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Yeah, so jump in today. You can go to familylifetoday.com. You'll find all the info there, and I hope you join with us. If there's one place I never really want to be invited to go with God, guess where that is? Somewhere desolate.
A valley, a desert, a storm. Avoid at all costs. Don't you? And I actually thoughtâ€” We all do. I know, but I thought when I signed up to follow Jesus, I thought that was part of the plan is if you follow Jesus, that's removed from your life. Did you not think that? Kind of. I don't think Iâ€” Everything goes better with Jesus type deal.
I don't think I ever thought through that. But when you read Scripture, man, people were suffering. They're in pain. They're in jail. But not me. That's for them. You didn't want to be.
Right. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.
You can find us at familylifetoday.com or on the Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. I'm glad it grows their faith. I grow my faith the easier way.
You know, it doesn't work that way. But that concept of God invites us to the desert. Lina is back with us to talk about that.
You've used that phrase that actually God invites us to the desert, and you hear her over there. She's just ready to jump in on this, but welcome back. Hey, thanks for having me. Lina Abu-Jamra, tell us about what you do. Let's get into that, because you do a lot of different things. Yeah, so I pay the bills by being a doctor. So now, the context that I practice now is through telehealth. So I work for a company online, and I transitioned into that from the pediatric ER.
That's my training for 16 years. I worked in the pediatric ER, and the reason I left was because our work in Lebanon had grown. So I was doing two careers, basically, bivocational. I did the medical work, but then I also started this ministry called Living with Power, and the ministry was basically a Bible discipleship ministry. So I wrote books, podcasts, did stuff that you see a lot of people in ministry do today. And then when I left the megachurch, it sort of created this sort of empty space in the ministry where I wasn't sure what would happen. I always thought ministry was two women's ministry in a local church, and so I didn't really imagine a world where I could do anything for God outside of that. And even then, I felt like the writing and the speaking was so related to the local church that now I wouldn't even have that. And so in that space, because I finally went up for air, so to speak, which is what the gift of the desert does.
It allows you a minute to stop. And I remember in that season, sort of asking the question, maybe I was whispering it, maybe it was just a thought that God heard, but it was basically the question of, what do you want me to do now then? If you close that door for the church and it's all going apart, what now? And in that was the invitation in a number of different things that happened to go to the Middle East, to my home country, which I never wanted to go back to. I am as American as they come. I mean, I'm still single, I live in a big city, I fend for myself, I'm a bit abrasive, whatever you want to call it.
I like the American way in every way. And he invited me to go back and I remember my mom thinking I was crazy and nobody wanted me to go back. It was the time when my dad had just passed away. He had had complications. And so I don't know what he would have thought.
I think he would have been proud in hindsight. I've done a lot of work in a country that is our home country and that he loves deeply. But still, I started going back and doing medical trips. And the more I did there, things took on life. So we went from doing four trips a year, which I partnered with a dentist from Grand Rapids, not far from where you guys are from, and his wife. And we started going there and they are dear friends of mine. They had done enough work in this context to advise to keep going back. So we had right away committed to doing four trips a year, but that easily, because I speak the Lebanese language, I'm Lebanese.
So I had the cultural factor, the language. The church quickly started asking me to step into some other things that I gladly was willing to do. And so the Lord really created this ministry.
Sort of our ministry is both evangelism and discipleship. But now we do a lot of global work related to people in utmost need. And so for us, it was the Syrian refugees.
Since then, the Lebanese have gone through their own crisis. So we're helping both. We've got your long clinics. Just the work grew, to say the least.
And it's all online if anyone's interested. Since then, we're now helping the Ukrainian refugees through also a God-given connection that we have there. And so in that, I could no longer honestly schedule myself in all these places. So I had to find another plan for work. And the Lord honestly just gave me this gift of telehealth. So what started as a moonlighting way to pay for my plane tickets to go to the Middle East, because I was still self-supporting. We didn't have a donor base at the time.
You know, it was all like just fresh and new. And the last thing I ever, I told God from day one, I would never want to raise funds for anything. Like I was like, kill me before you do that. And now it's like a heart of our ministry to raise donor funds for Lebanon. But I won't work for the ministry. Like I want to support myself in ministry for a number of reasons.
