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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Carol Tobias (Abortion Report) Patrick Prill (Atheists)

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The Truth Network Radio
January 26, 2021 4:00 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Carol Tobias (Abortion Report) Patrick Prill (Atheists)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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January 26, 2021 4:00 am

What are some of the key pro-life legislative developments across America? Carol Tobias, president of National Right to Life, joins me to share details from its latest report, "The State of Abortion in the United States." Plus: How do we respond to some of the ridiculous assertions of the New Atheists? I'll talk it over with Patrick Prill, author of the book, "Things Atheists Say That Simply Make No Sense." That and more on Tuesday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby.

That's 855-402-2229 or Janet is our confidence is in Christ alone is sort of cast is brought to you in part by finally five dollars. You can send one Bible to the persecuted Christian overseas and we really love your great work be a Bible center today by calling 800 yes word that's 800 yes, word five dollars for Bible changing people's lives around the world. What a great opportunity 800 yes word. Let's talk just briefly about what is sure to be an interesting start to February in a few days and that is when the don't want to be over the top with my rhetoric. I'll just say House Speaker Pelosi miss hair salon Pelosi I don't know maybe they did something more to her head than just brush her hair. I don't know cut her hair. She is just beyond description sometimes and what she's doing so in trying to move forward and impeach and remove Pres. Trump. This is their goal. The Democrats want to impeach and remove Pres. Trump who is now former Pres. Trump left office without causing any big splashy left, just like he said he would leave and that was it. And now they have to go back having impeach him for a second time and try to see if the Senate will will not remove them from office because he's already removed himself from office because his term expired a new president was sworn in, but there to make sure that he can't ever run for office again.

Now, on the one hand, you could look at this is insane. Which I believe it is or unconstitutional which a number of legal minds have said it is but you can also look at it as a sign that they are continually worried about Donald Trump. What else can you say about all of the efforts that they mounted over the previous four years to do away with him politically. Whether it was the Russia gate hoax or the Ukrainian phone call hoax or all of the naughtiness surrounding the events of last summer with the writing in the looting and the burning in the killing who could put up with that. I still am amazed when I pray for Pres. Trump and I do. I am still amazed that one person was put through everything that he was put through during the past four years. Why can't they just let him go because he continues to have the support of so many Americans who, especially after Pres. Biden entered office and started doing all kinds of draconian things are quickly saying oh we need a leader though.

We need a leader. All we have to go back to the kind of America that was supported by the Trump administration that this is interesting. David Catron over at the American Spectator says the Trump impeachment is dead on arrival in the Senate and contends that Pres. Trump will neither be convicted nor barred from holding public office, which is optimistic point of view, I would say Pres. Biden and Congressional Democrats have an opportunity to move beyond what they have routinely characterized as the chaos of the Trump era. Yet, having finally succeeded in evicting him from the White House and getting them censored by the various social media platforms they plan to drag the bad orange man back into the spotlight first show trial that even left of center. Legal scholars have declared unconstitutional by definition now. The show will be a flop is his opinion on this is Prof. emeritus at Harvard Law school, Alan Dershowitz wrote at the Wall Street Journal now that Donald Trump is a private citizen, the Senate should dismiss the article of impeachment against him for lack of jurisdiction. Beyond the Constitution. There are strong policy and historical reasons and incoming administration shouldn't seek recriminations against its predecessor right.

How would you like to set the stage for every incoming president to impeach the guy who just left office, which would help ensure the guy who's currently in office.

Another term because he shamed his predecessor and then when he leaves the next guy does it. I think we've already reached that point of no return with using impeachment for purely political reasons, and I think most Americans recognize this, at least most clear thinking Americans recognize what these people are doing it is a show trial. It's a been the Soviet Union would be proud.

There's no reason to do this other than the fact that they don't want him to return to public office, and they are still very concerned about the fact that he might try and he might succeed. Although who knows with the way voting goes. These days, but that's another question.

Senate Republicans also. This is quite interesting are getting cold feet.

According to the Hill Republican say the chances that former Pres. Trump will be convicted in an impeachment trial are plummeting only five or six Republican senators at the most, seem likely to vote for impeachment far fewer than the number needed GOP sources say they have observed. This is interesting, the angry response to House Republican conference, chairwoman Liz Cheney, who is facing calls to resign from the house GOP leadership team after she voted last week to impeach Trump.

