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March 30, 2022 10:00 pm
What's God's idea about retirement? Author CJ Cagle help us construct a vision of retirement reflecting His values, priorities, and purposes.
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So here's a stat you don't hear every day. Okay, then it's us that you should hear every day. It's a really important is that now you ready you can teach me something right now you're gonna like this. Okay, I think 1/3 of people have nothing saved for retirement when it financially one third while the lesson third, 33% have nothing save for retirement. That's depressed, here's a question. How much do we have said for retirement.
More than that, more than zero. Welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most and Wilson Dave Wilson and you can find us if it we live today.com or on our family life, family life today. Family life. The funny thing is, you have no idea that I didn't even look at it but I hear our financial guy every two years. Talk about it every two years. It's like every six months now. Anyway the resort about this which we never talked about on family life today. This is a important topic.
We have Chris Cagle with us today who really Chris welcome the family today.
First of all thank for being here. Thank you. Good to be here, then you have spent your life. Sort of thinking about this, wrote a book obviously wouldn't Arbuckle reimagine retirement, but this wasn't like your life work you you work in IT. Most your life right. I did IT mainly in the financial services industry and I spent about 10 years working in social work in the juvenile court system right here in Florida is medevac so yeah yeah professional finance got that.
So how'd you get into this because I mean we read your book and your audience is going to love this conversation because it's so you know you know better neighbor how critical this conversation and say to this is helpful for every stage of life that you're in. If you're younger, don't think I need to think about that. How I wish I was. I was have been thinking and learning, and making decisions when is 20 right, not just when I'm 60. So yeah and this is a critical one. How do you get into this.
This is your life work. Pretty simple actually just got involved in the financial stewardship, financial coaching, counseling ministry, my local church.
I kind of gravitated little bit first for my own personal needs in terms of planning my future and working out my own stewardship plan with my own family and then just a desire to help others that led to seeing the need to start a blog and the blog could have led to the opportunity to write the book for BNH were going to find you at your blog.
Yes, retirement stewardship.com okay couple words you always see together so that I got the domain fairly easy, so retirement stewardship.com is the log also been married for almost almost 50 years 50 years. Next year congrats that you pretty cool will help us start this conversation, how should we start thinking I like to say start because hopefully we been thinking about retirement.
But how should we think about that you caught reimagine retirement explain what that means but the reimagine concept comes from this notion that all of us really regards of our age in this current culture bombarded with countable worldly view of retirement work long, work hard, save as much as you can and then retire to a life of just doing whatever you want to do leisure recreation. We see pictures of people on the seashore. People on the golf course people on the tennis court anywhere here in Florida and Florida's stock of the macro you villages the largest Inc. retirement center in the world. I guess that much are we from the villages not to log was actually looking for a motorcycle on Facebook marketplace and we ended up down there and I ever seen more golf carts in my life right it's probably good thing. What you get about 80 maybe 90, maybe goals might be a good idea lecture like noise as we drove in their there was this thought of this is the vision thing wrong or right about it was just as you drove in. I thought that's what retirement will you like yeah I think there's this constant pressure to how can we amass enough wealth to do all these things in order to create heaven on earth for cells God doesn't promise is heaven on earth. He promises heaven in eternity actually tells us that life is gone before trials and tribulations that doesn't mean that we can't enjoy things on this earth, and now certainly living in a nice community or having a pool to go to her tennis court placed in the sock taken the occasional trips. Not a bad thing, but in reimagine retirement. I'm trying to cut a recast that or ask my readers to reimagine what retirement would look like based on a God centered, Christ exalting, God honoring and glorifying view of retirement that would be informed by Scripture. That's really what goal okay so when life is so you know it's based on the principle of stewardship that we were created by God created in God's image, we belong to him and that everything that we have actually belongs to him and that we also belongs to him and that we would come to been given these things to steward in his behalf, and our mission is Christians as believers is to live our lives for him to glorify him to serve others for the furtherance of God's kingdom on this earth for as long as we live. There is not a hard stop at 65 or 70 or 75 and so you know the vision here is that God willing, as he enables us and gives us the gifts and the ability and resources to do so. We continue to live our lives for him as long as we can. Knowing that that will look different for someone who 70 than someone who's 30 right on not doing the same things.
