When Is It Okay To Have Sex?

So question for you, if you could go back to your teenage years and I knew you then, but I was so much older and mature, three years older. But you know, in high school, you think you're you're not even ever going to date somebody that much younger.

But so go back to like 13, maybe 14, 15 years old. Okay. There was no Internet then. But if there was and you were going to Google like a question like I got to get an answer to this. I'm just wondering what that question would be for you.

I didn't grow up in a Christian home. And so my first question, especially at that age, would have been, when am I ready or when is it okay to have sex? Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app.

This is Family Life Today. Well, it's interesting. While you were sitting in bed last night and I had my laptop out, I Googled that question. I bet a lot of teenagers are asking that question. So I just typed in, which I was thinking later, this is going to look weird on my history. But how can I know if I'm ready to have sex? You want to hear the answer?

First thing came up and I did it four different times. And every time this was the very first number one hit was deciding if you're ready to have sex is a big decision that's very personal. It's important to think it through and wait until you're sure you're ready.

And then it goes on. How do I know when I'm ready to have sex? Deciding to have sex is a big deal. It's an important decision that only you can make. A healthy sex life fits in with everything that you're about, including your personal values, your school career goals, your emotional physical risks you're willing to take.

Think about if having sex is something you really want to do or something you're being pressured to do. I'm not going to read you the rest. But guess where that comes from. I have no idea. Planned Parenthood.

That's the number one site that you're going to get an answer to that question. So based on what you read, what would a teenager think? I think you would think, oh, it's really up to me and maybe I'll talk to my parents. No, I'll talk to my friends and I think they're going to agree with me. I'm probably ready.

You know, again, it's just a nebulous answer that needs some help. And so let's bring somebody in the studio to help us get a better answer to that question. We have Sean McDowell back with us. Dr. Sean McDowell. And, you know, he's written a book called Chasing Love, which we've already had some discussion about, but it's perfect because it's sex, love and relationships in a confused culture. Sean, welcome back to Family Life Today.

Thank you for having me. Parents, I'm just going to say you need to get this book. Oh, yeah. There's a workbook with it. And Sean, like with the workbook, who would go through the workbook? Is this just teens alone in a group? Would parents do it with their teens? Yeah, the workbook comes along with a nine part teaching series that I taught video 10, 12 minutes kind of explaining some of the key ideas. So I've had youth groups go through it and contact me. I've had churches as a whole actually go through it. Someone sent me a text, like our entire, like, younger singles group, and he had it up on the screen. They're all watching it and discussing it together.

I've had parents just take kids through it individually and some homeschool groups have used it. Yeah, which is great. And, you know, I know you deal almost every day, right?

At Talbot School of Theology and at Biola. And then you also teach at a local high school where your kids are in that school, high school. They are, yeah.

Which is awesome. Yeah. So you're dealing with young people's questions all the time. I'm guessing you've heard the question I googled last night.

How do I know when I'm ready to have sex? And obviously you have a whole section on this question in the book. How would you answer that? Well, I'd probably answer it differently to a non-Christian than I would to a Christian.

Ooh, let's hear both. So if a non-Christian asks me that, I would probably say, so questions you make about sexuality are tied to who you are and the kind of person you want to become. Because having sex with somebody is the one thing you do that brings a human life into existence.

Do you agree that it's a big deal? Yes. So what do you think it means to love?

What is loving somebody? I'd probably go that route a little bit. I might ask this question. I'd say, okay, do you want to get married someday?

I'd start with kind of the end in mind. And most young people would still say yes. I'd say, okay, what do you want that marriage to be like? Do you want that person to be faithful to you?

Do you want that person to have had sex with a lot of people before they're with you? I think I would just start with the vision of the kind of person they want to become and then help them think through sexuality plays into that role. And then, of course, if a non-Christian was open to it, I would quickly bring it to God and say, you know, really, this is a question about is there a God and a designer for your life?

And the fact that you're asking this question, you realize a lot is at stake, and you can't really answer this question without having some assumption about if there's a God and how He wants us to live. So if you thought about those questions, that's probably the route that I would go if a non-Christian asked me that. I think with a Christian, the problem with that piece by Planned Parenthood, and I did all those searches when I was writing this book, and I knew when you asked that question. You did? Oh, yeah, I talk about it a little bit in the book itself. They started this new short answer thing by Planned Parenthood where they've targeted all the questions kids will type into Google, and then it sends it to Planned Parenthood about sexuality.

So I knew that's where it was going. This is a subjective kind of question that basically is summed up in if you feel ready, you're ready. So there's no moral component to that. There's no obligation to somebody else.

