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September 21, 2022 8:00 pm
Does leaning on God feel like more duty than delight? Author Jeff Norris offers habits for a lagging heart to find an undeniable, indispensable rootedness.
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So if you think of a moment in your life. For even our life where you felt like I absolutely can't do this, if God that show up as one first when it comes to my mind is the first binary me.
I know that I should have thought that marrying you welcome to family like today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most in Wilson and I'm Dave Wilson and you can find email@example.com or on the family life. This is family life today was the first weekend to remember conference, and I was 2929 and there were thousand people in this ballroom and I thought I had no business being up there. I have nothing to say. Apart from you, Jesus, and I was in the shower that morning on my stomach on my face begging God that he would use me the second thing that comes to my mind is when we came in to do radio. It makes me teary thinking that because it was again that feeling like Lord we we can't do this, apart from your grace apart from your Holy Spirit.
This is above our pay grade abilities in our giftedness and so we got on our knees in the studio and said that Lord we can we can only do this and powered by your spirit, what were you thinking to make this about us, but there's a thousand moments book that last one yeah was the first was I thought of how are we going to fill Dennis Rainey and baba P shoes ministry. They bill over three decades that God bless. We have no right we have not. The gifts were gonna ruin something that's great and we got on her face right there in the dark. There's nobody there in the studio yet and we ask God for that reason I bring that up as we got Jeff nor submit in the studio with us today who Jeff Logan for their benefit life today. Having no first first love at first impression.
Oh, just awesome. Everything from what else are you saying you're on here right but I mean gosh the studio hospitality is nice even friends with our president David Robbins for how many years how was the day that I go back 20 years. I guess if you go back 20 years. Can you give us something nobody would know about this guy got a little that I can belittle me here at those later ever seen dance. Oh gosh I can't count how many to sell you nothing.
They'll know I have sheep she missed it okay with you.
When he joined the family speaker team like time of the speaker. We are restricting they have to do a skit to introduce themselves to the rest of speaker team and had to miss that little retreat and he and Meg dance and I was like she wish, you can really lay down their credible note. I mean what's the question mid-forties now settle if he has what you stab it back in the day.
I mean first time ever, solid evidence is going to say this but I was a student. Still, he's a couple years older than me and I was a student in college and I went to a crew were conference and David was maybe a first or second your staff. At that point with crew and he was the MC and to open one of the meetings he came out and danced with the group and I had a choreographed and it was just like like boy band type thing and I just remember thinking wow you think he was cool rethinking what will I thought was cool also thought I could never do that and sues because like I was stunned and also impressed at the same time a little know the guy would lead us to serve on the same staff team with crew a few years later and we got to be. We got really close brothers in Christ a lot alike to get Walter Lockhart things together and God commanded us that our hearts together. During that time I watch as well. So this special, but hopefully our listeners will get to know that side of our president and Meg actually is what we talk about that you're here to talk about a book he wrote called, rooted, which is a subtitle lifestyle of radical dependence grade book is I was reading it and you start Ridge beginning where we were talking about this moment where you are. Like I cannot do this tell us about that. Yeah so is you guys were just talking. I mean it. It resonated with me so much. Even again, what you are all saying just about stepping into this role. Stepping into the shoes of Dennis Rainey and Bob Lapine and feeling that so deeply in my own experience getting ready Pope is who planted a church called perimeter church in 1977 and outside lantern is just northeast of Atlanta suburb called John's Creek, Georgia a letter for 42 years, God used him. He's just incredibly humble. The church grew significantly, but he's probably the farther sling could imagine from celebrity pastor's never been about him. It's always been about the kingdom and in so many ways words really fail me to express what I think of him how much I admire him what a mentor he's been to me is mentored you since college right so many many years and so backup six years and in he invites me to come be on the staff that perimeter church is one of the assistant pastors.I've been all staff accrue for 13 years at that point and so after Rachel, my wife and I prayed a lot. We felt like yeses with the Lord is saying yes to. So we made the move and fall 2019. I'm taking over as senior pastor.
Following in his footsteps and what you all owe you. What you guys open the this the show with me. I'm just reliving what I was feeling at the time and still feel all the time whom I whom I did to step into this role to lead this church we feel our insecurities so deeply the enemy of course comes at a so strongly that you can't do it your you're not able. But then the Lord reminds us in in a very gracious way you you know yeah but my power is made perfect in weakness and in so I say all that to say that there there was a moment in my life.
