Gretchen Saffles: Thirsty for more?

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And what are the things that I need to surrender and to leave undone? Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app.

This is Family Life Today. Okay, so you've preached a lot over the years, 30 years of preaching, but you have what you call a theology of it. Talk about that. The theology of it. You've never heard of it?

Anybody ever heard of it? The theology of it is, and I think everybody has this, we just don't know. We have something that's it, that if we get it, we'll be happy. I mean, you can go through a journey. I could go through my whole life. I remember when I was like six or seven years old, I begged my mom for a Stingray bike. Anybody remember Stingray bikes? I had one. It was like the most exciting thing in my life. Was it it? That's it. It was not it.

No. You get it, and you ride it for a while, and then you're like, well, then, anyway, you get through my whole life. I remember when I got to high school, I was like, if I could get a college scholarship, and I got it, and I thought it was it. And for a moment, it is. And you go through a whole thing. And honey, I got to say, I thought at one point you were it. Wait, and I'm not?

What happened? You're amazing. But there's no thing or person or amount of money that can be it, but you sort of think, that's why I call it the theology of it. If I just have it, then I'll be happy. So here's the question. Is there an it?

I think so. I mean, I think that's where we're going today, but I think Jesus is the it. And when we find him, he really is the fulfiller of our soul, of our story, of everything. And I think every other search will leave us empty.

Not saying those things are bad. They're actually wonderful. Even you and our marriage, it's awesome. But it isn't the end of the well.

It's like we're still searching for something. And I just brought up a word that will introduce our guest today. Gretchen Saffels is with us.

Gretchen, welcome to Family Life Today. Thank you for having me. I've been so looking forward to this. We're excited to have you. You're sitting over there smiling. I'm guessing you have a theology of it? Oh, absolutely.

I mean, you're saying that. And I'm going through my mind and thinking of all the its that have progressed over my life. All the things that I've thought, if I just had that thing or was in this season of my life, I would have fulfillment and joy and finally the peace that I'm longing for.

And then you get that thing and it falls apart really fast. Or that person that you wanted to take notice of you, they disappoint you. Or that thing you wanted to accomplish. Well, yeah, you've accomplished it. There's more that you need to do, right? There's the next rung on the ladder. She gets this theology, Dave.

Yes, absolutely. It's infinite. It is infinite if you just keep looking and it leads us to nothing. I mean, it goes back to Ecclesiastes and Solomon preaching that it's all vanity if you don't have Jesus. But when you do have Jesus, those its in this life, they actually become something that makes us enjoy Him more. He is the well that always satisfies and never runs dry.

And I've come to realize that those things in my life, I actually can enjoy them more when my fulfillment is in Christ, when my satisfaction is in Him and all that He's done for me. Well, you've written a book about this, really, this kind of theology in a way. It's called The Well-Watered Woman. And you are the creator of Give Me Jesus, Quiet Time.

You're the founder of this global online women's ministry called Well-Watered Women. And a mom. A mom.

And pregnant. Yep. All right. So you've got two boys at home. Yep. Are you having a third boy? Third girl. Wow.

The third one's a girl. That's exciting. So maybe that's it.

I think that may be it in a lot of different ways. But really, though, I mean, coming back to that, I always dreamed of having a girl. And when I found out the first time I was having a boy, I was sad.

I'm going to be totally honest. I was like, God, I just thought it was going to be a girl. Then I had this boy and I fell in love with him. And then the second time around, pregnant, I'm like, this is a girl.

Find out it's a boy. The day I found out, I just wept. I wept.

I was going, Lord, I thought this was going to be a girl. And God had to show me. He pried my fingers open that that was my it. And I thought, if I just have this this little girl that I've always dreamed of, I'm going to have the satisfaction. And you know that theology of it sneaks in.

It sneaks in in ways that you just don't realize until something exposes it. And you realize, you know, for me, it was realizing, OK, I'm going to be a boy mom. And God exposing that I had really idolized having a girl someday.

I really idolized that. And that the gifts that God is giving me, they are good gifts. And that the greatest gift of all is to know Jesus.

It's not to have the things I want in this world because he knows that they're not going to satisfy. We live in a world that's broken. We walk through brokenness and even those things that we get that we think, oh, this is it. You know, in the end, it's not. I think what you're saying is important because even knowing the theology of it, and like Ann said, I've preached it for 30 years. People in my church are like, oh, Dave's going into his theology of it again every year. Even if you know it, we still do it.

We know Jesus is it. And yet it's like, oh, yeah, but if I get five more RPMs or five more feet or a thousand more square feet, we end up still thinking. And then, like you said, something happens.

We go, oh, yeah, what am I doing? I think we as women can do it, especially in relationships. Like you're talking about a child or a husband or a spouse. And it is this drift. Like I knew Jesus, I had Jesus, but I feel like when I was taking my eyes off of him, they automatically go to. And for me, it was you, Dave, thinking if you would just get your stuff together, that was the it.

