The Parental Anxiety Struggle is Real: David & Meg Robbins

What can be paralyzing when you're a young couple, and do we want to have kids or not? And we say, I need to be fully prepared now, or we need to start a five-year plan to get prepared, which, way to be well-meaning and intentional. At the same time, it's really, how are you bringing Jesus into current surrender in your own life?

That's what's preparing you the most. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Anne Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. So let's talk parenting today. Let's do. You know, we were talking about parenting, and parenting today. Let's do. You know, we wrote a book called No Perfect Parents, but we actually have two perfect parents. We do, don't we?

We have all the answers right here. Wow, guys, that's the worst setup of all time. Just gonna say that out loud.

And most incorrect. I hope people are watching the video, because your faces went boom. Like, that's not gonna happen. David and Meg Robbins, if you don't recognize their voice, that's who you're hearing.

And maybe, hopefully, watch it on YouTube right now. There you go. Welcome back to Family Life. Nice to meet you guys.

So it is interesting. We are at empty nest stage, as you know, and actually been there. A while.

Quite a while. And you guys are right in the thick of it with a senior ready to head off to college. Yeah. So we got two different perspectives on parenting, so I think this could be a really good discussion. And we're gonna talk about parent panic. Not that any of us ever panic as parents.

I mean, do you feel any panic even right now, or can you even talk about days where you did, or is it always constant? Yes. And yes. I mean, I probably feel that, I think, more than you. I mean, I'm a pretty steady person, which is funny, but I think when it comes to- Is she steady, David?

I was attracted to her because of this mysterious, stable security Meg has. Really? And does live out. Yet, one of the things that get wrapped around the axle is, you know, parenting. And when it does get challenging- Because it's not about me and my life as much as it is other people.

I can be really hard on myself or worried that I've missed things or, you know, just feeling a little panicky about things. I mean, panic is a strong word, so maybe I don't feel panicky. But there are nights that you stay up going, we're wounding our kids forever. That's true. Oh, absolutely true.

And you play the tape of panic. Let's be honest. I mean, the thing is that, you know, we were shaped by our parents, and my parents are awesome. But there are just things about growing up that shape you. Even things that were meant for good, where I fell in the lineup of being the youngest, you know? So I know that there are things that we are saying or doing that are impacting and shaping our kids.

Sometimes it's just really hard for me to let go of those things. Like, let it just be what God wants it to be and trust. You know, that's just a trust issue, ultimately.

Exactly. Well, I think what's happening now more and more in this younger generation coming up, they've watched their parents really struggle in their own marriages. I mean, think about half of marriages end up in divorce. As these kids are getting married and now they're about to have a family, they can get a little panicky too, wondering, like, should we even do this?

Should we have kids? Which causes them to wait. Yes.

They're having kids older now. And so I think that's a whole nother kind of panic. Right. That there's a large group of people that are struggling with this and they're asking a lot of questions about it.

Should we even have kids because I'm kind of messed up and my parents were messed up and do I want to mess up another generation? And it looks like culturally, our world is messed up. And so you can understand how that would create this panic in their hearts of having a family.

Right. Yeah, the fear really wells up. You know, we worked with 20-somethings in New York City. Did they feel this? We definitely saw some of this. We definitely, first of all, saw people waiting to get married. You know, there was no rush.

If you're dating someone you love to get married, you know, that's just a let's see how this goes and make sure. But then as a result, you know, you get access to so much information. Yes. And in a beautiful way, people are getting in touch with their stories and how they get shaped and the wounds that shaped them, they get passed on to the next generation. You know, like I think that's a uniqueness of this generation is that those things together really do bring some concern.

It can lead to fear and, you know, maybe for some panic. I don't know if there was hesitancy as much as the weightiness of when and should we. And there was a lot more to discern there other than, hey, let's jump in after two to five years.

You know, it's a different conversation. Yeah. And when you jumped in, again, how many years ago? 17 years ago. 17 years, right? Yeah. We'd had a miscarriage and then he was born five years into our marriage. Yeah. Our first was six years in.

