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Abigail Shrier (Transgender) Paul Brownback (Selfishness)

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The Truth Network Radio
November 23, 2021 4:30 am

Abigail Shrier (Transgender) Paul Brownback (Selfishness)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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November 23, 2021 4:30 am

Why are groups of girls across America suddenly coming out as "transgender?" I'll discuss it with Abigail Shrier, contributor at The Wall Street Journal, who outlines how Internet propaganda and peer pressure are setting up young women for a dangerous future in her book. "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters." Plus: How has a focus on "unconditional love and acceptance" undermined our culture at its deepest roots? Dr. Paul Brownback discusses his book, "Licensing Selfishness: The Secular and Evangelical Ideology Destroying America." That and more on Tuesday's MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever.

Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to, our confidence is in Christ alone, I saw you know adolescent daughter suddenly announced transgender is happening in an increasing number of families, which itself is a red flag and it has led to the coining of the phrase sudden onset gender dysphoria. In other words, it's entirely likely that your daughter came to her decision not because she suffers from a mental condition but because she's been deeply affected by Pro transgender social influences like peers and Internet gurus. What is going on and what can be done to save our daughters from this really disturbing trend were to talk about it today with Abigail Schreier.

She is a writer for the Wall Street Journal and author of the great book, irreversible damage. The transgender craze seducing our daughters Abigail so great to have you here. Thank you so much for being with us, you bet you first entered this world of transgender politics. I know several years back because of the gender pronoun issue and the laws that came about in California and New York. What those laws alarm you at the time.

What caught your attention back then that relates to what you're writing about in this book. I'm a lawyer and that there is straightforwardly unconstitutional. In America, the government can't make you say anything you can even make you salute the flag and are our jurisprudence is really really clear on that, under the First Amendment. The government can compel speech and the government has tried to combat speed under laws in New York and in California. My state where they actually find criminal penalties for failing to use the correct gender pronoun. So I wrote about that.

It's fairly straightforward and a reader wrote to me and she said her daughter had been caught up in this and could I please take it on. She had written that many journalists and no one was interested exactly what nobody wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole. And even if you have stories. As you know well even if you have stories of people who have reversed their sex change operations now denounce everything they went through with gender dysphoria. They don't even get their stories told half the time there's a big blackout factor when he reached out to me and I'm not an opinion Journal.

I tried to find an investigative journalist who would take the top and I was unable to do so after three months I got back in touch with her and I thought all right.

Let me when he reached out all the parents are telling me about her going through this and many other stories and I did and what I found it was, you know, in the base a lot of research I did on the 200 interviews and what I found was this is a peer contagion meaning just like anorexia and bulimia and cutting it spends with it it it spreads within friend groups growth convince themselves growth in genuine distress. Convince himself that this is the cause and they spread it to their friends. Let's talk a little bit about this because one of the things you mention is that the experience of girlhood is different in this generation may be that it was for many of us in our own childhoods. What is different about this generation that would cause that sort of peer contagion, short number of things wanting to know if that girl today and a lot less time in person with each other and a lot more time online influences that matter most in their lives are not other girl in person. In fact, you don't get nearly as much comfort from their friends or work genuine deep friendship with a get his direction and competition online have access to all these gurus that they follow and who influence them and then they are constantly comparing and competing allele holding up their bodies against their friends. You doctored images online so they feel a lot of distress there. They feel that they are failing as a girl they are failing us went because they're comparing themselves to an ideal.

They cannot measure up to and it's causing them a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression. This is interesting because all of us can say we we went to the same sorts of things when we were adolescents I don't measure up to Brooke Shields on the cover of Vogue or whatever it is, but we didn't resolve it by trying to change our sex me what what is the deadly combination. Here wanting to know if it's not actually the girl in your images have been doctored online to you and you hate being grown in your own class and they look perfect because all of their issues at all of the images have been tuned. Even the girls in your feel like that you can't reach them and the competition never end because you hold the pictures in your pocket and they torment you all day long and not just the pictures the comments people tearing apart their bodies online you read about people tearing apart your body online you read about that really produces in girls were always prone to compare themselves and produces a great amount of distress and anxiety, and now in today's day and age there's a solution and that solution if you don't you might not be a girl at all. Maybe you're imperfectly feminine because you're really supposed to be a boy 2° so so talk a little bit about how it works. If you have friends who are really moving you in that direction are they getting it from the Internet gurus first. Are they getting it from the pro-LGBT clubs at school what is in other words, connect the dots on how this gets to these girls, all of the about all that think that transgender influences are online. They are everywhere.

