Like any mom, Vanitha Reisner was filled with joy when she gave birth to her son Paul. Seven weeks later, when, because of a doctor's mistake, Paul died, Vanitha had a lot to process spiritually. I was mad at God. I thought we did all the right stuff. And that was sort of the theology I had in some ways is, you do the right stuff, you pray, you read the Bible, you trust God. Then ultimately, everything's really going to be OK. And I would just think, God, you let me trust that Paul would be OK. You let him go through a surgery and live. And then you took him.
So I would say I was pretty upset with God. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com.
We'll hear from Vanitha Reisner today about how she wrestled with God over this seemingly senseless tragedy in her own life. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.
Thanks for joining us. I think maybe one of the greatest sources of joy for any parent is when you find out that you're going to have a baby. Oh, yeah. That first moment, I remember Mary Ann showing up at work in the middle of the day. She walks up to the front of the radio station where I was working and I thought, what's my wife doing up here at the radio station? And she was walking strong and confident and smiling. And I thought, I wonder what she's doing here. And it's because she had just come from the doctor and you had no idea.
I had no idea there was nothing. And she was beaming. She was thrilled. And if that's the case, then to find out that there's an issue with the pregnancy or a problem when the baby is born. I remember a couple in our church who in the middle of a pregnancy got the diagnosis that the child was anencephalic.
There was no brain in this child. And they faced the difficult decision to carry the baby to term to give birth to the baby who lived for six hours. And I remember the funeral. And if the joy of pregnancy and new life is on one end of the scale, then the devastation that comes when you lose a baby. When a grandchild is born, that's another one of the most exciting days. And when that pregnancy is announced, I'll never forget our first grandchild with our son and his wife telling us they bought a little Harley onesie because Dave owns a Harley and says, you're going to be a grandpa.
And we were ecstatic. But then they lost that baby and then they lost another baby and they lost another baby. It's devastating. The heartache is really tough.
Yeah. We are talking this week with a guest who has experienced the pain that we're talking about and more pain in life. In fact, her book is all about the trials of life that she's been through. Beneatha Reisner joining us again on Family Life Today. Welcome back. Thank you. It's great to be here. And she says that with such joy. I know.
This girl should get a prize. Well, and it's a joy that has been acquired through how God has met you in the midst of the adversity that you've been in. But I have to think when you read the book of Job, you go, oh, yeah, I can relate to this and this and this. I mean, we have already shared this week about how you were born with polio and it might have been diagnosed and treated properly early. But the doctors gave the wrong thing, misdiagnosed. Your immune system was compromised. Polio set in.
You had dozens of surgeries before you were 13 years old. And we've shared that experience. And we want to talk here about what you experienced as a mom, which included both miscarriages and then the birth of a son. That was one of the more painful experiences of your life. So tell us about your pregnancies and your journeys and just share your story with us.
Can you? I got pregnant after I'd been married a few years and told everyone, everybody in my office, everybody that I'd ever met. Like right away, as soon as. Yes, soon as I mean, it was just out of the gate, really excited, and then was on a business trip in New York and started bleeding and found out I was having a miscarriage.
I didn't know then. It was funny. I called the my OB and she was like, yeah, you might be OK. It might be all right. And came back just kind of hoping that everything was fine.
I was 12 weeks and went in and found out that I had had a miscarriage. And so that was the start of this feeling like life isn't going to be safe because after I had come to Christ, I had probably 15 years of and very easy life. Kind of a crazy easy life like that. That term's relative.
Because when you say easy life, you still, you know, have a disability. You're right. But it so far exceeded what I ever thought life would be. You'd graduated from the University of Virginia with a degree in business and then gone to Stanford and gotten a master's, an MBA.
Yes. And your career was fast tracking your business. I mean, yeah, life was going pretty good. You know, from what I expected from life when I was in the hospital, life was perfect.
I met a classmate in business school, got married and had a great career after that. So I thought life is good and easy. And then when I had this miscarriage, there was just the sense that, oh, wait, hard things can still happen. So then had a daughter, though, after that named Katie.
And so I was starting to feel comfortable. But then I had another miscarriage. And at that miscarriage, I did the same thing I told a lot of people because I thought, oh, I had one miscarriage, but I'm not going to have another one. So having another miscarriage really sort of shook me. Your pregnancy and your birth with Katie, everything was? Everything was fine. Okay.
