Nicole Phillips remembers having a conversation with a friend and Nicole was venting about her husband. I was just letting my husband have it. He wasn't there, but I was saying to her, I can't believe it. You know, he came home and he expected me to have the kids all bathed and I just went on.
I don't know all these things. And yeah, and he travels for work all the time and he never even acknowledges that I put a note in his suitcase every week. And Andrea sits there and she lets me go. And then she says, and he cheats on you. And I looked at her and I said, no, he does not. She goes, yeah, but he gambles all of your money away.
And when he has any free time at all, he always likes to spend it with his buddies. And then all of a sudden the light went on and I said, I get it. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.
I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. It's a choice for us, the things we decide to allow our minds and hearts to focus on, to dwell on. Nicole Phillips says we should choose kindness. We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.
Thanks for joining us. I had something happen to me when I was a junior in high school that really marked me. You can remember that long ago. Back in my day, I'll tell you the truth. I was standing by my locker and I was talking to Becky Voss and Becky was a senior and I was a junior. So the fact that I was talking to a senior girl was pretty cool. So we're just chatting about stuff and somebody, there was a group of like three girls who walked down the hall and saw Becky and said something about her, not to her, but about her loud enough so that she could hear it. I don't remember what it was, but it was something obnoxious, something... Mean.
Yeah. Girls never do that in high school, do they? So I heard it and I looked, first of all, to see who are those girls and what are they saying? And then the next thought was, how's Becky going to respond? She had to have heard this. And I looked at her and I'm thinking, is this going to be like roller derby going to break out in the... Because a good fight between girls in the high school hall is something you all look forward to during the school day.
So I thought maybe they'll get into it and they'll fight. And I looked at Becky and at first there was this look on her face that was kind of like shock. She'd just gotten slapped verbally. And then she took a breath, she looked at me and she said, you know, she's probably having a really bad day.
And I thought, you're not for real, right? How gracious. That would be your response to this act of unkindness. And I've never forgotten that because she modeled kindness in the face of adversity. We're talking about kindness this week. And it's such a powerful quality in relationships, in our own lives.
When we become intentionally focused on being kind people, God does a transforming work in the midst of that. And we're talking about that with our friend Nicole Phillips, who is joining us. Welcome back. I love all of you.
Good job, Dave. And good luck getting me out of here because I just love hanging with you. I'm just really tempted to say something mean about you right now. Go for it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's see what happens. I'm not. I'm going to put her in my pocket and take her head. You and Nicole just kind of morphed together instantly.
We're twins. I know. Right. And part of it is because you've had the experience of going from inner meaning, which she talks about in her book. I love that term, inner meaning, which is a chapter title. The inner meaning, isn't it?
It was going to be the title of the whole book until the publisher got a hold of it. Yeah. Like how do you deal with your inner meaning? Yes. Yeah.
I think that we both used to be inner meanings and we've learned like that doesn't get you anywhere. Yeah. So you've had this experience now for 10 years of looking for and proactively seeking to be kind, not just to your husband and to your kids, but to strangers.
Absolutely. And I'd love to say that it's because I want to spread light to everyone in the world. But there are days when I have to do an act of kindness to get out of my life, out of my own mind, because I have struggled with depression in the past. And, you know, I can feel when that dark cloud wants to come rolling in now.
And I know instantly that I have to be proactive about rerouting that day. Doing an act of kindness or being kind to somebody gets you out of that darkness? Yes.
And it's based on God's great works, but it's also based on physiological principles. So, for instance, there was one day when I woke up and I was feeling terrible and just really crabby and upset about a few things. And I went to the gas station and I bought a two liter of Mountain Dew, big old bottle of Mountain Dew. That'll do it.
Yeah. And I took it. I didn't drink it.
I took it to my neighbor who lived down the hill. She lived in a very shabby chic, only there was no chic about this little cabin. And she's a grandmother and she's raising four kids.
All of the grandkids' parents are in prison. And so the only thing I really knew about this woman was that she would stand on her front porch and drink a two liter of Mountain Dew. So I stopped at the gas station, bought the two liter of Mountain Dew, parked in front of this woman's house, walked up, knocked on her door. And when she answered the door, I was like, hi, I'm Nicole. And I handed her the Mountain Dew, just kind of shoved it at her.