If you would act like this or if you would do this, if our marriage could look like this, then I could be happy. And it was this slow little drift. And I think that's how our walk with God can be. It's just a slow pulling away.

We don't even realize it, but suddenly we're finding and looking for something else besides him. And so let's kind of get into this. Because in some ways this is what well-watered woman is, right? Explain that. What is a well-watered woman? And I'm guessing it would be the same as a well-watered man.

Yes, absolutely. So first you have to go into what does it mean not to be a well-watered woman or a well-watered man? And really it's life apart from Christ, living the dried up life that's seeking after the fruitless things of this world that we think will satisfy. We think will give us joy and contentment and peace and all the things that are in our hearts. There's this void, this ache in our hearts for more. And it can only be satisfied in Christ, our Savior. And so apart from Christ, we're seeking, we're striving, we're looking around for all these things. And yet it leads to nothing.

It leads to vanity. But in Christ, when we come to know Him, when we come to the end of ourselves, we find everything in Him. And so the well-watered woman is rooted deeply in God's Word. Her identity is in her Maker, not in the things that she can accomplish, but in all that He has done on the cross for her. And she can set aside this empty pursuit of striving, of trying to measure up to the standards of this world that are impossible. They're impossible, even the standards that we place for ourselves.

I mean, we see that we cannot. Christ is the one who did everything. He lived the life we couldn't live.

He died the death. We deserved to die in order that we could have true, abundant life in Him. And so to live the well-watered life is to realize that we are nothing apart from Him. And that the things this world has to offer really is meaningless.

But to know Christ and to drink deeply from His Word and to live out the gospel in our life, and for our hope to not be in the things that are in the present but in heaven, and being with our Savior, with our God forever, that's the hope that roots us and keeps us going in this world. Well, let's talk about why that doesn't happen. You know, because I'm listening like, yes, yes. And I'm sure our listeners are like, yes, yes. But it can also be hard. So hard. I know. So let's talk about that. Even for you, you talk about having panic attack on a plane. Like, take us back there, because you knew Jesus at this time.

I did. So what happens that we aren't living this life that Jesus has promised us? Yeah. Even as a believer, we can get caught up in this pursuit of more. Even the pursuit of ministry in the name of Jesus. Yeah.

We do so many things for Jesus and forget that He calls us to be with Him. And I actually was just journaling this week because I was having this feeling of, I'm so behind. I look at my... Said every woman on the planet. Yes. Oh, my goodness. I've got two young kids at home.

I run a team, a ministry, and a business. You're pregnant. I'm married.

I'm pregnant. And just even looking at the house, I was telling my husband, I'm so behind. I literally can't keep up with the laundry.

And that's just like one teeny tiny thing in our house. And as I was just praying about it and kind of laying out all of these things that I was feeling behind on, I wrote down that you cannot fall behind when you are following Jesus. See, just that right there.

You cannot fall behind. So when we are in step with Him, He doesn't call us to have perfectly folded laundry every single day, to do every single thing. And, you know, in that moment, Christ might be calling me not to fold my laundry, but to spend time with my son who needs to hear the gospel, who needs to have his heart encouraged and comforted.

He may be calling me to bake dinner for my neighbor who just had a baby. And it's really aligning ourselves each day and going, God, what have you called me to do in this moment? And what are the things that I need to surrender and to leave undone? There's a quote just about how the Christian life is about knowing what to leave undone.

And really, it is. It's going, what do I leave behind, Jesus, so I can follow you faithfully today? And He doesn't leave us behind. He doesn't go, oh, you were going too slow. I cannot keep up with you. Like, you are just too slow. As a matter of fact, I think we go too fast in this world. This is the pandemic that everybody's facing is this pandemic of hustle and hurry and keeping up.

And social media is not helping that, because we're connected all the time with people and what they're doing, and we lose connection with our Savior and our Maker. Well, how do you women let things go? Because I hear that from two women sitting in the studio, and I think for a guy, sometimes it's I can lay on the couch and watch a game, and I'm watching her run around doing a laundry, doing everything, and I should be up helping. I really should.

But I think it's really hard. But you've got to watch the game. Yeah, I've got to watch the game.

You can't miss a play. No, I mean, I've watched Ann. It's really hard for her to let something drop, whether it's the kids, meals, food, you name it. I'm guessing, Gretchen, you're the same way.

So how do women especially, and you wrote a book for women, how do you put the priority right where, okay, you know what? The laundry doesn't matter right now. Spending time with my son does. You know that.

