Aaron and I usually every day will ask this question to each other.
What was the high of your day and what was the low of your day? And that leads to other questions and it keeps you aware of what's going on in your spouse's life versus if all we do is work talk, you just start missing each other. Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.
And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. One of the things I love to do in our marriage is have conflict. This is not true.
This is not true. I actually run to the other room when conflict starts. I don't anymore. I used to.
No, you're way better. But I don't think anybody, do they, maybe you, do you enjoy conflict? I'm willing and anxious to get into it if I think that we will be better from it. But I don't love the actual doing of the conflict. Yeah, but I mean, conflicts are part of every marriage and conflicts are part of every relationship.
And we all know how to have it. Very few of us know how to resolve it. And so today we have a chance to listen to Ron Deal and Dr. Greg Smalley from Focus on the Family as they talk on Ron's podcast called the Family Life Blended podcast about this, about rest in marriage and also about how to navigate and negotiate and resolve conflict. And it's a great discussion. So let's tune in to Ron and Greg talking about married conflict. Let's talk a little bit about avoiding conflict. Who? Yeah.
As a peacemaker. Yeah. Yeah. That's my life.
I have a similar sort of innate thing in me. One of the things I did not know when I said I do tell death to his part is that I did not know I was going to have to learn how to manage conflict. I was going to have to learn how to stay engaged in the midst of conflict. When everything inside me says run, get away from this, withdraw. This is not good. There's no good to be found here. Get away.
Like developing that whole skill set has taken a lot of time, is taking a lot of time in me. How dangerous is it for couples to avoid conflict? It's very dangerous. I mean, all the marriage experts, the researchers will tell you that if we don't deal with our issues, if we don't work through problems, then we just keep stuffing that and you bury all those hurtful emotions alive. They're going to come back up. Buried alive.
Wow. You're going to have to deal with it sooner or later. And when it's later, then there's a whole lot of resentment that gets built up. There's a whole lot of pain and hurts. And usually it's intensified at that point.
It comes out as an explosion versus recognizing. I think it's James 1, 2 that says when trials come your way. So another way to look at trials would be like a conflict. So when trials come your way, consider that as an opportunity. Now it's talking about joy. And so certainly joy can come from when we work through problems, but honestly, healthy conflict.
So when we're trying to work through conflict, it's going to produce some amazing things. Like near where, you know, family life originally was down in Little Rock. I don't know if you've ever been to Murfreesboro. There's a state park called the Diamond something State Park. And you can actually dig diamonds. And if you find it, you keep it.
Exactly. It's the only place in our country where you can actually dig for diamonds and keep whatever you find. So we went there one time as a family. And so we had all this romanticized what it's going to look like and what it's going to be.
And maybe we find a diamond. Well, as you've been there, you know, it's like a barren wasteland. It's this big, dirty, dusty field that they plow up. It was hot, humid. It was disastrous. We're all sweating. We're covered in mud. It was the worst experience. And we certainly didn't find any diamonds, but people have.
The Uncle Sam diamonds, a 40 karat diamond was found there. I think the point is that that's kind of what can happen from conflict. Conflict can feel like this dusty, barren wasteland. We don't want to be there.
We want to avoid it. But there are diamonds buried there. And sometimes through conflict, as we walk through it and communicate and resolve and manage whatever's going on, it's like finding that diamond.
There's benefits. That is a peacemaker, a conflict avoider. That's now my true belief is that I don't want to have conflict. But if Aaron and I are in conflict, I'm so confident that God's going to put, there's some diamonds there.
It's up to us to find them. And that's made a huge difference. I still don't ever want to fight, but inevitably we will. Now I'm willing to kind of, as our buttons are triggered and we're reacting, as we take some time to settle down and come back, as our hearts are open and actually talk through, I know I'm going to learn something about me or Aaron or our marriage, something. There's some benefit.
There's some diamond that's awaiting for us. I think that's what's helped me really learn how to deal with conflict differently. I can imagine somebody going digging for diamonds and finding nothing like you guys did and then somebody says, you want to go back? Like, no, that's a waste of time. But if you did find something, do you want to go back?
Oh yeah, let's go back. Like all of a sudden your confidence, your trust in your us-ness and your ability to eventually do conflict well goes up. Success breeds success. And so sometimes I think, and I know looking back at our marriage, it was so hard to be willing to try to engage in conflict in a constructive way until we learned how to do it. I had no confidence in our ability as a couple to do it, my ability to just manage me, let alone our ability as a couple. But as we were able to find those little success moments, then my confidence takes a boost.
I got a diamond. Like, okay, I can go back with the hope and possibility, believing that it gets better over time. And I think finding that first diamond is what's so hard.
