Using Your Gifting

Abigail Dodds has a message for women. She wants women to understand that the fact that you're a woman is not nothing.

It's not inconsequential. When I talk to young women, probably 40 and under primarily, it's almost as though they've never considered that their bodies factor into their call. And these are Christian women, and these are not immature women. They're wonderful women, but were made differently. Why are pianos made a certain way?

Why is a bench a certain height? Well, why are women softer? Why do they have a uterus? Like, that is not a fluke, and I just want young women to start to see that as not a fluke. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine. Men and women are clearly biologically different.

Should we understand some deeper reality as a result of that, or is it just simply a matter of anatomy? We're going to talk about that today with Abigail Dodds. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today. Thanks for joining us. So I've got a fastball to throw. Oh, no.

To start today. Throw it toward Dave. No, I'm going to throw it toward our guests. Do you think that's mean to do?

Yeah, that's the way to throw it toward our guests. You can handle it. Abigail Dodds is joining us again on Family Life Today. Welcome back. Thanks for having me. You feel comfortable with the fastball coming your way?

I'll do my best. By the way, fastballs, you know, baseball, Bob. They can hit them out of the park. You can hit them out of the park. That's right. Is this a fastball or a curveball?

I think this is probably a fastball. All right. Okay. But, and I'm going to have you guys chime in on this as well. Okay.

So this goes back maybe 10 years, and this kind of erupted into an online controversy. Here's the story. A guy and a girl meet at church, and they get to know one another, and after they've met one another, the guy says, you want to go to lunch after church? And I'm waiting to see if Abigail's going to smile because she knows the story I'm getting to. So on their way to the lunch, they're talking, and he finds out that she's a sixth-degree black belt karate champion.

And in the meantime, he's kind of, you know, he's just not as outdoorsy or as athletic or as fast, right? Somebody jumps out to mug them. Should the guy get between the attacker and the girl, or should he say, you're the black belt? Now, where'd that illustration come from? You want to tell us? I'm pretty sure that came from Pastor John Piper. It did come from Pastor John Piper. He had an answer for that, right? And what was his answer? His answer is, man, step up there. Yes. And you remember?

And if she wants to give some assistant kicks, all the better. Do you remember how many people shrieked at that? Yeah, there were people really upset about that. Who were they?

What were they upset with? If she's the one who is trained and capable, and she's got the gifting to do this, the guy should get out of the way and say, you're better at this than I am, and to not do that is to dishonor and devalue her. I want to hear what my wife would say. Well, my first thought was, if the guy's bigger and weighs more, then he has more of a chance in some way. Okay, so let's turn it down.

Let's say he's a small, skinny guy like Dave. That was good, Bob. I'm in. Let's go right now.

You and me. And I think that Dave would step into that situation in spite of his size or his skill, because I think it's part of who he is as a man for Dave. He would step in as my protector. So that's the point John Piper was trying to make, that that's what men ought to instinctively do.

I mean, I know me. I would have said, let's go with my wife. I'd be like, I'd step up, I'd grab the guy, and I'd say, you take him out.

I've got to hold him. But I would have done it as a team. As a man, I know I would have aggressively moved, but I would have wanted to use her assets in the same way.

Well, that's interesting. Unless she wants to not be a part of it. I'll protect her if she wants to run away, but I'm guessing she's got a few kids.

But as a woman, even if I was skilled and if my man hid behind me, I'm not sure I would have that respect. What would you feel, Abigail? No, thank you. You're not going to lunch with that guy, right?

Nope. It's the end of that. Yeah, that's so interesting. And here's one little thing that I would pick up on just in that conversation you guys just had about it. I think you said something like, you know, I'd want him to step up because he would be bigger probably even if I was trained. And Bob, you said, well, let's just pretend he wasn't.

Right. But see, now we're getting out of reality because reality is he probably is bigger because almost all guys are bigger. And so in order to make the situation even work where he shouldn't do it, you have to willingly disbelieve reality, which is that men are bigger than women and they were made to do those kinds of things. I don't care how many how many hours I spent practicing arm wrestling.

I'm probably not going to beat an average sized man. And I can't do a single thing about that. And God calls that good. The reason we decided to throw this fastball at you and let you take a swing at it is because Abigail has written a book called A Typical Woman, Free, Whole, and Called in Christ, and Abigail writes for Desiring God, so I picked a good John Piper illustration because she's not going to disagree with John Piper.

