Christian Marriage in the NFL

Imagine for a minute you're married to a professional football player, the quarterback on the team, and the team's having a lousy game and everybody in the stands is calling your husband a bum. What would that feel like?

Well, Julie Cousins, the wife of pro quarterback Kirk Cousins, doesn't have to imagine it. I mean, it hurts. It's not like I'm like, oh, whatever. It is a big deal.

It does matter. It hurts my feelings. But it's not our identity. Football is our job. And I realize that we're going to fail. That's life. You're not going to win every game.

You're not going to play perfect. So it's the lens I choose to look at it. And it's such a fun career. It's such a fun lifestyle.

I'm just going to enjoy it while it lasts. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.

I'm Bob Lapine. You'll find us online at familylifetoday.com. We're going to hear today what it's like to live your life with your successes and your failures out in front of everybody right there on the front page. We're also going to hear how God brought Kirk and Julie Cousins together. Pretty remarkable story. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. I think this is going to be, you know, whether a listener is a football person or not. Are we talking football today, Bob? Well, I don't know. But someone's over here salivating because this is the topic that he likes to discuss. Maybe. Listeners are going to love this too.

Yes, they are. Because it's more than football that we're talking about today. Is there anybody that doesn't love football? Everybody loves football. Today they're going to love football because they're going to get a behind the scenes look and sort of some things that most people don't know about football and specifically the NFL because we are in Minneapolis, Minnesota with Kirk and Julie Cousins, who are going to be our guest today.

I don't know that name. Kirk is the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings. Went to the Pro Bowl last year, been in the league nine years.

There's all kinds of great stuff I could say, but he's not only a great quarterback, but a great man and a great marriage. And so we're going to talk sort of behind the scenes, Bob. And why don't you tell listeners about the first time you met? I don't even know if you remember. Do you remember the first time you and Dave met? I believe it was at a Detroit Lions Chapel when I was very young, but maybe I have that wrong. Yeah, you don't remember this.

I doubt it. I was at Hope College. You were 13 years old. Remember this? I'm going to tell you something that I deserve credit for something. What happened is Jason Hansen, our kicker at the time, and Nick Harris was our punter. We were invited over to Hope College to do a little kicking camp just an afternoon.

And our friend, Danny Ellens, basically said, Hey, Dave, you should come along too. And I'm like, what for? He goes, I don't know. You got nothing else to do.

Chaplains don't do anything, right? So I end up over there and they're doing this little kicking thing in the football field at Hope College. Your dad, Don, comes over. Now, I knew Don because he was a consultant for our church when we started Kensington back in the nineties. So Don walks over to me.

I'll never forget this. And he goes, Hey, you're a high school quarterback coach, right? And I was coaching high school football. He played in college.

Yeah. And he said that. He goes, you played college football, right?

You're in the Hall of Fame. He's just going on all this stuff. And I'm like, where is he going with this? And he goes, my kid thinks he's a quarterback.

I go, what are you talking about? Kirk's over here. He thinks he's a quarterback.

He's like 12 or 13. Will you throw the ball with him and tell me, cause I don't know if he's a quarterback or not, but he sure thinks he is. Will you throw the ball? You don't remember this. I vaguely remember that.

So we whipped the ball back and forth. And by the way, he had a better arm at 13 than I did my whole life. And Don, your dad comes over and he goes, so what do you think?

And I said, well, there's a lot more to playing quarterback than throwing a football. I said, is he smart? He goes, Oh my goodness. He's really smart. I go, is he a leader? Oh, he leads the whole house at 13.

I go, well, I can tell you this. If he was in Rochester, Michigan, he'd be my starting quarterback right now at 13. So I think I discovered Kirk. He does take credit for you, Kirk. He takes credit. Kirk remembers everything.

So I don't know how he doesn't remember that. I remember you gave us a chance to sit in the back of a chapel night before a game back in like 2001. I was in middle school and we drove over and that was a thrill for me to watch these guys carry their playbooks and across the hotel and into chapel. And we went to the game the next day and it was just a thrill. And so it's so funny.

Many times I'll go to chapel and see a guest visiting and I'll think back on that, how I was that guest, you know, 17 years ago or whatever it was. Did you have a football in your crib when you were 18 months old or anything like that? Yeah. I was one of those kids. Yeah.

