Mile Markers

One of the things you did with our boys as they were growing up is you had some... Played a lot of sports. Yeah, you did that. But you had some mile markers with the boys when they turned significant ages.

And one of those was at 13. You would take them on a trip, and you would do some pretty significant things with them. Yeah, I actually read Raising a Modern Day Night by Robert Lewis when I was a young father, you know, and knowing I never had a dad. Spiritually, spiritually, I just knew, boy, I have a chance to change a legacy here. I have a chance to start a new path for the Wilson name and for the spiritual heritage of our name.

And so yeah, that book, you know, gave me some markers. So the 13 year old was a big one for me I could go through, but with CJ and then Austin and then Cody. That was a pivotal moment for manhood, but especially for my son to impart my faith down to the next generation. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson, and I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. So we're talking about, you know, discipleship in the home. We got Ken and Vaughn back with us. Man, you have a passion for this topic, not only as a pastor of Harvest Church in Memphis, but president of Downline Ministries, which again, you can tell us a little bit about that if people miss that.

But really more as a dad of five sons, you want to do that very thing, pass on to the next generation. I'm telling you, if anybody missed what we talked about previously, don't miss it. Go listen to the talk about the peg in the morning, the peg in the evening to sort of lead your family to Christ. So Ken and Vaughn is back with us, and we're excited to have you back with us again. Thanks, Ann. Thrilled not just to be able to talk about this topic, so central to my heart and just all of our lives as parents.

I think that as Christian parents, we want to honor the Lord and disciple our children. And yet it's a difficult thing to do. It's an intimidating thing to do. At times, it feels overwhelming. At times, we don't feel like we know where to start. And I've just learned in my 20 years of vocational ministry, most good Jesus-loving, God-fearing Christian parents would love to raise their children in the training and instruction of the Lord, as Paul says, but have no game plan. Right. Just don't know how to do it. I've been really blessed.

I didn't either. Catherine and I were the same way. We've been married 15 years, have five sons, 13 down to three in the ages. And we realized along the way that we didn't have a game plan. And it was kind of like, we're not going to accidentally stumble into faithfully discipling our children. We'll never do it perfectly, but we sure do want to do it intentionally. If there's a few things we're going to do in life, let's at least go for it on this one.

And so talking about the pegs, just start every day in God's Word, something very short, very simple, that puts all of our minds on truth. Earlier, and again, if they miss this, I don't want them to miss this, it's messy. I mean, you've got a three-year-old, there's kids running around a little bit, there's loudness, there's things falling off the thing, right? And we know as our kids got older, then you have teenagers that are at times like, oh, do we have to do this?

Yep, sure don't want you to get too idealistic of a picture of that time. It is not faithful worshippers, Bibles open, highlighters in hand. Yes, it's kids that at times are trying to stay awake or frustrated with one of us or each other or a kid that's spilling milk all over the floor or just general shouting. So again, in the midst of the mess, they will catch on to the rhythm of, hey, we're a family that starts our day with God's Word. Even when it's messy, even when we're frustrated, there's discipleship opportunities in all of that.

It's a rhythm. Let me say here too, Kennan, that with now adult kids, we've recognized that our kids may not have grasped at those ages the principles that we're teaching, but they're seeing this is something our parents are really passionate about and they're seeing our love for God. So they may not remember all the details of the teaching that day, but they know that God's Word is significant and they know that we're going after God.

Yeah. To say two things about that, Ann, that's a great point. I remember in my three years walking closely with Soup Campbell, a godly man, discipling me. People ask all the time, what do you teach you? I'm like, you know, I can't pinpoint a lesson, but I can point to a lifestyle. And I know him and his heart and what makes him tick and what he's passionate about and his favorite food, which is pork chops and raw onion.

But, you know, it just didn't life with him. That translates in 1 Corinthians 3, you become like who you behold. And that's why Paul invites the Thessalonians and Corinthians follow me as I follow Christ. And that's why Jesus invited the Twelve, follow me. And so those kids are following you. They're following you into God's Word each morning.