And she looked at me and she was like, I said, I just want you to have this. And I was still grumpy at that moment, but I turned around and I got back in my car. And as I was driving home, I couldn't help but giggle at myself like that was kind of fun. I wonder what she's thinking right now. And in that moment, like the rest of the day, I was just thinking about me being so obnoxious with this Mountain Dew.
It brought a little bit of joy to you. Did you ever follow back up on her? Did you ever? Yes, she and I became very good friends after that. Really?
Yes. You were her Mountain Dew supplier. I was her Mountain Dew supplier.
Yes, her grandkids became friends with my kids. And I actually had the privilege of taking one of her grandsons to the women's prison an hour and a half away where his mom was incarcerated. And that was a really big deal because when I was a young child, my mom fell in love with the prison inmate. And I spent every other weekend at the prison with my mom's husband because she ended up marrying him.
So being able to go back into the prison as an adult and being able to get over any shame or fear or judgment I might have had about that time in my life, and instead know that I was allowing this mother this great privilege of being able to see her son, only God can do that. And it's crazy that it started with a two-liter Mountain Dew. And it started with a two-liter Mountain Dew. And a bad mood. And a bad mood.
A simple act of kindness. I know that, I mean, I'm not going to tell Ann what to tell, but as we were writing our parenting book, she would write a chapter I'd write, and I'd sometimes read her chapter and didn't even know what she wrote. And she was talking about how to communicate with teenagers your faith and talking about that time sitting at the table talking about the woman you picked up, the drunk woman in Detroit. Yeah, because there's a- I mean, she does this all the time.
And I'm like, you picked up who, where, when? I've shared this before. Share it again.
I haven't heard it. Okay. Okay, friend. Okay. So, you know, you have teenagers. With teenagers, sometimes as you're talking about Jesus, they can be like, whatever, Mom, you know, here you go again. Yes. And I realize instead of just sharing God's Word, and I just need to share the overflow of my life.
This is what God's teaching me. This is what happened today. And so I'm like, okay, you guys, I have to tell you what happened today. And at this point, they're kind of used to like, okay, she's got the craziest stories.
And so they perk up their ears a little bit, all sons. And I said, so today, I was in another city, and I was driving, and I noticed out of the corner of my eye, there was a lady that fell down on the sidewalk. She was probably in her 50s. And I went by just thinking, oh, poor lady. And I realized, like, I had that nudge of the Holy Spirit, like, go back and get her, help her. And I'm thinking, this is a new city. I don't know if it's safe, you know.
Is this safe for me to pick her up? And so I went back. I turned back around. And you know that nudge, like, is this God? Is this me? Is this God?
Is this me? And I thought, well, I'm just going to do it. So I go, and I realize she is so drunk.
And it's probably one o'clock in the afternoon. And so I pull into a driveway that she's going to be coming up to, and I get out of my car. And this is so bad, like, all the things I like to keep my car clean, and I'm thinking, what if she throws up in my car? You know, I'm thinking all these things, like, it's okay. And I feel like I'm talking to Jesus, this whole, like, Jesus, what do you think?
Should I get her? And he's like, I would get her. And so anyway. So I say, hey, I'm Ann. How are you doing today? She goes, I'm having a great day.
And I said, I'm wondering, it seems like it's kind of hot today. Would you like a ride home? And she's like, yes. And so I help her. She's staggering.
She has this huge bag with her. And I put her in the car, and I start driving. I said, do you worry, do you live?
And she said, um, and I'm thinking, oh, no, she doesn't know where she lives. And I said, her name's Mary. I'm like, Mary, I felt like Jesus loves you so much.
And I felt like he pointed you out to me like, hey, you should pick her up and tell her how much I love her. And I told her that, and she goes, I just love Jesus. And so we start talking a little more, and she finds her way home. She gets to her apartment building, and she has to sit down on the sidewalk because she can't find her keys.
And she starts taking things out of her purse. And she finally finds her keys, and I hug her real tight, and I hold her. And I just said, don't forget how much Jesus loves you. Don't forget how much he sees you. Like, he really sees you every day, and whatever you're going through, he wants to carry it with you. And, you know, she hugs me back, but it's exactly what you're talking about, Nicole.