Frankly, it is my opinion that all those people need to be primary all his people need to be primary. I am tired of the preening and the posturing and the posing by the Jeff flakes of the GOP who love to slap and are on the end of their names as they seek office and sound really nice. And then they get into office and they turn on who they should be supporting.

I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of it and I'm well aware that on the Democrat side of the aisle.

The left is purged all of the all of the dissenters out of their own party.

There is another pretty much monolithic on the left and are not necessarily of the opinion that that's always a good thing to be monolithic, but on the other hand, this is not a time for all of these GOP congressmen and senators to stand up and slam their own party and slam their own base continually and slam their own president from their own party.

The left doesn't do that one is doing that all the time and I think the people of had enough of it. I think that's what the Trump era has really ushered in the voice of the people who are no longer willing to play business as usual and to vote for people because they have and are behind their name. I think a lot of people on the Republican side of the aisle have had enough of that nonsense. So that would be a good thing.

Liz Cheney obviously got in trouble in Wyoming with her own people. So if they're taking that as a sign of things to come, then that that's probably a good thing. Now this is interesting. Sen. Josh Holly you know has been under fire because he was one of the senators who is concerned about the election results, and he wrote a piece over at the New York Post, it's time to stand up against the muzzling of America and you can read this, he talks about the fact that his book deal was canceled and he's had all these people come after him, but he says it's gonna get worse.

It's gonna get worse. The tech Titans have already booted dozens of conservatives off social media and if they have their way.

Half the House Republicans conference will be expelled from Congress, the corporate titans seem to believe that the only way to get a democracy to their liking is to eliminate all threats to the Democratic Party's unified control of government.

The alliance of leftists and woke capitalists hopes to regulate the innermost thoughts of every American from school-age to retirement and they've trained enforcers of the woke orthodoxy to monitor dissent or behavior. This behavior I should say a Karen who cuts the wrong person. Often, traffic gets followed home on a live stream and shamed into crying for mercy as her license plate is broadcast to an online horde, eager to hound her out of a job and everyone knows it can happen to them. So everyone shuts and the circle of trust narrows and conversations too easily recorded shift to encrypted messaging apps for now until those get banned to for interfering and efficient social credit markets and one of his points in this article is what your social credit score.

This is something we talked about on the show before China has the social credit score are you shopping at all the places you want to shop if you're in China and you don't go to the right places or you don't know the right people, you may not be able to do the way you do life the way you want to do it, or go where you want to go because they're gonna make sure that you do what they want you to do. I want that kind of country do you I don't want that kind of country and his argument is the cancel culture agenda will only succeed if we let it. We need live in fear only if we choose to say nothing and in this time of testing. Conservatives must not shrink back. We need to stand up for the right of every American to be heard. He did this by the way, and I thought this was great.

He's called for an ethics investigation into Democrats who filed the ethics complaint against him goes Sen. Holly Because they filed an ethics complaint against him and Sen. Cruz over their electoral college objections and you know this is the way you have to do it. I remember Tucker Carlson was under fire from the left and they were trying to. I don't even remember what they were complaining about. They have so many things that drive them nuts every day but they were going after his advertisers and he stood up and he said I'm I'm not apologizing.

And I'm not to capitulate and I'm gonna stand my ground and go away and guess what they did they did go away because he was strong enough to stand up to the bullies and I think we need many more people in Congress who have a good head on their shoulders. Who will say I'm not going to take the bullying anymore. I'm in a stand up for my country and for what is right. A lot had stay with us here on Janet Mefford today hi this is Janet Mefford here to tell you about the ministry of pre-born sons as everything from air really live there made it all worthwhile to know the I was in a have a little listening when she got a resists you just heard a real life testimony from a woman whose life was changed by the Ministry of pre-born. You see, when a young woman considering abortion sees her baby on ultrasound and here's the heartbeat, she almost always chooses life for her pre-born baby had a hard sided keeper in the window is about to be.

I don't know where my life without her pre-born steps into the darkest corners and finds women in need to help them choose life.