You don't even have to go hunting for them. They will many teenage sites will queue them up and they are highly addictive, highly watchable on their very charismatic teenagers and they promise you that the best thing that ever happened to them with course of testosterone on the are also getting these growth economy gender indoctrination ideology indoctrination in the school starting in kindergarten and I explored my own school system here in California where it is extremely radical, extremely pervasive and it's starting kindergarten so these girls are getting confused in schools and the educators are really happy to embrace and celebrate them as a new gender okay and even if they express distress are taking to a therapist for any reason. Therapists are now affirming and celebrating these identities, to wherever these girls lock. They are told that if they just come out of the boy.

They will get popularity they will get celebration and they will get shield from all the criticism and that and and derision that attaches to being a white girl today. It's crazy California.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm doing this from memory. But isn't it the case now in California. If you do go to any kind of therapist that therapist you not allowed to tell somebody you may not be the other gender. Or you may not be gay or something along those lines.

Exactly right and 18. We've adopted conversion therapy laws which purport to eliminate no gait conversion therapy, but what they actually do is eliminate that life all gender identity therapy and the problem with that. What that was always the way we treated gender dysphoria gender dysphoria with a psychological distress in your biological fact it began in early childhood and overwhelmingly afflicted boys and the way we were treated with therapist would examine the whole child and trying to figure out what was going on. Where did you get this idea that if he was a girl he feel better. Okay, now you're not believing allowed to inquire and all of a sudden the predominant demographic in America out of nowhere. If teenage girls with sudden gender dysphoria and they claim they have gender dysphoria, even though they have no childhood history of it and on the basis of their self-diagnosis there getting hormones and surgery.

Whatever happened to just being a tomboy because statistically, most of these girls or boys who have any kind of gender conflict outgrow it anyway right well were not allowing that anymore. There's no such thing as a tomboy in school today.

In fact, they are presented with a litany of gender options tomboy without one of them. Gender nonconforming, as said they made decide that they are pansexual or are you know they have a whole list of options.

They can choose from or getting of non-binary but tomboy is not among yeah tomboy is just not an option anymore, you girls are actually falling for this. This peer contagion pressure to switch genders extensively, we don't know exactly. And the reason we don't know is that clinics don't even require a diet.

A formal diagnosis in order to get hormones and surgeries I can tell you a couple things in 20 between 2016 and 2017, the number of gender dysphoria gender surgeries on biological females quadruple. I can also tell you that again a decade ago, we had one gender clinic in the United States today. We have well over 50 and and and I can tell you that Planned Parenthood now gives out testosterone across the country first visit home without even a therapist. Note no therapy. Unbelievable. And you know what you're talking about in this book is what is so alarming we don't yet know the long-term effects on these girls true for boys as well, but in particular girls when you are engaging in things like hormone treatments or body altering surgeries. I it's just terrifying to think what may be coming down the line will take a short pause will come back with Abigail Schreier. Her book is called irreversible damage say with us on Jennifer today for those of us who live in America. It may be hard to believe but there are people in the country of Lebanon with never heard about Jesus. That's exactly why Hartford Lebanon is there working in the nation that home to more than 2 million Syrian refugee families who have arrived there to escape civil war and terrorism but every day.

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Thank you and God bless you for your generosity. You're listening to Joe Wood River today know you're welcome back great to have you with us and great to have with us, Abigail Schreier. She is a writer for the Wall Street Journal and author of a really important book, irreversible damage.

The transgender craze seducing our daughters and focusing on this issue of peer contagion that you have all of these girls suddenly saying their transgender when in fact historically the diagnoses of gender dysphoria have been very rare or haven't they ever get what is the discrepancy in the numbers we were talking about .01% to 1/100 of 1%, which meant probably nobody you knew growing up with transgender today 2% of high school students now identify as transgender here document well over a million kids, and you're talking about and and they are overwhelmingly female. We've never seen this before. That's crazy on every side there getting it. They're not just getting the Internet stars, you know, maybe it's RuPaul.

