Before the Ring

Okay, tell me if you can remember a really, really, really bad date with me. No. No?

No. I'm not talking about before we're married. It could be even after we're married, because I've got one. Okay, what's yours? Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. I'm thinking of, you know, the time we went to watch our youngest son, Cody, play college football in Illinois. You know what I'm talking about, right?

Yes. And we're driving back, and you yell at me in the car and say, you're the biggest jerk. I said, you have been the biggest idiot to me the entire day. And she actually said, you have been a jerk to me all day.

And the reason was, I was. I was an absolute angry, impatient. And the worst part is that we had to do a message at Kensington on stage on marriage the next day. Oh, man. And I actually thought she may not even come up with me. And we didn't even conclude the argument until we were on the stage the next day. Yeah, that was fun.

The congregation got to watch. But anyway, here we are. We've got the expert on dating. J.P. Pacluta wrote a book.

He's a pastor in Waco of Harris Creek Baptist Church, but he wrote a book called Outdated. It's all about how to do dating right. I'm sure, J.P., you've never had a date fail. J.P., and welcome to Family Life Today. Yeah.

So, so glad to be here with you guys. I bet you are. You're like, what did I just step into? Oh, yeah.

No, let's why don't we go back to that conflict and work through that. No, I've had the reason I wrote a book on dating is because I feel and believe I did it all wrong. I did all the wrong ways. I made all the mistakes. I paid all the dummy tax. And then I found the scripture and then I learned to trust God. And now I found life in him.

And so I've tried to write down some best practices. But yes, the subtitle, Find Love That Lasts When Dating Has Changed. It's so hard to date today. Guys aren't asking girls out. They feel like girls are always saying no. There's passivity amongst the men that kind of marks the dating world. You have the whole technology issue of, hey, should I do dating apps?

Should I not? You have compatibility tests and personality tests. And yet we're as we look for marriage. Marriages aren't lasting.

We're getting married less and we're getting married later. And people that are going on dates are like, how do I know what I know and how do I how do I find love? And so there's just all these angst. There's just a lot of angst that marks single people today, especially in the church. And so I believe this book could change the landscape of dating as we know it. And there really aren't a lot.

Maybe maybe I'm uninformed, but a lot of resources to help. I know when we started dating, I never I never had a conversation with my mom or my dad or any mentor to say, how do you date? How do you date? Well, even biblically, what does it look like for a believer to date?

Right. There's there's more resources than have ever existed before, but not great resources and certainly not biblical resources. And so you have more technology, more dating apps, matchmake, professional matchmakers, things that exist to try to help you find your perfect person. And that's part of the problem, because that's what people are looking for.

And yet there's just so much angst out there. And so I think this book will be helpful to anybody who's single, whether you've never had a prospect, whether you're in a date, you're kind of dating around, you're dating different people, you're in a serious relationship or you're engaged. I think it's it's going to be helpful.

Or if you're a parent of an adult, you have adult children that you would love to help in this area of relationships. Yeah. One of the things you said you do is this every week you take questions. Yeah, that's right. So people email you, they contact you. How's that go?

Yes, I do it on Instagram. And there's a feature in the stories where you can ask a question. So I'll get over two thousand questions, around two thousand questions every Friday, and I'll answer about one hundred of those, somewhere between 50 to 100 of those.

Well, we're only going to give you one today. We've got a caller waiting to talk to you. His name is John, right? Correct.

John, you out there? I am. Yeah. You've got a question for JP. Let's hear it.

Yes. So, JP, I'll share a little bit of the story before I launch into the question. Last year, living in Dallas, Texas, one of my best friends was dating a godly woman from South Dakota.

I'm from South Dakota originally. And I just asked this godly woman that my best friend was dating, hey, are there any godly women from South Dakota where I'm from originally that I've missed and I've overlooked and that should be pursuing? And she said, well, John, there's this girl and I'll just call her Jamie for the story's sake. There's this girl named Jamie that I really think you should pursue. And so after a Instagram DM, which I guess is maybe just pointing to our culture, me and Jamie swapped numbers.

We started texting. And in February, my roommate from South Dakota and Dallas said, hey, my girlfriend's coming down. Would you mind if Jamie comes down that you might meet her for the first time?

She ended up coming down. This was a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then they were driving back Sunday. So it wasn't just a date, but it was a weekend. Thursday after work, I show up with flowers at my co-worker's house, which is where these two girls are staying. And she opens the door. We hug. It just kicks off from there.

