell you why I believe it's going to be upheld by the Supreme Court.

It was another bill that I know you disagree with. It was a building that I was fortunate enough to pass that the first the first one with the ban on partial-birth abortion.

I educate a lot of people didn't protect a lot of babies but it did something that we anticipate. It went up to the Supreme Court in Gonzalez D. Carhart what what they did. They got an undisputed finding of fact I'm not sure you heard of this in my book as well and the undisputed finding of fact that they found out in that partial-birth abortion Supreme Court case-based debt that there is a living fetus is just the Latin word which means young one developing human unborn child. There is a living child from the point are you ready for Supreme Court set in Gonzalez he Carhart a living child from the point of detectable heartbeat. It was not disputed by the parole board.

Everyone agreed on this. So now we actually got away in the wall of weight we got a way to kick this thing down because David made it and it's now 888 legal precedent. You gotta detectable heartbeat and unborn child back child is a living fetus. By the way, medically speaking, if you got a heartbeat and unborn baby, which as we know it is that it actually occurs between 18 and 21 days before the mother even knows that she's pregnant but you can detect point that child have a 95 to 98% likelihood of survival to live birth, which is precisely the parameters of the Supreme Court that were allowed to protect the final agree with judicial legislating, but from the bench but we we are where we are. We deal with the hand we can get. And what we've been given is a way to to to pierce the heart grow with medical science. No one knows who bought me in and settle Janet bringing in ultrasounds in the hearing room and or gimmicks in her stunt camera on me and I said that to defend your position. You have to deny sign, you gotta run from technology to establish that the Iona closure strategy with your strategy, but the problem it hadn't worked yet until then, try everything I can to rescue as many kids as I can and minimally go back and I want to get more and then on to get more until we keep we stop the killing and I would propose you, Tom, is the way to stop the killing. It is not so much the throat rock. The people that are on your team that it's time with you that want full protection for babies we can expose that those are blocking your time to build but but I'm not one of what what we want to do work together if if if you got bill you asked me to testify, I would actually do it.

I've done it before and I know when I testified preconception bill probably 15 years ago it was right for life opposing us on the other side don't know what we've got is fighting together were great, Zach is so Tom looking John itself. We stand with Janet or can you not like Tom, it's the light a fire with your host activist, author internationals and Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 64 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown or in Janet Porter heart beat away the name of the book and Tom halfling atomic folks want to find out about what you're doing how they can get involved. What's the best place to go to best website to go to where all of the back of our work. Again, the abortion idea equal.

Equal protection for They can also go to help government.US as well. Okay, equal plus posterity… Good is a long URL equal protection for God. It equal protection for so Tom can you say yes I have a larger goal and I believe it's the only one that's righteous in God's sight. But if I can help Janet. I will would you just feel that in conscience as a compromise for you like I made up what number of years ago that I would no longer report anyone in any public policy that violate equal protection under the law.

The bill does not meet that that support any bill that made the moral otherwise forget it. We have to begin to impose that on block on everything we do we have to boring politician who violate that in any way shape or form at the church in this country have the power to stop abortion but the only path to doing it is restoring our foundation of principal and that the ball is all wrapped up in those that break equal protection for posterity. Got it. And Tom, do you feel that returning may be waived will be enough to push back the abortion culture in America or you feel that that's just one piece in a much bigger puzzle overturning Roe is an art. Note that Ro is not a law or court are not empowered by or can't make laws or beetle law is nothing to overturn it.

An old lifted and moral port opinion is 47 years old.

Everybody who voted on it, is dead and gone to meet their God, though there's nothing to overturn. We have to have moral and constitutional would place them and we have to stand by and if the courts don't like it held Supreme Court go jump in the Potomac on that equal protection for website right at the very top of the middle of the away about judicial supremacy and why were not supposed to be following the listed and constitutional edicts. Of course that's not good for the government that our forefathers gave one other question before I go back to Janet's Tom, why do you feel that those on the left or so hysterical about the possibility of overturning movie wage so worried that it's going to happen if your judgment. All it really doesn't matter.

I you know there's a and they think that that Bernard means something better, really doesn't. We need to stop even thinking that way, we need to stop making our political and governmental action forms of the soul idea that we live in a judicial oligarchy that of a representative republic premised on the moral law, so we have to a larger level than just fight the judicial activism that were face yeah Janet. Please send response. Go ahead.

