So growing up in church, and I didn't go every week, but my mom made me go. And when I went over years, I can never remember anything being said from the pastor at church about sex except bad stuff.
Like he scared you. I honestly do not remember ever hearing anything, but it's something you don't do until you get married, which is a good message, obviously. But I don't remember ever hearing a positive message about sex. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.
And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. The only thing that I heard from my mom was that I don't do anything until you're married.
I never wanted to do anything and I didn't even want to go on my honeymoon. And I remember thinking as a 14, 15-year-old, like, I don't think that's going to be me because I already have that desire, what's wrong with me? Yeah. I mean, whether it's from your parents or from the church or wherever, it's like, okay, what is God's perspective on sex? And it's actually unbelievably good.
He created it. It's an amazing thing. And so let's talk about that, because as parents, we need to be able to communicate that to our kids as well as the dangers. But we err on danger, danger, danger. Oh, we're so afraid. Yeah, we're giving our kids, don't do this because the Bible says this and this will happen. But you're right. We seldom talk about the goodness of God in this great gift that he's given us.
I mean, the truth is, we know this today that God wants married Christians to have sex. And we've got Dr. Beth with us back again and Dr. Latane Scott. Thank you for being back on Family Life Today. Welcome back. Thank you.
And we're glad you're here. And your book is called Talking with Teens About Sexuality. So obviously, you know, you as a college professor and a therapist and you as a Ph.D. in biblical studies, what a blend, by the way.
Both mothers. Yeah. And you've got kids. So you've had to navigate, you know, walking through this, foster kids as well.
And as we said, you're teaching freshmen in college. I'm guessing there's a lot of questions about this topic, right? There tend to be, yes. Yes, just a few.
A little bit. So, you know, we've already discussed a little bit about the dangers that are going on in the teenage brain, things to stay away from, ways to have conversations. Let's talk today about the good.
Talk about God's perspective on sexuality. What do we say to our kids? What do you say to your college freshmen? What are the goods that we don't hear enough of that we should be sharing with our teens? My mother inadvertently sent a very different message.
I don't know that she really realized what a strong message she sent. My parents were under a lot of stress when I was a teenager. They were caregiving for my grandparents.
We literally built a house across the street from us and moved my grandparents there. My granddad was paralyzed. And we were caregiving him during my junior high and high school years. And so there was a lot of stress. You know what? That's why you're such a caregiver.
It probably is. You learned it as a young woman. It's like, I mean, what you do now is it was such a beautiful thing watching what you're doing.
And there it was. You started your early. It was my parents. But my mother and at the time I was kind of embarrassed about the conversation. But my mother had a conversation with me when I was a teenager. And the thing that she communicated to me was that the sexual relationship she and my dad had held the marriage together when the times were tough. And I thought, man, that is powerful because I saw the arguing. But I mean, it was such a strong message. And my mother didn't really communicate it about in any way that would have suggested that this is really the message I want you to have. It was just kind of a momentary comment she made in the middle of something that stuck with me.
I think I was 16 or 17. And I thought, man, that that has got to be powerfully good because I have seen the struggle. And my parents really came from very different places, wonderful Christian people, great parents.
I would say their marriage struggled during raising kids in teen years. I think a lot of people's do. Oh, yeah.
Okay. So I came with that background. And then I come in and I read in Genesis where it says we're created in the image of God. I keep rereading that. I'm going, okay, all this sexuality stuff, I guess he kind of knew about it.
Don't you think he kind of knew about it? Yes. Yeah. And so lots of times when I'm doing seminars and talking to parents and teens, I'll divide the parents and the teens up. I put the teens together and the parents together so they answer different questions. But one of the things I like to say is, you know, I read this in Genesis. Let's all read this. And I say, so can we all agree we're sexual beings?
And they all raise their hand and say yes. And that opens up the conversation to where it's okay to mention sexuality when we're in a church. Because God created us to be sexual. And sex is a way of connecting that is stronger than anything else. I mean, the biological research about sex is how strong a bond it creates that is literally almost unbreakable biologically.
And we don't talk to our kids about that. We don't say God created this thing because he knows marriage is going to be hard. And I haven't shared with you guys yet my theory of marriage.
No. No, let's hear your theory of marriage. All of my college students are probably glad I shared as a single person my theory of marriage. My theory of marriage is the vomit theory now. The what? The vomit theory. The vomit.
You can tell she's teaching kids. All right. Okay.
And that's what I think has to exist in somebody I'm looking for for a marriage partner. Okay. You know, in your 20s, you're looking for certain things, 30s, 40s.
I'm in my 50s now. Yeah. Okay. All I want is somebody who would be there if you've been through chemo and you're puking your guts up. And they're going to be there with you in the bathroom holding you and make sure everything's okay.
