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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Kevin Thompson (Marriage) Maurice Roberts (Sanctification)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
November 13, 2020 5:00 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Kevin Thompson (Marriage) Maurice Roberts (Sanctification)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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November 13, 2020 5:00 am

Is happiness really the goal of marriage, or does God have more in mind for us? I'll talk it over with Kevin Thompson, a marriage and parenting conference speaker and lead pastor at Community Bible Church in western Arkansas. His book is called, "HAPPILY: 8 Commitments of Couples Who Laugh, Love and Last." Plus: The Rev. Maurice Roberts answers the question, "How Do I Develop Heavenly Mindedness and Spiritual Conversation?" That and more on Friday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by liberty health sheer liberty healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health for more information liberty Janet River today.

Our confidence is in Christ alone is so is and will there's a reason and they live happily ever after.

Because that's what feels best for us to believe in the Prince and the Princess get married. Everything is perfect but what about us, is happiness really the goal of marriage, or is there more to it when joining me now is Kevin Thompson he's marriage and parenting conference speaker and also lead Pastor at community Bible Church in Western Arkansas and today will be talking about his book. It is called happily ate commitments of couples who laugh, love, and last I like that Kevin so good to have you here already with you. It's my honor to have you here. I think you say something really good right at the outset you say happiness was never intended to be the main focus of marriage, and I thought what few million people who need to hear that today aren't there no doubt we all have the contrary, by never we pursue after happiness. Primarily, we tend not to get it yet. Whatever we pursue after commitment after log up your cross building a healthy relationship. Happiness tends to be the byproduct of those wise choices.

And so that's why we have a commitment but really are fine.

They come from Jesus and yet whenever we tend to obey them and apply them to our relationships. The byproduct of that tends to be the general concept of happiness. Yeah so good while you lay out some of these modern rules for marriage which I thought were really insightful. These are some of the ideas we have when we enter into marriage that things like there's somebody just for me, my soulmate, these sorts of things. What are some of these roles that people think apply to marriage, but are actually not really real. Yet we we do that there is one other person just as we can ever find that right person than marriage itself will be easy and so we think are still you know every Romeo and Juliet every couple of the Bam Bam and so will then when we get into marriage is difficult for us. We begin to think what might we just chose the wrong person that when in reality there is were all bearing centers were simple people marrying simple people and so marriage was never intended to be the relationship that often times of the avenue by which God wants to reveal to your own brokenness and within the concept of committed love.

Transform your heart. So marriage is supposed to be difficult supposed to be hard yet one of the modern rules of relationships that were supposed to run from pain. You don't think love ever includes pain and so we tend to run from it and avoid it. And so midway between week we avoid issues we were scared in the midst of that moment. We make marriage primarily just about then forget that it's ultimately about God and bring glory to him with the ripple effect that relationships have on other people and if marriage is one of the person course we will work on it anyway and so we can protect our own hearts so we don't have that loving we can ignore the close and in the end of marriage that we think the modern rule is not there must be something wrong with the other person yeah yes always the other person. The problem lies over there with me ever know absolute what I am because it looks like it in a it would have a limit of survival of the world and so from the very beginning we are trying to hide our pain to hide her in capabilities always appear.

Scroll. And so for us to take responsibility for a failure of our own, or struggles in our relationship is a very dangerous thing in a world that exploits and manipulates the weakest among yes rates that Christians though have fallen for this fairytale game where marriage is supposed to be about my fulfillment. Where did we ever go wrong on that.

It's one thing for the world to think that way but I think there are a lot of Christians who think that way if you really got to the bottom wrong of of their thinking about marriage will not be fulfilling it to be meeting my needs. I don't know if everybody would phrase it that way. But why do we think that way. Do you think you read the Bible wrong. We read the Bible centrally about think we are the main character it makes perfect. But when we read the Bible. That way, whenever we replace God with ourselves as we read Scripture on a daily basis and literally even if we do our daily devotions.

We are doing daily devotions to ourselves and so it's not it's not shocking to us that all the fun we begin to think marriage is about us that the Bible should marriage me about half and then there is the ripple effect. I think that every area of life where we were just nothing more than idolatry. We idolize ourselves and I think many of the broken marriages that we now experience there is nothing more than a symptom of this greater problem applied. We have replaced God with ourselves right you talk about the importance of humility in marriage and one of the points that you make about the commitments is to happily humble yourselves, and certainly I don't think there is much more of a humbling institution that anybody could be involved in more than marriage. It's a very sanctifying institution.