Some maybe are okay, and some are probably just me being weird. But nonetheless, I have just been very blessed by the Lord to be able to support myself in my own work, but then to also grow this ministry. And so I basically left the ER to do telehealth full-time.
And this was pre-COVID, so everyone thought it was crazy. But honestly, I could see it. Like I saw where it was going. And it has been the biggest gift of my life. So I work for myself all the time.
Anytime I can just decide when, which makes it very doable when I'm overseas. And then I still have got, by God's grace, continued to write and podcasts and all the things. And, you know, COVID put a dent in the travel schedule.
It's coming back to life now. But honestly, like I've changed so much in what I appreciate about ministry and something has shifted. Even to say it sounds so trite almost, like I find my relationship with Christ to take precedence right now over anything else that I do.
And I don't know that I would have said otherwise before, but I think there were a lot of conditions. And so I do all these things now. And it's been a gift to continue to be able to do the things I love. Honestly, I love being busy for God. I love the work we're doing in the Syrian refugee homes. It's incredible. And one of the things you've done recently is you've written a lot of different books, but you've also written a new Bible study.
Yeah. You know, this is my first real Bible. I've done a lot of Bible studies that we've self-produced and we've had online and through different, you know, when I've taught the women's ministry and such. But this is our first publisher-backed book, which makes it a lot prettier, more organized. It's just as pretty. It's really, the cover's amazing. We love it. And it's called Through the Desert, a Study on God's Faithfulness. And the concept, this is with David C. Cook, which has been a very, you know, nice publishing house that has done incredible studies for a lot of people in the past. But we have two.
There's another one coming in a year and I hope more so I have it. So the idea is to follow God's footsteps through scripture in a variety of different places. So mapping the footsteps of God through different places. So this one is through the desert. The next one is a table in the wilderness, meals that God has.
There's some that are going to be in the pits or in the prisons. So different themes in scripture. David, it sounds like the exact thing you don't want to read. Is that what you're saying? Well, no, I think I need to read it.
It's going to give you a perspective that we need. So this one is Through the Desert. And so you're right. So I grew up in a home that valued the beach. My mom never met a cactus she liked. Like, she just does not care for the desert. Like, we've never gone out west.
I don't know. My parents vacationed by beach. We grew up in the Mediterranean. It's sand. I don't know why. So I never got to go to a desert until well into my 30s.
I think my first time to Phoenix was in my mid 30s to late 30s. And I adore it. Like, I love it. I love it.
I'm not comparing beach, and there's apples and oranges. But I love hiking in the desert. I love the heat of this. I love the cactus, the scenery, the space.
I love everything about it. My mom thinks she adopted me. I don't think she believes that. She switched to us in the nursery.
But I really love it. And I have found so many spiritual lessons in the desert. Well, it turns out that God loves the desert, too, because you're right. You cannot get past a few pages of scripture before you see the invitation of God for his people to the desert. Genesis chapter 12.
You could argue earlier. Genesis chapter 3 after Eden. You could argue that though he put him out, it was a gift to put him in the desert after. You put him outside of Eden, maybe not a desert, but the point is outside of the garden. And you could argue it was a gift of grace because it kept them from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would then give them eternal life on the other side of God.
And so this was a gift. But really, Genesis 12 is a very, like, if you're not sure before you read Genesis 12 and you, I mean, first get the study because I'll explain it to you. But basically, the call to Abraham is a call to trust God in the desert. He literally invites him.
You follow the map, you go to the area, to the desert. And he doesn't really tell him where. Have you guys either of you had God call you into an area or call you to do something that you were like, wait, what?
Yeah. You have. We're in Lebanon. I never, I mean, it was like, really, like, I remember when I first went, the context wasn't even refugees. My first, you know, foray into Lebanon was, first of all, I had a lady who used to be my small group leader at the church that I left who had challenged me and said, well, hey, have you ever thought about doing a podcast in Arabic right when I was leaving the church? And I thought she was, like, trying to be nice to me. Like, now that you're not at the church, you need to do something with your time.
