As Border Crisis Spirals, Biden Ends Migrant Protection Protocols

Breaking news as the border crisis spirals out of control. Biden and his administration in the migrant protection protocols known as Remain in Mexico.

But what happens next? We'll talk about that today on Sekulow. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. Hey, welcome to Sekulow. We are taking your phone calls to 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. We talk about this issue on the southern border. We're going to be joined in the third segment of the broadcast, so in this first half hour, with former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, ACLJ's Senior Counsel for Global Affairs. If you go to ACLJ.org today, you'll see right on the home page a new post by Secretary Pompeo called On the Southern Border, Team Biden is Nowhere to be Found. And one of the questions we're going to be asking Secretary Pompeo is, you know, they keep talking about the root cause of this border crisis, and they're going to Costa Rica, they're going to all these other countries, but they're not going to the southern border. So the question that I'm going to be asking Secretary Pompeo, or one of us will be, is, is it actually Biden and his administration? I mean, I think it's somewhat rhetorical, but that they are the root cause of the border crisis. They are the ones who said, come all, come all, try to get in.

This is the best time to do it. We're not going to really send anyone away. We're going to end Remain in Mexico, which is something that was working well for those who were actually seeking asylum and said, okay, if you have a real asylum claim, you will wait in Mexico. We had an agreement with Mexico to do that, and then if you have a real claim, you'll be willing to wait because you've got a real asylum claim. And that's something we accept in the United States of America. We allow you to present forward in a court in the United States of America. It's a way to come to the United States if you really are in fear of your life, your family's life, but that's it. It's not about economic, and it's clearly never about economic. You cannot get asylum for economic purposes. It has to be your life in jeopardy, serious bodily harm to you and your family, for politics, for positions you've taken, gang violence, things like that.

But it has to be specific to you. It can't just be I come from a violent city. It can't be I come from a poor city. It has to be you are being targeted. Or the other thing they're promoting is worrying about climate change as a basis upon which you could get asylum. I mean, no, they haven't tried to add that yet.

No, but they're saying, right, you're right. They haven't added it, but they said that's part of the migration issue. So why not just add climate change to your list of reasons you're seeking asylum? And then everyone would be able to seek asylum.

Of course, because they're really concerned about climate change in these countries. So we've got Mike Pompeo's coming up in the third segment of the broadcast, first half hour. Coming up next, joining us on a victory, old school ACLJ victory. There you go.

Frank Manion will be joining us. A second grader, get this, still 2021, has their Bible confiscated. Can't do that. Public schools, we're going to talk to Frank about that. I'll get into the details about how did this happen again in 2021.

Of course, ACLJ got this resolved. But imagine you get a second grader's got a Bible in their bag or whatever reason, and they are told, no, you can't do that. It's still something that is, and I think it always has the potential, dad, to come back, especially in this new woke world we live in, where we could easily be refighting those battles again. No, you're absolutely, you know, I thank God that in the 1980s and 90s, we went to the summary report and successfully won. And when we come back from the break, I'll talk about the history of that, these cases for these students, because Jordan's right, it will be deemed contraband.

The Bible, a friend of mine years ago, 40 years ago said, and this was in the 80s, they're treating the Bible as if it's asbestos in the ceiling tile and you can't touch it or else you're going to get sick. And the reality is, and I think this is what's really important here, is that wokeness, as Jordan talked about, is coming back again. Now, fortunately, we have the Supreme Court decisions already in play. So, we've got them. Now, we're using them again to defend this time of second grader. We're going to get details on that. I wanted you to take a look at this because we talk about big issues on this program, but for that second grader, that was a Supreme Court case.

That's how they view it. Again, I want to thank everybody for the support of the American Center for Law and Justice. And later in the broadcast, we're going to have another special guest. That's right, John Rich will be joining us in studio as well. So, on Pat Pack Day, the American Center for Law and Justice, and another victory too for the Conscience Clause about Frank in the second half hour.

So, two big ACLJ victories to talk about today. And, of course, the border as well that we'll talk about with Secretary Pompeo. His new piece up again at ACLJ.org. On the southern border, Team Biden is nowhere to be found.

Check it out and share it with your friends. We'll be right back. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Alright, so recently at the ACLJ we heard from the parents of Gabrielle. She is a second grader in Illinois. She liked to bring her Bible to school, read it during recess. Sometimes she would read it out loud. Good for her if she's at that reading level already. And sometimes other kids, they would listen in, they'd talk to her about it, what's she reading.

So is this a constitutional crisis? Well, it was for the school. She was actually told, now this is a second grader, think about that.

They took her Bible, her teacher took her Bible and told her, quote, you just can't be doing that. Frank Manion, senior counselor for the ACLJ, our legal team. Gabrielle's family, because they contacted us at the ACLJ, ACLJ.org forward slash help.

We don't, the legal services don't cost you anything to assist you in these matters, but we've got to contact us so we know it happened. This was a brave second grader and family who said, you know what, we're going to stand up and fight. That's who it takes to make sure that the laws that are in place to protect people like Gabrielle and kids like her are followed by the school. So Frank Manion is joining us now on the air. Hey, Frank, thanks for being with us.