Now my local church that I was doing all of the same things now at 70 that I did it. 30 but I'm doing a lot of the same things I was teaching in children's ministry. When I was 30 am teaching in children's ministry when I'm 70.
But I'm a little girl my class today. Right now, her first name is Allie. I taught Allie's mother's ministry to me. There's nothing more glorious than that more fulfilling than that for me personally to know that I not only at the opportune impact her mother's life in a small way as a Sunday school teacher, but now I have her daughter my class. You have become things God is called me to do and I think is called older people to do. I'm almost 70.
I don't how long I would be able to do that but I'm good to do it while it's today and while God gives me the ability to do so. So is it the right perspective. It is a God's perspective to have the thought that I will never retire. Yes, it's kind of a trick question.
You know a little new.
There's a lot more nuance here that I sometimes imagine is not a black-and-white thing so you know the rules retirement as I stop working for pay and I go on vacation for the rest of my life. The Bible gives us the freedom to stop working for. There's nothing in Scripture that prohibits that what the Bible doesn't seem to give us the liberty to do in Christ is to not live for Jesus for the rest of our lives and so part of mapping out a retirement managing a retirement why the subtext or subtitle of the book is planning a living for the glory of God is to plan out that last phase of life in terms of what it might look like.
Of how my going to serve Jesus more if I have the resources to be able to stop working full-time and don't have to work for pay and meeting the relieve that pressure and I have more time. How can I use those gifts and they truly are gifts from God to serve him or serve others more and glorify him while at the same time playing a game of tennis going to the pool going to the beach playing with the grandkids. I like to hike and fish.
I do it whenever I can, but if all I ever did was go hiking and fishing. I get pretty bored know God created me to do things to make things to work. The book is for me is an example of that. And you know I would say to your audience out there for somebody out there if you've about running the right book if you think it's going to serve people and lead people to Christ and lead people to a God glorifying, view of something then write about it. Sure your life and that way you can do it. One of the things that we thought in our 20s and when we are starting in our first career which still is our career ministry.
One of things I said from the pulpit. As I started our church 30 years ago is. We will never retire which in some ways is was your perspective. Like when I rest up working for the glory of God. It'll look different. But here's another part of that that was a bad part of that was. We don't need to save money really work until the very end so you know, obviously save a little bit, but you don't need to really be concerned because there won't come a day where you can just have to live off what you've saved. That was not good wisdom right and I want you to talk about that because you're much wiser about these things than me if you had a 20-year-old or 25-year-old even a 30-year-olds and by the way they are listening right now to you talk to them about that thought of what should they be doing as a young person's right financially to think about retirement financially and then even a mindset. You let me first speak to the kind of affirming part of that are positive part of that if you could imagine that there might be one. There is and that is that it goes to what should our attitude be toward money. What is the Bible say about money. It says we can't serve two masters.
We can't love God and money and that the love of money is the root of all evil. So if we spend our lives pursuing money and amassing large amounts of wealth we can so easily be tempted to make those things are God, such that our safety or security are joy our satisfaction, we start to look to those things. We start to look the money for those things and they become our semiarid home our security instead of God's love for us his mercy and his promise of provision you're a commercial I don't know who it was to finance commercial where people walk around. They have a number above their heads hit. What's your number yeah yeah yeah I saw that years ago I thought that has often been my security then number yeah I say it's God entity is, but there been times where I lay in bed. It's like I'm I'm anxious. I'm worried and it's about the number. If that number was had an extra zero or two RBI copy all good right now and I be saying all is because I'm trusting God I'm really trust in a bank account number is what you're saying right and that displaced trust is where we get into trouble and in in some ways it can even begin to become idolatrous yeah focus. If you think about what is idolatry is not just worshiping another God in some literal way it can be putting trust and faith in trying to find value and worth in something other than our creator and money in our society.