It's all about how you feel, which is exactly what a young person wants to hear. If a Christian asked me that, and they said, you know, when do I know when I'm ready to have sex or not? I would say, okay, let me ask you a question. Are you a follower of Jesus Christ?

Yes. What did Jesus say about what it takes to be ready? They might not know the exact answer, but they'd probably say, well, I guess He said you're ready when you're married. I'd say that's exactly right.

The scripture says God designed sex for one man and one woman who become one flesh for one lifetime. So your feelings are actually irrelevant to whether you're ready or not. I would have said at that time, but that's dumb. Why would God say that? She would have said that. Yeah, I would have. Yeah. To the Christian answer or like you get pushed back. We could role play if you wanted to.

Either. Like that's dumb. It feels like God's given us these desires. Why would we wait and why would God say no? Have you ever thought about how if God has given us these desires, like you said, and they are strong, good, beautiful desires, that maybe He knows something you and I don't know and has a better plan for it? Has that ever gone through your mind? Because God could have said like a guy and a girl like pinky swear and a kid pops out. He could have made sex a chore.

He's the one who designed it. Did you say pinky swear? A pinky swear. Do people pinky swear?

A kid pops out. That's better than the one you use. Okay, that's better than mine.

I might adopt that one. You say sneezing in the grocery aisle. There you go. Sneezing.

I'm pregnant again. I hate it when that happens. No, exactly. He could have made it a chore, but he didn't. And you admitted like God is the one who designed this.

So if He's all knowing and He gave us these strong desires and this amazingly beautiful thing called sex, has it ever crossed your mind that maybe He knows what's best for you and what's best for me in terms of how we experience it? That's good. And then I would have liked to have heard a story or consequence of it going bad. That would have been good for me because I remember the first time I had sex.

We're not going to talk about that. Because it wasn't you. Because it was tragic. I felt horrible afterwards. I wish somebody could have said that to me, but I wasn't open enough.

I would have probably Googled that to see. And I do know that I didn't come to Christ until my junior year in college. I'm a college athlete. I'm living the life and sort of not even knowing it, copying the sins of my father who was a womanizing sort of drinker. And here I am, I've come to Christ, and that was my first question to the man that discipled me who was involved with CREW. He was a student, actually, and married.

And I remember going to his house and having dinner. And first thought I had was I've never seen a marriage like this. They love each other.

Wow. It's obvious. And they weren't trying to display this. They're just being Bill and Corky. That was her name, Corky.

Bill and Corky Gremis. I'm like, I've never seen this. And so when I had a moment with Bill alone, I'm like, okay, I've got to ask you something. I've got to know, what's the Bible say about sex? Because I want to honor God with my life and my body. I'm guessing what I'm doing is not honoring God.

And he walked me through scripturally, you know, and said here's what he said. And just what you said, Sean, it was like, you know, God's the creator of marriage, and I've just seen a good one. So now I'm like, wow, marriage can be good. I'd never seen that in my home. And I'd actually never seen it in any Christian home.

But now I'm watching it. And so I wanted to know, what do they think? What does God think about this? And it was a defining moment because then when we started dating, I don't know, about six, eight months later, we were like, no, this is something we're saving to honor the covenant of marriage.

And it was a goal. And it was we want to protect and we want to do it his way. I think seeing a picture of what it could be made us really curious and like, oh, does God really know?

He knows us and loves us, so he must have something good in store. I love in the book that you said, have you ever imagined what the world would be like? If everyone lived the sexual ethic of Jesus, would the world be better or worse? That's a powerful statement in the book.

Yeah, talk about that a little bit. That is one of my favorite questions to ask young people. I'll ask young people who are not Christians, by the way, to get them to think about this as well. And of course, sometimes you have to clarify what Jesus' sexual ethic was. And essentially it was there's two ways to love God and honor people, in marriage and in singleness.

But if you're married, it's one man, one woman, one flesh, one lifetime. So I'll simply ask students, I'll say, okay, imagine everybody embraced that. Would the world be better? Would it be the same or would it be worse?

Let's start to write on the board what we think the answers are. You're such a good teacher. You're kind, but students start, you know, a student will go, okay, I guess there'd be no divorce. Kids would have a mom and a dad.

I go, that's right, because Jesus said that marriage is permanent. Then some kid will say, well, I guess there'd be no sex abuse, because Jesus talked about loving your neighbor was a part of the sexual ethic. And then some kid will say, I guess there'd be no pornography or victims of pornography. I guess there'd be no sexually transmitted diseases. There'd be no deadbeat dads leaving their wives for a trophy wife.