Hey, Jordan. Hey, Frank, let me ask you this. Okay, so we're looking at this and we're saying this is 2021. Okay, it's 2021. We've been arguing these cases. I don't want to date us, Frank, but we've been arguing these cases for literally 40 years. I mean, we're getting close to 35 and 40 year anniversaries on some of these cases. What possibly possessed the school district to do this to this little girl?

It just amazed me, Jay, when we got this contact because I thought, yes, this will be back in time again. And not only, even when you and I were even younger, before we were even in law school, the Tinker case set the legal standards here for students in elementary schools and high schools. And yet the ignorance is still out there. And it wasn't even malicious in this case. These school officials simply didn't know the law. And so that's why we basically saw our role here is educating the educators. And when we did, I mean, they tried to make a silly distinction about what she can read outside, but you can't read it if recess is inside because there there'd be some sort of a captive audience. And we made clear that we did investigate this a little bit and no one had complained.

Let's go back on that because this is typically what happens. No complaints by anybody. No offended observer. Sometimes we have somebody, you know, they walk by a Ten Commandments monument.

They say, oh, I've seen it. Now I'm upset. We don't even have that here. Not even that. No heckler's veto in play here. Just sort of an unarticulated fear by the teachers and the principal that's based on this ACLU, the interpretation of separate separation of church and state battling for decades now. And we educated them. And after we did and we sent a letter, we didn't even have to threaten in this case.

We just said, you know, you're you're you almost felt bad thing. You really don't know much about this area. Here's what the law says. You've got to show not just your weird, inarticulated fear that some kid or some parent might complain.

You got to show some substantial disruption, at least spread of that to the school process. So it wasn't here. Not even hinted at here. And so they backed down. So here's what's important to understand. And the reason I want to highlight this and we'll highlight another case in the second half hour of the broadcast. But I want to focus on this one for this segment, because in this culture that we're now in, although we've had and I'm going to go through those in a minute, we've had great success on these cases. I mean, we've had hundreds of these cases, but we had a series of cases, Frank, at the Supreme Court. I think of Murgans, the Bible Club case, equal access case, where we won that and eight to one. And the Supreme Court said students don't shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech. The establishment clause doesn't prohibit students from reading the Bible, singing songs that have a religious theme. You know, you think about the Pledge of Allegiance case where Justice O'Connor wrote, it would be ironic indeed if a nation founded by religious refugees would sever the ties that bind it to that history. So we've had these series of cases, Lamb's Chapel, where, again, they said, you know, this heckler's veto, the religious veto. Scalia famously in that case said the test that the Supreme Court was using was like a ghoul in a late night horror show.

They kept rising its head up and you put a stake in its heart as a monster and it still come back up. And that's what, Jordan, you said you're concerned that's about to happen again in this woke culture that we're now in. Yeah, I want to break that if we're going to be experiencing this one more time, another, not necessarily that we're going to have to go fully litigate, though that could be potentially down the road, but I don't see the current makeup of the Supreme Court being an issue there with these cases. But that we might start having to deal with this again with teachers especially and school administrators who are, even if they are not bad actors, some are, but some are just scared for their own jobs. And everything now that's deemed, and it all controversial, you know, you have to get out of the hands of kids. And so, you know, I wonder, Frank, if we're going to see kind of a next, especially kids are going to go back to school in the fall it looks like, and everything's going to return to normal, if we're going to see a wave of these. It's very possible, Jordan, and, you know, there's sort of a backsliding going on here that, well, we had a conservative wave for a long time and now it appears maybe we're going in the other direction.

So maybe all of the things that the conservatives accomplished can be rolled back a little bit. And that's why we're here, to make sure that doesn't happen. And people need to know that.

In addition to all of the other work the ACLJ does worldwide, all over the place, in many different areas, this is still bread and butter for us, that as your dad knows, he was litigating and arguing at the Supreme Court. Well, when you were probably not even aware of it. No, he was aware of it. He was there. He was just young.

Very young. I don't know if I was fully aware, but I do think that one thing that we're watching out for now is this idea that all of this could come back. I mean, the idea that, especially the aggressive school administrators. I mean, we're dealing with a lot of issues at our schools right now.

They're not the ones that have been trained in the last 10, 15 years. Right, there's the, I mean, you think about the issues like the, we're not talking about right now the critical races. All those things that are coming up. How do we teach this?

What curriculum? And then a kid brings a Bible to school. I could see that becoming an issue now. And then you have the constitutional crisis. Especially when they are pre-high school.

You know what we probably need to do, Frank? We haven't done this in a decade and a half, maybe probably 20 years. We used to send a letter, if you remember this, to every school district in the country at the beginning of the year and say, here's what the law is. Students can have events like see you at the poll. Students are allowed to have voluntary student-initiated, student-led Bible club.

The establishment clause doesn't allow government to treat the religious speaker differently than any other person. And we sent these letters out that had basically, here's what, and even under Bill Clinton's presidency, they had a list of things you could do in the schools. And we were part of putting that together. I think it's probably, with everything going on right now and with this, the culture that we're now living in, Frank, that maybe it's time to reeducate the schools. And just at the beginning of the year, sure, you do it by email now, we send it to every general counsel of every school board in the United States.