Okay. And I felt, I wonder if you guys felt, completely unprepared. Part of it was I came from a broken home, never really had a dad, so I sort of had an idea of what a mom does. I really didn't know what a dad does. I remember I was so out of touch with even having little kids around. We went to your parents' house and aunt has brothers and sisters and there's all these kids and they're taking their little toddlers, I mean like one year old, two year old, and doing the little throwing them up and catching them. Right.

Do you remember this? Yes. So I want to like fit in and I've never held a kid. Oh my goodness.

Because I've never been around them. Yeah. And you're the youngest. And I grabbed Ted, I think it was.

Yeah. Her older brother's oldest son and I just sort of wanted to fit in so I take him and I throw him up and it hits the ceiling. Oh Dave. I mean I was just so, they all look at me like what are you doing? And I'm so embarrassed.

They're like, oh, I just fractured his head. Oh no. But I mean that's just a metaphor of how unprepared I felt.

Yeah. We then had a child. I remember looking at his crib, CJ, and literally praying to go, God, I have no idea what to do. I'm gonna mess this kid up. Help me.

Help me. So obviously your experience is a little different but did you feel unprepared? I mean in one way we both come from parents that really were loving households. Both parents were really involved. One of our biggest conflicts in marriage has been, our pre-marriage counselor told us this, the great thing for you and the really hard thing is you both have parents who really care and will be involved.

So holidays, that's gonna always be a challenge and it's been a beautiful challenge gift. Praise God, not everyone has that. On the other side, even with great models, because they both were great models, even with great models, I'd never changed a diaper. I had certainly never shaped a kid. I had never parented with someone else. That infant space for me, can we just fast forward to the nine month part where I can make them laugh? I had been around kids but nine months is when I started getting comfortable.

So yeah, I totally felt unprepared. I grew up babysitting. I mean I was the youngest but I did babysit a lot and I felt comfortable with some of those physical realities of babies being around but there's really nothing like the responsibility of raising a child. I mean it's really different when you're babysitting and you're there for a few hours than when you're completely responsible for this little tiny human and all the years ahead that come with it. So I think for sure that was exciting but overwhelming no matter, I mean even though we had great role models, it was still. And with our first, we jump into it and he has a chronic lung disease.

He can't gain weight for really six weeks until he got medicine. And some people are like, and that's why I'm not sure I wanna get into this. And you just go, okay, here's what's true. Century after century God designed this as one of the best gifts that you would tell your children and your children's children who God is and that your marriage would somehow be an imperfect yet beautiful reflection to the next generation of how God relates and it is imperfect and our kids are gonna have plenty to process with counselors someday. Yet that's part of how God designed it and he redeems the places. He's always gonna be faithful to point a perfect picture of a perfect father to the next generation. He'll redeem areas that are incomplete in the way I raise them. And century after century, decade after decade, year after year, God's faithful to keep pointing people to him and we're doing the best we can. It's not gonna be a perfect job yet I think the thrilling adventure of being part of we're not the main character in the story.

Jesus is. And we get to be a part of what he put into play of creating the next generation to live and to carry who he is forward and there's no guarantees in life and that's one of the hardest things about trusting him yet we get to participate in a small way of how he's been working generations before us. We get to participate in his redemption of our lineage but you go through the Bible and there was a lot of imperfect stuff happening and yet he's faithful to keep shaping and I think most of us would say, you know, Dave, you didn't have a dad in the picture and yet God redeems and you're thankful to be alive to pass something on to the next generation with your kids and your grandkids.

We're not in the grandkids phase but seeing you guys, Dave and Ann, relate to your grandkids is such a beautiful thing and you know, yes, it's overwhelming. It'll take more than it gives. But talk about the but part. What if you had never had- Exactly.

What you have now? How would you describe it to someone like, because it's hard to come up with words, isn't it? That's true. One of the biggest buts I would say is I would not be shaped in the image of Jesus, his number one thing that he has for us. He has used parenting probably more than anything else.

Yes. Marriage may compete in there. Probably parenting more than anything else to shape me more and more into the image of his likeness and to get the character and heart of God. And it takes you to the end of yourself but that's what trusting God is. But it's also the most beautiful, like I can't even imagine my life without them. You can't even express in words the love, the unconditional covenantal love that you have for a child.