Yeah. I would lay on my back on my bed and just throw it up in the air over and over and over. I always just took the football. I loved all the sports, played all the sports, but football was, uh, was the one that I had the greatest love for. And did you think, I guess at 12 or 13, you were thinking, this is what I want to do.

You know, I'm pretty practical and I had heard the statistics on the odds of getting a college scholarship, let alone playing in the pros, how difficult it was. And so my goal was to be the varsity high school quarterback. That was really what I thought would be a great accomplishment.

And, uh, the Lord had much bigger plans. We should acknowledge that Julie is here with me. I was just going to say, I'm going to introduce my wife here. Uh, Julie's with me. Uh, Julie and I have been married for six years going on seven. Kirk, it's not good when you're hesitating and you're looking up. We have two boys, Cooper and Turner.

Julie is the queen of the house and makes everything go and keeps everything running. So you met and started dating an NFL quarterback, right? Yes. Tell us a little bit about that. So we met eight years ago. I was attending the University of Georgia. Kirk was attending Michigan State and going into our senior years. Kirk is a year older, so he had a fifth year, but I'm going into our last football season and college semester.

We had a family friend say that God put it on her heart to set us up. And I didn't know if she was telling Kirk this, but she was telling me this. And she said, you can just Google him, look him up.

And this was back when, like, Google was just beginning. So I found him on Wikipedia and I saw his picture and just read that he attended Michigan State. And I just thought, I'm in Georgia. He's in Michigan. I, I would love to meet him, but I'm not really sure how that would happen. I've never been to Michigan. I don't really know anyone from there, but I just kind of laughed it off. Like, that'd be fun because she was just telling me how amazing he is.

You know, I just kind of dismissed the idea. And six months later, University of Georgia and Michigan State got matched up in a bowl game in January in Tampa, Florida, which from Atlanta is a very easy drive. My whole family's diehard Georgia Bulldog fans. So we were going to go to the game anyways. Kirk was obviously going to the game and his whole family and the matchmaker figured out a way. She's like, I've got to get down there. She's a teacher in Atlanta. She stayed with Kirk's parents the whole week leading up to the football game.

She was trying to get us in the same place. Kirk, did you know any of this? I didn't know any of it. No, no. This is behind the scenes matchmaking. OK.

Yes. And I'm trying to play it cool, you know, like, OK, if I see him, I see him. Well, it came down to the day of the game and I still hadn't met him. And she said, after the game, just meet us by the team bus and we'll just introduce you real quick. And I'm like, that's so embarrassing, but OK.

So after the game, which was triple overtime, Michigan State beat Georgia. So I'm wearing bright red, got my cowboy boots on, go into the sea of green and just kind of wait. And I see Becky, the matchmaker. She she pulls me into the circle.

And anyways, Kirk came out in his football uniform. And I'm just like, what do I do now? Hello. I try. He has no idea who I am. Yeah. So he's looking at me just like, who is this girl?

Why is she wearing red? And anyways, all I did was just say, hi, I'm Julie. And I know Becky. And did Kirk have a girlfriend at the time? He did. Oh, oh, let's hear about this. Kirk, what happened to the girlfriend?

Where did this go? Kirk's innocent in this whole thing. But I just want to know when you saw the cowboy boots in the red by the bus and she said, hey, I'm Julie. And she's super cute. I forget who my other girlfriend is. Did you forget?

Julie clearly caught my eye. Yep. Six years of marriage and two kids later. So, yes, he he was not unfaithful to his girlfriend or anything. He didn't he didn't even call me or anything until six months later. Oh, wait, six months.

So why? Well, the season ended. I was dating someone else. And I was also training for the draft.

And there was just a lot of uncertainty with where am I going to be living, what's going to be going on. And and it was really right after I was drafted that I I reached out to the day after the draft. You know, we started, you know, casually talk and set up a first date. I flew to Atlanta, rented a car, took her out on a date. And and then we all you'd met was by the bus one time. And six months later, you're flying to Atlanta to take her out somewhere and then try to play it cool.

Like this isn't a big deal at all. I do this all the time. So also, I'm like, I was living with my parents.

