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Wesley Smith (Bioethics) Anne Cori (Phyllis Schlafly)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
May 11, 2020 6:30 am

Wesley Smith (Bioethics) Anne Cori (Phyllis Schlafly)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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May 11, 2020 6:30 am

In the age of COVID-19, some ghoulish bioethicists are making terrifying recommendations, including letting patients become human experiments. Do we dare cede power to such immoral health-care overlords? Bioethics expert Wesley J. Smith joins me to talk about it. Plus: How does the FX drama series "Mrs. America" get conservative icon Phyllis Schlafly so wrong? We'll hear what her daughter, Anne Schlafly Cori, has to say on Monday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or is our confidence is in Christ alone, I sort of know things are joining us. Everybody pandemic. It's become more obvious to a lot of Americans, how much power the unelected so-called experts have in determining policies that affect every one of us, and for many of us that is a problematic scenario. But what if we yield to the same scenario. On another front of the healthcare field, that of bioethics is my next guest points out, yielding to bioethical technocrats would be particularly perilous since the experts placed in charge of policy would be bioethicists whose predominant views disparage the sanctity of human life and it will shock you when you learn what some of these bioethicists are actually saying out there, especially about human life in the Cove in 19 era Serena tackle it all now with author and bioethics expert Wesley J. Smith, chair of the Discovery Institute center on human exceptionalism consultant to the patient's rights Council and writer over national review is a great piece out on this subject. The bioethicist Wesley, always great to have you here that I could get a good talk to you under Google. Thank you so much. You say we have to societally isolate from the bioethicist pandemic and I think that's really good advice tell people what's going on out there yet. You don't bioethics field, but many people might've generally heard of but don't know a whole lot about most of the good scores take place above the public awareness New York Times (the copper worker saying to each other about their articles, but they have tremendous influence future of the people who are putrid are major universities with doctors of tomorrow. The nurses of tomorrow.

Chris defined quark video would be a drive the government on public policy from the legislation, and it would be one thing if of the field was dominated by people who believe in the Hippocratic oath or who believe in the sanctity of life, human life, but it isn't the people who dominate the field. The people who teach at Harvard. The people who teach at Princeton.

The people who teach at Oxford and Cambridge and all those places and love love love like a Catholic university or something to stain the sanctity of human life and they would replace that approach with what is called the quality of life approach, which can lead to some very dire consequences to the will most weak and vulnerable among us will write you cite a number of these bioethicists in your piece and I was very shocked when I was reading about even in a pandemic, you have some of these bioethicist from Oxford who professors at Oxford who want a license to permit seriously ill Cove in 19 patients to be consensually experimented upon. Even if the research is dangerous, and it goes downhill from there.

What what are these men trying to suggest Cove. In 19 patients ought to do.

What are the elderly over 19 patients now understand that in the quality of life approach and elderly person of value may have less worth than a younger person's value is sometimes called quality adjusted life year, and that's a form of healthcare rationing were somebody who has a bike vital life. A very healthy will be worth more in terms of determining healthcare coverage and so forth. In somebody website was disabled and we can get into that in more detail if you like, but they then maybe I may publish his book called the Journal of medical ethics which is a very major bioethics publication in the not only said that that elderly people should be experimented on. If it would help them, but also they should be allowed to volunteer to be experimented on in terms of dangerous experiment if it would not help us if they if they were sick. They also argued and this is you know it's a hop from Oxford University. One of the world's major bioethics journal, so this is somebody in the corner wearing a tinfoil hat right right. They also argued that if somebody got very sick and were euthanasia euthanasia is illegal, that rather than kill them they should actually kill them by harvesting their organs so another words a live harvest which of course results in death because you see when you give up the sanctity of human life, you start to look at people as commodities and it's it's really an awful thing and then they also said that people who are at significant risk for this should allow themselves to be intentionally basically infected with COBIT if there are with the vaccine experiment in NFL, but only if they find a living will, saying that if it became seriously ill. They would not want life-sustaining care. So another words were going to test a vaccine on your some treatments on you were going to intentionally infect you that results in your serious illness were not going to do the kind of life-sustaining treatment that might save your life when you have when you write something like that by very influential people in healthcare who have a lot of say in a lot of sway, then you are not, in my view, standing up for the most weak and vulnerable and you were certainly in contrary to the contrariness to what should be the standards of medical ethics about the mention human research and even human researchers closer to animal testing before you even begin to do animal I made unit test that's really what it seems to me a little weird to say to a code 19 patients.