All right. And then was pregnant again and went in for a 20 week ultrasound and found out our unborn son had a hypoplastic left heart. And a hypoplastic left heart basically means only half of your heart is working and the half that actually does most of the work is not working. And so we had a choice of what we could do. I was 20 weeks long and they said they really wanted me to have an abortion.
But they said, if you don't do that, these are some options. And one was having a heart transplant at birth. One was having surgery and one was doing nothing. And if you don't do anything, this condition is fatal.
So within two weeks, your child will die. So ended up doing a lot of research and chose to go up to the University of Michigan and have a three step heart surgery, which a high school friend of mine who's a pediatric cardiologist said, this is a really good option. The medicine has come so far. So we were optimistic, went up to Michigan, had the surgery and Paul was doing great. First, it was pretty dicey, but we came home and things were going really well, Bob.
And I felt like, OK, we're going to make it through this. Was the prognosis that he'll have a normal life or? Pretty much. I mean, they said it would be somewhat limited in that he couldn't play contact sports because of this, because your lungs do some of the work of your heart.
And they said like a lifespan they anticipated in their somebody's 60s and not into their 90s. But that seemed pretty good. Those are favorable odds.
Yes. So we felt pretty good about it. And the doctors thought everything was great. And then we went in for Paul's checkup and his regular cardiologist in Raleigh was not there.
And there was a substitute doctor and he looked at Paul and said, oh, my gosh, he's doing really well. I mean, he was probably 50th, 70th percent. He was some great percentile and height and weight was just thriving. And how old is he? He is almost seven weeks old.
All right. So the doctor sort of said, you know what, he doesn't need all these medicines. We had medicine that we were drawing up for him three times a day in little syringes, probably 10 different kinds of medicine. And he said, oh, he just needs a few.
Like, don't worry about this. You're going to be he's going to be fine. And so we were thrilled. We thought, OK, we are out of the woods, took him home. And then that night I was going to a baby shower for him.
That was the first time anybody had seen him. And I called my friend who had told us to go up to Michigan and just said, I just want to tell you the great news. He is off his medicine. And my friend John said, what?
Tell me that again. And I told him and he said, he needs that medicine. You need to call them and get him back on it. And it was six o'clock on a Friday night.
And I thought, oh, no, I don't even know what he's not on. I don't know what to tell them. And he said, well, just call. So I did and left a message and went to the shower. John said I didn't need to go to the E.R. So he said, I think you can wait, but call first thing Monday morning. So we went to the shower, had a really good weekend with Paul, our son. And you didn't hear back from the doctors.
No. So didn't hear anything, didn't know what to do. Which is usually good news.
Yeah, exactly. So I just thought, we're fine. And then Sunday night at like three in the morning, Paul woke up and I got up to nurse him. And he just screamed and went limp in Dave's arms. And that was this moment where I felt like, oh, no, God, you can't do this.
You can't take Paul. So we called 911 and ambulance came. And I remember just not knowing what to do. So Dave had gone in the ambulance with Paul and I was so scared. So I called John and this was before cell phones. So I called him in the middle of the night and his wife told me that he was actually out of town at some friends. It was 3 a.m. But I called John at the friend's house and John answered and said, I'm so sorry. And I remember saying, okay, but I'm going to go to the E.R., I'm going to see Paul and I need to know what medicine, what medicine does he absolutely need to be on?
What do I need to tell them? Tell me what to do. And John wouldn't answer me. All he kept saying is, I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry. And I could hear a note of hopelessness in his voice. So I hung up the phone and I got on my knees and I begged God. I begged God to save Paul's life. I remember saying, I'll do anything.
I mean, you name it. I will do it. Please, please don't take Paul's life. And then ended up some friends came over to watch Katie and I went to the E.R. When I got to the E.R., I went to the front desk and I said to them, so they would have brought my son in by ambulance.
I really want to see him. And the woman said, I'm sorry, your son is dead. And that moment is this moment frozen in time for me where I couldn't even process it.
It wasn't something I had been expecting. Went in and just saw saw Paul's little body for the last time Dave was holding him. And I could not believe that it happened to us because Paul had been doing so well and this was a doctor's mistake.