Unfortunately, money can be that thing for far too many people so trying to kind of speak against that or combat that especially within the Christian church is a good thing but yet we have to also bounce that off against the biblical wisdom that says that it's wise to assume that things are going to happen because the future is uncertain and it's wise in effect, to save for a rainy day and that starts very early in life and continues all the way through to the end. So if you're talking to 20 and 30-year-olds. What is your advice on that saving part. Are you saying right now is the time. Absolutely I can absolutely affect. If you look at some of the math and I speak to this a little bit my book, you save a little bit in your 20s or 30s. If you didn't save anything you could actually and assuming certain things hold which may or may not hold in terms of how the markets grow in income is you know things compound. You can actually end up with more money at age 60 that if you waited until age 30 or 40 and started saving a little bit a month and save that same amount every month until age 60. If you started it 20 saved until you are 30 and quit and didn't do anything you could possibly end up with more money because of the way the countdown here are the real problem getting our heads around exponential growth. We understand 3+3.39 right we don't understand that nine to the power of three is an exponential number right and how things compound that waste time and you Dennis by more than anybody when you look at.
I've seen it Dave Ramsey's material you look at compound interest when he said that a 20-year-old or 25 or €20 putting away five grantor 10 grand and just letting it compounded. Yes, it's crazy. It's likely why wouldn't we do that because there's a lot of people that are paying off college debt. Frank debts in their thinking. I don't have any extra money right really sated yeah in the book I use a word, and it's not a word that I came up with this a word that Ron blue well-known financial advisor.
The author himself much more well-known than I am a Kim of cold financial margins about creating mortgage in our lives, debt is a margin killer whether student loan debt load not too much on other installment loans, auto loans, mortgages, you know people here about people being mortgage rich house rich mortgage for what or vice versa and not having the margin to save is a dangerous place to be.
So getting out of debt dealing with that of minimizing debt is really tantamount to being able to create enough margin to do the other things a God. I think really wants to do with her money, which is to spend wisely give generously and save diligently doesn't mean save every penny and get your hands like I was talk about a minute ago but saving you know if you're into your 401(k) plan and they match 2% of your contribution, you know salary dollar for dollar did at least say that I get the free money you know if I walked in here and through hundred dollar bill on the table and said that yours would you pick it up. Oh yeah, probably would rival, that's effectively what your employers are doing when they hand you free money nonbiblical principle number one, don't say no to free money if it's given with integrity and with getting into the state that one of the things I would say is a pastor from the pulpit.
When we talk about money and by the way you know is your pastor talk about money, they think you're only but I use what I called the 10 1080 plan. I'm sure you've heard and that what you think of that you know 10. Give 10. Save 10 live on 80%. You give 10%, save 10%, live on 80%.
The assignment as I read plan very very reasonable plan, especially for young couples just starting out. You know what I tell people… They giving 10%, 10% is often referred to as the time of death, but the ties are law only give 10%. Don't give anymore. Don't give any less. I think it's in so many ways reflective of a biblical principle.
It's a good starting place because if someone that is making $20,000 a year for giving 20% of the gross income.
That's a lot of money you know some of the principles we see in the Bible about giving sacrificial proportional and cheerful, generous giving out of the heart right sacrificial in proportionality has a lot to do with how we I would skip so I think 10 1080 is a great place to start. But I tell people you know if you're if you give him 5% and you'd like to give 10.
Make that your goal forgiven 10%. Think about 15%. God loves a cheerful giver. He's made a lot of promises to us in his word that are always absolute, but he's made a lot of promises that seem to say that there is these blessings that accrue to people that have generous hearts live generous lives given themselves to others give their finances to others. The money just seems to come.
