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March 31, 2022 10:00 pm
Author CJ Cagle challenges us to rethink our resources in light of God's advice -- commands -- on money: what's dangerous, what's wise, & how to get out of debt.
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Okay one of the things I hate to admit is you'll know as soon as I say this when we pay our bills every month.
Are you laughing God tells something happened.
Actually, you don't pay our bills every month anymore, because something that happened that you would turn into a different person.
You are so stressed. You are so angry it would permeate the entire house for about a week and so we change to pay the bills and started paying the bills.
Well, one Christmas when you go here, and I was at Toys "R" Us and I only did one shopping day because our kids were little Simon Toys "R" Us and I have all of Christmas in my car and I get to the checkout and my credit card doesn't go through. And I've got this line behind me. I am so embarrassed and I had to leave the shopping cart and go home and asked Dave what happened and why did I bring this welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most and Wilson and Dave Wilson and you can find us if we live today.com or on our family life, family life today but the card was maxed out all they would let us put nails on it so I think you are late in paying the bill because we know anybody and I was the year by the way, we said that's it number one and got to go over the financial part number two were not going to put stuff on a credit card anymore. It was discipline not to do this why we buried are sold to the world about our financial check brain hurt your feelings. I sent about that at the center. Now that's reality that I think we share because we learn from it and hopefully others can learn from it, but we need a lot help. We all do. And so we have Chris Cagle with us today who wrote a book about retirement, reimagine retirement, but it's more than reimagined retirement. Yet christen welcome back to family life today. Thank you. You're here to counsel last. Thanks for your account loss and hundreds of thousands of others as well because were not the only ones that have made a mistake like that for the way that was in the first five years of our marriage and were 35 years beyond that. But if we hadn't changed something financially then we might not even be able to sit here with you today but anyway you been married because this many times is a cause for divorce can be yeah and your book is called reimagine retirement and you've been married almost 50 years to your wife, kids, we do have two grown children and ran to six grandkids, four of them live there locally distraught world and to our own Colorado and it's been inspiring to hear your work that you're doing in your church in your community. You have been pouring into the kingdom of God for a long time and so this is just one of the things that you do is writing books with the topic of finance. Have you ever had that kind of discussion or tension in your marriage, also about money absolutely 50 years on no yelling or the seller is the budget target that's so you know I would sit down each month with all my nerdy have always been commentaries on the you are about Ramsey talks about the nerd. The free spirit that is your nerd. I would sit down my spreadsheets, my computers and my software in my books and I would come down from on high and my hair would be why the glowing light say, thus saith the budget grew wife. Here is our budget and she would kind of you know, lovingly compliant, but she did right was the kebab as I caught the first deviation. Aha where you Toys "R" Us. I saw a toy where that's not my favorite phrase was, that's not in the budget repeat after me that, though not in the budget and how would she respond she would get upset, hurt, angry, and we would have arguments about will usually need this goes in discussions marriage but you like John Boehner's war books are so I could my wife she loves to collect dishes when you stop collecting dishes doing exactly and she will and shall say will will you stop collecting books as I do and I more books that I've read probably a set of boxes better than boats riding on the boat, but I thought that I wouldn't like boats but but yes we had art.
We had our struggles and it was really through my first exposure to financial peace Dave Ramsey's course that I realized I never ever sat down with her and actually had a conversation about her money. You know, I assume that I was in charge and that I knew best and that out of my well of infinite wisdom was going to come the very best budget for us in the very best financial plan for us wasn't bad in a lot of ways. The problem was she was at the table. She was even in the game and that this was that was a bad move. But what I decided to do is okay honey were going to have budget day and we did this one Saturday, budget day, I call it budget day. It was a Saturday. I still remember if she was here she was budget day and we sat down and I brought out all all and I see honey were going to go through every single item on the budget and I want to hear your perspective too much, too little. What should be and what should be out there were things not in the budget that it is up in the argument example we were leaving a small group at the time. She said you don't know this, but I take ladies in our small group out to lunch to three times a month and I'm responsible in our day to go but she says exactly you want me not to do that know I love that you do that I need to know you did that sound nice is like that but it opened my eyes to the fact that I needed a category and then she loves to give little gifts to your wife yeah and I just say little welding or small motor that I am a little anyway. She got the opportunity to say, can we factor this in the budget. So I started walls. This goes in that house it's, like a balloon you personal and cycle pop out on the mold you got your waffle to give your to go to get there and it took about almost 4 hours three or four hours to get through it and we for all practical purposes have that same budget today. I would say that was 20 years of how, if your wife is the one that's really good at the budgeting and the numbers would you guys be okay with that. But here's the question is and you know this couples fight over money.