It's like, yeah, they say it's helpful to deal with conflict, but I haven't experienced that yet. And it's so hard sometimes, but I just want to say to those who are listening, if that's where you're at, manage you, learn what you need to learn, start working hard on that part of it and just see if it doesn't lead to the discovery of a little diamond. I'm telling you, they're there.
Because God says as we go through hard times that He's always going to give us something. The diamonds are there. It's just up to us to look for them. So what are some of those things that people can do to help move them in a better direction? Yeah, I would say one of my very favorites is a woman researcher followed, I think, 300 couples for over 20 years and just studied them. But what I like, she looked at those who had a strong marriage, a successful marriage, and what was different about them.
And one of the things that she found is that the couples who were happy, satisfied, you know, moving in the direction they both loved, spent about 10 minutes a day exploring the inner life of their spouse. In other words, all of us have to work talk. We've got to administrate our marriage. We got to talk about the to-do list and the task and who's picking Annie up and who's going to the store. Like, we all have to have a business meeting, right? Because it takes a lot to run a family.
Yes, it does. But the problem is the work kind of stuff will always come out. You don't have to even try to have to talk about stuff.
It's just going to happen. If that's all you ever talk about, the relationship becomes super boring. As a matter of fact, we've seen that the couples get trained over time that anytime we have a conversation, it's just going to be a business meeting and they quit talking. And versus, Aaron and I have to be intentional to go, we need at least 10 minutes a day exploring the inner life.
In other words, the emotions, the fears, the anxieties, the dreams, the good, just that kind of stuff. And we've really been intentional about finding 10 minutes a day. We might go on a walk or something. Yeah. So let me just kind of unpack that for somebody who's thinking, oh, we tend to talk about what happened in the day. How would we take that conversation and go deeper with it?
Yeah. A great example is, Aaron and I, usually every day we'll ask this question to each other. What was the high of your day and what was the low of your day? And it just opens up the conversation about, okay, the high of my day, this was it. Why? What about it? Why did that fill you up so much? You get curious about it. And you just explore that. So you're in your mind, you're going, okay, this is not the time to have a business meeting.
So I'm going to stay away from any of the to-do lists and all that stuff, budget, all that. We're not going to talk about that. I'm just going to stay focused on what was going on deep in your heart. How did you feel? What was the low of your day and why? What happened? Oh, that happened. How did that make you feel? It's super simple. That's been our kind of go-to.
We just say, what was the high of your day and the low of your day? And that leads to, you just explore that and that leads to other questions. And here's the value of that. It keeps you current. It keeps you updated. It keeps you aware of what's going on in your spouse's life. Versus if all we do is work, talk and have a business meeting, you just start missing each other. And we're always changing and things are happening.
And I want to stay attuned to what's going on in Aaron's life. We're listening to Ron Deal on the Family Life Blended podcast, his conversation with Greg Smalley about, man, oh, man, was that so true. I mean, you have told me a thousand times in our marriage, over 40 years, how you long for me to just ask you questions, listen, don't solve or fix your issues.
Just like Greg just said there, hmm, oh, that must have been hard. I mean, that builds intimacy in a marriage, right? I mean, if we were just putting into action that principle of tell me the high or low of your day, but then those next questions of how did that make you feel, wow, that kind of pondering with your spouse, that could change everything, but we just get in the grind of what's going on with the kids, what's happening at work, instead of going deeper into how do we feel. Yeah, and so if you want an action step, you could do that right now. But a better action step would be listen to the rest of this interview because there's more gold in this that Greg and Ron talk about. So we're going to go back to the Family Life Blended podcast right now. Enjoy. Okay, let's talk about one little wrinkle in that because then I can imagine somebody listening going, okay, if my spouse started getting really curious about my inner life, wanted to understand my day better, how I felt about it, I don't know that I trust them.
We've just sort of drifted and we've been in that space. Then feel safe. I don't feel safe. It would be hard for me to give them that information. What would you suggest that person do? That's the paradox in marriage actually is that it's full of risk. When we open our hearts, when we put our heart out there, the risk is that how will my spouse handle my hearts? What will they do?
Will they unconditionally love me, understand all that versus use that against me or judge me or try to fix me or whatever? So I would say absolutely I think all of us have to face the risk of putting ourselves out there. So I would say for that person who's going, yeah, that makes me a little nervous, I would actually have that conversation then with your spouse going, if we are having our 10 minutes, how can we really protect that time?
Like what would be some guidelines? For example, Aaron and I have agreed that when we're having kind of this 10 minutes and we'll call it out, hey, let's have our 10 minutes. And so we know what we're doing.