And I was like, she meant one, I think just because it would be cool. I took it as, oh, I should do a podcast in Arabic. I grew up in an American church by American pastors. I've always read the Bible in English, prayed in English, memorized verses in English, though I'm Lebanese. And if you know the language, it's very different. Lebanese and spoken versus the proper Arabic of reading and writing and orating. And so the idea is ridiculous even now that I would get online and do some public podcasts in Arabic.
They were surprisingly good. But I mean, I'm fluent in Arabic. So that's where you were like, wait, you called me to do this? I wasn't even going to do Syrian refugee work because I was already doing medical mission trips where I could. And I did not want to raise a dollar for God ever.
I was a doctor. I can make money. I mean, I'll go work and put money to missions, but I am not humbling myself and ask people to give for anything. I just felt like that's too much, God. Like, we're Lebanese. We don't ask for anything.
If we're going to a restaurant, you better believe I'm going to arm wrestle you and win and pay every single time. But it's our culture. And so it just felt like you can't ask that, God. But I went to Lebanon on a vision trip not to do refugee work because I'm too thick-headed to see what's in front of me. And I still was intent on teaching the Bible in the way that I thought was acceptable. I went to a seminary where I had a guy who knew my brother-in-law and he headed the seminary. I thought, OK, well, God doesn't want me to be a Bible teacher in the U.S. since I left the church and they didn't ask me to come back. And, you know, it's all falling apart, you know, all the stuff that I thought, well, I'll go to Lebanon. They must want us to do something there. And so I sat in front of this seminary head thinking, they're going to eat me up.
I have two books that have been published, like Lebanese, like the U.S. I'm a dog. Like, what's not to love? And he, I could tell from the minute I opened my mouth, like, can you read, like, body language? It was clear, like, I was not on his agenda for the next 30 years. And so I quickly gathered myself and without, you know, stumbling any further in that conversation and on a whim because of another God thing.
I mean, how God works. A month before I had been invited to go to Jordan, it was my first time seeing the refugee life. Somebody had tried to set me up with a book publisher that never amounted to anything. But because of that connection, I had heard a bit about the Lebanese and the Arabic publishing world.
And so in an effort to save that meeting, I asked him if he knew any publishers in this area. Honestly, it was purely out of self-preservation for my pride because I was like, they don't want me here. God doesn't want me anywhere.
What is my purpose in this life? And the guy points outside his window and says, you see that window over there? He goes, that is the house of the biggest publishing house in the Middle East. So I leave that. He calls up, finds the lady there. I leave that meeting to go there. I don't give him the books that I brought to show him.
I give them to her. The next morning she called and she says, we want to translate your Thrive Singles book into Arabic. Part of that deal was that I would have to pay a certain amount of money to get it published because they don't have funds there. Now I had my first fundraising problem, but I had a board that thought that that was the direction we should go. And we were able to do that. And at the end of the year, they wanted me to come to a conference there in Arabic.
Do you see? Okay, why am I going through this story in such detail? Because A, I was in a wilderness that God had invited me to in hindsight.
B, I did not want to be there and I never could have planned the story. I was just looking for the oasis in the wilderness and God was leading me there. But it took these steps. Now, because I had done the podcast in Arabic, I wasn't utterly repudiating the idea of doing a conference because I'd practiced.
Now I go to do the conference and that's a year later. Now that's when I go meet the Syrian refugee area, the pastor that was working and I had found our place. And so now we started doing the work and here, so you go, did you ever in your entire world think that 10 years later we started this and our work has grown exponentially. This year, just this month, we're launching the Lebanese Office for Living with Power. And that woman who was the publisher at that publishing house that I gave the books and wanted in Arabic, she's our executive director of Lebanon. Oh, that's cool.
Really? What about you? I want to hear, what do you feel like God's called you?
What's been your desert? I'm sitting in it. That's what I thought. I mean, not that it's bad, but when he called us to host Family Life Today, I thought, are you kidding me? This is not what I do. I've never done this.
I'm not equipped or prepared to do this. It felt like, why are we going out here? And here we are. It's a dream come true. I mean, it's amazing. But that was the first thing that came to my mind.
