What is Holy Sexuality?

It's clear in scripture that we are not to be conformed to this world. We're to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. Christopher Yuan says that's true when it comes to understanding our sexuality. We have to distinguish ourselves from the world because the world is really saying your sexuality should delight you and it should define you. And I look at God's Word and it's like, no, Christ should delight me. Christ should define me.

That's the big difference. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine.

When it comes to human sexuality, is your thinking shaped more by what you're reading in the Bible or what you're reading online? We're going to talk more about that today with Christopher Yuan. Stay tuned. And welcome to Family Life Today. Thanks for joining us. You guys served for more than three decades in local church ministry. And I'm guessing during that time you saw the issue we're going to be talking about today, sexuality and gender issues, move from something that was kind of on the back burner to something that was front and center, something where people were confused about how to respond, about how to demonstrate kindness and grace and compassion while still holding to the truth as they interact with other people around these kinds of issues. In 1990, when we started, I don't remember a single conversation about this topic. I really don't. Not that it wasn't important. It just wasn't at the forefront of people's minds like it is today.

I can't go a week now in the last eight, nine, 10 years. Wow. Without discussions about this. Good ones. Really needed discussions. But people come into our church on weekends wanting to know what is your view on homosexuality?

What is your stance? What are wives and moms? What's the conversation like with them? I was just going to say in the past five years, I can't even tell you how many moms are coming up to me desperate. Kids are coming to their parents and especially their mom saying, help me. I don't know what to do.

And this is who I am. And the moms are coming to me saying, help us as a church. What are we saying?

How do we help our kids? Well, we have here a book. Let me just read what Rosaria Butterfield said about this book. And Rosaria has been a guest on Family Life today. She said, you're holding in your hands the most important humanly composed book about biblical sexuality and godly living for our times.

Wow. And we've got the guy who wrote that book with us today. He is back. Christopher Yuan, welcome back to Family Life today.

Thanks, Bob, for having me back. What a nice thing for her to say about this book. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I mean, I wish I could say I paid her to do that. But I mean, it was when I got it back. I was like, wow. Now I ask you for a blurb. I didn't.

It was, I'm humbled. And she is an incredible friend. I call her my big sis.

She calls my mom and dad, mom and dad. So we are truly brothers and sisters in Christ. This is your second book. Your first book is a memoir. And the last time you were here, we unpacked your story. Your mom was with us.

And in fact, I just say to our listeners, if you haven't heard Christopher's story, go to familylifetoday.com and listen to the podcast of your story. It's a remarkable story that took you from dental school to drug dealing to prison. And along the way, same sex attraction. And you were living in the gay lifestyle and in prison, you started reading the Bible. You got sidetracked and confused and wound up in prison. God gets a hold of your life. You got out of prison. It was funny. You said, I got out of prison and you wound up as a student at Moody Bible Institute. And everybody was complaining about the rules and you went, hey, the rules are great.

What rules? I can leave my room when I want to. That's right. That's right. This book, Holy Sexuality and the Gospel, is moving away from memoir and moving into let's grapple with what the Bible has to say about this issue. A lot of prayer, a lot of blood, sweat, and tears going into writing this book.

Yes. Essentially, my first book, which I think was really unique, written from a mother and a prodigal. Not many stories are out there helping mothers to see this is what my kid is thinking. But I introduced this concept toward the end of my book that I just use this phrase, holy sexuality. And I just introduced that concept. So this was in 2011 that my first book came out. And since then, I knew I had to flesh that concept out.

So it took all this time to do that. Essentially, my book is a theology of sexuality, not to scare people away with theology because we think I'm not a theologian. But actually, that's not true. We're all theologians. If we are a Christian, if we have any knowledge of God, essentially theology is knowledge of God, then we are theologians. So that was my hope with this new book.

And I'll add this. As I read it, yeah, it's full of theology. It's very grounded in theology, but it's very practical. I mean, I tell the listeners, read it because it isn't just theology. It's the foundation you have to have. And I want to make sure you define holy sexuality, but then how do you live it out?

But let's go there. I had this amazing theology professor my first year at Moody, and he told us bad theology leads to apathy. Good theology compels you into action. And so that's why I want to give people good theology that you can't sit on your seat anymore.

You can't sit on your rear anymore. You have to go and do the work of God. So essentially holy sexuality is this. It's two paths, either chastity and singleness or faithfulness in marriage. That completely and accurately and precisely tells us how we all should live. Now, when you say chastity and singleness, that encompasses not just our behavior, but it encompasses how we approach our thought life. It's bigger than just what are your actions, right?

That's right. And I'd explain it more, and I fill those words in a little bit, but why did I use chastity? Why did I use singleness? Why faithfulness? Why marriage? Chastity, it's more than just abstinence. Abstaining is just not doing something.