I remember one of my sons pastored with me for the last seven years and he wrote a series. He goes, Dad, I want to do this series at church. I go, yeah, what?

What is it? He goes, it's called The Color of Your Dishes. I go, color your dishes? What are you talking about? Kitchenware? He goes, no, it's discipleship. I go, what are you talking about? He goes, if you're going to disciple somebody, they better know the color of your dishes.

They need to be in your home. Like you just mentioned what Soup ate. That sounds weird to say Soup ate. But that was his name, Soup Campbell, which sounds even stranger.

But you knew what he ate because you're in his home. And obviously our kids are in our home, but they got to know the color of our faith. So talk about the other peg real quick and then let's talk about milestones. Sure.

Yeah. In the evenings, there's something special for us about getting on our knees just to kind of humbling ourselves, recognizing our need and praying. And even when my oldest was three and I started the tradition, I didn't even have some grand plan. I just was praying and he was climbing on me and it was kind of sweet, but we just kept going. Somebody challenged me once saying, you know, you've got seven thousand nights with that son until you Lord will launch him off at 18. And I started thinking, you know, there's a lot of ways I'll fail, but I'd love to, as close as I can, pray with him and over him seven thousand times. And we kept having boys and they keep adding to the train and it's just been sweet to watch them become prayers. And I get to know them in their heart through that time and they get to know me in my heart and we walk together. And so you start with a little God's word and you end with intimacy and prayer. And I just promise you, you'll have a lifestyle that provides opportunities to point them towards Jesus and the gospel all throughout the day. And one thing you said to remind me, there's an old Jewish maxim of a disciple asking the rabbi, hey, why did God tell us to put God's word on our hearts and not in our hearts?

And the rabbi said, well, we can't, the way we are, cold and callous towards God, we can't really put it in our hearts. But when life happens and our hearts break open, God's word, if it's on our hearts, it'll fall in, it'll seep in. And so Catherine, I always keep that in mind, even if our kids seem disinterested or even rebellious, we're going, you know what, let's keep shepherding them by putting God's word on their heart and let God break them. You know, I don't want that for them, but it's going to happen. Life's going to happen and God's going to lovingly break their hearts intentionally. And we want what falls in to be that word that every day we're gently putting on their heart, putting before them as best we can.

That's great stuff. I'm sure, too, that your personalities are different, so you probably have a talker and you're just kind of going with that flow every time. Oh, absolutely. That's one of the fun things is to talk about how there's no right or wrong there, but to see the uniqueness in God's design and to call out their gifts and see great things and who they are becoming and how God's wired them.

And you're exactly right. It's weird. You seem like if you have enough, two of them be alike, but we don't have two alike out of five. So it is a lot of fun to see how God's designed your family. And I think as you picture that as a listener, like you picture your family, maybe in your every family looks different. Maybe you're a single mom.

You know, maybe you're blended. But that whole time just to picture parents on their knees and then the kids in the room on their knees, they may not want to. But, you know, at first, but if you say, hey, we've never done this before, guys, but wouldn't it be cool because for mom and I or for me, this is really important. I'm going to end my day like this. And it could be you might be thinking, oh, this sounds so complicated. I don't even pray out loud. But you can say, Lord, thanks for the day.

Thanks for and you could name your kids. It could be that simple. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just like brushing your teeth. They don't want to brush their teeth either.

But at some point they quit fighting on it. You know, they didn't realize that's a part of getting ready for bed. And yet if you have the chance to start fresh with a little one, it's kind of nice because we're all scared to pray out loud to some degree. But, you know, with a three year old, it's not so intimidating. And then they're used to it. You're used to it.

And if you start later in the game, again, just to be simple and honest before the Lord is one of the greatest gifts you can give your child, no matter how old they are or how old you are. OK, talk about some of the other things you do. You mentioned like these mile markers or yes, you know, rites of passage or whatever you call them. Yeah. Read the same book you read.

