When Parenting = Anxiety: David & Meg Robbins

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So let's jump in together today. When they are avoiding you or something, they're withdrawing to their room unusually or any other way or escape. They are, they're getting really into something over the top or some new thing they're just getting consumed with.

That often can point to the fact that there's so much going on anxiety-wise turning beneath them that they're running to something that they can control somehow. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. So there's a lot of parents doing something this month that we don't have to do anymore. And these parents can be happy or sad or filled with anxiety because there's a lot going on.

Yeah. We're talking about getting their kids ready for school, whether it's toddlers or high schoolers or middle schoolers. Those days were stressful. Very stressful.

And I think we underestimate how stressful they are for the kids as well. Yeah. Well, we don't have to do it anymore, but we've got a couple in the studio that's literally doing this right now.

David and Meg Robbins are back. Fun to be here, guys. We love being at the table with y'all.

Have so much fun with you. So are you guys doing this? I mean, you've got three now in school and the fourth one is off to college. And one in college. I think the oldest starting freshman year in college may be the most back to school anxiety, you know, we've got at least. So, but yeah, the others. A whole new chapter, but yes, then we have one in elementary, two in high school.

Wow. One starting high school, ninth grade. And so that poses a lot of stress on the family, a lot of excitement, but it can be, do you think it can be stressful for the kids? I think so because our, the one that's starting high school, I mean, going into ninth grade, I mean, it's the same school that he's continuing in, but it'll be a big transition. You know, they even have meetings at school to help them think through, okay, you're starting your freshman year, you're on the path to what it might look like in four years if you go to college and you have to start thinking about things differently.

So I think, yeah, I think the pressure piles on. When I think about each one of our kids at all different ages, and this is true for any family, they all process something new like this so differently. So even your parenting approach has to be unique for each kid and you're at your own capacity barometer, you know, like you're off the charts getting supplies and whatnot, but each kid's going, okay, who am I sitting by?

And where am I sitting at lunch? And man, my class is totally different than last time or some pressure of not connecting with your teacher. Well, I have the same friends.

Well, I have different friends. How will they treat me if it's a new school? I'm thinking of Ford, your oldest being in college, right? Like finding a whole new everything. I mean, no matter how same it is, you know, a lot of our kids are back in the same school except for Ford, but transitions and staging, they're still new to it and new brings a lot of anxiety. You know, when, when we move, I feel like in our society, we actually don't do a lot of grief work moving from one city to another. Well, this is a micro move in these kids' lives where they are transitioning from something that they learn to know, got rooted in. Some of them are probably looking for a fresh start, but most are actually coming in with, yeah, I know some things, but this is a totally new day. And so there's grief that it's not the same and also excitement of what could be. However, in the midst of that is a lot of unknown and that unknown brings lots of anxiety. Yeah. That's interesting. There's a study done in 2023 about the reasons kids miss school.

Number one reason, guess what it is? Bad weather. That makes sense.

When you're in Michigan, we have snow days and you know, that kind of thing. 21%. Yeah.

Yeah. But number two, I don't know if it was as high when we were raising kids 20 some years ago as it is now, but it's anxiety. The kids are anxious and nervous and they literally feel it so strongly. They don't go to school. So you guys are parenting in this day and age. Is that real?

I think it is definitely real. I mean, we certainly see peers of our kids who miss school for those reasons. I think it's interesting because you also have kids at different stages developmentally. I mean, younger kids have a harder time vocalizing that and you have to, as a parent, learn how to see what are they really feeling, what's causing them to act this way or be fearful, those kinds of things. But then when you think of older kids, I mean, I don't know if the statistic, if it applies more to certain ages, but kids in middle and high school are certainly, I think they're feeling definitely a lot more anxiety seems to be happening than we experience. I think there's so many things we could probably pull out a whole list of things that contribute to that. Well, I have that list.

Oh, let's hear it. Yeah, I have that list and this is factors that had a negative impact on teens' mental health. 34% of teens are feeling stress related to finishing schoolwork and homework.

This is really good to lock into parents just to empathize and to realize these are the things your kids are feeling. 28% they felt anxiety over their grades and test results. 22% felt concerns about my physical appearance. 21% anxiety over societal issues and news. And then I'll just hit the last one at 20% concerns about how I'm perceived by others.