Maybe it's Jaz Jennings or somebody like that you're getting the peer group influencer getting the curriculum influence may be, in schools or getting politicians going along with it. But what happens to these girls once they declare I'm transgender do the most of them go through with hormone treatments do most of them seek any sort of body altering surgeries and what are some of the ramifications of these declarations when I didn't want the parent still had so I interviewed one woman in my pot goes by Catherine Cave and her daughter and seventh grade heard a school assembly in which a transgender student addressed the student and after hearing that she decided oh I'm uncomfortable in my body. I've never felt perfectly female that that's what I am to us that he came home and announced to her mom. Her mom tried to take it seriously, but not not necessarily literally, but the girl was encouraged to make an announcement to her class so her therapist. The girls in therapy and she was encouraged to make an announcement or teacher could change her name and pronouns within the school keeping it a secret from her parents. This is standard in many school systems across the country to keep it a secret from the parent and the therapist was pushing the mother to start the can on hormone sheet. She and told the mother. This is the only way to keep your daughter from suicide and that is a common line. Parents will get what that's not true. So right because we continue to see even people of gone through the whole shebang where you go through the surgery, they are still depressed there still committing suicide. In many instances, Dr. Paul McHugh from Johns Hopkins who put an end to the sex change operations out there and is been criticized for it. He pointed that out. That's why he wanted those operations to stop because they didn't actually solve the problem right so what is true that there is a high rate of depression and suicidality among trend identified you and trend identified people. What is not never been proved is for this population. Number one, whether gender dysphoria is the cause, suicidality, and to what is never been proven is whether transition medical or social transition will will eliminate that so suicidality obviously there's a lot we don't know, and in fact we have some indication that it isn't necessarily the trend the gender dysphoria that's causing the depression. It may be the other way around.

That depression is the real problem and anxiety is a real problem, not the gender dysphoria. Well, that would make sense because if you're talking about young girls were increasingly isolated and depressed in their encountering all of these on, you know, unattainable images of beautiful girls online that they feel they can ever be, you know that there's gotta be a factor of depression that would lead them to make such a leap in the first place. I mean real story here. Just one more manifestation of a mental health crisis that our team girl therein happened today to be calling it gender dysphoria because that's what they see in the culture. And that's the explanation they give how bad they feel inside. But we know that rates of suicide are spiking like we've never before seen in teenage girls, even in between and and this is also true for self harm, you know, for cutting for all kinds of you know, self-directed bad behaviors. We know that they are in a lot of distress there calling it gender dysphoria, but really what they're in the felt a lot of pain that's a great point to something else. You mention which I think is really disturbing is the messages that these girls are getting for example, you know, trying out these constricting binders student to, you know, kind of figure out your new trans life. I mean stuff like that. What kind of effect does it have on these young girls very bad and solidify a young girl in her trans identity. I mean even if that identity is ultimately not correct. I spoke to when a woman just last week who called me.

She buried her daughter was wearing a binder and this is what happened. The mother told me the girl was 16 and she felt like she thought that her daughter playing a binder now and and going by this new name and pronouns, but she didn't feel like and I said to her that you take it away and she said to me, I couldn't. I don't want to get on her bad side and I said to her, would you give her cigarettes because binders deform breast tissue. They can crack read, they can cause shortness of breath. They are really bad for these girls. But because this whole issue is cloaked in civil rights. A lot of parents have trouble closing at what it doesn't help when you see stories on the news of parents who are joyfully embracing their new daughters male identity. I mean, then those parents have extra pressure don't they from the media to go along with it exactly right parent are very good people. They are literally afraid to lose their jobs there afraid if they are caught proposing this with their own daughters when they don't think it's right for them there, afraid of being shamed on social media being fired from the job, losing all their friends losing their reputations and their community.

At that big incarnate. They get.

I mean, this is what happens when a parent stopped and said, hold on, honey. You've never had gender dysphoria. At this doesn't seem right and use your mental health is not improving. By this, grateful and doing all of the interviews that you did, what was the big take away for you among your many from the parents from the parents perspective that they secretly I don't want to go along with this.

