Helping The Abused

There's a word in Scripture that describes a particular kind of abuser. It's the word oppressor. How can you tell if you're married to someone who is an oppressor?

Here's counselor and author Darby Strickland. What drives an oppressor is they have a heart that is entitled. They want things the way they want them. They make rules that don't apply to them. I've had women that tell me I have to stir my tea a certain way. I have to load the dishwasher a certain way.

I can only wear this hairstyle. Oppressors usurp God's position and they really demand to be worshipped. They feel self-righteous. They don't have a need for Christ.

They're really in a very dangerous spiritual position. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. What if you're married to an oppressor?

What do you do? We're going to talk today with Darby Strickland about that. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. Ann, I know you have talked to women throughout the years, both in the church, in your interaction with football, wives, at Weekend to Remember Getaways, women who have come up to you and have maybe been bold enough to say, there's stuff happening in our marriage that I'm uncomfortable with. I'm being abused by my husband. In that moment, you find yourself going, what do I say?

How do I help somebody in this immediate situation? What have you said in those situations? It is interesting, at the Weekend to Remember, we have had a booklet for years that we put on the stage called A Way of Hope. And we say upfront, we're going to put these little pamphlets on the stage.

And if you know someone that is being abused in any way, physically, domestically, spiritually, pick this up. And in my heart, I'm always thinking, oh, nobody will pick these up. There could be 40 on the stage.

And almost every single time, all of those booklets are gone. Yeah. Yeah, I know that, you know, on Sunday morning at the Weekend to Remember, we split the husbands and wives up. And, you know, I talked to the men about husbands and dads and over on the other side, and I don't know what they talk about.

You know, I just hear them laughing and cheering. But I do know, and we've done this for 30 years, that at some point during that talk, Ann shares about her sexual abuse in her past. And all I know is when that session ends, and we have a break before the next session, there's a line of women all the way out into the lobby that needs to talk to her. And it's mostly about that, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's there are a lot of different things, but there is a lot of abuse going on. And we talked earlier, they don't always come out and just say, I'm being abused, right?

But they have a lot of questions that can lead to that's what's actually happening. Darby Strickland is joining us this week to help us think rightly about these things. Darby, welcome back.

Thank you. Darby is a writer, a counselor, a speaker, she is a part of the Christian Counseling and Education Foundation, is involved in private counseling practice. She's also a homeschooling mother and a wife and my favorite part, you should get in a war. Darby's written a book called Is it abuse somehow she wrote this book being a homeschool mom. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. It's, let's see 400 pages.

There's a lot in this book. And I do wonder, the very question of the title of the book is it abuse? Have you had women come to you and say, here's what's going on. And you've smiled and said, oh, sweetheart, that's not abuse.

That's what what you've got going on is just, you just need to buck up and move on. That's marriage. I would say rarely, I've probably had one woman approached me out of the hundreds that I talked to, that it not only was it just not abuse, but she was more angry, and entitled than her husband. We think of that sometimes where a wife will say, my husband is so abusive, he's so controlling. And what she's saying is, I don't get to do what I want.

I go, Well, none of us gets to do what I want. So where's, where's the line in emotional abuse? I want to ask that too, because probably more than any other statement that I hear, it's that I am being emotionally abused. And I don't always know, like, is that emotional abuse? Is that normal? If somebody says that to me, do you think it usually is?

I go with the premise that it is and then I'm going to verify that. So again, I'm just going to slow the person down and I'm going to ask them a question. So maybe they're reporting to me that their husband is ignoring them.

So I have to ask them a series of questions. How long has he been ignoring you? What does that gain him when he ignores you? What effect does that have on you? How does that change your future behavior? How repairs the relationship? When does that happen?

What does that look like? Can you say to your husband, this hurts me? Does he receive your complaint? So you want to find out how a particular behavior functions in the relationship. It could just be that he's really stressed after work and he needs a little downtime. It could be that he's ignoring her to pull back because he's displeased and he's trying to shape her behavior so that she's performing in a way that he desires. I was just thinking about a woman whose husband didn't talk to her for two weeks. And she was begging him, please talk to me.