Wow. There's a lot of data out there that I think connects these dots and not to put it all on it, but especially older kids access to phones. I'm looking at the same stats here and none explicitly say phone, but how I physically appear, we know the connection to how people compare themselves, the performance orientation around test results and grades and getting into schools now, that's just ever present in your face if you're a high schooler. And then the social issues and perceived by others, that's the access and kind of inputs that kids get and how they write their own narratives about themselves based on comparing to some perfect version or sugarcoated version of what people present.

It's one of those key things that raises these areas I'm confident. I remember leading a group of high school girls in a small group. I was their mentor. I'm thinking, high school, this is the best. It's the most fun time of your life. Enjoy these days.

Oh man, I had no idea. First, I couldn't even get a scheduled night because they had so many activities on their calendar. They have so much pressure. And I remember sitting down one-on-one, they're trying to get in these big time colleges. And we have a lot of the people that go to the high school close to us.

It's a very academic school. And so they felt so much pressure. And now you're putting the stress of social pressure as you're saying, David, with phones and with social media, it's overwhelming for our kids. And so here we are as parents, help us, help us know how to help our kids. I go back to a morning with one of our kids where it's a bad morning, hard morning, processing a lot. There was part friends, part grades, and they just didn't want to face the day. And I remember pulling around, letting the other kids off, coming back, sitting in the parking lot and going, you know, we do hard things. This is what we do. Like we take steps of faith and this is hard. And it wasn't, the pep talk was not working. The thing went away the way it goes. And I was like, we do hard things.

And I was like, it's not happening, you know, like, and there was a cracking happening. And what I appreciate in some ways is I think the conversation around mental health today is helpful. I think 10 years ago I would have said, we do our things, go do it.

And we don't give this out often. But that day I was like, Lord, what do you want me to do? And I made the choice. All right, we're going to take an hour.

You get to miss first period. Let's go get a snack. All of a sudden getting a snack, looking at the windshield, sitting in a parking lot, you know, it just opened. This wave of just getting it out happened. And they had to still take some steps of courage to go that day, but there was a pressure relief valve. We prayed together out loud and then they went on their way and it was a decent day. It wasn't a perfect day, wasn't a great day, wasn't an awesome day.

It was a decent day. But sometimes we do have to enter in and meet people where they are. And I'm grateful for the fact that mental health is talked a lot about a lot more yet when it's the second biggest reason people are missing physical presence at school. That's where we do have an issue where we as parents do have to talk about it.

Yeah. How do you, as you know, you guys are right in it right now. How do you see the symptoms? What are the signs you guys see to know your kids are feeling anxious or even your kids friends? Cause it may not even be your own kids, but often in my generation we missed it because we were so driven in our own lives. It was almost like, Hey, you guys are good, right? And you expected them to be fine.

There weren't the pressures there were, but not like they are today. So a parent today has to be, you gotta have your antenna. You gotta be looking like, are there symptoms here of mental anxiety and nervousness that's jumping off and saying, I need attention. Like you, you got it, David.

I mean, you're sitting there going, I need to be present right now. Often we miss that. Yeah. Just as a side resource, I would say that David Thomas and Sissy Goff speaks so well to this topic.

You can go look at archives of family life today. We've had them on multiple times. Yes. And I know that David Thomas talks a lot about in boys, anger is a surface secondary emotion, but it's often, I mean, you kind of have to backtrack from what you're seeing. And I think that's kind of the key boys and girls. I mean, oftentimes what emotions come out or reactions over things that seem small and you kind of have to deal with those things in the moment and be patient and sit in it with your child.

But I think it's okay, where's this really coming from? And then later when it's not the heat of the moment and it's not, you know, the breakdown moment, maybe for girls, maybe it tends to be more emotions coming out the way you might expect, but it's asking questions about, you know, what are you really feeling? I mean, we have literally started trying to use like a feelings wheel, you know, with our kids, like pick out a couple of these that kind of let us know how you're feeling. So, you know, they roll their eye when we bring it out. And yet it leads them to being able to name something. One of the biggest problems is being able to name what you're actually feeling and anxious about. That's where you can start.

