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The Money Disruptors

Family Life Today / Dave & Ann Wilson, Bob Lepine
The Truth Network Radio
May 11, 2021 2:00 am

The Money Disruptors

Family Life Today / Dave & Ann Wilson, Bob Lepine

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May 11, 2021 2:00 am

Art Rainer, author of "The Marriage Challenge: A Finance Guide for Married Couples," talks about four different money personalities in marriage: the saver, spender, investor, and ignorer. He explains how to talk about money before and after marriage, including how to address bad money habits, like hiding purchases, that can derail a marriage.

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Do you and your spouse have separate bank accounts to keep your money separated. Mark Rayner says there may be a reason why God's necessary for some couples, but in general bad idea. There's a big shift that should occur when you get married, it's no longer my money or my bank account but our money our bank account. If you're saying that God's design for our marriages is to be one and Genesis 224 to be one you go to. Then first Corinthians 74, Paul says that not even their own bodies are their own and what if our own bodies are not our own.

Consider bank accounts be this is family life today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson on Bob Lapine. The way we handle our money in marriage can either promote oneness or can push us toward isolation were to spend time talking about that today with art Rayner stay with us and welcome to family life today.

Thanks for joining us. So, did you ever have actual envelopes for you divided up the money and put some in one envelope from another look. I is over their life laughing again. What's going on. I think I know why I want to hear her say it back ahead when you get a faith that are no let you go to that wanted to do that in the debris in the last bargaining to do this and we never did that we needed to we do it a different way. We basically an envelope in which our kids had so so as we were raising them. We use the euro. Here's your allowance you get $10 to one dollar goes here in one dollar goes here. He got the other eight dollars. So we use that with them. We were more sophisticated than envelopes for ourselves that we were able to guide the divided up and know what our allocations needed to be, but the envelope idea to have mental envelopes is not a bad thing for a married couple as they start to think about. Okay, here's the paycheck worked for a lot of couples that live out his living adding their minds and head around it.

We know many couples still do that one of the greatest things about it is it forces you to communicate about money when it comes to money communication may be one of the biggest reasons why there are money problems in marriage that money, especially when the money in an envelope runs out. Writer is joining us this weekend family like today are welcome back. I think Fred art is the vice president of institutional advancement at Southeastern Baptist seminary in Wake Forest. He's got an MBA and he has written a book called the marriage challenge actually wrote the money challenge first right, that's correct you and and that's all about money and how we use at the marriage challenge really takes those principles and talks about the relational tensions like a map and places it in the context of the marriage. The thing I love about the book you give couples a game plan. You say look your step one here. Step two here. Step three. Here's how you get on track and it may take you a while to get to step four, five and six.

But that's okay, just stay with the steps and then you talk about how couples get sabotaged and what the problems are. Communication is one of those issues that couple tonight money problems. They have communication problems. Usually when you hear of a couple that divorces because of financial issues, so they say that finances that the reason why date they separated was more of a symptom of something that was going on in the marriage so usually there's there's an underlying symptom that manifest itself in their finances so we look at the statistics on divorce and money you need to read between the lines and realize that it's not probably not just about money shortly. Finances can cause stress but more than likely when a divorce happens there's probably something else was under there, and communication and the lack of communication is absolutely one of those issues that you often see. I remember the two of us if I would overspend. I would think, what's the problem, he apologized. Why are you so upset when I realized they felt disrespected my knee. Not adhering to our plan, which to me as I can respect you.

I just want to spend more money and we definitely were weakened.

Communication guy was the guy didn't want talk about it.

I wanted to talk about it but I really didn't because I felt stress and anxiety. And when you talk about it. It's all there, and so we think number-one time sit in Moby Jim that a campus Crusade, staff training whereon staff accrue at the time and some missionaries on stage and they asked for money and we had little cards and I write down the numbers said pray and ask God to write down a number send it in.

Never lifted and never talk to her about it.

I make a pledge as much as it is in our savings account while in what it meant, many more times $3000. It wasn't a lot of money. That's a lot of money to your wife about what you're doing with it. I guess what happened after that little meeting you afterward and she was so would you would you think I go. I'm sure you thought same thing. I gave our savings account is like it.

So there we were EL you newlywed couple. Nobody taught us anything about money, and one of the first things talk absolutely talk communicate about money and also what what I'm hearing is the need to understand each other's money personality go deeper into your eyes absolute right so when you marry your spouse there likely to have a different money personality than you and in the in the marriage challenge. I have four different types of of money personality so you have the safer that you write this you yet.

The spender you have the investor and you also have the ignore now, as you mentioned, the saver often gets that the praise right there. The ones there is is will they are the ones that have everything together and praising a bit.

It is, is the spender that often gets the better of right and they're the ones that you often say that I can't believe they're just that the spender there and it's important understand that regardless of your money personality. Regardless of your spouse's money personality.

