BREAKING: Federal Judge Blocks Texas Heartbeat Law

This is Jay Sekulow breaking news a federal judge blocks the Texas heartbeat law. Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever.

This is Sekulow. In a strongly worded 113 page ruling, Judge Robert Pittman said the law was blatantly unconstitutional. From the moment SB 8 went into effect, women have been unlawfully prevented from exercising control over their lives. We want to hear from you.

Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. Now in a statement, the Biden administration cautioned that the fight has only just begun. Texas, of course, will appeal and the Supreme Court is taking up that Mississippi abortion ban in December that is likely going to determine not only the fate of this law in Texas, but other states as well. And now your host, Jay Sekulow.

Hey everybody, welcome to the broadcast and we've got breaking news. And that is a US District Court judge in, uh, for Texas, in Northern District of Texas that carries Dallas in that area. Issued an order, 103 page order, striking down the heartbeat bill that was put in place by the Texas legislature that protected fetal life. now, the unborn child's life. Now what's interesting about this case, signed into law on May 19, 2021, and then, uh, it was immediately challenged, but as you recall on September 4th, when President Trump re- crashes, it was a one year first, just a month and a couple of weeks ago, the Supreme Court denied in a five to four application a stay of the injunctive relief and let it stay in effect. So then what happened was Planned Parenthood went back to the D.U.S. District Court judge and said, hey, basically, we think the Supreme Court, you know, didn't address this properly.

You address it properly. And the addressing of it properly in this particular case was this judge, in their view, this judge striking it down. But I think it's important to understand what this law actually does. So our senior counsel, CeCe Heil, who's my co-counsel also in our case where we represent the state of Montana and a huge case on informed consent for abortion is joining us. And CeCe, let's explain quickly here what this law put forth.

Sure. So in this law, basically, Texas stated that once a heartbeat is detected, it's unlawful for a doctor to perform an abortion. So the catch is it's not the state that's going to enforce it.

It's going to be an individual that enforces it. And that's what's caused the problem is there's really no one to enjoin. They can't enjoin the state.

Who do they enjoin? And that's the problem. It stops abortions once a heartbeat is detected. But the enforcement puts the enforcement in the hands of an individual. Which of course is problematic.

I mean, the idea that this would happen. But what I think is fascinating here is you've got a series of pro-life cases that are coming into effect. And when I say that, you've got the big case in December, which could literally decide the fate of Roe versus Wade and probably will decide the fate of Roe versus Wade quite frankly. And that will have a repercussions on all of the cases that we're involved in. I mean, all of them across the board, including the one that we're doing in Montana, which is an informed consent case. So you've got the informed consent case, the fetal heartbeat bill, you got the Dobbs case. So I mean, the abortion issue right now, I think Logan, it is fair to say is front and center in the courts right now. And the American Center for Law and Justice obviously intimately involved since we are handling the case for the state of Montana.

Yeah. I think we need to discuss this as we come back. If you have questions related to this, give us a call 1-800-684-3110. I think a lot of people, including myself, question these laws and go, well, how does this work when Roe still is in existence? How do all of these different things are managed from the states? So I think we should talk about that when we get back as well, discuss further how these laws can impact life when you still have the overarching current Roe versus Wade opinion. And I'm curious to kind of break that down. If you have questions related to this, I'd like you to give us a call at 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. Also check out the work of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. If you're watching on Facebook, I encourage you to share. As you know, Facebook had quite the outage a few days ago and it's still having some issues here and there. So what helps is if you share this post right now, this live feed helps get into more people's feeds.

And obviously the show will grow from there. So we'd appreciate that if you're watching on Facebook and obviously if you're watching on any of the platforms, make sure you're sharing those as well. If you're on YouTube, hit the thumbs up, click subscribe and check out all the great work of the ACLJ and the great content we put out each and every day at ACLJ.org. Once again, 1-800-684-3110 to give us a call. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. We're decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms. That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side.

If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.

Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists. The ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Secula. We are taking your phone calls at 1-800-684-3110, discussing the current breaking news that has come out, which is that a judge, a federal judge, has blocked what's been talked about pretty controversially, the Texas heartbeat law in terms of abortion.

So that has come out just as we were going on the air. And Dad, it's a topic that we're obviously deeply involved in. And you asked an interesting question, Logan, and that is, how do these states regulate abortion when Roe v. Wade is still technically the law of the land? Roe did not give a free pass to abortion. It was not this idea where you could just have abortion on demand at any time. The court has recognized, especially I'd say over the last 20 years, more increasingly anyways, the fact that this is a unique procedure, that it's the life of an unborn child that's being taken here.

It severs the bond between the mother and that child permanently, and that there's consequences to that. So Texas has their unique approach to it. As I said in South Dakota, they want more of an informed consent, so there's no coercion of abortion.