It's probably a really good idea, Jay, because I think you're right. I think that with time, and with shifting winds culturally and politically, people have lost sight of the victories that we gained. And you're right, and we didn't even mention the Clinton Department of Education guidelines, which essentially read almost like the letters that we were sending to school officials. And maybe were inspired to some extent by the letters we were sending. But we're very clear.

And that was the Clinton administration. But I do think there is a danger in the current climate of backsliding to a time that existed before those accomplishments were achieved. And we just have to be vigilant.

We have to be very vigilant about it. I'm going to get our staff working on a letter for back to school. I mean, it's already June.

It's going to be here before you know it. Some schools go back in August. You know, in some of these cases, the Supreme Court used language like this.

The establishment clause doesn't license government to treat religious people or religious practices as if they're subversive to the American Republic and subject to unique disabilities. But that's exactly what they did to the second grader. They treated her differently than they would treat anybody else that was reading a book during recess.

Frank? Actually, if she had been reading it, you know, just the cat in the hat. Well, maybe not the cat in the hat. But some other kids' books on the playground. That's a good example, actually.

Because that's what I was talking about. It's like if you start going back to what we were dealing with, 80s, 90s, you weren't dealing with this kind of like censorship of books that we're seeing now. And I mean, you know that there's a lot of school administrators, especially these ones who are fighting on these various extremely liberal curriculum. They like to teach second graders. Some of this stuff on sex ed, they're teaching in New York public schools. It's outrageous. To second graders. They love to get rid of the Bible. Make sure that that can't be on campus. So, Frank, I think what we do is we probably have to redraft it.

It's probably got to pull the dust off it and update it. But I think this is a really good idea. Also, Delilah on Facebook, this is a really good point. She said, should you also send a letter to the PTA associations that they are armed with the knowledge of their rights? And that is a really good idea. So I'm sure there's a list of PTAs because they're official organizations. So, Frank, I think let's get a team working on this and let's get a letter out in August to every school district in the country and all the PTAs and all the general counsels. I think that's how we do it. Maybe the school boards too.

I'm sure it's all online now. So we used to mail them out in the old days. Remember that, Frank? That's right. Yep, yep. Piles and piles of envelopes.

No more envelopes, no more stamps, but we're going to get that information out. Frank, it's a great win. I wanted people to understand it, and they did, and it was a good segment. Frank's going to join us in the second half hour on a pro-life issue where we've had another big win.

That's right. A conscience clause, Victor. We're going to talk to Thad Bennett about that too in Washington, D.C. because you've got these federal protections that were put in place by the Trump administration that were great for people on conscience issues. But is the Biden team trying to undermine them, and how are they trying to undermine them if they started at the HHS? Remember, we know who the secretary of HHS is.

This is not someone who is friendly to the pro-life cause, to say the least. So we'll talk to Frank again, but we've got a big victory there. This is from a government employee social worker whose conscience rights were protected. So we'll talk to Frank again, but coming up in the next segment live with us is former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo back to the border issue. So we took a little break from that for a second, but back to the border issue.

He's got a new piece up on the southern border, Team Biden nowhere to be found. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today.

ACLJ.org. Hey, welcome back to the broadcast, everyone. We're going to be taking some of your calls at 800-684-3110. Joining us now is our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, former Secretary of State, and former Director of the CIA, Mike Pompeo. Mike, you've got a brand new piece that we're posting, I think, right now on the southern border. Team Biden is nowhere to be found.

One of the questions that we were asking ourselves, and when they keep saying they want to get to the root causes of mass migration, we're wondering, are they the root cause for mass migration here? You know, Jay, we're now months into this problem set, and they've done nothing to respond to it. They ripped the Band-Aid off. They took the policies that we had put in place.

It took us a couple years to get it right. But we turned the magnet off. We had enforced our southern border. We had stopped the humanitarian crisis. We kept our national security intact, and they literally stare at this problem set and say, nothing to see here, folks. They are completely absent from this enormous crisis.

I think they think if it just goes on long enough, maybe we'll all forget. But I promise you, the folks who are suffering from this, the human beings that are impacted, the people in Arizona and Texas and Arizona who are feeling dispersed, and those of us who live elsewhere who will feel it right behind them, we can't turn away. This is an enormous problem, and the administration has to take seriously its responsibility to secure American freedom and defend our borders. You know, Mr. Secretary, we're hearing from people on the broadcasts that are calling from Texas, they're calling from Arizona, but I'll tell you where else they're calling from. They're calling from Chicago, and they're calling from Atlanta, and they're calling from, you know, St. Louis, because what happens is the traffickers, once they get in, then use the interstate system to distribute their either drugs, the sex trafficking or child trafficking, whatever it might be, and they immediately get out into the rest of the country. So this border problem is not simply for those on the border. I think it's important for people to understand that. No, it's very true, Jay. I'll give you two examples, right?