Huge tension in American hopelessness right now.
Maybe I can talk about it because his attention.
What would you say to help will if it gets to that point where they just can't talk, it's because they haven't talked to me and you know that's the kind of the root cause, but there may be other issues at play, which may have will have to do with just different views of money.
The purpose of money. Why does God give us money, how we do rightfully use her money, even different perspectives on what the Bible teaches about money and I think this is where getting good cell biblical counsel really really is important to get on the same page, so to speak, and heartbreaking mentioned the word financial infidelity knew about that when that's a danger that can come to creep into relationships where one partner is much more focused on and involved in the finances than the other and the other partners like Autocare just do it. Just do it. Just what I want to go do these other things and they just assume that everything's okay and the infidelity part doesn't necessarily have to do with wrongdoing. It's just not being honest.
So you know, because I believe strongly that a couple becomes one flesh. When you're married, and God sees them. That way there is in a practical ways in many practical ways their finances have to become one as well. The idea of living separate financial lives is don't really see that in Scripture that you can't have individual accounts.
Some IRS rules and other banking laws and things require certain accounts to only be if you have a retirement counter can only be in your name but your husband can be your beneficiary and assist gets really complicated and blended family. Yes, especially that Ron deal with our blended family ministry has talked about this piping. Where's the even listening to him at times, but when my mom came home from shopping with me and this is a true story this is not if I feel it, this is a true story of a lot of women and Tite don't take the bags out yet and don't tell your dad what we think doing is at financial infidelity yes okay yes if you are spending money from a shared account and if there is has been a mutual understanding. Up to that point that we are going to make certain purchase decisions together. Now that doesn't mean that in my opinion that every single penny right but any kind of significant expenditure that could have an impact on the budget that isn't at least discussed hey honey around the store on think about getting a birthday gift for so-and-so's probably going to be about 50 bucks you know and it's one of the hiding yeah it's more of that.
The idea that that's for some reason that question is, why conceal why what's the reason or just it may be just not sharing information, I often will talk to couples and we'll talk about retirement savings earlier have a wife say to me you know my husband he handles all the investments in on any idea what we have her house invested. It doesn't mean that he's intentionally trying to hide something illegally listed or immoral or whatever but why would he not sure that with her. She's never asked you. Don't be helpful if I knew, where we are financially. You know I love when I decided to retire about three years ago I had to sit down with my wife and say we should reassure her a little bit that we got this with God's help we can do this. And as you've heard me say many times it wasn't just about the numbers it's about what is working to do in retirement, but to give her some reassurance.
I had to share a lot of information with her.
I don't want her to think there's anything in our personal-finance life that she can't know about or ask about if she wants to know. She puts up a hand as you can see the hand like a one and I don't anymore. I don't hear all this detail.
Financial mumbo-jumbo just cut to the chase to me what I need.
learn what serves her and what is loving quarter for you guys out there or you ladies who are handling the finances.
think about it in those terms.
how can i be loving toward my spouse when it comes to sharing with about her finances and managing our finances together and i'm guessing secrets are not good secrets are totally ops of the secret ceiling even wrote a blog about loving your window. what in the world you yeah so i asked men that could be a woman of me could be his wife. either way, you know, if your wife and you have reason to believe you might predecease your husband recently. think about if you if you have all the finances works both ways. statistically, most women will outlive their husbands.
thus, the statistics, god is sovereign god sets the time not you and me. nobody else just him so one of the ways we can love our widows is to think about what is going to be the financial condition of our spouse. after were gone.
now that has to do with provisional the one hand, so in my book i talk a lot about social security and the benefits for many couples having a good sound so security benefit strategy. you know how they receive benefits, delaying social security as long as possible to allow the benefits to grow. one of the ways that that loves your widow. for example, is that if i'm the primary earner and i maximize my social security benefit when i'm gone. my wife's survivor benefit is maximized's wonderful thing about social security so that's one way there's another way. the letter i have a letter that i joking not jokingly belittled, tongue-in-cheek refer to as a letter from your husband who is now in heaven and that letter i tell my wife or anyone who might be assisting her everything that i think she needs to know about our financial situation or day-to-day affairs, including all the my gmail account my passwords and password vault like ebola passwords in which i would strongly suggest people have how to get to the vault how to get the passwords who to contact if they need help, our life, in some ways it's gotten simpler since i retired so i have fewer accounts, fewer this fear that because i'm all about simplification for just that reason. that's another way to love your widow was to simplify things so you will have 10 account spread across 10 financial institutions, and you know hundred different passwords all over the place, you can. some find help to do that. but to she will let me read it to her. so i say which are, you can read it if you want to sit down and there is little comic relief in it. as i write it like i'm looking down heaven even though i'm not sure when we'll be able to deep waters there much or what we can see in monthly so yeah that's one way to do it. if you're out there and you haven't done that in some form or fashion. it's a way to love your wife from the grave. from heaven that do you can do this when we can add something really wise plan.