How do you do that? Do you do that? Not all the time. I want to be completely honest. It's hard. It's a day-by-day surrender to the Lord. One of the things that I was thinking about recently is I have a very busy life, and I know everybody listening, talking to you guys. We all have our own busy lives. But I was actually reading my Bible the other day, and it was so hard to make myself stop. I mean, I just was like, I need to do all of these other things, but I know this is important. And I mean, I'm reading in 2 Samuel right now, too, so it's not even like I'm reading something that I'm going, okay, the Lord's going to speak to me right now.

I'm reading about Absalom rebelling against David. But even after I spent that time with the Lord, I just realized this is the non-negotiable. I mean, my heart was ready for the day after just stopping and realizing that the world's going to keep spinning. God's going to keep things in motion if I am not doing constantly. He calls me to be still, and that's where He guides my steps. And so it's really, you know, we see in Scripture this importance of walking in step with the Holy Spirit.

And I think that in the Christian life, we can think that you spend time with Jesus, you know, or you go to church, you shut your Bible, and then you move on with your life. But really, I mean, you even look to the disciples. They walked with Jesus, the Word of God.

Daily and hourly. They sought Him. And we also see that they didn't do this perfectly. We see them wandering. We see them questioning. We see them, you know, even interrupting Jesus when He goes away to be alone with the Father. And so we can learn from this example that we come to Him. This is what it's all about, abiding in Christ. And, you know, in John 15, when Jesus is talking to the disciples, telling them what it means to abide in Christ, to abide in Him, this is in the middle of His farewell discourse before He takes on the cross. And so you're looking at these words.

These were so important. He wanted them to know, you've got to know this before I go, that you can only survive, you can only live a fruitful life, if you're abiding and remaining in Me, if you're making your home in Me. So it's this constant communication with the Lord.

I mean, sometimes it's this simple prayer of just, Jesus, help me. Help me know what to do right now, or help me let go of this striving, of this feeling like I'm behind on everything, and I feel like I'm behind because I want life to be perfect and easy, or because I'm comparing myself to somebody who I think their life is perfect and easy. Well, I think what can happen, too, is we can feel like I'm falling behind. And I can say this, too, I feel like I'm failing.

And that can generally slip into, then, I'm a failure. Right. Or then it slips into identity issues.

Right. And you talk about these identity issues. You call them identity roots. I thought that was interesting. Can you talk about the rotten roots?

What are those rotten identity roots that we say or believe? You're listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Gretchen Saffels on Family Life Today. We're going to hear Gretchen's response in just a minute. But first, I wanted to let you know about a special group of people who make conversations like today's possible. They're called Family Life Partners. It's a community of people who believe in our mission and give financially every month. And thanks to some generous partners, right now, if you sign up to give monthly, you not only receive all the benefits of our partner program, but your donation will also be doubled for a year. That means if you give $25 a month, the impact is actually $50 a month. If you give $50 a month, it actually becomes $100. You get the idea.

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Pretty good deal, right? You can give today at FamilyLifeToday.com or by calling 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word TODAY. All right, now back to Dave and Anne with Gretz and Safels and those rotten identity roots that can alter what we believe about ourselves. A lot of those come out in our theology of it. Those are exposed whenever we start to realize, wait, I thought that was going to satisfy me. And our life is constant sanctification.

God is constantly working, chiseling at our hearts, uprooting these rotten beliefs, you know, thinking that I have to be perfect all the time or God's going to be disappointed in me and he's going to abandon me. That's a rotten root. And going back to the panic attacks, because you mentioned that about the plane and I know that there's somebody listening who is dealing with that.

It's so common. And I had a lot of rotten roots that I was believing at that time. I felt like I had to do everything and I had to do it well. So I was a young mom, had a one-year-old.

We were taking him on a mission trip overseas because I can do it. I've got this under control. And I was working constantly.

We actually were about to have a foreign exchange student come live with us. I mean, we were doing it all. You were doing everything. We were doing it all. And they were good things, right?

Exactly. I was doing ministry. My husband and I were in ministry. We were going on a mission trip. Serving Jesus. We were serving Jesus.

And yet I had this rotten root of, I have to do it all and I have to do it perfectly. And if it's a good thing, then that's a yes. If it's a good thing, then it's a yes. But that's a lie. I'm serving Jesus and I have to do it all. If I don't, what? Then it's not going to happen. Then things are going to fall apart.

And that's such a lie. We begin to think that we are the Savior. That if we're not doing the work, if we're not reaching out to people, if we're not writing or speaking or sharing or encouraging, then how's God going to get it done, right? Yeah.

And that can easily slip into our thinking. Or, you know, leading Bible study at church. If I'm not doing it, who's going to do it?

If I'm not volunteering, who's going to volunteer? That's so interesting. I was a young mom and I was leading and started our women's ministry at our church. And I really felt God was saying, I want you to take this time away and I want you to focus on your boys.

