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April 5, 2021 4:00 am
Ms. Janet Mefford today podcast is brought to you in part by Bible league international.
We want to send 1500 Bibles to Africa through Bible leaves open the floodgates Bibles for Africa campaign. Five dollars sends one Bible and a matching grant will double your gift call now 800 yes word 800 yes word is generated wherever our confidence is in Christ alone, the Lord our God says that I sort them more popular and best known email Bible teachers in America day is the founder of living proof ministries. She's written many best-selling books and Bible studies. She's appeared for years and numerous conferences including her living proof live with Beth Moore events and she also has a TV show on TBN called living proof with Beth Moore a few weeks ago Beth Moore made huge headlines after announcing in an interview that she was no longer a Southern Baptist. This was very big news since she was a longtime Southern Baptist who got her start in ministry at a Southern Baptist Church and arguably has been the convention's most famous and most bankable female name now in recent years. Moore also has made a name for herself as a very intense anti-Trump or a me to advocate against sexual abuse and a decry her of alleged sexism, misogyny and white supremacy in evangelicalism and many Bible believing Christians have noticed her turn toward woke nests with increasing concern, but perhaps most concerning of all has been Moore's growing shift in influence on the issues of gender roles inside the church while she has referred to herself as a soft complementarity and she nonetheless created a firestorm in 2019.
When she tweeted that she be preaching at a Southern Baptist Church on Mother's Day later admitting I have brought a message from a pulpit in an SBC church service about 15 times in 40 years, which is in direct violation of Scripture.
Like first Timothy to.
She also was challenged over her decision to retroactively change what she wrote in one of her books about the sinfulness of homosexuality will now in the wake of her departure from the SBC liberal and liberal leaning women are rejoicing and handling her as a hero. One headline in the Dallas morning news read Beth Moore continues the historic movement for gender equality among evangelical women and other said for evangelical women who feel called to the ministry.
Beth Moore is an icon, so with Beth Moore as its inspiration could evangelicalism now be poised to depart even faster and further from the authority of God's word on the issue of leadership roles in the church and even the issue of sexuality.
Lots to talk about organ into at this hour with Amy supreme and Amy is the founder of Breen research, which exposes the deception about cults and movements taking the visible church down a wide path away from scriptural truth. She's founder as well of Naomi's table Bible studies for women and cohosts the podcast a word fitly spoken. Amy also was part of the group of women's Bible study. Teachers who penned an open letter to Beth Moore on the subject of homosexuality or in a talk with her about that as well and Amy just so great to have you with us. How are you doing great things are happening right now. It's great to have you here.
You have been following the ministry and the theology of Beth Moore.
I know for quite a while.
What are your thoughts on her recent departure from the Southern Baptist convention. I think a lot of it coming. Although she hinted her dissatisfaction with the FEC and the organization in general. Over the last month leading up to it so you know when when the church of the eye and I caught the visible church, Janet, because certainly the bride of Christ that the true church wouldn't be falling for the ways of the world, but when the little church went woke with critical race theory and feminism and intersection outing which is finding her victimhood on a grid and capitalizing on it more. Suddenly became this vocal champion of the church to movement will truly capitalize on the tragic victimhood of women and did that for the sake of political change and so we are to judge the fruit of all teachers not either humbleness or how greatly think they are, how cold they are or whether they're nice but into categories.
What they teach and how they behave and certainly this behavior has been shaping for a long time, so that when you talk about comparing it to Scripture. It it just doesn't compare it all by them. But yeah she she suddenly announced her departure from the Southern Baptist convention just a few weeks ago now.
March 9 I believe it was in the reading that she gave was because she will I speak out about abuse.
You know, so that's why they I no longer fit anymore.
She called out Christian for voting for Donald Trump after his alleged sexual after paint with women some years ago and because of her what she called her heroic stand on racism and so that you know religious new religion news service broke the story very biased on that March 19 that Beth was officially cutting ties with the SBC and with life way, which had published books or for many many years, but the story was barely making it look like that was a victim of discernment bloggers and other biblical leaders. Misogynists who are forcing her out. That kind of thing.
But the truth is, Janet. We've all been pointing out her un-biblical behaviors and teachings for years.
Any ill and she said she's been around for decades, but it really never really wild biblical found that now because of twitter. And because of how vocal she's been there were now seeing know who she is itself you know.
She tweeted back in January. Her tweet on the allegiance among some Southern Baptist for child and she said I don't know where I belong anymore, except I belong with Jesus I belong in his word I belong in a local church, but I no longer belong to a system so she was already thinking about her exit strategy that slow right it's interesting when you mention her dissatisfaction with Donald Trump because she had indicated that that whole situation in the Access Hollywood tape awakened her as one writer put it to the misogyny objectification and astonishing dis-esteem of women among Southern Baptist men and I think to about the 2018 letter that she put outs where she talked about how difficult it had been in the conservative evangelical world is a female. When I read through that again. I was thinking to myself doesn't doesn't sound that bad. I think there are others of us are in this industry and if experience may be the same sorts of stuff. And worse, but didn't go woke over it and didn't leave our denominations necessarily over it.