We got a great night. And then I drop her back off Thursday night and I get back to my roommate that night, same night as the date. And I say, dude, she's amazing. But I just don't think we're aligned in the same way. She's got a heart for Haiti.

And I just don't see myself being in Haiti in the near future. And she's living currently in South Dakota and I'm living currently in Dallas. I just don't think we're running in the same lane, though she loves the Lord and that she's really cool. I just don't think I'm going to pursue her.

So we went into Friday. Friday, we have a date night as a group. I struggled to make eye contact with her. And the whole night, she's just grabbing for attention in any way and every way. I'm just like so internally conflicted to the point where we're going to get Krispy Kreme after dinner, just me and her. And we get in the car and she goes, what was up with you tonight? And man, on the way to Krispy Kreme, I just start divulging my heart. Hey, I don't plan to pursue you.

I think you're amazing. I'm affirming and I'm affirming and I'm trying to share hard truth. I just don't think I'm going to pursue you. And at this point, she's in tears and we're parked in the Krispy Kreme parking lot. And she's going, oh, so you do this all the time, huh? Like, you know, you lead a girl on just to break her heart. I'm like, I'm trying to be kind.

I'm trying to be loving. And I'm like, after an hour of crying, I'm like, do you still want Krispy Kreme? She's like, no, not really.

Next day, this is where the story really takes a turn. She said, hey, first night, Thursday night was great because we were in person. Second night was awful because we were in a group setting.

We had planned to go down to Waco to Magnolia Market as a group on Saturday. And she said, I don't want to be in a group with you. I just want to be with you one on one. I can't write this. Like, I'm already writing this girl's weekend.

Like, if I say no to this, what is she going to do? And so we spent 12 hours together on Saturday. We go to brunch.

We go hiking. We go to a Goodwill and a church service on Saturday all to end that night. And she goes, hey, John, I'm going to jerk to you all day, all day, just badgering. You do this to every girl, huh?

Like, who do you think you are working within a ministry? Like, like, I thought you were a man of God, all of these things. And she gets to the end and we're at dinner and she goes, dude, I've been a jerk to you. We just reconcile on the last night, Saturday. But then we make we make a commitment to not talk to each other for a week. She ends up going back to South Dakota and she calls me.

I'm like, what are you doing? Don't call me. And I thought we weren't going to talk. And she calls me again. And I ended up just having to remove her number and unfriend her. And it just felt so wrong. So this is my question, JP.

I tried to set healthy expectations, but where did I go wrong? That's the question. Yeah, man. Well, thanks. Thank you for being vulnerable with us. I thought you were going to ask, should we have gotten Krispy Kreme or not? That's why I thought I was going light hearted.

But yeah. Is there anything do you have anything that you wish you'd have done different as you replay that story? I mean, is there something that comes to mind that you've been kind of sitting on? Like, man, I really wish I would have done this different.

As weird as it sounds, in reflection, I think the one thing that I wish I would have done differently is not allow my co-workers to speak as much into the situation as they did. I remember gathering around a table before she came down. They're all like, this would be amazing. This would be amazing.

This would be amazing. I'm just like, I'm almost riding this euphoric hive of other people's praise and giving the date and community. And I'm like, yeah, come on down.

And I just don't know if it was the right time. Yeah. A few things come to mind.

That's one of them. I think setting that kind of that level of expectation and pressure on a date. And that's why I think we need to hit the pressure release valve and be like, man, we're just it was just coffee. We're just hanging out.

Just a guy and a girl. We don't know if we're building a friendship or a marriage. We have no idea.

But I hope it's one of those two. Could you imagine, like, what if God never made our hearts to be broken? Like, what if he didn't create our hearts to be broken in the way that they are through relationships that that he meant for us to stay friends until we had some idea that this might be marriage? I think that's more biblically aligned than the way that we date today. And so I think that's probably the first thing is just the expectations and the pressure that that was placed on the weekend.

So should he have said that? Let's just let's just make this clear what this weekend is going to be. Yeah, this is this is two friends hanging out.

That's that's what this is. And I think by the end of two friends hanging out, we might determine if we want to try to date long distance. But but right now, here's where we're at. And then, too, I think the second that you know, that whole love must be sincere. Romans twelve, nine, that when you had those thoughts and you're like, I don't know what to do because we have the entire weekend. You know, I think at that point you could just be really honest. I always think honesty. You can say all the things in a kind way.