Your life doesn't matter enough. Let let's just make sure that you sacrifice your own life to save lives of others, but there's no guarantee that that person who might submit to that sort of proposal would ever be saving a human life. I mean, what is that all about whether the way they try to talk people under you know elderly people, particularly now view her members of the greatest generation. Right. Right. They were the people who went through World War II. The depression and so forth and and so the selling point is that they're calling it extreme all truism so that they want to appeal to the self sacrificial side of that generation, which was we have to say incredibly self sacrificial for many many years and but it's wrong to take elderly people like that who were going to be in a weakened state anyway who may be in an extended care who may not have a full rationality that they had when they were younger and try to kind of persuade them of day should be sacrificing themselves for the rest of society. We know the ones who are most at risk for this man that so you know I'm wondering soon you're talking about the organ donation.

Euthanasia proposals would that be for elderly patients because it would seem, in many cases, elderly patients would not be good candidates for a lot of organ donation simply because of the elder older state of their organs. They may not being good enough shape to want to know a doctor wanting to be transplanting those particular organs or are they not the targeted group there. It's just other people would be organ donation euthanasia victims potentially who is targeted here for that. That was looked at him and basically say that you a lot of time. You organs might not be usable. Just if they died of COBIT. 19.

The organs might not be usable, but they were riffing off of a previous article I wrote that was unrelated to the pandemic in which it basically argued and they have not been alone in bioethics that where euthanasia is legal rather than and by the way, sometimes euthanasia and organ harvesting, are being conjoined in the Netherlands are conjoined in Belgium there conjoined in Canada are close with cultural cousins. People go to hospital are killed and their organs are harvested, and these people are killed long before they would've died a natural death, and in fact in Canada if somebody asked for euthanasia. The organ in Ontario.

The organ procurement nonprofit organization is contacted and then the organization contacts the suicidal person is as well, since you're going to be killed. Can we have your organs.

Can you imagine not even any attempted suicide prevention, these authors have written previously and was that anybody who wants to be euthanized should be allowed to be euthanized not by lethal injection or assisted suicide, but by going into a surgical suite and having the organs removed while they are living which is just a sick, disgusting idea, and of course, is contrary to everything that the organ transplant medical ethics are supposed to be about the dead donor rule says you cannot take a vital organ. Unless the patient is is no longer a patient but as a cadaver and this would with dialogue killing by organ donation by organ procurement and different articles in the piece of furniture that was written there was publishing the American Spectator an article in the Journal of heart and lung transplantation hang on just a moment. Wesley will come right back to that were to take a quick break on Jennifer today coming back with Wesley J. Smith. After this here's Dan Steiner, president of pre-born with an important update the code 19 virus is having a terrible impact for the most vulnerable among us, the unborn this past week, a woman sure she feared being pregnant was so much going on in the world.

The abortionist gave her an RU-486 pill to terminate her pregnancy are pre-born sinners there for her, however, reverse the abortion pill and saved her baby crisis line is flooded with women similar stories pre-born sinners are the alternative to Planned Parenthood, and this may through a challenge grant pre-born will be able to send $100,000 to clinics. If this goal is reached, and you can help, call 855402 baby that's 855-402-2229 one. Ultrasound is just $28 that this challenge will double your efforts to donate, just call 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229. All gifts are tax-deductible. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a pre-born banner to click and are you in need of a healthcare program you're in line. As a member of Liberty healthcare in your part of a community comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up throughout the year.

With membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments program start as low as $199 per month and there's no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals.

Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens. Find out more by calling 855-565-2561 that's 855-565-2561 or visit Liberty helped that's liberty help you're listening to you what you read some of this material put out by these bioethicists in some of these journals that a lot of us don't regularly read, if ever, and you just get a little bit more skeptical about the idea of putting our lives in the hands of experts, that's for sure. Wesley J Smith is joining us chair the Discovery Institute center on human exceptionalism, writer, national review and author of a great piece at the American Spectator called the bioethicist pandemic. I wanted to let you pick up Wesley. We unfortunately had to take a short break there, but we were talking about these Oxford professors discussing the issue of organ donation euthanasia you are outline some of the policies that are horrific in places like the Netherlands and Canada for organ donation but you were mentioning there was another publication also that that touched on this issue. You want to go on with that and where we were leaving off their right before the break. Sure sure the reason I'm mentioning this is that, again, it's really important to understand that these are not obscure kind of fringe publications that these articles are appearing in but as mainstream as you get so there was IPO. I link to one of them. It's called heart harvesting was published in the Journal of heart and lung transplantation. That's a medical journal, internationally respected medical journal and in with all due respect and without criticism in this journal the usual bioethicist offers argued that we you know would be much better to get hearts that were alive when they were taken, rather than waiting for death because organs can be damaged after after people by cold war machine you and so the euthanasia would be by moving the heart while the heart was beating this that is really really disgusting and and and again, not fringe, I'm not so I don't know whether that issue is a majority issue in bioethics, but it is these kinds of advocacy pieces are clearly respected because they are being published in the most mainstream journals.