The covenant part, we have a covenant with our spouse but it seems to be conditional. We have to work on that love. But our kids can mess up and we just love them unconditionally. That's really true.

It's miraculous. Yeah. Certainly there are hard things that come with parenting and investing in our kids and the fears or panicky things.

But I think that you're right. I mean, you just love them to the max all the time. And yes, do they sometimes drive us crazy?

Yes. But the things that we give up for them, the things that we do for them without even thinking about it, that's because that is how God made us to love them. And certainly there are times where I have to look to him and like David said, it has been the most transformational thing in my life without a doubt. Just coming to the end of myself over and over whether it's exhaustion in those early years where I have not slept in many nights and I don't know if I can make it another night. But I'm at the end of myself and God gives me the strength I need, not the night before. He gives it to me in that moment. Or in the teenage years when I don't know what to do in a certain situation and I'm just kind of at a loss and like, okay, Lord, I need your wisdom and discernment.

And he shows up so faithfully. Yeah, no matter what area of life it is, and we're talking about the potential of having kids, God gives you grace for this story he starts writing in your life. I think of a young couple out there who are discerning, just, all right, do we, Lord, do you want us to open this category up or not? He can write the story. Sometimes you may get to the point where you agree, we don't know if we're ready, but let's open up the process of allowing him to write the story. There's also couples I know are ready and maybe listen to this and struggling with infertility and just going, this isn't fair, I'm so ready. And he's writing that story too.

And it's a really tender place. We get to trust him for the grace tomorrow where that's a longing for a kid and you're struggling with infertility or let's see what God does. And if he gives us a kid, he will give us grace and wisdom and truth for that day, but not before. It's our lot that he gives us in that moment and he will be with us.

That's his promise. Well, let's talk about, so you decide to have children and God blesses you. And then you're like, and a lot of our listeners will relate to this, you want to raise them to be Christ followers.

I mean, more than Christ followers, fully devoted, sold out men and women of God when they're men and women. But they haven't had a model. Yeah, and so like me, I came in, I'm like, that's what I want. I've never seen it. Oh my God, I thought I can't do it.

I don't know exactly what that looks like. And I think a lot of our listeners are like, okay, I'm there. And you can get books and you watch videos and hopefully you're listening to Family Life every single day, three times a day. But how would you encourage a couple saying, okay, I want to pass on something that I didn't get or maybe I did get, but I still have the panic or the fear of I'm not sure how to pass this on. Take us into the Robbins family.

How'd you guys do this? You know, the very first thing that comes to my mind that we can go beyond this, it's just worth saying first. If you respond in faith and repentance often before Jesus with stuff you got going on in your own life, you're going to be a great model of a parent. People are caught more than they're taught and they're going to see a mom or a dad who just has a soft heart to Jesus and repents and then trust in faith for the next thing and knows how to trust God for things bigger than themselves.

That's, okay, you're ready. If you're cultivating that lifestyle now, that's a huge part of it. You go beyond modeling, absolutely, but it's an active relationship with Jesus, faith and repentance, faith and repentance, growing with Him, that goes a long way. Yeah, I just think of, especially in those little years, you know, you have kind of the freedom to set norms and habits and things in place. I'm sure we picked this up from other people around us, you know, and I was thinking about you, Dave, and like, I would love to know what did y'all, how did you learn, where did you turn to find what to do? Because the thing that comes to my mind is looking at people around you who are, for us, it was people who were a little bit ahead in parenting and like, okay, what are they doing with their kids?

And certainly when they're infants, but as they start, you know, walking and talking and I just remember starting that habit of just like every night, you know, we would read a Bible story, sing songs and pray together and that lasted for a long time and all the kids, they shared a room for a long time. That helped it be more of like a family thing and different stages look really different. There's sports and different things, people are different places, or we've had one child is six and a half years younger than everybody else. So there's a big age gap there. So he's going to bed before everyone else.

So that changes that dynamic a little bit too. There are times when I can feel like, oh, this has changed and this is kind of sad. I feel like we're dropping the ball that this isn't happening the same, but I think David, you've been really good about, sometimes it's just when they get older, it's more showing up in those conversations.