God doesn't give us a call of no. That's why I like chastity. Chastity is about purity, holiness, wholeness, faithfulness. So that's why I like that word chastity much better than just merely not doing something. Singleness, I'm not using the word celibacy either. We all have to admit, words matter, and words oftentimes have layers of meaning.

No matter what you might say, well, I mean that word this way, well, we have to recognize how others, and sometimes the majority of others, view a word. So more precisely, just singleness, which is the state of being unmarried. Not necessarily vocation or calling or whatever, which maybe some are, but I minister to too many people who are unmarried who say, I didn't choose this.

So that's why I chose singleness. Faithfulness, again, focusing on the act. You know, sometimes people say, well, chastity, because chastity could also mean just being faithful to your spouse.

Well, but I want to be more than that. I'm open to marriage, so if God provides for me a woman to marry, I don't want to just be, you know, you're the only woman that I'm going to be sexually intimate with. You're the only woman that I'm going to, no, it's going to mean much more than that, right? I mean, as a single man, I don't have that experience, but I know that that's what I want to commit to. It is being faithful to her, not only physically, emotionally, relationally, spiritually, and committed to her. And that's why I chose that word faithfulness, as opposed to just other words. We often talk about the fact that keeping your vows in marriage doesn't mean just staying married, because you vowed more than that. When you're talking about faithfulness, you're saying sexual intimacy is not just about exclusivity, it's about more than that.

That's right. Let me jump back to singleness, because we've got folks who are wondering what should my sexuality look like in that season when I'm single. And listening to those words, this is a high bar, like especially in today's culture, you're setting a high bar.

So what does that look like? Yeah, well, I mean, I think we need to first realize that we have to distinguish ourselves from the world, because the world is really saying your sexuality should delight you, and it should define you. And I look at God's word and it's like, no, Christ should delight me. Christ should define me.

That's the big difference. And I don't want to sound trite or just make it sound like I'm just making it overly simplistic. It's not. But if we look at, since the Reformation, the Reformers talking about union with Christ, I'd like to see that how pastors and people in seminaries and our teachers are coming back to that and helping us to really understand what that means. I see that as that is our identity in Christ. So we need to first recognize how that is incorrect, the world's thinking about, we need sex. People talking about like this abstinence only program. There is one congresswoman that even said that not only is that unfair, it's cruel.

Really. I mean, to not have sex, that's cruel? And so we need to resist that. But again, how we live should not simply be a no. There has to be much more to what God is really compelling us to. And we need to realize that God has given us affection. And these affections for relationship are real. I'm not saying, though, that I think our desire to have nonsexual, nonromantic desires are part of our sexuality.

I don't think they are. Because if we go that route, then that would make everyone at this table gay or bi or whatever, right? I mean, my mother has a best friend, a sister in the Lord that she desires to be close with.

That then doesn't make her lesbian. So instead of just saying how do we deal with our sexuality, I think how do we deal with our desires for intimacy? And that intimacy could be physical, that intimacy could be relational, et cetera. And that, to me, points us to then the true family, which is the church. And that was one of my goals with writing my book. I felt that there were, you know, any author, when they write a book, they don't want to just write another book and just add something in that kind of someone else has already said. What I kind of felt lacking in many of the previous books on homosexuality was this absence of the local church.

They were talking about we need to do this, we need to do that, and good things, or even talking about the biblical texts and the ethics, you know, is it right or is it wrong, and how clearly scripture says that same-sex relationships are not God's will. But then there was this missing piece of the church, because for me, the church was a key part of my growth and my healing and my freedom. Without that, there isn't any. Because, yes, like I just said before, union with Christ, that's everything. But then we focus so much just upon kind of just the person of Jesus Christ that we then forget about the body of Christ.

You can't love Christ without loving the body of Christ. And when you say the church is vital here, you're not saying you really need to make sure you attend a couple of services in a month. You're talking about active engagement with biblical community. Yes, and discipleship. Actually, that's how I ended my book, Discipleship. And anyone in ministry, they talk about discipleship. But when I look at how discipleship is done, I don't see it done the way that the Bible tells us to. Discipleship is not a support group. Not to say that support groups are not helpful.

I think they are. But support groups are not meant to replace discipleship. And the context in which discipleship is meant to occur is the body of Christ, which means having headship, which means having someone speaking into your life. Like me and my best friend, that's not discipleship.

That's friendship. You know, that can be accountability. But God has provided us the body of Christ with pastors and leaders who are to be our spiritual shepherds to guide us in that. And unfortunately, I see that kind of a missing link, almost an afterthought, sometimes in this conversation.

So that's why I want to kind of infuse that back into the conversation. And yet so many people, I think, as a pastor, I'm always thinking of the person that's not coming to my church or any church. So the unchurched single guy, married guy, you name it, out there who my perspective would be. And this is how I thought before I ever got part of a Christ-centered community church. I thought the last place I want to go to think about my sexuality is church.