I'm in college in the summer. So I'm like, I can't have him come to my parents house on the first date. This is so intense. Like, hello, this is my mom and dad. And so I was house sitting for my aunt. So I had him pick me up over there. And he to this day doesn't understand why I did that. But I wanted to meet everybody because I thought I got one shot at this.

I don't know what I'm going to get back to Atlanta. Of course, my parents. I'd like to meet everybody I can meet in this one trip. It wouldn't be intimidating for me. But she took it as let's not overwhelm him on the first date. But that one five minutes at the bus made quite an impression on you. Well, it certainly started it. It certainly set a spark. We have a funny first date story, too. I don't remember if I've told you this, Ann. But our first date, we hiked Stone Mountain.

If anybody's from the Atlanta area, they would know. It's just a giant stone mountain. And so we hiked it in the middle of June.

It was 90 degrees. Right when we get out of the car and start to hike up the mountain, I think he was 11, an 11 year old boy came up to us and asked if he could join us. So it's like 3 p.m. We start our hike. He's with us the whole time, just interrupting. And you're thinking we're going to get to know each other here.

This is going to be amazing. And you have this 11 year old boy. Yeah, he even had like a squeeze breeze because it was so hot. And so we get to the top. I'm pretty sure we got him like a slushy. Probably.

And maybe a hot dog. He didn't leave. We couldn't walk back down the mountain. He said he had just moved to Atlanta and he hated it.

And his mom left him at home every day to go to work. And so he would just walk to Stone Mountain and wander around. And so we hiked to the top, which is a mile. Then we went down and he's asking us if we've kissed yet. He's asking us what our couple nickname is.

His name, I think, was like Yashin. And so it's getting to dinnertime. Kirk and I had a gift card to Outback Steakhouse from the Outback Bowl. So we were going to leave the Stone Mountain Park and go to a restaurant. Well, he's like still there, like, can I come? He came with us. He did? He went to dinner. We kidnapped a kid. He came to dinner with us. He said he had a cell phone.

So I said, ask your mom. And he's like, she doesn't care. So we went to Outback Steakhouse with Yashin. He was looking at the menu like this is the greatest day of my life.

Looking at like the chocolate cake. And I think he got like a full plate of chicken nuggets. And he got the cake to go so we could go back to the park and watch the laser show on the mountain. Anyways, we hung out with him for eight hours and had to drive him home at dark. And he said, OK, so tomorrow I'm thinking.

We said, no, no, no, we're not coming back. And at one point, I think he said, like, what do you do or something? And Kirk said, I play football. And he said he hated football. And, you know, we just kind of think like, how can we help this kid? So I think Kirk gave him his phone number and just said, like, if you ever need anything, let me know.

And we've never heard from him. Really? But a lot of people have said, like, maybe he was like an angel because he made our first date so obviously memorable. But just kind of like more laid back. Yeah, it helped to have a third wheel, honestly, on a first date when you don't know anybody. And you got it's one thing to just go to dinner and then take them home. But when you literally were going to spend a lot of time together because you came all the way to Atlanta.

It was actually kind of nice to have a third wheel. Julie, you got to see Kirk. He doesn't know this kid. And it could be kind of like, go away, kid.

You bother me. And yet, yes, he's saying, here's my phone number. Yes, that's got to be like that was a big deal to me because at the time I was studying to be a teacher. And I mean, I work with kids all the time and to see how he handled it, because I don't know. I think very few guys would have handled that with the patients. And I just kept looking at him to say, like, what does he think of this?

Is he weirded out? I mean, Kirk, did you think the same thing about Julie? Did you see like, whoa.

Yeah, certainly. I could sense something about her and her heart. And I've always found the eyes are the window to the soul.

And I could just look in Julie's eyes and kind of see that, you know, there was goodness there. Talk about your faith, you guys. In terms of your marriage, this is your life. This is very important to you both.

How did that play a factor into deciding whether you should get married or not? We were very intentional. It's kind of the only way I know how to be. And I was probably too intentional. Right, Julie?

Yes. So we were dating and I felt she was the one and I was ready to go. I didn't really need to keep dating and continue to figure that out. How quick was that? Was it a couple months? We went on our first date in late June. It was probably late August. You know, we knew pretty quickly, but obviously wisdom is to have patience. And so we actually did date for a while and we didn't get married for another, I think maybe a year and a half.