I lived in Wichita, Kansas at home. That I-35 corridor is an active transit route, not only for the illegal immigrants themselves, but for the drugs and the human trafficking that takes place alongside of that. It will impact people in every part of the United States of America, small communities that will have more drugs, cheaper drugs. This will have ramifications for years and years to come, and as we now see tens of thousands of illegal immigrants flooding across our border, this is truly a challenge that the Biden administration has to take on, and Americans in every community will be adversely impacted if we don't get this stopped immediately. Governor Abbott's declared the state of Texas a disaster area because of this. Anyways, Jordan, go ahead.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Secretary Pompeo, one of those issues too, and your article addresses it too, we now know, and it's up at ACLJ.org on the southern border, Team Biden is nowhere to be found, so check that out from Secretary Pompeo. That's right up on the home page of ACLJ.org. But they have now officially, we knew it was coming, but they have officially put it into the Remain in Mexico policy. I mean, we're talking about at least 68,000 people who were seeking asylum who were told, okay, if you really believe that you've got an asylum claim to make, you have to wait in Mexico, and then when it's your turn to present your case, you know, you'll be able to go through the legal process here. It's different than the immigration process. Now that that's been ended, I mean, what happens next?

I mean, it's already out of control. It seems like those 68,000, does that mean they get a green light to come in and wait? You know, they've been very quiet about this. I assume it's the case that they'll be given a ticket to cross the border freely.

That policy, Jordan, just was common. You have a valid claim for asylum. We're happy to process that. We'll get to it as quickly as we can, and we'll give you a fair adjudication. But you can't make a bogus claim, show up in the United States, and then just hang out and transit freely across America, and think, boy, I may be able to stay forever, and someday they'll give me asylum or they'll give me a free pass.

That is a magnet. There'll be two things that happen, Jordan. One, those people who are remaining in Mexico under the previous lawsuit will want to come here and demand entry. And second, it's a green light for people in Central America, in El Salvador or Honduras or Guatemala to say, I'm going to come up, I'm going to make my asylum claim, and then I'll head off to Denver, to Chicago, to St. Louis. And one fine day I'll get America's citizenship. I understand why they want to do it, but it's not what America does. It's not the legal immigration system that we have in place that's been the perfect immigration system for the United States that allowed all of us to have this wonderful country. Yeah, it's the immigration system that allowed my grandparents to come in just a generation ago, two generations ago.

Let me ask you this. There is the border agents, and we're hearing from them, Mike, we're hearing from them a lot. And they're saying that the hard left of the Democratic Party is pushing for defunding ICE. And what the ICE agents are basically saying, hey, look, they may not have defunded us, but they have hamstrung us. Our hands are tied because it's basically no enforcement. So they effectively have abolished ICE in a sense by their policies that they're putting in place, limiting what these agents can do. Yeah, I think that's spot on.

I'd go a bit further. It's not even just the far left of their party anymore. This is becoming Democrat orthodoxy. Remember, one of the folks that's described as the far left was their runner up as a Presidential candidate.

Two cycles in a row, Bernie Sanders. They literally want to handcuff our agents. It puts them at physical risk as well. And their families send them off every morning knowing that they're going to confront people who may well want to harm them. It puts them at physical risk. And then, of course, it prevents them from doing their jobs. By the way, the jobs that the law requires them to do.

This is a de-effectivizing. Without taking the money away, they're essentially taking away all the tools that they've used for these past four years to secure our southern border. It's dangerous for our great law enforcement people in our southern borders, and it's dangerous for the country as well. You know, Secretary Pompeo, it's clear that the Biden administration officials are scared to actually visit the border. They don't want that imagery. They don't want that picture. They don't want that video.

They don't want to actually see it for themselves in person. But what they tell us is that, well, hey, we're going to go to Costa Rica. We're going to meet with people. We're going to handle this diplomatically. I think, and you can speak to this, there's obviously a diplomatic component to this. You worked out the Remain in Mexico plan. You had to work on that with Mexico. But if you don't actually go see what you're dealing with and you're just traveling around these root causes we talk about, it seems like it kind of hamstrings the ability to actually use the diplomacy. Well, there's nothing like really hearing from the people who are most impacted by the situation. By the way, that's certainly our law enforcement people who are tasked with executing this. But, you know, they ought to travel to Mexico as well, the country that helped us and worked alongside of us. That policy was negotiated diplomatically with the Mexican government.

It delivered good outcomes for the U.S. and for Mexico and certainly for the people who are being trafficked. You've got to confront it. You've got to listen.

You have to learn. You have to understand it in context. And if you can't do that, if you can't confront it, you'll see precisely what we've seen, thousands of people coming across our border presenting enormous risk to all of us.

Let me ask, we've just got less than a minute and a half here. This problem for the country, how significant is it? It's very significant. It's certainly an immigration border problem, but it's beyond that. We see fentanyl moving into our country. We know that there's risk that there'll be folks coming out from just central America, but others will see a transit path, whether that's terrorists or criminals who want to come into our country. This risk is real. We have a responsibility.

The United States government has a responsibility to know who's coming in and out of our country and to secure that border. Otherwise, it's Katie bar the door, and there are all kinds of national security risks that flow from that, Jay. Mike Pence is the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, former secretary... Mike Pence. Mike Pompeo is the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency and the former, of course, secretary of state. Maybe that was a slip. That could be the next President or vice President.

Who knows? There you go. And, of course, senior counsel of global affairs for the ACLJ. Thanks for being with us. Appreciate it as always. You know, and I think what we will talk to Secretary Pompeo in the coming days, that's Mike Pompeo.