And a lot of times we don't have starting places because we can't name it. And Josh and Christy Straub also have a book that's geared more towards younger kids. And even Mac, I mean, he loves this book. It's about feelings and my feelings don't have to control me, but they're important. And there's even like a chart in the back of the book with like different facial expressions and kids are different and they do, they sniff that out. They don't really like it when we, you know, dig in deeper, but I think they also know it's important and it actually does help them in the long run learn to name their emotions. I think the two biggest strategies that kids do that you can have your antennas up for is avoidance and escape. When they are avoiding you or something, they were withdrawing to their room unusually or any other way or escape. They are, they're getting really into something over the top or some new thing they're just getting consumed with that often can point to the fact that there's so much going on anxiety wise, turning beneath them, that they're running to something that they can control somehow. That's just a discernment thing. You know your kid and the Holy Spirit can guide you and can let you see and prompt you to see, okay, where are my kids escaping or where are they avoiding?

What are they avoiding? It's interesting. Everything you just said applies to us too. Even anger and emotions.

For sure. And that's really where we started using the feelings wheel and use it more probably with ourselves. In our marriage and a stunned place. Yes, because I sometimes have a hard time myself saying this is how I'm feeling because I don't always recognize it.

I think too, when we went, Dave and I went to Daystar to interview Sissy Goff and David Thomas. It looks like a home. It's a yellow, really cute little home with a white picket fence. And when you walk into this home, that's a counseling center, there are so many kids. There's food everywhere.

There's a kitchen. There's a living room with games and toys. It feels like a home, but it also feels very normal because when kids are struggling, one of our sons said, yeah, oh yeah, we would take our kids in a second to get therapy because we're saying it, but it just helps to have another adult say it. And we had a granddaughter that was feeling sick every single morning before school. And so they picked up one of Sissy's workbooks that the mom and the daughter can go through. And I remember our granddaughter, my daughter-in-law told me this, the granddaughter said, how does she know what I'm feeling? And just to be able to verbalize, to see it in book form or on paper, and then to be able to talk about it, it's so good for our kids.

And one of our sons had ADD and was diagnosed in the second grade, but I remember he started chewing his fingernails, biting his nails constantly. And it was so stressful for him. And it's hard to know his parents, where do we go? How do we do this?

So I'm really glad we're having the conversation. We have another little grandchild that was dying. You guys probably remember when they start school and it's so hard. So this little grandson has a little heart on the palm of his hand that has been put there by his dad, but then his dad has one and the mom has one and the sister has one. And so they all connect hearts with the palm of their hand. They pray for each other and they're like, we're going to be together. And when we get back together, and so during the day he would just look at the palm of his hand, remembering my dad and mom are praying for me.

They're with me and I'll be back with them in a few hours. That gives me chills. I love that. You know, there's something around, especially for kids to get them out of their frontal cortex and grounding them and touching your leg or touching your palm like that. And you know, I've heard drawing a square where you breathe out and you can even add a verse to it where you're meditating on scripture of just slowing down a kid's, what they're intaking, because they're getting flooded with all these emotions that leads to this anxiety or overwhelmment or stress. And so you can breathe out with a simple prayer and a simple verse, or you can breathe in and then breathe out. But I'm like, man, what could it be like to breathe in on a part of that heart and then breathe out on another part and slow you down and you know, just simply say, you know, in this world we may have trouble, but in Jesus, he has overcome the world. And you know, being able to repeat that or any verse and be able to meditate on scripture as you slow down a kid's processing. I've heard of drawing a square on your leg, something kids talk about. You can do that, you know, and you're underneath, if you're overwhelmed in school, you can do that, you know, however, a heart that's pretty special. Well, one of the ways our kids get flooded, you just use that word is social media.

What's coming in, depending on how much access they have to it is nonstop. I remember even years ago coaching middle school boys in basketball. And I remember I was shocked when I said, Hey, today we're going to square manage, you guys go shirts, you guys go skins. And they looked at me like, that's not happening coach. I'm like, no, just, we don't have jerseys here. So you guys just go skin shirts, which we always did. And they literally would not take their shirts off because they were embarrassed of their bodies. And I had to understand, Oh my goodness, they see perfect bodies every day on these, on their phones and other kids their age, and they don't look that way.