It's wonderful but it's also very humbling. What are you talking about there though where you advise people to happily humble yourself where marriage truly does begin, and it begins with an awareness that I don't know what it takes to make marriage work that we together really don't know. We just know that we love each other were committed to one another and now we are going to humble ourselves to God. Humble ourselves. Experts recognize her own brokenness recognize the brokenness we have between us and our going try to learn and grow and achieve.

Knowing sale along the way you lavish each other with love and mercy as we walk forward in life. Too often couples enter in having grown up in a home and having seen a marriage model for them in some way. Having watched television in book something every Hollywood. I think people a lot of people assume they know what it takes to make a marriage work should be one of the great benefits of being a Christian. We begin with the conflict of humility, but God is the ultimate designer and he is teaching us how he created this world as a Christian we should begin with humility correct because we don't know what it was all about God show us that as we learn as we grow as we change, then we can continue to move forward with the moment we begin to think that we have figured out how we are in tremendous danger.

Now that's right. What would you say are some of the warning signs of pride in a marriage, all I think the inability to allow your spouse to influence you when suddenly you know you don't even begin to ask your spouse their opinion about things because you arrogantly believe that you already know what the answer is going to be one of you have this tremendous ability to constantly find fault in what they're doing instead of seeing the good. Whenever you have almost an addiction to yourself to all the attention you can all you will can't stand for your spouse to be in the spotlight that you need to be that your opinion ranks above there's probably the issue of contempt is one of the greatest science. When you begin to have a sense of contempt toward your spouse that just the volume of the voice irritates you that that would be a scary place to begin to be from the conflict applied to. I think what's so difficult about pride that I say unhappily is that pride of body destroys, but humility has ability to unite and multiply, and also when one pride begins to erode into our hearts, it will destroy our relationships. That's true. Have you seen a lot of when you've been doing debacle counseling and in dealing with marriages. Have you seen a lot of people show contempt for their spouses. While there is no question you know John Gottman marriage counselors so that contempt is what he called one of the four Horsemen divorce and it's something that you look for in a very easy way.

And so there is no question that it almost every divorce that ends up contempt eventually makes its way in there and often times it is one of the very first sign that there may not even be seen in a very public way. Private contempt that somebody can outwardly be very loving and kind and compassionate but they get home and become very a block very short and really it is no longer the six change communication ideas and love, but instead it is this your below me.

I deserve better and often over really dumb things. I would imagine the small things tend to be blown up to in incredible heights. There's no question about the wedding ceremony would we come to giving up the cry which really comes from up an old, bad place in our history when women were seated material is money or possessions truly giving abroad comes from but I love you still include that in weddings like to remind the couples suddenly the husband that for as long as you see your wife for as long as you see your husband now as a gift coming from a family there giving this person to you, your marriage will thrive. How I like to think yourself. I deserve this. Will I deserve better than you are a tremendous amount of danger, so I'd love I love the set all that up go to a short break will be back with Kevin Thompson stay with us.

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That's 888-247-5499 where there is a banner to click Janet you're listening to Thompson's lead pastor community Bible Church in western Arkansas and author of the book happily ate commitments of couples who laugh, love, and last, and Kevin. We were talking about this happily humbling yourselves advice that you're giving to readers, which is such an important thing you mentioned that was happily embracing the hurts and obviously if you're married for any length of time you understand it is possible and it is normal to hurt one another in the course of life, but I like what you say because you stressed that marriage. This is a really good point when you're single and someone gets on your nerves. You can get away from them. He can say to spend the night and I don't want to go out and you know, go get ice cream or anything with you tonight. I just want to sit home and you can't do that when you're married, you have to be able to face these things. So how how do you advise couples to face that hurts and embrace it in writing the book. I have this idea the concept of how how to go about it. This is the chapter that that touched me the most.

That shocked me the most was the reason I love to write and preach as you just never know where the biblical text, and this was a surprising place for me.