There's a lot of Mike's pees and things. It happens. You know, you think in the future. Yes, think in the future, but also we're going to be talking to him a lot. We talked about it yesterday with this summit with Putin, which is coming up on June 16th. So we didn't have time to get to it today, but we got time to talk about it with our senior counsel for global affairs.

We'll be coming right back, second half hour with Sekulow coming up. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today.

ACLJ.org. Live from Washington, D.C., Sekulow Live. And now, your host, Jordan Sekulow.

Welcome back to Sekulow. We'll take your phone calls to 1-800-684-30110, though it is a packed show today. We've got Frank Manion will be joining us again in this second half hour of the broadcast talking about another ACLJ victory on the conscience protections. And then John Rich will be in the studio with us here in the last segment of the broadcast.

All of that live, none of that pre-taped or anything like that. What I did want to talk to Thad Bennett about our director of government affairs right away on this conscience issue. So we're already seeing this come up. And we're always fighting conscience issues, even when the rules are good and the laws are good, you still have to fight. Because these administrators, staff, they don't know what the law is, they don't know what the rules are, so we have to educate them. But Thad, how in danger are those good conscience protections that were put in place by the Trump administration, by the new secretary of HHS?

Yeah, they're definitely in danger, Jordan. And look, we talk about this a lot, but in order to properly defend conscience protections that are in law, you need a couple of things, depending on the context, depending on which right you're talking about. Either one, you need an administration who is willing to enforce those laws. You heard Frank talk about some of the conscience protections that have been in statute for decades now. He talked about the church amendment.

He's going to be talking about the Weldon Amendment coming up. There's a whole mosaic of them, Jordan, but you need an administration that is willing to enforce those. And during the Trump administration, we saw incredible strides made to protect those statutory protections. I think probably the best example is the office that was set up inside the Department of Health and Human Services to actually enforce these provisions, and we won several actions under those.

The other thing you need in a different context, Jordan, is what Frank talked about in the last segment. You need people who actually see these rights stepped on, infringed on a ground level, being willing to stand with the ACLJ to advance those. So in this current posture that we're in, to answer your question, we can certainly continue the latter, and it's more important than ever because those violations are going to happen. But here's the thing, Jordan, we're not going to see enforcement on the agency level out of Washington, D.C., so we're going to have to engage them in the courts and on the ground. Look, we're going to continue to fight back. We're going to continue to insist that the agencies enforce the law, but here's the reality, Jordan. We're going to have to take more of these claims to the case-by-case level that Frank talked about just a couple segments ago.

Yeah, this is the issue, and we're going to talk about, again, another one of these victories with Frank in the next segment. But as Stan said, it is important that while we get these victories, we understand that you've got to have the rules on the book, but also how you enforce the rules. And that's what the agencies do. They say, okay, here's the law. How do they execute the law? That's why they're called the executive branch. So the law gets passed, the protection gets passed.

They then have to figure out how to actually put it in place, and that gives them a lot of discretion. What you said in the first segment of the broadcast, actually, in this new cultural awakeness that we have, all of a sudden pro-life is now also treated discriminatorily. And a lot of the cases that we dealt with in the 70s and 80s and 90s, really, are now coming back to full force.

I mean, we have conscious cases all the time. This one's interesting that we're going to talk about because it involves a federal agency. Also, we've got a hostile HHS. Xavier Becerra is the most hostile pro-abortion, anti-life HHS secretary we have ever had, certainly in my lifetime. And this is a guy that fought against crisis pregnancy centers mandating that they have to refer for abortion, which, by the way, in the case you're about to learn about, is exactly the same thing. To social workers who said the issue never even came up, but they were forced or required to sign a statement acknowledging that reproductive healthcare included abortion referrals and you had to refer to abortion. If somebody doesn't want to do it, there's 10 other social workers that are willing to do it.

But this social worker, because of his Christian belief, said, no, I don't want to do it. What happens? So that's what we're going to talk about during the break. But again, the ACLJ, sure, global issues, national broadcasts, international broadcasts, but also right down to the school board in one case, or the school, actually, in that case, or the second grader, and in this case, to a federal agency. Yeah, I think that's what makes us unique. We had Frank on, then Mike Pompeo, who's an ACLJ team member, we have people like Rick Grenell, ACLJ team members.

Frank will be back on. I mean, this is, again, it just shows you the depth and scope of our work from the grassroots level to the international level as well. We'll be back talking about this victory in just a minute. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Secular. Frank Manion joining us again to your accounts with the ACLJ.

Shifting from that victory for the second grader in the Bible, here is an issue. So just kind of how we handle this. In late March, ACLJ gets contacted by a gentleman. He works as a social worker at a federally qualified health center, large city on the East Coast.

They provide healthcare for the homeless, so it's great work that they're doing there. Then what's interesting is abortion is not like a top topic for people. Rarely ever comes up as an issue. This is not the issue, but Bill and his co-employees were recently asked to sign and acknowledge, why do you think this was done, by the way? Elections have consequences.

We were just talking about that with Dan Bennett. Where are these conscience protections now? So the HR directors at these federal centers got these new notices, and they were asked to sign and acknowledge a new reproductive healthcare policy. They were interpreting that as requiring social workers like Bill to provide information to clients about where they could obtain abortions. Not optional. Sign the policy or find a job somewhere else.