I feel this sense of, like, I felt so good, felt so good to do that. So I'm telling our boys at the table, and they're like, mom, that is just dumb. Like, she could have taken you out. You know, she could have beaten you up. And I said, I thought about it, and I thought, I looked at her like she was drunk enough that I thought I could take her. But those are the kind of stories that started becoming just a normal conversation.
Yes. Because as God's children, we're God's hands, and his feet were his mouth. And so why wouldn't we do something that Jesus would do? And you write in your book, Why We Don't.
I love that. In your book, you say, why wouldn't we do kind things for people? And you say, fear.
Fear. You know, but I will say that not every commission is mine. You know, God doesn't always place on my heart to give money to somebody who's standing at the corner. Not always. I'll see somebody, you know, who might need a ride or a hitchhiker. God doesn't always lay on my heart to do that. But when he does, and when we follow, we find out that, yes, it was indeed the Holy Spirit.
Wasn't Nicole talking to herself or Ann talking to herself? And I don't get that all the time either. I don't just pick up random drunk people on the sidewalk.
Yes, she does. Every person we walk by. But, you know, I don't know, Bob, do you remember this name, Sid Lobackster? Yeah. We were at a staff training with crew in the early 80s.
So we're just newly married. And there's, I don't know, five, six thousand of staff with the crew ministry for our every two years national staff training. Long story short, great speakers, every session's unbelievable.
And then I'll never forget, I'm sitting in the balcony of Moby Gym at Fort Collins, Colorado, way in the back. And they start introducing the guy who's going to speak next. And they said he's like 90 years old, I think, or late 80s.
Jay Sidlobackster, he's written a book called Explore the Book, a commentary in the Bible. And I'm like, okay, that's good. I go, he's 90? They're bringing a guy up who's 90? I literally thought they're like, what are we doing?
Should we stay for this session? We were in our 20s at the time. Yeah.
I mean, we're young and I'm just judging right away, you know? And this guy walks on stage and he is a ball of energy. And he, I remember he goes over and jumps on the piano and starts jamming like Jerry Lee Lewis something. I'm like, you know, I'm a musician.
I'm in a band. I'm like, he's got me, man. I'm like, this guy is awesome. And he gets up and I can't tell you what he talked about. But I remember one thing he said, and I've never forgotten it.
This is 40 some years ago. He said, let me tell you, when you're stuck in your spiritual life, you know, you're just lukewarm and nothing's happening and you're just sort of dry. He was, you know what you need to do? And I'm sitting there thinking, get in the Bible, go to church. Praise. You know, I was just, he's going to go where we all go. And he goes, here's what you need to do. You need to get your coat on, walk out that door and walk down the street and find somebody that needs help and help them. Yes.
Help them for somebody else and share the love of Jesus with some guy you don't even know. And I'm telling you, there's going to be a fire come back to your spiritual walk that you didn't even see coming. I'm like, really?
Oh, we both sat there. And he's right. He is so right. You think I got to pray more. And of course, all those things are great.
Spiritual disciplines are awesome. But when you, it's what you're saying in your book, when you just take the love of Jesus that's in you and give it away. And I'll add this, my youngest son's senior year, instead of saying you're going on a senior trip with all your friends, we're going to go on something together. So grab your best buddy. We end up in Florida on a little vacation.
That's a big deal when you're from Michigan, right? And I can't tell you one thing about that trip except this moment. We're driving around in our rental car and we're late to something and I'm grumpy.
And they're in the back, Cody and Matt, and they're just being ornery. I'm negative. I'm not having a good time. And we're on a vacation.
And it's my son's senior year, my last son. It's like, I should be making this good. I'm just a bad mood. Somehow I get lost and there I am. When I'm in a car and people are driving slow and I'm lost, I'm not a happy camper. In our meanie.
Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, I turn into this little cul-de-sac and got to turn around. And Ann's been there a million times when she sees me whipping the car.
So I turn into this cul-de-sac and we're just about to turn around and got to go the other way. And we see this car stuck, not in Michigan snow, in Florida sand. I am not kidding. I didn't know that was a thing. They can't get this car out of the sand.