We know it's intentional. One of our rules is this is not the time to try to solve or fix something. So if Aaron shares, man, I've just been discouraged.
I just saw Annie's grades and she's just doing really bad. This is not time for me to go, well, OK, how about we do this? Let's try this. It's just to go, yeah, tell me more about that. It sounds like that's really bothering you.
What is it about that? So it's OK to compartmentalize part of the conversation in order for you to stay in tune. Yeah, you're protecting it.
You're really guarding. Remember, guarding from the little foxes. So one little fox in that stance is the desire to fix something, which is, guys, we will very much always want to do that.
But it's just recognizing the true values of staying present with Aaron around the emotions. So if she's sharing that she just saw that Annie's not doing well in school, I can jump into problem solving. Let's get a tutor.
Let's do this. Or I can say, how am I going to understand? I can see that's really bothering you. What do you think? What's getting stirred up for you?
I don't know. I just don't want to see her. So how does that make you feel to see her grades?
I feel failed as a mom. Oh, man, I had no idea. Tell me more about that. What does that feel like?
What does that mean? So if you're willing just to be present and just dial into the emotion, you can always just say, OK, so it sounds like maybe I'm hearing this. Tell me more about that emotion.
Or you just guess and throw it out there and she'll go, no, not really. It's more this. Whoa.
Yeah. Tell me more about that. That's when I learn stuff about my wife, when I keep her focused on the emotion versus problem solving or whatever, or opinions or discussing facts or whatever. It's dialing into the emotion that will make that conversation, that 10 minutes, really strengthen the connection that you guys are longing for.
I'm curious about the COVID world that you guys have been living. Has there been any opportunities for you to learn anything about your marriage in this? Yeah, actually, I probably had one of the biggest epiphanies in my marriage, just insights that I've had a long, long time.
When everything got shut down and actually our adult kids came back home and we just all wanted to be together. It was fantastic. I love that. But a couple of days in, Aaron sat all of us down and said, OK, hear me. I have been cooking three meals a day for all y'all. I'm done. That's too much. I'm exhausted.
I'm done. Someone else has to do the cooking. And so being the spiritual leader of our family, I cast lots. And I lost. And so I became the default chef in our family. And actually, I was like, you know, I've always wanted to kind of do that. What a great time. So I began to cook.
Here's what I quickly discovered. I would get up in the morning. So we're, you know, can't go into the office.
I'm working from home, which was awesome as an introvert. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. But so I'd get up in the morning. I'd kind of rummage through our freezer looking for some meat. And then I'd find it and go. And then I would, you know, go on Pinterest and just type in whatever the meat was. And I'd find all these really cool recipes. That's kind of what I was doing.
But throughout the day, then, I would worry. Like, what time do I kind of defile the meat? Do I have all the ingredients? Oh, man, when can I go to the store?
They all, some's dairy-free and some are gluten-free. And, you know, how will I do it? I just found that I would worry and fret, seriously, all day long, preparing for dinner. And one day, I was looking for some recipe on pork chops. Okay, found some pork chops. So Erin walks in and I'm like, hey, help me decide here. It's either honey, you know, pork ribs or garlic pork ribs. I can't decide.
What do you think I should cook? And she literally pats me on the bottom, which I was totally fine with. Kind of smacks me on the bottom and goes, hey, you got this, chef. And she kept going. And I was so offended, not because of the patting me on the hiney, but because she wasn't willing to help me. And I literally said to her, no, no, no, I can't make all these. Like, help me.
Just choose one and I'll cook it. And she really was going, you got this. And then all of a sudden, it was like a light bulb went off. And I went, is this what you felt like for the past 20 years?
Like, did you used to worry throughout the day on what to cook and all the details of cooking? And she just gave me this beautiful smile. And honestly, Ron, it was in that moment that I went, oh, my goodness. My wife has felt totally alone for many, many, many years around cooking. And it just made me realize that there were areas of our marriage that either one of us felt super alone. And it led to such a good conversation. And I said, tell me more, what has that been like for you to kind of feel like you've bared this burden of cooking all by yourself? Because, see, she would cook and I would clean. But I promise there was never a moment during the day that I thought, do I have enough liquid dish soap?
Or how will I put everything in the dishwasher in time? I mean, never. But she had really had to deal with all those details alone. And it's such a simple thing that had such a profound effect because it just led into a good conversation about what was that like?
And then what other areas of our marriage do you feel alone? And actually, she even asked me that and paying the bills was one. Exactly for me, the same thing is that I had to do that all on my own. I did it. She cooked.