No quote choice for Bill. And this again, new administration, these policy guidelines, I'm sure went out all across the country to all the agencies. But he was willing to contact us and fight back. Yes, so this is typically how these come up. Is a new policy is put in place or a policy is interpreted in a very different way, and then there is this legal challenge. Now, Frank, in this case, we've been handling, first of all, when we talk about conscience clause, conscience cases, let's give an overview of what that means. We've represented doctors, nurses, pharmacists, social workers, I mean, the whole host, but let's describe for everybody what that is.

Typically what happens, Jay, is it usually rises in the employment context, often government employment, but not necessarily can be private employment too. An employee is told, from now on, you have to participate in, refer for, book appointments for, I mean, we've even represented receptionists in places and had successful outcomes. And it's somebody who describes himself as pro-life, a Christian or any other religion or no religion, and they describe themselves as pro-life who say, my conscience won't let me do that. They contact us.

What can I do? I'm going to be fired if I don't sign this policy or I was fired because I refuse to participate in an abortion or abortion related procedure. And then we go to work and we tap into what we call a mosaic of federal and state laws has been on the books for decades, really since 1973. Exactly. It was, it was passed in response to Roe v. Wade, uh, by a huge bipartisan, uh, majority in both houses of Congress.

Uh, I mean, it's named after Senator Frank Church, a liberal Democrat at the time, as you and I recall. Right. Uh, and so we go to work for them on those issues. Um, for the past four years, we had some friends at the department of HHS who, uh, not only looked favorably on, on these kinds of cases, but as Jordan described, set up a conscience and religious freedom division, uh, which we also referred people to. So sometimes we've had to go to court very often.

We don't have to go to court. We can get by with a demand letter. Sometimes we'd have to do with administrative agency proceeding, but whatever it takes, we see it as our job to defend the rights of conscience for pro-lifers in the workplace. And here's a case where, and you've indicated both you and Jordan have alluded to what scares me about this. Suddenly in March, I mean, here's this guy, Bill, who's been working at this agency for years, years, never had an issue. No, he's dealing basically with drug addicted people in an inner city.

Uh, and his job is to try and find them housing, try to find the medical assistance, try to find them whatever social services they need to turn their lives around. And all of a sudden it becomes a job that has something to do with abortion. Um, and if you don't agree to refer people for abortions, you're going to be fired.

And I even, of course we investigated this and he said, there are, there's a half a dozen people here who have no problem doing that. Why must I do it? And yet he was told he had to do it. And this is because again, this is kind of the return of the cases we've been handling forever. And this is because these agencies, as Jordan, as you said, send out memos, send out guidance and it's agency wide or sometimes inter-agency saying, Hey, look, by the way, we're, this is the policy of the administration. We want everybody to have access to healthcare by the way, that includes abortion referrals. And then you've got an HHS secretary who told crisis pregnancy centers, you better have abortion referrals up on a sign outside. And by the way, the Supreme court said, no, you don't get to do that, but that's what's happened here.

Yeah. And then I want to get to say it too, as well, because then, I mean, you also, we talked about the height of it, but the Biden administration is going right at that. They would love, I don't know if they've got the votes right now, the Senate to do it because of the filibuster is still there in place. But I mean, another election cycle goes their way. I don't think it will, but if it does, this is, this is in their, their sites as well is getting rid of the height of it.

It's no longer imaginary Jordan. I mean, look, a lot of people who supported President Biden said, well, at least he's moderate on the issue of life. You know, he supports the height amendment. He's going to defend the right of American taxpayers, not to have to pay for abortions in the United States. Well, look, if that was true decades ago, it's no longer true today.

We have it in black and white. Now, Jordan, the President just last week sent his proposed budget to the United States Congress. Now that budget is not the one that ultimately makes it into us law, but it lays out the policy priorities of the sitting President. And one of those policies was a proposal to end the height amendment completely, not to scale it back, not to work around the edges to get rid of it completely. And Jordan, what is the height amendment at its core? It's really a conscience protection for the roughly two thirds of Americans, including many on the pro-choice side of the ledger who say, look, we don't think our taxpayer dollars should be used for abortions.

Make no mistake about it. Now, Jordan, there can be no hedging. There is a proposed budget from President Biden sitting in the house and the Senate that is vice President or President Biden saying, I want to get rid of the height amendment. That's really a conscience violation at its core, Jordan. You know, I think about this, Frank, and it's like it's, you know, it's like it's here it goes again. And in this particular case with Bill, where abortion did not come up in his day to day work, is forced to sign a policy about abortion referral. He says, no, let's walk through everybody. What took place here?

Because it's important for people. And sometimes, listen, Frank said trial jury trials on these cases before, but most of the time that's not the case. Talk about what happened here. Well, we were able to put together a letter just outlining for the legal counsel for the federal agency that he worked for that in case you don't know it, there are federal laws that say what you're asking this or demanding that this guy do is illegal. And the most obvious one was to us was the so-called welding amendment that's been on the books since the 1990s, I think, that says that no recipient of federal money can acquire its employees to refer. And the word refer is right in the act, refer for abortions.