Yes. I know what they think. I know their theology. Whether I did or not, I thought I did.

And I know what the people there are like. So everything you're saying right now, I'm thinking, well, the average guy is like, I'm not going there. Right. Because when you even say the word holy sexuality, I know what it means. If I'm an unchurched guy, it means no sex ever. And, you know, those Christians never do have sex. And if they do, it's only for reproduction.

Sex is bad. Right. Exactly. And you already talked about it.

It's got to be more than a no. So talk to that guy who's like, why would I even want to know what a church? And woman. Yeah. And yeah, just that.

Unchurched person who's got a mindset like so many people listen to the culture thinking this is my identity. Why would I go anywhere that combines holy, which means God, and sexuality together? How can that be a good thing?

Yeah. And this is why I want us to make the first thing the first thing. So if I had a guy that I'm talking to who doesn't know Christ and he's wrestling with his sexuality, whether it's heterosexual promiscuity or whether, you know, it's same sex relationships, whatever it is, you know, and those things that aren't blessed by God, you know, especially if it's heterosexual promiscuity or even maybe he's committed to his girlfriend alone, but they're not married. So these aren't things that are blessed by God. And if I know that they're not a Christian, I'm not really going to address the sexuality. And they might come at me and have these questions. Well, what do you think about sex before marriage?

What do you think about same sex marriage? And I'm going to say, you know what, let's put that on the back burner and let's focus on the first thing. And that is, is there even a God? Because honestly, why does it matter what God thinks if you don't even believe in God? Right.

So let's go to the first thing. And this is why I think as a Christian, sometimes we forfeit our responsibility to preach and share the gospel, and we push it into the hands of the church and the pastor. Like, you know, I want my neighbor to know Christ, so I've invited him to church. Well, great, but have you invited him into your home and share the gospel or at least, and I'm not saying you need to just hit people over the head.

Tell them your story. Yes, right. I mean, like Rosario Butterfield.

Right. Pastor Smith, he knew how hard-headed she was. And I'm saying that because I know her really well. And she needed to be just softened. You need to live the gospel before to preach the gospel.

So I think we need to make the first thing first. It's faith in Christ. As Rosario says so well, I was not saved out of homosexuality. I was saved out of unbelief. As a guy who does not know Christ, I'm just going to live the gospel, invite him into my life, and wait for those God moments to then be able to share the gospel. And then once God begins working in that person's life and the Holy Spirit is indwelling in that person and changing, then we're able to address these other issues because they have, their mind has gone from darkened understanding to be enlightened in Christ.

I've shared this story before, but it's because it had such a profound impact on me for the first time. I heard it. Tim Keller, who was the pastor for years at Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York, in his early years there, he said, whenever he would get done preaching, he'd say, Amen, and all these New Yorkers would flood forward and say, I got a question for you. He said, I learned how to preach because the New Yorkers were asking me questions and I realized this is what I need to be talking about. He said, one Sunday, a woman comes forward and there's a whole crowd around me. And she says, I have a question for you.

She said, I've been coming here for three or four weeks. I'm thinking I might want to join the church. She said, I'm a lesbian.

Would I have to give up my lesbian relationship to be a member here at the church? So here he is in front of the firing squad, right, with that question. Everybody turns and looks at the pastor in New York and says, how are you going to answer this one?

And it was brilliant. He said, I think you're asking the wrong question. And she said, what do you mean? He said, well, I think you need to be asking the question, who do you think Jesus is and do you believe he is who we have been saying he is and who we believe he is? If you don't, then there's no sense in joining a church.

If you do, that's going to have implications for every area of your life, not just your sexuality, every area of your life. But if he is who we say he is, you don't have any other option than to surrender to him. That's right.

And I thought, boy, you talk about defusing a bomb. But he did the same thing you're talking about, saying somebody comes and says, I want to know about this question or that question. You say, well, let's just pull back and just say, what do you believe about God?

Who do you believe Jesus is? What do you think this is all about? Yeah. I mean, and it's taken, you know, Jesus's words. If anyone would come after me, I mean, that's all of us. It's not just some. Anyone in the Greek means anyone. Right. And it doesn't mean just pastors, just missionaries, just church leaders.

Anyone would come after me. He, she must. That's must, you know, not sort of, not maybe. Must deny himself, pick up his cross and follow me. That's a radical. And even this carrier cross, Luke adds daily.

I think we've misunderstood that. We think carrier crosses carry this burden. You know, so, okay, my, my boss, he's just, you know, he's an unbeliever and he's just so hard on me. You know, I just, that's, I just have to carry my cross and I just have to grit and bear it. The cross in first century Greco-Roman world, and actually any time in history, is probably the most gruesome form of death anyone could ever experience. That is what we're supposed to carry.