That's what we're dealing with. And then as the piece just indicated that we just played for those that are watching our social media platforms, the fact is, and I think people need to understand this, it's all going to be dependent really soon here on the decision in the Dobbs case, because that will impact whether in fact Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. The underpinnings of Roe have been challenged significantly, and the significance of that challenge against Roe v. Wade I just think is now a 50-year-old precedent, but it was based on what is admittedly now bad science. You cannot really argue that the unborn child is not a human being.

I know Wes Smith is here, and he's a colonel in the United States Army, but he's also a chaplain. And I think that the struggle that women have with abortion, I mean, I understand the emotions and all of this, but we're talking about two lives here, not just one. Absolutely. And this is what a 48-year battle over the sanctity of human life, period, in spite of the talking points of the pro-abortion industry. That is the real issue. It's not just about a woman's right to choose. It's not about a constitutional right that was actually contrived through some judicial acrobatics. It's not just about a woman's choice.

It's about the life of another person, and that is the person inside that woman's body, and that makes it a sacred issue. It's not just a legal issue. This is a moral issue, Jay.

You're exactly right. It is a moral issue. But I want to go to Andy accountable, because the fact that a precedent is on the books doesn't mean that precedent is right. I can think about Plessy versus Ferguson and Separate But Equal, Dred Scott. Black Americans were not entitled to be recognized as full American. They were three-fifths for accounting purposes and even for census.

These are the karamatsu where the Japanese Americans were interned. So this idea that the courts already decided that that's it, it's just not constitutional history. No, that's correct, Jay. The fact that there may be law currently outstanding created by the courts doesn't mean that that law is correct. I tend to agree entirely with Justice Thomas, who has said time and again, find me in the Constitution of the United States where it says someone has a right to an abortion. Well, you're going to look in vain in the Constitution of the United States to find that, because it doesn't exist.

And Justice Thomas has repeatedly stated that it has not existed and does not exist. And states have the rights to fashion laws with respect to the creation of abortion procedures in their particular jurisdictions. But the fact that it happens to be the law at present doesn't mean that it's necessarily going to stand.

Courts have been overturned, as you point, karamatsu, the internment of Japanese citizens, I mean Japanese Americans, Plessy versus Ferguson, blatantly incorrect, decided by the Supreme Court, reversed years later. So these are going to play out in the courts. And we see this starting out with this manifesto by this tendentious judge in Texas, who has had an agenda, obviously, and has let out his vitriol in 113 pages, which I hope the Fifth Circuit reverses.

I think, look, all of this is going to depend on the outcome in the Hobbs case. And Cece, when I take a look at that, I mean, really, even though what we're doing in Montana, which is more informed consent than the right to abortion, because there's nothing in the Montana law that stops an abortion, it just requires counseling. But the Dobbs case is going to reset, you know, has a potential, I should say at least, to reset abortion jurisprudence in the United States.

We are the most liberal country on abortion anywhere in the world, the United States is. Yeah, so the Dobbs case is a great opportunity because to reset Roe v. Wade, it goes directly against Roe v. Wade. It talks about, yes, the state has a compelling interest to protect a baby's life, but when does that compelling interest adhere? And so the case talks about viability of the child, and it really goes to the heart of Roe v. Wade. And as we've discussed, if Roe v. Wade gets overturned, it really then just goes to the states to decide when are we going to protect life, at what time is that, at 15 weeks, is that at a heartbeat, when does that baby's life deserve protection? I keep reminding everyone that the underpinnings of Roe, which have been questioned by even pro-abortion scholars, that the underpinnings of Roe, the right to abortion coming out of the penumbra of the due process clause of the Bill of Rights, I mean, this was made up jurisprudence. And then the fact that, I mean, and it's clear to anybody, that the court, the medicine has just changed, and the process of the country and the thought process of the country has changed here.

But let me ask you this to fan Bennett. We also at the same time have going on, and I think this is important for people to understand, a Capitol Hill fight on the Hyde Amendment. So we've got a lot of abortion issues front and center. Yeah, all of these fights in the states, Jay, really are set against the backdrop of the debate that's taking place in Washington, DC. There's an all-out assault right now, that's what I would call it, on the state efforts to not just regulate abortion, Jay.

In many cases, like the one you were just talking about with Cece, many of these efforts are actually for the benefit of the mother who is seeking abortion, just making sure that she has the information about the procedure, whether it's an ultrasound, whether it's making sure that the facilities have certain safety standards, or Jay, maybe just assuring that if something goes wrong in the procedure, they have the ability to admit that woman to a hospital. Those are the types of laws that are taking place in those state legislatures. And Logan talked about how the states have different standards.

Well, that's appropriate in this situation, but Washington, DC is actually trying to stop that, Jay. In addition to the Hyde Amendment fight that you're talking about, the House of Representatives has actually already passed a bill. They call it the Women's Health Protection Act, but it's really the Abortion on Demand Act. Jay, what that bill would do, if it were enacted, would say all of those state laws, not just like the ones in Texas and Mississippi that we're talking about, but even the ones that say you have to show women certain information, or you have to be able to admit her to a hospital. Jay, it would wipe those laws off the books, and it would say to every state across the country, you can't enact any of those restrictions going forward. So that's sort of the DC backdrop against which all these states are engaging.

