Keith & Kristyn Getty: Authentic Worship

The Lord values beauty, and he values poetry, and he values every single part of what it means for us to be human.

And I think music triggers so many of those parts, and when we push it away or we don't harness the gift that it is, we're missing something, something very important. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app.

This is Family Life Today. One of the things I find fascinating is people who are gifted by God to write lyrics. Yes, don't you want to be them? Oh, I mean, I've written so many songs and nobody's ever heard any of them. You've heard a few of them. They're good.

They're terrible. That's why nobody's ever heard of them. But to write a lyric that millions sing, especially in a worship service, that is a powerful gifting from God.

And I just write a song that somebody's going to sing in the shower, but someone's going to sing to worship and ascribe worth back to God. And we get the chance again today to be with Keith and Kristen Getty, who that's who they are. They are prolific songwriters, and they brought hymns back to sort of the 21st century.

So they're back with us today. And they're great people, and they're fun to be with. And here's where I'm starting. Like, what about the people that we've talked to that they say, Oh, we're going to skip the whole beginning of church because we don't sing. We don't like that part of the service. What would your response be to that?

I know you'd be kind, but I think there's several problems there. Number one, there is a theological issue because all of us are called to sing. We're all commanded to sing. It is the second most common command in scripture, so it's a disobedience thing.

Secondly, it's a misunderstanding theologically of what we are as God's people. The reason I sing on Sunday morning is, number one, because God is worthy of praise. Number two, because he has commanded me to sing. Number three, it's because I love to sing, and it is joy. But number four is because my kids are beside me watching me, and I want them to know that I'm more excited about Sunday morning's church than Sunday evening's Super Bowl. I want the person in front of me to know that even though she is ill and has got, she has to sit on a couch because of the pains in her body, I want her to know that the believers behind her are singing at the top of her voice and singing for her.

I want the people around me, some of the young students who, if it's anything like when I was a student, I have no idea where they are spiritually right now. I want them to know that we're encouraging them that by our singing we are bearing witness, where two or three are gathered. The Jewish people immediately knew that was a litigious comment. It was echoing the court of law. And so we sing because we're commanded, we sing because we're created, we sing because of what Christ has done for us, but we also sing because Sunday is part of the body. You know, there's a kid who sits behind us, and I'm concerned about a decision they're making at the minute. So me singing is part of it, and me caring enough for him is also part of it. And as being part of the body of the church, if we have a weak view of why we get together at church on a Sunday morning, then that's just a reaction of that. But I think there's more than that.

I think there is a challenge. Men are sick of it because I think also we're singing bad songs, we're singing effeminate emotional songs that are actually, compared to a hymn generation person, they would consider them narcissistic and rightly so. And also our worship leaders are both leading services in very, very high keys, which are hard to sing, and also are pepping everything with lots and lots of talking, almost like they're trying to manipulate us to feel something, which is nothing to do with Christian worship.

I think there are other issues too that need to be looked at, and I think all of us need to look at those things. And in fact, then the emotions become directed the right way and deeper because I think our worship comes as a response to revelation and authentic worship. People often say authentic worship is an authentic view of the God of the Bible. It's not how I feel or my reaction or my experience of something, but authentic worship is an authentic understanding of who God is. And so if our songs are full of who God is and what he has done, then our reactions are in the right place and our emotions are in the right place and they're focused in the right direction.

And so it's an incredibly emotional thing. And you mentioned Great Is Thy Faithfulness, you know, that's sung by my grandparents, sung by my parents at their wedding. And I sing it and I'm looking at my kids and there's something about this truth passed on that we share something bigger than ourselves. And so our singing should bring a sense of commitment from us individually, but it should be a way of folding us into the community of God and should provide this relief for us actually to taking our eyes off just ourselves to the shared experience of what it means to be the body of Christ. We face all these things, we come in so bruised in many different ways, and it is the truth of God that revives the soul and lifts us up.

