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Mark Hitchcock (Prophecy) Jim Franklin (Re-Open CA)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
May 13, 2020 5:00 am

Mark Hitchcock (Prophecy) Jim Franklin (Re-Open CA)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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May 13, 2020 5:00 am

How does the nation of Iran fit into biblical prophecy? We'll explore that with Bible prophecy expert and pastor Mark Hitchcock, author of the book, "Showdown with Iran." Plus: Pastor Jim Franklin of Cornerstone Church Fresno is one of thousands of California pastors who now say they'll defy Gov. Newsom's shutdown orders and re-open church on May 31. He'll explain why on Wednesday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or is our confidence is in Christ alone, I sort of know you so much for being with the United States commission on International religious freedom is at a ran is not only a country of particular turn for religious persecution of Christians, but it's also the world's chief trafficker and anti-Semitism. This, in addition to being the leading state sponsor of terror as president trumpets pointed out exporting dangerous missiles fueling conflicts across the Middle East and supporting terrorist proxies and militias like has blah Hamas and the Taliban. Now, in light of the dangers posed by this rogue regime. How does this radical Islamic nation into Bible prophecy and explore that today with Bible prophecy expert, Dr. Mark Hitchcock. He is associate professor at Dallas theological seminary and serves as senior pastor of Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma. He's written many many books and is out with a new great one called showdown with Iran is so good to have you here Mark how are you right it's good to be back with government all my pleasure. Well, we should talk about a ran II think that meant many times when a ran is not on the front burner and other things on the front burner. We tend to pretend okay. They knew they were up upset for a while now everything is gonna gone away but what is your sense of the importance of a ran especially when it comes to Bible prophecy will you know Iran is obviously the number one sponsor of terror in the world today trying to cross the nuclear finish line. But I think with all the rotten wood coronavirus bullet as you said, it's got a bit, been put on the bug burner but you're just a few days ago are no longer eligible president no permission to shoot down this boats that are harassing boats that are in the golf harassing our US naval vessels your Ron is put a satellite into sharp military satellite in space and from a biblical perspective. Your Ron is mentioned in an end time prophecy of Ezekiel 38 shows that no one in Israel has been regathered to the wider coalition of nations are going to attack Israel and the times are one of those motions in Ezekiel 38 verse five is Persia which course became a wrong, 1935, so that you took incredible validation of of the Bible so long ago God predicted the rise of this notion of medium time so I think it's a very significant event that's taking place. The rise of Iran and really there. Their tentacles spread throughout the entire car Middle East are there. The dominant nation really there in the Middle East today and the dominant enemy of Israel in the United States while you're right about that and it's curious because there are obviously a lot of different rogue nations around the world and there a lot of bad actors in the Middle East. They become kind of this flashpoint nation. I mean, we hear about them, the Ayatollah talking about Israel as being the little Satan in America being the great Satan. But what has transpired. Would you say Mark to make that nation is important as it is in terms of our attention to it and how dangerous it has become world are several things. One of the larger most populated countries are not an Arab country director speak for shooter different nations around them, with their large mission. They also pursued nuclear weapons which many of the other nations have not done that have a lot of proxies of house belong right in Lebanon right just north of Israel, but have Islamic Jihad down in Gaza just on the West Coast of Israel. They themselves are inferior views, the whole Syrian Civil War is a opportunity to come into to the Scriptures literally right there on Israel's northern other also lived the a lot of their territory lies right along the Persian Gulf, so they control a lot of that in that near little narrow straight of Hormuz work so much of the world oil goes every day there were the right there on the straight of Hormuz controlling the intimidating ships to go through there so just another their size or geographical location pursued nuclear weapons. There proxies I have all over the Middle East about a lot of proxies in Iraq as well been American forces there so it's all those things together make them really the most dangerous nation in the world and many wife but are not the most powerful but I think in many ways, are the most dangerous nation because with a lot of things are happening over there now. I think to the leaders of their could, try to say, look, you know we've been having a lot of uprising over here a lot of economic problems due to sanctions no hole coronavirus.