The wheels are spinning. And we look over there and we're like, hey, we should stop and help them. I'll never forget it. This older woman was just, she couldn't get out and she was almost in tears.
Like she couldn't, it was like a real deal. You can't get out. And so we got behind there and we pushed and we pushed and we pushed and finally that thing came out. And when we got back in the car, my whole negative attitude was gone. It was like, bam, we helped somebody. We did a good deed. I don't remember a single thing of that trip, but that moment saying that was the right thing to do. And I feel better. That's what you've said throughout this whole book.
It really does do that. And you give some helps like, okay, here's where we can go. You say, how do we say no to the negatives? And you have six things that I think are super helpful. One is make a decision to stop saying negative words. Boy, stop with the first one. How do you stop saying negative words?
Because I want to stop them. But yeah, you make a decision. It's that easy?
Yes. We're back in 1 Peter 3 here where it says, keep your tongue from evil. If you have to grab your tongue. Grab it.
Grab it. If you, the word's coming out and you go, I should not, you grab the tongue and stop it. And we're discipling our kids by our words. If we're always negative, we're just breeding that in our homes. Number two, get an accountability partner. Sometimes we can't hear ourselves appoint someone to point it out. Now that's tricky. That is tricky.
You have to find somebody who is very gentle with you, but also very truthful with you. Did you have that? I did have that. And it's my very best friend, Andrea, who lives in Fargo, North Dakota. And I will remember always the day that I was sitting on her couch and I was just letting my husband have it. He wasn't there, but I was saying to her, I can't believe it. You know, he came home and he expected me to have the kids all bathed.
And I just went on, I don't know, all these things. And yeah, and he travels for work all the time and he's never home. And I even do his laundry for him and I put notes in his suitcase every week.
And he never even acknowledges that I put a note in his suitcase every week. And Andrea sits there and she lets me go. And then she says, and he cheats on you. And I looked at her and I said, no, he does not. She goes, yeah, but he gambles all of your money away. And I said, Andrea, stop it. And she goes, yeah.
And when he has any free time at all, he always likes to spend it with his buddies. And I just looked at her and then all of a sudden the light went on and I said, I get it. She said, Nick, your husband is a good man. Right?
Like what? Yes. And I needed her to say that to me because in that moment I knew my words mattered. Even if my husband was nowhere to hear them, I was hearing them.
And again, that changes my focus on things. So yes. That's a good friend. That is a good, good friend.
We all need that friend. Number three, snap that rubber band. Yeah.
So if you want to wear a rubber band around your wrist, and these are things that I would say, do all of them simultaneously. And you're going to see a drastic change in the way that you look at the world within a month. But you wear a rubber band and when you can feel yourself thinking a negative thought before words even come out of your mouth, when you feel that negative thought, pull that rubber band and let go and it'll pinch. Right. It'll snap. And so that is a physical reminder to your mind that we're not going to do that anymore.
We're going to move away from that behavior. I read a book and did a Bible study with the Lion's Wives called What It's Like To Be Married To Me. It was a great book. That was an exercise in her book, too. Wear a rubber band. When you start thinking negative about your husband, you snap it.
These women came to the Bible study next week and their wrists were all red. Get rid of this rubber band. Number four, use a predetermined exit plan when someone starts complaining about someone. So, yes, for everyone who's listening to this, you have decided, right? You made that decision. I'm not going to say negative words.
I'm not even going to entertain negative thoughts in my head. Well, the problem is no one else around you knows that this is how you have decided to change. So let's say you're a teacher. You go into the teacher's lounge and all of the gossip starts up that always starts up. You need to know what you're going to do in that moment when that happens to maintain the integrity of the decision you've made. And so that might mean saying to somebody who asks your opinion or wants to gossip, like, you know what?
I have decided I'm going to work on having a more positive mindset, so I'm trying to keep my opinions to myself today. You know, so you can be honest that way or if you feel like this isn't an area in which you want to be so blatantly honest, get up. If you're sitting in a restaurant, if you're sitting in a teacher's lounge or, you know, a nurse's station, get up, go to the bathroom. Take a moment to regroup or go find some napkins or, you know, whatever you need to do to be able to step away from that conversation.