a man makes me want to do that in some ways you want to think i'm going to die. no, no, you don't know and those questions need to be answered in the other essential documents to you right will, power of attorney healthcare power of attorney financial power of attorney.
those things have those employees talk about debt almost every financial visor i read, listen to from ramses around luda, you name it.
i'm guessing you'll be the same talks about a debt-free lifestyle. is that a good thing that saying it's definitely a good thing especially speaking is retiree going into retirement debt-free and not having a mortgage is huge. yet, i had a mortgage on time so i can't say i'm anti-debt.
if i had a mortgage or that i think that is wrong then i was wrong to have a mortgage.
the difficult thing about that is that on the one hand, debt is not forbidden in the scripture, but on the other hand, the scriptures are pretty clear the debt is dangerous and can really wait us down. it even goes so far as you know, the familiar scripture that it makes a slave to the lender.
right now it doesn't mean obviously just slavery in a physical sense but slaved to the fact that we have, to give money week we are forced required to give money to a lender that therefore can't be used for other purposes like saving or getting right, so in that sense that bondage breaking that bondage of debt can be a real positive thing to create margin when you're younger to be able to save and give and when you're older to help lower your expenses in retirement so i don't think all debt is evil small to very moderate amount of college debt in order to get a degree that offers you the chance of a promising career that will enable you to quickly and easily pay that debt back would not be a terrible debt. be nice to avoid it.
if you can, but it's not terrible. getting a debt to buy house that's likely to appreciate in value is not a terrible thing to do. being able to lend to a family member. although i prefer giving over lindy or lynn to a friend interest-free to help them through a difficult time in life. bible says that's a blessing as a blessing to be able to listen ill. god said to the people israel would rather you be a lender than a borrower. so we see the dynamic in scripture.
installment debt revolving debt using debt to finance the purchase of things that can depreciate in value bad financial decision, and i know that a lot of that, at least in this country. personal debt is i want to live a lifestyle that i can afford right so i put on a credit card. i read somewhere the average american when they make four dollars spent seven dollars. i just memory. then when i read that i thought to write a song about so that guitar and i got a guitar here to studio and this is clearly this is all you and i called my dent blue.
so if you make an spent seven you and did you know, if you make dan's really know.
i can bring some to get up and so i just saw dave ramsey with his big bear scissors.
i mean the truth is i mean really dumb to do and yet it's like the lifestyle that so many of us live and we think this is where even the statistics early in your book come into play is i can live this way and then when i get to the you know the time where i'm not can be out of work anymore, or i need to live off of what i've save were back to that statistic we started on 1/3 of us have done nothing or in you don't even very little we can't live on it, and so there we are, and it's so easy to go in debt because everything is at our fingertips, you know, we can be at bennett midnight tony just rubbed the joan on amazon and in a day or two that present or that item can be on your front step and it's already attached to your credit card.
it's really lizzie to add that up so as we wrap this up and you're looking at 2030 4050-year-old thinking about their money what your best wisdom. what would you tell first and foremost recognize that all that you are and all that you have is been given to you by god and as a christian you therefore have a responsibility to wisely manage those things. despite the challenges that exist in the culture. the pressures that everyone's under to manage those things in a way that are for your good and his glory and notice i said both your good and his glory. god has a heart for our good. he wants us to live in the good of the financial gifting that is given us. but the bible is just chock full of wisdom help and guidance and where you need help filling in the blanks. there's tremendous resources out there and i would encourage you your local church seek out a financial coach or advisor read some books you know locksley i wrote one, but i'm not the only one liable to my book is really accomplishing what i've learned by reading many other books men that i respect avoid debt as best you can avoid credit cards like the plague especially when you're young live below your means so you can create the fine and natural margin to save and give but never save the expense of giving, you know. and if you can't save or give because you're spending too much or you don't make enough income go to work on that side of the equation.