Well, not planning to. I have a problem with some of these movies, and I know some women will be really mad today, but these movies today are depicting women. I believe women are warriors. I believe that we're strong. And yet we have these movies where women are kicking guys' butts. And I'm not sure I'm like, that could never happen.

She's just too she could be really skilled. And I'm sure there are many women that will disagree with me. But do you think many women are excited about these movies? Like, finally, there's movies where the hero is a woman?

I'm reading stuff. I mean, that's why do you think they're making? Right. Female hero movies because there's an outcry.

There are a lot of people who want women glorified as the warrior woman, right? Right. Is that wrong? Well, I don't think it's a good trend, and here's why.

In order to say right or wrong, I'd probably want to look at some real specific case. But in general, like we said, we cannot get outside of what reality is. Now, the reason why movies are a little bit difficult to talk about in that realm is because usually... They're outside of reality. They're not inside the realm of reality.

And a lot of them are not even, you know, they're fantasies. Right. Literally. And so you can make a case for that one way or another. Wonder Woman does not exist in the real world.

Exactly. I do believe that I see myself as a warrior in my role, in my God-given gifts and strengths of what God's called me to do. I see there is a fierceness in me that I won't deny. And yet, physically speaking, I'm not that warrior. Well, because it's not in that realm. Yes. It's not in the realm of physical power.

There you go. Yes, there is a strength to the woman's spirit that ought to be there. I mean, and if you ask my kids, can mom be a little warrior-ish?

I'm sure they would all say, yeah, she's got some spice in her. Because that's reality, and I just don't think that's what we were made for. So women's bodies were made to do something very different. They were made to nurture and grow life.

And that is almost the, that's the exact opposite of what we're seeing depicted in these films, which is why I think it grates against the fabric of reality. One of the big themes in your book is that to understand womanhood and femininity, you should look at how your body was made. And your physical being says something about what God made you to do. I wrote a book years ago called The Christian Husband, and I noted in there that men have typically 50 percent more upper body strength than women do. Now, that ought to tell us, that's general revelation, looking at the creation and saying, what was the creator's design in doing that?

What should that tell us? It should tell us that when something needs to be picked up, guys, pick it up, because you've got more strength to do that typically than a woman does. Doesn't mean every, you know, if there's, if there's a mom and a little boy, it doesn't mean that the mom shouldn't pick it up because she's stronger.

But this is the general sense of how our bodies were designed should say something about what it means to be a woman, what it means to be a man. Yeah, and even for that mom with a little boy, it still wouldn't be a bad idea for her to say, hey, son, you want to give your mom a hand with this? Not because the mom is too weak, not because she wants the son to see her as weak, but because it's reminding him that he was made for something. He was given a particular body that's going to grow bigger than hers, and he has to already, at a young age, be trained to steward his strength. Okay, somebody just flinched, though, when you said that and say, well, I'm going to say to my daughter the same thing. Sweetie, you want to give mom a hand with this because I want to teach her to be a servant and want her to be strong, too.

Absolutely. But as the parent, you're there to help guide in those nuances. And yes, we're all servants, and yes, I ask my daughters to do all kinds of things that are physically difficult.

I mean, I'm the one who started out the conversation about the mom with the chainsaw. It is about strength, absolutely, and physically things like that, but it's not about hard work. Our girls are called to hard work. They are called to sweat. They are called to serve.

They are called to sacrifice. But the way that plays out, especially in the interplay between a man and a woman or a husband and a wife, all those interplays will be different than just say we're all going to buckle down and get this project done and work hard. It's a little different when you have those particular interplays happening, and we have to help our children see that because one of the things that I do think is true is that there is a blindness that's come over our age. When I talk to young women, probably 40 and under primarily, it's almost as though they've never considered that their bodies factor into their call. And these are Christian women, and these are not immature women. They're wonderful women.

And I say it too as one who has experienced that same blindness, one who didn't spend a lot of time contemplating how I was made and how that might relate to my calling in life, what I was made for, or made differently. Why are pianos made a certain way? Why is a bench a certain height? Well, why are women softer? Why do they have a uterus? Why are grandmas extra soft? That is not a fluke. So what do you think is going on in a woman's mind or heart or soul when they hear what we've been talking about?

A man's upper body is stronger. It's just biology, and they get upset. Yeah, a little flinchy.

What's going on inside that woman? Well, I think it's this sense of, does that mean I'm not as good? Are you trying to say I'm a defective model? And I think there are two problems. One is that we have a sin nature.