We don't know how bad it hit a wrong. We think it hit him very badly. They could focus off of those findings and obviously put you know to to attack Israel or talk America and not come to get the focus of all the problems robbing back home through a lot of ingredients to make them very, very dangerous. Write what you know since we pulled out of the run nuclear deal in 2018. We still are not safe from the possibility of Iran getting a nuclear weapon. I mean, how soon do you think that could be a likelihood that that's something that continues to concern a lot of people think we really know Jimmy put up a military satellite or sometime back and we didn't really know that they have that kind of technology.

So what else don't we know there's all kinds of different ideas about how what to break out.

It is for Ron to get it to get a nuclear weapon, but we do know that they're working on this missile technology to become a delivery system when you get the nuclear weapon that we know all that's going on. We also know that this October October 23 being embargoed. It's been on of them not being able to buy or sell weaponry to be lifted unless something happens in the United Nations, which is fairly unlikely so that's generally good.

I think put a mission like Israel to the test because are they going to go in and try to launch a preemptive strike against Iran. Now for the gonna wait till Iran has access to all kinds of more advanced weaponry in the future and then risk the idea of having to make a preemptive strike or fighting a war with Iran. So there are a lot of factors that people expert, putting 2020.

This year, been focused. Think of something very dramatic. Could happen this year over there with Iran, theologically what is driving them because that's a significant part of it as well. Their Islamic theology what they believe about the end times, their view of Israel. How are they seen the you know the gaining of nuclear weapons is something that is important for them to do just from a religious standpoint, will Iran is doing nation will be sugar and Islamic measure, but they got a hold of a particular brand of Islam. It's it's their Shiite shield of, but the majority of Muslims are Sunnis. About 85% of the world are Shiites, but they also hold this form of Shiism called 12 or Shiism. They believe that the 12th Imam is a descendent of Mohammed. He went into hiding. When he was a young boy back in the ninth century. So since you wanted to hiding his boy office either was in the 13th or 14th or 15th Imam. He was the last one believe is going to come out of hiding.

At some point in the end times and now they believe is going to come at a time of bloodshed in warfare and chaos. They believe that hate that they can hasten his coming. I can actually accelerate and speed the coming of their body or their Messiah.

So all of that plays in as well.

11 expert. I'm sure many listeners know who Joel Rosenberg is he's called the leaders there. The mullah regime, an apocalyptic genocidal debacle. That's a pretty descriptive term. Three apocalyptic genocidal I want to wipe out the Jewish people and again were talking about Iran. I one thing I would like to clarify is not talking about the people of Iran to the people there.

We ship nothing.

If the people there. There's actually a lot of revival spiritually that's going on there, which is a wonderful fine store talking about the mullah regime runs the country of the Ayatollah and others, but they hold to that brand of Shiism that's very radical, very apocalyptic and so you know that those are not the Full that you want to get their hands on nuclear weapons now is there and is their primary target Israel because as I mentioned before, their statements about the little saint in the great Satan. They want us gone to, but when they go after Israel before they went after us will I think probably they would yield it or what they deserved or always diamond a lot of pinprick attacks against United States chiller going to hit some places in Iraq told her ships think they know better than to take on the you cleave and when we kill general Solomonic tests really didn't really do anything directly to bug back from them. But what's interesting to show Amani was the head of the part of the Iranian military called the Coons force and codes in their their terminology means Jerusalem, she was head of this force, told the Jerusalem force basically which shows you how much I hate Israel want to take over Israel. Although I was you she's on the size of their missiles alone with just as Israel was that one is out of the way because were the main defender and protector of his rise of Angola rafters to wipe Israel off about quality right back Mark Hitchcock's book is so down with Iran and will return right after this here's Dan Steiner, president of pre-born with an important update. 19 is trading a surgeon unplanned pregnancies as American children place. Meanwhile pre-born crisis lines are flooded and we have quadrupled our patients seeking abortions help is needed now more than ever as clinics had to cancel spring fundraisers would you consider sponsoring an ultrasound to introduce mom to the pre-born babies. When a young mom sees her baby and ultrasound should choose life 80% of the time pre-born centers are the alternative to Planned Parenthood, and this may through a challenge grants pre-born is able to send $100,000 to clinics. If this goal is reached. You can help, call 855402 baby now one.

Ultrasound is just $28.