We were talking earlier with us and folks visiting here from what I think one of the earlier program and the young lady was talk about how she stepped out, took some risks. Wasn't sure where the money was going to come from, which was just doing what God called her to do.
Obeying God and his will for life in the money just kinda seem to come always going to happen. We can't assume on that or presume on that. We can always trust God's ago I'm trusting you to meet my needs as I obey you and step out men and here's what I would often hear is a pastor after talking about the 10 1080 or any kind of plan I often would hear if I did the 1010 I can't live on 80. There's no way so I do the 20 and 90 have you certain what they would say in a sense, it's like I'm not given as much because I just can't. So I give a little bit to guide and only average I think in church is about 2% yields its rent is given, and then I don't really have enough to save right now I'm gonna do that someday, what manner bills are high and we live in. And that's an impossible plan, 10, 1080, what would you say don't will in no insulation have to come to take them at their word. But I think I've been at this long enough to know that if I was to sit down with that person. And really, asked them to open the kimono if you will the checkbook. In other words, which is not particularly anxious to do but to really dig into their finances.
We might find where there is discretionary spending that could be reigned in.
There is maybe some debt that could be retired could free up market. What could be done to create margin within the confines of your current living situation and your current income. A lot of times I find situations where there just isn't any.
So now we have a different conversation about what we do to create more income.
Have you know maybe get acquired another skill take on another part-time job working to get more income or you know maybe you should consider downsizing you should consider selling that brand-new car that you got that big car payment on buying something that's more affordable and create margin. That way, those are very hard conversations to have, but there are times when there necessary as a coach/counselor mostly in the context of a local church always go at this with a heart of empathy, of kindness and patience and mercy and realize you know as Dave Ramsey likes to say I'm done stupid with my money just like everybody else. He likes that we use that word what what he likes, but I've done stupid things with my money. I've made mistakes.
I wish I could do over some of things and that's really my heart when I'm engaging with the younger person is to realize you know it's tough and there's so much pressure to buy consumer war and to war against that in our hearts and in our minds as Christians can be very challenging especially when young to start now and I think we all know that this topic can create a lot of conflict intermarry to you and it's a hot topic and I a lot of times you have a spender in a saver right S I I am the spec and it's not for me and this has created tension and advantages. Jesus say that I allow you to see head and I like to spend on other people that does create tension in our marriage but I think even as a couple having this conversation. When you're not pleaded about it when there's not already conflict on the table but just to talk about how do we feel about our retirement. Even if you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s like it's a great topic and it might be wise to have a counselor, a financial helper come in a mentor just to give you some tips some advice if it's hard to talk about it yourself and I would add this to you and this is nothing to do as the last step, but to really pray about it because God talks a lot in the Bible about money and it's a topic that he addresses, and so I think it's a great topic to talk to him about 10 and I would guess that Christie would know better than anybody, but I know this is a pastor and even as it just a Christ follower. If you want to know where your heart is money is a great indicator. We often settle and put her head in the sand and pretend it isn't, but we always say if you want to know what's important to me look at my calendar. Look at my money and it does reveal I can say anything I want about my walk with God. If it's not shown up in my calendar and that I'm spending time there or find that able to show you my checkbook and go look I'm generous and I give because it's an overflow, Augustine of my life. It's a great gut check. I know this program for people is going be like wow I can just said when you have a conversation our marriage. It's time to talk about this. It may lead to conflict. It may be one of the best conversations ever. Especially if you're younger or older, but man, if you made decisions now that were different than you been making because you want to be great stewardess.
Chris said that's the term, it could be a legacy changing moment in your marriage absolutely. As Christians, our mission doesn't stop at retirement and we should always be willing to actively pursue communicating the gospel in living out the Christian life beyond just the age of 65. Ultimately, all that we have when it comes to our time and our relationships and of course our money.
It belongs to God and the goal is to honor him and thank him in everything and that includes our finances as we consider retirement CJ Cagle has written a book called reimagining retirement.
We got copies over in our family life resource Center.
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