The Deeper Truth About Introverts

You may have found yourself thinking at some point in your life the way Holly Gerth used to think, that even though she was by nature an introvert, she had to force herself to become an extrovert if she really loved Jesus.

I thought that the more people in my life equaled the more I love Jesus and the more I love people. So I literally forced myself to the brink of burnout. I was at a conference. I had done, it had been a year full of traveling.

I think it was my 20th trip. And I did a keynote. And in Sunday morning worship, I could not stop crying. And I felt like God said it's time to go home. And I knew that meant get on the plane, go home and take a nap. But I also knew it meant go home to who I created you to be. I made you an introvert on purpose. And you do not have to be someone you're not to fulfill my purpose for your life. That's his family life today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine.

You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. Are you an introvert? And what exactly does that mean?

And why would God make some people introverts? We're going to explore that topic today with our guest, Holly Gerth. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. You think this is going to work? I mean, it's a national radio program with an introvert? I think it's going to be amazing.

Do you? Yeah, and I think people are going to be excited. We are going to be talking about introversion and what it is and how it affects marriages and parenting and relationships. And we've got Holly Gerth joining us today. Holly, welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here because this is you, right? Yes. You are an introvert.

I'm an introvert. And you know this is going out. Out in the wild. You know this is going out to hundreds of thousands of people. I'm trying not to think about it. But thanks for bringing it up. Yes, thanks for that.

But I mean, it's going to feel somewhat comfortable. There's only a couple of us in the studio. Yes, that's great.

I love that. So I'm just going to focus on all of you. Holly is an author. She is a wife and a mom. She's a counselor. She has a master's of science degree in mental health.

She lives in northwest Arkansas with her husband, Mark, and they have a 27-year-old daughter. And she's written a book about introversion, the powerful purpose of introverts, why the world needs you to be you. You are an introvert. And when did you realize you were an introvert? I actually first heard the word introvert in college at a crew meeting.

I remember exactly where I was. Campus Crusade for Christ. Campus Crusade. And I was sitting cross-legged on this old gray carpet and they had a guest speaker talking about personality types. And they said the word introvert. And it was this huge aha moment for me because I realized not only is there a name for the way I engage with the world, a whole lot of other people engage with the world this way, too, because actually half the population is made up of introverts.

Why was that such a pivotal moment that you remember so clearly? Well, we do live in a more extrovert-centric society. That's not been true throughout history.

It's not even true everywhere in the world. But today that's a little more dominant. And so even though it's about 50-50, introverts can feel like maybe I need to be a little bit different than who I am. And so it's really been a journey to say, no, God made me an introvert on purpose for a purpose. And I believe that introverts and extroverts are actually a complementary pairing that God intentionally put in the world. Now, what do you mean we live in a, what do you call it, extrovert-centric? I mean, it always hasn't been that way because I'm an extrovert.

So I'm like, what are you talking about? I think the world is awesome the way it is, but it hasn't always been that way. Some places, for example, Finland is a very introverted country. A lot of more Asian cultures are a little more introverted. North America tends to lean more extroverted. If you were to say, is this culture an introvert or extrovert? We would say America is probably an extrovert, at least at least time in history. Okay, I need to define the term here because is introversion the same as shyness?

No, it's not. It actually has nothing to do with shyness because shyness is fear-based. An extrovert can be shy, but introversion is actually a particular brain and nervous system wiring. And so it's all about how we process our external environment, how that impacts us. And so that's actually where it comes from. So there's a lot of myths about what it actually means. So you're saying this is biological as opposed to, it's not how we're raised or what our social environment is that shapes this? No, it actually has very little to do with how much we like people. Or how good we are with people.

Yes, exactly. And so some famous introverts that you might not think of, Oprah, Jerry Seinfeld, Joanna Gaines. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Oprah? Oprah, yes.

Okay, so back up. If she's an introvert, I mean, she's a national TV host. She converses easily with people.

She's warm. She gives cars away to people, right? Yep. So what is an introvert? What defines them? Yeah, so an introvert is someone who has a preference for more minimally stimulating environments. Or it's someone who's at their best when they can fully focus.