But now that I see it, is it so important to me from the concept of marriage was never meant to totally satisfy us and fulfill God's role in our society we tend to place marriage in that place that this is the one point that's really supposed to give us everything that we want everything we need and we get into it and we fail one another, I'm never going to fully be the man that my wife deserves. She's never to be fully everything that I dreamed of in a wife this marriage itself was never fully be what society should be what we think it should be and so often we become what you can live in denial of what we are dismayed by book, but I think encouragement now is is to embrace it, I'm not saying this the way that you need to excuse bad behavior by no means there is a reality by my wife as it is a travel job. She shall go anywhere in any moment, stay at home, body.

She has convinced me to go anywhere. There are times where I mourn for her thinking she deserves a husband that would just jump on any plane at any moment. So that's not me that I have my own strengths.

That's one aspect that you can have to mourn but you know what getting Kevin to travel all the time is going be a little bit more difficult and even whatever we do travel may not be quite as fun a little bit more anxiously but one we have to mourn, and the funny thing about morning as we live in a culture now were again were running away from pain. One of modern old and when we do that it begins to chip away at our ability to truly love to me. The irony is this, those who mourn, well loved, well, because whatever you can recognize the pain and the sorrow of the broken things are as good as I wanted them to be in aspects gives you a much deeper appreciation for the things that are good for the strengths that are there when you mourn the failures of yourself that you've experienced that grace you some appreciation for how God has made you strong in places or how marriage is a positive thing to me whenever we began to not mourn the failings of ourselves of this fallen world of the institution of marriage will where we fail to mourn those things it actually robs us of yellow fully experience the love and the good there and that's just what realism is and it said at the root because you're never going to marry somebody who wants to do everything you want to do it every moment, and in some respects if God gave us somebody who is like that marriage with happy we never be challenged.

We never grow we wouldn't be as sanctified, is he wants to be mean there is an upside. In that regard as well.

There is no question about the reality is the last thing I marriage debate yeah right yeah the differences are can be strengths, no doubt, and that it is this idea of just confront the truth of the reality of the way things actually are living in denial or despair about them. That's good, Kevin. What about happily avoiding both apathy and aggression. You had mentioned this in the beginning of your book and then you have a chapter devoted to this, what are you talking about their Gothic apathy and aggression are really are two sides of the same coin that I don't like what I'm calling this form of meekness where we have the strength. You'll build preacher illustration of meekness is power under control, resource not directed in the right way. God had given the strengths and abilities, skills, and were supposed to not use those strengths to the benefit and the well-being of our spouse and them that ripples over and their children in the community think like that.

The problem is when sin enters the world we are tempted either to be apathetic about things that we should be passionate about, or to be passionate about things that really don't matter and so we can either be apathetic or aggressive and both of those things can now you it's not us using our strength actually injure our spouse. So you thing about this tense conversation begins to come up one spouse might raise the newspaper often and almost emotionally shut down, not willing to respond to be apathetic in that moment the other one might raise their voice began to yell, shout and scream all are trying to do basically by yelling and shouting and screaming is almost beat down their spouse because they really don't want to reveal their heart what God calls us to with a meek way. A strength is under control strength, now directed to the benefit of our spouse, for we are willing to confront issues were not to be passive about them and yet when I can be overly aggressive to try to scare away our spouse.

Instead, would you be willing to lay our heart out on the table and to attack issues together rather than Each other well and this ties back into Galatians 5 and the fruits of the spirit. Self-control is one of those fruits and we need to remember that that's what were called to well absolutely no doubt yeah now what about the one I'm I'm skipping around a little here because I know when I can have time to talk about all eight people can read it in your book, but you also talk about happily refusing power struggles and probably everyone who is married is listening can relate to that is that at times there will be power struggles how you refuse that because you may feel very strongly and you don't want to stop the fight because it's a fight worth having in your spouse may feel the same, but what you do to resolve that I view this almost like you go back to great clients and plate tectonics.

Remember you have these continents right pushing against each other that over time the tension was building all that, until finally there was quite this great explosion. A lot of marriages are, they will quietly be pushing against each other until all of a sudden, there is this great big explosion and I think what Jesus offers to us now is this reality that my wife and I are these two landmasses and no matter how much were in love and how much we appreciate one another. We can never be moving quickly in the exact same direction. There will be this tension were pushing against each other for what we want, what we think is best. All those things.