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Again, call toll-free 855402 baby or there's a banner to you're listening to Jonah's Mefford for years. Joe now that we have a radical pro-abortion administration in the White House. We have to focus even more on saving babies lives. There are some notable legislative threats ahead that could be devastating for the cause of life showing why we have to keep up the fight, but there also have been some solid gains for the pro-life movement and the details are available now a national right to life's eighth annual reports on the state of abortion in the United States here to tell us more about it is Carol Tobias, president of National right to life so great to hear Carol how are you thank you Janet I am doing great. Well, I am so glad that you guys put out this report. It's always so helpful to kind of encapsulate the state of the movement and what kinds of challenges are ahead. And certainly we have a lot always. These numbers just break my heart.

62.5 million abortions. That's what you're estimating the cumulative total is up to now year 2 million from 1973 since Roe V Wade was legalized. Micah Dennis and and it's interesting though because you said that these are not the peak as far as the annual number of abortions.

It it's not at a peak as of the latest data is that correct here in 1990 we saw the highest number of abortion ever with 1.6 million unborn children being killed by abortion.

The numbers have now dropped a little more than 800,000 a year which means that the number of women who are choosing life for their babies has increased dramatically elite. We are quite half of the all-time peak of 1990, but we are getting close and I think that is a huge success for the pro-life movement and that should encourage us to keep working, keep fighting to keep saving those babies that we can drop those numbers even more that that is good news. And like you said it's a Holocaust. Either way, but to see the numbers going down is always preferable.

Would you say that primarily the reason that those numbers are falling is due to the work. The pro-life has movement has done to show the humanity of children or is it also due to the note, the number of abortion clinics going down or those kinds at the things in combination no reason for the numbers that were seen.

I think the numbers are dropping because women are just deciding they don't want to kill their unborn child are not going through with the abortion, the pro-life movement has done a fantastic job in educating and reaching out to our annual fellow citizens, telling them that the unborn child of the human being that need to be protected. We have seen an explosion of pregnancy resource centers that are providing all kinds of amazing help and support to a pregnant woman who does find yourself in a difficult circumstance.

She's pregnant, but isn't quite sure you know what to do or how to handle the circumstances in her particular life in her case, we have been passing legislation and legislation even not protect unborn children also has a great educational value. American people are hearing about unborn babies who can feel pain. Babies who are being dismembered. No dying because they have their arms and legs torn off in an abortion procedure.

Babies who have heartbeat email. We were just really getting out there who are now ill many many years ago when a baby was born. That was the first baby picture yelled, wrapped in a pink or blue blanket Lena lying in mom's arms. Now the first baby picture is that ultrasound's so all of the young kids that are yield high school teenage college email even the millennial years. Their first picture with an ultrasound. So how do they look at that and say that with me before birth, but it's okay to kill someone else at that same state. So I think they're just a lot of things that have all been coming together to encourage women not to get an abortion if they find themselves pregnant. Unexpectedly, I hadn't thought about that before the effect that those ultrasounds will have in a whole new generation who is just used to them and especially when you see some of these 3D and I think I think there even 4D ultrasound pictures now are there you can really see the baby Floridian there in color, and you can look at the baby and say now she's got mom smile or that daddy's nose yet.

I really got have an impact. I think an inward building becoming so common.

Everybody is feeding them on Facebook because friends are posting any other pictures that it's hard to deny that unborn child as a human being. That should be protected totally right now. Let's go to some of the threats that we are facing with the pro-abortion administration. Pres. Biden has already said, despite what the Supreme Court might do with the Roe decision.

He wants to codify Roe into law which Chino sends chills down the spines of pro-lifers, but we also have the threat that the Hyde amendment will be taken away. Can you talk about some of these threats and in which ones you know really are of great concern and and how we tackle these kinds of threats as were moving into the next four years. I would say any and all of them are great concern because Pres. Biden and VP Harris have committed to pushing forward an agenda that would allow abortion for all nine months of pregnancy for any reason, with no limits whatsoever. We were all kind of shocked and appalled when some of the states. You know, even two years ago like New York and then Vermont and Rhode Island, Chicago, Illinois.