That was helpful for me by Robert Lewis. He's become a friend and and just been challenged by some men. Again, Catherine and I say let's try to be as intentional as we can. Knowing amidst the mess, amidst the distraction and amidst our own failures, we wanted to put down a blueprint that held us accountable. We didn't want to just wake up one day. Everybody says it goes by so fast.

Before you know it, they're gone. We said, well, you know, we can kind of see that beginning to happen. The balls are spinning and plates are spinning and balls could be dropped if we don't have a plan. So let's go and etch some things in stone that we will do. That said, etched in stone reminded me of a simple tradition we have.

We have Joshua stones. Any time something happens, it's a unique working of God that we witness as a family. So if we're praying for someone's salvation in another family and that person comes to Christ, we will write down how God answered that prayer or some way God moves to overcome a real significant struggle in one of our lives in our family.

So we're honest about those. We pray about these things together. We take a Sharpie, write it on a big stone and having this chest and every once in a while on a Sunday night, we'll pull out the chest and everybody will reach in there and grab one.

And then it's really fun. They'll read the date and they'll read the little summary and then I'll tell the story again. And we just recount God's faithfulness, which gives you so much courage and excitement and hope towards continue to pray for God to move. Such an example of a really easy tradition that has brought great fruit, I would say, in my life and in my son's lives of living expectant lives for God to show up in their lives and the lives of those we're praying for.

So little things like that. I started to mention on the last show, we having five boys, the rites of passage, a good word. We said, what are significant ages and significant lessons and how can we align them in a special way? So we chose 8, 10, 13, 16. And I do something on the birthday, give them kind of a gift of where I'm going to take them at some point during.

I give myself a 12 month window. But during that year, as a kid turns eight, we're going to do an overnighter. And that overnighter is real intentional.

I'm going to get away with that son. And the goal for me in that overnighter is to tell that son what is unique about him. How did God uniquely create you?

What have we seen? What do we delight in? What do we cherish? How exciting to think that God's knit you together in your mother's womb exactly like you has. You know, I have intel from his brothers, from his mother, and I just pour into him his unique design and how much he's loved. That there's no, he doesn't ever have to perform for that. I want him to live a life of assured that he's one of the greatest joys in our lives and one of the most important pieces of our family. So it's really just to bathe him. And God knows you, forms you, loves you, has gifted you.

We delight in that. Can't wait to call those gifts out and see those play out in your life and let him know how loved he is. Where do you go?

The child does have some input. So my one that just turned eight, he lives to fish. And so I took him, asked a friend who had a little private lake if we could go there. And we went camping and we fished all afternoon and evening, then made a little campfire and had just one of those talks you never forget in life. And then camped out and then fished all morning the next morning. And, you know, that was his trip.

Simple. Honestly, if I'd never planned it though, Ann, I just wouldn't have done it. There's five of them. I'm always going to be busy.

I got to put it on the calendar. And then with the 10-year-old, Dave, you're not that far ahead of me, but a little ways. And I think these things used to be necessary later. But now they're earlier. Just a conversation on gender and sexuality.

Biblical manhood is what I call that one. That we want to understand kind of the birds and the bees. I want to be the first one to introduce them to all of what's coming in middle school. And again, that used to be something we were encouraged as parents to do around 13. Now they're encouraging parents to do this around 10, 11. And so I begin to open their eyes to God's design and the world's ideas, what we believe and why we believe it.

And so that one has a little bit more of a teaching component. We go somewhere fun that that child chooses. So that one's usually an out-of-towner. And then at 13, which I've just got my first 13-year-old, but that is one where we do something you guys did. Ceremonially, we invite all of the family over, do a big fire, and have everybody write down. We actually give them some stones of remembrance and we write down a character quality that each person sees.