But this challenge will double your efforts to donate this call 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229. All gifts are tax-deductible. Once again, call 855402 baby or there's a banner to click Janet met are you in need of a healthcare program you're in line is a member of Liberty healthcare in your part of a community comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up throughout the year. With membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments program start as low as $199 per month and there is no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens.

Find out more by calling 855-565-2561 855-565-2561 or visit Liberty that's Liberty you're listening to you. Thank you for being with us and we are delighted to have with us Dr. Mark Hitchcock Bible prophecy expert, author of the new book showdown with Iran nuclear run in the future of Israel, the Middle East and the United States in Bible prophecy.

Such important days were living in many many ways in reference to Ezekiel 38 Mark is a very key passage when it comes to the future of Iran to talk a little bit if you would about this. Gog and Magog, and that the showdown with Israel, and how I what the Bible predicts will happen in these last days 38 and 39 are incredible chapters in the Old Testament written over 2500 years ago and it predicts that once Israel is regathered to their land and their arrest in living securely rejects interesting because it doesn't seem to be the condition now, but when the rest of living securely to this coalition of nations. Russia is mentioned there. I believe in Ezekiel chapter 38 of ship told Roche. Then you have a Persian dimension which is a raw deal for different places that are mentioned are geographical places that are in modern-day Turkey. With the coalition of Russia and Iran and Turkey. Libya is also mentioned in this passage Suydam is also mentioned again under Chet's ancient name so all of these nations are combinations that surround Israel also. Some of the nations of central Asia could be even nations like Afghanistan, others are there to attack Israel. A million times.

You know what we see today received those nations really forming alliances with one another and all of them have a deep hatred and a deep-seated desire to see Israel wiped off the face of the earth and we again as I mentioned earlier we have Iran and Russia in Syria brought on Israel's northern border. So just what we see today is not the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 by I think it's the build up account of the setting of the stage if you will for this invasion to occur in the Bible says Wendy's nation. These nations do come down and Israel, which I believe will be during the first half of the coming seven year tribulation. They're going to be wiped out by God to be just good incredible devastation as God annihilates these armies as they invade Israel and Scorsese to be a great turning point in many ways and in the future and in the end times for a lot of different events but it's you. What we see today is really the set up for that and you really couldn't have a better set up to what we see today.

There was also a mention in the Bible of this rise of the Antichrist to get arising in time to make up a piece covenant with Israel during that time. This invasion will occur. I think is a sister living at peace but also know what the other thing nobody wants in the world. I want peace in the Middle East.

So all these ingredients are, coming in the place at the same time and converging but I think you lead me to believe this invasion could be not too far along on the horizon right now do you see anything in those particular chapters of Ezekiel that would indicate any sort of nuclear strike. I know that's difficult to look at old old passages of prophecy and see directs in a word, saying that, but do you see anything either in Ezekiel or some of the other prophetic passages in Daniel that would indicate that a Ron in many ways would be able to get off a nuclear strike on its enemies, Israel, or us will. It was a lot of passages in the Bible that people take to refer to nuclear weapons you like to know the in Revelation chapter 8 talks about, you know she's turning to blood and talks about were more of these different things.

Like you have the passage in Zechariah out that's a very good switch like devastation like nuclear weapon second Peter chapter 3. There's even even an end. Ezekiel 38 of these armies are destroyed. Some people would take up to be some kind of nuclear destruction, but really would actually be a Ron launching that would be them being on the receiving end of it, but when I read those passages in Scripture. I take those just to be divine judgment from God himself judgment that God is bringing about some man-made thing like a nuclear weapon, but there is a difference of opinion about that but there's nothing concrete. We could point to yoga say this is a prediction that Iran is going to use nuclear weapons or Russia or any other nation, at least not that I see in Scripture.

Going back to Daniel.

I had mentioned Daniel before and I know you address this in your book as well.

Daniel talks about the rise of the Persian Empire is you say while Babylon was still ruling he accurately saw the future fall of Persia to Greece. This occurred, what a couple hundred years after Daniel died, but do we see anything in Daniel that gives us additional information about Iran's possible role in the end times will not not really prescribe what we have. There is we have these ancient prophecies of Persia's rise to power the McKenna funeral go off the scene for a long period of time. Then we go over to him. Ezekiel and on your he's the one who really predicts this final great rise of over of Persia, or modern-day Iran and in the end times, truly the main passage I think it deals with arrived final Roger during the tribulation. Right now when we're looking at this time.

