The REAL Life

One day in Dallas, I ran into my ex three times. The ex that I was running into was Jack Daniels on a billboard, and it's because specifically they have created this rye whiskey. And so I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh man, I quit drinking too soon.

I never got to have that. I wonder what that's like. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. So my dad had a drinking problem for over 60 years of his life, and he finally got free in an interesting way.

Yeah. Your dad got remarried, and I happened to, when we were engaged, I went down to visit your dad and his wife of maybe 10 years, your stepmom. And I remember asking her like, hey, so tell me about you and Dave.

Dave was named after his dad. Tell me about your life with him. And she said, well, I had no idea he was an alcoholic when we got married, like uncontrollable fits of rage. He was losing the car because he didn't know where he parked it, and he would black out every night. And she said, I thought I have to come up with a strategy. And so I thought to myself, and she didn't have faith, but she was pretty intuitive. And she said, I thought to myself, what does he love the most in life? And the thing he loves the most in life is money. And so she loved his stuff.

Yeah, he did. So he would black out and she would go around the house and destroy it. She'd break mirrors, windows, lamps, furniture, everything. And then in the next day, when he would come to, he would be aghast.

Like, what happened to the house? She said, this is what you did last night. And it's happening every night.

Yes. Every night there's more and more. And he said, I can't afford to drink anymore. I'm destroying everything in my life. So he got sober.

Yeah. And of course, that doesn't work with everybody, but it worked with my dad. I mean, it was a switch that flipped and he became a different man the last 10 years of his life, 15 years. And I think though, Dave, the thing that really changed him was he came to faith in Jesus. That's what ended up really transforming him. It was a pretty amazing transformation. And today we get to talk about all kinds of struggles that people deal with.

Alcohol could be drug, could be pornography or anger or food. I mean, and we've got John Elmore back with us. Welcome back to Family Life Today, John. Thank you, Dave and Anne.

It's a joy to be here. We've already heard your story this week on Family Life Today coming from your book, Freedom Starts Today, Overcoming Struggles and Addictions One Day at a Time. And again, I introduced you this week as the director of pastoral care at Watermark Church in Dallas. But what's fascinating is obviously, you know, your story puts you in this seat to lead a recovery ministry of over 1200 people a week. I've never heard of a church having that kind of attendance at a weekly recovery ministry.

John, what do you do? Tell us about that. It's a total work of God. And I think we can forget that sometimes because it's just become kind of normal. But every Monday, we call it the spiritual emergency room of the DFW Metroplex, because to have over a thousand people every Monday and half of them have zero affiliation with our church, they're just wandering in because of their pain. They have some unresolved hurt, pain, struggle, addiction, sin that they can't shake.

Because we can't, apart from Jesus. And so they come in and they get loved and discipled. And they're told in very honest terms and we're very authentic, very real with each other. I mean, similar to, you know, what we just shared this past week. That's how we talk, because everyone has sin, not everyone has a savior.

And so we're very clear, very honest. And it's a year long. We would never call it this because no one would come. It's year long discipleship. So the front of the sign says recovery.

They come in for the problems. The back of the sign, after they leave one year later, it says discipleship. They have been led and loved and shepherded in Jesus Christ. So there's like a large group teaching, worship, testimonies every Monday night. And then you break up into gender specific groups, male and female.

And you're in a small group then for a year. And it's every struggle under the sun. I mean, we've got witches, prostitutes, pimps, drug dealers, drug addicts, prideful CEOs, homeless, every struggle under the sun. And Jesus sets them all free when they're ready. And it's a beautiful thing.

It's crazy. Well, let's talk about how he sets them free because that's, you know, your book's actually a devotional, you know, a 90 day sort of devo that you can read and let God use it to lead you to freedom. You've already told us your story, which talk about being real and honest. If the listener missed it, you got to go back and listen because it was a powerful day.

We're all crying in the studio that day, like crying hard. And in some ways, because I didn't know you then, it's almost hard to believe because you look at you now and you talk about redemption and new life in Christ and a new creature. The old is gone.

I'm looking at a new creature based on what you shared. You know, a guy had a shotgun to his head ready to end his life because he was just addicted to alcohol is set free. But it wasn't like instantaneous, right?

It was set free. And some people walk away and they never. And yet you even shared in the book, not in our program, but you shared how you're driving around and you have flings with your ex. Talk about that a little bit, because when you read that, you're like, what's he talking about?