Hold on to that. You know, say all the things in a kind way. And so whatever you're thinking, read like, you know, she senses something's off.

Just say, hey, as we go into today, I want you to know what I'm thinking and how I'm feeling. Like, I'd still love to spend time with you. What I don't want to do is lead you on. And here here's my my fear and just begin to have those conversations as early as you possibly can.

And then the third one is almost a contradiction to that. A little bit is also you can think like, hey, I don't know. I don't know if if one time with a person is going to be enough for me to determine whether I should spend the rest of my life with them or not. And so I don't feel like we're aligned, but I could still go at this with a little bit more curiosity. But you can't do that if you go back to the first thing I said, if there's that much pressure on the relationship where it's like, oh, I got to figure out if this is, you know, the one or not. And so those are some thoughts. And then I also think there's a red flag when she says, hey, I don't want to hang out with you in group.

I want to hang out with you one on one. My sense is that's some control kicking in. And and so it's she's still clinging to.

No, I still want I'm still hoping. And even in the way that you describe the you know, you I can't believe you always do this. You do this with those girls. That's a game.

And I think that's her being playful and a defense mechanism on her part. And I just you know, that's we've learned to date the wrong way. Love must be sincere. Let's not play games. Let's just turn our thoughts into words and be honest with each other.

Yeah. And I would say this. John's question brings up something you just mentioned. It's in your book about, you know, you think dating is about playing games and you say, no, it's about being honest. Here's the question. How honest should you be?

How early? Because, you know, John's thinking, should I tell her right now if I'm on a date with Anne and I'm not feeling it? Am I super honest right then? Or do I let it play out? And there is going to be rejection. And that's hard and that's hurtful, even if it's at the beginning phases, because what can go through your head then is old voices in your head.

Like there must be something wrong with me. You can't determine obedience by the outcome. So just because someone cries or they responded poorly or they throw things at you, it doesn't mean you did the wrong thing. So you can't.

Obedience can't be determined by the outcome or even the perceived outcome. I think you can say all the things with kindness. And so, you know, how honest should I be? I'd be completely honest. I just wouldn't.

I would be also kind. You don't have to say things in a mean way. You don't have to say them in a critical way. But you could say, hey, this is honestly how I feel. And you can apologize for where you feel like that communication is hurtful. And you say, I never wanted to hurt you in this. And I don't want you to experience pain.

That was not my intention. But I do want to be as honest with you as I possibly can. And it sounds like John was.

It sounds like he was super kind. And better to have it happen now than three months from now, where he was holding it in and not saying it, because then your feelings and your emotions are so much more locked in. And that's why I say way to go, John, for even having just the maturity to say, I think I'm going to have to create boundaries from this person who is not willing to honor the boundaries we've already discussed. I think that takes real maturity. Here's another question in terms of honesty. Let's say you're pursuing one another toward marriage.

It looks like you maybe are going to get married. How honest should you be with your future spouse about your sexual past or big mistakes you've made in the past? You just leave them in the past or do you bring complete honesty or is there a balance? It's a big question. I get asked a lot when and how much should I share? And I would say on the when is it's what you said when you believe this is going toward marriage. Right.

You want to begin to have those conversations and you want to share everything they want to know. And so different people are wired different ways. And so like with Monica and I, she didn't need to know anything. She's like, hey, I know you were a sinner. You didn't know Jesus. You did all kinds of crazy things. And I forgive you. I don't need the details.

That's not good for my heart. And me, I'm like, hey, I want to know everything where, when, who, how many times, all of that. And just, you know, torture myself through that.

And granted, her past was way shorter than mine. And so I think you have to have that conversation and you want to share everything that they want to know. And in regards to saying all the things, another thought that I had is you want to know yourself. And if you're a little bit of an emotional roller coaster, I think it's unloving to pull somebody through all of those ups and downs. Like if your feelings are changing, like the wind blows, take some time to figure out, OK, what do I really feel?

Like you don't want to be like at the beginning of the day, like, hey, I don't think I like you anymore. You know what? I think I was wrong. I say that. I think I'm in love. Do you want to marry me? No.