And very often the best way to express that is through the songs of God's people. I remember sitting in seminary and my professor that day was talking about worship and theology. His name was J.P. Moreland. I don't know if you know that name, but he's written quite a bit since then. This was when he was actually getting his Ph.D. at USC at the same time as he was teaching us. But I remember this comment almost 40 years ago. I remember this comment he made about worship.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. He said something to this effect. You know, worship singing is a response to understanding and seeing the glory of God. And he said, yeah, I think our worship songs in church should be sung after we open the Word of God and see the holiness of God and see the glory of God. We should then respond to that. Often we sing before we open the Word. And again, he wasn't making a comment about how a service should be structured, but he did.

I'll never forget that. I thought, he's so right. It's a response. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I actually think J.P. Moreland was making a comment about how a service should be structured, and I agree with that. I also, from memory, I think the point he was making was that after we study the Word of God, we should respond in worship. I don't think he was actually saying we shouldn't do it beforehand.

So I actually would 100% agree with him. I like the Anglican tradition, which was, if you take denomination out of it for a second, historically what the Anglican thing was, was when the Reformation happened, and then the services went into English. The first place was the Church of England that was founded. And Cranmer organized the services so that they took the best of the historic liturgy, some of which went back to the Jewish times, some of which were historical Christian times, and then he shaped it like the Gospel. But in the middle of the service, he had the Bible read and then taught. Then you come out of that with prayers for ourselves, our families, our churches, our communities, the world around us, and then we sing in response, and then we do benediction and then celebration. So there was quite a lot of singing after the sermon, and I 100% agree with that.

I think, you know, C.S. Lewis talks about it as completing the joy. You know, it's almost like when one of our girls, little Tali, our three-year-old at the minute, it really is into art and painting. She's actually pretty good at it because I was at the bottom of my class all my life, so it's amazing to me. She's very little, but she's a little bit of a flair, which is fun to watch. But her joy is not complete until when? The answer is when she actually shows it to us. We weren't artistically talented. We didn't help her do the painting.

We were nothing to do with it. But then she comes, and her joy is complete when she does that. So if you imagine the things that you have learned about the Lord in the sermon that warms your hearts, or the challenges you to live a more holy life, the joy is complete when you sing it back. That's going to be a big theme this year of the Sing Conference. The Sing Conference is actually all about that, is ordering our services and how we do that. So I'm a big believer, like you have said, in JWM, that we respond in song afterwards and complete the joy. Actually, for all of you who are worship leaders or musicians, the singing is way better after the sermon if you do it.

It's so true. Kristin, you and Michael W. Smith have partnered, and you've written, is it a new hymn that you've written? Actually, this is a hymn done by a number of our writers at Getty Music. So Keith and then Matt Balswell, Matt Merker, Matt, lots of Matt's. Matt Papa.

David Coughlin. Actually, they worked on it quite a bit just before COVID hit a couple of years ago. It was completed a few weeks before that and launched at the beginning of that season. It's inspired by the Heidelberg Catechism.

It maps out throughout the song where our true hope lies in life and death, that phrase. So it was very timely, and it was always very exciting that that happened right at that time. I've recorded it before, and the guys have recorded it at the same conference. But this is a special new release where Michael W. joined us to do a duet version, and that will be out in May. That's going to be fun.

That'll be pretty. You know, as I'm thinking, so many families probably aren't doing what you're doing. I loved how you talk about singing with your family at church in a service, and yet you do that during the week at home.

What's the appetite? You know, help a family that's listening going, boy, we're not songwriters, I can't carry a tune, I've never one time sang with my family at home. Where could someone like that start? I think you just start playing the songs of the Lord, good songs, make good song selections in the places where life happens. So if that's around breakfast in the morning, if it's in the car, just start feeding it in gradually, making it part of the soundtrack of life.

It's just amazing. That's really where most of the learning happens, because it's just sort of caught as they go around, and I'll just catch my girls listening or joining in. But then it also needs to come, you need to have that intentional component as well. So we just sort of folded it into our evening time with them, because that was the time when they sort of wanted to gather in close to us.

And it actually became low-hanging fruit for me, because I got so stressed trying to process all the things I wanted to pack in. And we actually thought, well, maybe just like singing a song might actually be the easier thing to do. And so we would just play it before they go to sleep. And I would say, here's the chorus, why don't we hum that chorus together a little bit? Or that's an interesting line, oh, for a thousand tongues to sing.