Yeah, and if you don't think elections have consequences, by the way, I'm going to point this fact out and have Andy comment on it. If you don't think elections have consequences, this suit brought by Planned Parenthood, guess who was engaged in it now? The United States Department of Justice. So in an election, Andy, things change, and now you've got the Justice Department taking its resources to defend, as if Planned Parenthood doesn't have enough resources and can't defend itself, to defend. Yeah, I find it ironic, Jay, that the United States Department of Justice, under this administration, under Biden, has taken up exactly the opposite approach that the administration took up under President Trump, but has to help this Planned Parenthood, poor Planned Parenthood. They don't have the resources, they don't have the ability, they don't have the lawyers to be able to do this. Nonsense.

They have all that. But now they go to the Department of Justice under Merrick Garland, who, God forbid, was nominated by President Obama to be on the Supreme Court, but Mitch McConnell put an end to that. He is now heading up the Department of Justice and bringing these lawsuits basically on behalf of, in the name of Planned Parenthood, although it says United States of America, and then elections do have consequences because the judge, let's not forget, the judge who authored this opinion is an Obama appointee. He's got an agenda. I read this opinion this morning.

It's 113 pages long. And one of the things that disturbed me very much in the opinion is he says other courts may disagree, but this court will not sanction a woman's right not to have an abortion when she wants to under these circumstances. Well, I ask myself, who are these other courts? Perhaps you're referring Judge Pittman to the Supreme Court of the United States that denied a stay. Don't you realize you are an inferior judicial tribunal? I don't think so. Well, we have time to play.

I think we do. This is what Merrick Garland said when he announced the lawsuit. The act is clearly unconstitutional under longstanding Supreme Court precedent.

Those precedents hold, in the words of Planned Parenthood versus Casey, that, quote, regardless of whether exceptions are made for particular circumstances, a state may not prohibit any woman from making the ultimate decision to terminate her pregnancy before viability. Well, there you have it, so this is who you're fighting now, the government. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely an opinionated, one-sided view of all of this, but that's okay.

That's why you have the work of the ACLJ and people like us who are there going to stand up for your thoughts and your freedoms. If you want to give us a call, 1-800-684-3110, that's 1-800-684-3110. We'll be taking calls, and we also have guests coming up later on. In the next segment, we have Mike Pompeo joining us here on Sekulow, so we've got a full panel today, plus Mike Pompeo in the next segment.

We'll be right back. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive, and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support, and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, land parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena, and we have an exceptional track record of success, but here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you, and if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org Welcome back to Secula. We are now joined by one of our special counsels here and senior counsels for global affairs at the ACLJ. You've heard me here all the time.

Secretary Mike Pompeo is joining us. Thanks for having us. Thanks for coming.

It's great to be with you. Dad, I'll let you take it from here. Hey Mike.

Yeah, thanks Logan. We're going to get to you. You've got a brand new article up at ACLJ.org I want to talk about in a moment, but we've been talking about the situation in Texas on this abortion case where the Supreme Court denied a stay five to four and yet the judge, when the Department of Justice entered into the case, issues 103 or 104 page opinion that basically says, I don't care what other courts say. This is unconstitutional. And then we've got the Dobbs case, of course, which is going to decide probably the fate of Roe versus Wade. But this issue of life, we're representing the ACLJ is representing Governor Noem in the state of South Dakota in an informed consent case that's going to the U S court of appeals for the eighth circuit. But you look at all of this happening simultaneously and the fact that Roe may actually go and there'll be some other framework put in place if Roe does go. But the abortion issue seems to still be front and center. But the point I wanted to make is during your administration, which was a pro-life administration, things got done for the pro-life cause that had never happened under any Republican President. And in just one change of an election, you've now got the administration, the Biden administration suing to, to declare this law.

They don't think Planned Parenthood could do this by themselves. They have to have the United States enter these cases now. Jay, we, we, in everything we did believe that protecting every human life, treating every human being with the dignity they deserve because they are made in the image of a creator was important. It was important as a domestic matter to make sure we supported States who were trying to get their laws right. You see this in Dobbs, um, you see what Texas is doing.

We did it around the world. We made sure that your taxpayer dollars, the American people's money didn't go to supporting groups that were referring to abortion or funding abortion and your points well taken within a few weeks of taking office. The Biden administration turned this all on its head and now is probably the most, uh, pro abortion administration that we have seen in at least 30 or 40 years or certainly in the post row timeframe. You know, my second thought, as you recount what's taking places, we watched this spending legislation three and a half trillion dollars before they're trying to take the height amendment out. This is something that was, was sacrosanct in both political parties for so long with respect to how abortions could not be supported by us taxpayer money.