So we took our time. I felt like I could find out so much about him because of the internet. So like I could see him speaking around his campus and doing radio interviews.

And that was like when Twitter was really starting. So I felt like I knew him so well and knew that he was such an amazing man of God. And that was the kind of guy I prayed I could marry. And so not that I was like stalking him, but I already knew like this is the kind of guy I want to be with. Well, I have to tell you, I first heard your name when you were playing at Michigan State, where my mom and dad graduated from Michigan State.

That's outstanding. And I heard about students all over campus wearing t-shirts that said, I agree with Kirk. Tell about how did that get started and what did it feel like to be the guy on campus with everybody has a t-shirt with your name on it?

Well, CREW was pretty strong on campus at Michigan State. They had a tremendous group of students there every week doing weekly meetings. And they came up with the idea because years ago they had done an evangelistic outreach called I Agree with John. And they marketed it sort of vaguely around campuses. I agree with John and then come at this time to this place to learn more.

And it was the Gospel of John is what they were agreeing with. And so they thought, could we do a spin with that in Kirk's senior year? By this time I had played enough where people kind of knew my name and they just said, could we just do an I Agree with Kirk and kind of leave it at that and allow Kirk to kind of fill in what we're agreeing with him on when we got there.

And so I thought it was a cool idea. We probably had over 2,000 students show up on a Thursday night in the fall. And the chance to stand there near the end of my senior year and share the Gospel with 2,000 students, that was a wow. And I remember walking the campus as a freshman redshirting as a player who was not heavily recruited. The projections were not that I was going to be a main contributor on the team. And just walking the campus and saying, Lord, I want to make you famous. I want you to use football as a platform to help make you famous. And so senior year to have that happen was pretty special.

Now, where did you get that perspective as a freshman? The Don. My dad. You call him the Don?

Yeah, I call him the Don. My dad is a pastor in Orlando, loves sports, loves football. And so obviously he's been very involved in my life.

And he was a coach on our teams. And you talk about having a mentor, but I had one right there with my dad. And both my parents, my mom as well, just rooted that in me. And I was just kind of raised to think that way, I guess you could say. Now, you mentioned you didn't finish the story.

You were intentional, maybe too intentional. So I purchased a book that said 101 questions to ask before you get engaged. We have that book. And checked off each page. And I wanted to go through them. And I was actually surprised with how effective it was to just go through and ask those questions. Because we were long distance dating because he was in Washington, D.C. and I was in Georgia. And so every night we would do like three questions. Well, it was fun. But at some times it could feel like an interview, which he doesn't care. He's used to those. Yes. But I sometimes felt like, if I don't answer right, what's he going to think?

Or what kind of answer does he want? And it did allow us to get to know each other. And I think we recommended the book to a friend or two. So we dated long distance my rookie year. And then my second season in Washington, we felt, my parents felt, her parents felt it would be wise for us to have more normal time around each other.

So Julie actually got a teaching job in the Washington area, found a roommate and moved there. Which, without a ring on her finger, was kind of a big deal. But we felt, let's just take the next step in terms of being able to date in a more normal setting. So we dated for that season. And kind of near the back half of that season, we got engaged.

Actually on the Capitol Hill steps, the steps of the Capitol building. And then got married the following summer. How did you know? Well, you know, like I said, you kind of know early, that's certainly more infatuation, you know, than love. I didn't know when I was younger how much God uses your spouse to compliment you. And so, looking back now, you just start to see how she's strong where I'm weak. You know, she's wise where I'm foolish. And the puzzle starts to fit. You know, I find looking back now, you see how the puzzle fits even more than maybe what you realized when you got down on one knee. But that's certainly a blessing to be able to see that. Talk about that a little bit more.

How are you different? How's that complimented each other? Well, obviously, I believe God was our matchmaker. Along with Becky, right?

Yes. Yeah, Becky and God together. It's so cool because I would have never, I mean, I don't know, I probably wouldn't have crossed paths with him.

And God knew. It just makes it even cooler to see our differences and how we can be such a team. He's serious.

I'm laid back. But at the same time, we both are, like, productive and we get things done. But we let each other handle what we're better at. I don't know if that makes sense, but... I'm in a dark place after we lose a football game and she's just fine. And she's smiling her way through it and it really doesn't get to her in a good way. Does that ever annoy you? I guess early on in our marriage, I just needed to learn that that's the way she was. And then you realize that and it's a great blessing.