And so I'll say to my students, I'll say, there's that. And the bond that happens where somebody who can't stand to be around vomit will stay with you is the bond that is created by sexuality. And God created it to be this huge, strong bond that will hold a relationship together. And all we focus on is all the don'ts, not the dos. Part of me thinks, you know, when you said that, so often our perspective on sexuality has been the negative. Like I said, I grew up in church and never heard a positive.
It was always be careful. It felt dirty, you know, and I know that probably wasn't what he wanted it to come out like, but that's what you felt. So when you say that, my first response is, oh, and I wonder how many people think, oh, and it should be, ah, that's a beautiful perspective to say sexuality is a beautiful thing. God created one of the most intimate, beautiful experiences a person can ever have on the planet. That's a beautiful perspective rather than the opposite. But Dave, this shows you that there's an incredible battle going on for this area, in my opinion. A true battle because you see the beauty of that and then you see how it's been twisted and warped and there's abuse trafficking and there's abuse. So Latane, you've talked about this a little bit. Talk about that battle, this waging.
Yes. We think that the resources we have are only those things at hand or the things that the world can provide or that our logic or our experience can provide. But in 2 Corinthians 10, 3 through 5, it says that we don't wage battle the way the world does because we have different kind of weapons. And these are weapons that have divine power to demolish strongholds. And strongholds are those things that exist in our minds that have to be battled against. And he also mentions arguments and pretensions. And so an argument is where you have two strong points of view and we have tools from God, divine tools that have power beyond our own selves to be able to go in and to demolish these arguments and to discern which is right and which is wrong.
And so it's always a mistake, I think, to think that we're on our own in this. And you mentioned prayer. And another thing that Beth and I both emphasize is memorizing scripture. There is something about the Word of God, its inherent power, that when you memorize it and it becomes part of your mind and your soul, it really does change you and it does change circumstances.
So all of those things are part of those weapons that God has given us that are not our own weapons and they're not logic and they're not any resources that we have otherwise. And I think it's really easy, and I know we've all experienced this, to think that the war we're battling or the battle is against a person. In marriage, we often think it's our spouse.
At Family Life, we have a marriage getaway we call the weekend to remember. And one of the points that we make, we actually often will say to the couple sitting there, turn to your spouse right now and say, you are not my enemy. And it's funny, when I'm on stage saying that, most of the room will do that. There's some looking at me like, you don't realize she is my enemy. They won't even turn like, you don't know our marriage, but you remind them of Ephesians 6. No, there is an enemy and he's trying to destroy your marriage and you're in a foxhole and he's shooting at you and you're turning towards your partner in a foxhole when he's there. And as we're talking here, that enemy, Satan, will use this area of sexual understanding, confusion, temptation, porn, you name it.
I'm not blaming everything on the devil, but is he involved in this? Oh, yeah. Because when we talk about sexuality at our conferences or at the weekend, remember, I'm always somewhat shocked the number of people come up and want to talk about their sex life or their marriage, and it's usually pain. They don't usually come up and say, man, it's one of the best things in our marriage, it's brought us closer, like you were saying earlier, it's pain.
I'll never forget, when Anne and I first went to the weekend, remember, we've been speakers for it now over 30 years, but this was our first going to the conference engaged. We weren't married yet. So two weeks from this weekend, we're getting married, and that's the first time I ever heard that truth. Your spouse is not your enemy, Ephesians 6, you're waging war against spiritual forces in heavenly realms. And what was it?
We got married two weeks later, six months later, we are in Wyoming at her uncle's place just for a little vacation, and her uncle and aunt were gone. We were in the house, and we get in a fight in the bedroom. And I remember I got up and was so mad, I walked out of the bedroom and started stomping down the hall, and she yells at me. What did you yell? I said, I'm not the enemy here.
I'm not the enemy. Yeah, and I remember I was so mad because I was walking down the hall because she had just reminded me of a truth that we had heard six months ago, and I'm like mad that, ah, she's right. But here's what nobody knew, and she didn't even know at that moment. Two hours before that fight, I remember I got out of bed, and they were all gone, and I'm in a house, I don't know, and I went downstairs, I'm walking around, and I go over to the bookcase, and there's pornography.
Back then, print, Playboy, Penthouse, whatever it was, and I pulled it out, and I stumbled, and I looked. Two hours later, I'm in a fight with my wife. You don't think there was an enemy?
And again, I'm not blaming Satan. That was a bad choice that I made, but to step back and look and go, there was a war going on behind the curtain I didn't even realize I was in the middle of. And together, Ann reminded me, no, we're together. We're a team here. Let's turn and fight him.