There'd be no crude sexual humor. On and on it starts to dawn on students, okay, wait a minute. The rules that Jesus gave is not to control us. He's not, you know, some big cosmic killjoys, people say. It's actually for human flourishing. It's for our best.

And that's why I'll take it back. That's why David says in Psalms 19, he rejoices in the law of the Lord. That it's actually the law. Now, David had a hard time following it, but when he was inspired, he knew that God's laws brought freedom. That's why Moses writes in Deuteronomy 10.

He says, Love, Lord God, with your heart, your soul, your mind, and your strength, and follow these commandments which I am giving you for your good. They're objectively for our good. So what the two of you were talking about a minute ago is kids will not really start to sacrifice following their feelings and urges until they have a bigger vision of what marriage and relationships should be like. That's why, as an athlete, all of us who are athletes in different capacity, you suffer for something when you have a bigger goal. So part of what the church has done is said, Sex is bad.

Don't do that. And we haven't given kids a vision of, No, here's why marriage is beautiful. Here's why biblical love is the greatest experience you can have. Then when they have a bigger vision to it, it oftentimes gives us the strength to resist some of the lies and temptations in the culture in which we live. Now take us into your home. How do you teach these kind of things to your kids? I can see you in the classroom. Me too. I can see the board.

And when does it start? Yeah, because I'd love to know how you did that and sort of model for parents. How do we talk about these kind of things with our kids? What age? What kind of topics? Sex ed starts the moment a kid comes out of the womb.

I mean, think about it. The way you touch a baby, even appropriately, is learning them to become comfortable with their bodies. Affectionate touch. The tone that we use.

The way you treat somebody of the opposite sex. Kids are learning from day one. Now, how we have conversation varies. So we're driving a car, and my son, who's eight, my daughter made a statement because she's 14 and they were having a discussion about abortion, and she said something and she goes, Dad, what's abortion? And I think a lot of parents would say, Oh, don't ask. I can't believe it.

And my dad would train me. I'm like, here's an opportunity. So in my mind, I'm like, how do I explain this in a way that's appropriate to an eight-year-old? I said, well, bloody abortion is one of the great tragedies of our day. I said, many women, for different reasons, sometimes decide they don't want to keep and deliver the baby that's inside of them. Dad, why would they do that? I said, well, I walked through, here's three or four different scenarios. He goes, how do they do an abortion?

My wife's like, don't explain it. Inside, I was like, I'm the dad, so I err on the side of going, well, you've seen superhero movies where people die. You've seen that, okay? You've seen people killed. I said, well, sometimes that happens to the unborn, but keep in mind, they can't protect themselves. They're inside a mother. It's a human being, so it's a tragedy. We gotta have so much compassion for these moms who feel like that's the choice they have to make. But, buddy, that's a human being.

We gotta protect, too. And then he's like, okay, can we watch this when we get home? You get these moments. So the main way I try to teach it is just sometimes I pause the TV. I don't do it too much because it'll drive my kids nuts, but we were watching the Flash TV show, and I'll pause it now and then and go, okay, I just gotta say something, and they're like, dad, whatever. I'm like, I know, but listen.

Okay, we'll keep watching it. Over at the dinner table sometimes when we're driving, I just look to have consistent, regular conversations with my kids about these things, because that's where I think truth is really passed on in conversation. So I'm looking for opportunities to arise. A lot of people in those opportunities come up about sex.

They want to divert it the other direction. I'm like, great, you're interested. Let's talk about it.

What does this mean? What are we afraid of? And part of what that does is it just shows kids, God, design your body. Our worldview applies to this.

We're not ashamed of this. This is a good, beautiful, okay thing. And if you don't know the answer, you just go, God, that's a really good answer. Can you give your dad some time to think about this and come back to you?

Because I want to give you an answer that's helpful. Every kid's going to be like, that's fine. And then you think about it. I've called my dad a couple times. I'm like, dad, wait a minute.

I'll be out of this. Then I go back to my kids, and that's just a part of the process. But you've got to be intentional. You've got to be consistent. You've got to model it with your kids.

And you've just got to ask a lot of questions. Did your conversations change a little bit as your kids got older? Because ours did. I think before they were 12, we were kind of instructing, teaching, talking. And then when they became teenagers, we started asking them a lot more questions.

Did you do some of that? Or were you always asking? I've always been a question asker. So I encourage my kids to ask questions. One of the things I say to my son, because he's eight now that I tuck him in, whenever I remember, I'll say, you know, buddy, you can ask your dad anything. Because studies show kids, a big reason kids leave their faith is not doubt.

It's unexpressed doubt. So I want my kids to feel free to ask questions. I'm not afraid of this.