And now what we need is we need something to smooth out the tension to release attention to some extent, and to me that's what mercy whenever we receive mercy from God. And we begin to give it to our spouse. It causes us to no longer try to hold onto power, but instead to have his willingness to mutually submit to one another. 20 great imitations of the kingdom, the world's if you can get the power you can be happy. Jesus says if you will submit.

You can find happiness and to me the only thing that can make that happen is mercy. So where mercy is not present, a husband and wife are fighting to control one another, fighting for the control of the relationship.

But when mercy is present, they both willfully submit to one another and in so doing, both end up being elevated, that's a really good points when you talk about happily enduring whatever may come. I think that's a good way of saying it because over the long haul you're going to go through so many things in your marriage and you know somebody said once I can't remember who said this, but somebody said enough marriage were so easy, why do you think you had to take the vows you know there for a reason, because it's not always good to be easy. How you walk through marriage, though. Whatever may come because we have so many doubts in our culture now well if you not fulfilled here. If he's not doing it for you there. The woman got fat, you know, she's not fulfilling your needs. Whatever you can walk away and find someone who does meet your needs. There's so much cultural allowance for that kind of thinking how you get people into a mindset of what ever comes I'm staying and I'm going to be true and I'm going to love my spouse right after we said about a wedding ceremony that I do.

I so often pray at that moment, and often times my prayer is God. These are awfully big and bold promises spoken into an unknown dark future.

Make them be prophetic. It really is this concept that we don't know what the future hold for whatever comes our way. God knows it. He sees it.

At minimum, he allows it, and now side-by-side were to walk through this together and endure the other not just endure it as an go through it but were actually going to grow and learn about him about ourselves and about one another and it really is this what I call a dogged determinism that we trust God we trust the sovereignty whatever comes our way. God has allowed that to now change and transform our hearts.

If you have the perspective you will end up walking through life hand-in-hand fighting together against issues standing together against challenges.

If you don't have that perspective, tough problem comes instead of attacking the problem together. You will begin to attack each other very important just to make this commitment and literally you can go on vacation you have a dinner night out you can just pray God we don't know what the future holds.

From this day forward, we are united we are together and we will do whatever it takes together to get through whatever issue might come. That's really good what you say to the listening who says all of this is great but what if my spouse isn't on board if it's just me I'm doing all the giving I'm doing all the sacrificing I'm the only meek one. How do I keep it up. If my spouse is not willing to do the same. And how do I keep from resenting him or her. That's a great question. I have tremendous empathy and I know a lot of people written about that situation. My encouragement is if you do not feel like your spouse is all that you go to them. You tell them why you fell in love. You tell them that you want you want more of the good parts that y'all have and that you want to go together to good Christian counselor begin to work on this marriage figured out and if they won't go with you. You go by yourself. You begin to ask those questions of how can I set good boundaries. How can I love well how can I follow Jesus and at the same time not be walked on not excuse bad behavior or anything like that to me at such a big issue and we are so emotionally involved and invested. We truly need a professional to walk alongside of us whenever we are not both very good.

While the name of the book is happily commitments of couples who left London last by Kevin Thompson something to have you here Kevin, thank you very very much for being with us about our I got my Seo will be back on Janet Mefford today. After this this archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by liberty House share Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health for more information liberty Mefford and here's your host Joe today. I love the words from Colossians chapter 3. Therefore, if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth what the Lord is stressing their and his word is so important for all of us to consider today how much do we seek the things that are above or set our minds on the things that are above is opposed to thinking and talking constantly about merely the things of this world working to discuss it today with the Rev. Maurice Roberts. He is an author, international conference speaker and emeritus minister in the free Church of Scotland continuing and were going to get some of his thoughts from his booklet on the topic so helpful.

It's entitled how do I develop heavenly mindedness and spiritual conversation, Rev. Roberts, thank you so much for joining us and I am so glad to see you address some of these things.

This is very reminiscent of a lot of the old Puritan literature, which I love so much. Having our mind set on Christ and the things that are to calm. It's wonderful holding about important subjects to develop absolutely. Well, let's talk a little bit about some of these definitions because heavenly mindedness. I suppose could be interpreted in a number of ways, but how are you using that term. What does it mean would you say to be heavenly minded made three points from the little booklet so civil I audio it is to understand that God exists and that his sovereign and all that happens in this world.