That's the symbol of that. And so we need to die. I don't know how else to sanitize that, but it is about just death to self so that Christ can live in us. And that's, to me, that's a glorious thing because I know what I'm capable of and I want Christ to be living in me.

So let's say, let's get down to some practical things. Let's say I have my son or my daughter or my friend or coworker come up and tell me I have same-sex attraction or I am living a lifestyle that the church wouldn't accept. What's the best response, you know, because everybody's like, I don't want to say the wrong thing.

I don't want to. When you think about if somebody is carrying that cross, that they're having these desires and they're not knowing what to do, but they do want to follow Jesus. So are you saying the best thing we can do is to love them, to love them to Christ? Well, okay, so first, yes, it is love. And I kind of begin in my book, though, kind of tweaking that statement a little bit because the world says love is love is love, right?

We just need to love the gay community and the Christians, what you're doing, you're not loving. So my point actually is that I don't find the issue is that we need to be more loving. I believe we need to know what that love is grounded in. All love is grounded in truth. If you have the wrong truth, you will have the wrong love.

If you have the correct truth, you will have the correct format. And if you have God's truth, you will then be able to love as God loves. If you have a loved one that comes to you and confides with you, opens up, I suggest the first thing is to thank them. Thank you.

And so you know what? I know how hard it was for you to open up to me. Thank you for trusting me. Thank you for opening up to me.

Tell me more. One thing you don't want to do as a parent is say that, thank you, and then it'll say, I love you. Don't follow that up right at that moment with but. And the reason, I'm not saying that you don't believe that anymore. I'm just saying for that moment, that precious moment that's going to be kind of seared in their image for decades, for that moment, just listen.

Save that but for later. Especially if it's maybe a rebellious child that says, I'm gay and I have a boyfriend and I'm moving me out. I would say, thank you for telling me. I know how hard it was.

I want you to know I love you no matter what. Save the but for another conversation. Because if you say that but at that moment, you've just erased what you've just said.

That's right. They won't remember anything that you said. You better have more conversations after that because then you could talk about, and honestly, I can almost guarantee, if you're living for Christ, if you're in God's word and you're going in Christ, they know what you believe.

But what they are questioning is whether you're going to accept them or not. We're going to talk more about these kinds of interactions as we continue our conversation this week. And you deal with this in the book, Holy Sexuality and the Gospel. I just keep coming back, guys, to what is at the heart of what we've talked about today.

Pretty simple, chastity and singleness, faithfulness and marriage. We live in a culture today that just says, that's crazy. That's not how you think or act. And I would add, and I'm sure we all agree, it is simple. It's not easy.

Yeah. It's actually simple and very profound in terms of how to live it out. But I love the clarity of the simplicity of it.

And I'm looking forward to talking more about, okay, what does that actually look like to live out? Because it is not easy. Right. That doesn't mean it's bad.

It means it's worth pursuing because it's a high bar that's worth living for. Well, when you got a book here that, again, I'm going to come back to what Rosaria Butterfield said, the most important humanly composed book about biblical sexuality and godly living for our times, that's worth getting a copy of and spending some time reading. I mean, she's saying it's right up there with the Bible.

Well, she... What's she saying about that? It's like, wow. Yeah.

Yeah, it's pretty significant. And it is a great book, although I wouldn't put it at the Bible level. We've got copies of Christopher's book, Holy Sexuality and the Gospel. It's available in our Family Life Today resource center. You can order it from us online at familylifetoday.com or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. So again, the title of the book, Holy Sexuality and the Gospel, Sex, Desire and Relationships Shaped by God's Grand Story, by our guest today, Christopher Yuan. You can go to familylifetoday.com to order your copy online or call to order at 1-800-358-6329.

That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. You know, we hear from so many of you regularly about how important it is for us to have these kinds of conversations to help all of us think wisely, biblically, compassionately on subjects like this. And we just want to say thank you to the listeners who make these kinds of conversations possible for all of us. Those of you who are regular legacy partners who donate monthly to support Family Life Today and those of you who make an occasional contribution from time to time, every donation we receive helps extend the reach of this ministry, making it possible for us to regularly interact with more people more often around important subjects like this.

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We talked about them earlier this week. The books 100 Ways to Love Your Husband, 100 Ways to Love Your Wife, very practical ways we can express our love for one another. The books are our thank you gift to you when you make a donation today. Again, online at familylifetoday.com or by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. Thanks in advance for your support and we hope you enjoy the books and find them helpful in your marriage. And we hope you can join us again tomorrow when we're going to talk about how critical it is for us to understand the reality of our identity in Christ.

Our identity as children of God as we deal with all kinds of temptations, including sexual temptation. Christopher Yuan will be with us again tomorrow. Hope you can be here as well. Want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Got some extra help from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Anne Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas. A crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.