I invite this. Let's have a conversation about issues of sexuality as well. So I've always kind of invited that. But things are pretty black and white until the age you said about, you know, like in seventh graders, it's like, you believe this, you're dumb.

You believe that, you're smart. And then they start learning abstract thinking as you move 12, 13, 14, 15, you can have the more sophisticated conversations. Yeah, I know that for us, Ann was great at talking about sex as a normal part of a conversation. I'm not saying every day, all the time. But if they had questions and comments.

Sure. We tried, and again, not saying we did it perfectly, but we tried to create an atmosphere where that topic was no more weird than talking about sports or the news or really anything. And I remember one guy said to us, one of our son's friends said, man, I figured it out. The equation to raise virgins is talk about sex all the time. I'm like, what? He goes, every time at your house, you guys somehow had a conversation about sex. So I guess you talk about sex in your home, your kids grow up, and they stay pure. And I'm like, I don't know about that. But it did highlight that when he was at our house, he was like, wow, that's unique.

The Wilsons are okay talking about this. And again, not that we brought it up all the time, but I can remember doing the same thing with the TV. I'd hit the pause button, and it got to the point where the boys were like, seriously, Dad, we're going to get another lesson based on something that's on TV. But it was seizing those moments.

Hopefully those lessons were less than two minutes to grab it. But here's another question. When your kids push back, and maybe you haven't had this, but I'm sure you've seen this, if they push back against what you're teaching them or they start living differently than what you're teaching and hoping they'll do, how does a parent respond? Well, that depends on how they push back, because there's a kind of push back that's like I'm being rude and rebellious and pushing back out of disrespect or a kind of push back that's like, you know, I just don't know that I buy that, and here's why. So I've had conversations with my kids that I've had to apologize, and it didn't go the way I wanted to for sure, but I haven't had them push back rebelliously and angrily. And some of that is because of the relationship that we have. But I've certainly had my son and daughter say things like, I don't know if I see it that way. And I'll go, okay, tell me about that.

I'm really curious. Now, oftentimes, I'll just ask a lot of questions, and my daughter's like, what's the point? I mean, she bought me a mug recently that says, I don't need Google.

My dad knows everything. That's great. I think it was a compliment. That's how I'm going to take it.

It is a compliment. But she's like, I can't even argue anything with you. I said, I'm not trying to argue with you.

I want to know what you think, and I'm just asking you questions so we can have a conversation. So I have to moderate these things, because I don't want to go into debate mode. And I just remind myself, I'm like, okay, it's okay if you differ from me, but know why, and let's make sure it lines up with Scripture. And hearing you answer that reminds me of the last time you were on. We asked you about your rejection of sort of the faith. You were going on a journey and how your dad responded. That's what I remember from that conversation, too. It sounds similar. Talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, it sounds like you're doing a very similar thing. Look, I get to interact with a lot of atheists and skeptics and ex-Christians over and over again. You hear a common story of a lot of hurt or just this fundamentalist background that doubt was terrible, and if you questioned things, it would damage our relationship.

Not every time, but many times you hear that. And my dad, as much of an apologist and conservative as he is, went out of his way to communicate to us that his love for us was not dependent whatsoever on what we believe. So this time that you're referring to, I think I was 19 years old and just told my dad I wasn't sure that I was convinced that Christianity is true. And I'm sure many people listening know he's written 150 books and spoken to tens of millions of people defending the Christian faith, and his son's like, yeah, I'm not sure I'm convinced. And he didn't freak out.

He just was like, essentially goes, son, that's great. You can't live off what I think is true. You've got to know for yourself what you think is true, and your mom and I are going to love you no matter what. And that just deflates so much of the concern and the anxiety that kids have, and I try to do that with my kids. My kids have said stuff at times like, what if I believe this or did that almost like they're testing me? And I'll just say, you know that would never change my love for you.

That's silly. Come on. Almost in jest like that to make sure they know that that relationship would never change. I know that we've written a book called No Perfect Parents, and in the book we had- Hey, I just pulled it up.

Oh, yeah. We had our adult sons at the end of some of the chapters write in terms of like just tell us in this, in your words- Tell the reader. Tell the reader what worked and what didn't work or what you appreciated- That's great.

Or wish your parents would have changed. It was pretty interesting, you know, when we got their manuscripts back. Yeah, I'm sure. We didn't tell them, you write anything you want.

If we were horrible, write it, you know. And our oldest son who is always a thinker, he's an engineering brain- Analytical. Very analytical, always had questions from day one.