This is a pretty radical set of ideas. I think the American people are, are seeing through this and the reason I think you're seeing so much work to protect life take place in our courts today is because I think the American people by and large can see the horrors of abortion. They can see that leaves the women who have the abortions, uh, from a mental standpoint and they can see that this is the right course of the right course of our nation.

No other country has as many late terms abortions as the United States does. We should, uh, we should work to eliminate that. Okay.

I'm going to say I appreciate that and I agree 100% I want to switch gears. You've had an article up on ACLJ, Donald called, there's a crisis on the Southern border and it's only getting worse. You bring a, you brought up months ago that our border was overwhelmed at the breaking point. Things do not seem to be getting any better. Your wife, the reports are that up to Mike, 12,000 migrants, I mean, have just been released within the United States and the habit that just brings on communities and let alone the people that have been released, it shows just like I think either a callous disregard for the humanity involved or just a lack of understanding of the scope and nature of the, of the issue that's at play here.

J the ACLJ as you know, right? You all have done such great work on these two issues. We just talked about the protection of human life and now we're talking about protecting the United States from the threat that comes from having wide open borders, literally chaos at our Southern border. I think the number far exceeds 12,000 I, I understand that there are still thousands and thousands of Asians that are making their way to our Southern border.

There's no reason to believe the Biden administration is going to do so much as even attempt to more than maybe slow them down for a few hours. This is a national security risk. I've written about the fact that now we have more fentanyl coming across our border. This is going to be enormously destructive to small communities all across America, including in my home state of Kansas.

These are, these are, these are things that I never thought I would see happen to United States because they reflect such an utter disregard for the American people to open those borders and not to secure American sovereignty presents a real, real risk to families all across this country, not just the border States, but all across the country. You know, it's interesting, Mike also, when you talk about the, what's going at the border, you had the vice President talk about the root causes and, and she listed it as a root cause for this migration crisis that we're seeing. And they don't like calling it a crisis, but that's what it is. Global warming and climate change. And I'm thinking to myself, do you think there is, if you took, if you talk to all 12,000 people that are on our borders right now and said, are you leaving your country of origin because of climate change? There's not one person that's going to say, Oh yeah, the climate change thing is a really big deal for me.

I want to leave. But that's, they think that's a root cause. They're so committed to political correctness. They're ignoring the reality of what's going on.

No, she's of the left. They are of the left. They are so disconnected from the, the, the gritty reality that is our border and the work that needs to be done to protect these border communities.

Remember this same vice President, just as an aside, just same vice President who nodded her head when a student said that the state of Israel was an apartheid country, right? This is a progressive last effort to undermine the central thesis of our founding, our nation. And what you see at the borders as a part of that, they, they simply reject the idea that America is an exceptional country founded on a set of very important ideas. And they think, Nope, we we're the problem.

Let's just open our borders because we need to let these folks into a tone for the sins of our past. You know, Mike, I found it a stunning, astonishing and troubling that when that student made those derogatory comments about the only democracy of the type in the Middle East, that even resembles, a true democracy. We've got a lot of allies in the Middle East, so I'm not, I'm not, you know, not every country can have Jeffersonian democracy.

I get it. But Israel has been a democratic state and I use that in the proper term as far as the way the government is structured and it's been our strongest ally and for then the vice President of the United States to get a question like that and not say, Hey, now wait a minute. Israel protects rights more than anybody else in the region. Israel's our vital ally on national security issues.

But she could not get herself to do it. And what does that tell us? Yeah, it tells us at her core, this is, these are the things she believes in. While she may have tried to call some of her supporters in the Jewish community in the aftermath of that event, we know that in the moment she spoke the truth about what she really believes that this is a, that Israel's right to exist is, is fundamentally inconsistent with peace and stability in the Middle East, that the Jewish homeland is somehow fraught with the baggage that she brings to it instead of being a noble democracy in the Middle East where Arabs, where, uh, where Muslims is, uh, Jews and Christians can all practice their faith. Jay, this is, this is the one nation there that has the capacity for religious freedom and the one democracy, and they're an important security partner for the United States. And we had a student make a comment about Israel, the fact that it was a terrible country, an occupying nation and apartheid country. Our vice President simply said, well, you, you, you're entitled to your truth as if there was some truth to what the student had said.

It's a, it's frankly disgusting. Terrible choice of words, terrible, terrible moment for American diplomacy. Mike Pompeo, senior council for global affairs for the American center for law and justice. Mike Pompeo also served as the director of the central intelligence agency, secretary of state, member of Congress.

Uh, you know, what a background and credentials. Thanks for being part of the team, Mike. It really means a lot to us. And I want to thank our donors for making that happen, but thank you for your insight here. Yes, sir.

All right. We'll be back with more on secular. If you don't get us on your local network, if you're listening over the air on radio, you can find us or even on Sirius XM, you can find us broadcasting live right now for the next half hour across the world on Facebook. Just search for J secular on ACLJ.org on YouTube, on the ACLJ YouTube channel, and make sure you like subscribe, do all that.