And you say will it's very likely that were in the build up to a do we have any idea or indication from Scripture on what needs to proceed. The events of Ezekiel 38 and 39 will like I mentioned earlier you. You have to have Israel in the land right and that's what we often call the regathering of Israel in 1948 in the continuing regathering.

We call that the super sign of the end times because you have to really have Israel in the land. For all these other prophecies to be fulfilled. And so we are back in 1948 when Israel was founded about 6% of the Jews in the world lived in Israel else.

Over 40% so there continuing to come back to their land, so that's that's the first thing the second thing is that Ms. will not only have to be regathered, but they have to be arrest because it shows it's going to happen. Ezekiel 38 twice what Israel is at rest and living securely, there also going to be very prosperous when this takes place which Israel is a very prosperous nation today so were waiting for. I think for the fulfillment of this is Israel to be arrest in living securely to get I think goes back to like a passage like Daniel 927, which speaks of the Antichrist's future world ruler making a peace treaty or covenant of peace with Israel for seven years and at the middle that we know it can be broken by the Antichrist.

That's why put this invasion somewhere in the first 3 1/2 years of the coming tribulation because we know they're gonna be at peace and rest temporarily during that time.

So again Israel is in the land of they are very prosperous. They're not at peace. Yet we see no presidential administration after administration Secretary of State after Secretary of State trying to hammer out some kind of a peace deal and forge this peace agreement. There is not too difficult to see that at some point in the future. Something like that's going to come and cut come to pass and be put in place for sure. Also people are looking at the times were living in right now and saying below. This is just out of the blue Heron were in the middle of this pandemic was never experienced anything like this before and as you mentioned in the book you had mentioned some of the end. Ezekiel 38.

The references to some of the nations that will come together in this battle against Israel. But America is not referenced in Scripture, and a lot of people have step noted that in several where is America going to be in the end times.

One of the possibilities you suggested for America not being mentioned is economic implosion by everybody can wrap their arms around that right now can't they sure you know what's going on right now. It's unparalleled course one of the things that we gonna run out of adjectives to word unprecedented nothing more times. I reverted them a lot. Some surreal strange weirdo menu to run out of ways to describe the normal one of the things it's unprecedented is that the spending of money since your true reverie. Every time you turn around, it just trillions and trillions of dollars of what is this going to do to the economy in the future not only the United States, with the whole world. Yes, and again you look at in the Bible it at like the third horseman of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse in Erie of runaway inflation of the base would gobble up any amount of money that any person can make so that you know we we see again. Kind of. The seeds of those things being planted and a lot of these things go together really warfare famine, you know economic implosion almost things really gonna go hand-in-hand. One of the problems is for America.

You get so far and you start using all your money to service the you can't. You can have a military term, and you become vulnerable. So many of these things really fit together and just of a massive economic implosion.

Our country is something that certainly could be part of maybe a scenario that reduces America from our superpower status and incentive cycle to watch that's coming to see everything kinda caving because we've been seen in the last, I would say especially in the last decade or even five years. Just this moral decadence just go off on steroids. It's it's insane. I still can't wrap my head around the Oberg fell decision marked this.

This is something that's were talking about the word unprecedented, which is been overused to a fault, that's unprecedented. I don't know how a nation can recover from that know you're right a menu when you've got really sanctioning of same-sex marriage in a country I'm 60 years old Old but you years ago.

No one even thought of was the farthest thing from anyone's mind to have that now being canonized as part of the law of our country. Also to just the abortion that we have in our nation is ongoing and really people it's almost with with many liberals today.

It's almost a race to see who can be the most brutal to see who can who can push the date pushed back in to birth and after birth, or whenever. So these kinds of things there.

There moral indicators by thinking Is going to judge our country there moral indicators that were already being judged. That's right, God is withdrawing his hand. It's in a better form of wrath by abandonment of the were saying. Romans wanted when you see these things happening as judgments coming at this is part of the judgment, the abandonment route for the direct wrath comes Vanessa.