I want to say I really very much agree with much of what Tom is saying and that yeah you got you got judges that are acting as legislators are out of control on track. I work with my my mentor Lakeville Schlafly. We are just bill that was done to restrain the judges that restrain the judges bill because the thinking introduced no longer going to be in Congress because national like like quote this man is been a champion America champion of life and the sponsor of the heartbeat bill calling what I greet the bottom line is, how many live estate you can be pure for you to be effective and and I think that what we can do is we can we can get as close as we can to our goal but not not rock that everybody could fall short of purity Ro should not be treated as the law of the land, but the fact of the matter. It badly.

There is an authority figure.

The president is not told judges to jump in the Potomac is much as I would've liked that that happened. What we gotta do is protect as many as we can.

And you know when I first first introduced as heartbeat bill back in 2011. One of the things was an article that really stunned me and and and said that the Cold War here the heartbeat bill more than they fear the personhood of the abolitionist approach. Why well I remember when I was part of of protecting babies trying to protect babies on about South Dakota from conception what they would do in the last last week. The campaign they bring in all the blood money and they'd run commercials about woman women and back alleys and that they were glob of spell takes away defense arguments. What were doing with the heartbeat bill talking about a single seller glob filled people's mind, which is also human being made in the image of God. Not discounting that in mind of many. It doesn't matter what were saying is, in this case we got a fellow human being with a beating heart. You know what the barnacle showed in his movement mode, you know, there is movement work for decades for four more than 40 years and what I found is that there is never in my opinion, been a bill that protects this many baby note, every child is RP can be heard and and has this much public support we found from a George Barnett scientific poll that 7/10 in America believe that if a doctor can detect the heartbeat of an unborn baby back baby should be legally protected 86% Republicans. Here's a shocker. 55% of Democrat yeah a majority of Democrats say listen, I agree with the heartbeat bill because I'm not cold and heartless. I understand if there's a heartbeat there's life. Everybody gets that we've never been to a funeral of somebody with a beating heart. Ellen Cold War Scott Anthony for the heartbeat, not a sign of life. I just start start ripping down the talk heart monitors in hospital with a duty because they're not there for decoration. Everybody gets it.

It's the heartbeat universally recognized indicator of life. It's not. It's not the endgame but he kept just inches from our goal and when that happens, even if we don't get conception built what we had just the presence of a heartbeat that we get every child because that heart is beating it 18 to 21 days before the woman even know she's pregnant and so I'm staying, Tom. If you think you have a better approach. I think do it do it but don't those that are trying something else right so thank you Janet Tom. Glad you get the last word in okay well I been around for a long time to walk the parole board that they're not afraid of heartbeat goals are not afraid of any regulatory goals. They know the record that Nandu burdening standard and they know that none of these regulatory bills even talent that they don't even challenge the basis for Roe V Wade went to his is the child. Indeed, a human being made in the likeness of God and therefore, do they have to be protected by our equal protection requirement Sosa Tom again, the path forward in your view, is to get what kind of bills passes the state-by-state.

How does this happen abolition will go straight to the murder code you define the child from their creation as a human being. You put them right with every other being in for the murder code and then you go through any for about a decade worth of pro-life that are on the book that, in effect, and with and then you can kill the baby get rid of those.

And then you will have cured your legislative and your your codebook problem doesn't solve your problem and solve the problem that you still need cheap executives who will actually keep their oath to provide equal protection under the lock and shutdown is killing will and and and Tom and there's a danger to bill like that to strike down every ProLiant like law that a state of patents that were going to just to make it murder than what they're going to do 1/2 that strike down the murder part in there and also uphold the part that strike every other pro-life lot is a big danger that you run the risk of admitting everything ever done anything interesting.

The other part of what I you have to ignore that we have to have pro-lifers have had massive control in the politically for decades, both federally and and a vast majority of the state to start protecting the babies of God in our cost diffusion require that the court just just a question strategically is just about a minute left. Janet said that Americans will recognize a beating heart protect that baby do you think because retirement voting for people who without gonna now the rule on these things were cast their votes in state legislatures, lasers and things like that do you think that America is at a point where the hearts returned sufficiently that the recognize the importance of a bill like this and go for the accurate no were not even at a point where about the glory of the arriving with people were not even it that they would get the credit God it don't not pay all right would list if we if we can't get to the finish line in a million old 0 to 61 a week while we take steps to get there and it is incremental bills are insufficient. Let's look at the heartbeat bill because it is the biggest incremental builder is an and where we are looking at right now we can't lose sight of what what's most important at this moment you control your hands, as they have what was me and the world is doomed. I I say that God has given us a chance at mercy that he's given us a man whose death I believe in the right to life, I will sign bills. I will write my children that fill Burke's office is yes, I'm so sorry we are out of time. I appreciate both joining me friends go back, watch this. Listen to this evaluate the arguments. Let stand for life

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