The Role of a Grandparent

If someone asks you, what does the Bible say about grandparenting? What passage would come to mind?

Josh Mulvihill says there's a familiar passage that a lot of grandparents overlook. Most have heard of Deuteronomy 6, probably the most common passage that we think of with discipleship. Most of us start with verse 4. It actually starts in verse 1 and 2. It says, these commands are for you, your son, and your son's son.

And so, Deuteronomy 6 often thought of as only a parenting passage. It is a grandparenting passage as well. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Anne Wilson.

I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. What is our responsibility as grandparents to help mold, shape, influence future generations? We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today. Thanks for joining us. I don't know if this is your favorite subject, but it's pretty close to one of your favorite subjects.

It's a pretty great subject. Yeah. When is your new grandbaby being born? December. That will be number six.

And you've been on the journey. Your oldest is six years old? Six years old. Yeah. So, you've been... No, our oldest is 34 years old.

Your oldest grandchild. Oh, okay. All right. We've got nine grandkids and our oldest... Quit bragging.

You just won up. I know. He just wanted to talk about his grandkids.

Just demonstrating that I'm older than you are, and that's why we're a little ahead of you on the race on this. But grandparenting is something that I think takes some of us by surprise. Parenting, you have nine months to get ready for.

You read the books. Grandparenting, you hear from your kids they're having a baby, and then the baby arrives, and it never really dawns on you. Oh, we have a job to do here, right?

And it's a fun job, and it's interesting. I don't know if Dave loves that I do this, but when our kids call and say, Hey, could you watch? I drop everything. And the answer is, of course. The answer is never no. Ever. It doesn't matter.

I'm like nobody. The kids and the grandkids matter more than me. One of our sons...

I'm not bitter, though, Bob. One of our sons called us about three weeks ago and said, Hey, can we come over on this weekend and stay with you guys? And we said, Sure. We're looking forward to it. And the next day, Mary Ann was coming to me and saying, Here's what I'm thinking we'll eat while they're here.

She's starting to map out the menu, right? And then about two weeks later, they called and said, Oh, we forgot we've got this going on, and we're not going to be able to come. And there was mild depression at my home with that news. You know what we just did? We made a grandkids room. In your house?

Yes. We took our boys' bedroom. All three boys used to be in one room, and we just transformed it. It's got a little tent in there and Christmas lights hanging. It's pretty amazing. And every time I've been talking to my grandkids recently, as we've been kind of demoing this room, they say, Show us the grandkids room.

They want to see it. I don't know how many of our listeners are even aware of this, but back about five years ago, there was a movement that began, a national grandparenting movement. The first national grandparenting conference happened in 2016. That has continued to happen over the years, and one of the people responsible for making that happen joined us on Family Life Today a few years ago, and he's back with us again today. Josh Mulvihill is here. Josh, welcome. Great to be here.

This time, Josh brought the secret weapon. Woo! Jen is with you.

Thanks for having us. I think it's Jen Penn. Jenny Penny.

Jenny Penny. Josh helps give leadership to the Christian Grandparent Network, and he's written on this subject. In fact, his newest book is called Discipling Your Grandchildren. You guys aren't grandparents. You're too young to be grandparents. Not grandparents. Not yet. In God's grace, you will be grandparents one day, but this passion for you came out of studying the scriptures, right?

Yeah. Family discipleship as a pastor for about 20 years, I saw the impact of the family or the lack of impact of family discipleship and went back to become a better pastor to help train parents in my understanding, and God expanded that vision to include grandparents. And here we are many years later, and God has opened doors and helped us understand the immense value that grandparents have and the significant need that is out there. There's literally probably somewhere around 30 million Christian grandparents in America, and when we started this many years ago, there was very, very few resources. So, saw a need and figured God spoke through a donkey so he can speak through us. And so, yes, we just try to be the messenger and help individuals understand what God's Word says about their role. Was there an aha moment for you in your study of scripture where you went, oh, grandparenting's a big deal? It's not something we all think about. Oh, you know all those verses on grandparenting?

Yeah. You know, most people couldn't even think of one. Well, and that's right, because the word grandparent really isn't used often as a word in scripture, just a couple times. But when we start looking at all the other uses of the word grandparent in scripture, such as children's children and son's son and father's father, when we know the terms and we start to look for them, we go, wow, it is all over God's Word, it's there. And so, the big, you ask kind of what's one of the big passages, for me, my favorite Psalm 78 talks about really the goal that we're trying to see our faith passed on to the next generation. And it really gets at then some of the key ways to do that, some of the how to. God's not silent on either the what or the how to.