They were passing these bills to say you were to remove all protections for unborn children in the laws were going to have abortion with no limit for all nine months of pregnancy. That is what the Biden Harris administration wants to do on a national level they want our laws to have no limits whatsoever on abortion and they want to push that at a national level. I certainly hope and don't think they will be successful with that but they do have a majority in the house and with, let Harris as the presiding officer in the Senate, they would have a majority in the Senate if they are able to get rid of the filibuster. Who knows what kind of damage they could do. They have stated very clearly. They want to get rid of the Hyde amendment because they want our tax dollars to pay for abortion to pay for the killing of unborn children in the Medicaid program but they would like to get rid of all limits so that abortion is discovered in any health insurance plan, especially any federal health insurance plan that has federal subsidies on many of those arising out of Obama care. This they want to do past the equal rights amendment which would say that basically since only women can get pregnant, you cannot discriminate against them and deny them a surgical procedure that men can't. You have no use for in the abortion so they are going to be coming after the unborn children and their mothers. In many ways and pro-lifers just need to be alert and be looking now to groups like National right to life, to know when they need to be making their voices here heard very loudly very clearly with their members of Congress and not to let some of these things pass all that so important.

It's kind of funny when you had mentioned that one of their arguments is you can't discriminate because only women can get pregnant isn't it a thing with the left that they call them pregnant. People now.

I mean, can we turn that on the head and say, wait a minute you guys the same one saying people from both sexes can get pregnant. It seems they can pretty much say anything they want to say and get away with it. Sometimes they are certainly doing their best to get away with it were not going to let them yes that's so important. The array also just to touch on this briefly because I've talked about this over the last year when they've been trying to get this momentum to bring back the ERA the ERA is dead right Carol, I mean it didn't get enough states to ratify it back in the 70s and the whole you know the thing with Phyllis Schlafly. People remember that history how the world can you revive the ERA given the fact that it's dead. Congress need two thirds of the House and the Senate passed the bill and I have to go to the state 20 three fourths of the state legislatures to adopt the Congress in 19 $0.72 an equal rights amendment to the state. 35 of them passed it, but when needed they needed 38 welded the 1979 deadline seven years to ratify it came and went. Congress tried to extend that 1982, the Supreme Court said the other deadline is over.

So now in 2021. Some members of Congress are coming forward saying we want to change the 1979 deadline for ratification to and then you'll give them a couple of years to allow more states to come forward so they are trying to use a majority vote in Congress to amend a constitutional amendment which takes two thirds vote and they're going to all kinds of hoops. Fortunately, we have had some really amazing judges put on the federal bench over the last four years and I certainly hope and expect that they will now say hogwash when this comes before them, if it ever get that far yet you cannot amend the Constitution in such a flaky manner he just seems like they're getting so desperate on the abortion issue.

They're going further and further left all the time and when you see the gains that the pro-life movement is making in the hearts and minds of people will this backfire. As sometimes the really radical parts of the left's agenda tend to backfire. Do you see that potentially happening Carol that people will push back and say you people are nuts. This is not the will of the American people. I do when New York State two years ago after locked if they were to remove all protections for unborn children. We were lauded with calls from people saying I can't believe they're doing that.

I know I'm there.

I'm finally waking up to was happening to what can I do and I think we would see that again if Congress pushes too far and that's why were trying to make a big issue out of the born alive abortion survivor's protection act. If a baby survive the abortion and is still living then that baby should get the same care and medical treatment as another baby born prematurely and another email institution or a for facility anywhere that they can get that same care and the Democrats in Congress are fighting it. If the intent of the abortion was to end up with a dead baby.

Then they abortionist and those with him in the room should not have any responsibility for taking care of a baby that actually survived the abortion that most people would think that crazy and yet that's where our opponents in the whole battle are well.

It's just such a big fight ahead but were really grateful for National right to life, and Carol Tobias, Carol, thank you so much for your hard work and for giving us an update on your wonderful report.

Happy to do it.

Thank you Dan all right you take care and This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet Joe Mefford today. Here's your host Joe Mefford faith is belief without evidence. Every instance of faith is dangerous so said Sam Harris is one of the noteworthy new atheists who have made such a big splash in recent years, but the first part of that quote faith is belief without evidence. While Hebrews 11 one says.