But it's different than you think. Yeah, I think that injury might be called lingering lovers. And one day in Dallas, I ran into my ex three times, which I mean, Dallas is a big city, right? It's like one of the nation's top 10 largest city. And so to run into someone by happenstance three times is you're like, what is going on here?

And I got to like find new routes to work or something because this is crazy. The ex that I was running into was Jack Daniels on a billboard. Basically, I still can see it in my mind's eye and remember it. And it's because specifically they have created this rye whiskey. They didn't have it then. They just had Jack Daniels whiskey. Gentleman Jack, I know too much about alcohol. That came out when I was in college.

They didn't have rye. And so I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh, man, I quit drinking too soon. I never got to have that. I wonder what that's like.

I probably have that neat, maybe highball glass, couple of cubes of ice. I mean, I'm just like, I'm there. I'm already thinking about my ex three times, three billboards in three different locations. And, you know, Satan doesn't take vacation.

He knows, he remembers. And I've heard way too many stories about people who had 10 years, 15 years, 25 years of sobriety from alcohol, porn, eating disorder, whatever. And then they fall. And when they fall, they fall hard. I mean, relapse is an ugly thing.

It's not ugly that it shouldn't be talked about. But when it happens, it usually, we usually go pretty big once we cave. And to that end, I mean, I think this book is helpful in that way. It's what I said before. I thought Jesus just saved us eternally. He wants us, invites us to walk with him daily. And as we do, he promises, it's his promise.

I mean, that's crazy. God gives a promise. He says, you will not do what you don't want to do. You won't gratify the desires of the flesh if you walk with me.

That's all you got to do is walk with me. Don't try to follow my laws. My laws just show you when you're in and out of bounds. It's like a chalk line on a football field. It can't keep you in.

It just shows you when you're out. The power is in the sanctification of the Spirit. So walk by the Spirit. So this is a daily walk with God. Again, your reference in Galatians 5, walk by the Spirit, you will not indulge the desires of the flesh. I think a lot of us read that or hear that and think the opposite. It's like, if I can stop the indulgence of the flesh, then I can walk with God. It's like we try to stop what we're, we don't want to do. And then we can walk with God.

And it's the opposite, right? And that's the letter to the Galatians. That's why Paul gave them the strongest language that he wrote in the New Testament of all of his letters to the Galatians.

And it was because of this. They trust in Jesus for salvation. And then they said, but we're not going to trust him for our sanctification. We'll trust him for forgiveness of sins and freedom from hell. But now we're going to follow all the rules of the Old Testament because they're good, right, and holy. And so we're going to follow them. And he says, who is bewitched you? You foolish Galatians.

He goes strong. It was because they'd become rule followers. What you just said, like, all right, we'll stop doing what we don't want to do so that we can be right with God. And he's like, if anyone, let them be eternally accursed if they share a gospel other than this.

Talk about a strong word. And I also think, I don't know if I'm right. I think a lot of people have tried that form of Christianity.

We're all Galatians. And it doesn't work, so they walk away. It's like, hey, I tried it. Dude, that Christianity thing didn't work for me. I know good people can do that. I couldn't do it.

So I'm out and they never understood. Oh, no, no, no. It's surrender to the Spirit of God. He'll give you power. And here's another thing.

Tell me if I'm right about this. It doesn't say when you walk by the Spirit, you won't have desire. It says you won't indulge that desire.

So when you see the Jack Daniels billboard, it isn't like, oh, I have no desire. It's like, oh, no, the desire is there. But I have a power now to not do it.

How did you get through that day? I mean, Martin Luther says you can't stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest. Like, they're going to fly. The temptation is going to come. But you don't, like, invite that in and build a home for it. I think that temptation is always going to exist. I think in the church we have stopped talking about sin. Or we'll talk about it in the theological sense, but not in, like, hey, this is what you're dealing with sins. We stopped talking about sin once we come to Jesus.

That's crazy. And so you've got a bunch of people sitting in the rows and pews and suffering in silence with their sin, because once you trust in Jesus, you're not supposed to struggle anymore. And people do. The reality is, like, no, I have wept with God when my, you know, I'm speaking hypothetically. Like, someone's wife catches them in pornography. They're pleading with God to take it away. God's all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present, and yet He hasn't.