Give me some tips on how to to handle this is that basically what you found yet number one you have to get your social media. Whatever you can do and it's easier if they're younger, but if you can keep them off social media thing to do. We note the media because of a giant spike in anxiety, depression and self-harm just not count with the rest on number two opposed gender ideology in the school. Unfortunately, parents have accepted schools alignment, which is that this is the only way to prevent bullying of transgender students that simply untrue. A school can opposed bullying of all students, for any reason without indoctrinating an entire student body and gender ideology and the third thing I would just say is parents need to just remember that there the parents for a reason and their daughters may have Be upset with that but they need to stand up for what they think is right for their daughter. If the daughter seems to be suffering and meant not having mental health problems and is not going down that path needed. They need to oppose it. That's great. And given that you you know your expertise in the law, as well as what you're writing about in the book, don't you see or do you see down the line. Lawsuits are common.

I mean really, when you have all of this stuff there.

There little guinea pigs in a way let's get hormones.

Let's do surgeries. Let's see how it all turns out. But in many cases isn't it possible that these girls will turn on the parents in coming years and say and say to them.

You should've stopped me.

Mom exactly right.

And you know what I hope I helped a lot. The medical unfortunately medical professional organizations have almost all adopted affirmative care. They have really dropped their obligations that behave like doctors and scientists and instead become cheerleaders and and frankly you know II certainly do hope a lot of the cheerleaders are one-day held accountable. Do you find when you're looking, you know, doing all of your research on this book in particular do you find there a lot of lies that are put forward in order to advance this agenda. In other words, are there things that you would point out to people. If you're hearing this. That's not actually true about this whole transgender movement and it's something you need to communicate to your kids are so many lies about their needed at there are so many. One is the risks of testosterone. We have never put a population of girl on 10 to 45 times the normal dose of testosterone permanently for decades. We've never seen so they don't know. We know that it elevates all kind of cardiac risks in infertility. But the truth is, the long-term risks we don't know. There are tons of risk for puberty blockers and the long-term risk we don't know. They lie about the fact that you often hear. Oh, this is a neutral intervention well there is already indication that not only do we know that if they go from puberty blockers to testosterone. They will be infertile, but they may have permanent sexual dysfunction as well. There's a lot we don't know and and and one of the biggest lies is just doctors and pretending we know more than we do. What you make of the fact that so many politicians are just going along with this entire movement with barely any pushback. I mean, were talking about potential for long-term harmful effects on these girls. There should be.

Shouldn't there more politicians and more strain ON intelligent people figuring this out and saying hey wait a minute, what, why are there more voices standing up against all this right. I mean the act. It had been very full in claiming that they are right you know their rights as adults trump the right be the ability to look into a mental health issue facing teenage girl you can extent that many LGBT Q rights.

If you want throughout the society, but that doesn't mean we can examine a mental health issue facing teenage girls with objectivity and and you know, integrity, and unfortunately we have failed to do that. That's two bets and in movements that in fact are very political in nature. They they've also I know put pressure on groups like the APA and trying to take you know transgender is him in in various word forms out of the diagnostic manual things like that in order to make it seem normal.

It seems that's a big part of the problem. Gender surgery clinic surgical clinics that perform gender operations now are for do it at gender affirming surgeries and backwards and make them sound like yoga instructor they are taking themselves out of the realm of science and into the realm of affirmation affirmation was never a certain job, a surgeon, but failed to heal and cure it's really about time they got back to that. I totally agree with you, and I think you're right long-term.

If we can get some lawsuits filed and you don't want any filed for the sake of the girls.

You just don't want to happen in the first place. But I think it's so important for people to know what's been going on, just a fantastic book. It's called irreversible damage by our guest. Abigail Schreier Abigail. Thank you for writing this.

It was so great to have you. Thank you again, thank you all right you take care God bless will be back on Jennifer today. This archived broadcast of Janet met today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever. Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to Job River to the fears, your host Joe years ago I remember having a disagreement with a coworker over of all things and advertisements of the advertisement was for L'Oreal with that famous tagline because I'm ersatz and my coworker thought that was a great line and I argued that it was selfish and egocentric to talk that way even if it was just a motto to sell hair coloring, but I guess I lost in the long run because were now living in an unabashedly self-absorbed culture, for whom that tagline actually was perfect as my next guest argues though a culture that gives people a license to be selfish is actually destroying our nation from where did this selfishness arise.