There's been a lot of them, but that's one. What about you? The first thing that came to my mind was my marriage.
I'm your desert. It's a good thing God calls you to it and wants you in it. That's awesome. No, I think as a young woman, I had a dream of what my marriage would look like. And I felt like God called us together.
I had no doubt that he was asking us to follow him together. But I also felt like I was the loneliest, after we'd been married a while, the loneliest, the saddest, and the most disillusioned I had ever been. And it made me fall on my face before God and say, God, I'm so disappointed. I thought we were going to change the world together.
And now I really don't like him very much, and I don't want to do very much with him. And yet in our brokenness, when we called out to God in our desert, that was a desert for both of us. Oh, yeah. And when we called out, I felt like he was saying, I'm right here.
I'm right here. And not only am I here, but in the future, I will use that to help other people that are in the desert of marriage. Yeah, in fact, your desert will be your ministry.
Yes. Which I think a lot of people find that. It's like in our pain, we find our purpose.
Well, there's no question. And I mean, I think to tie up some of the ideas, I mean, that's exactly what deconstruction feels like, right? It's a dark night of the soul that's been compared to it.
It's really a desert space. And I think what you end up, you know, hating becomes the place where God shows up the most. And so this study through the desert, I did not write it thinking, oh, I just published a book. In fact, Fracture of Faith hadn't been published yet by the time we put together the ideas for, you know, the cycles with publishing are two years ahead of time. So you start the idea, then you write, then it comes out. And so I couldn't have planned it that good to plan a study on why and how God uses the desert right after writing a book about the desert of deconstruction, right? And all, I mean, any pastor listening to this probably loves it because it's all alliterated. Your pain has purpose and the desert of deconstruction leads to your destiny of divine work.
So I'm pushing it now. But anyway, the point of it is the study, what's cool about it. So it's six different pit stops of desert places. I think it gives you a glimpse and it starts from Genesis to Revelation. Obviously, there's a lot of books in the Bible, but they're very big pit stops. But they have a thread of story about God and how our story weaves into that. So we think our story is about me, but really we're part of God's bigger story.
And I know we hear that a lot. I mean, it's, I've heard that I'm a woman's ministry director for some years, so I've heard every theme. So I've heard that his story, you know, history is his story and all these, you know, Francis Chan's sermon of the yellow rope and YouTube video that's done so many hits. But still you want to matter, you know, but you do, but you're somehow part of his bigger story. And I think when you sort of can see how much God values us to make us part of his story, but really scripture is not a story about me. It's a story about him and him loving us or deeming us. And so we go through this six week Bible study and you stop at these pit stops and they go from like Genesis where, you know, he's inviting Abraham to the owners.
Then you move into the people of Israel. Of course, they're like the epitome of bad wilderness. And, you know, in one week we talk about that and we go through Exodus and then we land into Jeremiah, where despite the fact that they are bad upon bad upon bad, God still in Jeremiah invites them into this new covenant and tells them Jeremiah 31 is an awesome chapter. That's that week where I talk about, you know, God says, you know, basically he finds us in the wilderness and how much he loves us. And you're like, wait, they didn't deserve to be loved.
They've done everything bad. And yet here's God still crying out for them. Now you jump into the New Testament and ironically, again, you might say, well, the desert is an Old Testament thing, not a New Testament thing.
Well, guess what? John the Baptist, isn't there ministries in the desert? And it's not an, it's not like an exception to rule. It's symbolic of so many things. And so I talk a lot in that teaching on how John the Baptist's place in the desert, why it was so meaningful and why that is a place that wakes us up to our need for repentance and change.
Which desert pit stop was your favorite or the one that marked you, that you thought was? Well, and the last one is Jesus and the victory. And actually, I would say probably Jeremiah 31 was very instrumental for me. And I'd probably say, so, so it's some fair question because I kind of, one of the beauties of picking six teachings when you're the teacher is that you can pick the ones you like the most. So I have been deeply ministered to by the life of John the Baptist and primarily and deeply because in some ways everything went wrong for him.
Right? He goes to the wilderness. He's very popular for a while until Jesus comes on the scene and then he's a behind the scenes guy and he lovingly embraces it.