He doesn't. So what do you do with that if you're like, dear wife, sorry, I asked God to take it away, but He hasn't. Like, she's like, you keep going back to this.

Do you not love me? And the struggle remains. And so we have to talk about sin, and we have to talk about repentance. I think the church has forgotten how to repent. It's clear in the scriptures, 500 years ago, you've got Luther nailing his 95 theses, and the first four are all about repentance, which screams this is of utmost importance.

Then you've got John Owen, who, like, is telling the church, you have to mortify sin. Make it your daily work. Cease not a day from it. Be killing sin, or it will be killing you. There's no alternative.

There's no neutral. You kill sin, or it kills you. And then you've got Jonathan Edwards, who led the Great Awakening in America, and he wrote these 70 resolutions. There's 70 things I will and will not do, and he read them every week. As a reminder, like, I'm gonna drift.

I've got to have this anchor, this mooring of my soul for the desires, the temptations, the lingering lovers that come back around. I mean, I was in a hotel room last night by myself for this. And porn's not really my thing.

Like, it was much more alcoholism, but it was a thing. And I'm away from my wife. I don't even turn on the TV. It's Romans 13, 14. Close yourselves in the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh. So, yeah. So, John, what does that look like in the church if we did talk about sin more and repentance more?

Because you're saying, like, this is something that's so important because I feel like this, too. People are—we're sitting in our pews in shame. Except we're wearing our Sunday best. Yes. When actually we should be exposing our Sunday worst.

Right. It's like, what are you doing? We're, like, playing church. Like, this is crazy. We just fought in the parking lot. And you're nagging, and you're addicted to porn. Our kids are rebellious, but we're going to put on nice clothes and smile and worship, even though we don't believe he's actually going to move.

That's crazy. Like, we've got to turn from that. And so every time I preach, I'll say I'm a recovering alcoholic. And I always will until I die because that's what Jesus saved me from. And everyone has a sin, not everyone has a Savior. Paul writes to his little protege, Timothy, even though he was once a blasphemer, persecutor, and violent man. And he leads with, this was my sin, so that the unlimited patience and mercy could be put on display.

It says, Mary Magdalene, not who funded Jesus' ministry, it says, out of whom seven demons came. Like, the Scripture makes it painfully clear, this is who they were before Christ. Never forget, because all of us have the before, not all of us have the after.

We're still in that in-between. So we've got to talk about sin, and we've not given the people the path back to freedom. And so, look, this is not some Christian-ese life hack that I pulled in from AA. This is, like, back to the Scriptures, back to, like, what the Reformers were preaching, that led to, like, an awakening in the Church and a revival. And so I say that repentance is the root of revival.

We all want it. We all want revival. But God's like, we've got to do some heart work. And He does it by the Spirit.

It's not by our willpower. And I'm guessing in recovery, you guys are talking about that. Like, you're showing off your scars and your pain, because Jesus is the one that's healed you, even though you still have scars. And the thing that we always say at our church is, when we're in a group and recovery people are there, we always go like, oh great, we're so excited they're here. They're the most real, authentic people that will go there to the very core of issues.

And they are just real. You talk about, OK, we've got to be honest in a church, in a small group, you know, like you are at recovery. How do we do that? How do we talk about the struggle and the sin and the, maybe the addictions that we're struggling with in a way that is redemptive? Because you could live there and just sort of sit in the darkness, and everybody says, yeah, me too, and stay in darkness.

Or you can talk about it honestly, but then be walking somewhere out. And I think a lot of times too, when we share testimonies, people like glorify sin. And we sell these like horror stories that make everybody kind of like wide-eyed and gasp. It's like, hey, sin's not the hero. Jesus is. And so we make sure when we share our testimonies, it's one-third life before Christ, one-third what Jesus did, and one-third what life is like after Christ.

Because we want to give people the picture for the before and after and the during, the in-between. Like you don't just trust in Jesus and everything's magically good. Like there's progressive sanctification. And I think it starts with leadership. The leadership in the home starts with leadership in the church, starts with leadership on staff teams. It has to. I say leaders go first or others may never.

And so we have to. You see Paul doing this. You see it throughout the scriptures. I mean, the Lord who penned the scriptures through those 40 authors, he made sure to write about the failures of every leader in the book.

And why? Because he knows that that's the commonality. All 8 billion people walking this earth have problems. We all have sin, but we don't know the way out.