The strengths and there's weaknesses so for the saver. Your strength is you like to save money. And that's a good thing you like to set aside money for retirement. That's a really good thing to do. The downside is that if you go on a vacation you're opting for the tent as opposed tell you is that because he can afford a hotel just because you save money going with the tent objet did you say go on a vacation.

I made some assumptions there for the spender. The negative that's often pointed out is that they are quick to swipe the credit card that there very likely to spend money without asking the other spouse and that that is a negative.

That's not good.

At the same time the spender is the one who often thinks of others first. They're the ones that were more willing to buy gifts for other people and that is the true spender that I am not myself. I want to buy for other people in.

That's a good thing as long as it's within the context of budget which are probably thinking about it more than you are.

Hey why you don't love the church is your money person. Now that the investor likes to take risks that can be a good and in bad. They're willing to invest for retirement. They're not scared of stocks and mutual funds in these types of investments. However, they can be little bit too risky at times. That's the downside the ignore the positive is that they're not really fazed by money, so that doesn't really bother them. The downside is that there often detached from the actual financial dealings of the of the house was actually going on.

They don't know whether there and financially healthy are not where you think these patterns come from or they nurture nature is what is it the way you're wired little bit of both. So you have what's called your money story right. How you learned about money and that's derived in part from just your your upbringing, your experience with your own family. You also have sometimes generational effects. So in 2008 that had a big impact on millennial's and how they thought about investing and they were somewhat delayed fort for a while because they were fearful they watch their parents lose massive amounts of money in the retirement accounts and even jobs.

So they're hesitant to invest. When you look at the depression era if you know somebody from the depression, error, or if you have no note notes money from the depression era likely they were pre-frugal and is because they went through a very difficult point in our nation when unemployment rate was at 25% and so those had a major impact how they viewed money how they managed management in the new course you have your natural personality and so she's really a combination of those things that develop your your money personality quotes interesting as you talk about marriage dividers.

One of be in this communication thing talk about how a married couple should talk about this very thing before marriage. In marriage we never had a discussion about money before we got married. How nave is that some talk about how do we communicate about money is as a married couple. Well, it starts with the just simply the words that you use and how you describe the finances in your home.

There's a big shift that should occur when you get married, it's no longer my money or my bank account but our money our bank account sell every married couple should join their accounts yet that that's something that I'm on the pretty big proponent that I like the idea of joint accounts because what it brings to the marriage and as I've dealt with couples that are in premarital closet that's often a just a big surprise. So you're saying I should have my own account even for blended families that can even be on absolutely her situation absolutely and I and I understand that but if were saying that God's design for our marriages is to be one Genesis 224 there to be one you go to. Then first Corinthians 7 for Paul says that not even their own bodies are their own anymore. If our own bodies are not our own and should our bank accounts and I understand there's accounts out there like your your retirement accounts where you can literally only have one person on the account in and in that situation once it will make sure you church your spouse has the user ID and password that they have access to it. Try to be as unified in your findings as possible so it goes back to changing the language in the way that you think about money. So when you're communicating is no longer my money is no longer my paycheck but it's our money, our paycheck at the same time is no longer your expenditures so you're not saying you spent this. This is your expenditure but it's it's ours because when you're married, expenditures don't happen in a vacuum. They affect one another so this really is our expenditure. That's a good question. So I'm out on my own in hands at home and I want to buy a pair shoes when he told married couple. How much communication do I check with her to buy a $50 pair shoes would only check with her when I want to buy a $15,000 motorcycle which one I'm going to write a very clear answer on that one. It depends. There you go.

So it's going to depend on how you all on what you will decide as a couple is $50. Is that the limit is $15,000 limit. I doubt you'd be $15,000 but is there a limit where you all are comfortable saying. Yet, if there is a purchase under $40, I'm fine with you debt, but this it goes back to communication.

That conversation has happens.

You have to sit down and figure okay what is that amount for us because it's going to vary from couple to couple in this communication presupposes that we've got some basic principles. Where were in alignment of an agreement. I think a lot of times you're not having good communication because when you try to communicate you get clashing presuppositions not just personalities but clashing priorities or clashing like one person says I'm I started an IRA when I'm 16, like you did come weird on and so that you retirement saving for retirement is a big deal and the other partners looking to go and so were put money in our retirement account and the kids can have a new parish shoes to go to school with, because we want to have money for retirement and can we look at them and say he's right, she's wrong, she's right.