So on one person, one project, something they're passionate about. So I'll give a quick rundown of the brain science behind that. So introverts and extroverts differ in three primary ways. First, the neurotransmitter, which is a brain chemical that makes us feel best. So extroverts feel best through one called dopamine that works kind of like caffeine. It revs us up, prepares us for action. It's released in our systems when we have a lot coming at us from the outside. So loud room full of people, lots of dopamine going on there. So introverts kind of have a level of dopamine that already feels good to us. It's like we've had our morning cup of coffee. If we have a lot more coming at us, it feels like having an entire pot of coffee. So maybe exciting at first, but eventually exhausting. We feel better through a different neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which I say works more like herbal tea.

It's released when we do things like turn inward, focus fully on one person, a project we're passionate about, those kind of activities instead. So that's one difference. Then we have two divisions of our nervous system that work in similar ways. One revs us up, one's more about relaxing us.

You can guess which goes with which. And then we even use different primary brain pathways for processing. So an extrovert's primary pathway is shorter, faster, more focused on the present. So that's why y'all are usually good at small talk because you can focus on the present and do that quick back and forth that introverts can envy sometimes. And introverts use a longer, more complex brain pathway that takes into account the past, present and future. So we are often able to add context and depth and insight. It also means that we probably need a little bit longer to process. So if you see an introvert pause, that is what's going on. They're using that God-given longer pathway to process what's just been said, and then they're going to be ready to add something to the conversation.

And so that is kind of a quick overview of three main differences. Man, I mean, that's like deep. That is? I mean, I'm listening to you thinking married couples, most of us have no idea the implications of what you just said. I mean, this should be premarital requirement to understand just what you taught between a spouse. Because what happens, you can get married and all of a sudden you're thinking, what is wrong with you? If your spouse isn't processing out loud or if they're pulling away when you want to be going to do something with your friends, you're thinking there's something wrong with you and I'm right. Yeah. And you're saying it has nothing to do with who's right or wrong.

It has nothing to do with that. Or you can be trying to really love someone well and being like, why isn't this working? Because one other difference that comes from the brain and nervous system stuff that we just talked through is extroverts and introverts experience happiness differently.

So because of that dopamine, to extroverts, happiness feels like enthusiasm and excitement. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right?

Can I get some cheers? Yeah. To introverts, happiness feels like calm and contentment. So you can imagine in a marriage where a well-meaning extrovert is trying to get their introvert to be happy. The introvert is actually already happy, but they don't look like it externally, maybe in the same way or vice versa.

You know, where we just sort of even assume. So I say one exercise couples can do is say, what are your happiness synonyms? So when I say happy, tell me some other words that feel like that to you.

And it's interesting because a lot of times extroverts will say those words, excitement, and introverts will say something more like calm. Oh, let's do it. Let's do it with these guys. Well, I'm thinking as you're describing this. Look at that.

Bob's avoiding the question. Do you know what I said? Here's how I processed what you just said.

I'm thinking a year plus ago, I had an invitation to go to Hawaii to speak. I'm thinking. Yes. This is great. I didn't have to pray about it, right?

Yes. We're coming. They said, we'd like to invite you and your wife to come and we'll put you up for a couple of extra days. So I went home and I said, guess what I got an invitation for? We've got we can go to Hawaii.

And Mary Ann was like. The plane ride is so long. You thought she'd be so excited.

I knew enough about her to know happiness for her is home. Happiness is quiet, a book, calm order. So travel is disruptive. It's unusual. It's not unknown.

It's not exploratory. It's like, yeah, I'm out of my comfort zone. So I'm hearing you words that that relate to happiness. Home for Mary Ann.

Calm for Mary Ann. For me, it's adventure and new things and excitement and exploration. So we're in trouble. You know, I think at our best, then we bring out the best in each other. And so your wife probably needs some time to go have an adventure. And sometimes you have lots of adventures and you need some time to catch your breath. And so I think when there's clear communication that that intentional pairing works well, that God has put in place.