There've been many others, but that was the most poignant, the most significant. The most just overwhelming moment of Lord I have to be radically dependent upon you. That was the phrase that came to my mind have to be radically dependent upon you for him to do this if you're gonna do this through me and so that's kind of the genesis of the book of what is happening is the very first sermon series that I did as senior pastor in the fall of 2019 was was this was essentially what this book is this where I just talk about okay moving forward as a church we were going to be an even more significant and broad and that is as a people of God who are we to be that we have to be radically dependent upon Homan is not an optional thing is what is called us to. And yet it's one of the hardest things to do because we just so easily default into our our own ability your own power, our individualistic mindset. We have so you know so deeply in the West thinking this might be safe yeah hey I want to be happy and that part is like to be radically dependent on him requires like jumping out of the boat yeah and that's a scary place for us to be sell as I'm thinking about that. Is it a necessary place for us to Beatty think is I've shared this with others in even thinking about that were radical love that word is just been you so much and in its I wrestled with do even name it that name the series.
What taught that it's lost its meaning here is to be a euphemism. All that's radical right like what Sammy right and it's been overused and so with the lessening and the meaning of it, but I kept coming back to it. Just because I think that is the word that we need because it pushes us towards something that is so very uncomfortable, so that's how you find it. How did find yeah will the irony of it is that what were saying is radical is actually normal in the kingdom of God in you know but that the title normal dependency just doesn't catch radical dependency right so. But that's it it it will what we say all men, that is radical dependence you read the pages of Scripture to go and that's what God calls you to. That's normal dependent in his economy and his kingdom, but because of our sin nature because of our struggles because of our doubts or fears because our sin we feel as though while that's radical, but radical would be okay. I'm going to walk in what God has called me to walk in and in the way of self-sacrifice dying to self unit. When Jesus said if you'll follow me must take up your cross daily, deny yourself, follow me.
What is he mean by that, and does he mean what I think he means and no on one hand. So yeah, it's just that simple.a cell phone, but on the other side of the coin. It's while there's a lot to that, that I'm not sure I want to sign up for Jesus didn't mix any words as it came to what it meant to follow him have to count the cost of discipleship. So, being rooted in discipleship that's that's also anchored in self-sacrifice, but there's a beautiful I think I try to paint a picture of a beautiful dependence is not only vertical of a vertical dependence upon the Lord first and foremost, but a horizontal dependence upon each other that we are not going to radically depend upon the Lord and will unless we have that that body of Christ surrounding us and we're doing life deeply together, helping each other be dependent upon the Lord and leaving us each other to the cross so so many things I want to the book about all this means that we are not just thankful, but radically thankful.
Where were not just people who pray, but we we radically pray in the sense of prayer is the ultimate expression of dependency. So it is not to be a statement of condemnation will I don't pray much, so I guess I'm not dependent more of motivation of okay will if I want to be dependent, if that's what God called me to that his power is made perfect in my weakness. The weaknesses in advantage and, therefore, prayer is what what I long to be true of me more more and so I want to pray, not out of guilt but out of desire and longing, and that even pursuit of dependence and achievement. Even as I hear you say you know weakness is a almost advantage because it forces us to be dependent writers everything in my human DNA is like none we hate weakness.
We like strength.
We celebrate strength and yet you're exactly right.
It's all through Scripture. The only way were going to even need to be dependent is we get 1/2 to be weak. Yeah right. Well I just even talk with you before you earlier today were get to know each other just a little bit today and Marty picking up on your story football athletics man that was my background as well and what you taught me can be weak, the way you never show weakness right right annually on the bench yet and there's so much that's that's just press deep into our DNA through not only what were born into.
With our self-sufficiency of who we are spiritually. We were self-sufficient were independent. I wanted a set of the fund that is right right and so we inherit that nature from Adam and Eve wheat we have that what I call the Adamic residue in us of. I got this in I'll pursue my own glory in my own story. I see what you got for me God. But I want something better. So we have that in this with anyway. But then there's these things culturally, where the Weatherby football, whether it be that anything in life that produces and values and you know glorifies that man I can show weakness. Now here's the interesting piece of art, may not want us to get often in a Elmer rabbit trail here, but I think it matters, I'm genetics for however many years. Over a decade I invested in millennial's now have kids who are agency have teenagers in my home. Well, what's become incredibly attractive to millennial's, and that even more to Jens E vulnerability how you your is a sweetness yeah talk about your weaknesses so you know, and for me genetics. Michael Keck account get that, I'm in between her right nano boomers and what I like I are probably way more vulnerable than they want to be but point is now are dealing with younger people who say yes be vulnerable. Yes you weakness but to what and that's the question that I ask younger people as to why I love it be vulnerable, please before people. Please be weak so that what in the answer to that from a biblical kingdom mindset is so that we can fall into the strength and the power of Christ is not just notability for the sake of vulnerability such as weakness for the sake of weakness is not just hey, I can't get together some disco yeah I'm in a wallow in my in my weakness and sin, but is so that we fall into the strong arms of Christ so that he is the one who is powerful through us and you. You know this as well as anybody as a pastor of a church. You set the vision and mission and core values right right so I'm a founding pastor 30 some years ago and when we were writing a core value around this very one and pray that even though like she went in that meeting with as we were debating. How do we string out words matter and words have power.