If you said that somebody should receive some kind of unethical care such as that based on race, you'd be called a bigot improperly so.

And yet the saying that because somebody is is dying, or somebody might be disabled and want to die and want to be euthanized because euthanasia is not limited to the terminally ill, that they should be organ harvested as a means of euthanasia, much less being killed is just a stunning thing to perceive and there was I think I published. I link to and quoted another article which said this is again in the Journal of medical ethics of the solution several years ago were what we want to learn how to engage in zero transplantation matters using animal organs for humans and humans because we have such an organ shortage. There are people dying on the waiting list and if we could look for genetically engineer a pig and and then use of a pig. Kidney or a pink lever to save a human life. We should do that. However, there is a problem in terms of safety because there might be particularly germane today might be a porcine virus that could cross the species barrier in such a procedure right and so these and in the Journal of medical ethics. This was a bit ago. These doctors and bioethicist suggested well let's use people in a persistent vegetative state.

People I carry Scheible's where you would have claimed about Terry Scheible I should say where we would take out their human kidneys and perhaps transplant them in a human and put in pig kidneys and keep them alive as long as we could to see what happened but we shouldn't call them patients because that gets in the way. What we want to do. We should call them living cadavers living cadavers is that cannot jumbo shrimp with his dad sits in the cut contradiction in terms is not what you think we have to we have to use euphemisms because if we look at straightforward at the awfulness that were proposing we might not go for Manchester Orwellian speech X clear when you talk about the living donors of their hearts.

I mean these guys could just partner up at the Chinese Communist Party and Isis right Justine, I'll go get those beating hearts, what, what's the difference if it's what you know if you're doing that in a medical setting versus as a terrorist or a communist. What's the moral difference there doesn't seem to be any and all you utilitarian pipe advocacy were whatever maximizes reduces suffering the most. Or causes suffering relief is deemed good as opposed to actual right and wrong so that we end up with a weighing and measuring of utilitarian benefits is another one that I and this is much more recent than that pig experiment article. The bioethicist named Thaddeus Mason. Polk was becoming quite prominent and he is he is one of the foremost proponent was called BF ED voluntary stop eating and drinking in other words, suicide by starvation and of the compassion choices which used to be called the Hemlock Society actually have material to teach people how to starve themselves to death and Abbott advocates the doctors palliate the symptoms so that the self starvation suicide could be successful. Hope is gone. Even beyond somebody woefully starving themselves to death to say and write that people who are diagnosed with dementia should for Kim should be able to fill out a living will or an advance medical directive and and instruct future caregivers to withhold spoon feeding from them and water when they become incompetent another workforce caregivers to starve patients to death, even if they willingly eat or drink.

Now this is just a God awful idea because you're not only the patient is not only committing suicide, which are forcing people in nursing homes or perhaps family to participate in that awful act as result of starvation and I don't think it would never happen because Nevada has actually passed a law that authorizes just such advanced directive instructions to be issued. This is the thing with bioethics. They are very influential even though they're not upfront on CNN or they're not upfront on in the newspapers. They have an quite often things get passed in the legislature because they've testified or they've helped write legislation and so forth and so pulp is been pushing this for a long time. I don't know that he had ended anything to do with the Nevada law or not. But Nevada has now legalized his pernicious advocacy is not just arguing about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Bioethics is about changing policy and imposing values that most of the people in this country. I don't believe follow know and how can you proclaim yourself as a bioethicist when you're showing no ethics at all. In situations like that and what you're saying they are. The danger is, most people have no idea who these men are you follow them very closely. Thank you Lord for that because that's how we all learn about it. Is there any organized group that opposes these bioethicist, is there any other organization that would write back to some of these journals and push back and say you shouldn't be printing this garbage.