That's a sobering thing for all of us to consider about this country that we love so much. That's totally right. Romans one is never more applicable than it is right now. I think that's what hope would you give Mark right now we we have the promises of God which are sure we have the promise of Jesus Christ and his offering of himself for our salvation.

How do you comfort Christians in this moment and how do you warn those who don't yet know Jesus Christ well you know I would like to say I read somewhere years ago. We have to remember is God's people would have another unoccupied throne of God on his throne. When you read the book of Revelation is ping-pong's back and forth from earth to heaven from earth to heaven we get the scenes in heaven. Throughout the book of God on his throne in heaven and save in the darkest times. That's the ultimate truth.

We have to remember heaven has unoccupied throne. I there's never any panic and have under just plans to turn it is never meeting an emergency session. He knows the future. He controls with Mark, so sorry Dr. Mark Hiscock, the name of the book so done with around wonderful book and somebody had a key market will be right back.

This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet met today and here's your host Joe last week a federal judge ruled that California governor Gavin Newsom had the right to ban churches in his state from opening during the pandemic lockdown in response to that lawsuit from a church in Lodi will now more Christians are standing up and saying we are going to reopen our church is an opening day they say will be Pentecost Sunday, May 31.

Now, yesterday you heard some of the great remarks that were recently made by Pastor Jim Franklin of cornerstone Church Fresno explaining why he and other pastors have joined together with advocates for faith in freedom and the national Center for Law and Public policy to oppose the governor's unconstitutional executive order. They have sent a letter to him and to the director for the California public health outlining their concerns and urging the governor to change that order before May 31 rolls around, so working to find out more about it now from Pastor Franklin and were cool.

Glad to have you here pastor thank you so much for joining us.

Yes what you still can't have in person worship services there in California. Does this all come down to the fact that you are considered to be nonessential. Is that what it boils down to basically the governor placed in the same category as boarding advanced movie theaters.

He put us in the same category as entertainment nonessential which we totally disagree with right now before he did.

That is, I understand that he did not sit down with churches and pastors and try to hash this out.

Is that correct that he really didn't seek input from churches before he did this, not that we are aware of all the indication we have is that we were just thrown into that group of the also stated that now since that time because churches have united and because they come together.

We have gotten the governor's attention meeting last week. His office was in contact with us wanting to know you know what was it that we wanted. That didn't happen until churches began to speak up. That's actually not tell us about who all is standing up because there have been various reports.

I know you've been involved. You did a press conference, but there are other churches, other pastors were standing up with you. Tell us a little bit about all of these Christians who are saying were organ open up our churches this is just unconstitutional or part of a organization church, United which represents over thousand churches and congregations across California, of all denominations of all sizes and there one day really helping. This faith and freedom.

As you mentioned earlier, our legal counsel, along with several others that are standing with a blind freedom set others that are standing with churches, small churches, a few people and large churches of 20+ thousands while that's great you don't one of the things that I think a lot of us thought at the very beginning was all right will will voluntarily cease having in person worship because we want to slow the spread for 15 days like everybody was being told what was the point at which you began to say we've been shut down long enough right at the beginning is nobody knew what was about to happen in the way good reports were coming down is that we needed to close down. Not for the sake of the government because of restriction, the government does from a safety standpoint we care about our people.

This seem like the thing to do now that more information is, how now that other businesses are beginning to open up our question is, is not that we will be treated differently. We just want to be treated fairly and of hundreds of people can gather under a look at a big box store. Why can't they not gather under our roof to worship God. We just we just want fairness, and right well I think you were the one who pointed out that Walmart is not a First Amendment protected institution anyway soaked churches not have more consideration if you think about it as our founding fathers recognized that First Amendment that government shall make no law they can't restrict and the courts are standing up for that. I know you mentioned what happened to the California courts, but I'm sure you're aware of what happened over the weekend there in Kentucky with the federal appellate court of the six district who stood against the governor of Kentucky and the governors offered no good reason for refusing to trust the congregants you promise to use care in worship just the same way that a trust account and slaughtered laundromat workers to do the same. Now the courts and the federal level are beginning to side without Department of Justice is siding with us you have a constitutional right to do it safe want that but that right can be taken away from us just Newsom ever outlined why he put churches in the nonessential category case he ever explained himself on making that decision know you have not any setting that I'm aware of and did a few moments ago.