Julie, how did you do that? Because I've been around wives of NFL athletes for 30 some years. And when husbands have a bad game and then everybody in the media is talking about it and the people in the stands are screaming and yelling how horrible your husband is.

How do you deal with all that? I mean, it hurts. It's not like I'm like, oh, whatever. It is a big deal.

It does matter. It hurts my feelings. But it's not our identity. Football is our job. And I realize that we're going to fail. That's life. You're not going to win every game.

You're not going to play perfect. So it's the lens I choose to look at it. And it's such a fun career. It's such a fun lifestyle. I'm just going to enjoy it while it lasts. And this is year nine.

I still found myself listening to sports talk radio just to kind of I just want to check it out. I'm not. But I can handle it.

Yeah, she's one of the few people that's not going to it's not going to sour her. If you're in a call in guy going, they should get rid of cousins. He's terrible. They actually said that today. And I just have to laugh. I'm just like, you know, I'm it's a compliment that they're talking about my husband on the radio.

But Julie, something you said is big. You said it's our job, not our identity. Kurt, that is hard not to let that become your identity.

How do you do that? Well, you certainly have to remind yourself of it. You know, the spiritual disciplines of memorizing God's word. And when you hear lies from the enemy to be able to repeat truth from the word, you know, and be reminded of the gospel that God loves us and died for us and that he wants a relationship with us.

And it's not performance based. And that's truth with a capital T. So you can say all that, but it's still tough, right? I mean, you still throw interceptions, you lose games. And football matters to me. It's not who I am, but it's certainly a big part of my life. And so it will always hurt to lose. It'll always be something that matters a great deal to me.

But you just always have to check yourself and continue to work through that to make sure your heart and mind are in a healthy place. You know, I don't think the average fan or average spectator understands how hard it is at times. I mean, obviously it's a wonderful job and you're paid well and you have the limelight, but I don't think they understand not just losing, but how tough it is. I remember one time in Detroit and you can imagine Detroit, there was a lot of people upset most years, you know, in 33 seasons. I've joked about this, but I'm the losing chaplain in the NFL.

And I didn't know that was a real thing, but it's true. But the thing about this, we had Joey Harrington back in the day, quarterback, when we were not doing well, first rounder, come to our church and do a night. And it was really interesting because that season we're playing terrible and people would come up to me, the pastor in the lobby and make a Lions joke, you know, because there's all kinds of jokes going around.

And I would look at him, you know, a couple of times I just sort of smile. But at some point I go, you know what? Those aren't really funny to me. This is my family. These are the guys and wives that were, you know, so tell those jokes somewhere else. You don't hear me joking on the stage, blah, blah, blah, but they just keep coming up. Well, Joey comes and he said, first of all, I'm not going to be interviewed. You can interview the other guys, go to the Bible study. I don't go to your Bible study, but I respect you and I'll come be a part of your church. So when we went to the part where I'm going to interview all the players, he goes off to the side and then he starts walking out and sits down like, what's he doing? You know, and he sort of wanted to be a part of it. And so I said to our church that now, I'll never forget. I just looked at the congregation.

I said, how would you understand something? This guy doesn't go out. And he was single at the time. He's like, he doesn't go to a restaurant. People here joke about him. This is his life.

He throws four picks and all you make fun of him. And I know he's paying a million dollars. So you think his life's OK.

It's really hard for him. I look over and he's just looking at me. I could tell he's like, that's OK. It's OK for you to say this. The congregation.

I probably did this for five minutes. I wanted him to understand this is really hard for you. He doesn't go to a restaurant because he doesn't want to be seen. The whole place stands up and gives him a standing ovation.

I think they finally went. Oh, my. Even people, it's like they were repenting, you know, it's like I'm the guy joking, but they saw him.

He starts tearing up. I'll never forget it because it was like, that's what you guys deal with. Sure. Talk about that a little bit, because the average person to understand, we just think, oh, you make a lot of money.

Everybody knows your name. That's all it is. But it isn't the easiest thing in the world, is it? Right.

That's what I think about. I could never do it. I would last 30 seconds on that football field. I would be like, I quit.