This is ghoulish.

I would say organized report for people who are might have a modifier in front of the term bioethicist like Catholic or Christian or conservative pro-life folder. Of course there are people engaged in the field who believe in the sanctity of human life, and there is a fellow at Fordham University. Charles Comeau see if so your listeners a been watching Tucker Carlson at all. He's kind of become Tucker Carlson go to bioethicist out he has a very moral approach and he's been warning Tucker Carlson that we should not discriminate against elderly people in this Coburg pandemic people like Richard Dorfman you're used to be with the Catholic bishops people like Robbie George of Princeton who is not really in the bioethics department is in political science and English, but he gets involved in these issues. People like you've all love them and a few others are people out there but they do not have this way, and there are not nearly as many of that type of person have is the mainstream view which is which really does have the predominant influence in public policy infected just to show you how that works. You may remember when George W. Bush was president of the stem cell embryonic stem sulfite got going, I was deeply involved in that the president President Bush W Bush appointed Leon Kass to head the Pres.'s council on bioethics. Now Leon Kass is is a very was what and it was a very prominent bioethics account of pioneer, but he believes in the unique dignity of human life and the howling and screaming from the predominant bioethics community because Cassa been appointed to lead this commission with Stephanie 11 prominent bioethicist even called him an assassin in the publishing I think it was called the piece of the American Journal bioethics. I might be wrong about where was, but he called us an assassin because he was opposed to human cloning research, so, so you can see that when there is any chance for conservative people want of a better term order on dignity of life bioethicist to have real influence that the agony and the screaming and the anger within the mainstream community. It is quite pronounced, so that tells you everything you need to know about where this movement seeks to take what are your fears about where this is all headed when you talk about the bioethicist pandemic what what what are your worst nightmare. Sarah in terms of what kind of domino effect may occur that will affect us in the coming days. If you decide if you decide you're going to violate the sanctity of human life because were in a dire catastrophe which of course we are well, that doesn't mean that that violation goes away when the catastrophe eases.

In fact, you create a precedent and you've created expectations and in and it's like in law. A lawyer bad facts make bad law aright for the same thing would apply here. If you have these awful circumstances, and you engage in unethical approaches both on ethical approaches have now been established is acceptable and that doesn't mean they go away. In fact, they become the new launching pad for the next round of even more unethical approaches. So we have to do is fight this at every turn, while well that is such important information. Wesley J. Smith. You can read it over and bioethicist pandemic. Thank you, Leslie will be back on Janet this archived broadcast of Janet met for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies.

Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet met Janet Mefford today and here's your host Joe never saw combat.

Phyllis Schlafly was one of the great conservative heroes of the 20th century, having first come to national prominence by successfully mobilizing Americans against the ERA, or equal rights amendment will now Hollywood is putting its own span and smear on Phyllis Schlafly and her legacy in a nine part TV series on FX. Hulu called Mrs. America but in the Hollywood tradition of smearing conservatives. This TV series gets a whole lot of Phyllis Schlafly wrong and so working to find out the truth now from Phyllis's daughter and Schlafly Corey great to have you with us.

How are you thank you so much for having me on your hand again. Glad to have you here. Set the record straight here but let's let's start with this far in advance. Were you aware that they were to put out this TV show about your mother and to what extent that they involve you in any of the research on your mom married and involve me at all. I asked and was revived by Dave been in production for some time. I first learned about it at that two years ago and it's an all-star cast and may have an All-Star agenda to bring back Feminism and bring back the equal rights amendment and get to that warrant may fictionalize my mother and rainmaker into somebody that she was not for those of us who knew it. It's really shocking the way they portray her as powermad and Dan and Carolyn let me on what we are we to begin critiquing this particular series. How did they get your mom wrong. Fundamentally, in terms of her character in terms of her personality. What do you observe first and foremost when you're watching it well.

My mother was able to be an inspiration to women and she ran a bring organization because we admired her, followed her and she inspired them what they shall put a tracer and being cold, cruel calculating of her own supporters. You have a successful organization. If you are so kind of funding to the people who are following each well and you say that they also mischaracterize some of the characters and their real people like your aunt's rights. They they totally misconstrued who she is there an agenda that glides to list to show different idea that that my money didn't care about women who were never married women who didn't have children after they make Whole plot line portraying my aunt as a wallflower I and dad completely cowed by my mother. None of it is true. My aunt Gary successfully ran her own recognization for 50 years.