And I couldn't really reconcile that in a lot of ways with how does God care and look after his children who are praying? And it's the second doctor's mistake in your life. Yeah. Yeah. The first one was when the doctor misprescribed and that led to your polio.
Now here a doctor says you don't need this medication. And 72 hours later, your son is dead. Yes. Were you angry with God? Not at first. We had the funeral and I got up and said, God never makes a mistake. And then three weeks later, I wanted to pull every word back. I was mad at God. I thought we did all the right stuff. And that was sort of the theology I had in some ways is you do the right stuff. You pray, you read the Bible, you trust God, then ultimately everything's really going to be okay. And looking at all the clothes from Paul's baby shower, I remember looking at those so many times because I didn't know what to do with them. And every time I saw them, I would just think, God, you let me trust that Paul would be okay.
You let him go through a surgery and live and then you took him. So I would say I was pretty upset with God. So you're walking through a dark night of the soul, a valley, how long? I mean, what brought you out if and when?
It's interesting. I can't even remember the days, but it felt like months. And I need to go back and see exactly how long it was, but it was months of feeling dark. And then one day in the car, I just cried out to God. And I said, I can't do this. I can't be this far away from you. I need you to fill me with yourself.
I need you to do something. And then I put in a worship tape, actually it was a cassette tape. And all of a sudden, God's presence filled my car. And I didn't see God, but I sensed God with this joy that I couldn't contain. I remember being so ecstatically happy, thinking if this is what life with Christ is, I'll take it over anything. So you felt his presence and his joy immediately in your car?
Yes. And I had been so depressed and so angry and so hurt. And yet in my car that day, God was there and God said, you know what, no matter what you go through, you'll have me. And the me that I felt, that presence that God gave me radically changed me. From that day on, I thought, OK, God, if I know that you are here and you can do this, then I'll walk through whatever you call me to.
Let me go back to the valley, the desert that you were in. Were you trying to draw near to God and it was silent or had you given up on trying? Oh, I'd given up on trying. I'd even started trying.
I was just thinking, you know, your mom says, if you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all. And that was kind of where I was. So I had not I was so frustrated with God and sort of the theology that I had assumed was true. I was questioning everything and didn't want to talk to God. Was there anybody from your church? Was Dave?
Anybody know this is where you were and trying to to bring you back closer to the Lord? No, because I am a superficial pleaser and at least I was. And I was all about making it look pretty. So you were hiding it?
I was hiding it. Going to church? Yes, going to church. Not necessarily telling people that God was close to me.
I wasn't quite that bad, but I was not willing to let people in. So if somebody came up and said, how are you doing? I've been praying for you. You just said, thank you. That means a lot to me. Exactly. You were probably. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that.
Yeah, I did not share it with anybody, which is what made it even darker. I think people who are willing to just put it out there and say, I'm angry and I'm struggling like that. Even that can draw them to God. But I, I was just silent.
We have a close friend that just lost her 34 year old daughter. And everything you're describing is what she's describing. I feel nothing. I'm numb.
I'm angry. At least I'm encouraged that she's at least said that. But she said, I don't know how to find God again because I don't know if I can trust him.
That sounds exactly what you were feeling. What would you say to those people now? That's kind of the question. I mean, Jerry Bridges says, you know, can you really trust God when adversity comes and fills your life with pain? And that was my question.
And I would say, yes, you can. Because God, two things God taught me really throughout my life is God's going to be with you through it. That's one reason you can trust God and God's going to use it. God does have a purpose.
We may not ever see it this side of heaven. But knowing that God will walk with you and God is going to use it really does change things. And for me, it was really seeing the character of God through the Bible that really cemented my trust. Because it was soon after that that I started just poring over the Bible.
Like, I need to know you in a different way. Because when I came to know Christ when I was 16, I knew him as this God who had this great purpose for my life. And I really liked the Bible. It was a good thing to read. But through every suffering in my life, the Bible has become more and more alive to me. And I would say, after Paul's death, I learned what lament was. I didn't know that that was even a concept in the Bible.
I had heard about it. But when you read the Psalms, you see that a lot of people, the Psalmist, Asaph, David, I asked those hard questions like, where are you, God? And can I trust you? And God would answer really with himself. And I realized that's how God answered me. I didn't have a reason why Paul died.