So you say this right.
Unlike in this how the conversation went someplace that we got about this. This weakness thing that you know points to the strength of Christ okay right yes we right. Here's what we wrote.
We want to be a church where we recognize and reveal our weaknesses, thereby psychiatrically good because so in places you pretend and they only put up the thing so were not only are we gonna reveal it but you gotta recognize it in yourself. I am a sinner and they were to not hide that rent real build it in there like dynamite. I'm not kidding. I am not like that myself on the back.
I was like a guy like Roy is not done yeah that's really going to go just what you just said I didn't use your words, but to what I like. That's only half the story right. Yeah why we can recognize and reveal her weakness. So here's what it ended up being. We recognize and reveal our weakness to point to the power of God, because it's gotta be both Ami and even Janet Z would tell you yeah I don't want just the end of the story to be.
I'm weak and I can't do anything I wanted to be yeah but is there victory yeah there is victory side of me in Christ to live in the right right as I read through your book and Mike that's what rooted means that I'm rooted in radical dependence and that dependence forces me to glorify and have power that I don't have but that he has here I am try to tailor your books about relevant because it's radical dependence in who right in because his were dependent or will always Jesus him.
It's his strength is his powers the Holy Spirit within us. It's we can be dependent all kinds of things me. This is get back in the classic idolatry on talk about altering about but there's all kinds of things would be dependent on and there's all kinds of things. Our weaknesses can lead us to independence and so how we finish that sentence radical dependence on water who fill in that blank is was good for the blank makes all the difference. The world I want to hear your thoughts on this because you're leading us somewhere that we gotta answer good and for some reason this came to my my my youngest son's in ministry.
He was preaching with me at my church for seven years and every moment you know when you're sitting there like oh my goodness he just said some profound you not like that's my kid really forget Cody said one day in a sermon. He said if Jesus is enough. I don't know him enough for him to be enough. Another word I've got to know him better.
You are just talking about radical dependence on Jesus.
I think often we gets we get stuck because we don't knowing right well enough for him to be everything so explain that well you will be careful to say men were all in this journey right coming.
I feel that often what Cody said Mineta there days where more days and then the not where I feel that house dependent. Also, many things other than Jesus today and that's the beauty of a daily walk with Christ of repentance and faith in his grace, covering us every day and not presuming upon his kindness, but also knowing that his kindness leads to repentance and being able to just be honest about that and keep coming back to to the strong arms of Christ, but you think by coming when you say that I think okay the very first thing that popped in my mind is a star walk with Lauren college through the ministry of true in fairly early on. Someone had handed me the book knowing God by JI Packer back that still still this way a little bit the back that I was, not reader something a bit like the first 23 chapters but what I read really change me here listening to David and Wilson with Jeff Norris on family life to a will hear what it was in the little he read that changed him the first I wanted you to hear what one listener said about a recent family life to a episode.
She said it was refreshing and a gift.
The conversation that the Wilson's had at the end of the podcast was so real and personal, and I needed that. Today I pray other couples hear this today and let it bless their life like it has mine, that's great.
So awesome when you support family life to a year blessing. Other families with that same encouragement. That's exciting to you right now you can donate firstname.lastname@example.org and as our thanks when you give today will send you a copy of Michael and Melissa Kruger's book 5 things to pray for your spouse, you can get your copy when you give it family life to a.com or by calling 800-358-6329 that's one 800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today. Right now, back to David and with Jeff Norris and the important difference between knowing about and knowing I'll never forget reading at the very beginning that book where he talks about the difference between knowing about God and knowing God, and I think we talk about dependence. We had to be very careful because we can know how how to talk about dependence upon the Lord versus being dependent upon him, but even then okay what it was at me was it mean to be dependent upon the Lord, it starts in my opinion, and in my my own experience with creating habits that often outpace my heart. What I mean by that is this.