So but if you don't have those conversations, it can be years of misunderstanding without even meaning to. Yeah. And I think I represent. I hope I represent some couples that are listening in saying that we're laughing about it.

It is sort of, you know, fun to learn. But there can be real tension in a marriage. I know I've been angry at Ann and she's an extrovert, but she's not as extroverted as me. And so we'll come home. And we've been very busy and been around a lot of people. And let's say we've been gone.

Look at her just interrupt me. In this one circumstance, we were gone two weeks. We haven't been home constantly with people, very extroverted, kind of. I was exhausted. We got home the first night we're home. I'm thinking, OK, I need to get the laundry done. I need to get the house back in order. I need to go get some groceries.

And here's what Dave says. What do you want to do tonight? I'm like, dude, it's the first night we're home. Let's just be here.

But he's like, he was bummed. Like when I said we just got home. I'm honestly thinking I want to be with people that I haven't seen in two weeks, our friends. And when she's like, can we just not see anybody for a couple of days?

And again, she's really extroverted. But I was upset. I was like, oh, bummer. I'm going to watch TV. I'm going to sit here by myself.

I feel like the biggest loser ever because I've disappointed him. So talk to couples that experience that because, I mean, that's attention. I think I'm right. We're people, people. We are in ministry. We're supposed to care for people. See how I make you feel guilty? No, that's what's going through my mind. We're not supposed to pull away.

Let's go. You know, and she's literally like hanging on to that, not literally, but she's hanging on to my belt and her legs are up in the air and here we go. And she's hating it. And I'm mad at her thinking I'm more like Jesus.

The truth finally comes out on radio. Yeah, but what would you say to a couple messed up like us? Thanks for counseling us today.

I'll charge you later. Well, I think first it's helpful to recognize none of us are a hundred percent introvert or extrovert. We're all on a continuum. And so obviously you would probably be a little closer to the introvert side. So even having that conversation, but I think also understanding the difference between isolation and solitude is important. So isolation is living disconnected from God, others and our truest selves. When God said it's not good for man to be alone, that's the kind of language he was using, but it actually has nothing to do with physical space. Some of my most isolated moments have been in a crowd of people where I didn't feel truly known. And so we can think I'm not allowed to withdraw. And that's especially hard for introverts who literally our nervous systems work like nets with small holes and when they get full, we have to have time to process and then we're ready to take more in.

But it also means we're really observant and perceptive and empathetic and things like that. I'm still going back to the nut with the small holes. What do you mean by that? You're not a peanut. You're talking about a nut with a washer? A net. A net with small holes. A net with small holes.

Yes, a net. So we catch everything, but it means that we get to our done point. And so in that case, we need to choose solitude, which is time apart chosen for a specific purpose, like restoration, like creative activity, like renewal after a busy season. And that is actually modeled to us by Jesus that he often did that withdrew from the crowds. And I think solitude is a spiritual discipline that has been present throughout the history of church that we've lost a little bit.

So I actually think for all of us, there's now all these leadership studies saying that solitude is essential and maybe we don't need the same amount, but we all need it. And so I think as a believer, a long time for a long time, I felt shame for needing that because I thought that the more people in my life equal, the more I love Jesus and the more I love people. So I literally forced myself to the brink of burnout. I was at a conference I had done. It had been a year full of traveling.

I think it was my 20th trip and I did a keynote and in Sunday morning worship, I cannot stop crying. And I felt like God said, it's time to go home. And I knew that meant get on the plane, go home and take a nap. But I also knew it meant go home to who I created you to be.

I made you an introvert on purpose and you do not have to be someone you're not to fulfill my purpose for your life. And that was a big aha for me. And so I looked through all of scripture. There's no mandate that has to do with quantity of relationship. It's all about quality. We're literally told one another uses the word one. So I think some of us are called to ministries that involve many. And that is a gift. And we are geared for that if that's what we're called to. But some of us are called to ministries where we pour deeply into a few people.

And that's just as valid and just as valuable. And from a brain science perspective, one more thing real quick. We actually have two other neurotransmitters, oxytocin and vasopresent that regulate how much time with people we need and how much time alone we need.