And every person's written a letter that they give that son. They speak those qualities into their life that they see and the potential that they have. And then, again, I try to do a getaway trip where I talk about what does it mean to be a noble man of God. And so just have character qualities that we begin to talk about that are also kind of family values of ours. And then at 16, I hadn't gotten there yet, but that's when I take each one on a mission trip and say, I want you to see the world, see what God's doing among the nations. And from this moment on, you're a part of that and never turn back.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting as you hear that, first of all, it's beautiful. I mean, I'm literally, in my mind, there's a listener going, oh, I can do that. There's markers, I can do that. But often we get afraid as parents, like, what do I do on the actual trip?

So, you know, family life has some great resources, passport to purity, passport to identity. It gives you a template. It gives you sort of a game plan. It's like, yeah, we know it's not something you just, so here you go. You don't have to use everything in it, but it can really do it. But you just gave a model for what it looks like. I've never thought of the stone thing.

Oh, I know. Isn't that a good idea? The Joshua stones, what a beautiful memory. Yeah, I actually have a place in the woods by our house where I have prayer stones that I have laid down at this cross that we built, but I've never thought like, oh, that's a good idea. We've done that a few times at Thanksgiving where you write earlier in the year things you're thankful for, answer to prayers. But I like pulling those out and recounting God's faithfulness.

I'm also thinking about this. If you had a daughter, you'd probably do the same thing, the same ages, but would your wife take them on that trip? Certainly.

I can only speak in a limited capacity as a father with sons, but absolutely. And again, the whole deal is, and Dave, you said people might be, ah, just you're a pastor. You probably, you know, know what to say. I wouldn't know what to say. You pull out your sermon.

Yeah, that's right. But listen, again, having these pegs in life in the morning and evenings will help. If you put it on the calendar, though, I've learned something. Folks that feel completely intimidated and overwhelmed, you put that trip on the calendar and that kid may be nine. But as you get there, you know what you'll do? You'll say, hey, that trip's coming up. I need to figure out what I'm going to say.

And you will start asking friends, finding mentors, going to your local church pastor, going to Family Life Resources. Like, I'm not worried about it. If you put it on the calendar and commit to, I will, and this is the same thing, Catherine, we will mark these moments.

I realize my inadequacies. I've never talked to a 10-year-old about sex. And I remember when it was our first one, I had to say, what do I say? What's appropriate to say?

How far do I go? I needed help. And so, yeah, we look to Family Life Resources for that very talk.

The resources won't be your problem. The problem is if those become an excuse. Put it down and do it. And, yes, mothers with daughters. And look, if you're a single mom, invite a man in. And good gracious, if there was a single mom in our church, I'm even thinking of one now, if she were to ask me to do this with her son, who I've coached him in baseball before, I love him, I wouldn't blink.

What better can we do than to help point young men towards the gospel and be that surrogate father in that kind of an instance? I would just say choose to be intentional. Traditions are one way to do it.

Pegs in the mornings and evenings are one way to do it. There's no perfect way to do it. But I think what I'm susceptible of is not doing it. And so for me, it's accountability.

It's a reminder of what's truly important in life, what God's called me to do first and foremost. Catherine and I are going to swing and miss a whole lot. But when they are long, we call it being launched in our house. Once they're launched, we want to look back amidst all of the failure and all the missed opportunity and say, hey, we're really thankful for those pegs.

We're really thankful that we didn't shortcut those traditions. You know, God's used those and we believe there'll be fruit from that for the rest of their lives. I have to imagine they're probably all anticipating their trip. Oh my gosh, they can't wait. Yeah.

You're either an on birthday or an off birthday. You know, if you're at an 8, 10, 13, 16, that's a really exciting year, which there's great accountability in that. But Dad, what are we going to do? And they can't wait for it. And it's so special. And just again, just the time that you are taking to speak truth into their minds and hearts will win you the opportunity to point them towards Jesus and the gospel for all the days to come. So don't be afraid to be afraid, but step into that fear, put down, you know, spend some time with the Lord, meditating on how to make that time, that trip special on what you could do, who you could involve, what resources you need. And just like any project we do for work or anything else that takes a whole lot of our time and emotional capacity, but we do it because it's important to us.