And I think we'll hit on both of those here. Jen, you were in the midst of raising toddlers when your husband was starting to focus on grandparenting. Did you feel a little disoriented with what he was discovering? Were you able to engage with kind of what he was writing about and speaking about?

Oh, absolutely. You know, as soon as he started talking about the topic of grandparenting, I was very excited about it. Just having seen our own parents be engaged with our children and what that has looked like.

I know, Amy, you just mentioned, oh, I have a room for my grandkids at my house. And, you know, my mom did that from the minute, you know, she found out we were expecting our first, hands on, excited to disciple the children. And so, yeah, I was very excited to just see what doors God would open and just see how it would impact families, our own family included. Yeah, you mentioned Psalm 78 and, you know, I pulled it right up, but I'm thinking, okay, there's something that jumped off the page for you. So, talk to us about Psalm 78. Yeah, verse 4 says, we will not hide them from their children, but tell to the coming generation.

That's one of the how-tos. The telling is pretty important, gets at our testimony as parents and grandparents. And notice, we're not the point, we're the pointer pointing to something beyond ourselves. You'll hear a lot in grandparent literature all about telling your story and your history, and that's a good thing, nothing wrong with that, but that's not the end goal.

And so, what's the end goal? It goes here further, tell the glorious deeds of the Lord and his might and the wonders he's done and what this really gets at here. Our children, our grandchildren, they're going to, they're going to worship a God, and it's going to be a small G God, a replacement, an idol, if the true God is not embraced by them, if they see some other God as more great and grand and glorious than the true God. And so, one of the things that God has given us is to tell our testimony pointing to who he is, his nature and his character, really to help them grasp who he is. And then he continues, he's established a testimony in Jacob, and he's done so in every grandparent. So, there's a how-to grandparent, if you haven't told your testimony, God wants to use that.

He's appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers. And this is where one of the little antenna goes up for grandfathers and grandparents, that word fathers means forefathers. But there's your second how-to, that we are to teach their children that the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn. And actually, if we keep reading, it goes into four generations and arise and tell them to their children so that they should set their hope in God and not forget the works of God. But keep his commandments. And so, we've got literally four generations there.

That's, I don't know what I said, 160-year vision, 120-year vision. So, it's not just about grandkids, it's about great-grandkids. And we see here the so that tells us why we do all the how-to stuff. It's hope in God, that's salvation language and obedience of God. And this is where the discipleship comes out of this. We see this idea that, I think of the Great Commission when I see this phrase that they should not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments. And so, I make a beeline right to the New Testament there, teach them to obey all I have commanded. And that's where we get discipleship here as parents and grandparents. You keep reading in this psalm and it gets to the forgetfulness of the generations.

The reason for all of this is because we are prone to wander, prone to forget. If grandparents don't do their job, the future generations can become disconnected from the spiritual heritage that has been a part of a family or a part of the grandparents' life. If your first generation is a Christian, you may not be able to talk about your lineage of faith, but you can talk about the foundation of your family's faith in the stake you put in the ground and said, we're going in a different direction. But Bob, this can get kind of tricky because as a grandparent, maybe your faith is super strong and you're excited about it, but your kids aren't on the same page spiritually.

And so, how do we navigate that? Do we need to ask permission if we can talk to our grandkids about God? So, I like to talk about grandparenting with our generation.

So, we're in our 40s. So, if you're not a grandparent and you're listening in, you have a significant role. And part of that is, as a gatekeeper, since God's given grandparents a role, it's not pleasing to the Lord not to allow grandparents to engage in the way that God has designed them. And so, that's where the gatekeeping comes in.

So, adult children, we need to open the gate to grandparents. Obviously, there's a lot of dynamics at play in relationships, so that's a generalization there. But as far as whether it's the grandparents or adult children, whether you get one that's walking with the Lord and one that's not, I think the challenge there is simply one that you've got two unequally yoked groups.

So, obviously, you're going to be on different planes. So, in that case, a lot of it comes down to maintaining and building a relationship. I think the best thing, and this sounds so simplistic, but it is God's answer, is simply in prayer and in changing hearts.

You can't walk in lockstep with somebody who's seeing the world completely different. If we kind of get into the prodigal realm, which this starts moving into, God had a lot of prodigals himself, so it's nothing new to him. The Bible's not silent about that.

And maybe some of our listeners were that themselves and came back home, provides some significant hope. But in that instance, I look at the gospel, and it is both our map and our mirror when there's a prodigal in our life. And we do with our children and our family as God did with the own prodigals he had. And Jesus ate with sinners, we can too. Jesus continued to reach out in compassion and love, even when that wasn't reciprocated. And there's so many principles we could tease out of Scripture and how the gospel impacts relationships like that.