But the sexuality part was a part of that little battle. You gave him a foothold, as it says in Scripture. Exactly what Scripture says. So how do we keep ourselves, even as adults and as parents in our homes, keep coming back with our kids, keep teaching the good, the beautiful? How do we stay there? Because it's so easy to end up in the sewer, you know, in the darkness rather than the positive.
I don't know why you're smiling, but that caused you to smile. Read the Song of Solomon aloud. Well, I think about, I'm not sure that Satan doesn't have a huge foothold with our culture. I mean, our kids are just so inundated with sexuality.
How can you not come back to it all the time? I mean, if you're just living in the world they're living in, there are ways we can restrict it. I mean, we do have more parents who are homeschooling and doing things like that to protect their children and to have more influence on their children, too. But we have got to be so intentional about it and so willing to talk about it.
And I do think parents have work to do. Yeah. Sexuality is so holy. Exactly. But when you have sexual abuse, when things have been done to you that have harmed you, that doesn't seem like a holy thing.
No, it doesn't. And when you look at it, we've got generations of people who have been hurt that can't talk about sexuality without it bringing hurt. That's where we've lost our way in the church.
And the church is global, denominational, Christian. We don't speak to this. We remain way too silent. And I do think that we have to be able to talk about it and say, it is holy.
And we should look at it that way. There shouldn't be girls who are coming to see me in my office at LCU who have gotten married who have been told, no, you're supposed to say no to sex, no to sex. Then they get married, and their husband wants to have sex all the time, and all they hear is no, no, no. And they come in feeling shameful, degraded, because they don't have a good biblical view of sexuality. I'll be honest, a lot of times I have them bring in their marriage license, and I change it, and I make it a license to have sex, and they knock at the door.
Look what my counselor gave me, honey. But I do want to make sure our listeners understand, we do want to tell them to wait. Yes. No is still the right answer to, should I have sex before marriage? No, God's saying, I want something better for you, and it's going to be in the covenant called marriage. So what should our message be besides just wait or no?
Well, I think our problem has been our only message has been wait or no. And we haven't gone ahead and said, you know, this is a beautiful connection that you will share with your spouse. There is nothing else like it. It is soul. I love that you mentioned the soul. It connects your souls.
There's nothing else like that, and it is holy, and God does know about it, okay? And it may not be great at first, and it could take time to get to know each other, and it will continue to get better. And I think so often in the past, and we're at fault at this too, of saying, if you obey and say no, then when you get married, it's going to be amazing.
And easy. And so all these people are coming back saying, no, it has not been easy, because I still hear that no in my head. We got a direct message on Instagram this week. Somebody reached out, and we love that, that people can reach out and we can help in any way we can. And they said, I feel like I wasted my virginity, because I waited, and now I'm married, and it's not anything like we were promised. And they were talking about the bedroom as much as anything else, and that was her comment. And, of course, our response is, guess what?
This is one of the hardest areas of a marriage to really cultivate, but you want to cultivate it with your spouse. Especially so many of us come in with wounds today. Yes. Well, and I think that we should be providing resources. So when our teens get to the point, or young adults, where they're getting married, we should be providing them resources that prepare them for that.
Not, it's going to be great. Yeah. There are lots of resources that are available. And I think that all of that is realistic. I have so many women coming to me now that are married that are saying, my husband isn't interested in the physical intimacy, and I thought he would be. I feel like I'm the one that's pursuing him.
Is there something wrong with me? There's been porn involved in the past, and I think he's still struggling. Are you saying that that is something that people are struggling with today? I would say huge numbers. More than we've ever seen, men and women. We write in the book about how men tend to be more visual, women tend to read the sex stories and stuff, or romance novels. And I think that makes it so idealized that people aren't willing to commit in a relationship to really develop a healthy sexual relationship with a partner. And if we're talking, we're talking the positives today, how are we talking to our kids, our sons and daughters, about the effects of porn? I talk real openly.
I've had more boys than girls. I live in my home, and I'll say to the boys, that's not how it is. That builds up an ideal of something that it's really not, and it's not about all that physical. It's really much more emotional and spiritual than we give it credit for.
So that's not how it's going to be at all. And I think we have to be that honest about it and talk about how that's not what it's like. Talk about, and I know we just have a few minutes left, but what would you say to the shame that men and women carry because they've made mistakes in this area, whether it be porn or maybe something's been done to them abuse-wise that they carry and feel like they can't get free of? Because there's sexual shame and guilt that's heavy that couples that come up to us, man, you can feel it.
They're living in it, even though it's maybe years or decades since they made the decisions where things happened to them, but they're still living in it. Because it's so sacred and soulish in nature, it's something that's hard to shake, even if you understand the forgiveness of God. I was just thinking about what Paul said, and it's a hard teaching, but he said that every sin that a man commits is a type of sin, but sexual sin is particularly destructive.