And we'll be back with another half hour secular. We're taking your calls. Stay on hold of your call for decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena, the American center for law and justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work.

Become a member today, ACLJ.org. Talking about freedom, talking about freedom, we will fight for the right to live in freedom. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow, and now your host, Jay Sekulow. Well, what an interesting half hour, it's already been the first half hour if you missed it. We had a great discussion. We're going to have some more of that discussion. A big day for the abortion issue because the US district court judge in Texas declared the heartbeat bill unconstitutional. I want to go right back to Cece Heil, our senior counsel, I want her to explain what's at issue in that case, and then maybe discuss some of the other cases we've got pending right now, including that we're representing the state of South Dakota in a informed consent law on abortion that is going to the US court of appeals for the eighth circuit right below the Supreme court. So that's a big, big case. So Cece, let's again talk about what this heartbeat bill does in Texas.

Sure. So the heartbeat bill in Texas basically banned abortions after a heartbeat is detected. And of course, Planned Parenthood is up in arms against that because they fight against things. Even if you want sterile operating conditions, they fight against that. So of course they're going to fight against banning abortions when a heartbeat is detected. The issue is a little bit different because instead of the state enforcing this law, this Texas law gave the enforcement arm to individuals so they can come against a doctor who performs abortion after a heartbeat is detected or anybody who helps and aids in that abortion. So that's where we landed in this case of who are you going to actually enjoin? And this judge, this district judge decided that he was going to hand down an injunction and he was going to enjoin actually the state courts and the state clerks, um, from enforcing this law. Let's go ahead.

So even though the, even though the Supreme court, even though the Supreme court set in a five to four decision, they're not going to enjoin the enforcement of the law, but this judge decided to go ahead. Logan. Let's go ahead and take a call. Let's go to line two.

Go to Jamal, North Carolina. You're on the air. Hi Joel.

Hi guys. Um, thank you for all that you do. Thank you for standing up for American values, for Christian values.

Well, I've got the wrong state stand up for Christian values, American values and fighting for the state of Israel. I use your information a lot as I'm sure a lot of other people do. You guys made a big impact, impact on my life, but all that being said, question is how can a life be terminated after a heartbeat has been detected? Wes, you have actually been interesting.

Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, Jamal. I mean, a heartbeat is indicative that there is a human life. When a person's heart stops beating, they are declared dead.

This heartbeat means there is life. And there's a reason, Jay, that 30 states have fetal homicide laws on the books so that if a pregnant woman is killed, the person who killed her can be charged with two counts of murder or two counts of manslaughter. And there's a reason for that.

It's an obvious reason. And that is, it is a living human being. It's not just a blob of tissue.

You know, I got to say something also, and Logan, this is just fact. I mean, in any other circumstance, if you have a heartbeat in a, in a person and that person's life was terminated there, there, you know, there could be emergency situations and then you have the incest and rape issues and all that. But under normal circumstances, that would be the taking of a human life. In fact, if there's a vehicle vehicular homicide and the woman is carrying a child and they both die in the, during the course of the accident, it is two counts, Andy, two counts. I was going to say, Jay, I've tried a lot of murder cases as an assistant district attorney. And the only way I look at this is it's plain and simple murder. You've got a heartbeat. What's the difference if he's walking outside the womb or walking inside or, or stationary inside, you've got a heartbeat, you've got a human being and you're killing it.

To me, it's simply straightforward, a case of malice murder. All right, Logan, I know you want calls, so we want to talk to you. We have some calls on hold right now, but we do have a few lines open. If you want to be on the air, this is a great time to call 1-800-684-3110. I know there's a lot of questions, a lot of comments related to this topic.

Obviously it's a very hot button topic and issue. Give us a call. 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110 to have your voice heard. And hey, if you're on the other side of this, we'd love to hear from you as well. It's okay to open this up to a forum and a discussion in terms of this very important issue to the work of the ACLJ. Again, go to ACLJ.org to find all the latest. You can find that new blog from Mike Pompeo, among many other great pieces of content.

We'll be right back with more on secular. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena, and we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms. That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side.

If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.

Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. And we'll show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Secula. We are going to take some phone calls this segment, the next few segments, the next half hour about the issue that we're at hand at abortion and life and all that comes with it. Whether the controversial side, whether it's the current situation, the reason we're talking about this dad is because there has been a change in the Texas heartbeat law. That became a national story a few weeks ago.

Yeah. And part of the national story was when the Planned Parenthood clinics took the case up to the Supreme Court on an emergency stay because the, the, to try to get the law stopped a five justices of the Supreme Court said, no, uh, the law goes into effect. And then of course the department of justice enters into the lawsuit and what happens? Well, then the judge issues a tome, as Andy called it, this, you know, huge document with all of this, uh, you know, indications that he knows courts are going to go in different directions on this, but this all is taking place at the same time that you've got the DOPs case up at the Supreme Court, which could well determine, I mean, if the issue is up is Roe versus Wade, the law of the land and uh, there should be, I mean, I don't like predicting these things. I have, Lord knows I've been practicing before that Supreme Court for four decades.