I suppose going the second boilermakers we should be grateful for the work of the Lord Jesus Christ to save it or send us on the third point America's we should believe that God's dealings with others in this life will always consistent with the teaching of the Bible right absolutely essential.

So let's take on the first point when you talk about needing a conscious understanding of God's existence and sovereignty. We are always conscious and people will say Christians will say I know God is sovereign. I know that God exists.

But what is the disconnect that Christians sometimes have between knowing that and then being heavenly minded about those truths don't always apply to the text of Scripture which shows you sure you're soon will find you out.

We should watch behavior all conversation and always realize that what we're doing will say is always all the time on the gods surveillance found on the design right so being aware of the Lord's presence more than we sometimes are very important. We should, yes, that's a really good point, while the other thing that you mention is this only begins after a person has been regenerated it, which seems obvious but I guess for a lot of people it would be difficult to cultivate a heavenly mindedness. If you are just a Christian in name only, and not truly born again well. What happens with the new is so is made alive to God speaking to his truth in the gospel hundred million before we are born again we don't really take the things of God, that as soon as you brought up to them soon available in a good mood and receive with conviction and 1/2 of hearts what the Bible teaches is what God commands us to know to believe them to practice that's so true now for the other spiritual conversation.

This is the other phrase that you talk about in the book what is spiritual conversation. How would you explain that to a Christian what you're talking about spiritual conversation is disciplining. Also when weight in conversation with somebody else to speak about the things of God is distinct from the things of the world. No cost at all times while this rumor have to speak about common everyday things, but concern is that we don't always speak about everyday things that we discipline. Also when it's appropriate to write a subject or to heavenly spiritual from the word of God, the Bible right now. Why is that so essential. I mean, obviously Christian should want to talk about spiritual things and be interested in discussing the Lord in the things of the Lord.

What is the reason though, that the Christian should really be mindful of having spiritual conversations but I would give to people because we grow in grace and we become all spiritual and moral heavenly minded when it is all practice to cultivate the habit of speaking one with another concerning spiritual things so would benefit also does listen to the second largest sometimes people's lives are totally changed through hearings conversation that I quote the book of the case of John Bunyan who overheard some older deuce is the daughter of the house in England and they were talking about that own experience of finding Christ the Savior and as he overheard him speaking about the sins of forgiveness through Christ. John Bunyan was shocked to sit in his half and that led to his conversion, he wrote so what about 60 books and 60 is usually shows that conversation, then, is the tremendous good and that's what we can do we become about all spiritual conversation. Yes, that's so important to understand the impact that that would have on somebody but also in ourselves because I found whenever I speak about the Lord with other Christians that always benefits me that I always have another Christian in imparting some wisdom to me that I didn't previously have. So we benefit and we also give benefits to others. When we engage in spiritual conversation how I couldn't agree more about the benefit of both the speaker yes yes I like when you say our duty as believers is to become the most spiritual people we can be. I love that you said that because there is a trend at least here in the United States of Christians trying to downplay what we don't want to be too otherworldly. We don't want to be still engaged in heavenly mindedness that were no good to the earth and those sorts of thoughts where you think we go wrong when we begin to talk that way because I do believe that you're right that we are to be more spiritual that we are to be stronger Christians and more mature Christians than we are in our present state well. So heavenly minded that you know the good.

Sounds very well put quotation to cover the popular words but is absolutely no teaching of the Bible. The Bible encourages people to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. And when we look at the life of Christ in the four Gospels. We notice never ever trivial or unimportant. Always speaking of the mountain which is edifying to the here is beneficial to sometimes with about a challenging way is when you speak to the policies and Sadducees described so dear to his group got turned off of the Lord Jesus Christ, and out of the teaching of Scripture which teaches us we should not be careless about us page but seek to edify one another by alive by all speech yes right in your ministry. How have you seen heavenly mindedness being received by those youth minister to over the years. Do you see heavenly mindedness, growing more rare or increasing. How do you see things from a ministerial perspective. Good question is how to give an amended some because auto calls Christians and Christians. Some Christians so we have overhead on the button on the call to the world. All those who really want to become more spiritual which is all due to the strain of Christianity in the modern world, which seems to be content with the slightest amount of 12 good is a very big mistake if we ought to go by the Bible as distinct from the patent. Some churches today, and there's no doubt about it. We must seek to glorify God by following the pattern of his work that is grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ right to. In other words, are we loving the world too much and how do we evaluate whether or not we love the world too much.