Allow it to wind down and then rejoin. And you know where this doesn't just happen in the teacher's lounge. Obviously, it often happens at the Bible study.
That's what I was going to say. And here's how we do it at the Bible study. We don't act like we're complaining or speaking negative. We offer it as a prayer request.
Right. I need to pray for my wife, really. And then somebody else chimes in their wife or, you know, I'm doing it nice, but it's usually it could be the other way. The wife's talking about their husband's and it can become a thing that actually feels spiritual, but we're really gossiping and speaking negative. Well, I was in a Bible study and they made a rule that you weren't allowed to pray for other people.
And I was I was put off by it. Why are we here? And they said, no, it has to be a prayer for you. So, you know, God, help me to see differently. Help me to love differently.
Help me to be a support to this person who's having a hard time. I have a friend, to your point, Dave, who quit her job because every day at work, the other women in the office were having toxic conversations about their spouse. And she began to recognize the impact that was having on how she viewed her spouse. And she said, my marriage is more important than this job.
I'll find another job. That was a big step for her to take. But she was fighting for her marriage. Nicole, I want to hear your favorite random act of kindness that you experienced. It ended up being random because I didn't know that it was going to happen this way. But five years ago, I had breast cancer and I really had learned how to renew my mind. I really learned how to stick close to God.
I really learned that I knew I needed to act with kindness when I was fearful or, you know, had worries about it. So on one particular day, I woke up at four thirty in the morning and it was raining and storming outside. It was also raining and storming in my mind on this particular day. Like it was too early in the morning. I didn't have time to renew my mind yet.
Right. So I'm laying there and I'm thinking about this breast cancer and what else it's going to take from us. And as I'm laying there looking out the window at the storm, I think about my neighbor down the street. Now, this is the same woman that we've talked about earlier that I gave the two liter of Mountain Dew to the grandmother who is taking care of her grandkids. And on her lawn was a tent. And there was a woman living in that tent who had just got out of the drug treatment program. And she woke up at every morning every morning at four thirty in the morning and she would walk to her job across town at the dry cleaners.
She was saving up to be able to find housing, but she had to be able to prove through the treatment program that she was able to sustain an income. So it's four thirty in the morning. It's raining. I know that this woman is getting up and walking in this and I'm laying in bed and I think to myself, you should really go help her.
You should give her a ride or call her a taxi or an Uber or something. There's something that you need to do. And I felt that Holy Spirit say that to me. And I said, no, it's four thirty in the morning. And now I'm getting mad. I'm having like an angry conversation with the Holy Spirit at this point. And I'm like, no, this cancer is trying to deplete us financially, physically, mentally, emotionally, everything.
Like I've got nothing left to give. I need to wallow in my own pain. Yes.
I'm going to sit here at four thirty in the morning while on my own pain. Right. So I had this heated conversation with the Holy Spirit and then I rolled over and went back to sleep. Oh, yeah.
Right. So then, of course, when I woke up later in the day, I didn't feel any better about myself. I didn't feel any better about my battle with breast cancer. But about two o'clock that afternoon, I was driving downtown and I saw this woman walking on the side of the road and her name was Dawn. And so Dawn's walking on the side of the road and I pull over my minivan and I say, hey, Dawn, how you doing? She said, good. I said, do you want to ride home? No, it's a beautiful day.
I'll walk. And I said, Dawn, did you walk to work this morning in the rain? And she said, yeah, I did.
She said, no problem, though. You know, I'm going to be able to save up for a bike. You know, by the time I get my next paycheck, I'll be able to buy the bike. And I just stopped in that moment because I knew it.
I knew what came next. The Holy Spirit was never asking me to get up at four thirty in the morning and drive this woman. The Holy Spirit was asking me to give her a bike.
Wow. So I looked at Dawn and I said, Dawn, you need a bike? I have a bike in my garage.
Come and take a look at it. And so she came and she walked up my driveway and I walked down my driveway and I pull out the bike and I said, what do you think? And she said, yeah, this is really great.
That'll be great. And, you know, I'll be sure to get it back to you right away when I can save up for a bike. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want you to have it. This is a gift.
Please keep it. She looked at me really kind of skeptically and she said, why would you do that for me? And I thought, how little kindness have you been shown?