And it is true that it's destructive. The people that feel that pain, it's not imaginary, it's not they're cooking it up in their brains, they're not hyper guilty individuals. But sexual sin has a way of damaging in ways that other sin doesn't, according to Paul, so we need to take him at his word. But also, we serve a God who is a God of second chances and resurrections. And when he says he takes our sins and throws them into the depths of the ocean, that means there's no diver that can get out that. When he says that he puts things out of his mind and he remembers them no more, that means that we can take his representation of our sins over our own.
And in those darkest hours of our night, when we are counting up our own sins, we serve a God who says, I don't even remember those. And that's a great comfort to me. I think there's something also very powerful about having a trustworthy partner that you can share openly, that vulnerability, that sense of shame. Having them be able to look in your eyes, hold your hands, and some of the things that you can't even say, they're there. And they're able to know and love you and see you as whole. I think there's a lot of healing to that.
I agree a thousand percent. I've always said if you really want to see God change your life, and I know I'm being very simplistic here. There's many more things, but I always say you need two things, the power of God, the people of God. You've got to have the power of God. And we sort of think that's all I need.
And in a sense, it is. But he builds us in such a way we need other humans that we can trust, that we can be safe with. And even if you're listening now and you've got something in the dark you've never said to a friend, a trusted friend, this could be the day to take a step toward freedom. You've already told God, I'm guessing, and you've asked for his forgiveness.
And he's given it, by the way. But to tell a friend, maybe your spouse, or if you're a man, tell another buddy, or if you're a woman, tell a woman. That is the beginning of healing. I can remember sharing with our high schoolers about my sexual abuse.
They were old enough to handle it at that point. And just sharing with them, because I think they thought I was a little hyper-vigilant about abuse or any circumstances that they might be in that could cause them any kind of harm. And I remember sharing with them, feeling that Jesus has set me free from that shame. But there is also something really powerful and intimate about. This is why I'm so vigilant of you guys knowing God's beautiful plan for sexuality, because he loves us so much.
He longs for us to experience all the best that he has. But by sharing my story, I felt this freedom. Like, I don't want there to be separation between us.
And I said it in appropriate ways. But I think there is something about freedom that comes from being able to tell another person, this is what I've been through. And then there's this incredible, miraculous resurrection of one, but Jesus has set me free.
And maybe he's not completely done with the healing, but he continues to heal. God's good gift of sexuality is something that can be a source of profound blessing in our lives when we use it according to God's design, it can also be a source of profound pain and scarring in our lives when we don't follow God's pattern. This is why this is such an important subject for us to be talking openly and honestly with our teenagers to help them avoid the pitfalls and avoid the scars. And at the same time to help prepare them for the great blessing that sexuality can be in a marriage relationship. Latane Scott and Beth Robinson's book, Talking with Teens About Sexuality, is a guidebook.
It's a roadmap for us as parents to know how to talk about things like gender identity, pornography, purity, dating, same sex attraction, social media, all of the subjects that are confronting our teens related to the issue of sexuality. This is a book we've got available in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can order it from us online at familylifetoday.com or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy of the book, Talking with Teens About Sexuality. Again, our website familylifetoday.com or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. And by the way, if you're not familiar with the resource Family Life has developed as a getaway weekend for parents and teens to talk about these issues of gender and sexuality, check out Passport to Purity. There's information about it on our website at familylifetoday.com as well. You may want to make plans now for you and your son or daughter to get away for a couple of days and to have these important conversations.
And if that's the case, this resource would be a great tool to help you in that process. Now, I know a lot of us are looking at this new year with Expectancy and with Hope 2022. We pray it's going to be a great year for you and your family. We're praying it will be a great year here at Family Life. And we're very encouraged as we head into this new year because over the last couple of weeks, we've heard from many of you who knew that we had a matching gift offer that had been extended and that motivated many of you to give sacrificially in December. And we are grateful for that. We want to acknowledge that and say thank you for your ongoing support of this ministry. We still don't have the final numbers tallied yet from year end giving. In fact, we're still getting mail that was mailed to us in the last week of December. So we've still got some work in front of us.
And I can't report to you on the final results of the matching gift. But I can tell you just how grateful we are for your participation in that. So many of you reached out and said thank you and cheered us on for 2022. We are looking forward to a great year and many of you are helping to make that happen.
So thank you for your support at year end and thank you for your ongoing support throughout 2022. We are grateful for not only our listeners, but especially for those of you who are partners with us here in the Ministry of Family Life. And we hope you can join us again tomorrow when we're going to talk about the challenges that can come with blending a family when you have older adult children.
I mean, you would think with adult kids it's going to be OK and you'd be surprised. Well, you will be surprised as we hear from Terry and Carol Moss and their two adult children tomorrow. Ron Deal will be here with us as well. I hope you can tune in for that. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We will see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
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