You know, I'm sure I've said this many times in conversations with you all about this, but one of our kids likes to come in at 11 or 1130 and process things at night, you know? And I'm like, I really wanted to turn the light off 30 minutes ago, but being available and what does it look like to listen? Sometimes it's just listening. Other times it's, okay, let's pray about that.

Or have you thought about, what do you think the Lord thinks? You know, just asking questions sometimes. Yeah, there's a lot of content help, like listening to Family Life Today. But I love where you started there, Meg. Looking to other people you trust around you that's a little step ahead.

Still in it. But the community that we have when I think about those early years, man, it was very simple. But getting pizza on a Friday night with a family that was one step ahead was a lifeline. And these little moments would carry us toward intentionality and towards survival, you know, in a beautiful way.

And I'm so grateful for the community we had. Because you're learning, you're watching them, like how they're interacting with one another, like the husband and wife. You're looking at how they're parenting and disciplining. I mean, sometimes all you need is like, how did you get your kid to sleep? I can't even just, all I need is my kid to go to sleep. Or will I ever sleep again?

Exactly. Please tell me that I will. And for someone to say, yeah, these days will be on. Yes, you're in the trenches. Doesn't it feel good?

You won't be there forever. That friendship and that's really discipleship. I feel like is critical. Well, it can be paralyzing when you're thinking about this if you're a young couple and do we want to have kids or not and all the ramifications of it. We play fast forward and we say, I need to be fully prepared now. Or we need to start a five-year plan to get prepared, which way to be well-meaning and intentional. At the same time, it's really, what are you doing in your own story and journey? How are you bringing Jesus into current surrender in your own life? That's what's preparing you the most. You're not going to ladder up all the content to be prepared for stages zero through two and two through five. And there's going to be help out there. Pursuing community, that's a big one.

Yet, okay, you don't want to be flippant about it. At the same time, you're walking with God, you're surrendering parts of your story. You can take this next step of faith. It'll be a beautiful step of faith if the Lord chooses to bless you. That's my word too, David. I feel like it's a theme of my life, is that surrender piece.

Every day, this matters before you have children and when your children are gone, that every day, like, Lord, I surrender everything to you today. I can't do without you. I need your guidance. I need your help.

Lead me, guide me. Just that simple prayer. What if a couple is, their marriage isn't that great right now? Maybe they're just struggling a little bit and they're thinking, should we? Like, my parents got divorced, you know, when they were 10 years in. Like, is that gonna happen to us? Should we even attempt to have children if we're struggling still?

That's a great question. It's sort of biographical because we were struggling, you know, and my parents were divorced, so should we? Dave, what would you say first? I think what you said earlier, or maybe both of you said it, God will give you grace in the moment.

He'll give you grace in the moment. We knew, and part of it was family life's teaching over our years in those days and still is that God wanted us to have kids. We believed it was God's plan for a Christian couple.

Like, let's multiply and fill the earth. So we knew that wasn't a question. We both agreed.

Let's do this. We don't know when. And then it was like, we're not ready. You said it earlier, you know, we're never ready.

You're never gonna be ready. And God gave us grace in the moment. Actually, our marriage survived.

It actually thrived. Even though we were yelling at each other at night and getting up in the middle of the night, changing diapers, it was all as hard as you could be. And like you said earlier, God developed our character in it. And God enabled us, two flawed human beings, to raise some pretty remarkable young men who married remarkable young women who now have remarkable grandkids. If you would look at our family tree on a piece of paper, you would say, this isn't gonna come out well. You know, but God steps in and says, but God, I'm gonna change the legacy. So that's my first thought is trust him. Which doesn't mean we still failed.

Our kids, you know, they've come to us and said, these are the things that have really hurt us. So it's not like it was a perfect picture. But yeah, but that makes them have to trust and hope in Jesus.

Exactly. And I think too, I try to, you know, when I'm thinking through things like this, major life decisions or little things, like I don't want fear to be the thing that keeps me from saying yes to the Lord. I'm like, okay, Joshua 1, 9, be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid. Because I'm with you wherever you go. And you said it a minute ago, Ann, it's like surrender, Lord, I don't want to say no to this because I'm afraid. I want to have faith that will say, I trust what you are calling us to. And yeah, having kids is the thing that has helped us work through a lot more of the stuff we needed to get to the bottom of in our own hearts and in our marriage.