I did that. But it became such a cool thing between us going, we don't want either of us feeling alone. So what would connecting around some of that, even if I was going to be doing the cooking, even if she was going to start paying bills, we didn't want to create another system to where someone felt truly alone in that. And I would encourage you, be courageous enough to ask your spouse, are there areas in our life together, in our marriage, in our family, where you feel alone, like you're doing something all by yourself, you're bearing that burden fully? You know what it talks about in the scriptures to bear one another's burdens?
It means two things. Either we assist, it would be the difference between a backpack and a steamer trunk that we're trying to carry around. So if Erin feels alone and feels like something's beyond her ability, like she's carrying around a big old steamer trunk, how can I help her?
How can I bear that with her? So we could either assist or remove that thing completely. So cooking now has become something I said, I want that. And yet we figured out how to do that to where I don't feel alone.
And it's been great. And so be courageous enough. Have that conversation and really talk about that and discover there probably are some areas that you guys just doing what you do and you're going to do it probably without complaining. But it's that we don't want our spouse to feel alone in doing that stuff.
So how could I either assist or even remove that thing completely? That would be the goal. We've been listening to Ron Deal on the Family Life Blended podcast talk with Dr. Greg Smalley from Focus on the Family. And I just got to say, I saw you over there. Like, you're going to get me in the kitchen so you don't feel alone when you're cooking. Did you hear that?
I'm not going to do it. Did you hear it? I just got to tell you right now, honey. Let's just talk about like areas where we both feel alone. You got all excited like, oh, Dave's going to hear this and he's going to do it.
I hate being alone in the kitchen. I know. You've told me. Do I need to confess right now that I'll do this?
Oh, that means accountability. I didn't say I'll do this. I said, do I need to confess that I'll do this? If it makes you that excited, if I, okay, I'll make you a deal. I'll jump in the kitchen and help you cook if you start golfing with me.
We said earlier you get on the golf cart and that's great. But man, if you actually start swinging the club, okay, that's not going to happen. Maybe. No, I can totally- I can say it's not going to happen. No, it's totally going to happen if you'll come in the kitchen.
But here's the thing. What they were saying is so true because you can really feel lonely in a marriage, even in a good marriage. And I think men often feel this because we carry things that we don't often verbalize. And I'm telling you guys, you need to verbalize because I think your wife wants to carry that with you. Am I right?
Yes. And women feel alone too, especially when they were talking about in roles. I think that's just a great conversation to ask one another, how in our marriage do you feel alone? And this would be a good podcast to listen to together. You listen without your spouse, go back, find it on Family Life Blended, and it's called Roommate Marriages. You don't want a roommate marriage, you want a real intimate marriage.
And listen to this and then have a conversation and talk about what do we look like to rest together and to share activities so we don't feel alone. You've been listening to Family Life Today with Dave and Anne Wilson. In the past two days, we've been hearing clips from Ron Deal's podcast, Family Life Blended. Now, each episode provides practical help and encouragement to blended families and those who love them. You can hear the full episode with Greg Smalley when you search for Family Life Blended wherever you get your podcasts.
And look for episode number 76, that'll lead you there. Or you can get the link at familylifetoday.com. Now, you might know this, but family life is so much more than a daily podcast. We've got a lot going on here, including what we call the Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaway. And I've got the president of Family Life, David Robbins, here. David, we've got some of these events getting ready to start right now.
Where are those happening? Well, this weekend we have a few Weekend to Remember Getaways happening across the country in Atlanta and Washington, D.C. And over the next few months, we have dozens of locations that you can go check out. And the great thing about these Getaways is that no matter where your marriage is, whether it just needs a romantic Getaway, whether it needs a tune up and some refiring, or whether you're in a really hard place, it can meet you right where you are.
We see it happen every weekend. And I was recently at a Weekend to Remember Getaway where there was a couple who had been married for four years. And the wife wrote our team and told us as they were leaving the Getaway, she said, We came here not speaking to each other with years of compiled hurts, despondence, and stuck in the cycle of hurt. And we're leaving not fixed, but with lots of tools in our toolbox and eager to get to work on all the things that we've learned. We are leaving here with hope. And I am forever grateful for this Weekend to Remember. I love hearing stories like that where God intervenes in a very specific way. I also love hearing stories of couples that just retreated and got away, and the good that was happening in their life leveled up to something great to help tackle this next season. I want to encourage you, if you haven't gotten away recently and invested in your marriage, you will never regret taking time to focus on the most important relationship in your life.
That's right. And you can find out more and register for a Weekend to Remember. Just head to familylifetoday.com, scroll down, and look for the Weekend to Remember tab. Or you can give us a call at 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word TODAY. Now, coming up next week, we're going to hear from Gretchen Saffels and how important it is for women, and men for that matter, to find peace in Christ.
Not your circumstances. That's next week. On behalf of David and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
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