How has it affected evangelicalism and what is the remedy for turning this selfish culture around working to tackle it all today with former pastor and college president Dr. Paul Brownback. He is the author of the book will be discussing called licensing selfishness. The secular and evangelical ideology destroying America. Dr. Brumback great to have you with us. How are you well. It's great to have you here. You say that this ideology of selfishness has become the predominant element of contemporary American culture. Why do you think that is what's gone wrong in our culture that we have so much selfishness all around us well hard for probably know to believe, but becomes an angel of light.

So we might expect him to use what sounds to be really really good to destroy us and in doing that then the concept that I write about is one that our secular culture and evangelical culture have come to embrace. In fact, it is the hallmark of both our secular society and contemporary evangelical Saudi and out of the concept of unconditional love and acceptance to become the theme of countless sermons and books and what have you and people embrace the gospel truth and I couldn't stand the dotted source of the selfishness that permeating both secular society and our evangelical churches today so I think you're spot on about that will let's tackle the secular realm. First, when you're talking about this problem of unconditional love and acceptance and you kinda combine it with the self-absorption that were all kind of swimming in all the time.

This goes back, obviously to the 1960s. We have a lot of this hippie does love stuff going on in the 1960s and there's been a long trail to getting here but what would you highlight has been some of the low points that got secular culture to the point where unconditional love and acceptance is is kind of the bellwether idea that everybody's pointing to all the time, suggested the generation known as the log generation factors were talking about agape love that was just the opposite generation hallmark. It had to predominate clichés for further pointed if it feels good do it and that that is a tremendously powerful concept, because in essence what it's doing is saying that reason will not be our guide to life, you will no longer be looking rationally, but will be living subjectively based on our feeling and that impacts everything on the head. The other clichés that the closeout of God and nodded. You have a right to do your own thing and what what's so interesting is how boats to come back.

If feelings it is the basis for our perfection on reality. I can only feel my feelings right and therefore on that basis on the only real person. Everybody else is nearly an object on the monitor of my mind and because of that I don't need to think of myself I can I not only can, but I'm obligated to live totally selfishly because I'm the only real person yes yeah and then it kind of morphed over the years the subjectivism of it feels good do it and do your own thing that kinda self absorbed mentality and now you have people saying it's my truth. They've moved this whole subjectivity over into the realm of object objective truth that we ought all recognizes human beings who can see and hear presumably and there saying I have my truth you have your truth. I mean it. Why has it gone to that level.

Do you think was it just on checked along the way and people bought into these stair steps of bad ideas bringing us to where we are now well what happened to Ruben only lived about five years and about is obviously you can live according to the concept of the feel good, do it right you do your own thing. Well without it going to fall apart and not to actually happen out of Haight-Ashbury admitted 57 in which documents are canonical thought that it was total generation of society. We thought up in the in the Seattle under their little community that had up there and that fell apart in days. It just doesn't work well why would why would rational, intelligent people bought into something like that answer is the dominant psychologist in in the recent half century in American history as a man by the name of Carl Rogers's recognition with Sigmund Freud but people who are familiar with psychology money of them will tell you the most influential person in our society the way now but but extremely influential and good.

What he did is take that 50 philosophy that is dippy ideology and put it into psychological language and not only the be called to psychologist because he put in the psychological language. He claimed that if we lived on that basis. They were actually to success in Arkansas. He believed the men and the core of what he taught with unconditional love and unconditional acceptance. Well, yeah. It's amazing that anybody would really believes that if you do everything in your own self-interest that that wouldn't have a rippling effect on the rest of society. We can't live for ourselves. No society can function if everybody first and foremost is worried about himself. How the world would we have all the things that we need in life. Well, to understand why people good binder that deft understanding of Carl Rogers. She began with the concept of slope what he called the self-actualizing tendency you believe it, just like the squirrel computer have the internal drive to lead them to fulfillment so human beings have the same thing.

The problem with your macabre habit block each human need to experience acceptance by significant others and so if that acceptance is granted, conditionally considered being guided by the self-actualizing pen with internal GPS you postulated.