They operate like hunger and thirst. And so when we are paying attention to them, God has built into us, okay, you need time with people now or you need time on your own now. And probably you and I, Dave, we probably differ in that a lot. You probably have a lot more oxytocin where you need a lot more people time, which fits with the ministry God has given you. I'm a writer who needs to spend hours alone most days of the week to get done what God has asked me to do.

And I'm okay with that. And so I think that's really beautiful that God has built into us how much time we need with people, how much time we need on our own. And just learning to understand that about each other can be powerful. I'm thinking even in my marriage, I often haven't valued that in Ann. If she would come home from the conference like you just talked about and said, I need alone time, it'd be like, why? You don't need alone time.

You and I need to go out rather than going, wow. How do we get to oneness when our priorities and our desires and our oxytocin levels and all of that are so different? When she'd come home and say, I need alone time and you're going, no, I need you to be engaged with me doing this. Now we're at cross purposes and the goal is oneness in marriage. And we do it with our kids too. Great point. I want you to be more like this son or daughter when we're not stepping back and go, no, I want to know you.

Yeah. I think there's a powerful question that we can ask in any relationship that can be a game changer. And it's just, how can I love you well right now? Because we assume that other people need to be loved the way that we do. And so you have the best of intentions when you're trying to get your wife to go out with you, because you're assuming that she needs the same thing as you. Like the intention is good.

It's just that we don't understand. So I think pausing and saying, how can I love you well right now? And then listening to the answer and deciding together what's our way. I heard someone say once that in conflict, you start with an I and an I. And at the end, if it's successful, you end up with a we. And I think that's two becoming one. And so there's the tendency to say the introvert way is right or the extrovert way is right. And I think it's about each couple or each parent, child or coworkers, whoever it is saying, what's our way? There's two different ways here. How do we make one way that's our way? But I think that question can be a simple place to start and to say no shame about the answer, no judgment about the answer.

I'm just going to listen to what this person has to say. Yeah, I remember on our oldest son, CJ, who's an introvert, you know, he's son number one. And we don't know what we're doing. We probably didn't know what we're doing on son number three either. But, you know, I remember what one of our counselors told us about him when he comes home from school. Well, as I'm listening to this, I'm thinking about him because when he was born, you could tell, like, he's very different from us. He was more quiet. Everybody said, oh, he's so shy. It would take him longer to process what he was thinking, but his speech seemed delayed to me. And so here I'm thinking, oh, he's messed up.

That's what I thought. And so I would get bigger and louder and I would try to make him laugh even more. I would take his crib when he was two and I would roll it around his room trying to get him to laugh.

And he did. But I'm thinking, why does it take so much to get him to respond and to be laughing hilariously? And here the whole time I had no idea and I was trying to get him to be like me, extroverted, because I thought that's right.

Yeah. And so by the time he's a teenager, now he comes home from school and instead of talking about his whole day, and I'm trying to ask him a million questions, how did they go? What was happening?

What are you feeling? He would go up into his room and be alone. And I'm thinking he's plotting something devious. You know, I was worried and I'd say to Dave, what is he doing up there? So we ended up seeing a counselor friend and he said, oh, he's an introvert, which we had never even heard of the phrase before in this type of dialogue because he was explaining and defining an introvert, just as you did, Holly, which I never heard of that.

And so when he said, oh, he's just recharging his battery. We were like, what? So it gave us new eyes to see him, appreciate him and call out the greatness in him.

It was life changing, probably way more for him than us because I'm sure we were exhausting to him. Yeah. And I think another thing, too, for this and marriage is the five love languages. Like most of us have learned those. Right. And it matters not just what language that person speaks, but what volume they need it spoken in. Oh, that's good.

I haven't heard that. So for words of affirmation, introvert, like a personal note is probably great. Like pausing and saying, OK, this person is different than I am, even with something like the love languages.

This makes a difference. So I love that you made the effort to go to counseling and to say, tell us about our son. And when you heard that he was different, you received that, you know, and we're open to it. And you're a good counselor.

