Making Your Marriage Better than Your Honeymoon

I never understood why my parents divorced.

They were Christians, quote unquote, and how could you not make it work if you know Jesus? I'm sitting at home. We're pastoring.

We're two years in. I got to choose my wife. I said, now I know, because I think I could be without her. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app.

Our focus is family life today. So you've probably done hundreds, if not thousands, of weddings. You've officiated... I don't know if I've done thousands.

It feels like thousands sometimes. And every single time I feel like when you come home, you say the same thing. Do you know what I'm going to say? Yeah, I'd love to say this at the wedding, but I would never do another wedding if I said what I'm really thinking.

And it's like this. You know, you're looking at this couple, and they're so in love, and they're so excited. And you want to say, there could become a day where you scream at your husband and say, the biggest mistake of my life was marrying you. Like my wife said six months after our wedding. I want to say something like that.

Like, hey, what you feel right now is going to drift, or it will go away at times. Never at a wedding would you say that. No. You say it's going to be awesome. It's going to be wonderful. But we all know the reality is it's going to really... they're going to struggle. And it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. And so we've got a couple in the studio today that wrote a book about that struggle, right?

I mean, it's about it. And by the way, he's a pastor as well. Kevin and his wife Marsha Meyers from Atlanta, Georgia. Well, some are from Atlanta, right? Right. Exactly.

12 Stone Church. I'm guessing you've done hundreds, if not almost thousands, of weddings. It feels like it. And it's not unusual for me to say, hey, we love the love they're displaying. We walk away and say this is going to be awesome watching them crash.

It's going to fade like a flower, baby. But the truth is, have you ever said that at a wedding? No.

As the officiant? No. And we didn't believe it about ours either. Of course not. Ours was going to be different.

We were going to be different from every single couple. Yes. Yeah.

But let's introduce you a little bit. You've been married 40 years? We are hitting 39 years, so we're right on the cusp of four decades. Four kids. Four. Right?

And four grandkids. Yes. Yes. Oh, they are amazing. They are fun, aren't they?

Yes. They put a spark in life. Well, welcome to Family Life Today. We're really glad to have you here. Thank you. We're honored.

Thank you. And you've written a book called The Second Happy, Seven Practices to Make Your Marriage Better Than Your Honeymoon. And as I read through it, I mean, you really get into what we just talked about. And as a pastor, I'm sure you know this, thousands and thousands of weddings and marriages start well. Do they all struggle?

Do you think they all hit? And it may not be a big struggle, but some kind of struggle. We almost overstated it by saying, if you're in the 1% who somehow has escaped the after the honeymoon experience of this fading and wondering if this was not one of the biggest mistakes of your life. If you're in the 1%, we literally wrote in the book, then just give this book to somebody else. But for the 99% of us who somewhere deep in the dark night of our soul are very aware that we probably made a huge mistake three months in, six months in, even two years in. And that's, that's the norm. I think it helps people to hear that because they don't believe it because they're in love and it's awesome. But eventually it hits everybody.

But what about you guys? Did that happen to you? Uh, yeah, I would say definitely.

Just almost right away. We kind of butt heads. I'm a little stubborn and he's very, um, forceful. Wow. I don't know if in the book or in all the interviews we've been doing the last couple of months, you use the word forceful. Marcia is coming out. I'm liking this.

Thanks, Ann. I just feel comfortable. I think you guys are going to have a conversation after this interview about that. No, seriously, what do you mean forceful and stubborn? Well, forceful, he knows what he wants. He knows what's right in his own mind and you're not going to change that. He's a leader.

He's a leader, most definitely. And he can out talk you or at least he can out talk me. And me, my defense is stubbornness.

No matter what you say, no matter how much sense you make, I'm still going to dig my heels in. Do you shut down? Yeah. Okay. So you don't fight back, but you'll shut down.

Like I'm not going right. Yeah. Yeah. More of a passive aggressive kind of a stance.

Yep. So what happened? I mean, was there a crisis point or just a, the way it just sort of drifted or what? Well, that's how I discovered she was stubborn. I married this incredibly delightful, godly, awesome, beautiful woman, highly talented, gifted. And then I got married and discovered that she's nicer to everybody than she is me.

Now I can own some of this, but you remember one of the crisis. So we're in ministry, which means we have to be hospitable. So we're at a church.

I being more the extrovert, her being more the introvert, we would literally be at the church and I'm meeting people and I say, Hey, why don't you come on over? I don't mean later. Why don't you follow us to the house? No. Yeah.

And don't be so helpful to her around you. And you have little kids. No, not at that point. So you didn't even have kids. No. I demonstrated a great art of serving and love and kindness as a pastor toward my wife.

It was awesome. Yes. Meanwhile, in my head, it's like, no, don't do this. We don't have any food. Our house.