Not that I'm trying to discount her. Her problems are what went wrong in her life with some of these men are not trying to minimize that. But on the other hand, you have millions of women as you well know, Amy, who love Beth Moore love her teachings. There are men who love her. She has lots of followers on twitter. She has obviously a lot of liberal leaning women were especially psyched about her now that she's left the SBC, leaving a lot of Christians to wonder will where she headed. We don't quite know that yet. Though Dewey no dollars on right now she's being way quiet.
I haven't really had what her plans are to be teaching at Wheaton College in Christine hand propelled him women even vendors called evangelism and leadership. I believe it is… And as we know, Christine Kane teaches men to associate and she's part of movement that is very concerning the aorta faith in NAR new apostolic Reformation and so there are some concerns there because you actually there are several concerns with with Ashmore and one of them is that she teams up with no one half teachers.
But you know the other one she preaches to management refuses to call homosexuality as sin.
She uses her platforms to attack those who don't ascribe to yield the welcome is the critical race theory, and she asked discernment ministries for asking her to explain herself and it should clarify herself and of course she claims God gives her extra biblical vision and audible words for the church, which of course he does not now. Do we have his written word of the canon of Scripture is closed and and we can trust that as being sufficient.
And, and it's very very disturbing to me to go back to June 2020 in Christianity today Ryan Burge who is an assistant professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University had reported on a survey that he fielded with some other political scientists in 2020, and he reported that eight in 10 self identified evangelicals said they agree with women teaching Sunday school leading worship at church services and preaching during women's conferences or retreats slightly fewer, but this is still a huge number and this is really concerning slightly fewer seven in 10 endorsed women preaching during church services.
According to this research now that really raises some red flags here because he points out that it doesn't even have much to do with the fact that people go to conservative churches, Bible believing churches versus liberal churches were more liberal churches on the scale and evangelicalism.
This means that when Beth Moore is getting hailed for her shift in gender roles in her promotion of women appearing in churches and preaching from the pulpit she's tapping into a bigger movement were to get into more on were to come back with Amy spring inherent in an effort to the ministry of pre-born saves babies lives and souls by meeting moms where they are and introducing them to their pre-born babies through ultrasound as soon as I saw the heartbeat was over I cried the hottest tears I've ever cried and I thought a fire in my belly and in my soul and God touched me. That day she pierced my heart for my child and I felt love pre-born stands in the gap for abortion minded women across America by providing free ultrasounds and the lifesaving message of Jesus Christ. When a mother sees her baby on ultrasound and here's the baby's heartbeat shall choose life. 8/10 times for your gift of $140 today you can help rescue five pre-born babies lives. Call now 855402 baby 855-402-2229. All gifts are tax-deductible. There's a pre-born banner to click a Janet Mefford.com or call now 855-402-2229 hi this is Janet Mefford.
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What are you waiting for discover more about the power of email@example.com/GMT today more information call 855-585-4237 855-585-4237 or liberty help her.org/GMT liberty help shared.org/empty you're listening to Janet Mefford today and know we are back one of the biggest stories and evangelicalism of late, had to do with the very popular women's Bible study leader Beth Moore, Beth Moore. He does lots of conferences and appearances in his Lotta best-selling books is extremely popular and a lot of evangelical circles, and she made a lot of waves when she announced, via a religion news service article of a few weeks back that she is no longer a Southern Baptist after really being a very bankable star.
Probably the biggest female star in the Southern Baptist convention as far as selling her materials and resources all through life way, but any experiment is with us and she is talking a little bit with me about Beth Moore.
I had quoted from this survey that was done last year.
Amy Ryan Burge in Christianity today. It indicated that three quarters as he says of the most devout evangelicals believe that women should have a place behind the pulpit and of course Beth Moore came to your attention on. I know a lot of other people's attention a few years back when she had said that she had preached on Mother's Day a Southern Baptist Church and then indicated she had preached 15 times in the past 40 years, and I guess he was trying to minimize that that wasn't that much, but it's still 16 times that we know of that she prays for the pulpit.
Let's talk a little bit about what the Bible has to say on this subject because we're not popular nowadays. Amy, I'm looking at these figures and I'm thinking, what were increasingly in the minority, but at least were saying let's go back to the Bible and see what the Bible actually says tell me your view on this whole thing will I might be with Scripture.