And that's what they were telling this gentleman that he had to do. We also cited the church amendment. We also cited general employment law, such as Title VII, which places on the employer the burden of trying to make a reasonable accommodation under the employee's religious beliefs. It's not an absolute demand that you have to do everything that a religious objector says to do, but you have to make an effort to accommodate them. So that applies even in the non-federal or government employee context.

But in the federal employment context, where an employer receives federal money, they are strictly limited. Now, I share the concerns that have been voiced here, especially by FAN, that with the Hyde Amendment no longer in the budget, at least as proposed, are these other laws in jeopardy? And they may be. I never thought that would happen. But the radical nature of the abortion position being taken by this administration goes beyond anything we saw under Clinton. It just does. And that's what's frightening. And I guess there are political and cultural reasons for that, too. But these conscience protections don't enforce themselves. People who find themselves in these situations can reach out to us, and if it's a case that we think is valid, we will go to work on it.

I want to ask Stan Bennett this. We've got these statutory protections, these constitutional protections as well, but the statutory protections, are they in danger? They are, Jay.

I mean, look, it's been proposed by the President of the United States. That's the first step. Look, sometimes in these cases, Jay, the school or the entity knows the law.

I think that was probably the case in the one we talked about earlier. But other times, Jay, maybe the entity knows the law and they don't care because they know the administration's not going to enforce them. That's the danger we're in now. But look, if they are allowed to take that step, what's the next step? The next step is to remove those statutory protections altogether.

So we need to fight it now while they're being threatened so that Washington, D.C., doesn't feel enabled to remove the statutory protections altogether. You know, Fred, we've represented physicians that were heads of departments on these issues. It really does run the gamut. It runs the gamut, Jay.

We've done physicians, we've done nurses, we've had pharmacists, lots of pharmacists, and basically everybody in the medical field that finds themselves confronted with a life issue in the workplace can have this problem. And these laws, for the most part, protect all of them. Some are more specific than others.

But we do our level best to find the statutory or the administrative or the constitutional arguments that best apply to the particular situation. But again, they don't enforce themselves, and with the current climate, they're not going to be enforced by federal agencies as presently constituted. Alright, thanks Frank. Thanks Frank.

When we come back, John Rich will be joining us in the studio live as well, so you don't want to miss that. As always, check out ACLJ.org to stay up to date on all of the cases that we're working on, the situations that Frank is talking about. And I'm telling you folks, I think that we're going to see a new wave of this. I think, you know, we saw the 80s and the 90s, but we're seeing some major changes in public schools. You know, we had the COVID crisis, the kids weren't in school, and they were different. Now they're going to come back, but they're coming back with a whole new curriculum and a very different culture. A very different agenda, too. So I think that we're going to have to continue to double down to fight these cases, to carry out, and we're going to need to hear from you, so we continue these victories as well.

Be right back. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work. Become a member today.

ACLJ.org. Well, this has been a variety program. I will say that we had Frank Mannion on talking about a second grader that had a Bible ban, which I can't even believe in the year 2021 we had him mentioned, let alone handle. Then we had Frank come on a little bit later talking about a conscience clause cases. Those have been ongoing, but again, it's kind of in this new culture that we're living in. These kinds of things now become more pronounced. We had Mike Pompeo, former Secretary of State, former Director of Central Intelligence Agency and our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs talking about what's not happening on the border and what is happening on the border.

And maybe that the root cause of that border problem is the Biden administration themselves, because they're interested in root causes. Now we're joined by our friend John Rich here on our set, who in a few minutes, John and I are going to be jamming out upstairs with the band, which I'm looking forward to, by the way, and so are the bands. Me too. All right. I want to talk, John, we've just gone through, it's not a year now, we're talking about, we calculated it.

When my guys got back together to play music again, it had been 16 months since we had all been in the same room. We did some virtual stuff for people, but to be in the same room, you have a business, you've got multiple businesses. Explain the stress that was put on businesses this last year and a half. Because people, you're a business owner.

I mean, you're known as obviously a singer entertainer, but you run a business. Yeah, I do. So, you know, we all understood, especially in the beginning, which I'm just going to remind everybody, remember when the announcement of COVID-19 came across the news and we're all seeing it for the first time. The images they were showing us, Jay, was images from China of people dropping dead in the street and hazmat suits on the sidewalks and bodies getting loaded onto flatbed trucks. And that's our first thing that we saw, which scared everyone to death, including me, including all of us. Including, look, you got the President, then President Trump concerned too.

They were telling him there'd be two and a half million Americans killed. So we're like, if that's what it is, then we'll do whatever we got to do to keep everybody safe. Okay, so that's how it started.

If you'll notice, we never saw those images again past March. You never saw anybody else dropping dead in the streets of COVID-19, so that's suspect to me in the beginning. But it put us into such a mindset of fear in this country that we were all willing to do whatever we needed to do.

But then, here's where it got really hard to deal with. When you have, for instance, like the mayor of Nashville telling business owners, I own a big bar downtown in Nashville. He said, restaurants that serve liquor can stay open, but bars that serve food have to close. Or, my favorite, there's a great example of ridiculous, or churches, religious institutions were told this. When they allowed you to have in-person, initially no, it would be 25% of your capacity of your worship center, or 25 people, whichever is less.