I don't know. But God answered me with himself. It's interesting when you even talk about being in the car and the power of the moment of ascribing worth to God. I'm guessing you weren't singing, but you were listening. Or maybe you were singing. Well, I started off by listening. And by the end, I was singing. And I don't sing well, let's just put it out there. But you're in your car by yourself.
Exactly. So I could just belt it out and nobody was going to say anything. And it was incredible. So it was really in this praising God for me. And I think music can sometimes unlock things in us. And it really was just hearing the words of this song and someone ascribing to God glory just sort of washed over me. And just as I started to sing it, there was just this sense that the Holy Spirit said, this is what life is really about. It is about worshiping God and forgetting everything else. And my sister and I were talking about suffering the other day and she said, suffering is the stripping away of everything but Jesus.
And I really felt like that's what had happened, like God had stripped away everything at that moment, I thought for me, but Jesus. You were talking about learning to lament. And I think lament is certainly what we're invited into in scripture as opposed to superficiality or stoicism or denial. No, we need to be honest and real before God with what we're going through. I'm just curious, it almost feels like the talk I hear about lament these days is this is the place to stay as opposed to the place to visit.
Can you speak to that? I think true lament can never be the place to stay because when we really are talking to God, we are filled with his trust for him because we're being honest with him. And that almost always in the Bible turns to praise. There are very few times when you see someone lamenting where they don't end up praising God. You see it in Lamentations. You see it in almost every psalm except 88 where they start off saying, you know, where are you, God?
And then they end with, I trust you. And so I think if people just end up in lament all the time, I don't think that's real lament because I think that is complaining not to God, but about God. And there's a huge difference. If you just talk about God as if I can't believe God did this to me, but you're not actually saying to God, why did you do this to me?
You're going to have a very different result. And I found talking to God is what changed me. I picked up when you were saying that because of all years for me to decide, I think this year I'm going to read the Psalms. That's going to be my daily reading.
2020 starts. And I had no idea that the Psalms were going to be so apropos and healing for me because every day I felt like, what is happening? You know, the world's coming apart. And I've just what you said is like, man, so often they start with lament.
They end with praise. I mean, I was looking at Psalm 69, which I read a few days ago. It said, look at this. He says, I am worn out calling for help.
My throat is parched. My eyes fail looking for God. He is just where are you? And then sure enough, by the very end, you do not hide your face from your servant. Answer me quickly for I'm in trouble. Come near and rescue me.
Deliver me. For I know you are here. It's just it's a beautiful journey that we all have to take. And I just think it's important for us to learn to lament and to be honest in our lament. But I also think it's important that we don't think that lament is the destination, that it's the journey to take us to the destination. And the destination is where you got to in the car, praising God and worshiping God and being flooded with his presence. But it was probably took your honesty of processing what you were going through to get to where you eventually came to.
Exactly. The other question that I keep pondering is the question that all of us come back to. You had to stop and think, Lord, you could have not had that doctor be there that day and say he doesn't need these medicines anymore. How do we ascribe to the sovereignty of God these events and then say a good God ordained whatsoever comes to pass? And it meant tragedy for me. How have you processed this bad things happening to good people in God's sovereignty dilemma? I think the Book of Job is a great example for us as we see that Job's tragedies, a lot of them came from human people. I mean, people killed, the house fell on his children, but people took his servants, livestock, all of those things happened. And yet God was not the one who directly did it, but God was in it as well.
Satan needed God's permission. And Job says God gave and God took away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. And so I think realizing that God is in all of these things.
There is not a sparrow falls to the ground apart from the Father's will. And just realizing that has given me a lot of freedom that really has changed me. Taking the fear out of suffering, because if God is in it, is in everything that happens to us, whether it's a doctor's mistake or a natural disaster, there's no need to fear. You read the last part of Job where Job finally kind of lets go with God and says, OK, I'm owed some answers here, God, after all I've been through. And I can imagine after what you've been through going, OK, God, you at least ought to give me some insight into what the purpose is here so I can rest a little easier.
And Job kind of rails against God. And then God says, are we done? Have you said everything you want to say? Are you sure?
Anything else? All right, sit down. Where were you when I formed the world?
Like, who is this that knocks on my door and says this is what I'm deserved? I remember reading that for the first time and going, like, Job, I'm putting my hand over my mouth. Sometimes I'll do that same thing where I'll go to the end of Job to hear and remember what God says. Where were you when I formed and created the earth?