So that's a hard scenario. I think probably about 50 percent of most audiences that listen to us when we ask, how many of you have a prodigal child, prodigal grandchild? At least I've never actually had an audience where less than 50 percent hasn't raised their hand ever in doing this for about 10 years. And so it's common, but I think prayer is the answer. We can go to the Lord and He changes hearts, and we do that to the throne as long as we need to and invite others to join us in that. I find it interesting as you go back to Psalm 78, I mean, much of it, and it's a long psalm, ends in 72 verses, much of after what you read is about the rebellion of Israel. And then at the very end, it talks about David. I mean, you can apply this to a grandparent, granddad, or mom.

It says, with upright heart, he shepherded them and guided them with his skillful hand. And as I read it now with you two sitting here talking about this topic, I'm like, that's my call. As a grandpa, they call me Poppy. That is my call.

I'm with upright heart. I mean, and so it's sort of talking about a prodigal here as well, but whether prodigal or not, it's easy for a grandparent to step back and think, well, it's not my job anymore. It's the parents, and yet he's saying, no, no, no, with upright heart, skillfully guide. And like Bob said, you know, the forgetfulness, we are the connection through the generations to say, let's remember, never forget what God did. We're first generation Christians, and so we had a mission, change the Wilson name, change the Wilson legacy from adultery and alcohol to a different thing. So it's now going through our grandkids, and it's like, that's my job. That's our job.

It's our call. And I think it's so important what you said. Grandparents who have a burden for their grandkids to know Christ, we can become so focused on that that we think every time I talk to them, I've got to be reading Bible verses or I've got to be doing that. To build a relationship with your grandkids and build a strong, solid relationship, that's going to be the bridge that is going to enable those conversations. They're going to be initiating those conversations with you. They get into their teen years, they're going to be saying, so tell me about when you went to college.

Tell me about when you were a little girl. And those are the conversations where you can comfortably, naturally share your testimony and talk about God's work in your life as long as a relationship is solid there. I'm starting to think about some of the relationship markers that we need to be anticipating. I remember talking to a grandfather who said, we have a bar mitzvah event for our grandkids, so when a grandchild turns 13, they get to go on a trip for seven days with grandpa anywhere in the world they want to go. Ooh. Okay, so they pick the city and we'll take them.

I mean, that's a big deal, right? That costs a lot of money, but this grandfather says, if I'm going to invest, that's what I want to invest in. So at age 10, we say start thinking about where you're going to want to go when you turn 13. Start building some anticipation for that. And of course, the grandfather is thinking not just about the rides at Disney World or the Eiffel Tower or wherever he may be going.

He's thinking about seven days of relationship and spiritual deposits and conversations, what he's going to get to have with his grandkids. I'm going to do that. Yeah.

Wonderful idea. But Ann is going to go to her grandkids and say, Venice, you should check out Venice. I've already told Olive, that's our oldest grandchild, our oldest granddaughter, I said, Olive, let's travel the world together someday. And she sits and dreams with me, like, where should we go? So I've already prepped her.

Yeah. I just need to get the money on board with that. But I don't think it has to be around the world. It could be somewhere simple, but somewhere that they would love.

If your budget is a restrictive budget, then you say, let's plan a week together, and you pick the state park we want to go to. And the kids aren't as focused. It doesn't matter as much to them. That's right. So, Josh, walk us through, you map out for us in the book, what are the responsibilities? What are the characteristics of a grandparent who wants to make disciples of his grandkids? So kind of give us that roadmap.

Can you do that? Yeah, most have heard of Deuteronomy 6, probably the most common passage that we think of with discipleship. Most of us start with verse 4.

It actually starts in verse 1 and 2. It says, these commands are for you, your son, and your son's son. And so Deuteronomy 6, often thought of as only a parenting passage. It is a grandparenting passage as well.

But when we think about some of the characteristics, I'm going to read you a couple that really jumped out to me in my study of Scripture. Psalm 128 says, may you see your children's children. And that's just one example of how the Bible talks about the blessing of grandchildren, which is significant simply because our world often sees children in general just not as blessings today, but as burdens.

Not only the cost factor, you've probably seen the financial expense of a child, but also the time factor. And with grandparents, it's often a lifestyle impact as well. And so what we have found is that often grandparents see specifically, grandparents in general or a specific grandchild as a burden. And so one of the conversations we often have with grandparents is regarding the idea of not only are you a blessing to your grandchildren, but your grandchildren are a huge blessing to you.

So that's one. A second characteristic of a disciple-making grandparent is simply understanding the purpose which God has created grandparents for. There's been some studies that have found that grandparents are the second greatest influence in the life of children. And many think most know parents are number one, but will often jump to something else as number two, whether that's peers or— The teacher, the coach, the youth pastor. Yeah, whatever it is, whatever the study is.