I don't know what's happening. I need you to talk to me. And finally, he said, I don't want you. I've never wanted to be married to you. And I want a divorce. And so she's like, okay, let's just do that. So then they followed through with that. And then he came back the next day and said, I don't want a divorce.

I don't know why I said that. This has gone on over and over and over where he won't talk to her. He wants a divorce. And then he says, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I really don't want a divorce.

She has no idea what to do. What would you say to that person? I would want to sit with her and say, what is he gaining when he's pulling away from you? And what happens when you're drawn back to him? Is he repenting? Is he saying, I'm sorry, I acknowledge when I'm saying this to you, I see the amount of damage that that does to you. Yes, he does say that. But then it happens again and again and again. Yeah. And so then we look at, the scripture talks about, we know a tree by its fruit.

Difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow. Now, this is a common pattern with abuse and with oppressors. You use the term oppressor as opposed to abuser in your book, but it is common for somebody who is an oppressor or an abuser to feel remorse pretty quickly after they've been abusive and to be sorrowful for it. And then have a period of time where they reformatize their behavior and then they lapse back into it. Is that not a common pattern?

Yes. And I would say it's not that they lapse back into it, it's just they've never really repented of the underlying attitude and entitlement. So actually apology and the contrition and the gifts and the sweet words are all a way of reestablishing control over that person.

And so it's not that so much that it's cyclical, it's that the form of control changes. So when somebody does come back and appears contrite and sorrowful, what should her response to that contrition be? Well, I think the first is for her to do a good job listening and to invite somebody in who's wiser, who can listen more objectively, is the contrition, is the sorrow for themselves, for how their world is being disrupted, for the consequences they're facing, for their own embarrassment. Or are they saying, I'm really panicked that I could do this and be this way.

And I want to get help. Are they naming their specific sins? A lot of them in detail, in concrete saying, this is the way as I'm going to walk out repentance, I'm not, I promise that I'm not going to interrupt you anymore.

That's nice. But then how does that play out? Does he really stop interrupting her? So there's words, and even sometimes the words are very insufficient when we measure them again, what scripture requires for repentance. But then there also has to be fruit to be fruit and it should be sustained long-term fruit. So if there's no fruit, or if you're, again, I'm always putting myself in the this, the role of the friend, you know, a friend has come to me and I'm, I'm looking over at Ann because I'm not going to walk beside some other woman. But if a wife comes to Ann and, you know, saying all the things you're saying, my husband, what Ann said, says these words, then he's repentant and he's sorrowful. Even that evening happens again tomorrow, he's repentant. And so you start to see the actions are not changing.

When do you tell her or encourage her, it's going to be her decision, this ain't changing, girlfriend, you know, it's time to take action. How do you do that? And do you do that? And I think in the church, you feel like we should never say that because that, that feels like we're encouraging divorce, which we aren't, but it can feel that way. So coach us up on that. When do we make that bold little, Hey, I think you need to consider. And I'll add this too, Dave, because this person that I was talking about, I would say, when you say to him, we need to get help, we need counseling and he'll say, yes, okay, we'll do that. But then it never happens.

He'll never go through with that. Is that a sign too? Sure. That somebody is really not committed to changing. Okay. And so those are the types of things I like to say, what are you looking for? So ahead of her receiving the apology, or maybe she's had an apology before, but then the actions didn't happen. I say, let's just brainstorm together.

What, what really pens look like here? What things should you start to see happen? I mean, it's good. We want to see somebody inching along, but not when it's one step forward and two steps back into abuse. So again, I often have to remind women of how they were treated. They don't remember and that's, what's really hard. So I will serve as the timeline and I'll say six months ago, when you had to leave because he was following you around the house and the children were scared and you spent the night at your mom's and he felt like you abandoned him. Oh, right.

So we're hearing the same language that we're hearing then. And and you remember eight months ago and they just don't have the capacity to hold all those horrible truths together. So sometimes it's creating a pattern, but also I'll say, what has to happen for you to do something? What has to happen for you to tell the pastor?

And when do you think you need to make the next step? And next step commonly is going to involve bringing other people. This is Matthew 18. We bring two or three witnesses into the conversation.