So I know the risk of, uh, of predicting any of these things. But the fact is, I mean, there should be five conservative voices up there that say Roe is bad law. Now the CC point, and I'll go right back to CC on that. That doesn't end abortion in the United States if Roe versus Wade is overturned.

CC. Right. So even though that's what Planned Parenthood likes to say, uh, you know that, Oh, if Roe versus Wade is overruled, overturned by the Supreme Court, then you know, that's it. Abortion is banned. But what it does is it lets the states make those decisions. So you see states like Texas who wants to say when a heartbeat is detected, that's when we believe as a state we can protect that life from being murdered. Um, the DOPs case that is going, I believe that's a 15 week band, so it's not as limited as the six week, but the issue is viability.

And I know we've talked about this a lot. The baby is viable at the point of conception, but what the court likes to talk about in Roe versus Wade is viability outside a mother's womb, um, which that's just, you know, that's not the case. When there is life, it should be protected.

Um, and that's what we will see in, in each state. We'll be able to determine when it's compelling to protect that baby's life. Can I ask Stan a question here in that fan in Washington right now in Congress, there used to be these pro-life caucuses and you even had Democrats as members. What's is there a democratic member of Congress left that is pro-life? Well I guess it depends a little bit how you define that Jay, but I mean virtually zero. You look in the House of Representatives, you have even, uh, maybe, maybe that's sort of the last holdout.

You had Henry Cuellar and then also Jim Langevin of Rhode Island. He just recently switched his public position to be in favor of ending the Hyde Amendment. Jay, if you move to the United States Senate, you're looking at Joe Manchin and you mentioned, you mentioned just a couple of segments ago, Jay, this challenge to the Hyde Amendment, the reconciliation bill that's moving forward. They want to repeal the Hyde Amendment in that bill, which just to explain to people who don't know, that would mean that funding in that $3.5 trillion bill when it's passed could be used in the United States directly to fund abortions.

That would be in violation of longstanding US law. Uh, Jay, uh, Joe Manchin is the only Democrat in the United States Senate who has said he will not go for that. So, uh, you're, you're talking about one and literally the, the fate of that amendment in this bill, uh, hinges on his vote.

But I would tell you, Jay, it's not, it's not just an accident. It's not just that, you know, there was members of Congress who started this trend. Remember it was now President Biden on the campaign trail who reversed more than four decades of his position, standing with the majority of the American people saying, whether you're pro-life or pro-choice, I don't think your tax dollars should be used to fund something that you find morally objectionable. Uh, Jay, I really believe his reversal on that point is one of the, one of the main things that, that told members of his party, this is the position you've got to take, uh, to sort of simply ask you, answer your question. There are only a handful of Democrats who would say they're pro-life.

And even among those, if you start looking at their votes, it's just getting fewer and farther between. Logan, I know we got calls. Let's go ahead and take, let's go to Corinna who's calling in Oregon on line one. Thanks for holding.

You know, you've been holding for a while. We appreciate it. Give her a second to see if she comes on. Doesn't look like she's there.

I even put her on hold just to make sure, cause I do feel for her, she's been holding for half an hour. We'll go to Kay who's calling in California on line two then. Kay, welcome. Thank you very much. I appreciate being able to speak today. Go ahead. Yes, there's two points that I want to bring up to you, sirs.

Um, things that you might not think about, but I think are important. I'm a born again Christian, been a Christian for 30 years and um, uh, so I'm in my sixties and there's something I want everybody to know that you might not think about because it's been so long since Roe v. Wade. And that is that, um, and I think the main reason why we're even able to, uh, uh, create Roe v. Wade was because so many people were dying from illegal or self-abortion. And this is the tough thing for people to understand is that self-determination is so important to all of us, male or female, that, um, if you really, uh, cannot go through with a birth for whatever reason, people do try to seek abortions and they do try to self-abort. And what happened was, is not only did you have a fetus dying, but you would have a possibly a child dying, 12, 13, 14 years old who cannot bear telling their family. Can I ask you a question?

Can I ask you a question to you here though? Here's the, here's the, I think the fallacy with that argument. First of all, it's very rare that someone does this anymore, but, uh, there are a lot of things that if you did on your own could result in harm, but you've got to weigh in the value of the human life that's being taken. Not just the mother's risk of, uh, you know, the self, the self abortions are horrible thing to back alley abortions that used to be called, but I want people to think, and I want the caller to think that we're talking about, and I'll go to Wes on this. We're talking about another human being. This is not just one person involved in this.