She fully supported everything that I met again and probably more importantly, when Phyllis and Elinor were in a room together dominating force of whales hand but but in the series they portray your mom is the dictator in your answer is the willing subservience as its sidekick think that's another point of granting this Phyllis with neurotic dictator. She thought where she got I couldn't go lean, inspiring and mandatory minimum marked my calendar right that so troops something else that you talked about is the fact that Mrs. America slurs by innuendo.

For example, on the issue of race what what is in the series that gets into that particular topic. Sam soon wearing some external supporters of equal flat to totally made up characters because they couldn't find real life people to babies who actually said before, that they shall be fictional characters and saying something really ugly words and it wasn't true, and we know who was the leader of the Louisiana Eagle farm and she never would've done anything like that. You can tell it wasn't true because they trying to pretend that there was a connection with the Ku Klux Klan KKK was a Democratic party operation and never had anything to do with competitive Republicans discussing what your dad because how do they portray your father in the series, as opposed to you in real life what he was like well, they employed him as an insensitive brute because they don't have my friend had a very acute sense of humor, and he always liked to joke about being called Mrs. something that he now I and and felt great learning that he often fed, and I think this is where the producers missed the humor he said I regret that I have but one wife to get to my country. It's good I like that line that's funny how he and then hunched over humor because I you know if you if you see people as flat evil demonic people. You can't flesh them out with the real right if they wanted to accurately portray your mother and father. They might have actually worked with you, you know, to find out what they were really needed to think it's some sort of caveat in the series. I haven't seen it but did they get a copy at the series.

This is not a biography.

You know were not trying to be literal here. This is a fictitious entertainment thing today to give any caveat of that sort of alignment based on correct right) characters and dialogue made up characters and dialogue and it made out on the right side and making up characters on the left side there only making at the fictional characters to drive the story on the right side settled your dad and they make up a fictional character who becomes disillusioned with seller and I may have to go to press their own agenda mean the producer was actually quoted as saying that she didn't want to talk to me because she didn't want the fox to get in the way with her telling of the story. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story that's always a thing going into a biographical staircase. You don't want to find out what the actual facts are despicable to have you been in touch with them at all since this series has Ron, have you had any opportunity to speak with any of the people involved in the production and air some of your concerns directly to them, they wouldn't and give me an advance copy of the shell.

They said no you can't have a screen that was not their own point of view. You know what you call filling opportunity for people to learn about this remarkable story and an opportunity for me to talk to you because this woman came from a small town in the middle of the country and yet what, four years after she's dead were still talking about seems truly unremarkable life that's worth learning apart and so we put on our own website to show reach beyond our feet. Hollywood version but the true version. Now I can't got a lackey that's great that's great. Six people can go there.

What would you most like people to know about your mom. Obviously she was very famous. Lots of people felt like they knew her because they followed her work so close closely and work involved in a lot of what Eagle form did what you most want to stress to people who knew nothing about your mom what the truth was about her in terms of her personality and what sort of person she was to you.

You know who would know her better than anybody in color when her core belief why her and God informed every political function will ever lap throughout her 70 year career, both on her core. I'm glad for all of us to remember your wild caught is that if you believe you will always remain a model of integrity and a model of how to frequent yourself in the public because she was able to plan from the other side graciously and the flake and everyone knew where she any time there was no waffling. That's right well and she was so affected she was so smart and articulate not arrest what when you look at this whole thing.

Obviously there's an agenda here.

I know you and I have talked before about the left strive to try to reinvigorate the ERA is that really what you think the bottom line is they need to demonize your mother so that they can convince an ignorant younger generation who didn't know much about her that the ERA is needed more than ever more formal. I'm good about proud to push him right in the 1970 clear Hollywood version of how body lacked more than 12. How clearly defined as a learning crawler.

Absolutely we can go to Mrs. as an Schlafly Cory points out to find out the real Phyllis Schlafly and thank you so much for being here and keep up the good work. Thank you, thank you God bless you will be back on Jennifer today. Here, Stan Steiner, president of pre-born with an important update. 19 is trading a surgeon unplanned pregnancies as American children place.