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. But what is our Christian faith based upon historical events. The empty tomb of Jesus Christ and this is just one example of some of the absurdities that come out of the mouths of these intelligent but foolish atheists who are influencing so many people.

How do we respond to some of these ridiculous assertions were to get some help on it today from author Patrick Prill. He talks about it in his book things atheists say that simply make no sense to love the title Patrick. It's great to have you with us. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you to edit it later. Thank you. There is no God.

This is one of the silly things that make no sense that atheists tend to say that seems to be the root foolish thing that atheists believe did these people understand that in order to assert that there is no God. You would have to have knowledge of everything I made today understand that basic point.

While it seemed not that the challenges and the naturalistic worldview. Atheism is actually the presumption so there their whole view of reality is based upon a fundamental assumption that the physical is all there is survivor approach life that way. Then of course there's no God, because the only tools that I'm going to use to make the decision are based upon purely the tools of naturalism which can't answer that question.

Well, that's exactly right.

So when you're talking about naturalism tell people what that entails. People will be familiar obviously with the naturalistic worldview.

But why is it that naturalism just operates on this assumption that there is no God. What is the connection there. Well, when you look at naturalism.

There's a lot of different definitions based upon whether you look at it from the standpoint of philosophy or the natural sciences.

I like to simplify it and think of naturalism as 13 Lane Hwy.

The first lane in the highway is where you're looking at the world, basically through the eyes of matter. So the physical is all there is. The second lane is looking at the world, primarily through the eyes of biology in the third lane is looking at the world, primarily through the eyes of people doubt the challenge with naturalism is you do have some people who kind of approach there naturalism and stick to one lane you have others that want to continually change lanes. So when you're trying to have a conversation with someone who embraces naturalism its first really essential to find out what lanes are driving it through yet right so when you're looking at you have a conversation with somebody who looks at the laying of, say, looking at the world through matter what their argument sound like when you try to have a conversation about the potential existence of God today.

Just refused to even consider the possibility because there's so committed to the naturalistic worldview they essentially are not a good example… And one named Alex Rosenberg who is a professor at Duke University. He was the head of the philosophy department at Duke brilliant man PhD from Johns Hopkins is his worldview is called scientism, and so the way that he looks at the world is that people in a way, aren't really people are just lumps of matter, people have no intrinsic value. The universe has no purpose or meaning, and therefore you don't either morality is something that exists only based upon evolution, but not in reality he says there really is no right or wrong event to apply morality and form of ethics is really difficult because to him. No one deserves punishment or reward because you do what you do because of what physics tells you to do so when you look at a worldview like that through the eyes of matter that has a fundamental assumption that there is no God. It's really really tough to have conversations about other important things like good people have value for morality in the world. How do you plan ethics right that it makes all those conversations difficult, and you asked the question, then it would seem the next logical leap would be to say so it's okay if I still your car then Dr. Rosenberg is it okay if I burn your house to the ground. You don't have any belief in right and wrong. This is all just kind of random happenstance that were all living out. I mean, at some point, these people live out contradictions. Don't they went. When they're confronted with this nice pie-in-the-sky ideal that all know there is no right and wrong, and there's no God and there is no punishment and yet it's built into them by God that there is a right and a wrong. I mean do you find that with most that most of these atheists. They run up against that guy I gave an example of the book of the conversation that my high school daughter had years ago and it was a young lady who was from Asia who basically contended that there is no God, and therefore that there is no right and wrong and my daughter ask the simple question that it's okay to murder someone in the girl respond.

Oh no you shouldn't murder anyone. And then my daughter responded well what you mean shouldn't if there's no right or wrong.

There's no such thing you should shouldn't yes to anything you want.

Yeah so so even a high school girl who's from an atheist worldview recognizes morality even though they don't claim that morality exists yeah that's interesting well and you also point out in the book that this idea that science disproves God. This is a rather new argument is it to mean. This is not something that people have always said throughout time that science is the be all and all actually fairly new. It used to be that most you said that God cannot be proven or disproven and what the leap is now is that that God can be built proven and what they kind of do is they take this idea of the God of the gaps and they turn it in reverse and what they've basically say is you have to prove that the universe can't exist without a God so you know they say that God has to appear in all of those gaps. This is actually pretty terrible approach for them because the gaps are so significant that the gaps actually do prove and in many respects, but there is a God that always set the pace not just for you. A couple of examples.