What do you think they mean by that? Do you think we have a thousand tongues? I don't think we have a thousand tongues, but I guess when we all gather with the church or when we gather thinking of those who are in heaven, gosh, that's thousands of tongues singing the same thing.

What is it we're singing? And then using it to sort of talk through some of the ideas. And so they became an easy guide for me. I just followed the lyric and used it to start conversations.

We did that. But it does help a lot when the church is affirming the everyday practices of the families that make up that church. And I think our church would send out songs to us in advance. And we find actually during Covid, it was interesting because so many families were with their families in there for the first time after so many churches had split up determined on age. Covid brought us all together across the ages, you know, and so suddenly, very much more than ever, we were standing with our kids in our living room looking at a screen singing. And so I think it created a brand new opportunity for people to actually hear their voices, maybe if they haven't heard them for a while and encourage their kids in that. So I think it's something that we just start a little bit and we gradually build it up.

And then anybody who's pastors or music leaders, you know, being intentional about inviting the family into the process. Why do we sing? What is it? Why is it important?

How can we help them at home learn these songs? Someone once said to me, I never thought of this, was what is the most important part of this? It was a children's expert, a family expert like yourselves. And they said kids love what their parents love.

So if the parents love doing it, the kids will love by some level of extension, it'll connect closer. And the second thing was it's not this is not a new idea. For those who are listening, I mean, we were meeting Dr. MacArthur once and what do you call the coffee shop? A coffee shop. A coffee shop in California.

There are many. My wife hates the way I always get into these like side conversations about what the coffee shop is called. It's the Irish blarney, you know, just keep talking and talking and talking. It's just a chain but it's not Starbucks, it's the other one. Anyway, we were going for a pinch of pee.

Doesn't matter. Panera Bread with Dr. MacArthur. And I asked him, I said, any advice from kids? Because we had like three kids and I think Kristin was pregnant and we were in like some hotel in the middle of California with the noise of cars everywhere.

It was just your ultimate family nightmare. I said, any advice from kids? And he pretty quickly went to, he goes, a lot of it begins with the songs you fill your home with. And so even people who are better known on the teaching side are saying the way to actually teach these doctrines deep with your kids is to sing them.

It's interesting. We have six grandkids and we were recently with one of our sons that has four and they pray every night before bed and the oldest is seven, the youngest is two. But if he doesn't sing to them before he leaves the room after prayers, they'll remind him, Dad, you didn't sing over me tonight. And how that's just become so sweet.

It's like a blanket of God's grace and security over them as they sleep. And we also had an 11 month old granddaughter who had had a 45 minute seizure. Oh my word. It was awful. And it was traumatic. But in the hospital, they needed to do an MRI. And so she couldn't eat for eight hours. And my daughter-in-law was frantic, like she's not going to be able to go that long without eating.

This is going to be a nightmare. And so we prayed, Jesus, you are the only one that will be able to do this. And she was crying. The baby was fussing and she was hungry. And I took my phone out.

Sometimes there are some great things about our phones. And I put worship music on and I put it right next to this baby's ear. It was miraculous. It was God's just sweetly answering this prayer. She fell asleep and she slept for two and a half hours.

This girl has never slept more than 45 minutes. And that son and daughter-in-law went home and they constantly have worship playing in their house. There's something beautiful.

What is that? Well, music has a beautiful healing quality. The Bible shows us instances where that has been important. We think of King David.

He played music to try and calm the terrors of Saul's soul. But it's important to us. We're not just facts and figures, people. We are moved. Things impress themselves upon us deeply.

Why is a sunset important? Why is it when we have a meal, we don't serve it to each other like we would to a dog in a bowl on the floor? But we sit up and we are interested by the colors and the tastes and the experiences we share as we're gathered.

We're different. We're made in the image of God. And the Lord values beauty and he values poetry. And he values every single part of what it means for us to be human. And I think music triggers so many of those parts. And when we push it away or we don't harness the gift that it is, we're missing something, something very important.

Hey, I've got one last question. And I think it applies to families and parents as well. One of my favorite lyrics in your song, In Christ Alone, and I'm sitting here with the authors of it, so I've got to ask this question. I love the line, I love singing, you know, what heights of love, what depths of peace, when fears are stilled, when strivings cease, my comforter, my all in all, hearing the love of Christ I stand. What is in there as you wrote that?