There's nothing more important than this. So we want to exhaust all the physical, emotional resources we need to make this a special mile marker defining moment in their life. You guys talk to the mom that's listening that hears this and just weeps because she thinks my husband will never do this.

He's not a believer or he's just not on board with this kind of thing. And she longs for it, especially for her sons. How would you encourage her? You know, first, there's general grace that God's given us that fathers need to pass on to sons and some of these areas we've talked about. So even in that scenario, as that woman, I would still invite your husband into a process where, hey, you know, it's going to be hard for me to help him become a man. There's some things he needs from you. What do you what if we did this? You know, what if today you just told him his place in our family and qualities he has?

I mean, this isn't even overtly Christian. You know, this is a dad and a son. And what if at 10, can you have the birds and bees talk with him?

I think that will be more effective. He'll need to go to you as a resource the rest of his life, not just me. And I'm going to pray that God's going to use that time. I mean, you just still can invite him to be a dad through the general grace of what a dad is meant to give a son. And only a dad can give a son.

And if the dad's unwilling to even do that, then again, I would invite you get involved in a local church where there are godly men. There are pastors that would love to come along and fill a gap. I didn't have that specifically in my life. Again, I had a great dad who taught me a lot of things, but a spiritual father I didn't have. And there were some men who filled the gaps for me, who invited me to their home to be a part of Bible studies, because they knew that would be something that I would need.

And to this day, when I see those men, I think one of them's name is Kim Wilson, and he's on the board of Downline. He's an elder in our church. But that relationship started when he invited me into his home to be a part of a Bible study. His wife cooked for me, and there was another man that led it. Kim just invited a few of the guys in my age, and to this day, I thank him for that. So if you're a mom, that's a tough situation, but be intentional.

There are godly men that you pray for them, God will provide them to fill that gap, and how to really point your son towards Jesus as he becomes a man. Yeah, and I had pretty much the same experience. Single mom, no dad, and she did the same thing. She would go to coaches. She would go to men that she knew in our church and ask them to be sort of a father role model for me in a certain season.

I found out later, you know, it didn't even feel weird. They'd invite me over to their house. They'd invite me to a different deal. And that was the men, and my mom was intentional. But I would say this, you know, even Ann, as you asked, my heart right now goes to the guys listening, and say, dude, this is your moment. Step up and be, and I know some of you are like, I'm just not good. You guys are both pastors.

It doesn't matter. You can be intentional to say, guess what? You know, I'm a little older than Kenan. So we've got grown sons married with grandkids, and when we were young parents, you know, older parents would say, you're going to blink and they're going to be gone. You're going to launch them. And we'd be like, no, that's not going to happen.

It's going to be forever. Because, you know, you're on the toddler stage, and it's chaos. I can tell you, you blink, you're launching them. And so I would say, seize the day, guys. Get intentional. Decide to step up. Even if you don't know what you're doing, your effort, God, will use, because you have a call, and it's to make disciples in your home. And it's most important, you'll think, do as a man, as a husband, as a dad.

And you only have this moment for this moment, so seize it and grab it. Yeah, that fires me up, Dave. And I tell those dads, as good as you think Dave and I might be at doing this, your son doesn't want Dave or me to do this. Nope. They want you to do it.

Nope. You're the one that's larger than life in their eyes. You're the one that's their hero. And so for you, in the midst of your inadequacy, to trust the Lord with this, that you be intentional with it, and He might use it for His glory and their good, you'll never regret that. All of us as moms and dads have a charge from Scripture to raise the next generation, point them to God, teach them the works of God and the ways of God, not only from what's in the Bible, but from what's in our own lives, our own walk with God. And what you're going to care about most is the quality of their relationship with Jesus.