I remember laying things on the floor and they're still sitting there like, no, it didn't matter. No. And I'm thinking, what's wrong with you? Yeah.

We're supposed to be hospitable. So I would use scripture and big biblical thoughts against her. Oh, so in other words, he's manipulating you. Wow. And that's a good way of putting it. This is why it's good to have a couple interviews, isn't it?

Do you know why she knows this so well? Yes, Dave. I've been there. We've lived your life. We've had a similar conflict with that. But the question is, did it get deep? I mean, that's a fight maybe, but did it get, I mean, we, we got to a point where it was, we don't want to be together. We were resentful of one another. Definitely. Yeah.

We tell them the grocery store. We think that triggered it. And what's weird is it's like a culmination because we don't remember exactly what we were fighting about, but we were like getting groceries. What year? I mean, how many years married?

Probably two years in. All right. And we just started fighting in the grocery store. Hey, that's my pastor over there with his wife. We made a scene. We made a scene in the freezer section. And we weren't too far from our house. So he just left. And I finished getting the groceries and getting them home. So you didn't walk home.

Yeah. You know, I let her dry. I just walked out of the store, walked home and literally I sat at the door at home and I said, I never understood why my parents divorced. They were Christians quote unquote.

And how could you not make it work? If you know Jesus, I'm sitting at home. We're pastoring.

We're two years in. I got to choose my wife. I said, now I know because I think I could be without her.

I think I could be divorced. Did you say that to her? I said that to me.

Yeah. I don't think I said it to you. I do think I treated you that way. We were on a rough road from then forward. And I think so many listeners are hearing this thinking, yes, we have been there.

I think some are thinking, and we don't know how to get out. I like that we're going to talk about that today and how you guys got out of that. We've talked about it. I mean, this is the very, very thing we talk about at The Weekend to Remember.

We've been speaking for that conference for over 30 years. You know, there's this drift. You're either headed toward oneness is what we say, or you drift toward isolation. And I tell you, when you go there and you start hearing us talk about that, you're like, we're living that. But by the end of the weekend, we're like, we can help you get out. We can show you the path to oneness.

So here's the thing. If you're listening right now, you can sign up for A Weekend to Remember. It'll probably be in your city. And if you sign up right now, familylifetoday.com, you get half off. That's a great deal. Starts Friday night.

It ends on Sunday right around noon. And I'm telling you, God literally saves marriages. Go to familylifetoday.com, sign up right now and watch God take you on a path to oneness. And keep listening because Kevin and Marsha are going to help us learn how we can get it out of that rut. Yeah, Marsha, did you feel the same thing Kevin was feeling? Like, I... Yeah, he's forceful, forceful, which creates highs and lows in his personality.

So I'm more steady. And so my thought was, oh, this isn't good. You know, it was probably half the intensity of his. But for me, definitely the final thought was, I don't want to get a divorce, but I don't, I don't know where to go next. Like, that would be where we would end up if we keep going on this path.

I think I was at the point, that same kind of thing where I was losing hope that it could be good again. That is so defining. Because I realize if we divorce, I'm out of ministry, I forfeit my calling.

I don't know how to integrate who God said he is with all his promises and grace in our life. So we're just going to settle for misery. I think a lot of marriages settle for misery.

Me too. And they endure it. Yeah, they do. And some of them, while we have kids, will endure it for our kids. And by the other end, it's one of the reasons I think there is this huge drop off when you become empty-nester and the like.

Your kids are the reason you stayed in to some degree. And so, so many get divorced as soon as their kids leave. And it's still devastating even for their adult kids.

Oh, yeah. Or they'll wait until their high school even. They lost the love a long time ago.

They're now just mechanically in the motions. And it's a very disappointing life. And we're not judging that. We get it. We all get that.

Oh, no, we actually were confesses. Oh, absolutely. Yes.

So you're there, though, at two years. I mean, this is early. What a gift. Right?

Everybody couldn't do that. Yeah. I mean, you get there quick.

Many people are like, we're still in our honeymoon at two years. But you are like, oh, boy, this. So you got to talk.

How'd you get out? I know some of it maybe relates to the zones you talked about in your book, which is a great way to explain this. But is that what happened? You get the A, the B. You can talk about it. I don't know. I don't know your zones.

I play zone defense, but I don't know your zones. It's not too dissimilar, Dave. We didn't know this back in the day. So we'll talk from today's experience of a development. But we think that you have to break the quit cycle.

That's the first chapter. It's what we talk about. Right.

And what we mean is everything in life, every endeavor, every relationship, every project, every job doesn't matter what it is. Every pursuit, everything you buy, it goes through three zones. A zone, B zone, C zone.

So the A zone is full of promise. That's the honeymoon face. That's when everything is awesome.

That's the new car. That's the first day at school. That's the first day at the job. That's when you get married.