Yeah. When we sort of came upon that aha moment, it brought life out of him, too, because we were celebrating. Hey, C.J., see you in a half hour. He would go upstairs and he's not building a bomb or anything. And he'd come down and there was life. He was in a small group that we were leading a couple of years ago with premarriage.

And he'd already been married. And he wouldn't say a lot. But I knew any time I want to say, C.J., what are you thinking right now? It would be deep because he's thinking and I would have not honored that until I understood he's wired.

Like you said, his brain is different. And every time, usually toward the end of the meeting, I just say, hey, C.J., what are you thinking right now? And he would have this angle that nobody in the room had even. And you're like, oh, my goodness, what a gem in there. And it would be so easy to miss that in your child or in your spouse if you don't step back and go, I want to appreciate what God made them to be. And it made a big difference for him, too, because we started talking about that a lot more as a teenager.

So, you know, when you grow up in the church world and you're going on these retreats with hundreds of kids. I asked him, how does that feel for you? And he said, it feels good at first and then I feel so overwhelmed.

I don't even know what to do. And so we started coaching him and helping him being able to have a way of escape. He said, I would go back to the cabin, put my headphones on, recharge, be alone.

And he felt guilty about it because sometimes we can make people feel guilty about pulling away. And he said, it just helped me love these retreats in a way I never had before. Yeah, I've heard something similar from so many introverts that especially evangelical Christian culture today is very extroverted. You know, I walked into a cathedral in Europe and I noticed everyone immediately lowered their voices, slow their pace, became more reflective. I was like, everyone just started acting like introverts. And for so many years, the church was a refuge from the noise and the busyness of the culture around us. And I love church today. This is not a criticism. It's just that introverts can feel like I must be doing faith wrong.

I've had so many emails like that. I've had that experience personally, even since the book has come out. That has been the chapter I got the most feedback on is people saying thank you for giving me permission to feel uncomfortable at church sometimes.

Wow. I think it matters that we gather as believers. Of course it does. But it's okay if God has designed us to feel his presence more when we have less external distraction. I feel closest to God when I can turn inward. And if there's a lot of music and noise and lights and people around me, it's just harder to do that. But that has nothing to do with the level of my faith. Again, it just goes back to how God designed me. So he's not saying, Holly, you're in trouble.

He's saying, that's my girl, you know, just like he's looking at, you know, the extra in the middle of that mission trip with all these people killing it and saying, that's my guy. You know, so I think it's just everyone having permission to be who God made them. Well, and I like your question.

How can I love you well? And what does that look like? Yeah. I like that. Yeah, and I really like what you've done in the book with the exercises you've got, the questions that you pose that help us figure out who we are, whether we are introverts or extroverts. In fact, on your website, you've got a 10-question quiz that people can take to help them figure out where they are on the introvert-extrovert scale. Go to our website, familylifetoday.com. There's a link to Holly's website there. There's also information about her book, The Powerful Purpose of Introverts. Again, the website is familylifetoday.com. Let me just say, if one of your kids is an introvert or if you're married to an introvert, get this book and read it to better understand your spouse or your child.

Again, the book is called The Powerful Purpose of Introverts. Go to familylifetoday.com to order or call 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today to order your copy of Holly's book. Speaking of books, earlier this week, we talked with Chap Bettis about our responsibility as disciple-making parents, and Chap's book, which is called The Disciple-Making Parent, is available as a free audiobook. When you go to our website, familylifetoday.com, the information is available there on how you can get a free copy of the audiobook. This book maps out for us a strategy for how we disciple our own children. The most important responsibility we have as parents is guiding children on their spiritual journey. To get a free copy of the book, The Disciple-Making Parent, the audiobook, go to familylifetoday.com.

The information is available there on how you can download your copy, and we hope you enjoy that. And we hope you can join us again tomorrow when we're going to talk about introverts being married to extroverts, and how that works or doesn't work, and what do you do if you're dating and you're attracted to somebody who's different than you. Holly Gerth will join us again tomorrow to talk about that. We hope you can join us as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Anne Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.