get help, pray, and most importantly, keep your eye on the prize, which is it's not a worry free retirement. the prize is eternal life in glory with jesus forever. perfect. that's great advice and i think the things we miss and you know this better than anybody is when we have a plan.
it leads to freedom like even when you said but today i think it was as if you really live at that plan, you can feel the freedom that money will restrict if you're under it.
but if you're free like i'm living the way god wants me to live is a good steward of his money meant thanks chris is my pleasure. thank you to good stuff fun, just as extra faith yet so a question that's a lot of people's mind is how much do i need to retire as you and you do have in my retirement savings account, ira or whatever. just perhaps to supplement other sources of income to be able to retire at least live in a standard of living that you had before he retired. so if i was asked each of you this question. how much do you think you need to retire what you think. that amount would be put on writing on. i mainly my garnering my own and handwrite her own each of you write that down, down. i don't know if you have some financial infidelity here for just a minute to show you right now my number on writing down my number i now let your anger when you think writing it for your you as a couple, not individually, full of mine and pass it over to let my wife see it okay so okay here's my question. is this a number really even close to each other.
they're not even close, close, and my thigh close to dave thought you put what you thought i'd say i think you are and said what she thought dave would say, which is not even close.
i am because they see higher and said she would say is not even know that those two numbers. the numbers that what she thought you would say what she said are conoco six is what answer, but you're not even close. so you want to tell and i think now, well, i'd love to know how did you get to this number and so just to give me an idea how far apart so dave your numbers about five times bigger than answer so you know why i know the standard of living. she wants and i know what it cost to keep that not know no idea. i said more than i thought you so it would be easy listening do this with your spouse where you where you end up in hell. how is not just a nation.
i would guess the number is somewhere between really think they need to live probably, depending on other factors to remember savings isn't the only number without social security or without other sources of income or without like a pension or annuity.
the number does need to be a little harder so i would say between these two numbers erring on the high side, but somewhere in the middle where you need to be defending what your current lifestyle is now that yacht that i see i needed. notice to yachts out in the part about thanks for saying so, try don't see what you come up and i would also add this if you try at home. you need somebody that's skilled and wise in this area. counseling and coaching you know when you need.
obviously, as we been listening to dave and ann wilson talk with cj cagle today.
there's a lot that we need to rethink when it comes to our perspectives about retirement money and debt can be really a vicious downward spiral of hopelessness, but it doesn't have to be because god has called us to live in hopelessness. we have a duty as believers to manage our debt well for the good and the glory of god. in this conversation today has really shifted our focus to help us understand that doing practical things like making a budget and creating a plan for a money is something that can bring glory to god. we don't often think of it like that but it definitely can cj cagle has written a book called reimagine retirement and it's available over in our family life resource center. you can go to our firstname.lastname@example.org to order your copy online or you can call us in order at 1-800-358-6329 that's one 800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today watching God heal broken this is something that we've seen done in so many different ways particularly at the weekend to remember events. I have the president of fan life with me here today. David Robbins and David you had lots of opportunities to see God work in the midst of the brokenness that we see all the time that we can remember getaways is that people come in and the realities of life had drifted couples apart. That's what happens with life. The realities of life will never drift you closer together. They always push you further apart and really the simplicity of what we do will certainly offer up truth from God's word but also get people looking in the eye and having conversations that really just the speed of life and allow you to have an transformation happens and is the beauty of what happens when people take time away to focus on themselves as one encouraging we have this unique sale going on this week. It's a great opportunity to check out the locations of where we can's remember happening in the coming weeks and months and a car out time away for you and your spouse you will never regret it and no matter what chapter you're in your life currently getting time away to spend time with one another and focus on one another could be something that God restores and starts a new chapter. The human longing for in your marriage. That's right. And you can enjoy three days of romance and reconnection with your spouse. If you sign up between now and Monday, April 4. You'll get 43% off the regular price for you and your spouse you can head over to family life to a.com finds different locations about where the weekend to remember events are find a time. Sign up and watch God do amazing things in your marriage again you could find is that family life to a.com or you can give us a call at one 800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today in the particular weekend to remember events that are happening this weekend are in Branson, Missouri, and Chicago, Illinois. You could pray for those couples is there heading off to enjoy a refreshing weekend to remember together and watch God work in the relationships and that's gonna wrap things up for us on Monday. Dave and am listening and talking with Laura story.
She's written a book called so long, normal, pushing past the loss of our quote unquote normal. We hope you get the opportunity to worship with your family this weekend at your local church on behalf of David and Wilson.
I'm shall be added. See back next time for another edition of family life to me like today is a production of family accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most