Everything is beautiful. You know what that is in Detroit? It's training camp. You know, actually it is.

Everybody thinks the Lions, this is the year. Every single team thinks that. And you have to believe that or you don't have the grit to engage. You have to have hope on the other side.

You have to believe something's possible. Yeah. So the A zone is familiar to all of us. Yeah. But then of course every A zone gives way to the B zone and the B zone is full of problems.

This is not transforming. People don't have to take notes right now. It's not like, Oh, I never knew that. We're just putting words to familiar experience that most people didn't expect to happen in their marriage. Yeah. And so the B zone is full of problems and you live in those problems long enough and you start losing hope and we pause right there and we just put at the bottom and you tend to want to accuse them.

You want to quit. And if we want to talk about that more here together, we can. And you guys were there a little bit. Like take us back to the grocery store. You've walked home and Marsha you're like, Oh, I'm going to drive home without him because he's left. Right.

So many couples are there. People quit on little things before they quit on big things. So we might not have quit on marriage, but we quit on the things that would build a marriage in that fight in the store. I quit honoring her in the hospitality, invite somebody over to the house.

I started with my perspective rather than hers. I couldn't hear her. I thought, what kind of pastor's wife is this? She can't invite people over.

I didn't realize she was actually caring about people. We didn't have food. The house wasn't ready.

We weren't doing a good job caring for people. If you can get to the other side, but people quit on these things. And so you end up in the cycle of A zone, B zone, Q zone, and then people chase A zones. So they have a life of shortcut and you do that long enough.

Meaning they just want to get back to you. You chase A zones. So people and relationships, people and careers, they, and educational pursuits, they fill in the blank. The problems are too much for them to endure.

The hill climb is too demanding. So you Q zone. Right.

And again, most of us Q zone on small things. Usually start all over again in another relationship or another career or another, you know, something that makes them feel good again and think, Oh, this will be better. This is going to work. And often you do that while you're still in the B zone of the first relationship. Or I've done this. You ever done this? You're in your car. You love it.

It's awesome when you got it. And then you see another car go by and you're like, that's the car. Really want you do that in relationships. You do that with churches. You do that. Well, Dave, we did it because I'm thinking we're in the B zone and a troubled marriage. And so what do I do? I pour my life into my kids. That feels great.

They're young. I'm going to pour up that they're filling me up and you're pouring. You go to the A zone of your career. Like I'm building this church. This is amazing.

I'm getting applauded and accolades from my congregation more than at home. So I think you're right. We escape into other things that will fill us up. And it doesn't occur to us and that the B zone requires B zone muscle.

There is a muscle required to grind through something to get to a C zone that's full of payoffs and everybody wants the hope fulfilled, but to get there has a cost and endurance, a demand. And so for us, we had just had to figure out in marriage, what does it look like for us to exercise B zone muscle in the midst of problems and to care enough to get beyond quitting so that this marriage has hope and possibility. In other words, you talk about the vow, how many marriages have you done?

Hundreds, maybe thousands. That vow was easy to say. B zone muscle is making good on that vow.

Yeah. And you know, when you're up there as the pastor at the wedding and you're setting up the vows, at least I think this I'm looking at the congregation or the wedding families and friends thinking many of them are going at the vows. Cause they're like, yeah, we said those, they have no idea what they're saying.

And they know they have no idea how hard the B zone is going to be to keep them. Well, Dave, remember we were at one wedding and they decided to continue with the vows and add their own. And so this guy's up there just, oh, he's flowery with his speech. He's like, I vow that every day I walk in the house, I will kiss you and hug you and notice you.

I vow. I mean, he was getting so specific and I'm like, stop. I literally, I wasn't doing that wedding.

It was in our church though, in our chapel. And I literally had to hold myself from like snickering out loud, which is how, I mean, how terrible is that? That would be the worst thing ever.

But it was such a reality check. Like you have no idea what you're saying right now. Cause it's going to be so hard. Yes. So talk a little bit about that B muscle.

How do you develop that? Let's tell the bagel story. Sometimes you have a story that marks your marriage and resets it and you need a picture. So this B muscle for us, the freezer in the grocery store. Now you get bagels. Yeah. As soon as I say, as soon as I say, David, you're going to, Oh yeah, I get it.

We all get, everybody's going to get this. It's just, we would work out together. And on the way to the workout club early in the morning, we would stop at the bagel shop. And so we were working out.

Exactly. And so we had to have a reason to work out. So we'd split this little ham and egg kind of bagel thing. And then this cinnamon bagel with this, what was it? Honey almond schmear.

Now listen, that's, that's way too much for one person and then work out. So we have it cut in half. So when we'd order, we just say, please cut that in half. Now me being the husband, love my wife, I'm here to serve, you know, wash your feet, biblical concept. So when they call our name, Meyers, I go up to the counter cause I'm going to serve her.