I don't think we should ever see each other. You know, it's like that. OK, there's something unhealthy going on inside your own heart. Like push pause, take a deep breath and figure out, OK, how do I feel? Because sometimes we don't know. We just need space to really figure out how do I feel? And then I'll say something a little bit controversial to that is how important is how you feel.

Right. And that's where I think you want to have some some amount of logic that trumps even the way that we feel, because feelings are real, but they're not always reliable. Like sometimes they lead us in the wrong directions. And so just just know and understand, hey, how important are my feelings? Well, speaking of that, when we talk about don't give your heart away too soon, I think people are like, what is that? What does that mean?

What do you think that looks like? Should I protect my heart? Should I give my heart away? I mean, that was a big thing in the 90s, maybe. I do think there's a danger of emotional promiscuity. And so promiscuity doesn't have to be physical. It can be the late night, you know, Me Too's long, lingering, intimate conversations that that begin to pull your heart of direction. When it's similar to the question John asked earlier, where it just sounded like on that after that first date, like she was all the way there, you know, like, man, this is great. And I can't believe.

And this is so real. And it's because of all of those expectations that others have placed on that on that relationship. I say relationship in quotes because it was one date. Right.

And so I do think we just want to watch that. And what I see a lot in dating couples today and even friendships is people are playing married. And so you get the late night text at eleven thirty. You know, good night, sweetie.

You know, I love you. Just two friends talking, but they're meeting an emotional need that they were never meant to meet. And so be careful. Don't play married. Like let let marriage be marriage. Let dating be dating and let singleness be singleness. And everything for a season is a gift and be aware of what gift you're in.

And I would just say of those three guys, dating is the least fun. Like marriage is a lot of fun. Like it's amazing.

Ministry strengthens. You can go and be together and and strengthen ministry, have children, you can have sex, like experience intimacy. Like marriage is a lot of fun. Singleness is a lot of fun.

Like you can uninhibited in an uninhibited way. Build the kingdom. You can go places like if I'm like, hey, I've got a helicopter outside and I'm looking for people who can go into Syria and build a church for the next year. And all of your needs are going to be met. But you have to go within an hour.

Like, who could I take? Most of single people, a lot of married people be like, well, you know, I got soccer practice on Thursday. And so, you know, singleness can be fun. Dating is like marriage with without the benefits. It's the interview. Like no one wants to stay in the job interview.

You want to get the job. That's why I say date with a purpose, date with intentionality and date for as short as you possibly can. One thing we haven't talked about and love to hear your perspective and you mentioned it in the book toward the end is just the whole purity, sexual purity part of dating and how to do it God's way. What would you how would you speak to a single person about that? People ask, you know, the way the question can come at times is how far is too far? You know, we try to break this down like, well, what kind of sex can I have? Is sexting wrong? What kissing can we make out?

You know what? What is OK? And I would say understand that you were like male and female were made to come together and that God invented sex.

It was his creation that it's good that he invented it, that he made it what it is. And but he put it in a place in the covenant of marriage and outside that marriage. It's dangerous.

And I don't think a lot of single people don't realize that what they're doing is just foreplay and that their body is preparing for sex. But then it doesn't get to go there. That door is closed. That's unloving. That's that's one of the most unloving things that you could do for someone. And yet we do that with someone that we say we quote unquote love. And so that's where I would say the line is, is when your body begins to prepare for sex, you've gone too far. You want to stay away from that line. And Paul says in First Corinthians seven, it's better to marry than to burn with passion. And so you want to get married.

Right. Like that's in that don't marry someone who doesn't love Jesus. You know, all of the things that we've talked about. But know that that sex and intimacy is is for marriage. And so I would recommend, you know, First Corinthians six says, flee sexual immorality. You know, all the sins that person commits are outside the body. But whoever sin sexually sins against their own body. And he says, our body are temples of the Holy Spirit. So as you run toward Jesus, you are running from sexual immorality.

So run towards Jesus. If you have that there, it solves so many problems that you can make. So talk to the person that has just done it all wrong. Yeah. Like even physical intimacy. They've done it all wrong.

What's their hope? Yeah. So so I'm talking to me, you know, I'm talking to me.

Circuit 2000 and 2001. And I would just say that's the beauty of the grace of the gospel, that God's no longer holding our sins against us. That there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ. That God delights to show mercy.

He enjoys showing us mercy. So as you repent and what repenting is, is turning from your sin and turning toward God. He can heal you.