In a sense, right? Matthew 18, she's probably already told him dozens of times, right? And ideally we want to bring somebody else in, but it has to be safe. So sometimes we need to extract her. She has to separate and she has to flee and then we have that confrontation. So by doing a safety assessment or working with the victim and finding out her level of safety, we can't just go and say this person's behaving in an oppressive way and we're going to come and confront him because oftentimes her life is made miserable. This is really important. So explain what's going on here and why it's so critical and how you can make sure there's safety before you bring somebody else in.

Yeah. So in my book, in the back of my book or the domestic violence hotline, you can do a safety assessment and there's certain behaviors that you're looking for. If someone's being stalked or strangled, there's been sexual abuse. There's certain things that put women at a higher risk and you want to know what those are. Has the violence been increasing in intensity or frequency? Anytime a woman leaves or is planning to leave, she's in the most danger, right? Because that's what I'm going to amp up my, I can't control, so I'm going to escalate the violence.

Even if I've not been violent before and I think that's something we don't understand. I've counseled one woman in particular. Her husband was extremely controlling and cruel and to the point where she couldn't have $5 in her wallet.

Every trek was pre-made. She was monitored. He was never physically abusive. She started talking about a separation.

Within two weeks she had a gun pointed at her and he had never, so we often think there's this progression. So we really want to work with experts. If we have a friend and we're not sure this person in danger is called the hotline with them.

Invite an expert in. You don't know a lot. What you don't know can really put someone in danger. So please tell me you have success stories. You know, you hear this and I even know some situations in our own life and you're watching it and we've been a part of it and you're not seeing what you hope to see.

She left really hard to do, took the child with her, which is hard to do because she didn't want to take the child away from her dad or his dad and yet the change in the husband's not happening. So I'm sitting here listening like, please tell me there's success. You've seen God show up and do miracles.

God shows up and does miracles. It depends what we define as success. So if I have a woman who has children, female children in her home who are no longer watching her being abused, that's success. And those children now know what a godly husband should look like, that success and that they don't leave the church in the early twenties because of the hypocrisy, that success.

If I see a woman reconnecting with the Lord because she knows her worth in him and she knows who she is, whether or not that marriage survives or not, that's success. Oppressors are hard to change. They have their world the way they want it.

What would propel them to make things different? So it's not likely it can happen. That's a great thing about the Holy Spirit, can do anything at any time. And we root for that. But I just tell the victims what success is, is glorifying God in your life before your children and knowing who you are in Christ. I mean, what a great, great answer.

I mean, you just reframed my mind. I'm sure many others, just what success could look like is in my question. I had this thought success is they come back together and it's just this, and it's just this, you know, happy, happy marriage that, you know, he's transformed. She is, you gave a new definition for success. And I also think, and we've talked about this, but we often think as a man, I'm thinking, well, I'm not, I'm not physically abusive to my wife.

So I'm not that guy. But if you're emotionally and your words are tearing her down, which is more the situation I was referring to, I know that husband thinks I'm not being abusive, even though I call her names and my kids are watching this, never been physical. But he is calling her and cussing her out in front of the kids calling her names. Right. And so I was just thinking, as you were saying that, I think there's husbands listening right now and they're thinking, I'm not that guy. But if you're using words like that to control and demean your wife or your children, you're an abuser.

If you want your own way and they're willing to hurt somebody or shame them for it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's time to get help. And you said oppressors are, it's hard for them to change.

Sure. What drives an oppressor is they have a heart that is entitled. They want things the way they want them. They believe that they're right. They blame shift.

They don't have insight that they're sinners. They make rules that don't apply to them. I've had women that tell me I have to stir my tea a certain way. I have to load the dishwasher a certain way.

I can only wear this hairstyle or there'll just be this, these cruel things happening. And so if you think about, if I get to have as a spouse, I get to have all the latest technology. I get to eat all the foods that I want.

I get, I get to reap all the benefits, but I don't have to do the hard work of maintaining the home. I say oppressors usurp God's position and they really demand to be worship. And when they replace themselves as the center, which everyone has to revolve around, they don't have anything externally referential that they defer to authority wise. They don't have insight that what they believe is wrong. They feel self-righteous. They don't have a need for Christ. They're really in a very dangerous spiritual position.