And so leaders have to go first. And I think what that looks like is a real honest confession with our families and with from the stage. If you're a pastor, here's what I do when I lead the meeting every Monday night. Meeting sounds like crazy.

I mean, it's like full blown church service. But I'll say, hey, my name's John. I say I have a new life in Christ. I'm recovering from alcoholism, fear of man.

And this past week, dot, dot, dot. And this past week, what mine was, was careless words, both with my children and in ministry. And that's not OK. But we always say I have a new life in Christ because I'm not an NAA. Meaning you say, hey, I'm John and I'm an alcoholic. Well, I'm not an alcoholic. It's not your identity.

Totally. And I tell people a lot, we're not sinners who saint. We are saints who sin. When you look at the scriptures, I mean, Paul writes to the Corinthians. Dude, they were a rowdy bunch. And yet he calls them saints, Hagios, holy ones, set apart, holy unto God.

Well, it sure didn't seem like it. But he's reminding them what you do is not who you are or whose you are. Your identity is Jesus. And as you fix your foundation on your identity, your belief determines your behavior.

If we walk around ourselves just calling ourselves sinners all the time, I don't think that's going to, one, I don't think it reflects scripture. And two, I think we're going to start embodying that identity. And then also, so I say, and this week, and I always say what I'm struggling with this week, like we have a time of reflection, like, you know, it's being harsh with my children, lust or pride or passivity or careless words. And that keeps me really close to my own brokenness, which keeps me really close to my Savior, which keeps me really close to being able to share with others from an authentic place. I can be known here.

I can share where I actually am. I don't have to fake it. Because if he just shared that from the stage and he's not getting walked off or fired, then maybe it's safe for me to share my sin too. And then you don't just share it. You give him a path for repentance. And he does. He either sets people free or doesn't. And it would make him a liar if he didn't. He does.

And he does in powerful ways. And we've just forgotten how to repent. As you shared some of that, I mean, just that sentence when you were talking about, your husband's been struggling with porn and then he gets better and then he falls. And I've talked to hundreds probably of couples that have struggled with this and wives that are giving up like this is just who he is.

And I don't even have any hope that he will get better. Maybe it's alcohol or maybe it's some other addiction. Encourage the spouse, like, what does that look like?

What's the best way for us to respond? One, before I forget, it has very much become a female problem, too, with pornography. So for any of those listeners that are women, I want you to know, like, you're not the only one.

That's what Satan wants you to think, that it's you are not. I think women are less prone to share because they feel like there's something wrong with me. If this is my issue. It's become a guy's struggle. And it's just not the case. No temptation has seized you except what is common to mankind.

It's like this is for everyone. So what I would encourage anyone listening to is James 5 16. It's another command with a promise. He says, confess your sins to one another and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

And so there's this threefold thing. We do our part, which is to confess. Then they do their part, which is to pray. Then God does his part, which is to heal.

That's an amazing equation. But I think a lot of times, especially in recovery circles, we'll just confess. Like, you know, this week I was short with my wife or yelled at my kids or I looked at porn. Thanks for sharing. Like, that's a phrase. It's like, no, that's a terrible response.

Not thanks for sharing. It's one of two things. According to scripture, this is James, not me. It's you either then reciprocally confess your sin or you pray for them. And then you confess your sin because it says, confess your sins to one another and pray for each other.

It's this reciprocal thing. We're doing it together to each other, then praying for each other, not condemning each other, not shaming each other, not shunning each other. It doesn't even say respond with biblical counsel, though I believe that happens at a time. It says your immediate response is to either confess or pray.

Then it says God heals. That's so amazing that we can take him at his promise. But the way that we take him at his promise is by doing that very thing.

It's taking that orthodoxy and making it an orthopraxy. And so in our church, every community group gathering, we say, how have you fed your soul? How have you fed your flesh?

And how are you feeding others? It's this threefold thing that's like, this is what I'm doing to like feast on the Lord. Here's where I feasted on the flesh as a confession. And here's where I'm feeding others for discipleship. And then there's prayer over that person and nobody gets out of the room because what happened was there was a problem person in the room. Like, oh, that's Bob. He struggles with porn.

Yeah, we'll just work on him. It's like, well, as far as I can tell, 1 John 1.8 says, if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth isn't in us. So now nobody's getting out of the room without confessing. So that's confession. You just got to bring into the light.