I'm done. And so that's also what helps me, you know, not get all wound up. Because, first of all, I'm just proud of the fact that he can do this year in and year out, day after day.

The grind and just to like, especially as the quarterback, to put in the work and then have the confidence to go out there and lead your team. I am like that alone is like, wow. And not just pout and quit and just watching him handle it. I just, I really admire that. Kirk, do you handle it different now, year nine, as you did year one or two?

Certainly. I remember year three, that was our first year of marriage. I got benched, got an opportunity to play, wasn't planning on playing, got an opportunity. It was a very up and down in the way that I played and got benched.

In the middle of the game. And it really hurt. I mean, it really, it was tough. And I was in a tough place there for the rest of that season. That's where you had to ask those questions of, you know, is this mean too much to me?

Is this more of my identity than it should be? And so, you know, had those conversations through the end of that season and through that off season and, you know, and every year since then, it's just been a learning experience. You continue to kind of stack up those failures, those successes and everything in between. And you get to year nine and you have a really bad day, which I've had this year. And you kind of learn to just say, hey, chalk that one up to a tough day at the office and you got to move on. So I do think you grow in it. And that's probably part of anything in life that you've done a bunch. But no, it's a challenge. It's a grind. There's a reason you're paid well is because it is that difficult and it's hard to find people who can do it.

You know, if they could find anybody, the law of supply and demand would mean you wouldn't get paid a whole lot. But I don't think anybody needs to feel sorry for us either. We feel very fortunate. We feel like we're living a dream.

We go to restaurants. You know, just listening to you and thinking back to your freshman year at college where you walked on the campus and said, I want your name to be great. You get drafted in the NFL. That's still your perspective as you go into the league. You're at the top of your profession. And yet you don't let your profession define who you are. I'm just thinking of listeners who are in whatever their work situation or their home situation or whatever. Our circumstances can define us and we can forget what is the big reason why we're here and get distracted by lesser things. And just listening to you, I'm I'm reminded of the fact that we're all here to make his name great. And it's what each one of us ought to be doing wherever God has planted us. So we want to continue the conversation with Kirk and Julie Cousins tomorrow.

But I just want to encourage listeners. I know you guys have read David and Wilson's book Vertical Marriage and maybe even seen the video series. This series really talks about how to have the right perspective, not just on our vocation, but on our marriage.

How we should go vertical, as you guys like to say, in our marriages. We've got copies of Dave and Ann's book in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can order the book from us online at familylifetoday.com or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy of Dave and Ann's book.

Again, the title of the book is Vertical Marriage. And it is both a book and a small group series. And there's information about the small group series on our website as well.

Again, familylifetoday.com is the website or call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions about the book or about the small group series. Let me just mention here that many of you have been asking us in recent days about our plans for this spring, for the Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaways that we host. And of course, it's been a little tricky this year with COVID and with different regulations in different municipalities. We have, I think, about 10 events currently scheduled. We're looking to add additional events, but we're having to work that out in different locations. You can go to our website at familylifetoday.com for information about the events that are currently scheduled.

And we expect that these events are probably going to sell out pretty quickly because we are limiting the capacity in the hotel ballrooms. So if you are interested in attending one of these upcoming events, you can find out more when you go to familylifetoday.com. I just encourage you to sign up now for the event. And if for some reason you can't get to a Weekend to Remember, we've got something we're working on to send your way. We'll have more information about it later this month, but it's a Family Life Dates to Remember date box, everything you need for three great dates together to have some significant conversations.

So stay tuned for more information about the date box and we'll share that with you when we've got more to share. And finally, let me say thank you to those of you who made a year-end contribution for the support of family life today. We are so grateful to those of you who at the end of 2020 made a year-end contribution.

We're still opening mail that came in near the end of the year, and we hope to have a final number next week to know whether we were able to take full advantage of that matching gift. But we just want you to know how thankful we are for your partnership with us and the ministry of the gospel through the work of family life today. We are grateful for you. And we hope you can join us again tomorrow. Kirk and Julie Cousins will be here again. We're going to talk about a number of things.

I want to ask about those people who say that being a Christian is a liability for professional athletes, because it makes you less competitive or too kind or soft. We'll talk about that tomorrow. Hope you can tune in for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.