Well, then he gets thrown in jail. And the most painful chapter in the New Testament, but the most hope giving to me is that chapter where his disciples, John the Baptist, go to Jesus and say, are you the one or do we wait for another? And the answer that Jesus gives is more healings, more miracles. Tell John what you've seen. And meanwhile, guess what happens to John?
His head gets chopped off. And so I think that story has probably ministered to me the deepest in scripture in terms of understanding like when bad things happen, it's not a punishment. There's a bigger story. And then he says to them, there's no greater profit than John the Baptist. Like he gets it. And yet he didn't get it for a minute.
And he still was. It's just the paradox of that is crazy to me. And then Jeremiah 31, why I love it. So the story is John the Baptist, but the verses of Jeremiah 31 are probably some of the most life giving verses in scripture. And it's really about this idea that God allures us, allows us, leads us to the wilderness, but then dumps his love on us in a way that makes no sense because all we do in the wilderness is everything we're not supposed to do.
And yet here he is calling to us and inviting us into a new covenant where he's in us and with us forever and ever. What do you hope as people go through this study, what do you hope that they'll discover at the end of it? Freedom, I would say honestly, the freedom of knowing how deeply you're loved by God, because it really is, it's a freedom. There's a freedom in it that comes from peace. There's a joy that allows you to live freely, that comes from truly understanding that the point of our life. And I think I have to remind myself that I've found even as soon as this morning in my quiet time, I am trying so hard to build a life. I catch myself. I mean, I see myself trying to build a life that is desert free, that is comfortable, that can endure resilience. The stock market drops, no big.
I've paid everything off. The dating doesn't, it's okay. Like everything, I've had every box scratched off to build a life that really in essence doesn't need God. And the aha moment this morning I had, I was like, when you kind of ask questions like, what is it that worries me?
And why is it that I'm worried? And what is it that I'm trying to accomplish? And we start to follow that thread of thinking and realize at the end of the day, I'm trying to build a life, whether I'm realizing it or not, that doesn't need God. And I think when you truly see that the desert isn't, the goal of the Christian life is not to get out of the desert. That's what we've made the goal of the Christian life. That's why a lot of Christians, when things get bad, you go, God, why don't you just take my life?
And we think we're holy in saying that because we go, at least then I'll be with you. But that's not Christianity. Right?
It sounds like American Christianity. That is it. Yeah. I was thinking about when Dave was interviewing some men in Afghanistan who were basically spreading the gospel and their lives were at stake every single day. That's it. They were living for Jesus, spreading his word, and pain and suffering, of course.
It's just a part. Yeah, they didn't even, they didn't blame. They're not asking to be killed, right? I mean, you look at these people who are dying for the faith or in prison. They're not saying, okay, I give up, kill me because I'm going to be with Jesus. No, they see the value of shining in Christ in the middle of the desert. They're like, desert? Of course I'm going to live in the desert because Jesus is in the desert and he's in the good place.
Of course, I'm going to bring people with me and share the gospel. That's freedom. That's freedom.
They're not afraid to die. They were free and I think I interviewed 10 and 8 were killed that year just for taking the gospel into the Afghan mountains. This is, to me, like, there's such a picture of like how God works. One of my favorite authors over the years has been Oswald Chambers.
I read his devotional all the time. Okay, this guy was American. He goes to be a missionary.
Fine. All this, like, what happens to him? He dies of a burst appendix at what, like 29 or 39?
Very young age. He hadn't even written a thing except his journal. The book that we read every day, Man Was First and Highest, is a compilation of his journal entries that his wife wrote after he died of a burst appendix. There's nothing like remotely like, oh, I'm in North Korea dying for the faith. Like, this guy is literally like, yeah, he's serving God, but he dies of a thing that in this day and age would be like, really? Like, no one should die of a burst appendix. And yet that's how he dies.
And at that point, you could look and say, what a waste. You could say it about many others. David Brainerd, others. But Man Was First author Oswald Chambers ends up having a book to his name that has sold more books than any of us will ever sell and not for anything he's necessarily done. And so this to me is a picture of how God works. He makes us part of his story. It's not about us. It's about him.