It wasn't until churches began to United churches began to be vocal that we got his attention. And then he began to come to the table to say will I present a plan. We presented a plan to, and he's got a press conference that I think you he will announce something and were hoping that he will announce that were going to be engaged slime trees to ask you Pastor Franklin how your church is been affected by the shutdown, which is now been going on what 89 weeks what what is the situation for you as a pastor and for you know the people who attend your church and the people who have had to cease doing open in person ministry. During this time will record another literary work. It's the best of times and it's the worst of times. The best of times given us opportunity reach out to our community. We been involved in handing out food to literally hundreds of thousands of individuals over these last few weeks. Now here in our city. But in surrounding areas, and so we been able to minister 101. In those situations and so for that aspect. It's a good time our services online have grown now are reaching people, not merely in our community but we have somebody sound like a from Germany that was watching and in New Jersey and in other places so ministry impact is never stop it. It is increasing. The worst of times those of that people need each other.

They need that that support of one another face-to-face something you can watch a fire on the TV screen and all that looks nice and wonderful. There's nothing like standing in warming by that fire when it's real and I think that's why people are missing work to get over the cold 19 virus people or to recover from that. I believe it's a real thing. We take it seriously, but there are marriages that are hurting their people that are going into addictions.

There are lies that are being destroyed that if we don't do shopping and we think that's the mission of the church. If we don't do something, we may not get those people back to good points you think about what Scripture says about not forsaking the assembling together with one another in the book of Hebrews and there is a lot of practical ministry that you just can't do online in the same way.

Not to mention you can't have communion you can't do baptisms.

I mean, it comes down to really restricting worship. When you begin to extend that deadline really into an indefinite period of time. Isn't that basically what Gov. Newsom has said it's kind indefinite at the moment no indication of when that will be at first was going to happen until next year, possibly months away, but now that the church has arisen. Now that were standing up now back at all where he said well it could be it could be less than a month before we announce something so I think that's the important people standing up for their constitutional rights, and you can't you can't go against the government, you're breaking the law were supposed to honor the authority that we have on this country. We don't have a king. We have a Constitution. Our Constitution gives us certain rights and when the king or the governor or whoever it may be go against that we have the right in this country to challenge that and we have a long history in this country doing that and preachers doing that. That's what Dr. King did I when he stood for civil rights and so will we see our rights taken away from us that that have a an impact upon the people that we have committed our lives to serve. We have not only a right but as pastors. I believe we have a responsibility to stand up and declare that in the right attitude. I'm not angry with with the governor. I've never met the governor I don't know the governor personally. I know that his policies in this case are wrong and somebody must challenge absolutely what what you think is the downside of not challenging the order because there really are some Christians who look at Romans 13 and don't understand what you just said, which is absolutely correct that we don't have a king. We have a Constitution that they say well we just have to keep on obeying the government.

What are the negative consequences of taking that idea to its natural conclusion. I mean did, how long will we be shutdown if we don't push back a little bit, well, exactly, that I would once again to answer that the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. should address idly by and said well the law says we shouldn't challenge that will course not. In this case. If we give up the authority that the Constitution is given us as as worshipers as people who believe in freedom of religion. If we give that up. Then were we may not get it back. People often talk about the New Testament church as well. They met in houses. You don't need to meet together you don't know your history. The reason they met in houses when this church started in the book of acts was because the government was persecuting them and starting them as the state and find one that was released they started meeting together and then the gospel spread like wild. I love it were to take a short break will come back with pastor Jim Franklin from cornerstone church friends now discussing reopening churches in California stay with us will be right back on Jennifer to you in need of a healthcare program you're in line is a member of Liberty healthcare in your part of a community comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up throughout the year. With membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments. Grandma start as low as $199 per month and there is no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens.