Social media. I mean, that's got to be top five influences. So many influences. So you're saying there's a purpose for a grandparent. Absolutely a purpose. God designed it for a purpose, and we see now more than ever the great need that children have to have godly influences in their life, not just parents, but also other ones, whether that's God's built-in grandparents for that.

He's built in the church for that. We have five kids. We want as many godly influences in our kids' lives as possible. And so for Jen and I, our mothers both died. Jen's mom died of brain cancer, mine ALS. They really didn't have a huge relationship with their grandmothers.

Most didn't even know them. And then, of course, that changes your family dynamics when mom steps out. And so we've in a sense had this little taste of what it's like not to have the godly influence to the same degree that God designed it due to death.

And it's a loss for us. You feel the weight of parenting in a greater capacity because grandparents aren't there. And in part, you know, grandparents I think in God's design are there to support and help and share the weight and another voice and another influence. And, you know, that's in the perfect world, right, where there's, you know, a two-parent family, mom and dad, where there's grandparents that love the Lord. And there are those. We find that's about 25 percent of families.

So if you're in that 25, you're listening, you're in the 25 percent category, consider yourself blessed. And if you're not, grandparents then come in oftentimes as the last line of defense or the support figures that then end up bringing in, supplementing what is lost from mom and dad. And part of God's design for that. You know, it's interesting when you say that. I mean, I haven't thought about this in a long time, but I thought of my grandparents. And, you know, mom and dad were divorced when I was seven. I never really, I think I met them one time, my dad's parents, because he was pretty much out of my life. But as I think about my mom's parents, my grandparents, they were safety for me as I look back.

I mean, I was looking at the purpose in my life for them was when I went to Leland and Hallie's house, I felt like it was safe. And, you know, thinking back to the trauma I was going through. And you had a brother die.

Yeah, I had a brother die the same year. And that, I can remember walking in there and I felt like, and I don't think I felt that anywhere in my life. And yet, grandma and grandpa, I wanted to be there all the time.

Now I know why. Yeah, that was sort of God's purpose for them in my life to give me a stability that would be a foundation that my mom wasn't really able to give me, but my grandparents gave me. And I'm sure your mom appreciated that relationship. I'm sure she appreciated that support and that extra voice that was speaking into you and that exhale for her in your grandparents' home. Praise the Lord for that. And she actually ended up moving back to her parents so that they could help her with the kids. Great purpose. And I, you know, you sit here thinking, you know, obviously generations later, did my grandma know that?

Yep, I guarantee she lived on purpose for this little boy. So, I mean, what a call, grandparents, you have. This is where we have to recognize.

Again, it kind of took us by surprise. We'd always thought of grandparenting as that nice chapter that's going to be full of sweet memories. And, you know, I've seen the bumper stickers that say, we're spending our grandkids' inheritance in the back of the RV. Or you see grandparents who will say, if I'd have known grandparenting was this great, I'd have had grandkids first, right? All of those kind of fun, sweet moments. But we have to be intentional and not just sentimental about grandparenting, because the Bible calls us to real intentionality. That's your heartbeat in all of this, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. And it's the heartbeat of the book, Discipling Your Grandchildren, which is a book that we've got in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can go online at familylifetoday.com to get Josh's book, Discipling Your Grandchildren, Great Ideas to Help Them Know, Love, and Serve God. Order online at familylifetoday.com, or call us if you'd like to order by phone, 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number, 1-800-358-6329.

That's 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word TODAY. And let me just say a word to parents about our responsibilities as parents to disciple our kids. We talked this week with Adam Griffin, who has written a book called Family Discipleship, and we think what Adam has outlined is so helpful, so practical for moms and dads to know how to engage with their kids to talk about spiritual issues, to help create spiritual formation in the lives of your kids. We're making Adam's book available this week to anyone who can support the Ministry of Family Life with a donation.

Adam co-wrote this book with Pastor Matt Chandler, and again, the title of the book is Family Discipleship. It's our thank you gift when you go online at familylifetoday.com to make a donation, or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Your donations to Family Life are the lifeblood of this ministry. We are able to reach more people more often thanks to your ongoing support for this ministry, and we're so grateful. So again, go to familylifetoday.com to donate, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and be sure to ask for your copy of the book Family Discipleship as our thank you gift.

We look forward to getting a copy out to you. And we hope you can join us again tomorrow, especially if you're a grandparent. We're going to continue our conversation about discipling grandchildren with Josh and Jen Mulvihill. Hope you can be back with us then as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.