Well, I was so effective is this, we must realize life is short, we will have a long soon we will be in attendance to Jesus Christ our Lord.

Those who are most obedient to the word of God will be highest in his kingdom and glory of those Christians who are most welcome minded and callous about the way to keep God's word, they will be among the lowest of those undertone. Both will be in heaven." Crisis purchased by blood on the cross ties with us, but we would always show so there's little wish to be as high as what a wonderful point were going to go to a very quick Frank will be back with the Rev. Maurice Roberts develop heavenly mindedness and spiritual conversation talking over when we come back Jennifer today. The ministry of pre-born is there for moms in crisis who are choosing between life and death for their pre-born babies meet Sophie at 22 weeks pregnant. Sophie was pressured by her mother and boyfriend to terminate her pregnancy. After meeting with the pre-born counselor. She found the love and support she needed and I sign looking at pictures over and over and over again when I decided I was. Sophie chose life and now she's awaiting the birth of her baby girl every day. Pre-born is on the front lines fighting Planned Parenthood to help young moms just like Sophie to choose life for a gift of $140 today you can help to rescue five babies lives and now through a matching gift. Your gift will be doubled rescuing 10 babies lives to donate, call 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to open enrollment is here and choosing a healthcare program is an important decision for you and your family as a member of liberty held shares your part of a community that comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up now with membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments program start as low as $349 per month and there's no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses and in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens. You can find out that's liberty liberty I love this topic. How do I develop heavenly mindedness and conversation.

It's a booklet from the Rev. Maurice Roberts, who is joining us on today's program and I'm so glad that he is doing so. He's an author, international conference speaker in emeritus minister in the Free Church of Scotland continuing and I so appreciate Rev. Robert Cyr bringing these things to the forefront you are making the point before we went to the break about Christians who are very diligent in their obedience will have a higher place and glory thing. Christians who are more neglectful of their obedience.

We will all be in heaven but that's it's interesting because when you say that I very rarely hear Christians talking about that, and I'm wondering if that's part of the problem well well will be about.

So we need to close churches in the seven on the mount Matthew chapter 5 on the cross. He says things milled about come to destroy the mole. All the prophets I criminal to destroy but to fulfill this basis of the law of God will last as long as the well blessed was altered to those who teach others to break think about muscle to be careless will be the least in the kingdom of God and those who keep us think about most. They will get the highest in the kingdom of God is Matthew five shows no doubt that the bold and sacred Jesus Christ. Exactly.

I think part of the problem in our churches today in a lot of circles. Is this problem of antinomianism where irrespective of Romans chapter 6 there are Christians who believe.

Well, I'm saved by grace. So it really doesn't matter what I do after I'm saved I'm forgiven, Christ died for my sins and put them away and I know that my place is secure in heaven. How would you advise a Christian like that to think about passages like Matthew chapter 5, and what the Lord really did have to say about the importance of obedience. Well, Mr. don't understand between two no minutes on the one who falls full gospel, which is certainly quite possible for people to have the gospel teaches real saved by faith alone in Christ alone. So in a sense just to follow suit filed on good works so good works and no sense to enter into the experience of being converted that's been strongly emphasized by a company in Beijing was the commissioners who called her to go to the front of my confession of faith.