I don't think we're gonna get to the point where we feel like, hey, we were really killing it. We've got this. And now we're ready. You know, so. You know, it's interesting you're talking about kids because Meg, you don't know this, but one of our sons said this, I think in a sermon or maybe in our family room because he's a preacher, but I'll never forget him say this. And I'm like, I'm learning from my son right now.

He said, every decision made in fear is a bad decision. Wow. It was just a simple thought. And I'm like, is there an exception to that? There's gotta be.

And it's like, I think there's no exception. Any decision made in fear is a bad decision, especially when you know there's a big God. There's a big God who's over all of it and we don't have to be afraid.

Amen. Make that decision not in fear and it'll be the right decision. You know, I think back to the couple you were saying in the question, Ann, about if we're not in a good place in our marriage, I will say, I have seen some couples say, let's have a kid and that will help us in our disconnection. Yeah. And I go, I don't know if that's the right approach.

That's not a good decision. But on the question, I go, all right, are you both seeking to forgive frequently? Are you both seeking outside help?

Are there healthy components, even if the dashboard's showing caution because you feel like it's a season that's hard, because sometimes there are hard seasons. But if you were actively taking those type of steps of, you know, there's confession in my life and pursuing the Lord. I may not feel really near to Him, and I'm pursuing Him. There's friends in my life that I'm not isolated. And yeah, we're getting counsel for some of the things we're walking through.

You know, that's a lot of real life stuff. And I don't think that's a reason to say no. Hold on having kids. Now, there would be certain situations, obviously, that if there is some real issues to work through first, then that's important.

And I would certainly never use kids in escape to stay together. Or any kind of abusive situations going on in your marriage. Absolutely. Face those things first. But if it is the, hey, we just feel kind of stuck and we're not at our best, are the rhythms in our life point toward that trajectory still of, we're pursuing Jesus still.

This is just a season. That's very different than there's abuse or anger is taking root in a way that's controlling our home. It's really important to differentiate those two.

Pulling back up, just getting to the balcony of the conversation here. I do think of Psalm 127. Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb, a reward. And it is a great reminder. Don't take counsel of your fears.

Kids are a gift. And yes, it'll stretch you. But that's part of trusting God. You get to be stretched from a place that will envelop you into God's love. And you will understand more about God's love for you because you end up being this extension of, I can't believe I love this little human so much, even when this little human's driving me crazy. And you get glimpses of who God is and his character and love toward you. God will often use the difficult things in our lives to help mold and shape us into someone who is more like Jesus. And like David just said, we get to be a physical extension of God's love and care to our kids by being moms and dads.

What a great way to not only care for other human beings, but get to know God more in the process. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to David N. Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on Family Life Today. You know, David and Wilson have written a book called No Perfect Parents. It's really a way to discover that you don't have to be perfect to be a parent. In fact, like whatever this perfect parent myth is should be eradicated because Dave and Ann give us some great biblical insight and they talk about their own experiences in this book. Also give practical advice and share real life stories that resonate really with every parent. And this book can really help you to understand that you need to ditch some of the expectations you have as being a parent, embrace reality, and discover how God can change your parenting. So you can get your copy of No Perfect Parents by David and Wilson by going online right now to familylifetoday.com or clicking on our link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call and request your copy. Our number is 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800 F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today.

And you know what? We're not perfect parents. We're also not perfect spouses.

And sometimes we need to be reminded of that and encouraged to be better spouses, to grow closer with our wife or husband and at the same time, grow closer with God. Well, the Family Life Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaway is exactly the place that you can do that. And right now, if you register by September 16th, you can get 50% off.

That's right, two registrations for the price of one. So you can find a location that suits you and a time that'll work well at familylifetoday.com and click on the Weekend to Remember banner. Now, coming up tomorrow, David and Meg are gonna be back with David and Wilson to talk about strategies and practical tips for managing stress during the back to school season. That's coming up tomorrow. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.