There is a human being with a heartbeat. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what makes this issue, you know, so important. And so at the core of what we believe, uh, both from a moral and religious point of view and a political point of view and legal point of view in America, that we value the sacredness of human life. And it's not just about the mother, it's about another actual viable human life inside of that woman. We can't just make it about one person and ignore, uh, the other person that's involved in this. Uh, so I think that which Stacy goes to the whole point you've made about that, who's really involved in this. It's a, it's, there are two lives here.

Absolutely. And that's the issue that we need to focus on and the courts need to focus on. There are two lives. And what the argument has been up until this point is, well, but when does that baby's life, um, when is it compelling? When do we get to protect that baby? And you know, if again Roe v. Wade is overturned, then the state gets to decide when is that compelling and a baby is alive, I believe from conception and should be protected from conception. But these practical, um, implementations of when a heartbeat is detected, that is something that then you have to say, there are two lives here and we need to protect both lives.

And I'll just point out one other thing. Most women get abortions because they don't feel like they have an option. And so if we do things like what South Dakota is doing with informed consent and letting these women understand that there are options, viable options where they don't have to murder their baby, um, that is crucial. And those kinds of, um, very much smart laws need to be in place. Listen to what the attorney general in the United States said. This is a bite number 15 about this lawsuit. This kind of scheme to nullify the constitution of the United States is one that all Americans, whatever their politics or party should fear, if it prevails, it may become a model for action in other areas by other States and with respect to other constitutional rights and judicial precedents. You know, please.

Okay. I mean, this, this is, this is kind of hyperbole coming from the attorney general in the United States. Andy, I find really, really troubling. Really troubling. Well, that is troubling because he says this kind of fall on this. I mean, come on.

Yeah. Well, what constitutionally protected right? I mean, where Merrick Garland, you sat on the DC circuit, you were a candidate for Obama for the Supreme court of the United States. Would you please tell me where in the constitution it provides a constitutional right to an abortion? I don't see where that's in there. I don't see that. I believe in it and ring a textualist.

I read the constitution as it was written by the founders. I don't see that right there. I'm sorry.

Do you, if you do point it out to me, I'm willing to read it. All right. We will be back in just a moment for our final segment of the day. This is your last chance to get on the air.

If you want to give us a call, 1-800-684-3110, 1-800-684-3110. And while you're at it, if you're watching on social media, I encourage you obviously to share this, to like subscribe, you're watching on YouTube, hit that thumbs up and click the subscribe button. Make sure you click the button to get notified as well. It's a little bell Facebook. Now I believe is doing that as well. You hit the bell and you'll get a notification whenever we go live.

So that would be something you probably want to get to do that. We'd appreciate it until then though, check out aclj.org not only can you financially support the work that we're doing here, but you can just check out the incredible content that we put out each and every day from top leaders in the world of faith and in freedom. We'll be right back with more on secular. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later, understand parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success, but here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life changing work.

Become a member today, ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Secula. We're going to wrap up today's show taking some of your phone calls. If you do want to be on the air, 1-800-684-3110, 1-800-684-3110. Let's go to Jody who's calling in Alabama on line six to start us off. You're on the air. Yes.

Thanks for having me. I just wanted to call because so many women and men get so confused. This is not a law. This was one judge's ruling and so many people think, oh, we're stripping the law. We're taking it away. It was never a law to begin with and if every state voted, I believe it would never, well, these days you never know, but you know, I would have thought that never in my lifetime I would say that it would pass. Here's what I think.

Guess what? There are a lot of pro-life Americans and interestingly state legislatures are using different approaches. I want to, I'll defer to our South Dakota situation for a moment where we're representing the governor and the people of South Dakota. Now they don't have a bill like, they don't have a heartbeat bill like this, um, in, in that you have in Texas, but they have as part of their legislation and as they weighed the viability of the protection of human life, including the unborn child's life, they said they're going to require counseling and as Cece said so perfectly and I'll let her say it again, it was to protect both the women and the child, but really focusing there on the women.

Cece. Yeah. And that's part of what we call abortion distortion. Planned Parenthood always tries to act like they're the champion for women's rights, but they don't care about women. They care about abortion and murdering babies. Like I said earlier, if there, if we have a law that says you have to have sterile operating conditions and instruments, Planned Parenthood would fight that.

If we have a law that says a woman needs to have informed consent before she goes in and makes a medical decision that is going to not only affect her life, but is going to absolutely extinguish the life of the baby that she is carrying. Cece wants to say. Yeah, Cece. We had a connection issue there with Cece, yeah, but her point was very, very, very well taken.

Logan, you want to take another call or comment? Yeah, we have a comment and Wes, this is when you want to comment, I mean Delia on Facebook, Delia said even protected animal species seem to be protected even more and have been protected before the heartbeat stage. So there's just a interesting comment in the way that that's always handled and we obviously hear that conversation in terms of even your domesticated animals as well as endangered species.