Find out more by calling 855-565-2561 855-565-2561 or visit Liberty helped that's Liberty here's Dan Steiner, president of pre-born with an important update the covert, 19 virus is having a terrible impact for the most vulnerable among us, the unborn this past week, a woman sure she for being pregnant was so much going on in the world. The abortionist gave her an RU-486 pill to terminate her pregnancy are pre-born sinners there for her, however, reverse the abortion pill and saved her baby crisis line is flooded with women similar stories pre-born sinners are the alternative to Planned Parenthood, and this may through a challenge grant pre-born will be able to send $100,000 to clinics. If this goal is reached, and you can help, call 855402 baby that's 855-402-2229 one. Ultrasound is just $28 that this challenge will double your efforts to donate, just call 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229. All gifts are tax-deductible. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a pre-born banner to click and you're listening to just admit for today and now here's Janet. Welcome back. It is so encouraging to see so many churches in California now standing up and saying we will be reopening our churches, and we hope Gov. Gavin Newsom of California will resend his order and change it up so we don't have to defy this order that the governor has put out but just allow us to exercise our First Amendment liberties and that's what it's all about I'm chatting with pastor Jim Franklin cornerstone church Fresno. He and a number of other pastors have joined together with some other organizations to oppose this executive order that is really unconstitutional. Great point I wanted to return to this just for a moment. Pastor Franklin before we went to that break.

You had pointed out that people will discuss the early church in the book of acts and try to say deal about worshiping in houses. That's where the apostles did. And you pointed out what right because they were pain persecuted and eventually we did get buildings but beyond that, I thought, it's not an appropriate thing for people to say because we can't even get together in houses. In some states in this country because we have to social distance, so we were not even able to do with the apostles did in many cases were saying that I would dishonor a call with but with varsity that was a question that came up so you know what are the restrictions that you don't even know. I think you get to the to the state level, they're not even for sure we know at the national level. The disagreements, that is, was this savers that have not safe you wear a mask. Do you not wear a mask is 10 people, or is it 12 people and so in those types of people are unsure that that's where the Constitution steps in is that we can't limit people's rights got to give them that opportunity and someone tell me the other days as well. You know when people come back together church then there there but a hug each other and and they're going to violate the social distancing and everything I said why would you trust that person to go to Walmart or Costco or a big box store you'll trust them to go there and see their friends and their neighbors, but you're saying you can't trust them to come to church to do that because if you put in that that tag on it that is religious discrimination. Absolutely that's exactly right.

So talk a little bit about May 31. I know this is Pentecost Sunday that you guys have designated as the day you will reopen a little bit more about what you have planned and especially what you have planned. If the governor does not fix his order before then.

Are our ultimate goal is to keep people pastor. These are not customers that are coming to my church the people that I've said in hospital rooms with waiting for Dr. to come to give them good news or bad the people that I've married or their children. I've buried their relatives are upset with him and laughed and the joys of your life and I've cried with them in the tragic life. If anybody cares for the people who walk through my doors I is a pastor and dedicated my life have been here over 1/4 of a century I care about those people. I do not want to do anything that would in any way harmed them or put them at risk, but in the same sense I know I'm smart enough, the people at Walmart can figure this out I can figure this out how to keep people say so know it will be a mass service work will come back in as we did before we shut down lab social distancing Childcare at the very beginning, it will be a limited opening it will be scaled down will give people the opportunity to gather together in a building to be able to worship the Lord together to hear the word of God.

It is somewhat symbolic.

I recognize that, but I believe it offers hope to the people of God that the church, although it never has shut down now is worshiping together that we have to have multiple services to accomplish that we will do that.

So I believe it sends the proper message to the people, and especially to the public. During this time can be done. I'm here in Texas and we went in person church for the first time this past Sunday and it was so glorious to be back with God's people in person and sing praises and pray together and hear a sermon, it just is not the same and God bless the Internet but it's not the same so they can be done and there was social distancing and masks and sanitizing wipes, and all the rest, so we were fine and in any can be done and I'm wondering too if you're taking comfort a bit in the fact that there have been these other lawsuits filed in other states where these churches have prevailed deed, do you think that will ultimately work in your favor if it comes to legal action over this issue. Why they ultimately will go to the Supreme Court will be challenges that will always bear and I have confidence in the Supreme Court that were out here on the left coast. This court system. Here is a little bit different, so it may be, you know, some rough water at the very beginning of some of the courts and judges have decided here in California.