We'll figure out how we get the oneness around these priorities and one of the tools that provide in the marriage challenge are the eight money milestones and so wherever you are on your financial journey. These eight money milestones can but maybe provide some clarity for what steps need to be taken in your finances as you pursue financial health. For the sake I'm always always when they should put this in there for the sake of advancing God's kingdom. For the sake of living and giving generously. That's why we pursue financial help. So those eight money milestones are in there and they really guide a good section of the book to hopefully provide clarity. That's really the heart of the book was right that as were dealing with the obstacles to financial oneness and things like communication be on a tripwire or really jumping past the heart of the book to say what's talk about were couples find discord and communication is not the only place one of the things that's a big issue here is selfishness is I want what I want and I earned that money or I deserve that money or you got your things so I should get my thing and that's a big one. Not for me but for those people who are so insane you but you didn't realize how eccentric you are until you got married.

How did you discover that will pre-marriage.

It was all about me. I'm the only one that I had to concern myself about. So with my finances. I was taking care of myself and nobody else. Now I have my spouse as Sarah and I had to think about the money is not just with finances but in every aspect of life, whether it's even scheduling a trip going out of town. I need to check with her first and I did not have to do that before so my eyes were opened quickly to seen how selfish I was because my world revolved around me going to say now that we have three kids.

I've really understood how selfish I was marriage open your eyes to see how selfish you were. I can honestly remember Mrs. decades ago stand and in a sporting goods store looking at a pair of Nikes that I so badly wanted and having three boys at home. No one can buy these. I can be the most selfish jerk in the world. I need to take the money I would spend on those and spend it on my kids that's it was a hard decision. I know some people don't make that decision and I don't even communicate about it so you get selfishness and communication destroying their marriage right now is nice of you that I got a different way put some signs of our selfishness.

Don't compromise you blame you take that it's easier asked for forgiveness than permission approach you hide your heart so there is some real signs SL writing purchases. I'm going to bust myself here because I went to the grocery store one time and I came back to Mary and so would you to the grocery store and I told her some of what I got to the grocery store. I did not tell her a lot. I just didn't tell her the whole truth right what I'd forgotten was that the grocery store had pride started printing out on the receipt itemized descriptions of what you bought, and she found the receipts and she said where the Doritos you didn't tell me you got Doritos and ice cream got ice cream to man, and here's what I learned from.

It's not an issue of whether I can buy Doritos if I want Doritos or not, but I had just sowed seeds of this trust by not being disclosing with my wife when she so would you get nice. I got the oranges I got this I got that I just left off the Doritos and the ice cream well. I had just sewn seeds of distrust. Now the next time she says what would you do where'd you go. She's wondering what's he not telling me that heart with that because my reasoning would be I would tell you if you didn't get selected, so I would write federal my heart good on matters but it's very generous of you to offer me a good hard just as a as a heads up is not only itemized receipt is also now the coupons that are based that is based on what you would you bought so is becoming very difficult to hide ice cream purchase was this issue of building trust around money.

This may be the biggest hidden explosive in a marriage when one of you is not being disclosing when you are doing what your mom did. Don't tell dad about what we bought. That's toxic not just for your money. That's toxic for repair your relationship in the marriage challenge there's a fictional story that goes along with the what I call the core content and in this story, you have Chris who gets really upset over some undisclosed debt that his wife Claire has brought into the marriage there. The newlyweds on the honeymoon and anything he finds out.

I don't want to. For those who can read the book and I cannot not go smaller right, but the reason why Chris is so upset about the loans it's not that he's he's somewhat scared for the financial future, but is also concern for their marriage because of what that type of thing did to his brother who is now is now divorced and it became a trust issue.

It was all about trust it once he manifests itself in it in the finances but there was actually an underlying issue there and that was distrust and he was concerned about that. What you say to the listener, who right now is listening and going. Should I tell my husband to tell my wife, I've got something that I haven't, maybe it's bigger than Doritos.

You know like likely is here if you order something hidden. It's likely that is bigger than that Territo was used to tell you, you have to be forthright with this information is not this the only way that reconciliation can have because it is going to show up at some point, whether it's with that particular purchase or another purchase in the future. It's going to reveal itself and it's going to be ugly and can be disastrous and in the marriage.

When I first started out in banking. I had a couple sitting in front of me that had just been turned down for a loan and so they asked the natural question why and why we been turned down so I put up their credit report and said your credit score is low. Let's start walking through some of these debts and I started going down the list of what was on the was on the credit report and I hit a particular credit card and immediately the wife said will that's not ours, and my initial response was great. Let's start working we start helping you contact the credit bureau figure how to how you actually get that off your credit report because it's this one of the things is point under Chris wasn't the only thing as I started having a conversation with her and they were sitting across from you. Both of them were looking at him yesterday looking at the husband and he had started growing very red and clearly vicious uncomfortable and as the conversation goes. He just quickly interrupted us and said don't worry about it. The wife looked at him and said are you joking and why would not worry about that. And then as she looked at him. She saw what I had been seeing that his face is run beet red and he was very uncomfortable. She immediately knew that something that, whatever that debt was his first was hidden, but it also probably represented something very embarrassing and so she looked at me and said are very sorry Oregon have to leave so she got up, went out and I wish that I could say that data came back and everything is great. I have no idea what happened to them but I say that now tell that story because eventually it's going to come to you can't keep doing that without it is wrong in general to hide these from from your spouse, but eventually something's going to going to happen to where it will come dead and will come to light and the results can be disastrous. In a sense, Jesus reminds me of Jesus words.