There's a great book by Faisal Lana called the cell's design or not. I highly recommend it and that he pointed out a number of things and this is a couple of examples, DNA and protein for people who are in the biology so he pointed out that proteins can't be produced without DNA, but DNA can't reproduce without approaching out of the circular biological process like that again. There is no answer. So that's a gap that you don't fit for Stanger would would claim it would not necessarily disprove God but but which actually does suggest that there is a God. Another one. He points out our proteins make other proteins so this is another circular process where self-pay proteins from amino acids acids and then they were to make proteins and then they use the same proteins to make other proteins.

So to circular process of of proteins and amino acids. Basically using each other in a circular loop and biology can't answer. How the hell process like that begins.

That's interesting. The biggest one for me. I actually think is the minimum genome size.

Where does Elrod pointed out that it requires 1300 to 2300 different gene products to have one cell that the massive amount of information. Yes, structured information for single celled exist and the atheist can't respond to that. They don't know how that happens. That's interesting today just kinda gloss over it. When confronted with that sort of dilemma. Well, I think the new I guess phenomenon is that atheists are basically trying to deal with the whole idea of the beginning of the universe and the challenges in the universe, whether it's of the laws of nature consciousness or the biology of itself a massive amount of information is embedded within laws. Biology and consciousness so if all of this happened naturally and it challenges biologically. There are no biological processes where information can come in very interesting hang on a moment will come back with Patrick hurled his book things atheists say that simply makes no sense. Will be back on Jennifer today. The healthcare open enrollment period has ended. In most states. Did you miss it.

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His book is called things atheists say that simply makes no sense and it's very interesting to look at how science seems to be the be all and all for a lot of these, especially new atheists. And yet there are many points at which they have difficulty talking themselves out of what is problematic via atheism.

You are bringing up the subject Patrick before we went to the break.

For example, of consciousness and you were talking about, you know, trying to come to a conclusion about the origins of the life and the origins of the world. But isn't that one of the standard arguments that you can't explain consciousness have they made any gains whatsoever in trying to come up with an explanation for consciousness absence, the existence of God, really, to have it and I think it's really telling Colin McGann, native philosopher, basically says that with consciousness. It's almost like something new was injected into the fabric of the universe so different in it and he calls a miraculous but yet he doesn't believe in God so here you have a miracle staring at him in the face a new thing that interjected into the fabric of the universe, but yet he still claims a few so interesting in this kind of brings us to this question about religion because there's an awful lot of animosity that a lot of these atheists have toward religion religion causing all the wars and religion ruining everything in religion, being evil in these sorts of things. If they believe that religion really isn't valid any religion. I would imagine, but especially you know Christianity. What is so mad about anyhow the world can you be mad at something that doesn't exist. Great point. I find it really amusing that Richard Dawkins declares war on God yes yes how can you declare war on something which you don't believe exists.

That's it that's it but but I mean how do we deal with some of these allegations.

For example, that religion is responsible for the wars in the world and and these evil Christians have done such such damage to the world I think is at root there and and how do you respond when an atheist goes in that direction will boy that I responded is because I love history of ideas actually went back and looked at the data, so I went back and I looked at the FBI crime reports and 2013 and of the roughly 1.2 million crimes in America you have less than 1/10 of 1% of all violent crime having anything to do with religious bias, which to me. It's interesting because roughly 90% of people in America believe in God. This is one of the most religious nations on earth. Religion caused war cause conflict surely would show up in the FBI crime data, and it doesn't. And when you look 14 wars. The United States is has fought history the only war that had anything to do with religion. In fact, with the war on terror and not were only 7/10 of 1% of all war crimes from the Geneva United States network crimes, war debt were attributable to religious data in the United date doesn't hold us up at all and I looked at ancient empires.

I lie look at the Roman Empire over the course of 900 years and not a single war was caused by religion. The advancement religion or anything to do with religion that's that's is pretty telling. It's very telling and that's a little hard to refute when you look at the hard data that's good you know when were talking about Christianity in particular. I also find it noteworthy that you have certain atheists tipping their hat as it were, to Jesus not bowing to him as Lord. Certainly what you make of that.