Janet I and you know first K-12 that you know a call telling me about how were setting up the church and about how he does not allow a woman to teach or have already over nine and and and in the acclaim of the other than the gathering of the church and anytime the Bible is being taught it. Women are supposed to be teaching then we can teach women with can certainly teach children, but I know this round people the wrong way, but this is what God word so out we need to align our opinions with God's word at Yale. Even if our flesh like it and what was really interesting though is this wave of social justice. The waves washing over the modern church really is in the survey does not surprise me at all if shape shifting the roles of men and women in the minds of people because were seeing feminism take over women's ministries like you would not believe both inside and anything outside of church and as well in ministries and now people who once a few years ago, gifted, how, when, and called themselves soft complementarity and which really is is not complement carrying it up there showing their true colors that they are egalitarian demanding gender inequality and for those you don't know complementarity and is him is just a belief that God created men and women for different purposes and that they complement each other by staying true to these God-given general and biblical faith, not abusive or anything like that, regardless of whether or not human beings have painted over the years, but he's a gal experience will demand for gender equality and pain down my patriarchy is, their buzzwords and dealt no go from claiming biblical womanhood and complementary and might set up a culture of abuse or things like that to them stating confidently.
A few years later where we are now that our God, our danger, roles are now long and whatever God intended. Was not this is an God really say and so you know you're staying. This movement coming and and I it and it's not not something that we want to be following but unfortunately Beth edges that has a lot of fierce followers who really don't like being challenged to think about what the Bible says well this is important.
You had mentioned Scripture and I'm going for example to first contains 14.
The women should keep silent in the churches. This is beginning with verse 34 for they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission is the law also says there's anything they desire to learn. Let them ask their husbands at home for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church, then you have first Timothy 211 through 14, let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness I do not permit a woman to teach, as you mention, or to exercise authority over a man, rather than she is to remain quiet for Adam was born first, then Eve and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor so both of these passages Amy are teaching the same thing that a ruling authoritative role in the church is not for women and is in fact unbecoming to them, but this is falling on really deaf ears in the visible church now when you're looking at some of the numbers in this survey and it is concerning because if we don't stand on the authority of God's word on what it says. How are we at church anymore. You either have a Bible or you don't. It would seem to me and I know that we can disagree on more minor points.
But if you're moving in a direction of saying because I don't like misogyny. Men have mistreated mere men sexually abuse me, I'm upset about the me to movement and that all of a sudden you make the leap into.
Therefore, women can be in the pulpit you're not getting that from the Bible the New Testament nowhere makes a case that women are to be in authority over men and authoritative role in the church.
It teaches the direct opposite.
So what you see going on here. As far as our view of the Bible itself is more evidence of the great falling away that Jesus whined about you know any church with a woman pastor at the helm is not a biblical church at all and and I'll get great for saying that but it's true and without fail when ever you see women pastors or churches that allow teachers like Beth Moore to take over the helm. On Sunday morning, you look you with that rocket you look underneath and you see on biblical teachings and everything else false doctrines like the new apostolic Reformation or word of faith here is the name and climate. There just aren't any doctrinally sound women teachers out there who preached and because would be too convenient for you and the trajectory that if you follow these churches along over the years, almost always leads to a weakening stance on what God calls and particularly when it comes to embracing the LGBT Q movement so I can yield vast does each man she she has for many years.
She started out doing this it women conferences she's preached at pastors conferences. She treats Sunday morning services like you said ML can't come to light. When she tweets me saying she's proud of it. Associate willingly and proudly admits that she is a woman teacher preaching in churches.
What right and she talked about how she was in the conservative movement you know most of her ministry years and tried to abide by what was expected of her, but she never kicked men out necessarily mean she's kinda what about line and you know said, I believe in this, and I believe you have a soft complementarity and in all these kinds of things but kinda left the?
Hanging what what I find interesting. Amy is when you bring the question of woke nests into the discussion which you have to because of all her recent comments about social justice and white supremacy in the church and all these kinds of comments the hermeneutic of social justice is always what drives the hurt that the understanding on their part about why women should be pastors. It's not fair.
I have gifts I have abilities God loves women to God.
His giving gifts to women.
Why would he exclude us, but it stops there. It stops in so many ways and I've experienced this. All of my life going back to you know, many years ago when I was more involved with the liberal side of Christianity. This is what it is. It's not fair. The problem here is that when were talking about women teaching men. It's a direct violation of Scripture. And it has nothing to do with whether or not you have gifts or abilities. It's a matter authority and the order of creation. How do we get that message out there to a lot of women who just don't understand what's going on here is far as the lens through which a lot of these feminists are reading the Bible well. Discipleship and unfortunately we will a lot of that are languishing the shift away from that in many of the modern church is where you now and instead of actually working with women one-on-one or in small groups to daddy the actual Bible. What were studying is somebody else's opinion piece or another book about you know your feelings and your experience of many of Beth Moore's Bible studies do exactly that which we talk more about yielding experiences and funny stories and that kind of thing and and we miss getting to the nuggets of truth that are sprinkled all over the entire lot Bible is God's truth is