So they're not going there. So what do you guys do? Take us into the Robbins home in terms of phones and that kind of thing with your teenagers and your younger kids.

How do you manage that as, as mom and dad? I first want to give a caveat that anything that we have done, one, we haven't done it perfectly. And two, it's been as the advice of some great partners that we've brought in here in studio, we've had to navigate it real time. And sometimes we go too far. Sometimes we haven't done enough, but yet, you know, people like access ministries, David Eaton that we've had in studio and, and many others, we could start giving a long list, but we have followed a lot of their advice. And now that we're getting older kids, I'm so grateful that we've heard some of their blunt advice. And now that the data is coming in, supporting it. Anyway, so here's what we've done. This won't be for everybody, but here's some of the things we've done. Yeah.

And I mean, also we're still in this in the thick of it still, you know, we're not, we haven't like arrived at the end and are saying, Oh, all these things work so well. And it's kind of an ever adjusting thing, but we held off on iPhones when our oldest was in middle school, we were living in New York city. And so he needed some way to contact us cause he was walking 20 blocks to school. So, but he had a flip phone. Every kid longs to be independent. He was loving it. It was great about the flip phone though.

We ended up copying that for multiple kids because they can communicate if they have to one with us as parents, that's really nice after practice, but with their friends now they're missing out on iMessage. Yup. And that's okay. Like you're going to be all right. You're going to miss out on things in life.

You're gonna be all right. And what I loved is they had to do though, you know, you have to click three times in order to get a letter. I'm like, yeah, you're clicking twice to get B.

Yes. And there are different options. You know, there's probably a lot better options now. I think because when our second child got the flip phone, we had to go and argue with the cell phone company to get them to take off the internet. You know, they were like, well, it's just on there.

I'm like, no, no, I know you can turn it off. And they did. And then our third, we actually didn't, he didn't have anything until eighth grade. The reason why, and that's because as I think someday you guys phone usage is going to be, and when there's surgeon general warnings going out about it, like social media at certain ages is going to be the equivalent of cigarettes and seatbelts for our day. And one of the reasons why for him is because he saw their basketball team, a few friends, they were in a certain grade, the grade older, a certain few friends got, got a phone and they detach, like they totally zoned in is what happened.

And so his group of younger graders that were on that same team kind of made a pact, like, let's wait until not only wait till eighth grade, like we're, we're making a pact to like not get dived in. We don't want phones is what they said for a while. And that softened over time. And I think everyone is seeing it. I think one of the things we've seen in all three of our kids who are old enough to have phones now, I mean, they're 14 and up. The longer we waited for something, the more they began to see it for what it really was. I feel like we waited on social media and yeah, we waited till 16 because of friends that have done the research that are solid resources like, uh, access. There's a lot of data out there about what kids brains at least wait till 16, which feels like an eternity in some context.

And are you kidding me? We have friends that the football team used Snapchat for their summer workouts and the coaches were like, that's how I'm going to, I'm going to meet him where they are. And this one family like, Nope, we're not doing it.

And he was the star quarterback and they found out a way to communicate. They were like, no, because they didn't want their son to have Snapchat. Well, there was just, there's too much research out there that at least wait till 16.

And then as you do that, how do this was your question and you know, how do you provide limits? We didn't say, okay, when you turn 16, you get a free for all pass to anything. You know, we kind of were like, okay, we're, we're going to stay open minded and keep seeking the Lord, but we know that we're probably going to stick with, we're not going to have a conversation about really going into social media until you're that age, just based on research and other wise people that we had seen. But I mean, honestly, so for our son, he got, you know, one social media app and after about four weeks he was like, this is not even worth my time.

So he ended up getting off of it. And I think it's because the longer you wait, you see other people interacting in that space and you see, I mean, I remember at one point he's like, my friends are spending like five hours sending pictures of their forehead to each other, you know, like that's what Snapchat had become. Waiting longer allows them to see some of the pain points too. I think our daughter has seen just how people can start to feel left out when they see their friends post places where they were or things like that. And they're just kind of like, yeah, do I want to be seeing that all the time? Talk to the parent who's saying my 12 year old daughter or 13 year old, however age, I can hardly stand the bombardment and pressure she's putting on me.