I mean, I looked at what you wrote in your book, these six beliefs, you sort of said, let me read them. These are scary because I think we can see them in ourselves. Like if we're not careful, we're all entitled, right? But the difference between you and me, I'd like to think I mean an oppressor is that when someone confronts me about my sin, I'm sorrowful, I'm broken. It bothers me.

Maybe they have to confront me more than once, but I have empathy for the other person. I want to be pleasing to the Lord. I'm influenceable. And I know I'm in, I have a need of Jesus. That's big here.

Here they are. And maybe there's one of these, you want to talk or several, a key belief. Number one, it's all about me. Key belief number two, you need to listen only to me. Number three, rules are not for me to follow there to keep me happy. My anger is justified. Other people attack me.

And the last one is, I don't have to appreciate what you do, but I demand that you appreciate what I do. In some ways, we all have that sin been in us, but when it gets out of control, it's dominating, right? You become the oppressor.

Yeah. When it becomes toxic, when it becomes the ruling force, when it becomes a closed system, that's when it becomes oppressive. So you think you and I only have to listen to me, right? We can see that in an abusive argument where someone's constantly interrupted. They're mocked. Their eyes are rolling or an argument hits a certain dead point, but then the oppressor is following the abused woman around the house.

I will be heard. Right. And so that's how those things become toxic and damaging.

Well, it's interesting too, Darby, because as we're talking about this oppressor, it sounds slimy. It's like this Lifetime movie kind of guy, you know? And yet I know that there was a couple that we knew, we were friends with them. He was the nicest guy, like funny. Everybody loved him. He talked about Jesus.

And we would go to bed at night, like that is the nicest guy. And she was coming to my Bible study. She was a little bit quiet. Their marriage was struggling, which we're all like, what? She's amazing.

Who could struggle with this guy? Which made you think it was her problem. Right. Absolutely.

Right. And so one week she came, she had on sunglasses and we're like, what's up? And she said, oh, I have an infection in my eye. It looks super gross.

I don't want anybody to see. I was only in my twenties. And I just, I didn't think about anything more than that.

And later they moved away and it was in the paper that she left him because he was physically abusive to her. I was shocked because I thought him? Nicest guy ever. Can that be typical? That is typical. So right. If oppressors want the world to revolve around them, they want everyone on the outside to think that they are wonderful. So typically they're the best deacon. A man that I know, he'd do every airport run you could.

He'd take kids to Philly games. He just did all these outward works where he was adored on the outside world. But the private life of an oppressor stands in great contrast to the public life. And that's what makes it so difficult for us is, again, we're being asked to believe something that doesn't match up with our experience of this person. And that's why women have a hard time coming forward.

Who would believe me? Right. And then you can take scripture, like First Peter three. Likewise, wives be subject to your own husband so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be one without a word by the conduct of their wives. I've used that scripture a lot for women that are married to men that aren't believers. Oh, you just you just live that out.

You just show them what it looks like to be a believer. And yet I wonder sometimes if women are bearing some of the things that they're going through. Yeah, because if you think about an oppressor, he's about his entitlements.

I want the most comfortable things, an easy life. All my preferences met, all my desires in our marriage met. And if you tell a woman the way to win her husband over is to serve those needs.

Right. His needs are only going to be ever increasing. There's nothing that she can do that he's ever going to be satisfied. Is an oppressor a narcissist? Are all narcissists oppressors?

Are all oppressors narcissists? Good question. I wouldn't go that far.

They're very close cousins. Right. And so there tends to be overlap. What I would say is that there's never an excuse to oppress, whether you have a narcissistic diagnosis or alcoholism. It is behavior driven. And so oftentimes wives will say, well, my husband's narcissistic.

It's a mental illness. I need to care for them. Tend to them.

He can't. And so I just struggle for victims and saying those are behavior choices about who to put in the center of his relationship. It's not the Lord and you're not serving if it's all about you.

And I'm going to punish you. Right. That's more than narcissism. You know, I'm thinking we've talked a little bit about if a woman comes to like Anne and said, you know, you start to sense things. What do we do? What does a guy do? If he thinks or senses that one of his buddies is one of these oppressors? Yeah, two things. Actually, one is you want to enlist your wife to pursue that woman.