Yeah. I mean, you know, there, there are some of us, if you really stop and think about this, it's hard to believe that in America, we're actually having a debate about whether or not it is legal to kill another human being, you know, a human being who, who has done nothing. I mean, the death penalty is a controversial discussion that we have frequently, but these are people who have been convicted of major capital crimes. We're talking about killing someone who is totally innocent and that's what the debate is actually about. Absolutely.

We do have a good, another comment from Scott on Facebook. It's a question that can at least kick it to the lawyers on the show and he said, if the Dobbs case reverses Roe, Dobbs case reverses Roe, do you think it will force the left to pack the court? So bringing in that topic of court packing, will that be the straw that breaks Campbell's back? Well, look, I mean, they're going to use anything if, if this decision goes the way it should go in Dobbs or in some of these other cases, they'll do anything they can to pack the court and fan, do you doubt for a month for those that don't know, court packing means just adding numbers legislatively to the, from nine to 15. And then this administration all of a sudden gets, you know, six or, you know, six appointments.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it, it, will they use it politically? Well, they already are kind of, but fan, what's the latest on the court packing plan and this commission that Joe Biden has set up? Yeah, I mean, the effort to pack the court has already begun. The appointment from President Trump of three justices to the Supreme court really kicked that off. I have no doubt, Jay, that if the Dobbs case were to go away, that the abortion industry doesn't like, they would absolutely pour more fuel on the court packing fire.

But look, here's why I don't think that works for them. If you look around the country, Jay, at the States that are engaging in this type of legislation, life is winning. And life is winning because the abortion industry is basically being forced to take the posture that the stopping of a beating heart is something that they're going to defend. They're being forced to take the posture that taking the life of a child who feels pain is something that they're okay with.

They're being forced to take the position that a baby who is viable, not inside the womb, but actually outside the womb, that is something that they're okay with. Jay, the American people aren't for that. So if the Dobbs decision were to come down the way that we think it should, and the abortion industry would try to pack the court, they would take that effort to the American people. Jay, I think the American people would reject it. So I have no doubt that it would pour fuel on that fire, but life is winning for exactly the reason that I don't think court packing will succeed. The American people will oppose it. I think Dan's absolutely correct.

Even liberal justices, Logan, of the Supreme Court have said, no, nine's a good number. So I just find it hard to believe that all of a sudden now it's going to be, you know, everybody's going to be enlightened, so to speak. We also have Cece Hall reconnected, so I'll make sure she gets to finish her points that she was making. So, Dad, if you want to take it from there, we'll go to her. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, Cece, we were talking about where all this goes, and somehow we had a technical, not somehow, sometimes you have technical difficulties, we had one. So go ahead and finish your thought. Well, and I was talking about just informed consent, letting a woman understand what this decision she's going to make that affects her and the baby that she's carrying. It's terminating that life.

She needs to have as much information about that decision as she can possibly have. And anybody who wants to stand in the way of that, they don't care about life. They don't care about the life of the mother or the life of the baby. So Planned Parenthood, again, when they try to say they are the champions for women baloney, they're not. They are champions for abortion, they are champions for the almighty dollar in their pocket of killing babies. And so I applaud South Dakota for just common sense laws that say if you're going to make this decision, you need to understand what decision you're making. Well, if there are medical procedures that doctors perform that require, and the doctors require or the hospitals require too, that you have to have third party counseling before that procedure can take place.

And of course, you know, that doesn't even get into the whole second opinion issue that is so common and prevalent in all of this. But I just want to kind of wrap this up by saying your American Center for Law and Justice, we are front and center on this. We filed three briefs in the Dobbs case, including our European Center for Law and Justice. I think, Andy, you filed you filed that one, correct? I did.

I did indeed. So we've got the European Center for Law and Justice, the ACLJ filed a brief and then there's a third one. Then at the same time, we're representing on the merits the state of South Dakota in the case that CeCe was just talking about with informed consent. So look at all of these cases. Front and center is where you find the American Center for Law and Justice. But that's only because of your support for the work of the ACLJ. And Logan, I think we need to acknowledge something, even though it's very early in the month. We are having a tremendous response this month to our work and the donation and support coming in has just been incredible. It really has.

Yeah. We want to thank everybody who has supported the work of the ACLJ and continues to. If you want to be one of those, you can do it as well at ACLJ.org. I want to also thank you all for listening today. We got shows coming up next week and tomorrow. Keep watching to make sure that if you subscribe on all of our outlets, you get notified when we go live.

But if for some reason, and look, sometimes the reason happens, if you put a certain word in a title seems to not get served to certain people, that kind of thing happens. Make sure you find us on Facebook. You find us on YouTube. You find us on ACLJ.org broadcasting Monday through Friday from noon Eastern for a full hour of secular.

So find us there. Even if for some reason you don't get notified, but if you want to get notified and hopefully you still will make sure you ring the bells on Facebook and on YouTube now and subscribe, like and share, but again, support the work financially of ACLJ at ACLJ.org and we will talk to you tomorrow on Secular. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.