It's constant. And I think often for social media, a parent just caves like, I can't do this anymore. And then we've heard parents say, but I really regret it.

Right. How do you get that child to kind of lay off pressure on you? I mean, I would say keep having those conversations, keep listening and engaging the conversation with grace. But these are decisions that we have to make for our kids and their heart and what we're choosing to expose them to or not.

You know, we wouldn't allow them to go in certain places that would be dangerous for them in the physical world, allowing them into those places in the social media or the internet or the phone world. We have to recognize it's the same, even though our kids don't see it that way. And I think we have to remind ourselves of that. And then the other thing, I mean, the social dilemma is a documentary on Netflix.

We watched that with our kids. It impacted them pretty deeply. You know, I think they were like, wow, it's kind of hard to deny some of these realities. When you hear the person who created the like button on Facebook say that he's lobbying Congress now to put major limits, like this is not healthy for our kids. It was never intended to become something that would lead to depression and suicide. We got to get honest about this.

When you hear those people saying those kinds of things and that they don't let their kids use any of this stuff till 16 or even 18, it sinks in even for a 12 year old. I would say we've had to repeat the destination. The destination is I want you to have a phone.

You're going to, I want you to do it well. I make mistakes. I get down rabbit holes.

I get my dopamine hits. And this is one of the best places to become more like Jesus. It's one of the most visual moment by moment daily minute by minute thing we do is be connected to our phones.

So it's actually one of the most shaping things in discipleship for us, just let's own it as adults and for our kids, especially as they shape. And so it's like, Hey, I am all in for you having a phone and for you likely be, you know, being on social media, if that's what you choose to do, like I'm here for that journey, here's where our journey starts based on some of these realities. And for us, that meant eighth grade for an iPhone. And that was with limitations. Like we took Safari off. There's great. Apple has responded.

It's hard to do, but Apple has responded where you could set up some significant limitations and layer them, layer in access to Safari later, et cetera. And then social media until 16, there's just, the data's out there. They may not like it. And yet you're giving them the destination of, I want you to be like Jesus with everything you got and your phone's going to be part of your world.

It is. We're going to hear some more from Anne here in just a second with some practical application on what we've heard today. But first I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on Family Life Today. You know, Family Life Today is a donor supported ministry, and we want you to make your mark and be part of Family Life's mission of impacting lives through Christian teachings and family support. This is August officially, and our goal this month is to raise $250,000 in new funds by the end of this month in order to support Family Life's initiatives and reach our fiscal year end goal. You can make your mark by being a part of what we're doing. Link arms with us and be a part of the mission of reaching families and making every home a godly home. And when you do and make a donation of any amount, we're going to send you a Family Life pen along with a copy of Brant Hansen's Unoffendable.

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And thank you so much for being a part of this ministry. Okay, here's some practical application from Anne on what we've heard today. I'm just thinking of parents listening to this.

I'm thinking of moms listening. Share this with your friends. And I love this picture of getting together with a couple friends, maybe four friends, and being committed to praying for your kids. I had that with my friends where we just send out prayer requests beginning of the year, all through the year, because we don't need to do it alone. God is with us, but man, to have some friends that are partnering with us, that helps too. This has been great.

Yeah, it's been great. And I tell you, one image I can't get out of my mind that I would love parents to have in their mind, of all the things we talked about today, if your kid is anxious, sit in the car, skip first period. Not every day. Not every day.

We do hard things. But, I mean, to be present in that scary moment for them, it will pass, but they need a parent that's there. Not giving all the answers, just saying, let's take a deep breath.

And I'm with you. And decompress. That's what God does, and I think that'd be a great moment for you as a parent. Maybe just live in that moment with your child. Now coming up tomorrow, we're in back to school season, and David and Meg Robbins are going to be back with some practical tips for managing stress and trusting God in this season where our kids head back to school. That's coming up tomorrow. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.