I just pulled it up and I thought, I want to make sure I get this right. You know, he's the first one that wrote and it just reflections. And he said, I probably would have become an atheist if you had shut down my questioning of things like young earth creationism when I was in high school and college. Wow. I didn't even know that. Yeah, we didn't know it until- That's amazing. I mean, it was such a beautiful thing to read. And I do remember many conversations, but even that specific one. And I'm like, wow, great question.

There's several different opinions on that. Here's like, you know, never knowing that it could have pushed him if I would have been the dad that said, you can't question, you can't doubt. You're a pastor's son.

This is how it goes. It was so interesting when he was maybe four, I think. You know, we're reading the Bible. We're telling Bible stories in this one night before he's going to sleep.

He says, Mom, wait a minute. So doesn't it say that we aren't allowed to murder or kill in the Ten Commandments? I said, yeah, that is true. He goes, so we just read tonight about David chopping off Goliath's head. And that's okay. Like, why is that okay? But the Bible says, he's four.

Tell him what you said. Wow. It's like, hey, Dave. Exactly.

She got his dad. But there's a part of me that felt fearful. Like, man, this kid, automatically as parents, as a mom, I go into that fear zone of like, oh, no. That's natural. And Dave walks in and he says, yes. Like, I'm so glad.

And that's what he said. CJ, what a great, deep question. Man, you're smart. And let's talk about that because those are great questions. Never feel ashamed to ask those kinds of questions. Yeah.

And you know what? That tension of like him knowing my mom is concerned for me and my dad who's like, but it's going to be okay. That's a good tension for a kid.

So don't beat yourself up. Your kids know my mom loves me and is feeling that pain with me. I told my mom when I was questioning things and my dad was like, son, that's great. Seek truth. I love you.

Glass is 99% full. My mom was like shattered. And I remember thinking, guy, this is my life.

Like, why does it bother you so much? And then about five years ago when my kids were in deep pain, I thought back on that and was like, now I get maybe what it would have been like for a mom maybe to feel that. Yeah. I think five days ago I was with a group of probably 13 moms. They all had teenagers. And the best way I can describe them is they were gripped in fear of what the culture was doing to their kids.

What would you say to those moms and even dads that are feeling that fear? We will hear how Sean McDowell answers that question in just a minute. You're listening to Family Life Today with Dave and Ann Wilson. They've been talking today with Sean McDowell, who has written a book called Chasing Love, Sex, Love, and Relationships in a Confused Culture. And it's a book we're making available this week to Family Life Today listeners. If you can help support the ongoing outreach of Family Life Today, help us reach more people more often with practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and their family. When you make your donation, request your copy of Sean McDowell's book.

Again, it's called Chasing Love, Sex, Love, and Relationships in a Confused Culture. The book is our thank you gift to you when you make a donation. And you can donate online at familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. On behalf of those who listen to Family Life Today on this local radio station or who listen to it as a podcast, thank you for making programs like this possible. Let me just say, if you are listening to Family Life Today as a podcast, if you can leave us a review, that helps us spread the word about this program to others and will allow more people to benefit from the ministry of Family Life Today.

So leave a review wherever you get your podcast. Now, let me ask you a quick question. When was the last time you spent some focused, concentrated time thinking about what the Bible teaches about marriage or about parenting? You know, we can find ourselves in small group studies where we're learning lots of good things about Bible study or about prayer.

All of that's good, but from time to time, we need to be pulling back and saying, how do we renew our minds when it comes to our marriages and raising our kids? Here at Family Life, we have created resources designed to help small groups have some compelling conversations together about marriage and family. We've got resources like The Art of Marriage, The Art of Parenting, Dave and Ann Wilson's Vertical Marriage series.

We did a series on my book Love Like You Mean It. All of these resources right now we're making available with a special offer to Family Life Today listeners. If you want to buy any of these resources to use with your small group, use the promo code NewYear2022 and you'll save 25% off any of our small group resources. You can check all of this out on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. But if you're in a small group or you've been thinking you need to form a small group, here's a great way to kick things off and get everybody focusing on marriage and parenting and save a little money in the process. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.

Use the promo code NewYear2022 for the savings. Just a minute ago, Ann Wilson was asking today's guest, Sean McDowell, about parents who are fearful and how he would counsel them in the midst of their fear. Here's Sean's answer. I would say a couple of things. I would say the Bible says perfect love casts out fear. Perfect love casts out fear. The only thing we can control is how much we love our kids. When my kids became teenagers, I learned very fast. I cannot control them the way I could when they were younger, where they go as a whole as they get older, what they believe.

My control is gone and minimized in many ways. The older they get, I can build a relationship with them, I can pray for them, and I can unceasingly love them. So never underestimate the power of a praying and a loving mom. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry. Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.