Dave and Ann Wilson have been talking with Ken and Vaughn about this today. And of course, here at Family Life, we have a number of resources designed to help you disciple the next generation. One of the things I'm thinking about is our Art of Parenting video series, which talks about the priority of discipleship, among other subjects that we talk about. We talk about building character in your kids, disciplining your kids. We talk about helping your kids live on mission.

There's so much covered in that video series. If you've not gone through the Art of Parenting with a small group or online on your own, let me encourage you to do that. You can find out more when you go to familylifetoday.com. I also want to mention the ministry that Ken and Vaughn gives leadership to. It's called Downline, and there is a Downline Institute. We've had a number of people from our church who have gone through this nine-month program.

It's an intensive Bible training program to help you get a better understanding of the Scriptures, start to finish, to help you grow deeper in your faith. Downline Institute is available virtually all around the world, and they're about to kick off the fall Downline season. If you'd like to study at the Downline Institute, you can find out more when you go to familylifetoday.com.

There's information on our website about how you can save some money off the tuition by letting them know that you heard about Downline on Family Life Today. Again, go to familylifetoday.com for more information about the Downline Institute and make this the year that you get serious about your study of Scripture and your walk with the Lord. You know, what Dave and Anne have been talking with Ken and Vaughn about today is really our heartbeat here at Family Life. Our goal as a ministry is to help effectively develop godly marriages and families, to train and equip husbands and wives, moms and dads to live out their faith and to share their faith with others. David Robbins, who is the president of Family Life, is here with us. And David, our hope is that in the months ahead, family life can accelerate the work of this ministry and reach more people more often.

Absolutely. I mean, our aim, what we are all about, is connecting more people to Jesus and passing it on. There are four pillars of our mission that we seek to live out, and one of them is families, discipling families. And it's Jesus' way, the extraordinary blessing of every follower of Jesus, being able to walk with him and then pass who he is and his truth and the beauty of his gospel to other people in their home and in homes around them. We want to do everything we can to reach one more home, one home at a time with the principles of marriage and family that are found in the scriptures and the beauty of the gospel and how we can walk with Jesus and experience his presence in our every day. We want every person on the planet to know that opportunity and experience the joys of walking with him. Yeah. And we want to ask you to help us extend the reach of Family Life in the months ahead.

Here's how you can do that. We've got a team of folks who we refer to as legacy partners. These are monthly donors, people who support this ministry on a monthly basis.

They are the financial backbone of everything we do here at Family Life. And our prayer during the month of August is that in every city where Family Life Today is heard, there would be two families who would step forward and say, We want to join you and become a new legacy partner. We believe in the ministry. We benefit from the ministry. We want to see it continue in our community.

And we're willing to make a monthly investment to see that happen. When you become a legacy partner today, we want to say thank you by sending you, first of all, a copy of Dave and Ann Wilson's new book, No Perfect Parents. Secondly, we'd like to send you access to more than a dozen messages from Dave and Ann. Some have been featured on Family Life Today.

Some are brand new. You'll have access to those messages. And we want to send you a certificate that you can use for yourself or you can pass on to someone else so that as a couple you can attend an upcoming weekend to remember marriage getaway. We're kicking off the fall season of getaways very soon. And we'd love for you to be our guest at an upcoming getaway as a way of saying thank you for joining us as a new monthly legacy partner. You can find out all the details about this when you go to our website, familylifetoday.com, or it's really easy just to call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say, I want to know more about being a legacy partner. We can take care of everything over the phone with you. And we look forward to hearing from you. Please pray that we would see new legacy partners in every city where Family Life Today is heard and pray about whether you should be one of those new families. And we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday when we're going to talk about what moms and dads can do to help adolescent daughters who may be struggling with insecurity or fears.

That's common among young women. If your daughter is experiencing any of that, we're going to talk about how to address that on Monday. Sissy Goff will be joining us, and we hope you can be back with us as well. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapeen. Have a great weekend. We'll see you Monday for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.