We all have were guided by the conditions of acceptance, all of the way mom and dad will be to live so I can be accepted by them.

From his perspective that leads to rule but if we are accepted unconditionally and we can accept ourselves unconditionally. We can feel good about itself, regardless of how we live and as a result of that of that freezer to be guided by our self-actualizing tendency that will carry us to becoming in his terms fully functioning people are successful so his whole bill is that unconditional accept is the key to a fulfilling life is a key to him optimizing our life and as a result of theory unconditional acceptance has become the of the soul of morality. So, moral principle of our society to accept is always good not to accept is always bad and we see this playing out in everything from abortion to the transgender movement and beyond your rights while working to take a short break will come back discussing the licensing selfishness. Dr. Paul Brownback my Gaston will be right back on Janet my effort today. Every day babies and their mothers wings are fighting for life, with abortion being the leading cause of death. I am on my meter. I was in the ministry of pre-born has pregnancy centers nationwide standing by to help young moms in crisis.

Choose life freeborn is the largest provider of free ultrasound sessions in the country by letting the mother see her baby in the womb and hear the baby's heartbeat. She's 80% more likely to choose life for her baby when I'm sitting there letting me my ultrasound is lightning, and his word faces is like to cry and I can and sometimes the blessing is doubled. Would you join with pre-born in Jennifer today to help save 400 babies by the end of the year for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help save five babies from abortion and now through match your gift will be doubled to donate dial 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to click. Janet met this is Janet math or to provide a link international Esther is 17 years old and part of the Maasai tribe in Kenya Africa. Like many of her age and gender. Esther was subjected to practices not taught in the Bible. One is arranged marriage where a woman is forced to marry someone she doesn't know the other is female circumcision done out of superstitious belief with no known health benefits. Esther lived with bitter unforgiveness until a finally volunteer introduced her to Jesus.

Now she's let her husband to Christ and she seen 60 young women come to them race the hope of the gospel, but Bibles are scarce in this part of Kenya so please join by believe in sending God's word to finalist believers in Africa and around the world for only $5.20 Bibles costs $100 most generous gift by calling 800 yes word 800 YESWORD that's 800-937-9673 or there's a vital link banner to click Janet you're listening to Joe Mefford today though you look back.

Thanks for joining us and it's great to be joined by Dr. Paul Brownback, author of licensing selfishness. The Salic secular and evangelical ideology destroying America. We were talking before the break Dr. Brownback about the influence of Carl Rogers this idea that you just need to self-actualizing and no sign on to this unconditional love and acceptance now moving into the evangelical realm. We certainly have inculcated some of those nefarious ideas within the church. Can you talk about some of your concerns. What you're seeing in some areas of evangelicalism that are just mirroring what's going on in the culture oil of all my concern is extremely widespread and extremely extremely profoundly held with your pastor say something about God accepts you unconditionally there are some corollaries so that you don't have to perform God except you unconditionally let me if you don't have to perform to be accepted by him. Maybe I can live. However, I please and he's okay with that he's okay with me, and he looks down and smiled at me and they bring in some theological concept of a police report that, for example, they they teach that when we say God forgive our sin ex-president future and therefore when you look to see death and see our sin, he just sees the righteousness of Christ and therefore how we live not affect his attitude toward you. I'm sorry to say this, I'm so sorry I was good to see you here that all the time it's it's antinomianism is it not yet well I know God the idea of dead wheat we have to have a performance free relationship with God was nonperformance relationship is not that he could do to make God love you more, nothing you can do to make God love you very popular expression that we share today and yes it is antinomianism and related… One of the theological perspective on this is that the the ultimate antagonist is realism. Legalism, the worst thing to happen. We understand that if God acceptance unconditionally, then to say that we have to meet some standard in order to please him is is considered terrible. Yes. So yes, what we have the data go in and here are three important white in time past. We talked about legalism while were talking about Christians who say we shouldn't smoke you shouldn't drink or you shouldn't go to movies or whatever.

Today legalism is different because God acceptance unconditionally. Legalism is any standard that a person must keep in order to please God.

Yes, he said he will you live this way or that way, or you can cohabit so that's legalistic. It's terrible.