How few breaks have you gotten in your life that this would seem so foreign to you? And I just said, you know, Dawn, I see you. I see how hard you're working to make the decision to stay clean every day.
And I bet it's not easy. Even bigger than me seeing you, God sees you. And I just want you to have this. But the big thing that that taught me through this random act of kindness is that kindness will never ask for more than you have to give. God is not going to ask for more than you have to give. You can trust him.
You can trust that even when it looks like he's going to ask you to go out on a limb and do something that really feels uncomfortable, he knows what's on the other side of that cliff. Like he knows, he knew that I could not get up at four thirty in the morning, but he knew that Dawn needed that bike. And so he allowed me to be the connector there. Yeah, I just thought, you know, you say kindness is about the giver, the receiver and the witness. So I'm a witness. We're witnesses right now. You being the giver and Dawn being the receiver. And I'm tearing up. Simple kindness is powerful.
And I thought, boy, oh boy. If the church was known as kind people, you wouldn't have enough seats. People be running in our doors. If our neighbors saw us as kind neighbors, you wouldn't probably have to lead them to lead them to Christ. They'd be coming to you and saying, what do you have? Because I don't see that. If our spouse felt that we were that kind to them when they didn't deserve it, I think they'd be interested in why.
And the why is Jesus. Well, and Dave, I'll take it a step farther. You don't have to give somebody a bike. Just watch your words, because everyone around us is listening and they can sense whether we're complaining about someone or something. Like, you know, your chicken tenders are burnt.
Like, are you really going to throw a fit in the middle and make somebody who's earning minimum wage feel bad? Are you going to do that or are you going to walk in the Holy Spirit and allow the Holy Spirit to say, hey, this time let it go? That's good. Our words have so much power.
And then if you can't think of any acts of kindness, you can get your book and you have 365 kindness ideas in the back that we can follow. Great job, Nicole. Thanks. Thank you for being here. Oh, I'm not leaving.
OK. Well, we'll see you back tomorrow then. We are making your book, Nicole, available to our listeners this week, any of our listeners who can help support the ongoing work of Family Life Today with a donation. We are a listener supported ministry. Family Life Today is on the air today because listeners like you said this is important for me. It's important for our community. It's important in our world.
We want to see this kind of thing grow and expand. And so you went online or you called and made a donation. Thank you to those of you who made today's program possible. And let me encourage the rest of you who are regular listeners, make tomorrow's program possible by making a donation today.
You're helping to effectively develop godly marriages and families when you do that. And we'll say thank you by sending you a copy of the negativity remedy, unlocking more joy, less stress and better relationships through kindness by Nicole Phillips. Go to familylifetoday.com to make your online donation or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate by phone. Again, the website to donate is familylifetoday.com or you can call to donate 1-800-358-6329.
That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life and then the word today. You know, what we've talked about today I think is vital really for every marriage, for every family to have a mindset shift where we're focused on positivity, where we're focused on kindness. David Robbins, who is the president of Family Life is here with us. You agree that this is foundational? You know, I've loved listening today because it really lifts my eyes above my current realities into having hope and joy beyond current situations.
It reminds me of a friend who went skydiving and as she was facing the ground going through the air, the person that she was in tandem with forced her head up and looked to the west where he was making her see the sunset. And I think that's what we desire to do at Family Life is lifting our eyes to the eternal perspective, lifting our eyes to the hope we have in Christ, lifting our eyes to what's possible in our relationships and the grander horizon that God has called us to and the joy that he's offered us. And I hope that's what you encounter when you listen to Family Life today and that's why I'm so grateful for Legacy Partners, generous partners who give monthly to Family Life in order for us to keep bringing that hope, to keep lifting people's heads, to keep pointing people to Jesus and the grander narrative that he's invited us into. Thank you so much Legacy Partners for being a part of what we do. Yeah, we are grateful for your ongoing support and we hope all of you can join us again tomorrow. We're going to hear a conversation about what it's like to be a second wife, to have the shadow of a first marriage and a first wife hanging over your current marriage. It's a fascinating conversation.
Hope you can join us for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help today from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-12-11 23:56:58 / 2023-12-12 00:11:32 / 15