Things die when they're in the light. So a spouse brings it to their spouse, to the other spouse. Yeah, which would be if a husband or wife confesses to porn or whatever, I think they pray for each other.

And I think that spouse also, you know, what would be really amazing is for them to confess their sin too. Like, you know what? I've been really controlling. Oh, man. Now it gets like, oh, yeah, this is hard because Dave and I went through this. He came to me in our early years of marriage, said, I'm really struggling with this. And I exploded.

Like, are you kidding? And then he would lie about it and then I'd get even more mad. And so one thing he would confess, which I made him feel so bad, so guilty.

I was so wrong in my response. We didn't have John to coach us. I know we needed his book. We needed to go to his program. So I look at that and I think, oh, now I'm confessing my own sin. Like, that's big. It's so important. I would just end it here to say one of the things I've discovered, and I know, John, you know this, and I think you see it every Monday night, if not even more, is the second you confess, the second you bring something that's hidden in the dark into the light.

Tell me if I'm right or wrong. The grip of that sin, that struggle gets a little less. I'm not saying it's over just by speaking it out, but once it's actually said out loud to a friend or maybe even a stranger, but somebody that you can trust, the second you speak it, you're starting, whether you know it or not, a road to healing.

You may not get there because you have to stay on that road. But if you're not willing to ever speak it, guess what? I've said this a thousand times from the pulpit. If it's in secret, secret wins. If it's in the dark, the darkness will win.

The second it's in the light, you're starting a road to recovery. So here's what I would just say. There's someone listening that you need to tell somebody today.

Today's your day. You need to tell your spouse, a trusted friend, somebody. And right now you're turning off the podcast or you're turning off the radio. Like, I don't want to hear this, but this is the moment that you tell somebody you take a step to a new life.

I'd say there's no healing apart from that scripturally. And Dave, I would say for the spouse, that was really big what you said, John, that you're now confessing your own sin. I was so prideful because I thought, this is your problem.

I am fine. But what resulted was I had arrogance, pride, fear. I had my own issues. And if I could have confessed that and given Dave grace and we prayed about it together, that could have really changed things quicker.

I think we would have had recovery much sooner. And I'm hoping there's some conversations beginning to happen right now. Me too. Lord, let it be. The verse that Dave and Ann and John were just alluding to, just talking about is James 5, verse 16. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

That's true in our marriages. It's true when we are stuck in sinful patterns or addictions, controlling behaviors. We need to enlist the help of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

We need to enlist the help of our spouse to get free from these sins that as the book of Hebrews talks about so easily entangle us. And John Elmore's book Freedom Starts Today is a guidebook to help you on the path to freedom. In fact, we'd love to send you a copy of John's book today. Whether you're going through a struggle yourself or you know someone who is, or you want to be able to help others who are struggling with addictions. You can request your copy of the book Freedom Starts Today when you make a donation to help support the ongoing work of family life today.

We are entirely listener dependent here at this ministry. All the work we do, all the people whose lives are being impacted because of this radio program, the podcast, the website that we have, the events that we host, the resources we create, everything we do at Family Life happens because listeners like you help make it happen. So if you can make a donation today, we'd love to send you John Elmore's book, Freedom Starts Today. Donate online at familylifetoday.com or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. That's 1-800-358-6329.

1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word TODAY. Thanks in advance for your donation, and we look forward to sending you a copy of John's book, Freedom Starts Today. Now one other thing I need to let you know about before we wrap up here today, we've got an event coming up in October. It's October 14th and 15th, a two-day live event. It's the Family Life Summit on Step Family Ministry. Ron Deal and others are going to be focusing on how to help families prepare for life in a blended family.

What can we do proactively as couples are forming a blended family to help them start better and start stronger? That's the focus of this two-day event. It's going to be happening at Johnson Ferry Baptist Church in Marietta, Georgia, in the Atlanta area. Make plans to be there. Find out more. Go to familylifetoday.com.

All the information you need is available there. Join us in the Atlanta area for the upcoming Summit on Step Family Ministry, October 14th and 15th. Now tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to talk with John Elmore about what you do in the moment when you're facing temptation to step back into addictive behavior. You don't want to, but it's almost like you can't help yourself. What do you do in that moment? We'll talk about that tomorrow. Hope you can be with us for that. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.