I'm going to get it. The problem is when I get to the counter, I have a dilemma immediately. Cause I look down at the cinnamon sugar bagel with honey almond schmear and they cut it in half and nobody can cut it in half properly. One is always bigger than the other. It's got more schmear.

It's got more cinnamon. I immediately noticed that one half is better than the other. So I'm in a dilemma between the counter and the table. I'm going to place one on her plate. Which half do I give her? And it's driving me nuts cause I'm immediately aware that I want the better half of the bagel and my marriage vow is giving her the better half of the bagel. And that became a defining illustration for us of what it meant for, at least me, for me to love my wife. I have to give her the better half of the bagel.

And when I don't, I'm quitting. And it's that small. It's always that small. What's the larger half of the bagel for you, Marcia? Are there times that you've thought like, oh, I need to do this and it's difficult, but I'm choosing to build that muscle.

Definitely. I can give one example of he had this pullover. It was like a half zip and he loved that pullover more a lot. Almost to the point that I wouldn't have minded it getting lost, but he... Are we supposed to get this honest? I know.

I always tend to get a little too deep. But anyway, he did lose it and he was so upset and we looked everywhere for this half zip shirt. And like I said, for me, it was more like, well, you know, he's worn it enough, but I knew he loved it. He had gotten it as a gift from a conference that he had been at.

So what I did was I went to the people who did the conference and asked them if they had any more and secretly bought him a couple more. That's so nice of you. Yeah, I know.

And so I'm not one to make a lot of efforts, but I thought, oh, you know, that I would. And I knew he loved it. And so that's what I did. That's good because that's a great example of you didn't necessarily love that he'd been wearing this all the time, but you were choosing as an act of your will to do something that would serve... Exactly.

...that you would really appreciate. Yeah, that's good. Hey, do this. Talk to the couple that's in the B zone and they are seriously considering quitting. Like right now, I mean, they're listening and they're like, okay, this is deep. I'm really discouraged. I've been there for weeks or months or maybe years. I'm thinking about quitting.

I can't even imagine a C zone where we could be happy again, the second happy. What would you say to them? Let me say a couple of things. First of all, friend of ours, John Maxwell, has said everything worthwhile is uphill. So you just got to embrace the weight of that truth. You want worthwhile things.

You want a marriage that works. Secondly, you're not alone. Just by virtue of this conversation, Dave, that you and Anne are having with us is to remind people you're not alone on this journey. Many have hit that place of wanting to quit and have moved on.

So you're not alone. Third, because you're not alone and others have won, borrow their hope. These principles and practices and what you are teaching people help people wake up to there are steps and process. You're not going to win it in a week, but if you'll do the right things next week, you get a better second week. And you do that again, you get a better third week and you wake up to falling back in love. You find a second happy that you lost after the honeymoon and it's doable. I think for so many people, the goal of a rich, mutually satisfying, happy marriage, it's what all of us long for.

The question is, do we know how to get there? And I think it's in the discouragement of not knowing how to get there, that a lot of couples just give up hope. And what Kevin and Marsha Myers have been talking about today with Dave and Ann Wilson is that there is a second happy that is available to all couples.

If they can point themselves in the right direction, get the help they need. It's there for you. In fact, Kevin and Marsha have written a book called the second happy seven practices to make your marriage better than your honeymoon. It's a book we've got in our family life today resource center.

You can order a copy from us online at family life today.com or call 1-800 FL today. And then let me also mention the weekend to remember marriage, get away for couples for more than four decades. There have been hundreds of thousands of couples who have come to these weekend getaways and found the help and the hope they're looking for in their marriage. Wherever you are in your marriage, maybe you're in a good marriage and you just want it to be better.

Or maybe you're in a hurting marriage and you're looking for hope. The weekend to remember will walk you through a process to help align your marriage with God's design and help point you in the right direction as a couple. Right now we have a special offer for family life today listeners. You can register for an upcoming weekend to remember marriage getaway and save 50% off the regular registration fee.

We've got several dozen of these events happening this spring in cities all around the country. Go to our website family life today.com. There's a link there with information about where and when these getaways are being hosted in a city near where you live. You can also register online this week and save 50% off the regular registration fee. Or if you have any questions we can answer for you. Call us at 1-800 FL today. Again, register online at family life today.com. Call with any questions 1-800-358-6329.

That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life and then the word today. Plan to join us this spring at one of our upcoming weekend to remember marriage getaways. Now tomorrow we're going to talk about how important it is for couples to know how to fight fair. I mean conflict is going to happen in every marriage.

What we have to learn how to do is how to manage conflict in a way that honors one another and gets us to some kind of healthy resolution. Dave and Ann Wilson will talk with Kevin and Marsha Myers about that tomorrow. Hope you can join us. On behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.