And it's bigger and awesomer. And I don't even think Oswald Chambers could care less anyway. I don't think he cared less before. I mean, if you read his writings, he didn't care less before.
He doesn't care now. But look at what God has done. To me, that is freedom of understanding that things aren't always going to turn out like we want them to. And the desert may or may not end.
It might for many people, but it might not. But he's with us in the desert. And he's shaping us. And what we're looking for is an acute awareness of God's presence with us here and now, no matter what happens tomorrow. I think all of us as believers desire for a renewed sense of purpose in our Christian walk.
We long for freedom from the feelings of failure and regret. And I think all of us really want a greater sense of trust in God. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with Lina Abu-Jamra on Family Life Today. Lina has written a book called Through the Desert, a Study on God's Faithfulness. You can pick up a copy by heading over to familylifetoday.com to learn more about how we can gain that renewed sense of purpose, how we can have a greater sense of trust in God.
Lina will unpack that for you in her resource. Again, you can head over to familylifetoday.com and find your copy there. Well, today is the last day in May, and that means it's the last day of our matching opportunity to partner with Family Life. Now, what does it mean to be a partner with this ministry? Well, David Robbins, the president of Family Life, wants to fill you in on what that looks like and how you can be a part of it. Hey there, this is David Robbins, president of Family Life, and it means so much to me when we get to hear from our listeners. And I just want to thank those of you who engage with us and tell us how you're being encouraged or how we can help you more. We recently heard from a listener who shared with us, I've been a listener for years and the guest topics and conversations are always informative and life-giving. Even the topics that I don't think are pertinent to me provide a springboard for my words of encouragement to my circle of friends, family, church members and leaders.
And then she says this, which is my favorite part. I start a lot of conversations with they were talking about blank on Family Life today, and it ends up starting such amazing conversations with my neighbors and my friends. You guys, this is our heart.
This is what we're about. We want to bring to you grace and truth found in God's word that helps you in your own walk with God, helps you in your home. And then from that place of you being filled up and experiencing Jesus, that you get to go be a light and reflect Jesus to the people around you in whatever small way we can play.
And you saying, you know what, on Family Life today, they were talking about this and and it becomes something you pass on to a friend and you get to talk about it together. There is nothing more we rejoice in than that type of life on life about the gospel happening. Our mission statement says just that we want to effectively develop Godly families who change the world one home at a time.
And so many of you are people who are changing your corner of the world, living for Jesus right where God has you. One of the other ways you can impact the world for Christ is by becoming a family life partner. These are people that just join in monthly at any capacity and give month after month to family life and allows a ministry like Family Life today to keep being a daily resource to people, giving them the biblical help that they need. And this month, we have an incredible opportunity because there have been some generous partners of family life that have come together and said we will double the contributions for an entire year of anyone who joins as a monthly family life partner. And we want to invite you to do that. We are in need of more partners and there are some incredible benefits that you'll hear about soon if you become a family life partner. We are so grateful to get to journey with you and your family and the ways God is using you and your community.
Yes. And as David talked about, when you become a family life partner, you will receive exclusive benefits. So let me go ahead and highlight a few of those benefits for you. When you partner with this, you're going to get a gift card to attend a weekend to remember marriage getaway. You're also going to get live family life events with some of our talented authors, radio and podcast hosts and many celebrity guests. In addition, you're going to have access to our brand new curated library of content that includes resources for some of life's most important issues. And that library was collected by some of the best minds here at Family Life. Those are just a few of the benefits you'll receive as a family life partner as we come alongside you and equip marriages, parents and families to impact our culture for Christ. So you can go online to familylifetoday.com or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329.
Again, the number is 800 F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. Now, tomorrow, David and Wilson are going to be joined by a friend of mine named Sam Albury. Sam is a pastor and author and amazing speaker. He's going to be talking about the new edition of his very popular book, Is God Anti-Gay? This covers tons of relatable topics in what is going on in our culture right now. As Sam unpacks for us about learning that the gospel is about God being kind toward bad people, not God being congratulatory toward good people.
Because, spoiler alert, we are all bad people. That's coming up tomorrow. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
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