Where were you? And it's it's just a good reminder of God's greatness, of his goodness, of his mercy, that he's so big that we can trust him and walk with him even when it doesn't feel good. And I love the Psalms.
I love worship music because it takes our hearts back home to how good God is. And it redirects our thoughts and our lives. And it's interesting, you know, often when we're in suffering or in that valley or in that desert, the last thing we're ever going to do. I mean, I'm not going to go to church. I'm not going to pick up my Bible. I'm definitely not going to put on a worship cassette or CD or, you know, I'm just not going to do it. And, you know, when Anne's sister died of cancer at 45, when we would go to church and worship would be played, we'd weep. I'd look over and Anne would be sobbing. There's something about music that connects to your soul and I could hide everywhere else. But when I sang, it came from the depths of me and I would just weep uncontrollably to the point where this is embarrassing because I can't contain the pure depth of pain I was feeling. But there's something about worship that draws it out, doesn't it? Yes. And it's healing in a sense.
Here's my question, though. So when you get out of that car and you walk back into life, was it sustainable or in other words, yeah, it wasn't just I sang a song and everything was good after that, or was it still a struggle? It wasn't like life was radically and totally different, but there was a groundedness in Christ that was different. So I would say I still lamented.
It was still hard. I still poured over the Psalms and asked God the hard questions, but I was with God. I was talking to God. Whereas I would say for the months before that, I was not talking to God. And I think that's the most important critical piece is I started talking to God. And the more you talk to God, the more he changes you. And then there was a song written.
Yes. Tell us about that. So one of my really good friends, his name is Crystal Wells, and she had come over to our house actually after Paul had died. We talked to her a lot about what God had done in that. And she wrote a song a few months later called Held. And the first verse is all about Paul and the other two are about other friends she had that had sustained serious losses. But the first verse starts with two months is too little, but they let him go.
They had no sudden healing. And it was this amazing healing song that she sang in our church. And then she asked me months later, I am thinking about asking somebody to record it or somebody's really interested in it. What do you think about that?
And I thought, that sounds great. And it ended up being Natalie Grant. And the song is Held. And I was amazed at how healing that song has been to so many people because it really has touched them. You know, the chorus is, this is what it means to be held, how it feels when the sacred is torn from your life and you survive. And I feel like that was our story was the sacred was torn from our life and we survived and God held us in it. Yeah, I think the lyric is so beautiful because I think it's the question in all of our hearts. Am I held?
Especially in the storm in the valley. Is there a God who's got me? You know, and I think that's why so many people connected with that song because it says, yes, you are. Even when it doesn't feel like it, even when you can't see it or maybe even feel it, there are strong hands that have, they're holding you.
Yeah. And I am so grateful for not only the fact that you share your story with us, Vanitha, but that you also help us think biblically about how to make sense of the circumstances that you went through in all of this. We are this week making copies of your book available for Family Life Today listeners who can help support the ministry of Family Life Today. The book is our thank you gift to you when you make a donation to support this ministry.
Let me just say a word. When you donate to Family Life Today, what you're really investing in is providing practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families, hundreds of thousands of marriages and families every day. People who are connecting with us here at Family Life on our website through this radio program or podcast, those of you who connect with us at our events or who use our resources, Family Life Today listeners who support this ministry, you make all of that possible anytime you make a donation. We're so grateful for our regular legacy partners, those of you who donate each month to support this ministry, and those of you who are able from time to time to help with the donation, we're grateful for you as well. If you make a donation today, be sure to ask for your copy of Vanitha Reisner's book, Walking Through Fire, and we'll send it to you as a way of saying thank you for your support. You can donate online at familylifetoday.com or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy.
Again, the title of the book is Walking Through Fire, a Memoir of Loss and Redemption by Vanitha Reisner. You can request your copy when you donate to Family Life Today online at familylifetoday.com or by calling 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone and be sure to ask for your copy of Vanitha's book when you get in touch with us. And we hope you can join us again tomorrow when Vanitha will share with us about another turn in your life.
Again, this just kind of feels like it all just gets piled on, but when you learned that your husband was being unfaithful to you, we'll talk about that tomorrow. Hope you can be with us for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some help today from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team, of course, pitched in on this program. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We will see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.
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