I've never been a person who is just naturally prone to spiritual disciplines past and am a pastor and I know I know and am following a guy Randy Pope is one must discipline people have ever known who ever he puts his mind to it.
He doesn't so again I'm walking into those shoes thinking my goodness who my butt. What I've learned over the years is that I kept waiting one my tendencies as I want my heart to be in it and we wait to be dependent until our heart is in it that make sense. So what I'm getting at is this I failed for so long to have good habits, good disciplines because I follow my heart's not there, and so I just wouldn't pray a lot harder going to be genuine and read the word a whole lot at certain times in my walk with the Lord because I just feel like I'm doing it out of duty wanted to be delight. And of course yes please God make it delightful. Yes, Lord, I wanted to be because I so desire. It, but human reality our life in the battle of against sin and in darkness in this world is theirs up there so many mornings where that just does not. There so what we do well.
A lot of times dependence flows out of the habits that we create an inner heart catches up.
So in the book I call it the lagging heart syndrome or something like that, but I find my heart lagging a lot of times and so I failed to depend upon the Lord because my heart is not in it and I feel like God has shown me of the years okay if I can create habits. Those habits oftentimes will outpace my heart but my heart will catch up and is my heart catches up. Then I find myself very naturally living out a a faith lifestyle that is very dependent on the Lord. Now the habits are the focus. Jesus is the focus, but how are we taking those steps to say okay if I want to be dependent want to be in prayer and Salisbury. I need to be in the words was get the word to skateboard individually. Disc didn't work corporately. Now you guys been around family life crew Charlie Sarah were all there, like I got to get around to know you better accrue family life church me these are things we talked about for so long.
So much so that again.
The younger generation feels probably some level that we we made it legalistic. We made it.
You know it about the quiet time, so be careful with that but also for like it might be time generationally speaking to come back around and push those things in again to so you may not of like how the older generation made it legalistic if some were guilty of that. I'm sure we were was just stop and think about what are the means of grace that God has given us that draw us into a deeper dependent relationship upon and is those things it's prayer is the words the gathered body. The means of grace is disciplines and so those things help us be more more dependent benefits. If you think about our generation or any generate especially the younger generation. If there's one thing I do understand. It said if I want this body that I don't have her now.
I got your work for nutrition and exercises at all time high and they do understand we all do math final feel like working out just what I'm there work out anyway because I want that body.
My heart can follow you say things just what you say it's no different, spiritually Christ. I've always said is not size your fate that matters, it's the size your God. But here's the thing we don't know guys how to get to know God when you open his word and look at even when you don't want to start to go. Oh my goodness, I felt that this is who he is and that's the kinda got I'm to be radically dependent upon because I see him in all his glory. I forget when I'm not there I'm not reading and I'm not looking, but I read stories like Africa is who he is.
Why would I settle for anything but radically being dependent upon that God because I know that God is a man in he so the more we get to know him the more we see how big he is, how majestic he is, and we end up at least in spirit, maybe not literally but maybe literally on our faces like Isaiah, you know what was me.
I'm a man of unclean lips on the people of the part of a people of unclean lips, and that's not just this beat yourself up condemnation thing going on with Isaiah. It's what happens when you're in the presence of God. You see your inability in his ability and you got want more help, not me man. We all struggle with pride. All of us. Part of that at Adamic nature, but if we have people who are perpetually prideful in the church, then that gives me indication as to who's not been sitting in the presence of God because you show me a prideful Christian.
Also, your Christian who's not sitting in the presence of God again not not making a condemning statement.
I've seen that be true in my own right right right of just man when I'm when I'm prideful.
Oh, there's a connection here. I haven't been in the present time to sit with base always talked about.
I would think the next step for me and anyone else's kit in the presence of God immediately emailing you now feel today even listening to Dave and he Wilson with Jeff Noris's book is called rooted a lifestyle of radical dependence you can get a email@example.com.
If you know anyone who needs to hear today's conversation. Be sure to share it from wherever you get your podcasts only are there a simple way you can help more families discover God's plan for marriage and families is by leaving a rating and review for family life to that tomorrow will be back with Jeff Noris to talk about how refocusing on Jesus can be the cornerstone to building your children's that's tomorrow on behalf of David and Wilson time shall be added will see you back next time for another edition of family life to family life today is a production of family life accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most