I think CJ had just turned 13. And so our youngest was eight. And I was telling this woman, she was a mentor of mine, she came into town, and I said, I just feel like if I don't do this, it's going to fall apart. And she looks at me and she said, wow, you must really be something. And I said, what do you mean?

She goes, if God can't replace you, you must really be something. I was so convicted. I mean, the next day I was like, I'm done. And it was so sweet because I remember my eight-year-old saying, moms, are you not doing that?

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with working moms. Like we're all called and we're doing things that God's called us to. But I remember him saying, thank you for doing that for me. I was like, wow, goodness.

And so I think that's important though, to realize like God's got you and God can fulfill these things, even if you're not there or doing it. And I'll just add, watching Ann in that moment, two things, I shouldn't say the first, but I'll be honest. The first was, no, no, no, no, don't stop. We need you. She was building an incredible women's ministry. I was watching her. I was like, you are an incredible leader of women.

You have thousands of women mobilized in our church for this ministry. And then the other thought was, I can see what it's doing to our family. I can see what it's doing to you. I can see what the boys used to say. All mom does is walk around the kitchen with a phone in her hand. They said that. And back then it was a corded phone.

So we literally got an extended cord that would go like 20 feet in our kitchen. I'm like, that's a bad sign. And when your kids are saying that, and she did. The next day she quit. I mean, way to go.

And you know what? Nobody replaced me for a while. Because we're all young moms. We're all busy.

People are working. And so, but I mean, it's still later thrived and God's in control of that stuff. God didn't need us. God kept it going.

Yes. You know, it's amazing when we shift our mentality. It's amazing what God can do without us. Exactly. And we realize he invites us in. He's not going.

It's a gift. If you stop doing this, it's going to fall apart. How will those people come to know me?

How will they? But it's so easy in ministry to start thinking and just life in general that if I don't do this, this is not going to happen. How did you get out of the panic attack? I mean, is that something that a decision to change the way you thought and find life changed that? Years. Years of decisions.

Yeah. Years. This is not something that just, and sometimes God does this miraculous work in somebody's life. And you know, that just all of a sudden, you know, they just, it clicks and they walk in freedom from addiction, from panic, from anxiety. But that's not what it was for me.

It was this slow uprooting. And there were several other things that happened in my life in those coming years that it felt like things were just unraveling. All of my it's that I thought I had, you know, oh, I'm in ministry. That's my it.

Like God is, God's providing. I've got this great marriage. That's my it.

I have a little boy that I love. That's my it. And you know, I'm healthy.

That's my it. But then all these things started to just unravel. My health started to unravel. I want to read some of these rotten roots because I think every listener will be able to relate to some or one of these. One of them is what others think of you is more important than what God thinks of you. Oh, man. Another is you have to mask your hurt with a happy face. True beauty is determined by your weight, skin color, and size.

Another one is in order to be successful, you must be constantly productive and never take a break. I mean, I think all of us can relate to one of those at one point or another in our lives. Yes. For sure. And when I was writing those and pinpointing them, it was because those are all the ones that I believed.

Yeah. That's what I've struggled with. I struggled with that when I was in the throes of panic attacks, when I walked through an eating disorder. All of those rotten roots, they eventually manifest in our actions and in the things that we are doing. Our thoughts and the things that we are believing will actually change how we act, the decisions that we make. And so we want our thoughts to be rooted in God's Word. We want that to be what comes out in our lives. And so it's God's grace to expose these rotten roots. Well, we're gonna continue this conversation, but if you had to do one application for our listeners, what would you say? I would encourage them to not be afraid to expose the rotten roots. I had somebody, I remember even when I was walking through it being so ashamed of my rotten roots that I had believed because I'm a Christian. Yeah, so we had them.

I shouldn't believe these. I shouldn't be struggling with this. And I was so ashamed it kept me from fellowship and from true freedom in Jesus. So I would encourage people not to be ashamed that God already knows, He already loves you in Christ Jesus, and He has set you free, but you can't be free while you're in hiding. It's in that exposure we find freedom in Christ. I'm thinking of Isaiah 53.5, which you mentioned. By His wounds, we are healed. His wounding was for our healing.

Yeah. That's David Ann Wilson talking with Gretchen Staffles on family life today. You can get a copy of Gretchen's book Well-Watered Woman at familylifetoday.com or by calling 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. If you know of anyone who needs to hear today's important conversation, you can share it from wherever you get your podcasts.

And while you're there, it'd really help if you'd rate and review us. So how do we actually spend time reading the Bible and have our spiritual batteries refilled when life is busy and you have young kids at home? Seems impossible, right? Sometimes.

Or all the time, doesn't it? Well, tomorrow, Dave and Ann are going to be talking again with Gretchen Staffles to help you get on the solution side of getting time in the Word when life is busy and with little ones in the home. That's coming up tomorrow. We hope you can join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.