It makes everything into a comparison. So that's one problem. But let's say that piece has been removed. And let's say we just have a very tender heart now where that piece has been removed, and they still feel slightly flinchy about that. It could be that they've never been shown that women also have particular things about them that men don't. So we can talk about a man as having more strength as though, well, he got more.

Well, I'm sorry, but I don't think either of you can give birth. And that's a particular thing. Now, again, not every man is going to be strong. There will be times when this doesn't play out in the generalities that we're now using. And there will be women who have a womb that doesn't ever have a baby in it. And so these are all realities that we can't be afraid of talking about.

We can't stop saying that this is generally true just because we know that there are exceptions and because these really are what our bodies are and what they were made for. Talk about this, and maybe I'm reaching too far. Either one of you two women, do you feel like any of that resistance from that woman I was talking about that, oh, I don't agree or I don't like that.

I want to buck up against that. How much of that can be played out in their life from male domination? Men not respecting them, not treating them. There's a history. There's something that's gone on in the church, outside the church, you name it. How much of that is a part of their resistance to even wanting to know what God says?

I just don't like it. That absolutely factors in, and it does no good to pretend like it doesn't, and it does no good to not deal with it. Because if there's been someone who's been mistreated in some way or sinned against in some way, or has been in a really unhealthy environment where the relationships between men and women really are just silly caricatures, oh, goodness, we have to be willing to say that that's what's happening and then say, that's not good.

That's not how it should be. We shouldn't treat each other as caricatures, and we shouldn't mistreat each other because of our differences. And again, that's when it is so valuable to have that older woman come alongside and be able to give a bigger picture and even be able to say, you know what, did you know that Christ and his church are not identical, that Christ is perfect and will never fail you, even when the church sometimes does? That's where that conversation can be so helpful, and it can also be helpful in strengthening that woman who might feel that way to not lose hope or affection for her brothers in Christ, when she might be very tempted to do that. So I'm going to read a Bible verse, and I want to see if either of you just have just a little bit of a flinch when you hear this Bible verse. Husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel. How do you ladies know that? Does that make you flinch a little bit to read that verse, Ann?

It used to a lot. In fact, Dave, when you asked the question earlier, I really had a hard time with all of this. I was in a very male-dominated home where I had brothers and a dad who applauded strength, competition. And so I remember looking at my mom thinking, you're weak, you're not celebrated. My dad was a little more domineering.

He wasn't a servant leader. And so I bucked against everything as a woman. I thought, I want to be a man. And I'll never forget, I was in the ninth grade when I ran a 400 race in track. I ran with a boy, a guy that was the big 400 winner at our school. And I thought, I'm going to beat this guy. I had never been beaten by a woman, a girl or a guy. And we ran and I won by a hair and I ran straight off the track.

I ran down into the bathroom and I threw up because I gave everything. And I thought and I cried that night because I thought that is the last time I will ever beat a boy. And it's not that I don't have the work ethic. It's not that I didn't put in the practice.

It's that physically I am unable to be the champion. And that grated with me. So that verse, Bob, yes, why am I the weaker vessel? So does it still bother you today?

No, because I understand now who my father is. I understand what he's talking about. Even when it talks about in Genesis that we are to be the helpmate, I hated that word. I thought, where's my helpmate?

Why didn't the man get one and I didn't? I need somebody to help me. And so there is this rebelliousness where I thought, I am the weaker vessel. That means I'm not as good. Did you ever struggle? Yes.

Yes. I remember hearing that verse read and just being like, what did they say? You know, right. I think everything in us kind of shudders a little bit when we first hear that. The only thing I would hear when I heard that verse was the weaker part.

Yeah, it's less than. What I didn't hear was show honor to her as the weaker vessel. Like that weaker vessel status made me worthy of some kind of honor. And then the more you start to really think about it and press into it, the analogy that I use in the book is, and I know some people don't like this, because there are going to be people who don't like it no matter how I say it. I use the analogy of a crystal chandelier that's labeled fragile, handle with care. Well, why? Is it because it's not valuable? No, the exact opposite reason.

It is so valuable. And to just say that these bodies that, yes, are weaker, have to be honored because this is where life comes from. The human race ceases to exist without these bodies. And so would you handle them with honor, please? Would you value them? Would you be considerate of your wife because she may be having babies and you're going to need to really watch out for her?