Once you leave the left coast you get back more to some common sense and these appellate courts as we saw there in the sixth Circuit Court and then to the Supreme Court. We feel very confident in the Constitution. One of the other things that the attorneys with whom you're working has pointed out, is the executive order violates the First Amendment because the order is not narrowly tailored to serve the county's interest in preventing the spread of coronavirus. Can you comment on that aspect of your objections well again governor set this out this is all presently never been here before, at least in our current history and so we cannot make it up as he goes. I believe the governor has the best interest for the people.

I believe he wants to care for people think it was a knee-jerk reaction, and he overstepped that wishing that with other governors and other officials would've said well I didn't take the Constitution into mind when I did that we just want to remind him. There is a higher authority and we gotta bring it back under that individual rights that are given to us by our by our Constitution is your congregation responding. I would imagine that there with you but what are you hearing from other Christians since you came forward with this announcement. All I'm I'm I'm the best thing since sliced bread that will himself both at the same time well and I think it's because of just the nature of the climate.

Sadly, that were in here that we all, everybody runs to opposite extremes and that is will you know he's endangering his people and other people you standing up for his rights. I think the real truth is right there in the middle. I want what is best for my people and I believe that not only their physical well-being, but I believe in their spiritual well-being.

I would be the pastor of a church and I believe that it is just as essential as them getting good physical food that they get good spiritual food and something happens when we come together that can only happen when we are there so yeah I would make some pastors you're saying while you're brushing it in that I think it's very important for pastors and for Christians out there at this time we support one another are decisions will be different people open at different times. If someone did open on the 31st. God bless them that every church is different. Every situation is different. I trust that pastor and trust that congregation. I think what we've got to do is stand together in unity and say yes, but we do believe the church should be open and we have a right to be open and then let individual congregations decide for themselves what is the best time to do this like smarts. Is there any sense that you have wheat we all know how 19 has been a very horrible thing for our country. Indeed, the whole world. We know that there has been a lot of deaths and we still know that the death rate is relatively statistically small compared to the number of people who are recovering. Is there a sense in which you look at this and say this is exactly the black plague perhaps were being too fearful, not your church but but society as a whole. The projections that were made at the very beginning and I think that's probably all had that quick reaction we got shut down. Gotta do something of how many people were going to die and our governor said that you not here in our state that number of people that would be impacted and affected by this and and end up getting it will those numbers.

Thank God did not come out to be true.

So now we we acted in caution at the beginning but now everyone recognizes there so much more information that is out there. We need to act upon that and make our judgments act upon the current information not only information that we had at the beginning of this will that's great I know. Also there is this declaration of essentiality of churches and you know, a kind of a movement of sorts to get pastors together. What about those who are listening who say I want to get involved in this movement I want to stand up. I'm in California and I want to be able to join together with you guys.

Well, our law firm has put together a great site and a great declaration of people can go there. They can see that document they can sign onto it if they like to be a part of it to declare that we are essential and not obvious you were looking for people here in California but I think it's something movement that could go nationwide excellence any dangers that you've heard of that you would have any sort of police pushback.

If you go ahead with your reopening of your church service on May 31 and Gov. Newsom did not change the order in time do you fear any sort of legal or even police consequences whatsoever, or are you are you kind of confident that they're not really going to arrest you or anything like that. Well I am not an attorney on display one on the radio aspect of it, but there is a possibility I was talking to Asher what happens if they do, and I think we have to we have to realize that is a possibility that that could happen. The likelihood of it. I think it's very very slim.

But the but the reality is, yes, you know that could happen to the governor puts in the Highway Patrol. We would have to be at the county is not going to enforce that the city is Artie said they're not going to do.

So it would have to be from the state very unlikely that that would happen finds and other repercussions. That's another story will see what happens but will be praying for you like about that website if you'd like to give your support, particularly if you are pastor or church member there in California. You can check it out. and will be praying for you.

Pastor Jim Franklin of cornerstone church present you so much for standing up for our rights as Christians under the Constitution. I really salute you for doing that and thank you for being with us and it was out to me to. God bless you. Thanks for being here. Thanks for joining us on jam efforts again will see you next

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