I mean I think right away of Romans chapter 6 what shall we say then are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase may it never be. How can those of us who have died to sin still live in it and in you bring up this passage with some of these people who get into this really abuse of God's grace and they you're right they really do see anybody who says but wait a minute. We are called to holiness. Jesus said that if you love meal, keep my commandments. I mean, what about that well. But you know you there's nothing we can do. We can send our way out of our relationship with God that this takes us dangerous places no I mean I think this is really an attitude that has led to a lot of licentiousness. I mean look at the abortion rate among evangelicals look at the acceptance of homosexuality.

Neither even this so-called home homosexual marriage you're seen some of the approval ratings within professing evangelicalism.

It's shocking to me but it seems like that's that's the connection is in it yet you can understand how that work product of unconditionally fellowship with him is not affected at all by her performance, then we are free to live.

However, we want to end up affected church attendance. Now they define church a regular church attenders somebody who shows up for the month and I was a regular church gender with somebody who came three times a weekend. No more than the proliferation of pornography.

This divorce rate, cohabitation, a big one and might be offended if you love your listener, but the watching movies with nudity yeah yeah okay now widely accepted and I remember way back when the Playboy magazine first came out and only dirty old man would buy that now we have Christians looking at unity in movies, which is even worse. That's okay telehealth for our standards have fallen know you're totally right and I say to you listeners.

If you're offended by that be offended because God wants you to be extended because honestly I mean it's true we need to get back to the word of God and what the word of God says about these things, not just what the culture is saying about these things and this is also really strike you Dr. Brownback that it shows our worldliness, doesn't it. Because really, as Christians, we ought to have that barrier up that when some worldly philosophy is trying to make its way into our churches. We recognize it is brands and reject it. The fact that that's not happening in greater numbers, really shows how worldly we become well and get back to our playing loose with the word of God. Yes, we cherry pick.

Now, you mentioned earlier if you point out certain passages to people will they just kind of ignore that and it's incredible when you stop and think of how many countless passages of Scripture theory violates and yet, that doesn't seem to bother them right. And that's the tragic thing I challenge people look what you need to do is pick up the word of God and read through it and read it for the first time we did like you've never read it before and see what it really says take off the the cultural glasses and and let it speak for itself and I believe people would be shocked at what they would find yeah absolutely right that's that's is so important and it's kinda sad that we even need to say it but it's very very true. You know what you're looking at the problem of selfishness across society. What are some of your thoughts about returning as you talked about earlier to agape love.

You know, and an understanding that America's greatness is not just tied to our founding documents of our freedom are values and principles. Really those things were byproducts of Christian culture. What are your thoughts on, you know, our repentance and and you know restoring things to the way that they ought to be. Well first of all church to get better health and they have heard themselves of this unconditional love and acceptance concept. Get back to Scripture. So the first thing we did when you think about the implications of unconditional love and acceptance to really undermine the authority of God if he acceptance unconditionally done none of his pronouncements in Scripture have any impact on the because free from all so it would need to return to the authority of God the authority of Scripture and abduction that should bring us to repentance. That should bring us to again preaching and teaching about sin, which of course if God accepted unconditionally. There's no there's no point in the talk about them because it's irrelevant by my dear wife keep saying you know this country just need to read when we do, but if God acceptance unconditionally, nothing to repent officer and we have to get rid of that life.

First, and then we have to then we have to look at a lot of repent of our sin and we have to return to righteous living. But then, but then as a church want our want to our strength is renewed. Once we reviewed regain our vitality by getting back to Scripture and repenting and starting to live righteous lives, then as a church. I believe we need to do for paying for four need to have unity.

We desperately need unity in the church about out of my thought about all work in the same building or whatever. I'm talking about unifying in our assaulting our our fighting the culture war we have to as long as were splendored left is not worried about but but if we would be unified.

We could make a powerful statement. I think of social media these days all conservatives want is a time in the castle culture. Same thing but if we were unified would have the power to fight that.

That is really important and you can read more about it in the book is called licensing selfishness. The secular evangelical ideology destroying America by Dr. Paul Brownback back from you so much for your wisdom and for being with us really enjoyed your book. It was great having you here for having no God bless you Dr. Paul Brownback for joining us on Janet my for today and we will see next

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