So you could have a 5,000 seat worship center, which there are churches in this area, believe me, that do have that kind of, but you could have 25 people. None of that made sense, but yet that was the mindset. Now, the rebound, though, I want to give hope to people. I always like to give hope. The rebound has been incredible. The pent-up, the people are ready to reopen America.

They are back. At my business downtown, Redneck Riviera is what it's called, we are bouncing our numbers now off of 2019 numbers. 2020 was a zero. And we're up like 63% right now, year over year, day by day.

You put the days back to back. People are out in force. Like you said, the pent-up demand, I think they're glad that they can finally get out and be a normal American again. I never liked that phrase, a new normal. There's no new normal.

There's just normal. And we're going back to that. So it is good to see Nashville filling up. One of the things that has me concerned, I'm hearing from business owners all over the country, and especially in areas that are known for, and Nashville, of course, has a big tourist community, a lot of tourists coming in, but also a big populace. But like in Florida, what I'm hearing is, and North Carolina, I saw this just yesterday, outside of Asheville, North Carolina, a town called Waynesville.

Beautiful town. Restaurant that's been there for 65 years. Could not open yesterday because they cannot get help. Now, they can't get help in part because the government's been sending out checks that are kind of depressing the ability of people to work.

And that has been a problem too. It's incentivizing them to stay home, basically. But I said yesterday to my wife, I said, this is socialism. This is how socialism starts. You incentivize people to not have incentive.

Yeah. I mean, you give them no reason to want to go work or strive or chase the American dream or pursue happiness. But the one thing they're forgetting is that the government can never give you as much as you can earn on your own. They're only going to give you enough to barely get by whatever they consider getting by as you go out on your own and you go work.

You're going to smoke that number if you go out and work. So, to take that bait and swallow it, that's a dangerous thing for Americans to do. Unfortunately, it has happened. And what's happening is, especially to small businesses, and this is the thing that concerns me, is these well-established small businesses. I mean, I think this restaurant, John, had been in business since 1954, which is two years old. In 67 years, they have been there. And the end result of that is they can't open yesterday.

Now, hopefully, I haven't looked today to see if they're open. But this building in a disincentive to work is what this administration seems to be bent on doing right now. Well, you know, we used to say, you know they're all a bunch of socialists, right? We used to say that and they'd go, oh, go back to the basement and put your tinfoil hat back on, John. No, they're not.

They just think differently than you. And now, we don't have to accuse them of being socialists because they are putting – they're like, we're all about socialism. We might even be from more than what socialism is, which is moving in on the C-word. So, it's definitely dangerous what they're trying to put into play, and I hope Americans don't accept it.

The idea that socialism is an accepted norm – I mean, I would never believe in a day you said the C-word communism. My grandparents fled the Soviet Union. They were Russian. The revolution happened. They were targeted because of their faith.

Their entire communities were wiped out, and they left to come to the land of freedom. They came in legally. It took my grandfather 14 years to get his citizenship. Amanda, my daughter-in-law, found my grandfather's certificate of citizenship signed by a U.S. District Court judge in Brooklyn, New York, online somewhere and blew it up, Sam Sekulow. There it is. It took him 14 years to become a citizen. And the rest is history in a sense.

I mean, I'm only the second generation of my family born in the United States. But we've got this mindset right now that anything goes, no parameters, and, you know, just give. And I am all for – look, I'm all for incentive, working with incentives. I think that's the American – that's what capitalism is. And I think employers have an obligation to share that with their employees. I think that's part of how we should do it.

But I don't want the government telling me how to do it. And that's the problem with what's going on right now. Rahm Emanuel famously said, never let a good crisis go to waste.

And that's exactly what they're doing right now. You know, the story of your family coming over, you know, I speak to people, too, that have come here as immigrants. Their parents were. And they say there's this Eastern European guy who's a great contractor here in Nashville that I hire all the time to do stuff. He's got the heavy accent and everything. It took him 11 years to become a citizen. And he says, John, the problem is Americans have never gone without what they have. They don't understand what it's actually like to live in a communist or socialist country. And the problem is, if it ever goes there, there's no reversing that. That's why we don't stay in our home countries hoping someday it's going to change, because it ain't going to change. And if it ever happens in America, we're stuck with it. That's why you call it the country of origin, but it's not the country of destination. My family's country of origin was Russia.

Their country of destination, the United States of America. Well, that's going to do it for the broadcast today. Now, in a few minutes – now, you're not going to see this today. But I'm going to get up in our band room upstairs in our studios here. And we're going to be paddling around with John Rich, playing a little guitar, singing a little songs. We're going to have a good time. It's a – America is back.

It's the summer. Got the whole band here. It's nice to have the guys not by virtual screens. And having John Rich here, of course, just adds so much to it. And again, follow John. He's got – he's on Twitter.

He's on Facebook, of course, Big and Rich, and so many other songs that he's done in his solo career. And now he's going to do a couple with our band. We're looking forward to that.

Again, have a great day, everybody. Stay tuned. Stay engaged at ACLJ.org. That's ACLJ.org.

We'll talk to you tomorrow. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today. ACLJ.org.