You want to just say to her, just just keep pursuing her. You are so wise. You always go somewhere I'm not even thinking. That's good. And then I think it's really helpful. Men often think they shouldn't talk to women who are being oppressed, but I think pastors and elders, once it comes out. Once it comes out, it's so vital for a pastor to say to a victim, I see what's happening to you. It's wrong. And this goes against God's word and against his creation of marriage. And it grieves me and women make so much more progress when their male leaders say to them, I am broken with you and this is not OK. With that said, you're asking how do you pursue these men again?

Is it safe? We don't know. So you might pursue them low level discipleship. Hey, I see your kids, you know, it looks like they're struggling in Sunday school. Build a relationship, go after something else, create a value for that gentleman that you love on him, that you want to see him do well in the Lord. And then hopefully over time, as things come forward, you have nurtured a relationship where you can speak hard things. But if you speak hard things directly, you could be putting her in danger. They might never come back to church.

And so you really want to be thinking about her. Like I said, you're so wise, you know, and my next question was going to be, what should the church do? How can a church be a place that we don't see as much abuse in the church as outside? And you answered it. It's really create a community where you can slowly walk beside people. I'm like speaking your words and seeing if I'm right and also create a culture where things that are hidden in the dark are able to be brought to the light in a beautiful way. It needs to be talked about.

Start there. Well, I just want to add this to any women that are listening to this and their hearts are beating and they're starting to wonder like, this is me, like I'm going through this. I want to remind you that God loves you. God sees you. You are an image bearer. And maybe you feel like you deserve some of this that's going on and you don't. That was never what God intended for you because he loves you.

And Darby, would you say, add anything else to that? I would say one thing is God promises a rescue. Like we often in the church think that Christ came for our sin. We think about God introducing himself to the people in Exodus. He says, I have heard the cries of my people and I have come to deliver you from the hands of your oppressors. His rescue is also when we are being sinned against. Other people sitting against us matters to him. And it moved Christ. And that was his opening words of his ministry.

I have come to free the oppressed. And so, yeah, you probably don't feel heard. Open a psalm that says, I don't feel heard and believe that he is coming with a rescue.

That's good. And there's a part of me that thinks you got to put your hand up in the water because somebody, maybe somebody doesn't see you're drowning. Put your hand up so the people of God can come and be the rescue of God. And I say, go to someone to ask a question if you don't get a good answer. If they're not drawing you out and trying to find more of your story, find somebody else, bring them a book on domestic abuse and ask a good friend. Would you read this so you can help me? I don't know. Do you know a good book on domestic abuse? I'm favorable to one.

This has been very helpful. And I'm imagining, as you said, there are people whose hearts are beating faster. People who are recognizing they're talking about my story.

I don't know what to do with it. I don't know if I feel safe talking to anybody. I just think we need to pray for those people. Would you pray for them? Oh, Father God, I do. I know you have a heart for victims that you see them. Your heart is moved by the pain that they are in and your word is clear. It hates sin. It seeks to drive out sin and it seeks to protect the vulnerable. And for any woman here listening that feels vulnerable, that feels afraid of their spouse, that is confused.

Is this my story? Is afraid to even ask that question. Would you just give them courage to take one step, one step towards somebody who might help, one step towards a book, one step of just of lifting, bringing the light of and hope into their world. And I just ask that you would make them courageous. I have seen how you have rescued many by small acts of courage. And I just ask that these women in faith can do something small, knowing that you are on the move in huge ways for them. I pray these things in Christ's name. Darby, thank you.

Thanks for the conversation. Thanks for the book. We've got copies of Darby's book, Is it Abuse?, in our Family Life Today resource center. You can order the book from us online or you can call 1-800-FL today to get your copy. And let me just suggest, if you know someone who is in a situation like this, maybe get a copy of this book and go through it with them, invite them over for lunch and just a chapter at a time, go through this book together. Again, the title of the book, Is it Abuse?

by Darby Strickland. The subtitle is a biblical guide to identifying domestic abuse and helping victims. Order online at familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-FL today to get your copy of Darby's book.

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Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday when you're going to meet a remarkable woman. Her name is Vanitha Reisner, and Vanitha has lived through a lot of trial, a lot of challenge, and she'll share some of that with us on Monday. But you just you want to tune in to hear the joy in her voice, even with all the circumstances she's lived through.

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