And there's also a confession. James 5 16 says that that there's a healing that comes through confessing to other believers and with prayer. But continue to pursue Christ. Surround yourself with other believers.

You continue to confess. Continue to pray regularly. Remove access from toxic behavior, from toxic people, from from websites, from social media sites that that trip you up.

Remove access to them and you're going to be fine. You're going to be OK. That's what I would tell you. And it starts with Jesus. Like look to Jesus. Confess your sins. Embrace the message of the gospel that he's paid for your sins. That's what the gospel is, is the gospel is not for the perfect person. Like Jesus is a savior and his job description. He's really, really good at saving sinners. And so if you're a sinner and you turn to him, Jesus is enough. And I would just conclude with, you know, I'm sitting here beside Anne, 40 years married, three kids, six grandkids, 40 years of ministry, really from from day one of our marriage. And the reason we're sitting here beside each other is we actually did the dating process God's way.

Yeah. Again, not perfectly. But man, oh, man, it was like everything that you've written about in your book, we didn't have yet.

Thank God it's out there now for someone to get. But it was God's word applied to our relationship. And here we sit. And again, we're not it's not like a guarantee you're going to have the marriage and ministry we have. But because we did it his way, we sit here with a legacy we would have never been able to produce on ourselves. And I would add to Dave is even if you didn't start like that. Right.

It's never too late. That's that's our story. Yeah. I mean, we started wrong. But when I'm with you guys, I think the mistake that your listeners will make is like, oh, that's good for them.

That's not available for me. And I would just say it is. You can do what they did. And I mean, now, you know, books are written about it.

And there's radio shows about the law. It's a renowned love because it was built on Christ. Monica and I did everything wrong.

And I mean, just about everything wrong. But when Christ came in and we began to build our marriage on Christ, we have scars like there are hurts there. But what we have is something beautiful now, too. And if you desire marriage, that's available to you. But also finding that in your singleness and a complete life and singleness is also available to you. Ultimately, our contentment is not found in our circumstances. The apostle Paul in Philippians four said, I've learned the secret of being content, whether I have plenty or whether I have want, whether I'm free or in prison. He could have said, I've found the secret of contentment, whether I am single or married.

The secret of contentment is our relationship with Christ and finding our strength and hope in him. Dave and Ann Wilson have been talking today to Jonathan Pacluta, the author of a book called Outdated. We've got Jonathan's book in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can go online at familylifetoday.com to get a copy.

Maybe you are married, but you know somebody who is single or dating. Maybe you want to go through a book like this with your teenager or pass it on to your college age son or daughter, a young adult, you know. In fact, there's a young man at our church who I gave this book to a few weeks back and he has thanked me for his copy.

You can order Jonathan Pacluta's book Outdated. Go to familylifetoday.com to order it or call 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word Today. I know that most of us who have been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson's conversation with Jonathan Pacluta today are not in a season where we're dating, but we probably know somebody who is. David Robbins, who's the president of Family Life, is here with me. And David, even if this is not the season we're in, we have an opportunity to help someone who is in this season, help them avoid the minefields, right?

Absolutely. One of the things I love about the conversation is that it believes in the next generation. It calls forth the next generation. Just like Psalm 145 says, one generation commends your works to another. They tell of your mighty acts so that the gospel continues to go forth generation after generation.

And my own son, Ford, his most recent book that I gave him was Outdated by JP because it sets such a great foundation. And I just feel like we need to be thinking about whether it's your own teenagers or grandkids that you have, whether it's someone at work that's in the dating scene, how can you believe in them? How can you invest in them? How can you pour your life into them? And how can you pray for them and have the conversations to keep helping them navigate the unique season that they're in? And so I just want to encourage you right now to whoever came to mind when I was thinking about either a teenager or a young adult in your life. Take a moment as we close and pray for them right now.

Yeah. And then maybe just send them a note, an email, a text and say, I want you to know I was thinking about you this week. I prayed for you.

I know you're in a challenging season. Maybe get them a copy of JP's book, Outdated, and give that to them as a gift. Speak into their lives and point them toward Christ.

That's a good word, David. Thank you for that. And we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together with your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday when Dave and Ann Wilson will talk with Arlene Pelicane about how parents can help manage their children's screen time and why that's so important as your kids are growing up. That all happens Monday. Hope you can be with us for that. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. Have a great weekend. We'll see you Monday for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.