And so I just now, oh, man, I love it. But, you know, God has to work and there have to be people in your life to help you see those things. And Abigail, what about the wife or the woman that never is able to have kids or never has kids? Does that disqualify her? No, I'm so glad you asked that because this is a burden that I had when I was writing and even now is that I don't want any woman to think that what validates your womanhood is that your body functions properly. I have a son with disabilities and his body doesn't always function properly. He has a feeding tube. And so does that mean that he is less of a man?

No. Because of sin and the curse, there are always going to be things in our bodies and every single one of us that break or are broken or will break. And it is not a lessening of what he's made you to be. And the wonderful thing about Christ's body, that's where our healing comes because the church is Christ's actual body. It's a metaphor, but we are his body. And in that body, there are no barren women.

None. No barren women in Christ's body because we have spiritual children, spiritual family. So even when the physical reality breaks, the spiritual reality never breaks.

Or even if you've never been or will get married. That's right. You know, I have been thinking in recent days about the fact that at the end of Genesis 2, we have the completion of creation. Everything that's been created, God says is good, except for man to be alone.

And then he fixes that and says it's good. So now we have his perfect, unmarred, beautiful, holy creation. And at the opening of Genesis 3, it starts to get undone. And the interesting thing to me is that as it starts to get undone, the attack of the enemy is back to everything God was doing in Genesis 1 and 2. It's back to destroy marriage, which was the thing God created at the end of Genesis 2.

Then it's back to start to destroy male and femaleness. You look at the trajectory of the culture we're in and you can see this is the attack of the enemy to say, we're going to take you back to chaos, which is where it was before God created anything. We're going to undo the creation order that God did. And that's why I think a book like this and a conversation like this is so critical in our day to say we don't want to be a part of the undoing of God's design. We want to be a part of the exalting of God's design because the new heaven and the new earth is going to be even grander, even more glorious. And these elements that you find in Genesis 1 and 2 are going to be in Revelation 21 and 22 in even more magnificent ways. And I would just add, Bob, we've been talking about womanhood all day, but I would say to the men, so much of that's on us to treat women, all women, with respect and dignity and value in a God-honoring way. The way God views them is the way we as men should as well. It's the part before the weaker vessel in 1 Peter 3 where it says treat her with honor.

Yeah, absolutely. We've got copies of Abigail's book in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can go online to order a copy or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. That's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word Today. We had some pretty exciting news around here a few days ago. Many of you know we've had a matching gift offer that's been made available to us during the month of May. Some friends of the ministry agreed that they would match every donation given to Family Life during the month of May, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $250,000. Well, we had some additional friends come along and say we want to help with the matching gift, and so they've added to the matching gift fund an extra $100,000. We're now at $350,000 in our matching gift fund.

That's great news for us, but it's only great news for us if listeners like you will join with us and make a contribution. That's the only way that we can get funds from the matching gift fund released. So whether it's a one-time gift or a monthly legacy partner gift, your donations are going to be matched dollar for dollar. In fact, if you're a new legacy partner, your donations over the next 12 months will be matched dollar for dollar as long as there are funds in that matching gift fund.

So you call and say, I want to be a monthly legacy partner. You can decide whatever is the right number for you, and your donations are not only going to be matched dollar for dollar, but we're going to send you, as a legacy partner, a certificate so that you and your spouse or your fiancé can attend an upcoming weekend to remember marriage getaway. As our guests, that's transferable.

If you want to pass that on to someone you know, you can do that. And whether you make a one-time gift or you become a legacy partner, we're going to send all of you copies of Aaron and Jamie Ivey's books, Compliment. There's a book for men and a book for women talking about how we blend together in marriage. We'll also send you a flash drive that's got conversations with Dave and Ann and me about some of the key things I've learned about marriage and family in 28 years of co-hosting this radio program.

So all of that comes to everybody. The gift certificate for the weekends to remember comes to new legacy partners, and everybody's donations are matched dollar for dollar as long as there's money left in that matching gift fund. Thank you for joining with us and supporting the Ministry of Family Life today. We appreciate you. We look forward to hearing from you. You can donate online at familylifetoday.com, or you can call to donate. 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number, 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word TODAY. Now, tomorrow we're going to talk about empowerment for young women. We hear a lot about girl power these days, so does the Bible talk about that?

Is that something that ought to be pursued? Abigail Dodds is going to join us again. I hope you can join us as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Got some extra help from Mark Ramey and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.