We must think we ought to become true Christians, but is not being emphasized in our generation is when we all converted but we also we are justified by faith in Christ. The rule of due to the 10 Commandments. That is something which is been lost sight of the medication and when were talking about heavenly mindedness. How do you develop a broader place for the Lord in your thoughts obviously you must spend time in the word of God, meditating, memorizing, studying, going deeper into the word of God. But what would be some of your recommendations to a young Christian, perhaps on how to cultivate heavenly mindedness will think about mom so I would undoubtedly is very important that we should study those 10, apply them in detail to our own lives. If I may just take an example to which I think will be a way out on field question is is this to the commandment shalt not take the name of the bold golden now many Christians supposed to been stoves such as G golf gully cry. Heavens above all of those expressions might seem innocent enough to the average reader, but that old blasphemy Jesus almost certainly show it produces dollars short. God also showed for God like you showed for Christ. So if the Christian allows himself to use these words without realizing it. He is actually blaspheming the God who saved his soul. So this very important to start of the 10 Commandments, just one further point about the great have done some members work studying next planning to also 10 Commandments. I do recommend the shorter catechism of the Westminster larger catechism, both of these books are tremendous good on the whole subject of the place of the model very very true and is very important. I think that every Christian really doubles down studying the 10 Commandments and uses all those resources to further our understanding as I think that's part of the problem. We don't want to do a lot of self-examination. At least I dealt all the time and I know I need to. As a Christian because when we do self examine according to God's word. We will find ourselves convicted. But isn't that the purpose of the word of God to convict us of our sin yes to comfort us and encourage us but also to convict us where we are sinning so that we may repent that Christian we must look at it from two points of view of all we know because we are justified through Christ and his blood that we will not be condemned for options that were most of the same program on my mind.

Also, we wish to glorify the God to save doesn't show our gratitude to him. We must do everything we can to build holder because the more holy, we all will recorded by God on the greater will be audible true and you mentioned five faculties of the soul that have to be taken into account for serious about heavenly mindedness, you mention the mind and the will emotions the memory and the conscience that's interesting the memory. How would you, for example, deal with the memory when you're dealing with heavenly mindedness that given to us by God so that we may store up all my Monday. The word of God. Make sure we know it in the more we know the word of God, the more able we all sociable to fight against temptation and secondly to guide all cells in the way to go ahead and close up of an illustration of the first of those points is a blessed Lord Jesus Christ when he was tempted how to dance with the temptations of the devil. He kept on saying it is written and was quoting verbatim the words of God against the devil to silence the devil and so the people protected him so soon.

Yes. And of course he knew his word good enough well enough that when the devil was quoting scripture out of context.

Lord could correct them with Scripture. So yeah good point to note interpretation of the text. You absolutely to master the word of God when it comes to spiritual conversation the other party your book. I think this is really great.

You offer some suggestions on helping us to develop spiritual conversation.

One of those suggestions involves urging people on the Lord staying those around us to only talk about biblical subjects, and I thought, that sounds wonderful. I think that's a great suggestion. How would you implement that how would you go about doing that. We have to be. Could we come to people but I would say the thing to do is in conversation with somebody take the initiative to raise the subject which is relative to the lowest. I'm assuming we're talking now about speaking to somebody who is professing Christian how we can bring the subject like this. Is this morning and my private devotions I came across a wonderful text of Scripture which says we shall not be tempted above that which was able to babble, God will sustain the temptation was not a comforting thought. They will respond to that and then you can out of it more. Teach them in that way to follow a line which is both biblical and also practical and for the good of all to train people by example I think is the best answer. And doesn't this also developed in Christians in appetite for more that the more you read the Bible, the more Bible you want the more you pray, the more you want to pray, the more that you speak of the things of God with other Christians. The more you want to do so just to good owners. Some of us are doing because memory is not so shopping at a young so is also good for the person to have his memory refreshed to know things we do so is good for them to that's great to see the benefits would be to the church Rev. Roberts if we all as a church, developed more heavenly mindedness and spiritual conversation. How might that improve our fellowship with one another. Well, it would serve one another to be diligent in our private devotions. It was similar to one another to be careful to bring about, and discipline them, teaching them he would also be very important to one another up to read the best books because reading a good book is clearly important proctored and growing in grace and knowledge. So all these factors increase in capital obedience to the 10 Commandments.

All of these would be the fruits of discussing the truth while with another in a conversational way. Well, it's wonderful. This is a great book that some Reformation heritage books. How do I develop heavenly mindedness and spiritual conversation from the Rev. Maurice Roberts and it was just an honor to have you here Rev. Roberts. I loved reading your book. It was wonderful to have you on the program. Thank you so much. Thank you, my great height. God bless you. Thank you again, thanks for joining us enchantment for today. Always a privilege to have you along to see you next time. God bless you to

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