What are you communicating? Because I love that lyric. And as a parent who often strives, it's a comforting lyric to remember, In Christ Alone is my peace.

But I'm putting words in your mouth. I'm wondering what you thought. Well, it was Stuart's lyric to give Stuart his credit on it. But the big concept of the song is to try and join what we believe, is to make a creedal hymn with a difference.

It's like saying the creed with a difference. The idea was we're going to take the fact that Christ was born, that he lived, that he taught and died, that he rose, and that he is returning again. And then what we do is we tie every part of life to that as you go through the song. So it's told like a journey, it's told like a story. And then by singing it, hopefully we can sing it to ourselves.

But if you want to ask Kristin and I, if we live all of those things out every minute of every day, that would be a whole different question. That's what's so great about even just the craft of hymn writing, is trying to find a way of taking these great timeless truths and dispelling them in such a way that we can member them and they go deep, like you suggest those few lines. And the song, as Stuart has written it, is so rich in gospel truth, but the connection to real life. And I probably have sung that hymn more than anybody on the planet. And I've been singing it for 20 years and it's been such a great privilege. I've often reflected that if there had been one song that I would have to sing every time anybody asked me to sing anywhere.

I'm so glad it's that one. And personally, as I sing it, because it is the gospel and it's connected to real life and it's alive, every time I sing it, I can connect it in fresh ways. I'm not trying to conjure up some sort of emotional place because I'm stating wonderful truths that he's beautifully put that makes sense no matter how I'm feeling.

And so I don't have to try and push myself into a certain place. You know, I just love the fact that that song just finds you where you are and you just go for it. And I've also loved being able to watch thousands and thousands of people over the last 20 years see their faces as they sing it, see the conviction, see how the gospel floods in and causes those strivings to cease as we focus on what the Savior has done and how he calls us into his kingdom, into his story, into his grace, wherever we are, wherever we are, whenever we are there. Well, Keith and Christian, on behalf of Anne and I, and really the whole community of Christ followers, thank you.

Thank you for what you do, what you offer. Your inspiration even today, I can imagine as Easter comes up, Good Friday, Easter weekend, I can see thousands, hundreds of thousands of families. I hope they're inspired like we were to be standing on Easter Sunday with their children around them and their grandchildren singing at the top of their lungs like they would if their team won the Super Bowl. I mean, it's more important than any victory.

It is the victory. And you've given us a language and an emotion to lead a family with. And my hope and prayer for our listeners, for us, is it wouldn't just be for Easter. This would be something that we're doing every day, that we're listening, that we're pouring this into our kids and allowing them to soak it in. It's discipleship. This is an easy thing that we can do. It's not like we have to be theologically going to seminary and this is something that we love.

It's in us. It's in our soul. It's how God has made us. And it's what we have always done, what the people have got to avoid and what they will do. We've been studying a little bit in Exodus and trying to write some songs into the songs of Moses. And when the children of Israel cross that Red Sea and they're standing, Moses has this beautiful song and then Miriam joins and the women are singing. And it's thousands of people singing, every single generation. Sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously the horse and his rider he has cast into the sea. But it's the gospel story there and it's little tiny ones and it's old people looking and seeing what God has done and enacting for us what it is for God's people to celebrate this triumph, to celebrate this victory.

And they do it by singing. Yes. Thanks, you guys. That was so good. Thanks for having us. It's an absolute privilege. Thank you for the work you do at Family Life today. We have been on weekends, so many from Bob and all the leadership.

We've just enjoyed it so often. Thanks for being our partners, you guys. Appreciate you.

Thank you. You've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Keith and Kristen Getty on Family Life today. You'll find links in our show notes to their performances of Be Thou My Vision and their new recording with Michael W. Smith called Christ Our Hope in Life and Death. Again, links are in our show notes or at familylifetoday.com. And if you know of anyone who could benefit from today's conversation, we'd love it if you'd share this podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

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That's 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word today. Do you think God just cares about our souls, or does He care about our bodies, too? Pastor and speaker Sam Albury is going to be joining Dave and Ann Wilson next week to talk about just that.

Spoiler alert, it's both. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.