Meanwhile pre-born crisis lines are flooded and we have quadrupled our patients seeking abortions help was needed now more than ever as clinics had to cancel spring fundraisers would you consider sponsoring an ultrasound to introduce mom to the pre-born babies. When a young mom sees her baby and also some shall choose life 80% of the time reborn centers are the alternative to Planned Parenthood, and this may through a challenge grant. Pre-born is able to send $100,000 to clinics. If this goal is reached. You can help, call 855402 baby now one ultrasound is just $28. But this challenge will double your efforts to donate this call 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229. All gifts are tax-deductible. Once again, call 855402 baby or there's a banner to click are you in need of a healthcare program you're in line is a member of Liberty healthcare in your part of a community comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up throughout the year. With membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments program start as low as $199 per month and there's no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses in your time of need.

Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens. Find out more by calling 855-565-2561 855-565-2561 or visit Liberty that's liberty help you're listening to you today is quite amazing how many churches are beginning to push back against their governmental entities, whether it's a mayor or governor and saying listen we don't like your shutdowns anymore. We don't think their constitutional we have been willing to sit on the sidelines into online church, but enough is enough. How long you get to keep us in chains, so to speak, and in Illinois. It's really reach this insane level governor JB Pritzker who is a super progressive has already been sued by a couple of different churches, the beloved church and Lena Illinois in the also the Northwest Bible Baptist Church represented by Jeremy Dyson first Liberty Institute. We talked to him about that case last week but they had this re-open Illinois plan giving guidance to schools and businesses in churches about when they'll be allowed to reopen. Right now they're in phase 2 of the planned for phase 3, you can have gatherings of up to 10 people in phase 4. You can get up to 50 people, but you can't have a gathering of more than 50 people until phase 5, and even Pritzker acknowledge that could take more than a year to get to face but you know how long those people who have said it's fine for churches to be shut down out of a concern for public health and safety deed is put in infinite number on that they can shut us down for 25 years now. Health and safety there viruses out there. We really need to be cognizant of the fact that we can get sex if we have church now as if none of us could ever get sick in church before and I'm not seen the coronavirus is on par with the flu necessarily in terms of its contagion and all the rest. I know all these arguments I'm gonna skip over them because you know I know these things by, here's the point. You have what's going on in Illinois now just staying in Illinois. You have all kinds of people who are suing their states. Churches were suing their states who are recognizing you guys are really pushing us here and at what point do Christians need to gather in person again. There some churches that need to gather.

I think more urgently. In some cases, like that one church that has ministry to drug abusers and people who need in person care and ministry.

But you say well we can shut down a long time even had communion in weeks. Right we haven't been able to have Quinton here for weeks we haven't been able to get anybody baptized for weeks. Don't those things matter to nobody wants to be reckless all the churches are talking about social distancing and wearing face masks and taking all the necessary precautions. They're not trying to throw caution to the wind, but there is a point which they say go to Walmart like you have church which is a good question.

Now, WGN TV reported on the whole situation with Northwest Bible Baptist Church and some of these other churches pushing back in Illinois, Jeremy Dyson. We talked to last week from first Liberty was interviewed here. This is One if you're allowed to shop down the grocery are allowed to gather in the following section of Home Depot you should be able to safely gather also in person at your church. The church says it will require face coverings and take parishioners temperatures as they enter see family 6 feet apart in every other row of pews use a deposit box for offerings close childcare in Sunday school and ask those 65 and older to stay home. Why haven't seen that letter, the governor asked about the communication at his daily briefing today and if he plans to enforce his executive order banning gatherings of 10 or more.

I have discouraged local law enforcement from arresting people.

I have not discourage them from reminding them what their obligations are to each other and I would think that a house of worship and the pastor would know better and not encourage their parishioners to put themselves and their families in danger. Well that is just amazing.

Are they really in that much danger of their social distancing and wearing masks like you require and Walmarts that that's where it gets a little confusing now.

They also go on to talk about the County Sheriff's Department getting this letter is cut to County Sheriff Ron Hayne confirmed this letter from the church saying that they have shared their plans for reducing attendance numbers encouraging the susceptible to not attend and requiring PPE to enter their building. We will work with our health department and states attorneys office to address violations of the governor's executive orders while preserving citizens constitutional rights under the governor's restore Illinois plan gatherings of 50 or more are not supposed to be allowed until phase 5. That's when a vaccine or treatment is available. Some of these churches. They say that weight is just too long for them to think about this for moment that that's quite amazing. Phase 5 can't begin until a vaccine is widely available, or a highly effective therapeutic drug is released 12 to 18 months away.