You know what you doing the dark will be broadcast this right on time. At some point whether it's financial, sexual, anything done in the dark as long as it stays in the dark can destroy you nicely were talk about money in this right. It could be anything. So what I would say here's what I would say because the fear of exposing this to my spouse or anyone is. Honestly, I can't trust God is right, and when you bring it into the light. You are not Santa trust my spouse because they may not respond in a great way but there is a God that even through that exposure will meet you and that be the best thing ever due in today could be the day for somebody say okay I got if Jeff got a come clean. Whether it's money whether it's porn, you know, you name it. Today is the day I'm bringing into the light on the trust God can meet us and maybe get a little messy for a while but he'll eventually meet you) is freedom that comes in because that that secret heavy to carry out I'm think a couple may need to have a conversation where the goal could let's just let's just ask ourselves is our communication healthy when it comes to issues of money or are we dodging each other are we avoiding these conversations when we have the conversations. Are we teammates or are we adversaries around these conversations and how can we become teammates. How can we not accuse or polarize ourselves from one another and is there any reason that we don't trust one another and are we hiding anything and why do we hide things. What's behind that.

What's the motive there and how can we safely bring these things out into the open, so there doesn't have to be hiding and then my selfishness when let's just acknowledge this is bone deep in all of us.

We are predisposed prewired toward being selfish. Even those who would say why not spending money on me. I'm spending money on other people.

The reason you're spending money on other people is because you feel better when you're doing nice things for other people are still selfishness motive that can be at the heart of that.

So let's expose some of these things. Let's have a conversation where we address these things so that we can start to get healthy and how we pursue oneness around money In the back of the arts book it says God has a plan for your marriage and your money. It starts with a challenge. Will you accept and I was just listening about thinking there is the generous switch out to be a great night.

It could be a date night that you talk tonight theme you're really dangerous. That is exactly what if you want to get healthy. Sometimes you gotta go to hard places necessary and are you line out these challenges in one section in the book, I'd encourage a couple to get a copy of the book and say let's read through this chapter together and then let's just be honest with one another. Can we trust one another. Can we can we have this kind healthy communication so we can get to where we want to go in the place we want to go is where were handling our money in a way that honors God that advances his kingdom and that takes care of the needs we have for this life we get copies of arts book the marriage challenge in our family like today resource Center.

You can go to order a copy or call one 800 FL today.

Again, our website is family life

The name of the book is the marriage challenged by our grain or you can also order the book by calling one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today. You know, under me for the whole issue of money as we talked about today is really the issue of oneness. Are we pursuing oneness in marriage because that's what God intends for two to become one, or are we drifting toward isolation. Family life.

That's one of the key principles of this ministry, we want to do everything we can as a ministry to help couples move in the direction of oneness move closer to each other move closer to God and have the kind of marriage and family.

God intends for us. The kind he defines for us in the pages of Scripture and were able to do this because of you because of blisters like you who don't just listen to family life today you make this program possible through your donations that support the ongoing work of this ministry during the month of May. We've had some friends of the ministry who came to us and said we know summer can be a challenging time for ministries like family life we want to give you a little head start so they agreed that this month they would match every donation we received from listeners, dollar for dollar up to a total of $250,000. That's a very generous offer on their part. And so now if were to take advantage of that matching gift.

We need you to call or go online and make a donation today. You can do or you can call one 800 FL today to donate when you do your donation is going to be matched dollar for dollar with money from the matching gift fund and will send you a couple things as thank you gifts were to send you two books one for husbands and one for wives. These are books by Aaron and Jamie IV called complement the surprising beauty of choosing together over separate in marriage. Again, there's a book for husband's book for wives in order to send you a flash drive that has some conversations.

Dave and Anna and I had recently talking about the most significant lessons I've learned about marriage and family from guests we have on family life today throughout the 28 years that I have served as cohost for this program.

We recorded those conversations made five episodes out of it and were happy to send you those five episodes along with some of the standout programs from the last 28 years all that's on a flash drive that were happy to send you along with the books from the obvious. When you make a donation today and again you can do or call one 800 FL today to make your donation and we hope you can join us again tomorrow when were to continue our conversation about marriage and money and oneness. How we come together as husband and wife and how we can manage our money well. Hope you can join us for all of that think our engineer today.

Keith Lynch got some extra help from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Payne. See back next time for another edition of family life today. Family life today is a production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas. Accrue ministry help for today hope for tomorrow

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