All we will will take Jesus is a good guy.

He was a moral teacher. All these kinds of problems that CS Lewis dealt with it. You can't just take them as a good teacher because he didn't claim. Just to be a good teacher but what are you seeing from some of these new atheists in regard to how they see Jesus why I found it interesting when you look at people even like Bertrand Russell who, in a way the father of modern atheism. Your Bertrand Russell admired fuses with morality and then you have people like Richard Dawkins who thinks that Jesus is intelligent based upon an interview he did Guardian magazine website and he also basically acknowledges that Jesus was a highly moral person so you do get back into the CS Lewis question of if Jesus is highly intelligent. He likely is not crazy if Jesus was highly moral. He likely was not lying. So you kinda have to do with the question of if Jesus isn't lying. It is not crazy baby who telling the truth. Yes, what now do you hold to the view that, at root, what is going on with many of these atheists would be morality, not so much wrestling with the data that you've mentioned or even things like all of the historical evidence that there is of the empty tomb of Jesus. The 500 witnesses. The veracity and the truthfulness of the Bible.

Is it really morality to believe at root that is separating at least the lion share of these atheists. From this the possibility that they need to embrace the existence of God is that really what's going on with them. Do you think actually I think it's a lot more involved in that. And for some, I do think that's the issue, but I think for others when I as I've gone back and I've kind of read a lot of their stories. It was really striking to me how many were orphans.

Really, it was striking to me how many were raised in British boarding schools. It was striking to me how many were raised in an environment where intellect and kind of like a better terms, the intellectual pride and arrogance of the day, you know, suggested that you're not a scholar.

If you believe in God will. There's a lot of reasons that I was really struck by for all of these atheists it out just like people to believe in God, they believe for many reasons for people to be an atheist. There's many reasons sure that that that question of intelligence strikes me as an important one because you address. For example, in your book this claim that they think if you believe in God, you're not intelligent I see this brittle people talking like this all the time. They truly believe I'm so smart I'm an atheist and anybody who doesn't go down the road Iver. I've gone down clearly isn't smart what what strikes me though about that statement is. If you're so smart, how did you get to be so smart through with your natural selection.

I didn't and couldn't it be possible that there's someone even smarter than you who created you exactly exactly. And I think the thing that troubles me about perspective also goes for lack of better term, I call it intellectual naturalism. So here you have again appointed Richard Dawkins yet. He points to the intellectual elite and how such a massive percent of the intellectual we do not believe in God but but who he points to the Royal Society and that the group of about 1700 scientists so our 1705 one who are going to determine for the rest of the planet whether God exists or not you.

I really don't think so. Well, no, I don't think so either, and it's it's also striking to me that when they talk about. There's no meaning to life, and this is again an outgrowth of their believing naturalism. What are they looking for to give them meaning. I mean, if they've already concluded that there is no meaning to life and you know none of this matters are those who hold to scientism.

Why are they here why they stay here and I mean it is an honest question. Why do they remain here if they believe there's no meaning. How does man survive if he believes there is no meaning to life.

I think that's the question that a lot of them are really dealing with. And so I'll use Alex Rosenberg example again. He claims that there is no meaning in and no purpose in life, but he gets up any teachers class every day and I never met him personally, but someone who I have spoken with who does know him says he treats people as though there they have value. He seems like a decent human being. He's not an ogre. He evidently is a nice man but he's a nice man who yelled is seeking to fill this void with something when he claims that there is nothing to fill it with. But yet he suggests that we know basically pursue a life of being nice because it makes us feel better than not being nice and so his implied purpose is pleasure or feeling good. You know when he can't point to anything else. And so that it that tells me that you have to have a reason to live, even if it even if you make up one of your own.

You have to have a reason to live and and even the people who claim that there is none.

Basically implicitly embrace one will they do and yet that's a pretty shallow reason to live is pleasure when in fact, life is full of pain. Boy what a good book is called things atheists say that simply make no sense. Patrick Pro with us Patrick so good to have you here. Thank you so much for being with us today and you bad. Thank you for being with us here on Janet Mefford today.

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