According to Dr. found she so you really get to keep the churches of Illinois close down for 18 months were all at the whim of filed she and an executive order from JB Pritzker in order to assemble ourselves together is the book of Hebrews talks about is there not a line between the First Amendment and sensible healthcare directives that needs to be figured out.

Because this is just insane. How long will you submit to being closed down. When is it safe to go out there who knows anymore who knows anymore it's very difficult when you're looking at them.

The modeler of all this is we've discussed with Dr. enter Boston recently, Neil Ferguson, who is now been you know that the big modeler over in the UK who got in trouble for his non-lockdown activity, shall we say any who do you trust anymore. That's fundamentally, what's going on here and I want to talk about some of these other states that have pushed back here. For example, is a story in the daily signal about 170 pastors in Virginia. Plus are saying enough.

They have sent a letter to Gov. Ralph nor them asking him to modify two executive orders to allow religious gatherings at least once a week.

This is part of what they had to say. The church of the Lord Jesus Christ is a hospital for the spiritually sick yet corporate worship services of more than 10 people have been banned in Virginia since March 23 prohibiting corporate worship services has exacerbated the sense of sorrow, isolation and fear felt by so many citizens across the Commonwealth. So that's a letter but you also have a lot of lawsuits you have this story here. For example, from the Detroit News Michigan church leaders sue to stop Witmer stay home order three Michigan church leaders, including the state house speaker's father filed suit against Gov. Gretchen Witmer stay home order in federal court arguing it violated their First Amendment rights to free exercise and to assembly.

Here's another story. 10. Oregon churches sue the governor they are want to worship without restrictions amid the coronavirus pandemic. This was a lawsuit that was just filed an Salem-based attorney Ray hacks that if were risking our lives to go to church if we survive great if we die, there were going to heaven if we want to take that risk, then it's on us. I thought when I read that quote he's touching on something that I think a lot of us feel life is not without risk. Is it seen a pandemic is something we face all the time. We've never faced before and I'm not trying to be antiscience, and I'm not trying to be an anti-vector and I'm not trying to say the government is completely evil and there's nobody trustworthy in the government.

I'm not one of those people. But on the other hand, life is a risk everything you do in life is a calculated risk, and in this era of safe spaces.

I think there are many Americans who just don't grasp that you are taking a risk. Every time you get behind the wheel of a car you taking a risk when you walk down a sidewalk you're taking a risk when you go in your bathtub for heaven sake, look at the statistics on people who are hurt or even die after they fall in their bathtubs now do we stop taking baths.

Do we stop getting behind the wheel of a car because we understand that there is a risk because we have to function we have to bathe.

We have to go places. It's a calculated risk, and you should be careful about the risks that you take.

It's a far cry from handcuffing yourself and jumping out of an airplane and seeing what happens if you try to open your parachute with your flight. That's a dumb risk because you're pretty much guaranteed you're going to die, but it seems to me that the coronavirus shutdowns are somewhere in the middle between those two things and it is very important in the midst of all of this in my opinion that the Constitution be followed regardless of what the emergency is the Constitution has to be followed because we have to go on with life at some point we have to go on with life to the best of our ability, and if you have churches you say we want to gather but will be very very careful will do all of the things that you are requiring some of these essential businesses to deal with face coverings and with no sanitizer in social distancing, and all the rest, but good grief to shut us down totally then almost seems hostile. Let's see, there's another church in Maine. Calvary Chapel is suing in Maine over this order barring in person. Worship services also in Minnesota to Twin Cities churches in several business owners are calling on Gov. Tim waltzed and what they call an unconstitutional and draconian scheme to close them during the pandemic. That's from the Minneapolis Star Tribune and you have in Maryland three Maryland state delegates in several Maryland pastors and businesses have filed a lawsuit in federal court against Gov. Larry Hogan and he just goes on and on and on and on and on and I think it's just gonna be interesting to see how this all shakes out in the end, this is an interesting thing in the Maryland case. The complaint states.

The governor has purported to be, bishopric and pastor to every church in Maryland by deciding when, where, and how each church shall worship God. That's a very interesting phrase. It's a very interesting point that that complaint is making because it's true it's really true for any of the separation of church and state how closely do we need to adhere to that separation that the liberals love to tell when were in good times, church and state while at the state out of the church will be cautious will be careful. You can't just unilaterally shut us down right China place night hopefully never to leave it there.

Thank you for being with us on chant effort today will see next time. God bless

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